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Time to Get Serious
Author: BobR    Date: 2015-05-27 10:53:34

On Monday, we had a small neighborhood gathering in the front yard, a sort of "going away party" for our neighbors, combined with Memorial Day. We were cooking burgers and hot dogs and having a good time.

We have a primary coming up in a couple weeks for state office, and one of the candidates happened to campaigning on our street. He stopped by to talk to us, since he had Raine on a list of some sort. He moved on down the street, but left a political discussion in his wake which continued for a few hours. Despite our living in a very "blue" area, our neighbors possess a mixed bag of political viewpoints, which made things lively and interesting. Moderate conservative, libertarian, and liberal among us, we discussed various governmental policy points. I feel lucky that my neighbors - despite disagreeing with me on various political positions - nonetheless approach them intelligently and thoughtfully, and can articulate their positions and how they got there.

One thing that wasn't touched on was Middle East policy, and how we got where we are now, and how to proceed from here. Most anywhere you look, though, the discussions tend to also blur political lines. Going beyond warhawks (and chickenhawks) to staunch anti-war absolutists, there is a huge gray area. Libertarians and some liberals believe we've already spent too much money and too many lives in the Middle East. Others look to the atrocities being committed and are reminded of our non-interventionist delay in joining WWII, and how many millions suffered and died before we helped put an end to it.

It creates several other questions: Should we do something? Can we something (to make things better)? This post covers those questions very well...
There is no doubt that as Robert D. Kaplan wrote at Foreign Policy yesterday, “Middle Eastern chaos demonstrates that the region has still not found a solution to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War I.” He may or may not be right about the need to “bring imperialism back to the Middle East,” but one thing is for certain: the current system is not working.
[..]
David Rothkopf wrote last week at Foreign Policy in criticism of Obama’s alternative to Bush’s foreign policy. Rothkopf, cynically, I think, calls this alternative “Other People’s Armies” (OPA), “encouraging other countries to fight or help fight those conflicts we might have waded into alone or largely alone in the past.”

A better term might be “Other People’s Business.” It is easy for Westerners to talk about the merits of imperialism. Westerners have never been the beneficiaries of other people’s imperialism. We have dished it out for centuries. Middle Easterners might feel differently about it. They were certainly eager to shake off the yoke of the Ottoman Empire.

If the West intends to interfere in the Middle East at this point, it must ensure first and foremost that it is on sure footing. In other words, “Why?” To protect Israel, as Republicans claim? Well, Israel is not under attack. When Israel is attacked – if Israel is attacked, we can talk about that.
[..]
To shore up an Iraqi regime which really doesn’t seem to want to defend itself, and worse, has a population that really doesn't want to defend its regime, seems a dubious inducement to intervention. We saw how that sort of deal goes down in South Vietnam.

South Vietnam’s incredibly corrupt and collective shrug to the communist threat was heard loud and clear by Americans. Do we really want to ally ourselves again with people who seem to feel they have no vested interest in the battle, who fight only because we want them to fight? [Is it] the duty of young men and women in America to die for a cause that even Iraqis refuse to die for?

The article is well worth an entire read, I and I recommend you do so.

Regarding Middle East options - like any political discussion - you have to scrape off the surface gloss of partisanship and media hackery to get to the nuances and interwoven consequences of various choices and actions. The Middle East has been a mess for a long time, where tribalism trumps national borders, with oil money only making matters worse. Before we can do anything, we need to understand how we got here, what we realistically can do, what the repercussions might be, and then decide whether it's worth it.

Of course - that goes for most decisions regarding our nation, but I am not hopeful we'll start anytime soon. This is a big one, though, and if we're going to grow more mature in our approach, I certainly hope we start here. This is not one to "dumb down for the masses".
 

15 comments (Latest Comment: 05/28/2015 12:27:54 by Mondobubba)
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Comment by Mondobubba on 05/27/2015 11:58:54
Speaking of the middle east, and it relates to my previous post, how did Qatar win the World Cup in 2022? See below.

