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Author: TriSec    Date: 01/15/2008 11:52:53

I yield the floor today to the Honorable Dr. Martin Luther King. Although he gave the following speech almost 41 years ago, he could just as easily give it today. Only the locations have changed.




Beyond Vietnam -- A Time to Break Silence


...The truth of these words is beyond doubt, but the mission to which they call us is a most difficult one. Even when pressed by the demands of inner truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in time of war. Nor does the human spirit move without great difficulty against all the apathy of conformist thought within one's own bosom and in the surrounding world. Moreover, when the issues at hand seem as perplexed as they often do in the case of this dreadful conflict, we are always on the verge of being mesmerized by uncertainty; but we must move on.

And some of us who have already begun to break the silence of the night have found that the calling to speak is often a vocation of agony, but we must speak. We must speak with all the humility that is appropriate to our limited vision, but we must speak. And we must rejoice as well, for surely this is the first time in our nation's history that a significant number of its religious leaders have chosen to move beyond the prophesying of smooth patriotism to the high grounds of a firm dissent based upon the mandates of conscience and the reading of history. Perhaps a new spirit is rising among us. If it is, let us trace its movements and pray that our own inner being may be sensitive to its guidance, for we are deeply in need of a new way beyond the darkness that seems so close around us.

Over the past two years, as I have moved to break the betrayal of my own silences and to speak from the burnings of my own heart, as I have called for radical departures from the destruction of Vietnam, many persons have questioned me about the wisdom of my path. At the heart of their concerns this query has often loomed large and loud: "Why are you speaking about the war, Dr. King?" "Why are you joining the voices of dissent?" "Peace and civil rights don't mix," they say. "Aren't you hurting the cause of your people," they ask? And when I hear them, though I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment or my calling. Indeed, their questions suggest that they do not know the world in which they live....



...Perhaps the more tragic recognition of reality took place when it became clear to me that the war was doing far more than devastating the hopes of the poor at home. It was sending their sons and their brothers and their husbands to fight and to die in extraordinarily high proportions relative to the rest of the population. We were taking the black young men who had been crippled by our society and sending them eight thousand miles away to guarantee liberties in Southeast Asia which they had not found in southwest Georgia and East Harlem. And so we have been repeatedly faced with the cruel irony of watching Negro and white boys on TV screens as they kill and die together for a nation that has been unable to seat them together in the same schools. And so we watch them in brutal solidarity burning the huts of a poor village, but we realize that they would hardly live on the same block in Chicago. I could not be silent in the face of such cruel manipulation of the poor.

My third reason moves to an even deeper level of awareness, for it grows out of my experience in the ghettoes of the North over the last three years -- especially the last three summers. As I have walked among the desperate, rejected, and angry young men, I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they ask -- and rightly so -- what about Vietnam? They ask if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of the hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent...



...So they go, primarily women and children and the aged. They watch as we poison their water, as we kill a million acres of their crops. They must weep as the bulldozers roar through their areas preparing to destroy the precious trees. They wander into the hospitals with at least twenty casualties from American firepower for one Vietcong-inflicted injury. So far we may have killed a million of them, mostly children. They wander into the towns and see thousands of the children, homeless, without clothes, running in packs on the streets like animals. They see the children degraded by our soldiers as they beg for food. They see the children selling their sisters to our soldiers, soliciting for their mothers.

What do the peasants think as we ally ourselves with the landlords and as we refuse to put any action into our many words concerning land reform? What do they think as we test out our latest weapons on them, just as the Germans tested out new medicine and new tortures in the concentration camps of Europe? Where are the roots of the independent Vietnam we claim to be building? Is it among these voiceless ones?

We have destroyed their two most cherished institutions: the family and the village. We have destroyed their land and their crops. We have cooperated in the crushing of the nation's only noncommunist revolutionary political force, the unified Buddhist Church. We have supported the enemies of the peasants of Saigon. We have corrupted their women and children and killed their men.

Now there is little left to build on, save bitterness. *Soon the only solid physical foundations remaining will be found at our military bases and in the concrete of the concentration camps we call "fortified hamlets." The peasants may well wonder if we plan to build our new Vietnam on such grounds as these. Could we blame them for such thoughts? We must speak for them and raise the questions they cannot raise. These, too, are our brothers....



...At this point I should make it clear that while I have tried in these last few minutes to give a voice to the voiceless in Vietnam and to understand the arguments of those who are called "enemy," I am as deeply concerned about our own troops there as anything else. For it occurs to me that what we are submitting them to in Vietnam is not simply the brutalizing process that goes on in any war where armies face each other and seek to destroy. We are adding cynicism to the process of death, for they must know after a short period there that none of the things we claim to be fighting for are really involved. Before long they must know that their government has sent them into a struggle among Vietnamese, and the more sophisticated surely realize that we are on the side of the wealthy, and the secure, while we create a hell for the poor.

Somehow this madness must cease. We must stop now. I speak as a child of God and brother to the suffering poor of Vietnam. I speak for those whose land is being laid waste, whose homes are being destroyed, whose culture is being subverted. I speak for the poor of America who are paying the double price of smashed hopes at home, and death and corruption in Vietnam. I speak as a citizen of the world, for the world as it stands aghast at the path we have taken. I speak as one who loves America, to the leaders of our own nation: The great initiative in this war is ours; the initiative to stop it must be ours....


...It is a sad fact that because of comfort, complacency, a morbid fear of communism, and our proneness to adjust to injustice, the Western nations that initiated so much of the revolutionary spirit of the modern world have now become the arch antirevolutionaries. This has driven many to feel that only Marxism has a revolutionary spirit. Therefore, communism is a judgment against our failure to make democracy real and follow through on the revolutions that we initiated. Our only hope today lies in our ability to recapture the revolutionary spirit and go out into a sometimes hostile world declaring eternal hostility to poverty, racism, and militarism. With this powerful commitment we shall boldly challenge the status quo and unjust mores, and thereby speed the day when "every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain."

A genuine revolution of values means in the final analysis that our loyalties must become ecumenical rather than sectional. Every nation must now develop an overriding loyalty to mankind as a whole in order to preserve the best in their individual societies.

