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Let's have that debate
Author: Raine
Date: 06/12/2013 14:12:24
Since last week, it's been said that we need to have a debate over the NSA and its practices of government surveillance. I would like to have that debate. I would like to have that debate based upon things other than paranoia and fear.
In order to do so, I would like to make it clear that I am not sitting here defending nor negating what is happening. Discussing what is actually happening does not equal acceptance.
I believe that Edward Snowden's story is suspect. Daniel Ellsberg calls him a hero and identifies with him -- but here is the rub: Ellsberg at the very least tried to tell administration and elected officials about the Pentagon papers -- Snowden didn't even bother trying with the information he had. Instead, he went to Hong Kong while still in the employ of Booz Allen Hamilton. He was there when the Washington Post and the Guardian published their stories about the NSA programs, Verizon and PRISM. What we learned a few days later was that he had contacted a filmmaker in JANUARY.
January. If reports are correct (and so far I have no reason t believe otherwise), that's about two months before he started to work at Booz Allen Hamilton (BAH). Glenn Greenwald has stated that Snowden contacted him in February regarding this. That is about a month before he started to work at BAH
Ironically, if one goes back to the original Guardian interview -- HE HIMSELF said he wanted to be a whistleblower in 2008.
The problem is: he wasn't a whistleblower. He decided to take information: 5 years after he said he wanted to be a whistleblower and 4 years after he left the CIA.
Among his claims is that that he had -- and I quote: “full access to the rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community, and undercover assets all around the world, the locations of every station we have, what their missions are and so forth.” That's a pretty big claim; it's also one that I am not sure is truthful. I'm not the only one: People like myself and others have been accused of essentially attacking the messenger for questioning the veracity and legitimacy of the Snowden Leak. From there it is often conflated with comments like this: Well then, let's talk about warrants: It is fair to say that at this point, FISA and the courts that oversee it have become too powerful. This is a Fourth Amendment issue indeed, but as with all amendments, this one is not as black and white as many would like for it to be. When it comes to phone communications, it is even murkier: In 1979, the Supreme court ruled on a case known as Smith V. Maryland. the findings? It appears that once your information leaves your home, you have lost some of your claims to privacy regarding it. This isn't hyperbole or what ifs' -- it is the way the law has been interpreted by the United States Supreme court. And here's the thing: the Smith V Maryland case? That is meta-data that they are talking about:
We should have a discussion about what the government is doing in our name -- to be honest we HAVE been having this discussion all along. What I am not willing to do is blindly side with libertarian ideology, to be quite honest. I am certainly not going to take the word of one man who is disgruntled and declaring that his actions were done in the name of protecting America.
There is opinion, and there are facts. We should question things, not just the government but also where and who regarding the giving & taking of information. A debate requires not only the desire to change hearts and minds of others; but also the ability to have our hearts and minds changed. It appears as though people who don't want Eric Snowden scrutinized also believe him at face value. There is a tendency from some Snowden supporters, (much like the supporters of Bradley Manning, Wikileaks/Assange and Anonymous) that assume the Government is bad and refute scrutinization of the actions done by the likes of those listed above as impeccable and unimpeachable. If that is the case, we have a far bigger problem in our nation than the NSA.
And I should like to be able to love my country and still love justice. I don't want just any greatness for it, particularly a greatness born of blood and falsehood. I want to keep it alive by keeping justice alive. - Albert Camus
& 
Raine
In order to do so, I would like to make it clear that I am not sitting here defending nor negating what is happening. Discussing what is actually happening does not equal acceptance.
I believe that Edward Snowden's story is suspect. Daniel Ellsberg calls him a hero and identifies with him -- but here is the rub: Ellsberg at the very least tried to tell administration and elected officials about the Pentagon papers -- Snowden didn't even bother trying with the information he had. Instead, he went to Hong Kong while still in the employ of Booz Allen Hamilton. He was there when the Washington Post and the Guardian published their stories about the NSA programs, Verizon and PRISM. What we learned a few days later was that he had contacted a filmmaker in JANUARY.
January. If reports are correct (and so far I have no reason t believe otherwise), that's about two months before he started to work at Booz Allen Hamilton (BAH). Glenn Greenwald has stated that Snowden contacted him in February regarding this. That is about a month before he started to work at BAH
Ironically, if one goes back to the original Guardian interview -- HE HIMSELF said he wanted to be a whistleblower in 2008.
The problem is: he wasn't a whistleblower. He decided to take information: 5 years after he said he wanted to be a whistleblower and 4 years after he left the CIA.
Among his claims is that that he had -- and I quote: “full access to the rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community, and undercover assets all around the world, the locations of every station we have, what their missions are and so forth.” That's a pretty big claim; it's also one that I am not sure is truthful. I'm not the only one:
It's a big leap from stealing classified PowerPoint slides to wire tapping phones and accessing dossiers for spies and other agency personal. And the NSA presumably segmented access to very sensitive data says Williamson.
"I have access to lots and lots of confidential documents here at my company, but I'm not allowed to change how the network runs," Williamson says. "He (Snowden) may have had access to PowerPoint slides, but not necessarily have control of all those other systems.
"What we don't know is how broad that leak really was. From a national security point of view, that's where I would want to go back and take a hard look at the veracity of his statements."
Dr. Mike Lloyd, chief technology officer of Red Seal Networks, notes that unverified claims are just that – unverified.
"Hackers have always had a strong tendency to brag, and since so much of the activity is hard to trace, they also tend to exaggerate," Lloyd says.
IF my government is collecting my words, my electronic activity and my email...WITHOUT A WARRANT mind you... and with no conceivable reason to do so.... WHY are people so hell bent on judging the guy who TOLD YOU ... with sufficient proof that our gov't was forced to not lie.
Just wondering why THAT is not the outrage?
Hearing about FISA in a vacuum without any other information would probably cause most people to believe that FISA has the strong potential to violate the fourth amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure. In fact, FISA was created to strengthen the fourth amendment and I will explain how.
FISA was created by Ted Kennedy for two reasons. First, it was created as a response to President Nixon using warrantless wiretaps and other searches to target political opponents and activist groups. The other reason it was created was made clear by one of the US Court of appeals decisions that affirmed the constitutionality of FISA, and that is the 1984 US v Duggan decision. Part of the Duggan decision reads:
Prior to the enactment of FISA, virtually every court that had addressed the issue had concluded that the President had the inherent power to conduct warrantless electronic surveillance to collect foreign intelligence information, and that such surveillance constituted an exception to the warrant requirement of the Fourth Amendment.
The Duggan decision goes on to list six or seven other appeals court decisions where courts concluded that the President has the inherent power to conduct this kind of warrantless electronic surveillance to collect foreign intelligence information.
Senator Kennedy and President Carter did not like the idea of warrantless wiretapping even though it was judged in the case of foreign espionage and terrorism to be Constitutional …so they created FISA which requires the Justice Department and intelligence agencies of the executive branch to get a judge to sign off on a warrant in order to conduct these surveillances. It also gives a number of congressional committees the ability to look over these warrants.
Critics point out that the judges almost always sign off on FISA warrants. That’s right. They sign off because as pointed out in the Duggan decision, appeals courts have already ruled many times that the President has the right to conduct this surveillance and that this surveillance does not violate the fourth amendment provided that the ultimate target of the investigation is a foreign sponsored entity or terrorist organization. FISA does provide additional rules as to how these activities are to be done and also restricts how long the justice department and intelligence agencies can hold onto the acquired information before they must dispose of it.
Installation and use of a pen register by the telephone company, at the behest of the government, to record the telephone numbers dialed from a private residence is not a search within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment. Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735 (1979) (concluding that the defendant did not likely have an expectation of privacy in the numbers he dialed, but even if he did, such expectation was unreasonable).
