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What are we worth?
Author: BobR Date: 07/11/2008 12:12:23

What is a person worth? Can you put a dollar figure on that? Should you put a dollar figure on that? Who decides and what criteria do they use?

Amid all the hoopla yesterday, a seemingly innocuous story slid beneath the radar. The more I read of it, however, the more it bothered me. Apparently, the EPA does just that, and recently devalued what a human life is worth:

It's not just the American dollar that's losing value. A government agency has decided that an American life isn't worth what it used to be.

The "value of a statistical life" is $6.9 million in today's dollars, the Environmental Protection Agency reckoned in May — a drop of nearly $1 million from just five years ago.

The Associated Press discovered the change after a review of cost-benefit analyses over more than a dozen years.

Though it may seem like a harmless bureaucratic recalculation, the devaluation has real consequences.

When drawing up regulations, government agencies put a value on human life and then weigh the costs versus the lifesaving benefits of a proposed rule. The less a life is worth to the government, the less the need for a regulation, such as tighter restrictions on pollution.

Consider, for example, a hypothetical regulation that costs $18 billion to enforce but will prevent 2,500 deaths. At $7.8 million per person (the old figure), the lifesaving benefits outweigh the costs. But at $6.9 million per person, the rule costs more than the lives it saves, so it may not be adopted.

I don't know what's more disturbing:

That the EPA is doing the calculations at all

That the value has dropped

That the value affects whether regulations are even enacted

Sure I know about Actuarial Science and how private insurance companies use it to set insurance premium numbers. But a government agency doing a calculation to determine whether a regulation that may save lives is "worth it"? It boggles the mind.

The article goes on to provide a little detail as to how the value is calculated, and why it's gone down:

... economists calculate the value based on what people are willing to pay to avoid certain risks, and on how much extra employers pay their workers to take on additional risks. Most of the data is drawn from payroll statistics; some comes from opinion surveys. According to the EPA, people shouldn't think of the number as a price tag on a life.

The EPA made the changes in two steps. First, in 2004, the agency cut the estimated value of a life by 8 percent. Then, in a rule governing train and boat air pollution this May, the agency took away the normal adjustment for one year's inflation. Between the two changes, the value of a life fell 11 percent, based on today's dollar

So the EPA thinks we shouldn't think of it as a "price tag on a life", yet that's exactly what it is. And apparently - unlike everything else - the price is not inflation-adjusted.

The other notable factoid is that the government's value is keyed to employers' perceptions as to their employees' worth. To me, this seems like yet another step towards Corporatism. (Side Note: If the latest G8 Summit is any indication, rampant corporatism and its control over environmental protections is a worldwide problem.)

But hey - at least we're worth more than people in other countries, right? If we divide the cost of the war in Iraq by the number of Iraqis killed in the conflict, we can determine that an Iraqi life is worth about $43K.

Wow - that's practically a steal.

276 comments (Latest Comment: 07/12/2008 13:34:36 by m-hadley)
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Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 12:28:34

We do better and are of more value in euro's.

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 12:32:59

Morning

:hug:

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 12:52:00

Good Morning!

Comment by

BobR on 07/11/2008 12:58:30

guten morgen... :coffee:

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 13:04:00

6.9 million, eh?

Here's a thought. At birth, everyone gets 6.9 million dollars. When you spend the last one, you're hauled off and shot. No exceptions.

Anyway, I digress.

Morning, comrades!

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 13:09:41

I hear you can cash out in small amounts by giving blood - it might end up a deduction in the end but . . . .

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 13:11:00

Good morning all! Happy Frydee!

What does one wear to a rendition? Hmmmm:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q151/velveeta_jones/Misc%20photos/snorkelguy.jpg

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 13:12:08

Wow, BobR... sad, and disturbing story today. :(

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 13:14:51

Quote by velveeta jones:

Good morning all! Happy Frydee!

What does one wear to a rendition? Hmmmm:

hey know...

I would LOVE to wear that!

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 13:19:35

Quote by velveeta jones:

Good morning all! Happy Frydee!

What does one wear to a rendition? Hmmmm:

How did you'all get a picture of me?

:lol:

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 13:20:04

Ummmm - yeah - not going to get into the whole "speak the language of the country you live in" discussion.....

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 13:20:57

So has anyone figured out where KKKarl is???

Comment by

Scoopster on 07/11/2008 13:22:22

Sound the heralds! It is he who is I am! :banana:

And I bring "grave news" today..

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 13:26:03

Quote by Scoopster:

Sound the heralds! It is he who is I am! :banana:

And I bring "grave news" today..

Morbid humor. . .

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 13:28:06

Quote by Scoopster:

Sound the heralds! It is he who is I am! :banana:

And I bring "grave news" today..

:blink: YIKES. Seems rather sad to have to actually make a LAW banning sex with corpse's.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 13:28:19

Quote by capt:

Quote by Scoopster:

Sound the heralds! It is he who is I am! :banana:

And I bring "grave news" today..

Morbid humor. . .

Just in time for the RNC convention... Awww... bummer :kickcan:

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 13:30:11

Quote by velveeta jones:

Quote by Scoopster:

Sound the heralds! It is he who is I am! :banana:

And I bring "grave news" today..

:blink: YIKES. Seems rather sad to have to actually make a LAW banning sex with corpse's.

Especially for necrophiliacs!!

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 13:32:13

Quote by TriSec:

6.9 million, eh?

Here's a thought. At birth, everyone gets 6.9 million dollars. When you spend the last one, you're hauled off and shot. No exceptions.

Anyway, I digress.

Morning, comrades!

That is a fantastic idea!

Can we institute that plan retroactively?

I would gladly accept $11,308 less than 6.9 M. . . a dollar for every day I have been alive thus far.

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 13:32:30

Trouble for McCain in his own backyard

Comment by

Scoopster on 07/11/2008 13:32:40

Quote by Raine:

Quote by capt:

Quote by Scoopster:

Sound the heralds! It is he who is I am! :banana:

And I bring "grave news" today..

Morbid humor. . .
Just in time for the RNC convention... Awww... bummer :kickcan:

Ah this wouldn't affect them too much.. Reagan's buried in California.

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 13:34:41

Quote by TriSec:

Trouble for McCain in his own backyard

Ahhhh, poor Johnny!

:D

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 13:35:38

Quote by starling310:

Quote by TriSec:

6.9 million, eh?

Here's a thought. At birth, everyone gets 6.9 million dollars. When you spend the last one, you're hauled off and shot. No exceptions.

Anyway, I digress.

Morning, comrades!

That is a fantastic idea!

Can we institute that plan retroactively?

I would gladly accept $11,308 less than 6.9 M. . . a dollar for every day I have been alive thus far.

6.9 mill won't last that long. I suspect some people will run to Santuary.

Comment by

BobR on 07/11/2008 13:36:02

Quote by capt:

Especially for necrophiliacs!!

I love the dead before they rise,

No farewells, no goodbyes,

I never even knew your now rotting face.

While friends and lovers mourn your silly grave,

I have other uses for you, darling.

I love the dead before they're cold,

Their blueing flesh for me to hold,

Cadaver eyes upon me see....

nothing.

-Alice Cooper

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 13:39:56

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by starling310:

Quote by TriSec:

6.9 million, eh?

Here's a thought. At birth, everyone gets 6.9 million dollars. When you spend the last one, you're hauled off and shot. No exceptions.

Anyway, I digress.

Morning, comrades!

That is a fantastic idea!

Can we institute that plan retroactively?

I would gladly accept $11,308 less than 6.9 M. . . a dollar for every day I have been alive thus far.

6.9 mill won't last that long. I suspect some people will run to Santuary.

I think I could make 6.9 Million go a looooooooooooooooooooooooooo. . . . . . . *gasp* . . . ooooooooooooooooong way.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 13:43:09

Bay is starting to sound like a Football coach.