This call for a worldwide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern beyond one's tribe, race, class, and nation is in reality a call for an all-embracing and unconditional love for all mankind. This oft misunderstood, this oft misinterpreted concept, so readily dismissed by the Nietzsches of the world as a weak and cowardly force, has now become an absolute necessity for the survival of man. When I speak of love I am not speaking of some sentimental and weak response. I am not speaking of that force which is just emotional bosh. I am speaking of that force which all of the great religions have seen as the supreme unifying principle of life. Love is somehow the key that unlocks the door which leads to ultimate reality. This Hindu-Muslim-Christian-Jewish-Buddhist belief about ultimate reality is beautifully summed up in the first epistle of Saint John: "Let us love one another, for love is God. And every one that loveth is born of God and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love." "If we love one another, God dwelleth in us and his love is perfected in us." Let us hope that this spirit will become the order of the day.

We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. The oceans of history are made turbulent by the ever-rising tides of hate. And history is cluttered with the wreckage of nations and individuals that pursued this self-defeating path of hate. As Arnold Toynbee says: "Love is the ultimate force that makes for the saving choice of life and good against the damning choice of death and evil. Therefore the first hope in our inventory must be the hope that love is going to have the last word"



Oh so much more at the link.


 

196 comments (Latest Comment: 01/16/2008 05:44:58 by livingonli)
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Comment by BobR on 01/15/2008 13:34:07
I never get tired of reading (or hearing) MLK...



Thanks, Tri.

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/15/2008 14:06:33
One of the greatest men this country has seen, and certainly one of the greatest speakers of that generation.



Oh, Health insurance companies are killing America.

(More on that later).

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/15/2008 14:10:27
btw: A Las Vegas judge has ruled that democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich must participate in the Tuesday night presidential debate in Las Vegas.









Comment by velveeta jones on 01/15/2008 14:19:02


Kucinich learned of the judge's decision when he was handed a note during an interview with Fox Business Network's Neil Cavuto.



"Holy smokes! I just found out. I have to get off the phone now. I have to make plans to go to Nevada," Kucinich said







Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 14:24:48
Quote by velveeta jones:

Kucinich learned of the judge's decision when he was handed a note during an interview with Fox Business Network's Neil Cavuto.



"Holy smokes! I just found out. I have to get off the phone now. I have to make plans to go to Nevada," Kucinich said









Holy smokes.

:wub2:



Comment by m-hadley on 01/15/2008 14:25:33
Good Morning Everybody,

The students are back at the college where I work, so it has been super busy here. But I did want to share this quote that I added to my blog last night:

"I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become reality. I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word."

Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.



Carry on gang - I love what you are all about!!!





Comment by TriSec on 01/15/2008 14:26:43
Reading Dr. King this morning, I was struck by one thing.



He could have made that speech this morning, word for word.



He did say those words four decades ago.



Has anything really changed?





I've said it before, and with every passing day I grow more and more convinced that America reached it's pinnacle one summer's day in the late 60s...and we won't get back to those heights again unless something dramatic changes.









Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 14:36:54
:clap: Thaks you for today's blog , Tri.



And good morning everyone.

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 14:37:11
Fricksle!



Pffftsss....

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 14:38:13
Quote by m-hadley: Good Morning Everybody,

The students are back at the college where I work, so it has been super busy here. But I did want to share this quote that I added to my blog last night:

"I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become reality. I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word."

Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.



Carry on gang - I love what you are all about!!!



Heya m-h!







Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 14:39:45
I certainly hope momma mentions that Dennis is on the ballot in Michigan.

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 14:44:35
F*ckabee.

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 14:46:18
I really don't get how, after 8 years of president chuckles, people can't see that Huckabee has that SAME FRAT BOY STYLE of reductive, condescending humor.

God, some people really are idiots.





Comment by velveeta jones on 01/15/2008 14:47:37
ATTENTIONS Kucinich supporters:



Dear Kucinich Supporters,

FINALLY, the principle that we are a nation of laws and not of corporate media control has prevailed. And without your support, your phone calls and emails and letters, this issue might never have attracted the national attention it has.

BUT, while Dennis is preparing to go to Nevada - court order in hand - to represent your interests, expect that MSNBC, NBC, its parent company GE, and dozens of other alphabet-soup corporations in the nation will start filing appeals on top of appeals to keep Dennis out of the debate and try to deplete our limited financial resources. Multi-billion corporations don't want Dennis on that stage Tuesday night. And they will do everything; spend anything they need to make sure that his voice - your voice - is not heard. The law is on our side, but the dollars are on theirs.



Defend your rights today. Make a contribution today to the only candidate who is willing to challenge the powerful interests that want to control you.

They will try to outspend us, but, with your help, they won't be able to out-fight us. Please, contribute whatever you can to defend your rights, and ask everyone you know to do the same.

We won today, but tomorrow is another battle.

Strength through Peace

Kucinich Campaign



(I'm sending $75 - come on ya'll.........some of you have jobs!)



Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 14:53:51
I am really starting to tire of the "discussions" that take the route of that caller.

"You shouldn't be for ( fill in the blank ) because they didn't vote for ( fill in the blank. )"

Howz about ya say what is positive about your particular choice and HAVE AN ACTUAL DISCUSSION!!!!!!



Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 14:58:42
Callers for Kucinich. . . don't tell Momma to plug Dennis.

Call the show and say "Hey Momma. Love the show! Michigan get out there and vote for Kucinich. It isn't up to Momma. IT'S UP TO US!!!!:"



Oy....I am in a state today.



Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 15:03:17
Morning!

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/15/2008 15:05:22
Quote by starling310: Callers for Kucinich. . . don't tell Momma to plug Dennis.

Call the show and say "Hey Momma. Love the show! Michigan get out there and vote for Kucinich. It isn't up to Momma. IT'S UP TO US!!!!:"



Oy....I am in a state today.



Totally agree. And if I had the show on to know what's going on.........I'd call in. I do have her on speed dial.