But since the 1979 ruling in Smith v. Maryland it has been well settled that the government does not need a warrant to look at phone records — information about, say, the duration and direction of calls that companies routinely gather from their customers, who therefore have no reasonable expectation of privacy.
To the extent that the NSA is gathering only “metadata” about people’s phone calls and their activities on social media, Smith v. Maryland is on the government’s side.
True, the FISA court works in secret — not ideal for a purist civil libertarian. But remember that the court was established as a remedy for the unchecked executive-branch snooping of the 1960s and 1970s, and that it was further empowered under the 2008 amendments to remedy perceived excesses of the George W. Bush administration.
Metadata and private content travel together on the Internet, so it’s technically easy to look at the latter after accumulating the former. But the 2008 statute requires the government to take steps — known as “minimization” — to limit warrantless access to private data.
Maybe those procedures are routinely violated. Yet for all his claimed knowledge of wrongdoing, leaker Edward Snowden has yet to specify a single such instance.
We should have a discussion about what the government is doing in our name -- to be honest we HAVE been having this discussion all along. What I am not willing to do is blindly side with libertarian ideology, to be quite honest. I am certainly not going to take the word of one man who is disgruntled and declaring that his actions were done in the name of protecting America.
There is opinion, and there are facts. We should question things, not just the government but also where and who regarding the giving & taking of information. A debate requires not only the desire to change hearts and minds of others; but also the ability to have our hearts and minds changed. It appears as though people who don't want Eric Snowden scrutinized also believe him at face value. There is a tendency from some Snowden supporters, (much like the supporters of Bradley Manning, Wikileaks/Assange and Anonymous) that assume the Government is bad and refute scrutinization of the actions done by the likes of those listed above as impeccable and unimpeachable. If that is the case, we have a far bigger problem in our nation than the NSA.
& Raine
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 13:25:59
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 13:25:59
Morning 
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 13:32:54
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 13:32:54
We gots two stubs, good sir.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 13:38:41
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 13:38:41
Morning.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 13:39:37
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 13:39:37
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 13:40:02
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 13:40:02
Mine has kittens 
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 13:56:58
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 13:56:58
Comment by 
Scoopster on 06/12/2013 13:57:41
Scoopster on 06/12/2013 13:57:41
Mornin' all.. 
*peeks at the other stubbie* omgsqueeeee kittehz!
*peeks at the other stubbie* omgsqueeeee kittehz!
Comment by 
TriSec on 06/12/2013 13:58:21
TriSec on 06/12/2013 13:58:21
hah. I have a warthog!
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 14:03:51
Good for her!
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 14:03:51
Quote by Mondobubba:
This is why you don't send unsolicetedpictures to women you don't know.
Good for her!
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 14:14:23
TriSec on 06/12/2013 14:14:23
Ok, fine. You win.
Can I park my A-10 out back? I promise not to have an "accident" with the gattling gun. (Actually, It's been a long time since we hunted right-wing scows...)
Can I park my A-10 out back? I promise not to have an "accident" with the gattling gun. (Actually, It's been a long time since we hunted right-wing scows...)
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 14:18:34
TriSec on 06/12/2013 14:18:34
There is a place where aviation and kittehs intersect, but I don't think I'll post that photo/story. (and if you know of which I speak, you're welcome.)
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 14:18:45
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 14:18:45
Don't think you can "attack" the messenger when the messenger is being kind of sketchy - he's drawing attention to himself
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 14:21:10
Sure - though I think were all able to be merged to the mothership
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 14:21:10
Quote by TriSec:
Ok, fine. You win.
Can I park my A-10 out back? I promise not to have an "accident" with the gattling gun. (Actually, It's been a long time since we hunted right-wing scows...)
Sure - though I think were all able to be merged to the mothership
Comment by 
Raine on 06/12/2013 14:37:18
BLOG IS POSTED!
I repeat:
BLOG IS POSTED!
Raine on 06/12/2013 14:37:18
I repeat:
BLOG IS POSTED!
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 14:48:27
Raine on 06/12/2013 14:48:27
and....
Blog killed blog.
long live blog....
Blog killed blog.
long live blog....
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 14:50:59
And a great one at that. The more I read about Snowden and what he is claiming the more I realize a lot of it doesn't pass a sniff text. This stuff about how he had access to all this information about locations of all intelligence stations throughout the world sounds like bullshit to me. It would be from a network security standpoint be really bad.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 14:50:59
Quote by Raine:BLOG IS POSTED!
I repeat:
BLOG IS POSTED!
And a great one at that. The more I read about Snowden and what he is claiming the more I realize a lot of it doesn't pass a sniff text. This stuff about how he had access to all this information about locations of all intelligence stations throughout the world sounds like bullshit to me. It would be from a network security standpoint be really bad.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 14:51:08
I think everyone's disoriented from being beamed aboard the mothership
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 14:51:08
Quote by Raine:
and....
Blog killed blog.
long live blog....
I think everyone's disoriented from being beamed aboard the mothership
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:01:58
I would be very worried if it was Vogon Destructor ship.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:01:58
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
and....
Blog killed blog.
long live blog....
I think everyone's disoriented from being beamed aboard the mothership
I would be very worried if it was Vogon Destructor ship.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 15:10:14
Raine on 06/12/2013 15:10:14
One thing I am deeply DEEPLY curious about -- why didn't Snowden at least TRY to get in touch with congress?
I mean come on... This entire thing is a Ran/Rand paul WET DREAM.
I mean come on... This entire thing is a Ran/Rand paul WET DREAM.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 15:10:48
nnnnnnnooooooooo!!!! *wraps towel over ears*
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 15:10:48
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
and....
Blog killed blog.
long live blog....
I think everyone's disoriented from being beamed aboard the mothership
I would be very worried if it was Vogon Destructor ship.
nnnnnnnooooooooo!!!! *wraps towel over ears*
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 15:16:30
Raine on 06/12/2013 15:16:30
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:16:41
I dunno, because he's not really a whistle blower, he is a Chinese agent? :tinfoilhat:
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:16:41
Quote by Raine:
One thing I am deeply DEEPLY curious about -- why didn't Snowden at least TRY to get in touch with congress?
I mean come on... This entire thing is a Ran/Rand paul WET DREAM.
I dunno, because he's not really a whistle blower, he is a Chinese agent? :tinfoilhat:
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:21:31
Leopard, spots etc.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:21:31
Leopard, spots etc.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/12/2013 15:38:16
Will in Chicago on 06/12/2013 15:38:16
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I do have a lot of questions about Snowden's story and the use of meta data. I think we need to have a healthy debate.
One thing that I consider as a possibility is that Snowden did not think of going to a Congreassman. He could have asked Senators Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders or a few others to do what former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel did -- read everything into the Congressional record. (Even if Snowden meant well, he did not show the best judgment -- Hong Kong is not where I would go to hide out from the NSA.)
We need more information about specific violations and can then take action to remedy the problems with our information gathering. We can and should have privacy and security. So, let us have a good, robust national debate. That is ultimately how we solve problems in this country.
Raine, I do have a lot of questions about Snowden's story and the use of meta data. I think we need to have a healthy debate.
One thing that I consider as a possibility is that Snowden did not think of going to a Congreassman. He could have asked Senators Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders or a few others to do what former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel did -- read everything into the Congressional record. (Even if Snowden meant well, he did not show the best judgment -- Hong Kong is not where I would go to hide out from the NSA.)
We need more information about specific violations and can then take action to remedy the problems with our information gathering. We can and should have privacy and security. So, let us have a good, robust national debate. That is ultimately how we solve problems in this country.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 15:41:25
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 15:41:25
Quote by Mondobubba:
Leopard, spots etc.