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 13:43:49

Quote by starling310:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by starling310:

Quote by TriSec:

6.9 million, eh?

Here's a thought. At birth, everyone gets 6.9 million dollars. When you spend the last one, you're hauled off and shot. No exceptions.

Anyway, I digress.

Morning, comrades!

That is a fantastic idea!

Can we institute that plan retroactively?

I would gladly accept $11,308 less than 6.9 M. . . a dollar for every day I have been alive thus far.

6.9 mill won't last that long. I suspect some people will run to Santuary.

I think I could make 6.9 Million go a looooooooooooooooooooooooooo. . . . . . . *gasp* . . . ooooooooooooooooong way.

I could too. but there are people who are gonna spend it before they get out of their teens and gonna have to be draged to Carosel but by the Sandmen

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 13:44:24

I think he put on the Flag Pin because he got sick of Clap Traps like you, Sean, making a giant spectacle about it!

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 13:45:27

pssst. John McCain still doesn't wear a flag pin...

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 13:45:58

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by starling310:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by starling310:

Quote by TriSec:

6.9 million, eh?

Here's a thought. At birth, everyone gets 6.9 million dollars. When you spend the last one, you're hauled off and shot. No exceptions.

Anyway, I digress.

Morning, comrades!

That is a fantastic idea!

Can we institute that plan retroactively?

I would gladly accept $11,308 less than 6.9 M. . . a dollar for every day I have been alive thus far.

6.9 mill won't last that long. I suspect some people will run to Santuary.

I think I could make 6.9 Million go a looooooooooooooooooooooooooo. . . . . . . *gasp* . . . ooooooooooooooooong way.

I could too. but there are people who are gonna spend it before they get out of their teens and gonna have to be draged to Carosel but by the Sandmen

So be it.

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 13:47:38

Good morning all.

I wouldn't mind $6.9 million. At this point in my life, it would help a hell of a lot.

Just a quick hit and run since I have to drop my car off today to replace the mirror. Most of the door damage probably won't get fixed because it will cost too much and the money would be better spent on another car. I will talk to you all when I get back.

Comment by

Shane-O on 07/11/2008 13:51:07

Uh-oh - Chris got

on Steph's

...

What a mess

Comment by

Scoopster on 07/11/2008 13:51:46

Brilliant!

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/pfizer_mccain_billboard.jpg

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 13:52:24

Yes really... kkkarl is no en casa... I have been looking for ANYONE besides Raw Story that is reporting it.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 13:56:13

An old friend of mine used to say:

"I know it is gay to actually suck another guy - but does it apply if you just roll it around in your mouth a little?"

*skates off to the penalty box*

Comment by

BobR on 07/11/2008 13:57:56

What's the point of creating a dish too spicy hot to even eat?

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 13:59:05

I have a Figment - see he looks nothing like gas prices.

http://int.cysd.k12.pa.us/graybill/Fantasy/figment.gif

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:01:31

Quote by capt:

An old friend of mine used to say:

"I know it is gay to actually suck another guy - but does it apply if you just roll it around in your mouth a little?"

*skates off to the penalty box*

Oh dear. . .

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 14:02:11

Quote by capt:

An old friend of mine used to say:

"I know it is gay to actually suck another guy - but does it apply if you just roll it around in your mouth a little?"

*skates off to the penalty box*

Oh dear............

You'll be there awhile for that comment.

That's as bad as my gay boy friends t-shirt that sez: "Does this dick in my mouth make me look gay?"

:lol:

Oops........... (off I go to join him)

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 14:05:14

Quote by velveeta jones:

Quote by capt:

An old friend of mine used to say:

"I know it is gay to actually suck another guy - but does it apply if you just roll it around in your mouth a little?"

*skates off to the penalty box*

Oh dear............

You'll be there awhile for that comment.

That's as bad as my gay boy friends t-shirt that sez: "Does this dick in my mouth make me look gay?"

:lol:

Oops........... (off I go to join him)

I'm making some coffee - (senseo) Would you like Sumatra or Dark roast? The penalty box is going to get more comfortable. I'm there often enough to decorate a little. Here's a pillow to sit on.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:09:01

It's an elaborate plan by the guy who owns the radio station to kill Momma for the insurance money.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:10:15

Momma driving a bus!!!

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 14:11:10

Le Yikes!!

I wonder how those kids turned out!

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 14:12:26

Quote by velveeta jones:

Le Yikes!! I wonder how those kids turned out!

Sadly, badly I fear . . .

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 14:12:32

Yeah!

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 14:12:47

Quote by capt:

Quote by velveeta jones:

Quote by capt:

An old friend of mine used to say:

"I know it is gay to actually suck another guy - but does it apply if you just roll it around in your mouth a little?"

*skates off to the penalty box*

Oh dear............

You'll be there awhile for that comment.

That's as bad as my gay boy friends t-shirt that sez: "Does this dick in my mouth make me look gay?"

:lol:

Oops........... (off I go to join him)

I'm making some coffee - (senseo) Would you like Sumatra or Dark roast? The penalty box is going to get more comfortable. I'm there often enough to decorate a little. Here's a pillow to sit on.

thank capt! My Aunt Azalea has sent us some magazines to decorate the coffee table! I'll have the dark roast, please. Hm, cozy in here.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:12:53

WOOHOO!!!

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 14:13:09

:rofl:

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:13:30

MGM!!!

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 14:13:43

4F & MGM!

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 14:13:53

:clap:

SHANE-O.

I'm proud to know ya! (Well, sorta "know" ya).

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:13:54

YAY!!!

F4 got a production!!!

Comment by

BobR on 07/11/2008 14:16:10

That was too funny... :rofl:

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 14:16:32

Quote by BobR:

What's the point of creating a dish too spicy hot to even eat?

Well, I had some 357 magnum on our routine hamburger and rice dish last night....(357,000 scovilles). I do know of some peppers, if not sauce, that is rated at one million.

The 357 is fairly extreme, don't know if I'd try that curry...

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 14:16:57

Are we sure he's not gay?

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:16:58

Oh my God....Rush Limbaugh is a Old Gay Man.

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 14:17:19

Rush sounds like a fancy nancy, don't he?

Comment by

Shane-O on 07/11/2008 14:20:04

Rush Limbaugh: "I Can't Believe Its Not Klass"

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 14:21:46

Burgess Meredith :

"He a bum, a bum I tell ya!"

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:21:50

Oh yay.

Cow Farts. They are almost the worst farts of all.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:21:55

Quote by velveeta jones:

Rush sounds like a fancy nancy, don't he?

Uck...his house sounds so gaudy.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:22:36

Woops. got stuck in a Random™

loop.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 14:23:26

Quote by Raine:

Oh yay.

Cow Farts. They are almost the worst farts of all.

Or the best depending on your personal taste in farts . . .

(I used to live in Dairy Valley - the smell of cow farts was the smell of home)

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:24:21

Becuause I love this one!

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 14:24:52

Rush has a full sized statue of Barack as his lawn jockey . . .

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 14:25:59

Rush lives in a condo in Palm Beach, dammit! I know where it is. (Royal Ponciana Way)

And regarding his plane...it's not new.

The Gulfstream V had a limited run of 191 units in the late 1990s. It's no longer in production.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Gulfstream_V_NASA.jpg

All the cool kids are flying the Citation X...and with the Concorde retired, that's the fastest civilian aircraft in production. (.92 mach)

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:26:26

Quote by Raine:

Becuause I love this one!

:fbump:

Comment by

Shane-O on 07/11/2008 14:27:22

Capt - I got your PM. Great minds?

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:27:44

Quote by capt:

Quote by Raine:

Oh yay.

Cow Farts. They are almost the worst farts of all.

Or the best depending on your personal taste in farts . . .

(I used to live in Dairy Valley - the smell of cow farts was the smell of home)

Fair enough, I can understand that. Having grown up in the hudson Valley, smell of apples --- especially in the fall, after they fell off the tree and started to decompose... reminds me of home.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:30:03

Get awffa my back!

