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Dr. Strangelove
Author: BobR    Date: 01/23/2008 13:35:29

Who can forget the movie "Dr. Strangelove.."? One crazy general sets the wheels in motion towards MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) with the people in power seemingly unable to cope with the diplomacy required to prevent it. Released in 1964, it brought attention to the insanity that is our nuclear weapons program.

Agreements were put in place with SALT I in 1972, and SALT II in 1979. There have been other lesser dimplomatic achievements since then, but it seemed everyone understood that to fire a single nuclear missile would result in MAD.

Apparently, that zeitgeist never reached certain military leaders in NATO. They have declared that Pre-emptive nuclear strike is a key option:
The west must be ready to resort to a pre-emptive nuclear attack to try to halt the "imminent" spread of nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction, according to a radical manifesto for a new Nato by five of the west's most senior military officers and strategists.

Calling for root-and-branch reform of Nato and a new pact drawing the US, Nato and the European Union together in a "grand strategy" to tackle the challenges of an increasingly brutal world, the former armed forces chiefs from the US, Britain, Germany, France and the Netherlands insist that a "first strike" nuclear option remains an "indispensable instrument" since there is "simply no realistic prospect of a nuclear-free world".

Whether or not the manifesto is taken as policy remains to be seen, but let's not ignore the fact that this is coming from high-level military leaders. Let's also not forget that the Bush Administration refused to take the nuclear option off the table when discussing Iran.

Another reason this is so scary is the flimsy rationale that is often used to initiate a war. Did I say flimsy? How about lies - 935 of them:
A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."

The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

White House spokesman Scott Stanzel did not comment on the merits of the study Tuesday night but reiterated the administration's position that the world community viewed Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein, as a threat.

"The actions taken in 2003 were based on the collective judgment of intelligence agencies around the world," Stanzel said.

The study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to al-Qaida or both.

The rationale that nothing can come off the table to fight this War on Terra™ is disturbing at face value, especially when it can be shown that this really isn't a war on terror:
In sum, the war on terror is a political gambit and myth used to cover over a U.S. projection of power that needed rhetorical help with the disappearance of the Soviet Union and Cold War. It has been successful because U.S. leaders could hide behind the very real 9/11 terrorist attack and pretend that their own wars, wholesale terrorist actions, and enlarged support of a string of countries—many authoritarian and engaged in state terrorism—were somehow linked to that attack and its Al Qaeda authors. But most U.S. military actions abroad since 9/11 have had little or no connection with Al Qaeda; and you cannot war on a method of struggle, especially when you, your allies and clients use those methods as well.

So while the U.S. is engaging in a false war under false pretenses, and a top-level general is promoting nuclear first strikes as a viable military strategy, what is the U.S. doing to keep the nuclear problem from proliferating any worse than it already has?.... um... Selling our nuclear secrets to foreign countries:
Edmonds had told this newspaper that members of the Turkish political and diplomatic community in the US had been actively acquiring nuclear secrets. They often acted as a conduit, she said, for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Pakistan’s spy agency, because they attracted less suspicion.

She claimed corrupt government officials helped the network, and venues such as the American-Turkish Council (ATC) in Washington were used as drop-off points.

The anonymous letter names a high-level government official who was allegedly secretly recorded speaking to an official at the Turkish embassy between August and December 2001.

It claims the government official warned a Turkish member of the network that they should not deal with a company called Brewster Jennings because it was a CIA front company investigating the nuclear black market. The official’s warning came two years before Brewster Jennings was publicly outed when one of its staff, Valerie Plame, was revealed to be a CIA agent in a case that became a cause célèbre in the US.

Hmmm... perhaps Plame's husband Wilson was just an excuse to out her so they could shut down a program that was causing them problems? :foil:

Perhaps we have a few Dr. Strangelove's in our government...

128 comments (Latest Comment: 01/24/2008 03:19:11 by Raine)
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Comment by Will in Chicago on 01/23/2008 13:59:01
FIRST!!