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 15:45:19
“I’ve been on air since 1979,†and by his estimate, he has said approximately 89 million words.
“How many have been of value?†he asked. “Or positive? Or made a difference?â€
Very, very, very, very, very, few of them....one would think.
TriSec on 06/12/2013 15:45:19
Quote by Raine:
Glenn Beck's teary-eyed silent monologue: My vocal chords [sic] are paralyzed - See
“I’ve been on air since 1979,†and by his estimate, he has said approximately 89 million words.
“How many have been of value?†he asked. “Or positive? Or made a difference?â€
Very, very, very, very, very, few of them....one would think.
Comment by 
livingonli on 06/12/2013 15:45:24
livingonli on 06/12/2013 15:45:24
Good morning, folks.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 15:46:48
*checks clock*
I kid, I kid Hey Liv 
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 15:46:48
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning, folks.
*checks clock*
I kid, I kid
Hey Liv
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:49:47
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:49:47
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:
Leopard, spots etc.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:51:00
The FCC mandated time checks and station IDs?
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 15:51:00
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
Glenn Beck's teary-eyed silent monologue: My vocal chords [sic] are paralyzed - See
“I’ve been on air since 1979,†and by his estimate, he has said approximately 89 million words.
“How many have been of value?†he asked. “Or positive? Or made a difference?â€
Very, very, very, very, very, few of them....one would think.
The FCC mandated time checks and station IDs?
Comment by livingonli on 06/12/2013 15:53:24
livingonli on 06/12/2013 15:53:24
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by livingonli:
Good morning, folks.
*checks clock*
Can't sleep past noon every day. Even though my schedule makes it difficult for me to go to sleep at a normal hour.
I kid, I kid
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 15:56:33
Interesting, considering who the Redskins's General Manager is...
The brother of George Macacca Allen. Hmm... looky here:
Raine on 06/12/2013 15:56:33
Quote by Mondobubba:
OMG! The Washington Redskins have hired Frank Luntz!
The brother of George Macacca Allen. Hmm... looky here:
@daveweigel
Frank Luntz asks the crowd to "help bring George Allen back to the United States Senate." #FFC2011
11:16 AM - 4 Jun 11
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 15:59:06
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 15:59:06
Hey - we German can be very funny
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 16:02:17
Yes!
Raine on 06/12/2013 16:02:17
Quote by wickedpam:
Hey - we German can be very funny
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/12/2013 16:08:27
Raine, I am still checking for jobs in Northern Virginia, but it will be hard to root for the Washington Redskins with this line up.
Also, while checking Raw Story, I found a link to an article in the Guardian by Chinese artist and activist Ai Weiwei which stresses why we should have a debate on the issues raised by the NSA scandal. NSA surveillance makes the U.S. sound a lot like China
Obviously, what Ai went through was horrific, but he makes a key point: a just society is one where the rule of law prevails.
Will in Chicago on 06/12/2013 16:08:27
Quote by Raine:Interesting, considering who the Redskins's General Manager is...Quote by Mondobubba:
OMG! The Washington Redskins have hired Frank Luntz!
The brother of George Macacca Allen. Hmm... looky here:@daveweigel
Frank Luntz asks the crowd to "help bring George Allen back to the United States Senate." #FFC2011
11:16 AM - 4 Jun 11
Raine, I am still checking for jobs in Northern Virginia, but it will be hard to root for the Washington Redskins with this line up.
Also, while checking Raw Story, I found a link to an article in the Guardian by Chinese artist and activist Ai Weiwei which stresses why we should have a debate on the issues raised by the NSA scandal. NSA surveillance makes the U.S. sound a lot like China
Obviously, what Ai went through was horrific, but he makes a key point: a just society is one where the rule of law prevails.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:09:40
George Senior was the head coach for many years. Interesting. What I liked was calling out Dan Synder as thick headed gmoke. Which he is.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:09:40
Quote by Raine:Interesting, considering who the Redskins's General Manager is...Quote by Mondobubba:
OMG! The Washington Redskins have hired Frank Luntz!
The brother of George Macacca Allen. Hmm... looky here:@daveweigel
Frank Luntz asks the crowd to "help bring George Allen back to the United States Senate." #FFC2011
11:16 AM - 4 Jun 11
George Senior was the head coach for many years. Interesting. What I liked was calling out Dan Synder as thick headed gmoke. Which he is.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/12/2013 16:10:28
Will in Chicago on 06/12/2013 16:10:28
Mike Papantonio is on for Ed Schultz. I hope all is well with Ed and his wife.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:10:42
In a very precise way! I keed!
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:10:42
Quote by wickedpam:
Hey - we German can be very funny
In a very precise way!
I keed!
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:13:49
hey I was going to say in a very arid way
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:13:49
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:
Hey - we German can be very funny
In a very precise way!
hey I was going to say in a very arid way
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:16:23
I got Jeff Santos filling in on THe Mic
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:16:23
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Mike Papantonio is on for Ed Schultz. I hope all is well with Ed and his wife.
I got Jeff Santos filling in on THe Mic
Comment by livingonli on 06/12/2013 16:17:11
And now it's switched to Jeff Santos abruptly in the first segment. Sounds like they're having issues.
livingonli on 06/12/2013 16:17:11
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Mike Papantonio is on for Ed Schultz. I hope all is well with Ed and his wife.
And now it's switched to Jeff Santos abruptly in the first segment. Sounds like they're having issues.
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 16:17:28
TriSec on 06/12/2013 16:17:28
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:21:55
and now its back to Mike
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:21:55
Quote by livingonli:Quote by Will in Chicago:
Mike Papantonio is on for Ed Schultz. I hope all is well with Ed and his wife.
And now it's switched to Jeff Santos abruptly in the first segment. Sounds like they're having issues.
and now its back to Mike
Comment by livingonli on 06/12/2013 16:22:33
livingonli on 06/12/2013 16:22:33
And now Pap is back on. Listening on Sirius-XM.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 16:25:03
I'll never root for the 'Skins I'm a giants fan.
Will, you keep saying we should have a debate. What in my blog was inaccurate? Yes, what Ai went thru was horrific. I am not questioning that, but absent of tearing the whole fucker down, what do you propose? I laid out a clear reason why and how the FISA court came to be.
A good place to start is to decommision the patriot act. As to the rest, what? I read this: You know private corporations can do ALL of this as well.
They can sell your information -- legally in many cases -- and I'm not talking about to government. That isn't covered under the fourth amendment -- it's called the commerce clause. There is a huge problem with the amount of contracting we do and how easy it is for people to get clearances -- you see, they sign a piece of paper but they are not held accountable as a government employee. It's not government -- it is also private enterprise. That is reality.
Do you really believe we live in an oppressive country the likes of which China is? I don't think we are china.
Raine on 06/12/2013 16:25:03
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Raine, I am still checking for jobs in Northern Virginia, but it will be hard to root for the Washington Redskins with this line up.
Also, while checking Raw Story, I found a link to an article in the Guardian by Chinese artist and activist Ai Weiwei which stresses why we should have a debate on the issues raised by the NSA scandal. NSA surveillance makes the U.S. sound a lot like China
Obviously, what Ai went through was horrific, but he makes a key point: a just society is one where the rule of law prevails.
Will, you keep saying we should have a debate. What in my blog was inaccurate? Yes, what Ai went thru was horrific. I am not questioning that, but absent of tearing the whole fucker down, what do you propose? I laid out a clear reason why and how the FISA court came to be.
A good place to start is to decommision the patriot act. As to the rest, what? I read this:
Today, through its technical abilities, the state can easily get into anybody’s bank account, private mail, conversations, and social media accounts. The internet and social media give us new possibilities of exploring ourselves.