Shane-O that makes me LOL more and more each time.

I am actually walking around the house doing the Countess... (poor BobR)

Comment by

Shane-O on 07/11/2008 14:32:02

Quote by Raine:

Get awffa my back!

Shane-O that makes me LOL more and more each time.

I am actually walking around the house doing the Countess... (poor BobR)

Poor nothin! That makes BobR a Count!!

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 14:32:07

Ok, it's not Rush's house...but check out Whitehall.

This mansion set the standard for all to follow that were built on Palm Beach. And I'll point out that the "Kennedy Compound" on the north end of the island was a rude hut by comparison. (long since sold by the family.)

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:34:56

I seriously think the Republicans want to kill the wildlife.

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 14:35:53

"Home" smell for me would be that icky, muddy, vaguely smells of dead fish 'low-tide' smell.

I grew up in Saugus (MA), which up until the late 1980s was the home of the largest lobster fleet on the East Coast. It killed me to move "inland" when we got married...

Low Tide meant time to dig clams, too...

http://www.saugus.net/Photos/images/fleet.jpg

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:35:58

The American People can bring bills to the Floor?

:: frantically scribbles drafts of bills ::

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:36:16

Anyone see Clintster this morning?

And what abot the fair and loverly m-faye?

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 14:36:44

Quote by starling310:

The American People can bring bills to the Floor?

:: frantically scribbles drafts of bills ::

psst - don't use the crayons ;)

Comment by

Shane-O on 07/11/2008 14:37:35

Republican Repetition - Bingo!

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:37:42

Quote by Shane-O:

Quote by Raine:

Get awffa my back!

Shane-O that makes me LOL more and more each time.

I am actually walking around the house doing the Countess... (poor BobR)
Poor nothin! That makes BobR a Count!!

:unsure: I did not see that *o* at first...

:rofl:

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:37:46

1 minute message sessions?

Is that like the "1 minute Hate?"

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:38:58

Quote by starling310:

I seriously think the Republicans want to kill the wildlife.

Well... look at the Polar bear.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:39:42

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by starling310:

The American People can bring bills to the Floor?

:: frantically scribbles drafts of bills ::

psst - don't use the crayons ;)

:: places crayon aside ::

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 14:40:24

Oh, I forgot campfires...

I spent a good deal of my formative years in the field doing some Scout thing or another...burning wood is very comforting to me. And you've not been camping unless you smell like smoke, btw.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:41:51

In my opinion ( disclaimer : I am not a scientist ) the only alternative energy that seems fool-proof is Solar. It doesn't take anything from the land and no one can claim ownership of the Sun.

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 14:43:03

:modbat:

It's pronounced "Frap", Chris. Jeez, everyone in New England knows that!

mmmm.....Frappes.....

:drool:

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 14:43:35

Quote by Shane-O:

Capt - I got your PM. Great minds?

*dancing*

I LOVE IT!

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 14:44:25

Quote by starling310:

In my opinion ( disclaimer : I am not a scientist ) the only alternative energy that seems fool-proof is Solar. It doesn't take anything from the land and no one can claim ownership of the Sun.

I own the sun, but I always share - no charge.

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 14:44:43

Quote by starling310:

In my opinion ( disclaimer : I am not a scientist ) the only alternative energy that seems fool-proof is Solar. It doesn't take anything from the land and no one can claim ownership of the Sun.

Rivers, too. Look around New England in particular, how many of them were dammed up for the textile industry? How many of those dams are still there?

Drop a turbine in the old sluiceway, and let's generate some electricity!

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 14:45:51

just because! :peace:

Comment by

BobR on 07/11/2008 14:47:52

Quote by TriSec:

"Home" smell for me would be that icky, muddy, vaguely smells of dead fish 'low-tide' smell.

I grew up in Saugus (MA), which up until the late 1980s was the home of the largest lobster fleet on the East Coast. It killed me to move "inland" when we got married...

Low Tide meant time to dig clams, too...

I love that vaguely sulfurous smell of the salt marshes on the coast of the Carolinas. It reminds me of swimming in the ocean, lying in the sun, eating seafood, and NOT being at work.

My "comfort" smell though might be the smell of a carpet of pine needles in the woods. As a child I spent summers in a small cottage deep in the Adirondacks, swimming during the day, listening to the radio and playing cards and board games at night... That smell was all around us.

For the same reason I love thunderstorms. We used to sit there with the windows open feeling the cooling breeze and listening to the rain on the roof and the thunder in the clouds as the flashes threw shadows of tall pines against the walls...

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:48:22

Neil Boortz....10 bucks says he becomes a close talker after 2 drinks.

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 14:49:17

Quote by starling310:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by starling310:

The American People can bring bills to the Floor?

:: frantically scribbles drafts of bills ::

psst - don't use the crayons ;)

:: places crayon aside ::

Use these instead

http://www.crayola.com/products/media/large/55-0007.jpg

You get prettier colors. :p

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 14:50:30

I think we need mini-DJ Steph

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 14:51:55

Quote by starling310:

Neil Boortz....10 bucks says he becomes a close talker after 2 drinks.

Okay great Seinfeld reference but EWWW!

Neil is so creepy . .

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:51:59

I just checked my email, and Faye

is on the road again! She says hello and she will see us as soon as she can get online!

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:53:57

capt, you feeling at home?

Comment by

Shane-O on 07/11/2008 14:54:46

Raine - sent a PM (damn, I've lousy with them around here over the last 24 hours - I'll knock it off) - with two photos that might be funny together. I don't know how to use the 4F photobucket however :(

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 14:56:34

Wow! Obama sounds like a real downer................

:rofl: *snort* :rofl:

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 14:56:56

developing an Electric Car?

You mean like this??

http://www.carsareevil.com/images/gm_ev1.jpg

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 14:57:25

Quote by Raine:

capt, you feeling at home?

Um, maybe - I am still in the penalty box so it serves my agorophobia . . (is that a fainting couch?)

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:58:16

Dr. No? McCain is Dr. Evil...

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa213/FourFreedoms/dr_McEvil.jpg

Comment by

velveeta jones on 07/11/2008 14:59:11

ah, comfort smells? Tobacco curing/burning in the cig factories.......... I live in VA and NC ya know.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 14:59:39

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa213/FourFreedoms/Flea.gif

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 15:00:31

Toyota to build new Prius in Mississippi in 2010, trucks to stop for 3 months

Jobs and hybrids in the south? It is all good news, eh?

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 15:03:54

Quote by Shane-O:

Raine - sent a PM (damn, I've lousy with them around here over the last 24 hours - I'll knock it off) - with two photos that might be funny together. I don't know how to use the 4F photobucket however :(

you got it! ---

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 15:04:22

Comfort smells?

Bacon and eggs - toast and butter. Always brings back fond memories of weekends when I was a kid.

Comment by

Shane-O on 07/11/2008 15:11:11

I guess Ozzy is still passed out this early in the a.m....

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 15:11:53

Favorite smells - fresh air in the face, wind in the hair and someone behind me yelling "stop thief!"

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 15:11:56

From Shane-O...

Separated at Birth?

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa213/FourFreedoms/3abb5465.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa213/FourFreedoms/2f29e59c.jpg

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 15:12:42

Quote by capt:

Comfort smells?

Bacon and eggs - toast and butter. Always brings back fond memories of weekends when I was a kid.

Weirdly enough one of mine is when it's humid out and it rains in a heavily wooded area - it has kinda a think decaying, mossy scent.

That and I love the smell of coconut oil

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 15:13:58

SBD bovinity!

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 15:14:14

Oh Momma....Bill-O's tongue talent has got nothing on a :: jessie helms ::

Leeeesbian

:: skating ::

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 15:14:49

to the penalty box.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 15:15:11

This morning the smell of desert sage was strong after a hard rain.

I like that.