BobR, we do have some people in government who believe in the doctrine of empire. I chose to have a republic, not an empire. Empires tend to collapse, and few of them do so without the home country facing ruin. (The British Empire being an exception, as the doctrine of democracy, the actions of activists in colonized countries, and other events brought about the end of an empire.)

Comment by shelaghc on 01/23/2008 14:03:47
Not surprisingly, I'm going to be late leaving.



The unusual thing is that it could be as much as two to three hours later than I originally planned.



bleaugh



That means I'll get to the new apartment possibly as late as 8:00 or 9:00 PM.



:-/



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:03:47
segundo! *ish* I think I want to go back and cower under the sheets now... Hello Will!

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:07:52
EECh! heya Shelagh, will seems to be around this morning, you should pass on the information about that mechanic to him... (iffin it is still around)

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:08:44
Momma is phoning it in this morning? Oh dear. And now we have TMI. :rofl:

Comment by m-hadley on 01/23/2008 14:23:40
Mornin' Everybody,

So Momma is calling into her own show this morning - what's up with that? Just to let you all know I added a link to the sidebar to my blog last night to Steph & CC's rally in Seattle. Check it out, I was a mad blogger yesterday, I also did a collage of one of my doggies who is a Goldwater/Miller 2008 supporter. All of this fun can be found at http://emailstosms.blogspot.com/ Hope everybody is doing well so far today.

Cheers,

MFaye

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:26:13
:rofl: That was awesome!

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:30:18
Faye, why did you

Patti Smith post get gutted? Isn't that your blog site??

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:34:30
I think Billo has a man crush on John... :P

Comment by m-hadley on 01/23/2008 14:34:30
Raine,

I self-censored it - got afraid of employer's eyes and didn't want to have to take the fifth - I'll drink a fifth, but hope to never have to take the fifth let me know if you'd like to read it , I'll send it along...

How's tricks for you today?



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:35:37
Quote by m-hadley: Raine,

I self-censored it - got afraid of employer's eyes and didn't want to have to take the fifth - I'll drink a fifth, but hope to never have to take the fifth let me know if you'd like to read it , I'll send it along...

How's tricks for you today?

yeah I would love to read it!



you can email it by clicking on the 4F contact Staff button!



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:36:06
btw, reminder everyone, iffin you like the blog today, please digg it?

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:37:30
*sigh* Bush is president Hoover, becuase other than the obvious, he has sucked very badly.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:38:04
The presidents stimulous package is illegal in Alabama.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:41:11
PLEASE tell me, this is not a right wing caller.... :puke:

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 14:43:21
MOrning! :hug:

Comment by TriSec on 01/23/2008 14:45:42
*grunt*



Hi and Bye....there's a conga line of salt trucks waiting at my desk. But it 'taint work today; it's meetings. I think I have enough time for lunch, but that's it.



Never mind getting anything else done. Not even going to leave a window open for temptation.



Yankee-406 heavy to center, going "Stealth"...Over and Out!



:peace:





Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 14:48:39
I love this song!!!

Comment by BobR on 01/23/2008 15:03:49
I've got a meeting with one of the Big Cheeses at some point today - just not sure when... and I have to figure out a strategy for a problem we've been having with a high-dollar customer.



Hoo-haw...

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:03:55
There are some questions regarding Obama and Tony Rezko.



From ABC news, last April.
Rezko's Rezmar Corp. obtained millions in government funds to rehab apartment buildings for the needy.



Court and city documents show 30 of the apartment buildings owned and managed by Rezmar have since been subject to foreclosures, code violations and lawsuits filed by the city, the Chicago Sun-Times reported in its Monday editions. About a third of those 30 buildings were in Obama's Illinois Senate district.



[...]



Rezko became acquainted with Obama in 1990 and has been a key fundraiser for the rising political star. Also a key contributor to Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, Rezko was indicted in October on charges of shaking down investment firms that wanted to do business with the state.