But we have never exposed ourselves in this way before, and it makes us vulnerable if anyone chooses to use it against us. Any information or communication could put young people under the surveillance of the state. Very often, when oppressive states arrest people, they have that information in their hands. It can be used as a way of controlling you, to tell you: we know exactly what you’re thinking or doing. It can drive people to madness.
They can sell your information -- legally in many cases -- and I'm not talking about to government. That isn't covered under the fourth amendment -- it's called the commerce clause. There is a huge problem with the amount of contracting we do and how easy it is for people to get clearances -- you see, they sign a piece of paper but they are not held accountable as a government employee. It's not government -- it is also private enterprise. That is reality.
Do you really believe we live in an oppressive country the likes of which China is? I don't think we are china.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:26:50
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho still smarter than GW Bush.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:26:50
Quote by TriSec:
IN other news, America's collective IQ continues to plummet...
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho still smarter than GW Bush.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 16:35:42
Raine on 06/12/2013 16:35:42
DEAR EVERYONE :
if a fellow named JJ Ray asks for permission to joing the 4f FB group DO NOT give him access. He's a 9/11 truther troll.
if a fellow named JJ Ray asks for permission to joing the 4f FB group DO NOT give him access. He's a 9/11 truther troll.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:37:57
okey dokey
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:37:57
Quote by Raine:
DEAR EVERYONE :
if a fellow named JJ Ray asks for permission to joing the 4f FB group DO NOT give him access. He's a 9/11 truther troll.
okey dokey
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:42:59
Oh we don't want that. They are Troll-B-Gon® resistant.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:42:59
Quote by Raine:
DEAR EVERYONE :
if a fellow named JJ Ray asks for permission to joing the 4f FB group DO NOT give him access. He's a 9/11 truther troll.
Oh we don't want that. They are Troll-B-Gon® resistant.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:45:24
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:45:24
Comment by 
clintster on 06/12/2013 16:45:55
clintster on 06/12/2013 16:45:55
I just read elsewhere that we became a right-wing blog. Is that true?
(scans blog for crying eagle GIFs, maudlin tributes to Ronald Reagan, and posts about Barack Obama's secret connection to Saddam Hussein)
Huh...
(F5)
Nope. Guess that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
(scans blog for crying eagle GIFs, maudlin tributes to Ronald Reagan, and posts about Barack Obama's secret connection to Saddam Hussein)
Huh...
(F5)
Nope. Guess that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:47:07
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 16:47:07
In listening to Mike, I have to wonder if sometimes he's missing the demo or generation that he needs to talk too. He keeps referring to stuff that happened when must of us were kids and not aware, so how does he sound to a generation that really doesn't know what he's talking about and unless they put it on the stupid SOL test probably aren't going to understand it.
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 16:47:45
Aww, couldn't we just taunt him for a while?
TriSec on 06/12/2013 16:47:45
Quote by Raine:
DEAR EVERYONE :
if a fellow named JJ Ray asks for permission to joing the 4f FB group DO NOT give him access. He's a 9/11 truther troll.
Aww, couldn't we just taunt him for a while?
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 16:48:23
Are you speaking of my new best buddy, JJ?
Raine on 06/12/2013 16:48:23
Quote by clintster:
I just read elsewhere that we became a right-wing blog. Is that true?
(scans blog for crying eagle GIFs, maudlin tributes to Ronald Reagan, and posts about Barack Obama's secret connection to Saddam Hussein)
Huh...
(F5)
Nope. Guess that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 16:49:41
No. (see the SMS fan club FB page, you will what I am speaking of -- taunt that idiot over there.
Raine on 06/12/2013 16:49:41
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
DEAR EVERYONE :
if a fellow named JJ Ray asks for permission to joing the 4f FB group DO NOT give him access. He's a 9/11 truther troll.
Aww, couldn't we just taunt him for a while?
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:50:37
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:50:37
When I call Issa's office should I refer to him as a gaping asshole or dumb as stump? Or both?
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 16:51:54
C'mon Raine, you know you're one of those high-falutin' right wing liberals everyone's been talking about. Admit it. Confess, woman! CONFESS!
clintster on 06/12/2013 16:51:54
Quote by Raine:Are you speaking of my new best buddy, JJ?Quote by clintster:
I just read elsewhere that we became a right-wing blog. Is that true?
(scans blog for crying eagle GIFs, maudlin tributes to Ronald Reagan, and posts about Barack Obama's secret connection to Saddam Hussein)
Huh...
(F5)
Nope. Guess that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
C'mon Raine, you know you're one of those high-falutin' right wing liberals everyone's been talking about. Admit it. Confess, woman! CONFESS!
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 16:52:41
I would refer to his statement as conduct unbecoming of a car thief.
Raine on 06/12/2013 16:52:41
Quote by Mondobubba:
When I call Issa's office should I refer to him as a gaping asshole or dumb as stump? Or both?
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 16:53:54
Wow, there is so much dogwhistle there I don't know where to begin.
Raine on 06/12/2013 16:53:54
Quote by Mondobubba:
Darrell Issa responds to Rep Cummings, RUDELY.
Can we beat Issa bloody with lead pipes yet?
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:56:11
That is even nastier. Thank you!
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:56:11
Quote by Raine:I would refer to his statement as conduct unbecoming of a car thief.Quote by Mondobubba:
When I call Issa's office should I refer to him as a gaping asshole or dumb as stump? Or both?
That is even nastier.
Thank you!
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 16:58:55
Yes and I am SO ANTI FREE SPEACH!
Flog me! Flog me!
Raine on 06/12/2013 16:58:55
Quote by clintster:
C'mon Raine, you know you're one of those high-falutin' right wing liberals everyone's been talking about. Admit it. Confess, woman! CONFESS!
Yes and I am SO ANTI FREE SPEACH! Flog me! Flog me!
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:59:40
Joan Walsh says : "The farce that is Darrell Issa..."
Oh Joan, you slay me!
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 16:59:40
Quote by Raine:Wow, there is so much dogwhistle there I don't know where to begin.Quote by Mondobubba:
Darrell Issa responds to Rep Cummings, RUDELY.
Can we beat Issa bloody with lead pipes yet?
Joan Walsh says : "The farce that is Darrell Issa..."
Oh Joan, you slay me!
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 17:09:37
Try a control and F5 for a hard refresh, you should see the changes to 4F then. :honeyed CSR voice: Thank you for calling website support and have a great day!
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 17:09:37
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Are you speaking of my new best buddy, JJ?Quote by clintster:
I just read elsewhere that we became a right-wing blog. Is that true?
(scans blog for crying eagle GIFs, maudlin tributes to Ronald Reagan, and posts about Barack Obama's secret connection to Saddam Hussein)
Huh...
(F5)
Nope. Guess that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
C'mon Raine, you know you're one of those high-falutin' right wing liberals everyone's been talking about. Admit it. Confess, woman! CONFESS!
Try a control and F5 for a hard refresh, you should see the changes to 4F then. :honeyed CSR voice: Thank you for calling website support and have a great day!
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 17:12:33
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 17:12:33
now back to Jeff Santos
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 17:12:42
OK, but if I don't see at least one Bedazzled pic of Ronald Reagan, I'm going to be very disappointed.
clintster on 06/12/2013 17:12:42
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Are you speaking of my new best buddy, JJ?Quote by clintster:
I just read elsewhere that we became a right-wing blog. Is that true?
(scans blog for crying eagle GIFs, maudlin tributes to Ronald Reagan, and posts about Barack Obama's secret connection to Saddam Hussein)
Huh...
(F5)
Nope. Guess that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
C'mon Raine, you know you're one of those high-falutin' right wing liberals everyone's been talking about. Admit it. Confess, woman! CONFESS!