Mountains are the place I feel most at home and the air up there is always good.

The fresh clean air after a big snow storm is one of my fav's.

Comment by

Scoopster on 07/11/2008 15:16:34

Wait a sec did someone say mgm was here?!

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 15:16:56

Oh good. Maybe Michael and NKOTB will burn each other out in a huge, subsurface, magnetic, firestorm.

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 15:17:25

No - MGM sent something in to Steph's show

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 15:23:56

:cry: MGM!!! Maybe he is a lurker... like

STAN! (the Official Lurker of Four Freedoms™ )

HI STAN!!!

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 15:27:10

Mama Mia opens on my birthday!

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 15:29:01

Hey Stan!

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 15:29:28

By momma! love you! travel safe!

Comment by

Shane-O on 07/11/2008 15:29:53

Thank you Raine-O!

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 15:31:22

This morning's good news:

Dow Jones Industrial Average

11,012.61 -216.41 / -1.93%

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 15:34:13

Frangela!

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 15:34:21

Quote by TriSec:

This morning's good news:

Dow Jones Industrial Average

11,012.61 -216.41 / -1.93%

Actually lower than when Bunnypants took (and I mean took) office.

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 15:37:18

Yeah the baby sitters are here!

Comment by

Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 15:37:52

Quote by TriSec:

This morning's good news:

Dow Jones Industrial Average

11,012.61 -216.41 / -1.93%

Below 11,000 now just saw it on the MSNBC mosheen.

Oh the hot teacher Debra Lefave is out of jail. Lock up your 14 year old sons.

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 15:38:04

LOL - we're doin our homework! :rofl:

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 15:38:05

Momma sounds kinda hot on the phone.

just sayin. . .

Comment by

Shane-O on 07/11/2008 15:38:48

I love Frangela. And I love Momma, of course.

Could it be however, that no matter who you put into the studio with Chris and Jim will automatically be the best radio talk show host(s)?

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 15:39:37

Bloody Mary, Bloody Mary, Bloody Mary

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 15:40:14

Ouiji boards freak me out.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 15:40:32

Quote by Shane-O:

I love Frangela. And I love Momma, of course.

Could it be however, that no matter who you put into the studio with Chris and Jim will automatically be the best radio talk show host(s)?

Maybe the "whole is greater than the sum of the parts?"

Yeah, they all rock!

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 15:42:18

Oh my. Frangela is kind of......grating.

Sorry, gentle listeners. TriSec out! :peace:

Gonna finish Bitches Brew.

(Aside to Raine: I have the 4-CD box set, all the sessions from '69 and '70. It's well worth it to pick up, if you don't have it. Or maybe I can burn you a copy?)

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 15:42:38

Quote by wickedpam:

Ouiji boards freak me out.

Superstition is silly but I see no reason to tempt fate and there are too many thing we know nothing about.

If it is true that everything is all in our heads then anything is possible.

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 15:43:45

Quote by capt:

Quote by TriSec:

This morning's good news:

Dow Jones Industrial Average

11,012.61 -216.41 / -1.93%

Actually lower than when Bunnypants took (and I mean took) office.

Really? wow! And they always point to how well the market is doing, "what weak economy?"

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 15:43:57

Perez - Separated at Birth

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 15:44:06

Quote by Shane-O:

I love Frangela. And I love Momma, of course.

Could it be however, that no matter who you put into the studio with Chris and Jim will automatically be the best radio talk show host(s)?

It's a testament to what a good Producer producerchris is!

And, of course Jim is hands down the best voice monkey.

Comment by

Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 15:45:42

: scanning blog: Comfort smells. Ah yes! For me it is the smell of wood and cigarette smoke in the early evening in a west Pennsylvania camp ground during the annual SCA bash called Pennsic War.. 10,000 people engaged in their passion. Good times!

Comment by

Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 15:47:00

Quote by TriSec:

Oh my. Frangela is kind of......grating.

Sorry, gentle listeners. TriSec out! :peace:

Gonna finish Bitches Brew.

(Aside to Raine: I have the 4-CD box set, all the sessions from '69 and '70. It's well worth it to pick up, if you don't have it. Or maybe I can burn you a copy?)

Ohhh Ohhhh MEEEEEE! Burn me a copy! OHHHHHHHHHHH!

Comment by

Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 15:47:02

Quote by TriSec:

Oh my. Frangela is kind of......grating.

Sorry, gentle listeners. TriSec out! :peace:

Gonna finish Bitches Brew.

(Aside to Raine: I have the 4-CD box set, all the sessions from '69 and '70. It's well worth it to pick up, if you don't have it. Or maybe I can burn you a copy?)

Ohhh Ohhhh MEEEEEE! Burn me a copy! OHHHHHHHHHHH!

Comment by

Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 15:50:10

Quote by starling310:

Quote by Shane-O:

I love Frangela. And I love Momma, of course.

Could it be however, that no matter who you put into the studio with Chris and Jim will automatically be the best radio talk show host(s)?

It's a testament to what a good Producer producerchris is!

And, of course Jim is hands down the best voice monkey.

I've talking to Chris a couple of times on the Facebook mosheen in the early evening, Chris is watching the Hannity and Doormat and then the Big Giant Head. He works from insane o'clock to stupid o'clock to bring us the show every day.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 15:52:51

:: raises hand ::

My name is Terri and I'm a Namby Pamby Peace-nick.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 15:58:12

I loved the Eyes on the Prize series. We watched that in High School.

Comment by

Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 15:59:02

Facecrack down! I can handle it. I CAN HANDLE IT! :paces, frets paper towel in thousands of tiny pieces, sweats:

Comment by

Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 16:05:29

Quote by starling310:

I loved the Eyes on the Prize series. We watched that in High School.

The last good thing that Juan Williams did as journalist. It was before he was blinded by the giant bag of money that FNC gave him to be a house ummm never mind I am venting way to much. :skates to penalty box:

Comment by

clintster on 07/11/2008 16:12:48

Quote by Raine:

Anyone see Clintster this morning?

And what abot the fair and loverly m-faye?

Hey, sorry I'm late. Mrs. C and I went to our son's daycare to sing songs for the kids. One of his classmates just couldn't get enough of "Puff the Magic Dragon".

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 16:15:36

I'm back. Did anyone miss me? :)

Of all things, they had no windows in stock so I have to come back Wednesday to get my passenger mirror replaced. I got an estimate on how much it would cost to fix (but not paint) the doors and it would be between $1300 and $1400 dollars. If I'm able to get salvageable parts I can probably knock it down to a couple of hundred bucks. For a car that's more or less worthless that's a little more than I want. The hopefully good news is that one of the employees at the Saturn shop has a '99 Saturn which if I can scrimp the money together I might be able to get for $1500. With basically all the money I have coming in going right back out in payments that's the tricky part. I sure could use some good luck vibes. The MegaMillions jackpot is $75 million, maybe I should play it this week.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 16:15:51

Quote by clintster:

Quote by Raine:

Anyone see Clintster this morning?

And what abot the fair and loverly m-faye?

Hey, sorry I'm late. Mrs. C and I went to our son's daycare to sing songs for the kids. One of his classmates just couldn't get enough of "Puff the Magic Dragon".

Me too!

Comment by

clintster on 07/11/2008 16:16:52

Did I miss the Shane-O Reese's Cupping of Harriet and the Countess?

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 16:18:17

Quote by livingonli:

I'm back. Did anyone miss me? :)

Of all things, they had no windows in stock so I have to come back Wednesday to get my passenger mirror replaced. I got an estimate on how much it would cost to fix (but not paint) the doors and it would be between $1300 and $1400 dollars. If I'm able to get salvageable parts I can probably knock it down to a couple of hundred bucks. For a car that's more or less worthless that's a little more than I want. The hopefully good news is that one of the employees at the Saturn shop has a '99 Saturn which if I can scrimp the money together I might be able to get for $1500. With basically all the money I have coming in going right back out in payments that's the tricky part. I sure could use some good luck vibes. The MegaMillions jackpot is $75 million, maybe I should play it this week.