Obama's relationship with Rezko came under scrutiny last year after it was reported that Rezko's wife purchased a lot next door to Obama's new house on Chicago's South Side. Obama then paid Rezko $104,500 to expand the Obama house's yard into part of the lot.



Obama has said the arrangements were ethical and proper, but acknowledged the sale was a "boneheaded" business transaction.
Rezko gave money to the obama campaign while crying poverty regarding making repairs to his building.



I am dismayed tht Obama didn't know this stuff.

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 15:05:39
Quote by BobR: I've got a meeting with one of the Big Cheeses at some point today - just not sure when... and I have to figure out a strategy for a problem we've been having with a high-dollar customer.



Hoo-haw...




Those are always fun.



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:09:05
:rofl: Stephen Colbert!

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:10:16
BOB!!!!

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 15:10:17
BOB mention!

Comment by Will in Chicago on 01/23/2008 15:10:39
Nice shout out for BobR!



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:11:07
:clap: YEah BobR!!!!

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:11:53
So very excited! Our drinking makes headlines at the Stephanie Miller newscast™ !!!

Comment by BobR on 01/23/2008 15:14:16
Naturally, I was in the bathroom and missed it.



Funny thing is - I never sent an email...

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:14:37
Step gingerley step very gingerly...

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:15:17
HEya, if is lurking around, I am worried tht I did something to make you not come out and play, is everything alright?

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:16:18
Quote by BobR: Naturally, I was in the bathroom and missed it.



Funny thing is - I never sent an email...


:foil:

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 15:17:44
Quote by BobR: Naturally, I was in the bathroom and missed it.



Funny thing is - I never sent an email...








Maybe their finally able to read the blog?



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:21:49
Lone SEC Dem leaving Jan 31:

The lone Democrat at the Securities and Exchange Commission has notified the White House that she will depart at the end of the month, leaving the agency short-staffed at a time when the stock markets are volatile and Wall Street banks are posting enormous losses related to the mortgage crisis.

[...]



The SEC is composed of three members from the president's political party and two from the opposing party. Nazareth's resignation, which she had said last year would be coming, follows the departure of the agency's senior Democrat, Roel C. Campos, for a law partnership in September.


===========================================



He never filled the other position, which was vacated last year. What the F8ck? And where is the dow right now? Still tanking, thank you very much.





Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:24:58
Hillary leaving SC in hands of Bill and Chelsea.



I suspect you will be seeing a bump in the polls for Edwards, while clinton's numbers go down.

Comment by BobR on 01/23/2008 15:25:10
I love this song...

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 15:26:39
Quote by Raine: Hillary leaving SC in hands of Bill and Chelsea.



I suspect you will be seeing a bump in the polls for Edwards, while clinton's numbers go down.






I hope so.



Anyone watch him on Letterman last night. Was I the only one who thought it slightly painful?

Comment by BobR on 01/23/2008 15:29:45
Quote by wickedpam:

Anyone watch him on Letterman last night. Was I the only one who thought it slightly painful?


I thought he did great. He came off as real, and amusing. I got the impression that Letterman really liked him.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:30:48
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine: Hillary leaving SC in hands of Bill and Chelsea.



I suspect you will be seeing a bump in the polls for Edwards, while clinton's numbers go down.






I hope so.



Anyone watch him on Letterman last night. Was I the only one who thought it slightly painful?
I didn't think it was too painful. I loved what he said about bill olielly. I think he was nervous, but it really to me brought it hom how serious he is about his campaign... come on, Did you not love when Dave and him mussed each others hair?



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:32:26
LETTERMAN: You know what I've noticed about Bill O'Reilly? And he's a marvelous communicator. But he doesn't really care very much about telling the truth.



EDWARDS: Yeah I've noticed.



LETTERMAN: Very entertaining. And I like when he's on the show. But if you say one thing...



EDWARDS: Most of what he says is full of crap.



LETTERMAN: I like how you think, Senator.





Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 15:34:03
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine: Hillary leaving SC in hands of Bill and Chelsea.



I suspect you will be seeing a bump in the polls for Edwards, while clinton's numbers go down.