Comment by m-hadley on 01/15/2008 15:06:45
Another Take on the Michigan vote today:I

am swamped at work this morning, so I can't call in, but I do want to add my two cents to the discussion this morning. John McCain scares the bejesus out of me - for all of the reasons that Stephanie has articulated. I think that many, many people out here in the heartland find McCain palatable because of his war experience, his long-term service in the senate, and his moderate stance on immigration. But as you all have pointed out there is an ugly side to McCain - the warmongering, leave 'em in Iraq for eternity while we bomb the bejesus out of Iran (although I've got to agree with Jim on this one - I think that Bush/Cheney will take care of this before they leave office). Remind me, WHY IS IMPEACHMENT OFF THE TABLE??? I recommend that all good Democrats vote for Romney in Michigan today because I believe that Romney is very beatable in November. Just my thoughts.

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 15:11:45
Good morning all.



I really have to go to bed earlier.

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/15/2008 15:12:02
I don't understand this democratic vote for Romney? I've heard this a lot lately. Can Dems vote for a dem and Repthug? If so, then I agree, if not, then pleeeeease vote for Edwards.

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/15/2008 15:13:32
I'll be back. I've now wasted my morning.........watching it snow. But must go do some volunteer work. (At least I'll have a radio).



Peace.

Comment by m-hadley on 01/15/2008 15:18:25
Edwards is not on the ballot in Michigan and any attempt to write in a candidate will void the ballot, so the idea is because the democratic voters' options are so limited and Michigan delegates won't be recognized at the Convention anyway, why not pull a positively rovian trick and mess with the rethuglican field and throw the vote for the weaker candidate (i.e. Romney). Just messing with the GOP!!

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 15:18:28
Quote by velveeta jones: I don't understand this democratic vote for Romney? I've heard this a lot lately. Can Dems vote for a dem and Repthug? If so, then I agree, if not, then pleeeeease vote for Edwards.




I think this is being sold as a strategy, strictly for Michigan, where Edwards is not on the ballot.



Comment by m-hadley on 01/15/2008 15:20:20
I think this is being sold as a strategy, strictly for Michigan, where Edwards is not on the ballot.



Exactly - this is for Michigan ONLY. Now I gotta get back to work ;(

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 15:21:42
: puts megaphone to mouth :



WE REPEAT! MESS WITH THE G.O.P. IN MICHIGAN ONLY.



Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 15:23:27
Take care VJ. At least you can listen to Momma on the radio.



Who wonders what a scary coincidence it was that one year to the date after MLK gave that speech, he was assasinated.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 15:31:32
I feel very strongly about thi Voters should not fuck with the GOP in Michigan. Don't give them anything. Either Vote Dennis or uncommitted.





Until yesterday I did not know he was on the ballot, prior to yesterday, it was actually Kos who was telling people to Vote for Mitt, so we can keep him on the the ballot. That is a very repulican thing to do, and I do not want to be like the republicans.



HARUMPH>



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 15:32:52
AND no, you cannot vote for edwards at all. Michigan throws out write in votes. They do not count at all. A vote for edwards would be like not voting at all.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 15:33:35
Quote by starling310: : puts megaphone to mouth :



WE REPEAT! MESS WITH THE G.O.P. IN MICHIGAN ONLY.





Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 15:34:48
Dennis!

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 15:35:28
VJ's story made the airwaves.

Comment by BobR on 01/15/2008 15:36:11
morning, folks... :coffee:



trudging through the salt mines...

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 15:38:26
Quote by BobR: morning, folks... :coffee:



trudging through the salt mines...
heya BobR... Still trudging thru my computer issues.



Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 15:38:34
Quote by Raine: I feel very strongly about thi Voters should not fuck with the GOP in Michigan. Don't give them anything. Either Vote Dennis or uncommitted.





Until yesterday I did not know he was on the ballot, prior to yesterday, it was actually Kos who was telling people to Vote for Mitt, so we can keep him on the the ballot. That is a very repulican thing to do, and I do not want to be like the republicans.



HARUMPH>



Thom said vote for uncommitted after a caller critiqued Kos' strategy and Randi said vote for Dennis. If I was in Michigan, I would vote for Dennis. I would love a Dennis victory not just because I support him but as a mind-fuck to the establishment and the pundits of the M$M.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 15:41:40
Quote by livingonli:
Quote by Raine: I feel very strongly about thi Voters should not fuck with the GOP in Michigan. Don't give them anything. Either Vote Dennis or uncommitted.





Until yesterday I did not know he was on the ballot, prior to yesterday, it was actually Kos who was telling people to Vote for Mitt, so we can keep him on the the ballot. That is a very repulican thing to do, and I do not want to be like the republicans.



HARUMPH>



Thom said vote for uncommitted after a caller critiqued Kos' strategy and Randi said vote for Dennis. If I was in Michigan, I would vote for Dennis. I would love a Dennis victory not just because I support him but as a mind-fuck to the establishment and the pundits of the M$M.


I didn't like the Kos strategy to begin with, and then when I found out he totally is ignoring Dennis, and really didn't make it known, I got a bit angry.



We must support our own candidates!!

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 15:41:49
Yes he was baby bird.

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 15:43:31
Did Momma's straw hat come from the set of a Merchant-Ivory film?

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 15:45:30
Quote by Raine: I feel very strongly about thi Voters should not fuck with the GOP in Michigan. Don't give them anything. Either Vote Dennis or uncommitted.





Until yesterday I did not know he was on the ballot, prior to yesterday, it was actually Kos who was telling people to Vote for Mitt, so we can keep him on the the ballot. That is a very repulican thing to do, and I do not want to be like the republicans.



HARUMPH>





: joe biden : Yes.



If I was in Michigan, I would vote for Dennis.



My point was if people choose to Mess with 'em. . . it should only be done in Michigan.



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 15:48:36
Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 15:49:48
Quote by starling310:
Quote by Raine: I feel very strongly about thi Voters should not fuck with the GOP in Michigan. Don't give them anything. Either Vote Dennis or uncommitted.





Until yesterday I did not know he was on the ballot, prior to yesterday, it was actually Kos who was telling people to Vote for Mitt, so we can keep him on the the ballot. That is a very repulican thing to do, and I do not want to be like the republicans.



HARUMPH>





: joe biden : Yes.