Always happy to send

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:hug:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good Luck Vibes!

Comment by

BobR on 07/11/2008 16:19:25

Quote by clintster:

Did I miss the Shane-O Reese's Cupping of Harriet and the Countess?

yes...

Comment by

clintster on 07/11/2008 16:19:53

Quote by clintster:

Did I miss the Shane-O "Reese's Cupping" of Harriet and the Countess?

EDIT: Had to put quotes around the "Reese's Cupping" there, since it just scanned pretty damn awkward otherwise.

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 16:32:45

I missed the 4F and mgm contributions to the show. Looks like I will have to catch up via the Stephcast.

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 16:34:12

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by livingonli:

I'm back. Did anyone miss me? :)

Of all things, they had no windows in stock so I have to come back Wednesday to get my passenger mirror replaced. I got an estimate on how much it would cost to fix (but not paint) the doors and it would be between $1300 and $1400 dollars. If I'm able to get salvageable parts I can probably knock it down to a couple of hundred bucks. For a car that's more or less worthless that's a little more than I want. The hopefully good news is that one of the employees at the Saturn shop has a '99 Saturn which if I can scrimp the money together I might be able to get for $1500. With basically all the money I have coming in going right back out in payments that's the tricky part. I sure could use some good luck vibes. The MegaMillions jackpot is $75 million, maybe I should play it this week.

Always happy to send

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:hug:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good Luck Vibes!

Thanks. I definitely need it.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 16:34:17

liv,

Sending all positive and good vibes your way . .

AND

The Gramm Gaffe: The Real Problem for McCain

At least someone is talking about it - even if the M$M is trying to ignore it. . .

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 16:42:54

The Dow is now down below 11,000

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 16:43:23

In his 1984 Senate campaign in Texas, Gramm allegedly said "Has anyone ever noticed that we live in the only country in the world where all the poor people are fat?" a quote also attributed to Dinesh D'Souza and a favorite of right-wingers leaving comments on Web sites disparaging the American welfare system.

(via Buzzflash)

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 16:45:06

Quote by livingonli:

The Dow is now down below 11,000

Those stimulus checks were suppose to save us until Bush leaves the country - what happened?

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 16:56:00

Quote by capt:

Quote by livingonli:

The Dow is now down below 11,000

Those stimulus checks were suppose to save us until Bush leaves the country - what happened?

The economy is such a wreck thanks to Bush's policies that I don't think any fix-all will be able to prevent the shit from hitting the fan before the election which at least will ensure that people are aware that Bush is the modern Herbert Hoover and don't end up dumping it on Obama.

Comment by

BobR on 07/11/2008 16:57:50

Quote by capt:

The Gramm Gaffe: The Real Problem for McCain

At least someone is talking about it - even if the M$M is trying to ignore it. . .

I love this:

After all, here's a campaign--led by a candidate who once said he didn't know much about the economy--that has one top economic adviser essentially blaming another top economic adviser for economic woes that the second top economic adviser won't acknowledge...

Comment by

Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 16:57:58

Quote by capt:

In his 1984 Senate campaign in Texas, Gramm allegedly said "Has anyone ever noticed that we live in the only country in the world where all the poor people are fat?" a quote also attributed to Dinesh D'Souza and a favorite of right-wingers leaving comments on Web sites disparaging the American welfare system.

(via Buzzflash)

Yeah I love hearing that. I also love explaining that to stretch the diet there is a lot of Kraft Mac & Cheese eaten by poor folks.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 17:00:02

Check it out... The war Hero was marreid to 2 woman at the same time.

McCain, who is about to become the GOP nominee, has made several statements about how he divorced Carol and married Hensley that conflict with the public record.

In his 2002 memoir, "Worth the Fighting For," McCain wrote that he had separated from Carol before he began dating Hensley.

"I spent as much time with Cindy in Washington and Arizona as our jobs would allow," McCain wrote. "I was separated from Carol, but our divorce would not become final until February of 1980."

An examination of court documents tells a different story. McCain did not sue his wife for divorce until Feb. 19, 1980, and he wrote in his court petition that he and his wife had "cohabited" until Jan. 7 of that year -- or for the first nine months of his relationship with Hensley.

Although McCain suggested in his autobiography that months passed between his divorce and remarriage, the divorce was granted April 2, 1980, and he wed Hensley in a private ceremony five weeks later. McCain obtained an Arizona marriage license on March 6, 1980, while still legally married to his first wife.

From the LA Times...

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 17:00:08

Totally off the east wall:

If someone wanted to make a million bucks, they need only come up with an air conditioner (window sized) that comes with and runs off of a solar panel?

Hot bright sunny days . . .

Hmmmmm

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 17:01:57

Problems with the new iPhone!?!? I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 17:02:27

Quote by capt:

Totally off the east wall:

If someone wanted to make a million bucks, they need only come up with an air conditioner (window sized) that comes with and runs off of a solar panel?

Hot bright sunny days . . .

Hmmmmm

Good one.

Get on it Capt!

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 17:02:49

Quote by Raine:

Check it out... The war Hero was marreid to 2 woman at the same time.

McCain, who is about to become the GOP nominee, has made several statements about how he divorced Carol and married Hensley that conflict with the public record.

In his 2002 memoir, "Worth the Fighting For," McCain wrote that he had separated from Carol before he began dating Hensley.

"I spent as much time with Cindy in Washington and Arizona as our jobs would allow," McCain wrote. "I was separated from Carol, but our divorce would not become final until February of 1980."

An examination of court documents tells a different story. McCain did not sue his wife for divorce until Feb. 19, 1980, and he wrote in his court petition that he and his wife had "cohabited" until Jan. 7 of that year -- or for the first nine months of his relationship with Hensley.

Although McCain suggested in his autobiography that months passed between his divorce and remarriage, the divorce was granted April 2, 1980, and he wed Hensley in a private ceremony five weeks later. McCain obtained an Arizona marriage license on March 6, 1980, while still legally married to his first wife.
From the LA Times...

AND THEN THIS:

In Pennsylvania, McCain Tells a New Version of Heroic P.O.W. Story -- Subbing the Pittsburgh Steelers for the Green Bay Packers

How many times will the M$M just pass over the lies calling them "honest mistakes"

I think it is making me bitter (yes and whiny)

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 17:06:45

I am very bitter about the Republicans.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 17:08:47

Quote by livingonli:

I am very bitter about the Republicans.

The truth is - I am no democratic partisan - I am an anti-republican partisan. (and proud of it)

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 17:13:46

Quote by capt:

Quote by livingonli:

I am very bitter about the Republicans.

The truth is - I am no democratic partisan - I am an anti-republican partisan. (and proud of it)

I have had my problems with the Democrats particularly the right-leaning and centrist Blue Dogs and DLCers. At times I do feel they are not left enough for me.

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 17:14:37

Quote by capt:

In his 1984 Senate campaign in Texas, Gramm allegedly said "Has anyone ever noticed that we live in the only country in the world where all the poor people are fat?" a quote also attributed to Dinesh D'Souza and a favorite of right-wingers leaving comments on Web sites disparaging the American welfare system.

(via Buzzflash)

Hey Dippy! (Gramm not capt)

Poor people are fat because

1. The cheapest foods that will feed the most people are the ones that aren't good for you.

2. Poor people can't afford to join a gym

3. Poor people don't have time in their day to "work out" or anything like that cause they are working usually more then 1 job.

4. IF they have insurance it will not pay for weight loss programs unless it's part of an other problem....

and I could probably go on.....

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 17:17:54

Quote by Mondobubba:

Quote by capt:

In his 1984 Senate campaign in Texas, Gramm allegedly said "Has anyone ever noticed that we live in the only country in the world where all the poor people are fat?" a quote also attributed to Dinesh D'Souza and a favorite of right-wingers leaving comments on Web sites disparaging the American welfare system.