I hope so.



Anyone watch him on Letterman last night. Was I the only one who thought it slightly painful?
I didn't think it was too painful. I loved what he said about bill olielly. I think he was nervous, but it really to me brought it hom how serious he is about his campaign... come on, Did you not love when Dave and him mussed each others hair?





I did love that. Maybe it was the nerves I was picking up on they say Dave is one of the toughest shows to do cause he's not the warmest of guys and doesn't fawn all over people unless he likes them.



I loved what Edwards said about being the grown up, that was good. It just seemed painful when Dave was questioning him about Obama and Kerry and Oprah and all that.



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:34:25
Comment by BobR on 01/23/2008 15:37:11


*cough*bullshit*cough*

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 15:39:30
Ya know I love the Big Dog and we've never had a situtation like this before, but Hills does need him to dial it back a bit. If she really wants this they she has to show she can stand on her own feet and not let her husband to the nasty work.

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 15:43:58
Good morning everyone.



I think I was overcome by Big Sleep last night. I missed the BobR shout out.



What next? Rudy will feel he doesn't have to win New York? If he doesn't win his own home state, what chance does his campaign have? Well, I guess then he will get "sick" again and look for a way out.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:48:24
Quote by wickedpam: Ya know I love the Big Dog and we've never had a situtation like this before, but Hills does need him to dial it back a bit. If she really wants this they she has to show she can stand on her own feet and not let her husband to the nasty work.
I totally agree. I am not liking how she is putting herself out there as *the Woman* running for president, and yet, she seems to not be taking responsibility for his actions.



Comment by BobR on 01/23/2008 15:49:54
Quote by livingonli: Good morning everyone.



I think I was overcome by Big Sleep last night. I missed the BobR shout out.



What next? Rudy will feel he doesn't have to win New York? If he doesn't win his own home state, what chance does his campaign have? Well, I guess then he will get "sick" again and look for a way out.


Actually, he's saying he doesn't have to win FL... :P



As to winning his home state, Al Gore didn't win his, and Edwards may not win his...



EDIT: I may have misread your post... sorry...



Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 15:50:15
Quote by livingonli: Good morning everyone.



I think I was overcome by Big Sleep last night. I missed the BobR shout out.



What next? Rudy will feel he doesn't have to win New York? If he doesn't win his own home state, what chance does his campaign have? Well, I guess then he will get "sick" again and look for a way out.






Wonder if Rudy is imagining himself as a King Maker?

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:51:08
Did you all here that Rush Limbaugh said he may not endorse ANY republican?

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:52:05
:rofl:

Comment by m-hadley on 01/23/2008 15:53:18
Raine,

I just sent you the Patti Smith post - hope you enjoy...

Thanks for asking - I am a frustrated writer posing as rad militant librarian =)

Cheers,

MFaye

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:53:25
Edwards Obama... I think that would make me very happy!

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:54:45
Quote by m-hadley: Raine,

I just sent you the Patti Smith post - hope you enjoy...

Thanks for asking - I am a frustrated writer posing as rad militant librarian =)

Cheers,

MFaye
well you know what... you can be rad and militant as you want here!

(iffin you ever want to write a bloggy thing over here, do not be afraid to ask!)



Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 15:55:00
Quote by Raine: Did you all here that Rush Limbaugh said he may not endorse ANY republican?


Sounds like even he can't suck up for this lot. He probably feels at this point that a Democratic president might rejuvante his show so that he gets back the listeners he had during the Clinton years,

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:55:34
Fox news speculated that Oprah's sight is getting bombed by Hillary supporters in a concerted effort. :foil:

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 15:56:45
Quote by livingonli:
Quote by Raine: Did you all here that Rush Limbaugh said he may not endorse ANY republican?


Sounds like even he can't suck up for this lot. He probably feels at this point that a Democratic president might rejuvante his show so that he gets back the listeners he had during the Clinton years,


Well you know, last year, he did say that he was donr carrying the water for repubs...