If I was in Michigan, I would vote for Dennis.



My point was if people choose to Mess with 'em. . . it should only be done in Michigan.

OF course. (you know I was not harumph-ing at you... I am in a bit of a state as well this morning.)







Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 15:51:58
A salute to man boobs;



http://www.thetartan.org/system/asset/image/614/small/IMG_9061.jpg


Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 15:55:04
Good rule of thumb for Pundits, Campaign Advisors, etc. . . .



LEAVE THE JOKES TO THE COMEDIANS. Lest, you always end up with your foot in your mouth.

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 15:55:30
Quote by Raine:
Quote by starling310:
Quote by Raine: I feel very strongly about thi Voters should not fuck with the GOP in Michigan. Don't give them anything. Either Vote Dennis or uncommitted.





Until yesterday I did not know he was on the ballot, prior to yesterday, it was actually Kos who was telling people to Vote for Mitt, so we can keep him on the the ballot. That is a very repulican thing to do, and I do not want to be like the republicans.



HARUMPH>





: joe biden : Yes.



If I was in Michigan, I would vote for Dennis.



My point was if people choose to Mess with 'em. . . it should only be done in Michigan.

OF course. (you know I was not harumph-ing at you... I am in a bit of a state as well this morning.)









You better not be! I will have to hug you.



Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 15:56:52
Oy...this is like saying you don't like Shakespeare around Theater people!



Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 15:57:41
Musin' Musin' Musin'

Keep this bloggie Musin'



Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 15:58:00
I have to agree with Chris on this. It took a Pres to make it a law, to help MLK's dream into reality.

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 16:02:34
Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use

Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use Steroid use . . . .



:thud:

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:03:17


Comment by TriSec on 01/15/2008 16:04:37
Oog.



I'm giving some serious thought to "crossing the line" on Feb 5 and voting against Romney...just for the perverse pleasure of watching him lose his 'home' state.



But that would be bad, right?

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:06:15
Isn't he going to lose in his "home" state anyway?







On another note - finally got the dates of our sales trip (end of March) anyone know anything about Clearwater, Fla?

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 16:10:01
Quote by wickedpam:




Forgive me. . . I am tired of stories about Steroid Use.



Comment by BobR on 01/15/2008 16:10:10
Quote by wickedpam: I have to agree with Chris on this. It took a Pres to make it a law, to help MLK's dream into reality.


How does acknowledging that LBJ signed the bill in any way denegrate the hard work and sacrifices of MLK?

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:10:50
Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:11:12
Ahhh yes, Georgia doing me proud again.

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 16:12:53


Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:13:05
Quote by starling310:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by starling310:
Quote by Raine: I feel very strongly about thi Voters should not fuck with the GOP in Michigan. Don't give them anything. Either Vote Dennis or uncommitted.





Until yesterday I did not know he was on the ballot, prior to yesterday, it was actually Kos who was telling people to Vote for Mitt, so we can keep him on the the ballot. That is a very repulican thing to do, and I do not want to be like the republicans.



HARUMPH>





: joe biden : Yes.



If I was in Michigan, I would vote for Dennis.



My point was if people choose to Mess with 'em. . . it should only be done in Michigan.

OF course. (you know I was not harumph-ing at you... I am in a bit of a state as well this morning.)









You better not be! I will have to hug you.

Can't I get one anyway??



I just am so dissapointed at all the mis information regarding the michigan primary.







Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 16:14:00
Quote by BobR:
Quote by wickedpam: I have to agree with Chris on this. It took a Pres to make it a law, to help MLK's dream into reality.


How does acknowledging that LBJ signed the bill in any way denegrate the hard work and sacrifices of MLK?




It doesn't.

Much Ado about Nothing.



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:14:10
Quote by starling310:
Quote by wickedpam:




Forgive me. . . I am tired of stories about Steroid Use.

I concur.



While this is a issue on some level, I think we have FAR greater problems that we must fix.







Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 16:16:22
Quote by Raine:

You better not be! I will have to hug you.

Can't I get one anyway??



I just am so dissapointed at all the mis information regarding the michigan primary.











Hugs all around!



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:16:27
Quote by wickedpam: Isn't he going to lose in his "home" state anyway?







On another note - finally got the dates of our sales trip (end of March) anyone know anything about Clearwater, Fla?
It's onthe west coast of Florida... OH man... are you going? I know BobR can prolly tell you a little more about it than I .







Comment by TriSec on 01/15/2008 16:17:22
: blubbers incoherently :



But Baseball! and Steroids! and home runs and stuff, and Roger Clemens and....



Ok, I got nuthin'





Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:19:50
She interviewed Hugo on the 7th...



And now Naomi is dating him?!?!?!

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:19:55
Quote by BobR:
Quote by wickedpam: I have to agree with Chris on this. It took a Pres to make it a law, to help MLK's dream into reality.


How does acknowledging that LBJ signed the bill in any way denegrate the hard work and sacrifices of MLK?




Exactly!



Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 16:20:21
We are supposed to have debates and discussions. Arguing about comments that are blown out of proportion is counter productive and a waste of time.



Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:22:10
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam: Isn't he going to lose in his "home" state anyway?







On another note - finally got the dates of our sales trip (end of March) anyone know anything about Clearwater, Fla?
It's onthe west coast of Florida... OH man... are you going? I know BobR can prolly tell you a little more about it than I .











Yep, this year I'm going. It's nto Jamaica or Key West but it will be nice to get away, even if it is a sales trip. Plus I've never been to the Gulf. Hear it's nice warm water, I however will not be swimming in it - there are bigger things with sharp teeth that frequent those waters!



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:22:37
Quote by Raine: She interviewed Hugo on the 7th...



And now Naomi is dating him?!?!?!


Will she now start dating the head of Argentina?

Naomi Campbell dips into current affairs



Supermodel-turned journalist
Naomi Campbell has called Argentina's first elected female president at the government palace and discussed the release of two women held hostage for years by Colombian guerrillas, the state news agency said.




OMG! Super model turned journalist!!!

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:25:37
Cub reporter Raine on the Non Story... (cause it is just so funky) Reports are they have been together for 2 MONTHS!