(via Buzzflash)

Yeah I love hearing that. I also love explaining that to stretch the diet there is a lot of Kraft Mac & Cheese eaten by poor folks.

I swear do you can have almost a week of meals if you mix ground beef and mac & cheese. I know cause I've had to do it. Also have eaten alot of macaroni and milk, cheap, warm and good thing I like it.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 17:19:28

Quote by livingonli:

Quote by capt:

Quote by livingonli:

I am very bitter about the Republicans.

The truth is - I am no democratic partisan - I am an anti-republican partisan. (and proud of it)

I have had my problems with the Democrats particularly the right-leaning and centrist Blue Dogs and DLCers. At times I do feel they are not left enough for me.

Totally! I agree. The DLC and the DINO's make me mad. They aren't fooling anybody - they are bastard people.

And on the "fat poor people?" I know some poor folks that are not overweight and if someone tries to eat on food stamps - they are lucky not to starve on the three or four bucks a day. UGH!

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 17:34:52

I guess Phil Gramm would be okay with skinny poor people?

He is just such an arse.

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 17:44:42

*non-sequitir*

OK, I think this is all starting to weigh down upon me...

Last night, I was reading some WWII stuff about the Desert War. Everywhere I looked, I saw "Romney".

Maybe I was just tired.

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 17:45:52

Q: When is anti-gay not anti-gay?

A: When it's a Republican.

Comment by

trojanrabbit on 07/11/2008 17:48:05

Hi, everybody.

Can't wait to hear the StephCast today, sounds like a good one.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 17:51:46

Quote by TriSec:

*non-sequitir*

OK, I think this is all starting to weigh down upon me...

Last night, I was reading some WWII stuff about the Desert War. Everywhere I looked, I saw "Romney".

Maybe I was just tired.

Desert Fox versus ClipART politician?

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 17:52:15

Quote by capt:

I guess Phil Gramm would be okay with skinny poor people?

He is just such an arse.

I guess we're supposed to look like the starving Africans that appear in the World Vision ads.

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 17:53:28

Ballot Questions for the Commonwealth this year:

BOSTON

The ballot question proposing to repeal the state income tax will appear on the November ballot as Question 1. Secretary of State William F. Galvin also announced yesterday that a petition making marijuana possession a civil, not criminal, offense will be Question 2, while the third question will be whether to ban dog racing. Galvin, who oversees state elections, has discretion over the order of questions on the ballot. Question 1 would eliminate the state's 5.3 percent income tax, which would cost the state about $12 billion annually. (AP)

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 17:55:02

Quote by TriSec:

Q: When is anti-gay not anti-gay?

A: When it's a Republican.

Again it proves that the most homophobic are usually self-loathing closeted or completely out of touch with themselves.

If irony killed . . . .

Comment by

livingonli on 07/11/2008 17:55:40

Quote by TriSec:

Q: When is anti-gay not anti-gay?

A: When it's a Republican.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 18:01:30

Ambition drove many men to become false; to have one thought locked in the breast, another ready on the tongue.

~ Sallust (86 BC - 34 BC), The War with Catiline

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 18:01:41

The Dow is just fine folks... it's all in your head...

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 18:11:08

DJIA is the new PTSD?

Comment by

Scoopster on 07/11/2008 18:19:44

Woooo Tri do ya think Mass will be #13 to quasi-legalize it?

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 18:23:01

Oh, I hope so.

Not so much for the de-criminalization aspect, but we've got an awful lot of cancer patients around these parts who might have an easier time if they could use it for medicinal purposes.

And it would stick in the right's craw, so all the better. :bong:

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 18:24:13

Quote by capt:

DJIA is the new PTSD?

Post Traumatic Stock Disorder, yes. How much retirement did we all lose today?

meh, at the rate I'm going, I'll retire when they carry me feet-first out of the office...

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 18:35:17

One of the better places for info and support activism for medical marijuana.

MPP

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 19:07:18

Okay, some people in America are Whiners...

Big problems between AT&T and Apple at 3G iPhone launchby Matt Asay

So, after waiting three hours in line at the Apple Store, Apple was unable to activate my iPhone. The reason? There was a "PLU" on my account. Except that when we called AT&T, there isn't a PLU on my account. Verdict? I'm out-of-luck.

What's a PLU? It is basically a corporate discount code which indicates that the user is on a "foundation" account.

In my case, there is no PLU because there is no foundation account. Apple told me I'd have to get the phone at the AT&T store, which was fruitless since AT&T was out of the 3G iPhone by 9:30 AM. I walked over to the AT&T store to ask if I could buy the phone at the Apple Store then walk the two minutes to AT&T to activate it. Nope.

This is one of the clumsiest product launches ever. Apple knows hardware and software - it knows nothing about telecommunications, and the lack of an effective hand-off relationship with AT&T makes for problems like this one. (I wasn't alone in having the PLU problem. There were dozens in the SLC Apple Store who had the same problem, and I've read online that huge numbers of people are having trouble activating their 3G iPhones and getting their iPhones updated to the 2.0 software. While I was in line Apple's activation system went down three times (apparently nationwide).

Apple, you wasted three hours of my time this morning. At the end of it, I have two bureaucrats sitting in your store and in AT&T's telling me that while there's absolutely nothing wrong with my account, I can't get a 3G iPhone. AT&T's system is telling Apple that there's a problem...the same system that the AT&T people looked at and said there's not even the shadow of a problem.

Try again, Apple. For a company that makes as excellent products as you do, the buying experience couldn't be worse.

Apple wasted your time? Nope. YOU wasted your time.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 19:08:22

It's Friday Ya bastahds!

:boobs2:

:boobs2:

:boobs:

:boobs2:

:boobs2::bouncer: :boobs::penis:

:penis::boobs: :bouncer::boobs2:

:boobs2:

:boobs:

:penis::boobs: :penis::boobs2::penis:

:boobs:

:boobs2:

:girlgirlkiss:

:boyboykiss:

:boobs2:

:boobs2:

:boobs:

:boobs2:

:boobs2::bouncer: :boobs::penis:

:penis::boobs: :bouncer::boobs2:

:boobs2:

:boobs:

:penis::boobs: :penis::boobs2::penis:

:boobs:

:boobs2:

Bounce 'em if ya got 'em!!!

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 19:11:07

:sprint:

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 19:11:24

BOUNCE!

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 19:35:37

"TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG FROM CINCPAC ACTION COM THIRD FLEET INFO COMINCH CTF SEVENTY-SEVEN X WHERE IS RPT WHERE IS KARL ROVE RR THE WORLD WONDERS"

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 19:36:47

oops missed the bounce

:boobs2:

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 19:40:37

Randi Randi Randi.

Repeat after me. Sub. SI. Dize....

Subsidise.

Not SubSTidise. :headshake:

Comment by

Scoopster on 07/11/2008 19:46:31

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.. YOU WILL BE IN AWE OF THE CUTENESS

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/Sekkite/CuteIncarnate.jpg

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 19:48:08

:thud: It is REALLY humid outside today.

And the storm clouds are gathering.

Comment by

Scoopster on 07/11/2008 19:48:55

Quote by TriSec:

"TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG FROM CINCPAC ACTION COM THIRD FLEET INFO COMINCH CTF SEVENTY-SEVEN X WHERE IS RPT WHERE IS KARL ROVE RR THE WORLD WONDERS"

Uhh.. he's making high speed passes over air control towers and one admiral's daughter?

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 19:49:30

Oh! Our humidity must have gone South. We finally have a break for the first time in a week. It's hot still, but dry.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 19:54:37

Quote by starling310:

Randi Randi Randi.

Repeat after me. Sub. SI. Dize....

Subsidise.

Not SubSTidise. :headshake:

Don't go all Nookular on her...

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 19:55:42

Oh this Carly Fiorina story is good.

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 19:57:35

Quote by Scoopster:

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.. YOU WILL BE IN AWE OF THE CUTENESS

PUPPY!

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 19:57:38

Quote by Scoopster:

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.. YOU WILL BE IN AWE OF THE CUTENESS

Oh, mah gawd. Whose the widdle puppy? Who's a good boy?

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 19:59:38

Speaking of Puppies - how is your doggy Raine? And of course how is Camile

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 20:02:00

Aw, puppy pictures!

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 20:03:48

Scoop? Is that actually your puppy?

Comment by

BobR on 07/11/2008 20:09:49

Quote by starling310:

Oh! Our humidity must have gone South. We finally have a break for the first time in a week. It's hot still, but dry.

Atlanta weather forecast for the next 2 months: hot & humid, chance of thunderstorms

Comment by

Scoopster on 07/11/2008 20:10:11

Nah I wish.. that lil furball belongs to someone else.

Now this one is.. well not mine but I do live with her (landlord's dog)..:

http://files.dogster.com/images/dogster/breeds/tibetan_terrier.jpg

This is more of a late spring pic too.. atm the poor girl's been shaved down to grey fuzz and cowlicks.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 20:10:40

Kizzy is not amused... she does NOT like Thunderstorms.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 20:11:46

Quote by BobR:

Quote by starling310:

Oh! Our humidity must have gone South. We finally have a break for the first time in a week. It's hot still, but dry.

Atlanta weather forecast for the next 2 months: hot & humid, chance of thunderstorms

It's a gift from Connecticut.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 20:12:22

Quote by BobR:

Quote by starling310:

Oh! Our humidity must have gone South. We finally have a break for the first time in a week. It's hot still, but dry.

Atlanta weather forecast for the next 2 months: hot & humid, chance of thunderstorms

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 20:12:22

Quote by Scoopster:

Nah I wish.. that lil furball belongs to someone else.

Now this one is.. well not mine but I do live with her (landlord's dog)..:

This is more of a late spring pic too.. atm the poor girl's been shaved down to grey fuzz and cowlicks.

Aww, she's sweet.

Comment by

TriSec on 07/11/2008 20:15:38

*snort*

Ah, New England. "We have weather".

Today is supreme around these parts...bright sun, big fluffy cumulus clouds, and dry. But that won't last.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 20:17:00

http://www.pva.org/images/content/pagebuilder/16164.jpg

Presidential candidate Obama to sponsor Cup car at Pocono race

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 20:20:30

Quote by TriSec:

*snort*

Ah, New England. "We have weather".

Today is supreme around these parts...bright sun, big fluffy cumulus clouds, and dry. But that won't last.

We are in our "monsoon season" and that means 20-30% cance of rain. we do get a few storms - still not much in the way of actual rainfall, never enough water in the desert.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 20:26:46

"subSTIdise."

:thud:

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 20:27:33

"But, Randi. I am in my first year of college. I KNOW what I'm talking about."

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 20:35:20

Quote by starling310:

"But, Randi. I am in my first year of college. I KNOW what I'm talking about."

I remember when I knew stuff, way back when. Good times.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 20:40:52

Quote by capt:

Quote by starling310:

"But, Randi. I am in my first year of college. I KNOW what I'm talking about."

I remember when I knew stuff, way back when. Good times.

Totally. Within my first week of college, I knew more than my Professors.

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 20:43:26

K...this lady on with Randi....I can deal with her voice..

:: click ::

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 20:45:43

Quote by capt:

Quote by BobR:

Quote by starling310:

Oh! Our humidity must have gone South. We finally have a break for the first time in a week. It's hot still, but dry.

Atlanta weather forecast for the next 2 months: hot & humid, chance of thunderstorms

Ok, now you are just gloating, dude.

:gloater:

Comment by

Random on 07/11/2008 20:45:58

™

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 20:46:48

caller done. ;)

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 20:48:15

Thanks Raine.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 20:48:47

All hail Random™

™

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 20:49:39

:spit: :rofl:

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 20:51:27

Quote by starling310:

Quote by capt:

Quote by starling310:

"But, Randi. I am in my first year of college. I KNOW what I'm talking about."

I remember when I knew stuff, way back when. Good times.

Totally. Within my first week of college, I knew more than my Professors.

Back when I knew everything the best thing about it was never being wrong and the humility I was able to barely contain over the whole issue.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 20:52:29

Quote by Random:

™

Hola! Que tal?

Comment by

Random on 07/11/2008 20:53:22

Random™ has returned from seeing the Hellboy Movie.

Comment by

wickedpam on 07/11/2008 20:54:48

I want to see that one!

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 20:55:11

Quote by starling310:

Thanks Raine.

It's the least I could do for the woman who invented the Letter *F*. (I btw, invented *U*)

Comment by

Random on 07/11/2008 20:55:48

Quote by Raine:

Quote by Random:

™

Hola! Que tal?

konichiwa.

*bows*

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 20:56:28

Can you sue a co-dependent?

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 20:57:54

Hellboy any good? I heard it's a little sappy?

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 20:58:47

Quote by Raine:

From Shane-O...

Separated at Birth?

In honour of Random™ seeing Hellboy... I thought I would

this.

How was the movie?

Comment by

Random on 07/11/2008 20:59:53

Quote by capt:

Hellboy any good? I heard it's a little sappy?

eh, kinda, but i thought the first one was overly sappy, of what i can remember of the first one. Thankfully, i don't see a need to have seen the first one.

That aside, fun effects, decent story, obvious ending, mostly, and Seth MacFarlan as a german gas thing.

Comment by

Random on 07/11/2008 21:01:03

Quote by Raine:

Quote by Raine:

From Shane-O...

Separated at Birth?

In honour of Random™ seeing Hellboy... I thought I would this.

How was the movie?

*points down* see, there it is.

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 21:02:59

Quote by Random:

Quote by Raine:

Quote by Random:

™

Hola! Que tal?

konichiwa.

*bows*

So gefallen, um Sie zu sehen

Comment by

Random on 07/11/2008 21:04:31

As probably been said, McCain's joke is very funny. In that he's referencing a movie that has almost disappeard from national lexicon, and he can't do a punchline to save his life.

That and I though Obama's Dr. Phil line came a lil flat as well.

Comment by

Random on 07/11/2008 21:06:10

Quote by Raine:

Quote by Random:

Quote by Raine:

Quote by Random:

™

Hola! Que tal?

konichiwa.

*bows*
So gefallen, um Sie zu sehen

...Well...I know what language that's not, but i'd have to guess german.

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 21:06:10

CIC = Commander in Comedy!

Comment by

capt on 07/11/2008 21:08:11

So bitte, zwecks Sie sehen (reverse babel fish)

Comment by

starling310 on 07/11/2008 21:08:52

Quote by Raine:

Quote by starling310:

Thanks Raine.

It's the least I could do for the woman who invented the Letter *F*. (I btw, invented *U*)

OMG...my friend Tim ( my baby daddy ) and I were on a roll the other night. We were doing a schtick for the benefit of our German friend that mocked Americans who think we ( America ) invented everything. It was in the style of "Super fan" so we in thick Chicago accents we went on for a good hour about things Americans invented.

We went completely out of the realm of reality when Tim blurted out "Birds." And, from there it was all over. The crazier thing we could think of, the better.

"Hair.

Fingernails.

The Chinese.

All invented in America."

Comment by

Raine on 07/11/2008 21:41:38

Well ,

know you can add the Letter U. Invented by a German America...

Comment by

Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 21:44:25

Quote by Random:

Random™ has returned from seeing the Hellboy Movie.

So, Hellboy is on the list of good comic book movies, eh Random? : dodges incoming smotting: :rofl:

In other news I start geek school next month. When I finish in about 16 or so weeks, I will be an MS Certified geek! Bout time I did something with my life!

I also got my regular glasses back from the shop. The coating needed to stripped and replaced. So the throbbing eyestrain headache I have will be the last one I get. :metal:

Mondo, out. :heads to dark bedroom to lie down:

Comment by Mondobubba on 07/11/2008 21:46:11
Quote by starling310:

Quote by Raine:

Quote by starling310:

Thanks Raine.

It's the least I could do for the woman who invented the Letter *F*. (I btw, invented *U*)

OMG...my friend Tim ( my baby daddy ) and I were on a roll the other night. We were doing a schtick for the benefit of our German friend that mocked Americans who think we ( America ) invented everything. It was in the style of "Super fan" so we in thick Chicago accents we went on for a good hour about things Americans invented.

We went completely out of the realm of reality when Tim blurted out "Birds." And, from there it was all over. The crazier thing we could think of, the better.

"Hair.

Fingernails.

The Chinese.

All invented in America."

:rofl: :rofl:

Comment by Raine on 07/11/2008 21:51:03
Ok, I have a secret to tell... we are going to the drive in tonite with la Familia de Clintster!

Wall_E and Kung Fu Panda!

At the Starlight...

They are on route... (shhh don't tell Clint that I told y'all... )

Comment by livingonli on 07/11/2008 21:54:17
Time to catch up on the rest of Steph's show that I missed while I was off with the car.

At least it's not as humid so we don't have another rain forecast. I just think I've been feeling sleepy today.

Comment by capt on 07/11/2008 21:54:17
Quote by Raine:

Ok, I have a secret to tell... we are going to the drive in tonite with la Familia de Clintster!

Wall_E and Kung Fu Panda!

At the Starlight...

They are on route... (shhh don't tell Clint that I told y'all... )

You kids have fun, and NO making out!

Well maybe a little if you must!

Comment by livingonli on 07/11/2008 21:58:03
Quote by capt:

Quote by Raine:

Ok, I have a secret to tell... we are going to the drive in tonite with la Familia de Clintster!

Wall_E and Kung Fu Panda!

At the Starlight...

They are on route... (shhh don't tell Clint that I told y'all... )

You kids have fun, and NO making out!

Well maybe a little if you must!

C'mon. What are drive-ins for? ;)

The last one in Long Island closed a few years back.

Comment by livingonli on 07/11/2008 22:00:32
I just got to hear mgm's bit.

Comment by capt on 07/11/2008 22:11:39
mgm is?

Comment by capt on 07/11/2008 22:17:02
AN OPEN LETTER TO MICHELLE OBAMA

Almost as cute as the puppy pictures. . .

Comment by livingonli on 07/11/2008 22:46:13
Quote by capt:

mgm is?

An old friend for some of us from another blog. He comes from Yankton, South Dakota. A few of us have been trying to get him to join the group here but without much success.

Comment by capt on 07/11/2008 22:46:31
New Obama Radio Ad Hits McCain As "Shameful" For "Makin' Stuff Up"

A source sends over a copy of a sharp new radio ad the Obama campaign will release a bit later today responding to this earlier RNC ad claiming Obama will hike taxes.

The Obama ad hammers McCain for the spot, saying the Arizona Senator is "shameful" for "makin' stuff up," and links the mendacity to Bush and Karl Rove. Give it a listen:

Comment by capt on 07/11/2008 22:47:29
Quote by livingonli:

Quote by capt:

mgm is?

An old friend for some of us from another blog. He comes from Yankton, South Dakota. A few of us have been trying to get him to join the group here but without much success.

Cool - and the bit was a call in?

Comment by livingonli on 07/11/2008 23:08:56
Quote by capt:

Quote by livingonli:

Quote by capt:

mgm is?

An old friend for some of us from another blog. He comes from Yankton, South Dakota. A few of us have been trying to get him to join the group here but without much success.

Cool - and the bit was a call in?

He submitted the lying sack of crap jingle in a Mozart version.

Comment by capt on 07/11/2008 23:11:00
Quote by livingonli:

Quote by capt:

Quote by livingonli:

Quote by capt:

mgm is?

An old friend for some of us from another blog. He comes from Yankton, South Dakota. A few of us have been trying to get him to join the group here but without much success.

Cool - and the bit was a call in?

He submitted the lying sack of crap jingle in a Mozart version.

Amazing - so many people with such talent. I am always in awe. (in a good way)

Comment by MMB on 07/12/2008 00:47:11
Congrats Mondo on doing something with your life!! I know how it feels to just waste your life away. In other news I will be going sailing Sat. and spending the night out in the big ocean. Phillip has a very nice vessel. Life is great! ps. the Gen. Lee will not be joining us.

Comment by Random on 07/12/2008 01:10:05
Quote by Mondobubba:

Quote by Random:

Random™ has returned from seeing the Hellboy Movie.

So, Hellboy is on the list of good comic book movies, eh Random? : dodges incoming smotting: :rofl:

Mondo. Random was swayed by your argument yesterday to broaden my horizens. And it was the sequal...not the first one.

Comment by livingonli on 07/12/2008 01:25:04
I've got the Sammy Cam and Doctor Who on.

Comment by livingonli on 07/12/2008 01:27:31
Right now I get 51 HD channels but by August 1st, I will have either 80 or 81 channels (one add is still a question mark).

Comment by Random on 07/12/2008 01:27:52
Quote by livingonli:

I've got the Sammy Cam and Doctor Who on.

I didn't like Midnight so much, but next week is pretty good, but Tennant isn't in it much.

Comment by capt on 07/12/2008 01:41:10
Quote by livingonli:

Right now I get 51 HD channels but by August 1st, I will have either 80 or 81 channels (one add is still a question mark).

We get 194 HD channels (counting the ones I also don't purchase)

Neener neener!

Comment by livingonli on 07/12/2008 01:42:24
I'll be getting Sci-Fi HD starting July 23rd.

Comment by livingonli on 07/12/2008 02:04:32
The local newscasts are already starting the All-Star game hype.

Comment by livingonli on 07/12/2008 02:47:52
Further proof I don't have a life, everyone else is gone.

ShelaghC is over on the Sam Seder blog right now.

Comment by capt on 07/12/2008 02:48:51
I have no life and I have a huge life - it is all relative.

Comment by capt on 07/12/2008 02:53:05
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.

~ Soren Kierkegaard (1813 - 1855)

Comment by livingonli on 07/12/2008 03:18:20
American Life Network is running Batman (the Adam West one) right now to be followed by The Green Hornet.

Comment by capt on 07/12/2008 03:39:58
Kewl!

Batman "in color"!

Comment by BobR on 07/12/2008 03:57:45
Quote by livingonli:

American Life Network is running Batman (the Adam West one) right now to be followed by The Green Hornet.

I loved both of those when I was a kid.

Comment by livingonli on 07/12/2008 04:02:42
Now, they have the color Honeymooners episodes from the 60's (from the Jackie Gleason show) where a different woman played Alice.

BobR, how was movie night?

Comment by Raine on 07/12/2008 04:05:12
Back from the drive in.

I didn't stay for Kung Fu Panda (11:30 pm start??!?!? ) But we saw wall-E. very entertaining an a really great movie for families!

Comment by capt on 07/12/2008 04:10:49
Sweet dreams!

Comment by m-hadley on 07/12/2008 13:34:36
Hiya Kids,

Just checkin' in - we flew to Portland yesterday - the conf (AALL - Am Assoc of Law Libraries) starts today and runs through Tuesday - then a friend/co-worker and I are renting a car and driving to the coast to see my sister and her vintage clothing store "Garbo's". Well fly back to Tulsa from Portland on Sunday, July 20th. More later, gators.

Hope all is well with you all. BTB, a very sobering post, BobR. I think my life is worth about 99cents at this point :(

cheers,

mfaye

:hug:

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What are we worth?
Author: BobR Date: 07/11/2008 12:12:23

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What are we worth? Author: BobR Date: 07/11/2008 12:12:23

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What are we worth?
Author: BobR Date: 07/11/2008 12:12:23