Comment by BobR on 01/23/2008 15:58:24
Quote by livingonli:

Sounds like even he can't suck up for this lot. He probably feels at this point that a Democratic president might rejuvante his show so that he gets back the listeners he had during the Clinton years,


oooh - you might have a point there

Comment by BobR on 01/23/2008 16:00:47
Quote by m-hadley: Raine,

I just sent you the Patti Smith post - hope you enjoy...

Thanks for asking - I am a frustrated writer posing as rad militant librarian =)

Cheers,

MFaye


wow - excellent. I feel bad you felt like something you did 30 years ago would be a problem to your current employer. Of course, I also feel bad that I can't write that well..



Just curious - when you wrote "ambidextrous", did you mean "androgynous"?

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 16:01:05
Quote by m-hadley: Raine,

I just sent you the Patti Smith post - hope you enjoy...

Thanks for asking - I am a frustrated writer posing as rad militant librarian =)

Cheers,

MFaye
Faye, that is just wonderful. I would like it very much if you would think about posting it here. No fifth would have to be taken... ;)



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 16:14:08
Whaaa????????? Keith shot up heroin? :P

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 16:19:11
Quote by Raine: Whaaa????????? Keith shot up heroin? :P


I'm shocked! Shocked! :P



With all the shit he done, how is he still alive? A former co-worker had a theory years ago why it seems that only British rock stars seem to be able to consume vast quantity of drugs while American rock stars are the ones who die from overdoses.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 16:28:10
Why is it when anyone questions Obama, Momma says that no one is perfect? That is not the issue, here, is it?



Look I like Barack, but I want to be able to question him.

Comment by m-hadley on 01/23/2008 16:32:33
BobR,

You say androgynous I say ambidextrous - let's call the whole thing off - just joking. Actually I think that androgynous does fit better there, do you mind if I go ahead and make the change? Great feedback from you guys - have I mentioned that I like it here?

Go ahead and post it if you think anybody else might get a kick out of it.. Thanks for the comments - you all rock =)

Cheers,

MFaye

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 16:36:28
Hillary is the most Republican of the candidates so I would figure that she would be most likely to use Republican tactics to win the race.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 16:38:12
I would not assume that McCain is the annointed one...



Fred is out of the race, and his campagn mangers will be looking for work... I predict that Mary MAtalin may very well head over to the Romney camp.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 16:40:25
oooh caller with a decent point.



Altho I never want our side to be like them...

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 16:54:55
Good I want EVERYONE to vote for Romney...

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 16:56:16
Okay what that caller said was offensive.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 16:58:58
Sheesh, yes I agree, mala.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 17:04:19
Guh... I sorta forgot that Monday is the SOTU Address...

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 17:10:49
Could DeMint be a Dominionist like Huckabee?

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/23/2008 17:11:43
Morning, er...........afternoon. I am trying to stream, but having technical difficulty.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 17:12:47
:banana: the edwards campaign just called me... I am now a phone banker!!! :banana:

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/23/2008 17:14:27
Quote by Raine: Guh... I sorta forgot that Monday is the SOTU Address...


Popcorn time! Ppffffttth.

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 17:15:39
Maybe poverty is up because of the cuts in social programs under the CONservative administrations?

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/23/2008 17:20:03
btw: todays snacktime cheese will be:

Campo de Montalban. A semi-hard spanish cheese that is a blend of goat, sheep and cow's milk.



Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 17:27:38
Four phone calls made, 4 no answers...

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 17:27:48
Anyone else listening to this asshat on Thom Hartmann?

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 17:29:07
Mike Malloy and Scott Ritter together? Why can't that be in New York.

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/23/2008 17:33:04
Quote by livingonli: Anyone else listening to this asshat on Thom Hartmann?


can't seem to stream him. :sad:

But, still refuse to listen to Ed Shultz blowhard. (He annoys me).

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 17:58:32
Quote by livingonli: Anyone else listening to this asshat on Thom Hartmann?
Sorry, I was making phone calls.