Comment by BobR on 01/15/2008 16:26:42
Quote by Raine: t's onthe west coast of Florida... OH man... are you going? I know BobR can prolly tell you a little more about it than I .







My grandmother lived in Tarpin Springs, which is near Clearwater (which is near Tampa/St Petersburg). I seem to remember the beaches in Clearwater being kind of rocky, but it's been a LONG time since I've been there.



If you have time, check out the sponge docks in Tarpin Springs and get some Greek food. There's also the Salvador Dali museum in St. Petersburg, which is a doable drive (20-25 miles) from Clearwater if you have the time.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:26:48
Quote by wickedpam:

Yep, this year I'm going. It's nto Jamaica or Key West but it will be nice to get away, even if it is a sales trip. Plus I've never been to the Gulf. Hear it's nice warm water, I however will not be swimming in it - there are bigger things with sharp teeth that frequent those waters!



The water is crystal Clear. Practically no waves.. you shoudl think about dipping your feet in ... it is just beautiful.



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:28:25
I cannot wait to watch the debate tonite...

Comment by BobR on 01/15/2008 16:29:21
Quote by wickedpam:





Yep, this year I'm going. It's nto Jamaica or Key West but it will be nice to get away, even if it is a sales trip. Plus I've never been to the Gulf. Hear it's nice warm water, I however will not be swimming in it - there are bigger things with sharp teeth that frequent those waters!



The water is warm, and in a lot of areas the beaches are like sugar. The water is also a lot clearer than on the Atlantic side, so you can see the tiny fish swimming around, which is very cool.



Do NOT worry about things with teeth - they don't come into the shallow water.



EDIT: Also - no jellyfish

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:30:46
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:

Yep, this year I'm going. It's nto Jamaica or Key West but it will be nice to get away, even if it is a sales trip. Plus I've never been to the Gulf. Hear it's nice warm water, I however will not be swimming in it - there are bigger things with sharp teeth that frequent those waters!



The water is crystal Clear. Practically no waves.. you shoudl think about dipping your feet in ... it is just beautiful.





I go in ankle deep only.



Cause, and the reasons I know this are distubing, you can get attacked by a shark in knee deep water, or less then 3feet of water. It's an irrational fear - but then again aren't all fears.



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:30:59
Guh, that voice... That man sounds strange to me!

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:31:47
Quote by BobR:
Quote by wickedpam:





Yep, this year I'm going. It's nto Jamaica or Key West but it will be nice to get away, even if it is a sales trip. Plus I've never been to the Gulf. Hear it's nice warm water, I however will not be swimming in it - there are bigger things with sharp teeth that frequent those waters!



The water is warm, and in a lot of areas the beaches are like sugar. The water is also a lot clearer than on the Atlantic side, so you can see the tiny fish swimming around, which is very cool.



Do NOT worry about things with teeth - they don't come into the shallow water.



EDIT: Also - no jellyfish






The no Jellyfish is a definatly plus! :D

Comment by BobR on 01/15/2008 16:34:59
Quote by wickedpam:



I go in ankle deep only.



Cause, and the reasons I know this are distubing, you can get attacked by a shark in knee deep water, or less then 3feet of water. It's an irrational fear - but then again aren't all fears.



You have a better chance of getting hurt or killed in a car accident

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 16:35:01
Quote by starling310:
Quote by Raine:

You better not be! I will have to hug you.

Can't I get one anyway??



I just am so dissapointed at all the mis information regarding the michigan primary.











Hugs all around!



I like hugs too.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:36:17
:clown: has been on the right side of this drama imo.

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:38:01
Quote by BobR:
Quote by wickedpam:



I go in ankle deep only.



Cause, and the reasons I know this are distubing, you can get attacked by a shark in knee deep water, or less then 3feet of water. It's an irrational fear - but then again aren't all fears.



You have a better chance of getting hurt or killed in a car accident




True, but long time ago I scared myself when I was out way too far in a little blow up boat. Since then, and alot of Discovery Channel later, I haven't been able to swim in open water again.



Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 16:38:03
The Boondocks took a number of shots at Bob Johnson and BET for the over-reliance on booty videos and when it used to frequently run infomercials on weekends. Sunday afternoons used to be all Infomercials on BET.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:40:16
Oh dear. This does not sound good at all...



Deadly new form of MRSA emerges

A deadly strain of the superbug MRSA which can lead to a flesh-eating form of pneumonia has emerged.



Research suggests it may be more prevalent among the gay community - the gay San Francisco district of Castro appears to have been hardest hit.


Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 16:41:34
Any progress on getting a Goldwater-Miller rally in DC?

Comment by TriSec on 01/15/2008 16:42:32
Comment by TriSec on 01/15/2008 16:44:54
Seen below...



TriSec's most irrational fear:



I'll be standing at an airfield watching a helo spool up to take off, and parts of it will fly off and lop off one or more important body parts.



I don't know why, I always get a little skittish anywhere near a helo trying to take off.





Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:47:30
Quote by livingonli: Any progress on getting a Goldwater-Miller rally in DC?




None that I know about 3WT is a suck station, can't even listen to Randi on the drive home anymore and all they have are right wingers, talking heads and Steph when she's not pre-empted for sports.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:49:31
YAY!!! Black Friend Rodney!

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:49:55
Quote by Raine: YAY!!! Black Friend Rodney!






Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 16:50:17
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by livingonli: Any progress on getting a Goldwater-Miller rally in DC?




None that I know about 3WT is a suck station, can't even listen to Randi on the drive home anymore and all they have are right wingers, talking heads and Steph when she's not pre-empted for sports.


So much for 3WT promising Left talk in the mix. Too bad they couldn't have had a deal that would have kept the show live on 1260 in the morning and have the night airing on 3WT since the signal carries hundreds of miles at night.



If I was in DC, I would be listening mostly to satellite radio.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:52:03
Oh dear... Chris tripped on a flower petal?

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 16:53:24
Quote by livingonli:
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by livingonli: Any progress on getting a Goldwater-Miller rally in DC?




None that I know about 3WT is a suck station, can't even listen to Randi on the drive home anymore and all they have are right wingers, talking heads and Steph when she's not pre-empted for sports.


So much for 3WT promising Left talk in the mix. Too bad they couldn't have had a deal that would have kept the show live on 1260 in the morning and have the night airing on 3WT since the signal carries hundreds of miles at night.



If I was in DC, I would be listening mostly to satellite radio.






Mostly these days I listen to DC 101 or Don and Mike. Can't afford sat radio.



Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 16:53:50
Martin Luther King.....Hillary.......black....white......blah, blah, blah......



:yawn:

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:56:43
Quote by starling310: Martin Luther King.....Hillary.......black....white......blah, blah, blah......



:yawn:
Racsist! Mysogynist!



:P



The whole thing is fake outrage theatre.



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 16:58:35
WHA????????



South Africa Doesn't know what rascism is?!?!?!?!?!?!



HELOOO... Apartheid on Line one for you caller!!!

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 16:59:59
Quote by Raine:
Quote by starling310: Martin Luther King.....Hillary.......black....white......blah, blah, blah......



:yawn:
Racsist! Mysogynist!



:P



The whole thing is fake outrage theatre.





If you can get a hold of the Bill Moyers Journal from Friday.

Shelby Steele talks about the "White Guilt" and how if a white person says ANYTHING about black culture they are deemed racist.

I probably wouldn't agree with him, in general, but on the "race issue" he made some really great common sense points writ large in this "incident."



Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 17:00:17
Quote by Raine: WHA????????



South Africa Doesn't know what rascism is?!?!?!?!?!?!



HELOOO... Apartheid on Line one for you caller!!!


Tell me brother, what's the word.

Tell me brother have you heard

From Johannesburg


Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 17:06:22
Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 17:07:24
AH... my minimum daily Adult Requirement of Sanity...



This feels so good.

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 17:10:29
HA! Thom struggling to not say :"You realize that......you're a bonehead."

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 17:11:14
Jonah Goldberg made worst person in the world because he didn't acknowledge that Mussolini not only coined Facism but that the brownshirts went after Socialists and Leftists so Mussolini could not be a Socialist.

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 17:11:50
This guest's staff is going to get a beating. "You put me on with Thom Hartmann!?!? He has facts!!!!"



Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 17:13:20
All of Goldberg's writings seem to be a futile attempt to prove he is balanced in public discourse while his actions display that he is nothing but a right-wing tool.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 17:15:03
Quote by Raine: AH... my minimum daily Adult Requirement of Sanity...



This feels so good.


I take that back. This guest is :wacko:



He just said *liberal Republicans* is that even possible??? :P

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 17:16:48
OH.



MAH.



GAWD.







This is like listening to people say that a man can have an abortion...

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 17:17:07
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Raine: AH... my minimum daily Adult Requirement of Sanity...



This feels so good.


I take that back. This guest is :wacko:



He just said *liberal Republicans* is that even possible??? :P


The Liberal Republicans were all purged under Ray-Gun. Jacob Javits and Lowell Weicker were Liberal Republicans.

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 17:21:34
He had another interview. I guess that means he couldn't take being challenged on his bullshit.

Comment by shelaghc on 01/15/2008 17:21:37
Quote by Raine: WHA????????



South Africa Doesn't know what rascism is?!?!?!?!?!?!



HELOOO... Apartheid on Line one for you caller!!!






I think that caller said "South America," not South Africa.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 17:23:46
Oh Hell yes Fascism is a word we must use.



We may not want to, but if we are to remain in a reality based society... the answer is yes.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 17:25:12
Quote by shelaghc:
Quote by Raine: WHA????????



South Africa Doesn't know what rascism is?!?!?!?!?!?!



HELOOO... Apartheid on Line one for you caller!!!






I think that caller said "South America," not South Africa.








oopsie?



Raine apologizes profusely for not listening as carefully as she should have...

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 17:27:41
BTW...



HELLOOO !!!!





Comment by shelaghc on 01/15/2008 17:29:46
Hi - I'm just poking my head in right now. Off to yet another farewell lunch with some friends.



I'm gonna have to let my clothes out.....



And I just found out the friend who told me she would help me with the cleanup during the move might not be able to help now. I'm in the process of calling cleaning companies to see what the costs might be.



:-/



Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 17:34:17
Shelagh, sounds like your luck is as bad as mine. Actually, it might be worse.



We all need support.

Comment by shelaghc on 01/15/2008 17:40:15
Heading out now.



Thanks li - I appreciate the hugs.



Comment by BobR on 01/15/2008 17:59:55
Quote by shelaghc:





I think that caller said "South America," not South Africa.


I thought he said South Africa too.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 18:08:10
Liv...



You still get the stephcast? CAn you verify what that caller said?

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 18:09:03
I haven't relistened to the show yet. I will check when it comes down.

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 18:09:53
It's usually 1-2 hours after the show airs before the podcast becomes available.

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 18:35:01
The coffee kiosk in my office has stopped using styrofoam cups!!!!



:banana:



Participation Ribbon please.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 18:43:48
I am pondering... and wondering... Where in the world is dick Cheney?





Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 18:47:18
I am so gonna call the straw poll



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 18:53:53
Quote by starling310: The coffee kiosk in my office has stopped using styrofoam cups!!!!



:banana:



Participation Ribbon please.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/raine1967/ribbon-1.jpg




On a sad side note... I cannot get thru on the line.

Comment by TriSec on 01/15/2008 18:55:35
NaCl + TriSec = :thud:



Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 18:56:33
LEt me add more enthusiasm for Starings Kiosk!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/raine1967/ribbon-1.jpg






Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 18:58:12
Edwards looks like he is takign another landslide.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 19:01:09
Quote by TriSec: NaCl + TriSec = :thud:





http://www.insidesouthwest.com/pictures/saltpile.a.jpg


Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 19:18:31
From Zogby.

Check it out!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/raine1967/Picture1.png




"somebody else" polled better than Rudy in Michigan!!!

Comment by starling310 on 01/15/2008 19:33:36
Quote by Raine: LEt me add more enthusiasm for Starings Kiosk!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/raine1967/ribbon-1.jpg








Thankee.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 19:39:18
This is on my wish list...



http://images.macworld.com/images/news/graphics/131583-mbair_large.jpg




About the MacBook Air.



you can put it in a manilla folder!



(yeah, I know, I would lose it the same way I lose everything... )

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 19:40:51
Nice screenshot, Raine. Rudy is toaste.

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 19:42:03
Undecided also did better than Rudy.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 19:50:51
A little more god spew from huck:

"[Some of my opponents] do not want to change the Constitution, but I believe it's a lot easier to change the constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God, and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards," Huckabee said, referring to the need for a constitutional human life amendment and an amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.



Huckabee often refers to the need to amend the constitution on these grounds, but he has never so specifically called for the Constitution to be brought within "God's standards," which are themselves debated amongst religious scholars. As a closing statement he asked the room of nearly 500 supporters to "pray and then work hard, and in that order," to help him secure a victory in Tuesday's GOP primary.


From MSNBC.



I have been trying to show how dangerous this man is to America over on the MB.



I believe that he is puching a theocracy, and even more so, he is a true dominionist.

if you are so inclined, you can read how he actaully went to a dominionist youth group to campaign.

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 19:59:34
It is becoming more and more that of any of the GOP candidates, Huckabee is the one we do not want to get the nomination especially now that Rudy is fading into the abyss.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 20:03:10
Quote by livingonli: It is becoming more and more that of any of the GOP candidates, Huckabee is the one we do not want to get the nomination especially now that Rudy is fading into the abyss.
I would rather have a candidate who is more easily defeatable.



And that is why I think McCain concerns me.



Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 20:08:14
Quote by Raine:
Quote by livingonli: It is becoming more and more that of any of the GOP candidates, Huckabee is the one we do not want to get the nomination especially now that Rudy is fading into the abyss.
I would rather have a candidate who is more easily defeatable.



And that is why I think McCain concerns me.



So that means we should either hope for flip-flopper Romney or sleepy head Thompson. {Fred_Gump}

Comment by wickedpam on 01/15/2008 20:13:25
What is Randi whining about?

Comment by TriSec on 01/15/2008 21:27:41
G'nite folks. I'm off to class tonight...got a big assignment on the bill, we're working on the changes to "I got Rhythm" in all keys over the next few weeks...



:trumpet:

Comment by BobR on 01/15/2008 21:33:17
Quote by TriSec: G'nite folks. I'm off to class tonight...got a big assignment on the bill, we're working on the changes to "I got Rhythm" in all keys over the next few weeks...



:trumpet:


That's such a weird concept to me - learning songs in different keys. I suppose that's to accomdate singers with different vocal ranges, but I just always learn them in the key they were written.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 21:47:59
wow, Mike gravel sounds sane!

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 22:23:09
Testing Testing

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 22:28:05
Testing again



Please pay no attention to me. I am testing browsers.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 22:31:07
Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 22:39:37
So yes, Bob and I have RSVP'd to an Edwards Event THIS SATURDAY!!!!! :banana: you bet I am gonna angle to get Pictures!!!

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 22:53:58
Another hour before Dennis knows if he can be in the debate, according to what Randui is reporting.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 22:55:35
Oh, I will be making posters for the event to represent 4f. FourFreedoms 4 Edwards?

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 22:57:03
Actually I don't think that this is the democratic parties fault... the states were the ones that moved up the primaries. The states broke the rules.

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 23:02:02
Quote by Raine: So yes, Bob and I have RSVP'd to an Edwards Event THIS SATURDAY!!!!! :banana:



you bet I am gonna angle to get Pictures!!!


Sounds like this is gonna work out better than South Carolina did. I do want to hear the reports while I am in the salt mines in the freezing cold of New York.

Comment by livingonli on 01/15/2008 23:02:39
I was out for a few hours. More errands and had to get medicine.

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/15/2008 23:03:49
Quote by Raine: Another hour before Dennis knows if he can be in the debate, according to what Randui is reporting.





Checking back in.

Yes this is correct and I just saw that I got an email from DK and he wants us to email/call msnbc to keep up the pressure!



[email protected]



201-583-5000





Comment by velveeta jones on 01/15/2008 23:14:19
Update: MSNBC phone is: 212-664-4444.



I called and told them I know they are afraid of Dennis and his message, but that its wrong of you to blacklist him.

Comment by Raine on 01/15/2008 23:28:16
Quote by velveeta jones: Update: MSNBC phone is: 212-664-4444. I called and told them I know they are afraid of Dennis and his message, but that its wrong of you to blacklist him.
I called too! LEft a message saying that "I appreciate you and I love you as my news source of choice on TV, but you should not decide who and who is not viable in our american democratic process! Stop fighting this! Let dennis debate!"

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 00:10:03
Anyone got a word yet on the court verdict?

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 00:51:49
Quote by Raine: This is on my wish list...



http://images.macworld.com/images/news/graphics/131583-mbair_large.jpg




About the MacBook Air.



you can put it in a manilla folder!



(yeah, I know, I would lose it the same way I lose everything... )




Man, I am totally erect! I want one! :drool:

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 00:56:19
Rachel will be on Larry King tonight and possibly on MSNBC after the debate. What a busy woman.



Still no word on the ruling. :kickcan:

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 01:02:10
That Huckabee statement is very creepy indeed.

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 01:05:00
Quote by livingonli: That Huckabee statement is very creepy indeed.




ZOMG! That was totally and massively creepy. :shudder: C'mon, keep saying that stuff, then get the nomination and the general election is a Democratic landslide ala 1964.

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 01:09:26
Charlie Rangel!

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 01:11:50
Grrrr no Dennis.

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 01:12:49
Kuinich is out. Just like when the courts appointed Bush.



F*ckin Frank!

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/16/2008 01:14:25
Oh................mother FUCKER!! I HATE NBC.

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/16/2008 01:15:28
That phone # to complain, again, is: 212-664-4444.



I'm calling them to tell them to F*ck off.

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 01:16:58
Quote by velveeta jones: Oh................mother FUCKER!! I HATE NBC.






Now don't hatin on NBC. It is far more sinister, it is how evil is their parent company, GE. Fuckers!

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 01:20:13
Now Dennis can relax and watch the season premiere of American Idol.



Now that's twisted humor. :D

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/16/2008 01:22:05
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by velveeta jones: Oh................mother FUCKER!! I HATE NBC.






Now don't hatin on NBC. It is far more sinister, it is how evil is their parent company, GE. Fuckers!




Oh, I have NOT forgotten. I am sending them my dog's morning poopy in a ziplock bag. F*ckers.



Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 01:33:49
Jacksonville make the World's Best! :metal:

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 01:34:52
Quote by velveeta jones:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by velveeta jones: Oh................mother FUCKER!! I HATE NBC.






Now don't hatin on NBC. It is far more sinister, it is how evil is their parent company, GE. Fuckers!




Oh, I have NOT forgotten. I am sending them my dog's morning poopy in a ziplock bag. F*ckers.







Ohh me likee!

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 01:48:48
Geeezues! Nora O'Donnell has a lotta teeth

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 01:51:40
Maybe most Democrats stayed home because they felt the primary didn't count.

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 01:56:00
Quote by Mondobubba: Geeezues! Nora O'Donnell has a lotta teeth


You should check out Rosemary Church on CNNI.

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 01:58:09
I just heard the replay of that caller on Sirius. He did say "South America" not South Africa.

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/16/2008 02:01:02
Romney............sheesh.

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 02:04:59
Uncommitted and Kucinich is third. God, people just roll over and go with the machine.



I wonder how many went the Kos route and voted for Romney.

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 02:05:14
Quote by velveeta jones: Romney............sheesh.






Yeah I wanted Loony McReligousnutjob to win. See my comment below

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 02:20:17
Mike Malloy is going off on Loony McHuckster.



Where's Raine? Isn't she joining us for this funfest? Or is she blowing it off because of the Kucinich thing?

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/16/2008 02:39:40
Weel I thinks ahm a goin' bed. :yawn:

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 02:40:10
Ron Paul and Sleepy both finished ahead of Rudy. He is toaste indeed. Ari Fleischer still thinks he's going to pull it off in Florida.

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 03:27:01
Ok I just got back from dinner... So before I go and refresh... I hope y'all are watching this debate and cn give me input!



refreshing.... 10, 9, 8, 7, 6,5, 4,3,2,1 NOW.

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 03:30:43
Quote by livingonli: I just heard the replay of that caller on Sirius. He did say "South America" not South Africa.


Thanks. my bad.





I cannot believe I do not see dennis onthis panel.





How is edwards doing?

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 03:34:07
Quote by livingonli: Mike Malloy is going off on Loony McHuckster.



Where's Raine? Isn't she joining us for this funfest? Or is she blowing it off because of the Kucinich thing?
I went out to dinner with that Boyfriend of mine... :D



We have also hatched a wonderful plan to screw the man... details tomoorow.



I am so disappointed that I do not see Dennis.



Any details anywhere on the ruling?



Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 03:39:40
:grrrrr:



NO... this is not a black brown debate... this is a debate abput the education system in america... and a discussion of the HAve AND have NOTS

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 03:41:32
I just heard it mentioned at the end of Rachel's show and Keith did mention that the Nevada Supreme Court ruled in favor of NBC so they could leave Dennis out.



See my use of the F'in Frank.

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 03:50:46
When she discusses the "war on terra", no matter how she says it Hillary does sound like a Republican to me.

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 03:51:29
Brain just called Hillary out on her fearmogering speach... and she basically embraced it... and now she is busy changing the subject.





BULLSHIT.



She is not backing down, and she is using bushisms.





"Root them out"?!?!?!? She is as bad as them to me at this point.

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 03:54:02
Holy crap. She is using republican talking points.





WORD for WORD.



She sounds like Rudy, or maybe ROMNEY!



:rage:

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 03:58:05
I don't think I could even hold my nose to vote for Hillary if she gets the nod if this is how she's going to run the country.

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 04:00:26
Blech





Hillary said herself she has been working for this race for her entire life, so to say that she decided last NEw years is a bunch of freekin BS.

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 04:03:27
A voting machine Snafu screwed with the uncommitted count in Michigan . So, even this Hillary victory should be questioned. :foil:

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 04:03:49
*grunt*



(to quote Tri)





I am not pleased with Hillary. BArack was kinda Glossy...



From what I saw... Edwards hit a few home runs.

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 04:05:40
That's why this debate needed Dennis, Tweety. He is the voice of conscience.

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 04:48:54
Rachel's finally on the TV.

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 05:08:08
Story about Dennis losing the appeal. This was totally bullshiticulous.

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 05:15:13
REading the article, it seems as tho a corporation decided to use the 1st ammendment. Since when does a corporations right to free speech trump an individuals right to speak? I will be posting more about this on the board tomorrow. I am disgusted.

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 05:17:12
Quote by livingonli: A voting machine Snafu screwed with the uncommitted count in Michigan . So, even this Hillary victory should be questioned. :foil:
Huh? I missed that. can we look for details for the AM?

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 05:20:01
It was indeed. Well, one court could say that Fox News could get away with lying so obviously being fair, accurate, or a watchdog is a job of the newsmedia.



But the debate was televised on the local NBC affiliate in Las Vegas so then the equal time rules would have to apply. They are also re-airing the debate right now on Telemundo (with Spanish translation).

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 05:22:07
Quote by Raine:
Quote by livingonli: A voting machine Snafu screwed with the uncommitted count in Michigan . So, even this Hillary victory should be questioned. :foil:
Huh? I missed that. can we look for details for the AM?



I heard Keith mention it briefly. I'm sure Jim will have more on it in the AM.

Comment by Raine on 01/16/2008 05:25:51
This just caught my ear. *GREEN COLLAR JOBS*... Hillary used that term tonite, I had never heard it before. I suspect we will here it again. GREEN COLLAR JOBS?!?!?!?

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 05:32:15
There's got to be new jobs that pay good money again to restor ethe middle class. Hopefully, the next president will be thinking about it.

Comment by livingonli on 01/16/2008 05:44:58
Even Rachel has noted that Hillary when discussing foreign policy seems to have borrowed from the Bush-Rove playbook. I'm glad we're not the only one who notices these things.

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