Comment by wickedpam on 05/27/2015 12:55:41
Morning

Comment by Raine on 05/27/2015 13:17:38
Excellent blog, Bob.

Comment by wickedpam on 05/27/2015 13:56:20
Holy Crap this Dugger thing is like a spider web of crazy incestuous Arkansas conservatives!

How Hobby Lobby is Mixed up in the Dugger scandel

Comment by Scoopster on 05/27/2015 14:14:18
Mornin' all!

It occurs to me that I haven't set my mid-summer travel plans yet!

Comment by TriSec on 05/27/2015 14:40:38
The Duggars all need to get horrific diseases and expire painfully.

Comment by Mondobubba on 05/27/2015 16:49:32
Comment by Raine on 05/27/2015 17:55:19

Yesterday's Luckovich:

http://assets.amuniversal.com/fd70e240e68c0132e67c005056a9545d


Comment by livingonli on 05/27/2015 18:20:02
Good day, folks. A day off and time to watch some DVR recordings.

Comment by Mondobubba on 05/27/2015 18:29:45
Quote by Raine:

Yesterday's Luckovich:

http://assets.amuniversal.com/fd70e240e68c0132e67c005056a9545d



Mentioned in the article. as is this:



hüskermould @huskermould
@fakedansavage duggary: a frothy mix of molestation, church and bad hairdos
7:14 PM - 26 May 2015


Comment by Raine on 05/27/2015 19:16:10
While we shake our heads at TLC, might I shake my head at MTV?
A D.C. man who appeared in the show 'Catfish' has been arrested for making terror threats against the Metro transit system over the past five months, Metro said.

Jerez Nehemiah Stone-Coleman, also known as Kidd Cole, was arrested by Metro Transit Police Wednesday morning on charges of making terroristic threats against Metro stations, buses and trains in the District area.

Metro Transit Police received a total of eleven calls between December 12, 2014 and May 12, 2015 reporting bomb threats, and/or hostage situations at or directed against Metro stations, trains and buses, officials said. Stone-Coleman would call about destructive devices and acts of violence.

Emergency crews responded to every case, however the threat information made in every call turned out to be false, according to officials.
Ahem…

Catfish:
For some further background on this sociopathological criminal:
To bring you up to speed real quick on Kidd Cole — for anyone who has yet to watch this momentous Catfish episode — he was a whole new breed of Catfish. He was posing as basically a rapper/producer/musician, who claimed to have ties to just about everyone in the music industry, including Kanye West. He was so deep into his hole of lies that he had managed to persuade others to work for him. And, give him money. Maybe that’s why so many Catfish viewers turned against him: it wasn’t just people’s emotions he was messing with, but their jobs and finances too. His Catfish episode also gave us one of the best Catfish moments ever:
Why the hell was this guy on the show at all?

This went WAY beyond so called cat fishing, he was committing acts of fraud and it was documented!




Comment by TriSec on 05/27/2015 19:49:08
So. The Boston Red Sox are 21-26 on this fine day, batting a Mendoza-like .255 as a team.

Chili Davis, who won two rings with the New York Yankees is currently the hitting coach. Coincidence? I DON'T THINK SO!!!

Comment by Scoopster on 05/27/2015 20:02:45
Mentioned this a few weeks back when I heard it on NPR.. Seems like David Brooks is having a personal crisis - as in he realized that he's a jackass pundit and people don't like him for it!

I would go into a rant here, but it's not even worth it.

Comment by Mondobubba on 05/28/2015 12:27:54
Quote by TriSec:
So. The Boston Red Sox are 21-26 on this fine day, batting a Mendoza-like .255 as a team.

Chili Davis, who won two rings with the New York Yankees is currently the hitting coach. Coincidence? I DON'T THINK SO!!!


That is 55 points above the Mendoza line, Sparky. Mario Mendoza's lifetime average was .215. The AL average is currently .251. So, the Red Sox who's team average is four points above the league is cause for your mithering? This is not based in cold statistics, Sparky.