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 17:59:13
Quote by velveeta jones:
Quote by livingonli: Anyone else listening to this asshat on Thom Hartmann?


can't seem to stream him. :sad:

But, still refuse to listen to Ed Shultz blowhard. (He annoys me).
I cannot stand Ed Shultz.



Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 18:10:33


that is how I am feeling.

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 18:15:46
I feel like that a lot too.

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 18:17:45
Robert Parry is ripping on the Reagan legacy right now on Hartmann.

Comment by velveeta jones on 01/23/2008 18:18:33
Did ya'll see the doc "Shut up and Sing"? Great Dixie Chicks movie and scary as to how violent it got!!

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 18:22:20
I'm not ready to make nice either.

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 18:29:21
Quote by velveeta jones: Did ya'll see the doc "Shut up and Sing"? Great Dixie Chicks movie and scary as to how violent it got!!






Haven't seen it yet but I want too. I love the Dixie Chicks saw them when they did the George Strait tour with Tim McGraw and JoDee Mesina.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 18:37:28


Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 18:42:17
HUH? When did Thom ever say those things?

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 18:43:22
Quote by Raine: HUH? When did Thom ever say those things?


Maybe some callers but I don't recall Thom ever saying these things.

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 18:43:57
Mala, is AAP down? I'm not getting a connection.

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 18:46:08
Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 19:03:34
Listening to Momma's first hour: Sounds like you don't want to be a passenger with her.

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 19:10:28
On the Stephcast, Momma's curse word was left in.

Comment by TriSec on 01/23/2008 19:16:37
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/middle/0/4/6/1306640.jpg








:peace:



Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 19:22:18
I just re-registered at UNN. Boy, I'm not in the fastest mode these days.

Comment by TriSec on 01/23/2008 19:34:46
Ummm...so if the Dow is down like 100 points every day this year, that's bad, right?



The 52-week high (Mid-Nov, 2007) is 14,280...currently trading today at 11,957.



That's off 2323 points, which if I did my math right is 16%?



So, is it a recession or not?



Compare to 1929:
On Black Monday, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 38 points to 260, a drop of 12.8%. The deluge of selling overwhelmed the ticker tape system that normally gave investors the current prices of their shares. Telephone lines and telegraphs were clogged and were unable to cope. This information vacuum only led to more fear and panic. The technology of the New Era, much celebrated by investors previously, now served to deepen their suffering.



Black Tuesday was a day of chaos. Forced to liquidate their stocks because of margin calls, overextended investors flooded the exchange with sell orders. The glamour stocks of the age saw their values plummet. Across the two days, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 23%.



By the end of the week of November 11, the index stood at 228, a cumulative drop of 40 percent from the September high. The markets rallied in succeeding months but it would be a false recovery that led unsuspecting investors into the worst economic crisis of modern times.




Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 19:46:26
I just heard the BobR shout out.

Comment by wickedpam on 01/23/2008 19:53:39
Quote by livingonli: Mala, is AAP down? I'm not getting a connection.




Looks like it.



Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 20:04:24
Time to head off to the salt mine.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 20:09:29
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by livingonli: Mala, is AAP down? I'm not getting a connection.




Looks like it.

Both the blog and the board? Man I hate when that happens. People are more than welcome to come over here while the issues get cleared up. :peace:

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 21:24:21
Judge says NYC cannot use secret arguments in the ACLU's case against NYCPD for actiosn taken agaist protestors during the 2004 convention.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 21:28:27
Listening to Randi... she is disgusted with Hillary and Obama, and said that if she had to vote today, she would vote for edwards.

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 21:39:14
Mike Malloy despises Hillary and after Obama made that Reagan comment he's not too fond of him either. He prefers Kucinich but is supporting Edwards by default since the media is ignoring Kuxinich and only Edwards has a shot and is at least saying some progressive things.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 21:42:27
Just out of curiousity, When Randi is scolding Mom and Dad for bickering, why is she assuming that means that the Repubs will win?