Try a control and F5 for a hard refresh, you should see the changes to 4F then. :honeyed CSR voice: Thank you for calling website support and have a great day!
OK, but if I don't see at least one Bedazzled pic of Ronald Reagan, I'm going to be very disappointed.
Comment by livingonli on 06/12/2013 17:15:09
They must be having transmission problems with Pap and they have a backup show rolling.
livingonli on 06/12/2013 17:15:09
Quote by wickedpam:
now back to Jeff Santos
They must be having transmission problems with Pap and they have a backup show rolling.
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 17:39:24
TriSec on 06/12/2013 17:39:24
The Prez makes like an ordinary dude...
Again, I state for the record. Mitt's from here - try to picture him doing something similar.
President Obama got his burger fix today at a familiar South End haunt -- Charlie’s Sandwich Shoppe on Columbus Avenue.
The president, sans jacket, ordered a cheeseburger with lettuce, tomato, mustard, and french fries, to go, and left a $20 bill on the $8 tab, according to Charlie’s staff.
“He wanted something to eat in the car,†said Chris Manjourides, who owns Charlie’s with his three siblings. “He didn’t have time. He was starving.â€
Ronny Alfaro, who cooked the presidential patty in Charlie’s tiny kitchen, said security personnel stood by the grill and watched him prepare the meal.
“I was pretty nervous,†Alfaro said. “The guy who brought the order in was like, ‘This is for the president of the United States... I just started cooking.â€
Again, I state for the record. Mitt's from here - try to picture him doing something similar.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 17:44:15
I love stories like this. You know, if he had the time, the President would have gone in and sat down to eat.
Raine on 06/12/2013 17:44:15
Quote by TriSec:
The Prez makes like an ordinary dude...
President Obama got his burger fix today at a familiar South End haunt -- Charlie’s Sandwich Shoppe on Columbus Avenue.
The president, sans jacket, ordered a cheeseburger with lettuce, tomato, mustard, and french fries, to go, and left a $20 bill on the $8 tab, according to Charlie’s staff.
“He wanted something to eat in the car,†said Chris Manjourides, who owns Charlie’s with his three siblings. “He didn’t have time. He was starving.â€
Ronny Alfaro, who cooked the presidential patty in Charlie’s tiny kitchen, said security personnel stood by the grill and watched him prepare the meal.
“I was pretty nervous,†Alfaro said. “The guy who brought the order in was like, ‘This is for the president of the United States... I just started cooking.â€
Again, I state for the record. Mitt's from here - try to picture him doing something similar.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 17:46:55
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 17:46:55
oh, your concerned troll is concerned 
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 17:52:30
Things I have learned today:
1) Jet fuel burns hotter than melting steel, therefore CONSPIRACY!
More to come, I am sure
clintster on 06/12/2013 17:52:30
Quote by wickedpam:
oh, your concerned troll is concerned
Things I have learned today:
1) Jet fuel burns hotter than melting steel, therefore CONSPIRACY!
More to come, I am sure
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 17:58:53
Watchibg the JJ show is kinda fun - he's all filler no meat, kinda like SPAM
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 17:58:53
Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:
oh, your concerned troll is concerned
Things I have learned today:
1) Jet fuel burns hotter than melting steel, therefore CONSPIRACY!
More to come, I am sure
Watchibg the JJ show is kinda fun - he's all filler no meat, kinda like SPAM
Comment by 
BobR on 06/12/2013 18:02:11
I don't know if that is actually true.
BobR on 06/12/2013 18:02:11
Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:
oh, your concerned troll is concerned
Things I have learned today:
1) Jet fuel burns hotter than melting steel, therefore CONSPIRACY!
More to come, I am sure
I don't know if that is actually true.
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 18:03:18
TriSec on 06/12/2013 18:03:18
a) Let's not insult Spam.
b) Jet exhaust leaves the engine at 1500F but cools rapidly. (I have no information available for "reheat".)
c) Steel melts at around 2500F.
Next?
b) Jet exhaust leaves the engine at 1500F but cools rapidly. (I have no information available for "reheat".)
c) Steel melts at around 2500F.
Next?
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/12/2013 18:04:01
Raine, I truly liked the blog, which I think furthers the debate. I don't think we are oppressive like China, but I think it is important to look at how information is used and abused elsewhere -- to make sure we get safeguards in place.
I think we need to reexamine the Patriot Act. The FISA court is an important safeguard -- and Bush, like Nixon, showed why we still need it.. I also want to examine why we are outsourcing so much of our intelligence gathering efforts to private companies, that seem to be primarily interested in turning a profit. At least I can go file a Freedom of Information Act for a government agency, but we have less recourse with private companies. (The fact that Snowden got into such high profile agencies and companies is a bit disconcerting to me.)
I am not paranoid, but I do wonder where do we go from here.
Will in Chicago on 06/12/2013 18:04:01
Quote by Raine:I'll never root for the 'Skins I'm a giants fan.Quote by Will in Chicago:
Raine, I am still checking for jobs in Northern Virginia, but it will be hard to root for the Washington Redskins with this line up.
Also, while checking Raw Story, I found a link to an article in the Guardian by Chinese artist and activist Ai Weiwei which stresses why we should have a debate on the issues raised by the NSA scandal. NSA surveillance makes the U.S. sound a lot like China
Obviously, what Ai went through was horrific, but he makes a key point: a just society is one where the rule of law prevails.
Will, you keep saying we should have a debate. What in my blog was inaccurate? Yes, what Ai went thru was horrific. I am not questioning that, but absent of tearing the whole fucker down, what do you propose? I laid out a clear reason why and how the FISA court came to be.
A good place to start is to decommision the patriot act. As to the rest, what? I read this:You know private corporations can do ALL of this as well.Today, through its technical abilities, the state can easily get into anybody’s bank account, private mail, conversations, and social media accounts. The internet and social media give us new possibilities of exploring ourselves.
But we have never exposed ourselves in this way before, and it makes us vulnerable if anyone chooses to use it against us. Any information or communication could put young people under the surveillance of the state. Very often, when oppressive states arrest people, they have that information in their hands. It can be used as a way of controlling you, to tell you: we know exactly what you’re thinking or doing. It can drive people to madness.
They can sell your information -- legally in many cases -- and I'm not talking about to government. That isn't covered under the fourth amendment -- it's called the commerce clause. There is a huge problem with the amount of contracting we do and how easy it is for people to get clearances -- you see, they sign a piece of paper but they are not held accountable as a government employee. It's not government -- it is also private enterprise. That is reality.
Do you really believe we live in an oppressive country the likes of which China is? I don't think we are china.
Raine, I truly liked the blog, which I think furthers the debate. I don't think we are oppressive like China, but I think it is important to look at how information is used and abused elsewhere -- to make sure we get safeguards in place.
I think we need to reexamine the Patriot Act. The FISA court is an important safeguard -- and Bush, like Nixon, showed why we still need it.. I also want to examine why we are outsourcing so much of our intelligence gathering efforts to private companies, that seem to be primarily interested in turning a profit. At least I can go file a Freedom of Information Act for a government agency, but we have less recourse with private companies. (The fact that Snowden got into such high profile agencies and companies is a bit disconcerting to me.)
I am not paranoid, but I do wonder where do we go from here.
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 18:05:38
TriSec on 06/12/2013 18:05:38
Oh, and JP-9, the most common fuel grade used for commercial airliners, is pretty much ordinary kerosene. Open-air burn temperature is only about 600 degrees.
(Next time you go to the airport, see if you can catch a whiff of some jet exhaust. The next time you light a charcoal fire with fluid, also kerosene, notice the difference. Or not.)
(Next time you go to the airport, see if you can catch a whiff of some jet exhaust. The next time you light a charcoal fire with fluid, also kerosene, notice the difference. Or not.)
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 18:21:55
Mmm jet exhaust!
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 18:21:55
Quote by TriSec:
Oh, and JP-9, the most common fuel grade used for commercial airliners, is pretty much ordinary kerosene. Open-air burn temperature is only about 600 degrees.
(Next time you go to the airport, see if you can catch a whiff of some jet exhaust. The next time you light a charcoal fire with fluid, also kerosene, notice the difference. Or not.)
Mmm jet exhaust!
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 18:32:36
Spam does taste of human or so I am told...long pig, SPAM...never mind. :skates to penalty box:
SPAM masubi is rather tasty.
Here's a recipe for said dish.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 18:32:36
Quote by TriSec:
a) Let's not insult Spam.
b) Jet exhaust leaves the engine at 1500F but cools rapidly. (I have no information available for "reheat".)
c) Steel melts at around 2500F.
Next?
Spam does taste of human or so I am told...long pig, SPAM...never mind. :skates to penalty box:
SPAM masubi is rather tasty.
Here's a recipe for said dish.
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 18:35:55
clintster on 06/12/2013 18:35:55
Wake up sheeple! Study it out!
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 18:49:35
Baaaaa!
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 18:49:35
Quote by clintster:
Wake up sheeple! Study it out!
Baaaaa!
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 19:03:03
clintster on 06/12/2013 19:03:03
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:06:05
Poppy is totally rocking those socks.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:06:05
Quote by clintster:Quote by Mondobubba:
Dig Poppy Bush's socks!
Nice. Not bad style for an 89-year old.
Poppy is totally rocking those socks.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:08:40
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:08:40
So, there are these things called Wal-Mart Neighborhood Markets. They are opening one not far from where I am in what used to be the grubbiest Food Lion in the world. I'm not sure why Wal Mart is opening one of their grocery only stores less that three frickin' miles from my Mandarin Wal-mart which has a fickin grocery store in it.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:12:21
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:12:21
Hey Tri, is the Whitey Bulger trial coverage up your way wall-to-wall?
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:17:26
=)) I walked away for a bit -- I see JJ kept on keeping on?
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:17:26
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:
oh, your concerned troll is concerned
Things I have learned today:
1) Jet fuel burns hotter than melting steel, therefore CONSPIRACY!
More to come, I am sure
Watchibg the JJ show is kinda fun - he's all filler no meat, kinda like SPAM
=)) I walked away for a bit -- I see JJ kept on keeping on?
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:18:21
Ask JJ ray!
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:18:21
Quote by BobR:Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:
oh, your concerned troll is concerned
Things I have learned today:
1) Jet fuel burns hotter than melting steel, therefore CONSPIRACY!
More to come, I am sure
I don't know if that is actually true.
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 19:19:50
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
clintster on 06/12/2013 19:19:50
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:
oh, your concerned troll is concerned
Things I have learned today:
1) Jet fuel burns hotter than melting steel, therefore CONSPIRACY!
More to come, I am sure
Watchibg the JJ show is kinda fun - he's all filler no meat, kinda like SPAM
=)) I walked away for a bit -- I see JJ kept on keeping on?
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:21:58
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:21:58
JJ Ray:
Clint and Raine I want you to understand. I am not mad AT you. I am mad FOR you. Liberals have to learn to stand up and shout. Republicans do it every day...
Here is my honest, sincere message to all of you Liberals reading this...
Get off of your ASS and say something about the things that are going on, all around you!!!
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:22:54
I love this!
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:22:54
Quote by clintster:
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
I love this!
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:27:46
Clint! Log off that computer right now and go outside and play in the sunshine!
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:27:46
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:
oh, your concerned troll is concerned
Things I have learned today:
1) Jet fuel burns hotter than melting steel, therefore CONSPIRACY!
More to come, I am sure
Watchibg the JJ show is kinda fun - he's all filler no meat, kinda like SPAM
=)) I walked away for a bit -- I see JJ kept on keeping on?
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
Clint! Log off that computer right now and go outside and play in the sunshine!
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:28:46
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:28:46
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:29:07
Yeah, Raine you are such a shrinking violet you would never, ever speak your mind. 
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:29:07
Quote by Raine:
JJ Ray:Clint and Raine I want you to understand. I am not mad AT you. I am mad FOR you. Liberals have to learn to stand up and shout. Republicans do it every day...
Here is my honest, sincere message to all of you Liberals reading this...
Get off of your ASS and say something about the things that are going on, all around you!!!
Yeah, Raine you are such a shrinking violet you would never, ever speak your mind.
Comment by Scoopster on 06/12/2013 19:30:55
Scoopster on 06/12/2013 19:30:55
Man, I'm missing all the fun! 
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 19:32:38
TriSec on 06/12/2013 19:32:38
Stanley Cup game 1, Tebow at Mini-Camp, Sox playing the Rays, Noah-like deluges....
No, Whitey currently rates no higher than fifth at the moment.
Maybe even sixth, with the President in Southie today.
No, Whitey currently rates no higher than fifth at the moment.
Maybe even sixth, with the President in Southie today.
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 19:32:50
JJ and company: 9/11 was an inside job! Prove us wrong.
Clint: Well... (posting links, pics, videos and formulae disproving their points)
JJ etc: Sorry you are not open to see things from a scientific view. Bye.
clintster on 06/12/2013 19:32:50
Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
JJ and company: 9/11 was an inside job! Prove us wrong.
Clint: Well... (posting links, pics, videos and formulae disproving their points)
JJ etc: Sorry you are not open to see things from a scientific view. Bye.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 19:34:56
you know for a dude who whines that everyone needs to "get off their ass" what exactly is he doing? well, beside posting his craziness on FB?
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 19:34:56
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
JJ and company: 9/11 was an inside job! Prove us wrong.
Clint: Well... (posting links, pics, videos and formulae disproving their points)
JJ etc: Sorry you are not open to see things from a scientific view. Bye.
you know for a dude who whines that everyone needs to "get off their ass" what exactly is he doing? well, beside posting his craziness on FB?
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:38:35
I have always depended on the kindness of strangers... 
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:38:35
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
JJ Ray:Clint and Raine I want you to understand. I am not mad AT you. I am mad FOR you. Liberals have to learn to stand up and shout. Republicans do it every day...
Here is my honest, sincere message to all of you Liberals reading this...
Get off of your ASS and say something about the things that are going on, all around you!!!
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:38:44
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:38:44
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:41:03
The Whitey reportage is a damn shame. Boston, you can do bettah.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:41:03
Quote by TriSec:
Stanley Cup game 1, Tebow at Mini-Camp, Sox playing the Rays, Noah-like deluges....
No, Whitey currently rates no higher than fifth at the moment.
Maybe even sixth, with the President in Southie today.
The Whitey reportage is a damn shame. Boston, you can do bettah.
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 19:41:22
Yeaaaah, and I apparently "faded into absurdity".
clintster on 06/12/2013 19:41:22
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
JJ and company: 9/11 was an inside job! Prove us wrong.
Clint: Well... (posting links, pics, videos and formulae disproving their points)
JJ etc: Sorry you are not open to see things from a scientific view. Bye.
you know for a dude who whines that everyone needs to "get off their ass" what exactly is he doing? well, beside posting his craziness on FB?
Yeaaaah, and I apparently "faded into absurdity".
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:42:29
Sounds like RFK, Jr. and vaccines.
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:42:29
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
JJ and company: 9/11 was an inside job! Prove us wrong.
Clint: Well... (posting links, pics, videos and formulae disproving their points)
JJ etc: Sorry you are not open to see things from a scientific view. Bye.
Sounds like RFK, Jr. and vaccines.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 19:45:23
yes the absurdity of facts - craziness - the guy is a troll and a spammer - don't think I've seen too many other people post on the page
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 19:45:23
Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
JJ and company: 9/11 was an inside job! Prove us wrong.
Clint: Well... (posting links, pics, videos and formulae disproving their points)
JJ etc: Sorry you are not open to see things from a scientific view. Bye.
you know for a dude who whines that everyone needs to "get off their ass" what exactly is he doing? well, beside posting his craziness on FB?
Yeaaaah, and I apparently "faded into absurdity".
yes the absurdity of facts - craziness - the guy is a troll and a spammer - don't think I've seen too many other people post on the page
Comment by TriSec on 06/12/2013 19:45:29
Well, that's just the thing. If you polled the city right now, you'd get back "We find the defendent guilty as all fuck, your honour".
The pool was over 700 persons to whittle down to the 18 folks seated in the jury box. The real interest was the manhunt and him being on the lam for 18 years. The trial? File under "meh".
TriSec on 06/12/2013 19:45:29
Quote by Mondobubba:
The Whitey reportage is a damn shame. Boston, you can do bettah.
Well, that's just the thing. If you polled the city right now, you'd get back "We find the defendent guilty as all fuck, your honour".
The pool was over 700 persons to whittle down to the 18 folks seated in the jury box. The real interest was the manhunt and him being on the lam for 18 years. The trial? File under "meh".
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:47:28
he's someone's child... that makes me weep.
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:47:28
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
JJ and company: 9/11 was an inside job! Prove us wrong.
Clint: Well... (posting links, pics, videos and formulae disproving their points)
JJ etc: Sorry you are not open to see things from a scientific view. Bye.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:48:48
That sounds about right.
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:48:48
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
The Whitey reportage is a damn shame. Boston, you can do bettah.
Well, that's just the thing. If you polled the city right now, you'd get back "We find the defendent guilty as all fuck, your honour".
The pool was over 700 persons to whittle down to the 18 folks seated in the jury box. The real interest was the manhunt and him being on the lam for 18 years. The trial? File under "meh".
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 19:49:03
He certainly acts like it. I've finished now and unfollowed the thread. Enough debunking conspiracy catnip for today.
clintster on 06/12/2013 19:49:03
Quote by Raine:he's someone's child... that makes me weep.Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:
Yeah, and I'm basically wasting time chasing him around the mulberry bush while I'm waiting on a call about this job. He's like an Energizer Bunny of derp.
JJ and company: 9/11 was an inside job! Prove us wrong.
Clint: Well... (posting links, pics, videos and formulae disproving their points)
JJ etc: Sorry you are not open to see things from a scientific view. Bye.
He certainly acts like it. I've finished now and unfollowed the thread. Enough debunking conspiracy catnip for today.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:52:44
:dramatic sigh:
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:52:44
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
The Whitey reportage is a damn shame. Boston, you can do bettah.
Well, that's just the thing. If you polled the city right now, you'd get back "We find the defendent guilty as all fuck, your honour".
The pool was over 700 persons to whittle down to the 18 folks seated in the jury box. The real interest was the manhunt and him being on the lam for 18 years. The trial? File under "meh".
:dramatic sigh:
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:56:20
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 19:56:20
Snowden emerges and is interviewed by the South China Morning Post.
Shocking revelation! We hack China! Floored I tell you, floored.
Shocking revelation! We hack China! Floored I tell you, floored.
Comment by BobR on 06/12/2013 19:56:20
BobR on 06/12/2013 19:56:20
btw Clinster - our neighbor will be your neighbor in a couple months, if you're still there. He got a teaching position at Appalachian State and will be moving there in a couple months.
I'll see about getting contact deets...
I'll see about getting contact deets...
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:57:00
Thanks for the response. I am more inclined to believe that we have a FAR bigger problem with privatization at this point. You'll recall I wrote about Siprnet back in 2010. .
I cannot repeat this enough, we are going to see less transparency as a result of these leaks.
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:57:00
Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by Raine:I'll never root for the 'Skins I'm a giants fan.Quote by Will in Chicago:
Raine, I am still checking for jobs in Northern Virginia, but it will be hard to root for the Washington Redskins with this line up.
Also, while checking Raw Story, I found a link to an article in the Guardian by Chinese artist and activist Ai Weiwei which stresses why we should have a debate on the issues raised by the NSA scandal. NSA surveillance makes the U.S. sound a lot like China
Obviously, what Ai went through was horrific, but he makes a key point: a just society is one where the rule of law prevails.
Will, you keep saying we should have a debate. What in my blog was inaccurate? Yes, what Ai went thru was horrific. I am not questioning that, but absent of tearing the whole fucker down, what do you propose? I laid out a clear reason why and how the FISA court came to be.
A good place to start is to decommision the patriot act. As to the rest, what? I read this:You know private corporations can do ALL of this as well.Today, through its technical abilities, the state can easily get into anybody’s bank account, private mail, conversations, and social media accounts. The internet and social media give us new possibilities of exploring ourselves.
But we have never exposed ourselves in this way before, and it makes us vulnerable if anyone chooses to use it against us. Any information or communication could put young people under the surveillance of the state. Very often, when oppressive states arrest people, they have that information in their hands. It can be used as a way of controlling you, to tell you: we know exactly what you’re thinking or doing. It can drive people to madness.
They can sell your information -- legally in many cases -- and I'm not talking about to government. That isn't covered under the fourth amendment -- it's called the commerce clause. There is a huge problem with the amount of contracting we do and how easy it is for people to get clearances -- you see, they sign a piece of paper but they are not held accountable as a government employee. It's not government -- it is also private enterprise. That is reality.
Do you really believe we live in an oppressive country the likes of which China is? I don't think we are china.
Raine, I truly liked the blog, which I think furthers the debate. I don't think we are oppressive like China, but I think it is important to look at how information is used and abused elsewhere -- to make sure we get safeguards in place.
I think we need to reexamine the Patriot Act. The FISA court is an important safeguard -- and Bush, like Nixon, showed why we still need it.. I also want to examine why we are outsourcing so much of our intelligence gathering efforts to private companies, that seem to be primarily interested in turning a profit. At least I can go file a Freedom of Information Act for a government agency, but we have less recourse with private companies. (The fact that Snowden got into such high profile agencies and companies is a bit disconcerting to me.)
I am not paranoid, but I do wonder where do we go from here.
Perhaps real reporting will occur as the result of what has once again happened. That would be nice, but based on past experience, I am doubtful that will occur.
I have lots of questions, I know. I think most media and people will end up focusing on the more salacious tidbits that came from these cables. Personally, I would like to know more about the who, what and why this is happening. We talk about cyber security as individuals, and yet our own government was so insecure that this has happened - AGAIN. We talk about the failing of the media and the misinformation. There has been talk that what WikiLeaks is doing is the great equalizer. How many people will be responsible with this information?
Some may think this information dump is a good thing, for our freedom, for transparency. I can't disagree with that from an idealistic point of view. From a pragmatic point of view, I don't know. I am personally concerned of a bigger clampdown of information. Sometimes there is a right way of going about things and a wrong way -- it doesn't have anything to do with what's legal. It has to do with what is best for our fragile democracy
I cannot repeat this enough, we are going to see less transparency as a result of these leaks.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:58:33
I have to go fortify the basement windows -- seriously. I'm still trying to dry out the basement from the other day.
This looks like it could get really ugly here tomorrow.
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:58:33
Quote by TriSec:
I'm going to write a strong letter of protest to Al Gore.
This looks like it could get really ugly here tomorrow.
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 19:59:21
That'd be great.
clintster on 06/12/2013 19:59:21
Quote by BobR:
btw Clinster - our neighbor will be your neighbor in a couple months, if you're still there. He got a teaching position at Appalachian State and will be moving there in a couple months.
I'll see about getting contact deets...
That'd be great.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 19:59:46
Aww buck up, kiddo! if you want drama get on the Snowden is a hero bandwagon!
Raine on 06/12/2013 19:59:46
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
The Whitey reportage is a damn shame. Boston, you can do bettah.
Well, that's just the thing. If you polled the city right now, you'd get back "We find the defendent guilty as all fuck, your honour".
The pool was over 700 persons to whittle down to the 18 folks seated in the jury box. The real interest was the manhunt and him being on the lam for 18 years. The trial? File under "meh".
Aww buck up, kiddo! if you want drama get on the Snowden is a hero bandwagon!
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 20:04:19
Topper says we're under flood watch till 10PM tomorrow night
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 20:04:19
Quote by Raine:I have to go fortify the basement windows -- seriously. I'm still trying to dry out the basement from the other day.Quote by TriSec:
I'm going to write a strong letter of protest to Al Gore.
This looks like it could get really ugly here tomorrow.
Topper says we're under flood watch till 10PM tomorrow night
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:05:34
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:05:34
Florida Man Caught Picking Hallucinogenic Mushrooms With Alligator In Backpack
I have someone new to follow on twitter! Florida Man
I have someone new to follow on twitter! Florida Man
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:16:53
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:16:53
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:24:55
Sorry, what? I am hip deep in Florida Man and Florida Woman!
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:24:55
Quote by Raine:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
The Whitey reportage is a damn shame. Boston, you can do bettah.
Well, that's just the thing. If you polled the city right now, you'd get back "We find the defendent guilty as all fuck, your honour".
The pool was over 700 persons to whittle down to the 18 folks seated in the jury box. The real interest was the manhunt and him being on the lam for 18 years. The trial? File under "meh".
Aww buck up, kiddo! if you want drama get on the Snowden is a hero bandwagon!
Sorry, what? I am hip deep in Florida Man and Florida Woman!
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 20:35:26
listen to WTOP on the way home.
there's derecho talk.
Raine on 06/12/2013 20:35:26
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:I have to go fortify the basement windows -- seriously. I'm still trying to dry out the basement from the other day.Quote by TriSec:
I'm going to write a strong letter of protest to Al Gore.
This looks like it could get really ugly here tomorrow.
Topper says we're under flood watch till 10PM tomorrow night
there's derecho talk.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 20:36:41
I think it will be -- you'll most likely find kindred spirits in them.
Raine on 06/12/2013 20:36:41
Quote by clintster:Quote by BobR:
btw Clinster - our neighbor will be your neighbor in a couple months, if you're still there. He got a teaching position at Appalachian State and will be moving there in a couple months.
I'll see about getting contact deets...
That'd be great.
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 20:38:47
You've recovered from the Whitey Bulger dearth nicely. SQUIRREL!
Raine on 06/12/2013 20:38:47
Quote by Mondobubba:
Sorry, what? I am hip deep in Florida Man and Florida Woman!
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:51:42
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:51:42
Comment by wickedpam on 06/12/2013 20:52:07
yeah, they started that this morning
wickedpam on 06/12/2013 20:52:07
Quote by Raine:listen to WTOP on the way home.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:I have to go fortify the basement windows -- seriously. I'm still trying to dry out the basement from the other day.Quote by TriSec:
I'm going to write a strong letter of protest to Al Gore.
This looks like it could get really ugly here tomorrow.
Topper says we're under flood watch till 10PM tomorrow night
there's derecho talk.
yeah, they started that this morning
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:54:45
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:54:45
Florida Woman Arrested For Staging Kid-Fights In Her Front Yard, Loses Job As School Bus Driver
@FloridaWoman is even better (weirder) than @FloridaMan
@FloridaWoman is even better (weirder) than @FloridaMan
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:57:50
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 20:57:50
Buttocks Baring Florida Woman Jailed After Papaya Attack
Records didn't state whether the ex-boyfriend received "birthday sex" from Wasden.
Records did indicate the ex-boyfriend's 58th birthday was shortly before the papaya throwing/buttocks baring brouhaha.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 21:11:32
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 21:11:32
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 21:28:58
Mondobubba on 06/12/2013 21:28:58
Florida Man Defends Erotic Essay About Teacher, Sues School That Expelled Him For Violating First Amendment Rights
This one is both hilarious and creepy.
"There's no way I'll concentrate in class especially with that sexy little mole on her upper lip beckoning with every accented word," Corlett wrote."
This one is both hilarious and creepy.
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 21:37:58
clintster on 06/12/2013 21:37:58
So, I'm not listening (just got back from town). Has Randi gone Truther, as I was assured she would today?
Comment by Raine on 06/12/2013 21:56:15
Did JJ tell you that?
Raine on 06/12/2013 21:56:15
Quote by clintster:
So, I'm not listening (just got back from town). Has Randi gone Truther, as I was assured she would today?
Did JJ tell you that?
Comment by clintster on 06/12/2013 22:21:21
He had made some post about it. Apparently, he's also a shark who has defeated the non-believers with his dizzying intellect.
clintster on 06/12/2013 22:21:21
Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:
So, I'm not listening (just got back from town). Has Randi gone Truther, as I was assured she would today?
Did JJ tell you that?
He had made some post about it. Apparently, he's also a shark who has defeated the non-believers with his dizzying intellect.
Comment by clintster on 06/13/2013 00:04:37
clintster on 06/13/2013 00:04:37
Comment by TriSec on 06/13/2013 01:20:43
TriSec on 06/13/2013 01:20:43
Last "official" meeting of the season tonight. We've got a summer camp meeting, then one more for the Nantucket trip, and we're off until September.
I must say, this has been one of the most un-fulfilling seasons I've ever spent in uniform.
I must say, this has been one of the most un-fulfilling seasons I've ever spent in uniform.
Comment by clintster on 06/13/2013 02:34:45
clintster on 06/13/2013 02:34:45
Free hockey coming up?
Comment by Raine on 06/13/2013 02:57:18
OT!
Raine on 06/13/2013 02:57:18
Quote by clintster:
Free hockey coming up?
Comment by Raine on 06/13/2013 03:07:55
Did I mention I am now married to an elected official?
you may now refer to me as FLOTDCHB --
Raine on 06/13/2013 03:07:55
Quote by TriSec:
Last "official" meeting of the season tonight. We've got a summer camp meeting, then one more for the Nantucket trip, and we're off until September.
I must say, this has been one of the most un-fulfilling seasons I've ever spent in uniform.
you may now refer to me as FLOTDCHB --
Comment by clintster on 06/13/2013 04:15:17
clintster on 06/13/2013 04:15:17
Double, maybe triple OT? Good thing I'm unemployed.
Comment by Raine on 06/13/2013 04:20:00
Bobber gave up -- went to bed.
I too have no employ... Come onChicago! Team that wins!
Raine on 06/13/2013 04:20:00
Quote by clintster:
Double, maybe triple OT? Good thing I'm unemployed.
Bobber gave up -- went to bed. I too have no employ... Come on
Comment by clintster on 06/13/2013 04:32:33
Both these goalies are hardcore! I'll be happy for whoever finishes it.
clintster on 06/13/2013 04:32:33
Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:
Double, maybe triple OT? Good thing I'm unemployed.
I too have no employ... Come onChicago! Team that wins!
Both these goalies are hardcore! I'll be happy for whoever finishes it.
Comment by livingonli on 06/13/2013 04:40:29
livingonli on 06/13/2013 04:40:29
Glad to know I'm not the only one still up and I am off tonight.
Comment by clintster on 06/13/2013 05:03:30
clintster on 06/13/2013 05:03:30
Oh thank God! Off to bed now.