Has she not seen the many polls that have shown that Edwards beats ANY republican candidate?

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 21:46:30
Good! Vote for John! That is a worthy vote!

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 21:58:34
Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 22:03:21
OMG, Mark green and Ed Shultz are duking it out on Hardball right now.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 22:07:57
Ed and MArk really hate each other.

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 22:11:21
Quote by Raine: Ed and MArk really hate each other.


Doesn't Ed pretty much hate everyone at AAR?

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 22:15:51
Quote by livingonli:
Quote by Raine: Ed and MArk really hate each other.


Doesn't Ed pretty much hate everyone at AAR?


Somehow I think the feeling is quite mutual... :P

Comment by livingonli on 01/23/2008 22:22:19
Quote by Raine:
Quote by livingonli:
Quote by Raine: Ed and MArk really hate each other.


Doesn't Ed pretty much hate everyone at AAR?


Somehow I think the feeling is quite mutual... :P


That is quite true. And don't forget Mike Malloy. There's no lovefest between him and Ed either.

Comment by starling310 on 01/23/2008 22:43:23




I am here. . . Raine, I just saw your post. You didn't do anything Chica.

I haven't been at the computer much in the last 3 days.





Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 22:53:57
Quote by starling310:



I am here. . . Raine, I just saw your post. You didn't do anything Chica.

I haven't been at the computer much in the last 3 days.



Ok, I was worried... miss you love you.



Comment by starling310 on 01/23/2008 22:56:47
Oh, that's sweet that you worried. At least I know were I face down a ditch someone would come looking for me.

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 23:02:04
Comment by BobR on 01/23/2008 23:33:54
Quote by starling310: Oh, that's sweet that you worried. At least I know were I face down a ditch someone would come looking for me.


I saw you had some trouble logging into the board. Everything ok now?

Comment by Raine on 01/23/2008 23:51:56
Moral Combat!!!




Comment by velveeta jones on 01/24/2008 00:33:34
OMG!!



WHAT A DAY!!!!









NEED SLEEP.

Comment by livingonli on 01/24/2008 01:16:18
Sleep is always good.

Comment by Raine on 01/24/2008 01:19:07
John was just on KO! When the vid comes up I will post it!

Comment by livingonli on 01/24/2008 01:21:38
AAP is back up.

Comment by starling310 on 01/24/2008 02:21:27
Quote by BobR:
Quote by starling310: Oh, that's sweet that you worried. At least I know were I face down a ditch someone would come looking for me.


I saw you had some trouble logging into the board. Everything ok now?




The trouble is my memory on the password.

Comment by TriSec on 01/24/2008 02:37:29
Keerist, what a day.



Apropo that I would see "Salt I" and "Salt II" at the top of the blog...





Comment by Mondobubba on 01/24/2008 02:45:20
memo to Mitt Romney:



Gov. Romney I would like to remind you that you must not get you queues on how African-Americans speak from what is said on either UPN or CW network shows. When you say things like "bling bling" you are just embaresing yourself. Along with being a middle-aged white male, you are a Morman. You might not know this, but being a Morman makes a particularly extra white kinda white guy.



Comment by livingonli on 01/24/2008 03:01:24
Quote by Mondobubba: memo to Mitt Romney:



Gov. Romney I would like to remind you that you must not get you queues on how African-Americans speak from what is said on either UPN or CW network shows. When you say things like "bling bling" you are just embaresing yourself. Along with being a middle-aged white male, you are a Morman. You might not know this, but being a Morman makes a particularly extra white kinda white guy.



Romney, you're white and you're lame. Get used to it.

Comment by Raine on 01/24/2008 03:19:11
Quote by Mondobubba: memo to Mitt Romney: Gov. Romney I would like to remind you that you must not get you queues on how African-Americans speak from what is said on either UPN or CW network shows. When you say things like "bling bling" you are just embaresing yourself. Along with being a middle-aged white male, you are a Morman. You might not know this, but being a Morman makes a particularly extra white kinda white guy.
:rofl: