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Call it what it is: Political Assassination
Author: Raine
Date: 01/10/2011 13:32:43
I don't know what to add that hasn't already been said here and elsewhere. This is what I have been so concerned about -- a political assassination. Make no mistake about it, that is just what this is. The murderer said so himself: We can talk about the atmosphere of hatred that has been building Since the 2008 election campaign. At this point, it would be redundant. What bothers me most is the cover the media has given this atmosphere. There is no doubt in my mind that the vile rhetoric was indeed enabled by a media that refused to report on it honestly. It was fanned by pundits who in turn painted it with a special touch of fear infused hate. Hate was enabled because it was a better and more salacious story for viewers. News became twisted and distorted, and people just got angrier and more upset.
BobR wrote about this Saturday evening, Yesterday our own Velveeta Jones was still too stunned to write about this. I wrote of it a number of times in 2009, including here about the murder of a holocaust Museum security guard. . Here, it was regarding regarding the Tennessee Church murderer, Here it was about the rising hatred of the Tea Party. I wrote on the 10th anniversary of the Columbine Massacre that we are numb to violence.
We've had police officers murdered because of the violent rhetoric that people have been spreading, We've had doctors murdered for providing women lifesaving services. At a tea party rally for Rand Paul, a woman had her head stomped on. Tea Partiers were carrying signs saying that the 'Tree of Liberty should be watered with Blood' with guns strapped to their legs. We've seen people fly planes in to a federal building -- that person left behind an anti-government screed as well. We have "Death Panels" that don't exist. Census workers were threatened. Have we forgotten that people were yelling that Obama was a terrorist and that he should be killed at Sarah Palin rallies (while she was John McCain's VP candidate)? We have Tenther's and Birthers -- and what was formerly known as the lunatic fringe seems to have taken a foothold in the Media as well as in elected offices on local and national levels. If people want to believe that this is not part in parcel with the way media -- both opinion and so called reporting -- has been punching this up, then they are deluding themselves. The media LOVED this garbage and people watched like it was some sick and twisted reality show. Instead what we were watching was the rising tide of political extremism that was bound to get more violent.
BobR wrote of violent extremism in our country as well. I think it is worth returning to this entry: Bold-face mine...
There is a pattern here, and I can honestly tell you that this is coming from conservative messaging, from the likes of the usual suspects. The important thing to remember here, is that instability and fear are easy ways to motivate those that are susceptible to falling for what fits the best narrative for them -- much like the conspiracy theorists that BobR wrote of the other day. In this case those that are already mentally unstable may very well be much more easily entranced by listening the the words and hearing the dogwhistle calls to violence that is spewed from conservative pundits and radio hosts.
If you think this weekend was bad, I am telling you this week will be far worse. The usual suspects will be back on the air on all the conservative talk radio shows trying to re-spin this horrible tragedy -- one that they are partially responsible for. One doesn't actually have to pull the trigger to be responsible for creating the atmosphere to make it happen.
This was a political assassination. Just another one in a long list that is a result from violent conservative rhetoric. It's been like watching a slow and steady snuff film. Until people get real media and real news, more people will die.
and 
Raine
Evidence seized from Mr. Loughner’s home, about five miles from the shooting, indicated that he had planned to kill Representative Gabrielle Giffords, Democrat of Arizona, according to documents filed in Federal District Court in Phoenix.
Special Agent Tony M. Taylor Jr. of the F.B.I. said in an affidavit that an envelope found in a safe in the home bore these handwritten words: “I planned ahead,” “My assassination” and “Giffords.”
BobR wrote about this Saturday evening, Yesterday our own Velveeta Jones was still too stunned to write about this. I wrote of it a number of times in 2009, including here about the murder of a holocaust Museum security guard. . Here, it was regarding regarding the Tennessee Church murderer, Here it was about the rising hatred of the Tea Party. I wrote on the 10th anniversary of the Columbine Massacre that we are numb to violence.
Sadly, as our nation is in a very bad state economically, we are seeing more and more desperate people. The hopelessness of the situations they find themselves in coupled with extremist talk from wherever they hear or read it may be driving them to more acts of violence. Instability and fear are easy to manipulate. We are seeing that everyday.
We've had police officers murdered because of the violent rhetoric that people have been spreading, We've had doctors murdered for providing women lifesaving services. At a tea party rally for Rand Paul, a woman had her head stomped on. Tea Partiers were carrying signs saying that the 'Tree of Liberty should be watered with Blood' with guns strapped to their legs. We've seen people fly planes in to a federal building -- that person left behind an anti-government screed as well. We have "Death Panels" that don't exist. Census workers were threatened. Have we forgotten that people were yelling that Obama was a terrorist and that he should be killed at Sarah Palin rallies (while she was John McCain's VP candidate)? We have Tenther's and Birthers -- and what was formerly known as the lunatic fringe seems to have taken a foothold in the Media as well as in elected offices on local and national levels. If people want to believe that this is not part in parcel with the way media -- both opinion and so called reporting -- has been punching this up, then they are deluding themselves. The media LOVED this garbage and people watched like it was some sick and twisted reality show. Instead what we were watching was the rising tide of political extremism that was bound to get more violent.
BobR wrote of violent extremism in our country as well. I think it is worth returning to this entry:
During the interview he described "dualism" as an "us -vs- them" positioning and - when combined with scapegoating and demonizing the "them" - leads to viewing the "them" as less than human and doing the devil's work, appeasing the terrorists, or any other sort of threatening activity. Add to that the immediacy of impending doom and you have added a match to gasoline. This pattern can be easily recognized as the sort of daily fodder trotted out by political pundits, as well as by some religious and political leaders.
He also describes how groups and individuals take those "signals", process them, and then act on them. He breaks them down into 3 groups: Cell, Lone Wolf, and Leaderless Cell.
An example of the Lone Wolf would be the man who walked into the Holocaust Museum and opened fire. They are alone and generally paranoid. The main difference between a Cell and a Leaderless Cell is that a cell is attached to a larger group and gets its "orders" and identifies itself with that larger group. The Leaderless Cell may have once belonged to a larger group, but has split from that group and has no real leadership. It gets it's directives from the propaganda it hears, and feeds on its own internal mob mentality.
So what can be done? The first thing would be stop feeding the beast. How can that be done without suppressing 1st amendment rights? Counter-propaganda would be one way. Cells can be infiltrated, although Lone Wolves cannot. While it may be impossible to prosecute pundits for fanning the flames, they can still be blamed and shamed, and outed when they are passing false information to their listeners.
There is a pattern here, and I can honestly tell you that this is coming from conservative messaging, from the likes of the usual suspects. The important thing to remember here, is that instability and fear are easy ways to motivate those that are susceptible to falling for what fits the best narrative for them -- much like the conspiracy theorists that BobR wrote of the other day. In this case those that are already mentally unstable may very well be much more easily entranced by listening the the words and hearing the dogwhistle calls to violence that is spewed from conservative pundits and radio hosts.
If you think this weekend was bad, I am telling you this week will be far worse. The usual suspects will be back on the air on all the conservative talk radio shows trying to re-spin this horrible tragedy -- one that they are partially responsible for. One doesn't actually have to pull the trigger to be responsible for creating the atmosphere to make it happen.
This was a political assassination. Just another one in a long list that is a result from violent conservative rhetoric. It's been like watching a slow and steady snuff film. Until people get real media and real news, more people will die.
and Raine
Comments:
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Comment by 
TriSec on 01/10/2011 13:46:19
TriSec on 01/10/2011 13:46:19
Morning, folks.
Comment by 
wickedpam on 01/10/2011 14:07:31
wickedpam on 01/10/2011 14:07:31
Morning 
We've been on the run this weekend so I've only heard bits and pieces of the news from AZ. At this point I would like hear how the CongressWoman is doing - but I I hear is about the shooter. We all know what he is but I would think the more important thing is to know about the victims.
We've been on the run this weekend so I've only heard bits and pieces of the news from AZ. At this point I would like hear how the CongressWoman is doing - but I I hear is about the shooter. We all know what he is but I would think the more important thing is to know about the victims.
Comment by 
Raine on 01/10/2011 14:09:53
Momma has me going again.
Raine on 01/10/2011 14:09:53
Momma has me going again.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 14:21:54
Raine on 01/10/2011 14:21:54
I'm so disgusted at this entire thing.
Comment by TriSec on 01/10/2011 14:32:57
TriSec on 01/10/2011 14:32:57
I think I'm more sad that when I found out about it Saturday evening, the first place I went was online to BBC World Service. I didn't listen to any US coverage about it at all.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 14:44:47
Raine on 01/10/2011 14:44:47
Eric CAntor liked about his office being shot at to create a false sense of equivalency? Yeah I do -- those threats were from the TEA BAGGERS!
And it turns out the Gun Shot story was a bunch of bullshit. IT was RANDOM gunfire that he used to try to fan the division in politics.
And it turns out the Gun Shot story was a bunch of bullshit. IT was RANDOM gunfire that he used to try to fan the division in politics.
Comment by 
BobR on 01/10/2011 14:52:51
What I heard on the radio this morning is that the doctors temporarly removed a piece of her skull to relieve pressure in case she had swelling in her brain. That may also be why they put her into an induced coma.
Prior to that, she was able to follow commands and recognized her husband, so she will likely recover.
BobR on 01/10/2011 14:52:51
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning
We've been on the run this weekend so I've only heard bits and pieces of the news from AZ. At this point I would like hear how the CongressWoman is doing - but I I hear is about the shooter. We all know what he is but I would think the more important thing is to know about the victims.
What I heard on the radio this morning is that the doctors temporarly removed a piece of her skull to relieve pressure in case she had swelling in her brain. That may also be why they put her into an induced coma.
Prior to that, she was able to follow commands and recognized her husband, so she will likely recover.
Comment by 
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 14:55:50
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 14:55:50
Comment by wickedpam on 01/10/2011 14:56:30
yeah, I'm just starting to read about the victims at the WaPo - their stories just break my heart
wickedpam on 01/10/2011 14:56:30
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
Morning
We've been on the run this weekend so I've only heard bits and pieces of the news from AZ. At this point I would like hear how the CongressWoman is doing - but I I hear is about the shooter. We all know what he is but I would think the more important thing is to know about the victims.
What I heard on the radio this morning is that the doctors temporarly removed a piece of her skull to relieve pressure in case she had swelling in her brain. That may also be why they put her into an induced coma.
Prior to that, she was able to follow cammands and recognized her husband, so she will likely recover.
yeah, I'm just starting to read about the victims at the WaPo - their stories just break my heart
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 14:58:31
Raine on 01/10/2011 14:58:31
This is a real problem -- What this lunatic said in his You tube video -- one that Bob and I watched -- is the same message that Glenn Beck talks about.
I am not kidding.
AS an Aside, has anyone seen this piece of Horshit from Sen. Lamar Alexander?
I think that at this point the damn media NEEDS to start talking about it. They should have talked about it in a much different way, and to be QUITE honest -- the GOP should have denounced Sarah Palin as an extremist since was promoting violence when that ad came out. The GOP owns this one, they embraced this line of reasoning -- the NEVER denounced, and and people like Lamar STILL aren't. They like HER. They like what she does. Now that the game is being brought into the light -- they want people to ignore it.
Instead they want us to just ignore it. Pretend it never happened.
A little like Bristol Palin promoting abstinence, after she gave birth to a baby, as a teenager, out of wedlock -- dontcha think?
I am not kidding.
AS an Aside, has anyone seen this piece of Horshit from Sen. Lamar Alexander?
Today, Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) was asked by CNN's Candy Crowley about Palin's ad, and responded that it was actually those referencing the ad that are being "irresponsible":
CROWLEY: Was it over the line, sort of specifically, since it's now being talked about everywhere, with Sarah Palin's web ads about people that she would like to see targeted for political defeat.
ALEXANDER: Well, Candy, I think you're responsible, by bringing this up, of doing the very thing you're trying to condemn. You're making and implying a direct connection between Sarah Palin and what happened. You're picking out a particular incident. Well, I think the way to get away from it is for you not to be talking about it.
I think that at this point the damn media NEEDS to start talking about it. They should have talked about it in a much different way, and to be QUITE honest -- the GOP should have denounced Sarah Palin as an extremist since was promoting violence when that ad came out. The GOP owns this one, they embraced this line of reasoning -- the NEVER denounced, and and people like Lamar STILL aren't. They like HER. They like what she does. Now that the game is being brought into the light -- they want people to ignore it.
Instead they want us to just ignore it. Pretend it never happened.
A little like Bristol Palin promoting abstinence, after she gave birth to a baby, as a teenager, out of wedlock -- dontcha think?
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 15:06:29
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 15:06:29
Proof that Palin & co. are scrubbing away big time.
And what the hell at the comment about the girl?! They let that one STAY!
And what the hell at the comment about the girl?! They let that one STAY!
Comment by BobR on 01/10/2011 15:11:36
That story - taken as a whole - shows what she and her minions are all about
BobR on 01/10/2011 15:11:36
Quote by Scoopster:
Proof that Palin & co. are scrubbing away big time.
And what the hell at the comment about the girl?! They let that one STAY!
That story - taken as a whole - shows what she and her minions are all about
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 15:12:13
Sarah Palin is a brand of hate.
Raine on 01/10/2011 15:12:13
Quote by Scoopster:
Proof that Palin & co. are scrubbing away big time.
And what the hell at the comment about the girl?! They let that one STAY!
Sarah Palin is a brand of hate.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 15:12:44
that was a 14 year old, Thank you for this young person for caring to call into the show and makes his voice heard.
Raine on 01/10/2011 15:12:44
that was a 14 year old, Thank you for this young person for caring to call into the show and makes his voice heard.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/10/2011 15:14:22
they must have busted out the insdustrial strength scrubbing bubbles - I bet their mindless hoard are helping by flagging the ones blaming her
wickedpam on 01/10/2011 15:14:22
Quote by Scoopster:
Proof that Palin & co. are scrubbing away big time.
And what the hell at the comment about the girl?! They let that one STAY!
they must have busted out the insdustrial strength scrubbing bubbles - I bet their mindless hoard are helping by flagging the ones blaming her
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 15:37:49
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 15:37:49
Ya know, I keep thinking back to the closing moments of the Stewart/Colbert Rally, when Jon was expressing his gratitude all of us in the crowd for helping him to believe there was hope for a return to sanity in this country. And I remember feeling the same way.. with that many people who attended and millions more who didn't make it, perhaps we can actually have an impact.
And then my mind returns to the present, and all this madness. And I can't help but have doubts again.
And then my mind returns to the present, and all this madness. And I can't help but have doubts again.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 15:44:04
Raine on 01/10/2011 15:44:04
I wish that caller had a better way to communicate what he was saying.
Hotel Rwanda and the entire genocide is a VERY important thing for us to pay attention to. I have been saying this for years.
Hotel Rwanda and the entire genocide is a VERY important thing for us to pay attention to. I have been saying this for years.
Comment by 
clintster on 01/10/2011 15:46:39
clintster on 01/10/2011 15:46:39
Morning all.
I just posted a note on Facebook about the situation. As many of you on there know, I don't usually post anything political on my page, and I thought I had not posted anything inciteful on Saturday when I made a mention of my swirling emotions and put a relevant quote by Gandhi (HT John Fugelsang) on the danger of violence. This morning I was greeted by identical comments by a right-wing friend trying to show the "violent" comments made by the President. I'm sure that you have seen the same quotes posted elsewhere or even on your own Facebook.
When did a simple remark on peace become a call to hate?
I just posted a note on Facebook about the situation. As many of you on there know, I don't usually post anything political on my page, and I thought I had not posted anything inciteful on Saturday when I made a mention of my swirling emotions and put a relevant quote by Gandhi (HT John Fugelsang) on the danger of violence. This morning I was greeted by identical comments by a right-wing friend trying to show the "violent" comments made by the President. I'm sure that you have seen the same quotes posted elsewhere or even on your own Facebook.
When did a simple remark on peace become a call to hate?
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 15:47:30
Don't doubt hope. Haters are counting on that. You can be angry and still go towards hope, Scoop.
It is -- and I mean this from my heart -- It's what Dr. King taught,
Words matter. Hope Matters. Using words as a way to hope is a good thing.
Raine on 01/10/2011 15:47:30
Quote by Scoopster:
Ya know, I keep thinking back to the closing moments of the Stewart/Colbert Rally, when Jon was expressing his gratitude all of us in the crowd for helping him to believe there was hope for a return to sanity in this country. And I remember feeling the same way.. with that many people who attended and millions more who didn't make it, perhaps we can actually have an impact.
And then my mind returns to the present, and all this madness. And I can't help but have doubts again.
Don't doubt hope. Haters are counting on that. You can be angry and still go towards hope, Scoop.
It is -- and I mean this from my heart -- It's what Dr. King taught,
Words matter. Hope Matters. Using words as a way to hope is a good thing.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 15:52:26
You can post it here too, Clint.
Raine on 01/10/2011 15:52:26
Quote by clintster:
Morning all.
I just posted a note on Facebook about the situation. As many of you on there know, I don't usually post anything political on my page, and I thought I had not posted anything inciteful on Saturday when I made a mention of my swirling emotions and put a relevant quote by Gandhi (HT John Fugelsang) on the danger of violence. This morning I was greeted by identical comments by a right-wing friend trying to show the "violent" comments made by the President. I'm sure that you have seen the same quotes posted elsewhere or even on your own Facebook.
When did a simple remark on peace become a call to hate?
Comment by clintster on 01/10/2011 15:55:15
This weekend I kept thinking about the rally and the speech by Jon. The analogy of people letting each other into a merge during rush hour was so perfect and appropriate. I only hope that this incident draws people nearer to one another.
clintster on 01/10/2011 15:55:15
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
Ya know, I keep thinking back to the closing moments of the Stewart/Colbert Rally, when Jon was expressing his gratitude all of us in the crowd for helping him to believe there was hope for a return to sanity in this country. And I remember feeling the same way.. with that many people who attended and millions more who didn't make it, perhaps we can actually have an impact.
And then my mind returns to the present, and all this madness. And I can't help but have doubts again.
Don't doubt hope. Haters are counting on that. You can be angry and still go towards hope, Scoop.
It is -- and I mean this from my heart -- It's what Dr. King taught,
Words matter. Hope Matters. Using words as a way to hope is a good thing.
This weekend I kept thinking about the rally and the speech by Jon. The analogy of people letting each other into a merge during rush hour was so perfect and appropriate. I only hope that this incident draws people nearer to one another.
Comment by clintster on 01/10/2011 15:58:06
clintster on 01/10/2011 15:58:06
This is my post from Facebook. Do and comment what you will:
I just have a few words to say about Saturday's tragedies in Tucson and the reaction. When I heard the news, I had a reaction, and I began to write a very inflammatory note about the situation, but I reserved myself. Instead, I wrote a simple post about my emotions at the time. Later, I posted a quote by Mohandas Gandhi decrying the general state of violence. I thought, "Surely there is nothing controversial or provocative about decrying violence."
I was wrong. This morning, I had posts on both status messages filled with quotes by President Obama, which I suppose are meant to be equivocation to the now-infamous "targets" graphic posted by SarahPAC. I took the comments down, because I am not in the mood for such things.
Those of you who are reading this are my friends. Not merely "friends" in the current social media context, but friends. However we have met, whatever experiences we have shared, I have established a bond with you. And that bond is not based upon whether I agree with your politics or not. I have pitbulls with lipstick and DFH's, Coke drinkers and Pepsi drinkers, Gamecocks and Tigers, sharing my little patch of the internet.
I mostly avoid posting on political matters on Facebook because to me this is a place for me to have a good time, to see how y'all are doing, offer solace in the hard times, and celebrate in the good times. I really don't want to waste my time arguing politics and trading talking points. I am not someone who would unfriend someone for their political beliefs; those are your beliefs and you have arrived at them honestly. However, when you take a simple call for calm and rationality and turn it into an attack on political figures or political groups, you and I are going to have a problem.
We all share this world for only a little time in the grand scheme of things. Life is too short to be hurling invective at each other in the hopes of "making someone think". Let us take this incident as a sign to reexamine the way we express our political opinions. I have my opinions of the assassin and his motivation, but I will reserve them for other arenas. If Rep. Giffords had been a Republican, my emotions would still have been the same and my calls for toning down the rhetoric would be just as heartfelt. I sincerely hope I never have to test that statement, not out of some stupid ideology but because I really don't want to see more blood shed because someone thinks the nation is worse off than it is.
Live together. Live in peace.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 15:58:34
Raine on 01/10/2011 15:58:34
Hey Kathy -- Arizona Ain't NYS.
Screw you KAthy -- you are more of the deflection of what happened here.
Screw you KAthy -- you are more of the deflection of what happened here.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 16:03:34
Raine on 01/10/2011 16:03:34
Silence.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/10/2011 16:04:23
wickedpam on 01/10/2011 16:04:23
My question to all these people saying "oh well he would have killed someone" - why are you willing to listen to people that pander to the mental ill among us? I may not be saying that right though
Comment by clintster on 01/10/2011 16:06:04
Observation or command?
clintster on 01/10/2011 16:06:04
Quote by Raine:
Silence.
Observation or command?
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 16:07:43
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 16:07:43
Comment by clintster on 01/10/2011 16:08:06
clintster on 01/10/2011 16:08:06
BTW, I finally heard Shane-O's podcast this weekend, and am now a subscriber. Nice work on your episode, Raine. 
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 16:16:01
I think I may be understanding.
It seems as tho we should be forgiving those that *MAY* be mentally unstable. I am not convinced that this person is -- or is not.
I am convinced that he acted very strange according to his fellow College classmates and his college. Most media have assumed that he is mentally unstable, and that is interesting considering we have had NO assessment REPORTS re: his mental state from any legit media OR medical source.
I still stand by my belief that we have irresponsible people in the media that are more willing to cater to lunacy as opposed to fact in order to get ratings. I wonder if it makes it better for them to say he was just a crazy guy.
Let's just keep ignoring hate radio tho... Let's just keep blaming " insane " people.
Raine on 01/10/2011 16:16:01
Quote by wickedpam:
My question to all these people saying "oh well he would have killed someone" - why are you willing to listen to people that pander to the mental ill among us? I may not be saying that right though
I think I may be understanding.
It seems as tho we should be forgiving those that *MAY* be mentally unstable. I am not convinced that this person is -- or is not.
I am convinced that he acted very strange according to his fellow College classmates and his college. Most media have assumed that he is mentally unstable, and that is interesting considering we have had NO assessment REPORTS re: his mental state from any legit media OR medical source.
I still stand by my belief that we have irresponsible people in the media that are more willing to cater to lunacy as opposed to fact in order to get ratings. I wonder if it makes it better for them to say he was just a crazy guy.
Let's just keep ignoring hate radio tho... Let's just keep blaming " insane " people.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 16:17:10
Neither.
it was the 11 am moment of silence that the President asked for.
Raine on 01/10/2011 16:17:10
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
Silence.
Observation or command?
Neither.
it was the 11 am moment of silence that the President asked for.
Comment by clintster on 01/10/2011 16:20:55
Sorry, I had missed that announcement somehow. I'll just be over here in the corner.
clintster on 01/10/2011 16:20:55
Quote by Raine:Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
Silence.
Observation or command?
Neither.
it was the 11 am moment of silence that the President asked for.
Sorry, I had missed that announcement somehow. I'll just be over here in the corner.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/10/2011 16:29:42
If I were someone who was mentally ill I think I might be offended that all these crazy people are getting the same label as me.
Think I'm kinda all over the place and just don't know how to verbalize it - I want everyone to be able to speak their mind and share their thoughts, cause out of share might come good ideas. However, I have a problem with people like Beck his ilk - they do nothing but pander to the lesser among us and they feed on the fear they instill in others.
They are vampires.
wickedpam on 01/10/2011 16:29:42
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
My question to all these people saying "oh well he would have killed someone" - why are you willing to listen to people that pander to the mental ill among us? I may not be saying that right though
I think I may be understanding.
It seems as tho we should be forgiving those that *MAY* be mentally unstable. I am not convinced that this person is -- or is not.
I am convinced that he acted very strange according to his fellow College classmates and his college. Most media have assumed that he is mentally unstable, and that is interesting considering we have had NO assessment REPORTS re: his mental state from any legit media OR medical source.
I still stand by my belief that we have irresponsible people in the media that are more willing to cater to lunacy as opposed to fact in order to get ratings. I wonder if it makes it better for them to say he was just a crazy guy.
Let's just keep ignoring hate radio tho... Let's just keep blaming " insane " people.
If I were someone who was mentally ill I think I might be offended that all these crazy people are getting the same label as me.
Think I'm kinda all over the place and just don't know how to verbalize it - I want everyone to be able to speak their mind and share their thoughts, cause out of share might come good ideas. However, I have a problem with people like Beck his ilk - they do nothing but pander to the lesser among us and they feed on the fear they instill in others.
They are vampires.
Comment by BobR on 01/10/2011 16:31:02
BobR on 01/10/2011 16:31:02
Comment by clintster on 01/10/2011 16:31:11
clintster on 01/10/2011 16:31:11
You know I could go with the "both sides are bad, both sides are guilty" argument...
if it weren't for all the freakin' evidence!
if it weren't for all the freakin' evidence!
Comment by BobR on 01/10/2011 16:37:07
The problem is that the right wingers equate "they're bad!" with "kill them"
BobR on 01/10/2011 16:37:07
Quote by clintster:
You know I could go with the "both sides are bad, both sides are guilty" argument...
if it weren't for all the freakin' evidence!
The problem is that the right wingers equate "they're bad!" with "kill them"
Comment by clintster on 01/10/2011 16:40:18
Pretty much. It's like trying to shame someone holding a gun.
clintster on 01/10/2011 16:40:18
Quote by BobR:Quote by clintster:
You know I could go with the "both sides are bad, both sides are guilty" argument...
if it weren't for all the freakin' evidence!
The problem is that the right wingers equate "they're bad!" with "kill them"
Pretty much. It's like trying to shame someone holding a gun.
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 16:41:22
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 16:41:22
Comment by BobR on 01/10/2011 16:53:38
I couldn't really read that - what are we looking at?
BobR on 01/10/2011 16:53:38
Quote by Scoopster:
Hmm.. this is odd look at the "channels" it shows she's subscribed to.
I couldn't really read that - what are we looking at?
Comment by wickedpam on 01/10/2011 17:04:56
it had what she subscribed to and looks like who subscribs to her vids
wickedpam on 01/10/2011 17:04:56
Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:
Hmm.. this is odd look at the "channels" it shows she's subscribed to.
I couldn't really read that - what are we looking at?
it had what she subscribed to and looks like who subscribs to her vids
Comment by 
livingonli on 01/10/2011 17:04:59
livingonli on 01/10/2011 17:04:59
A belated good morning folks.
Been busy this weekend but tired of the right-wingers trying to make it a mutual equivalency by using a few isolated quotes when the signs and rhetoric have all been coming from the right. And look at our history, and how much more violence has come from fundamentalists bombing abortion clinics or the KKK/Neo-Nazi movement compared to what was done by the Weather Underground or Black Panther Party.
Been busy this weekend but tired of the right-wingers trying to make it a mutual equivalency by using a few isolated quotes when the signs and rhetoric have all been coming from the right. And look at our history, and how much more violence has come from fundamentalists bombing abortion clinics or the KKK/Neo-Nazi movement compared to what was done by the Weather Underground or Black Panther Party.
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 17:08:08
Her channel is subscribed to the shooter's channel.
I'm guessing one of her aides did this after the shooting (at the suggestion of the police?).. if a new video pops up they'd be notified by email immediately.
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 17:08:08
Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:
Hmm.. this is odd look at the "channels" it shows she's subscribed to.
I couldn't really read that - what are we looking at?
Her channel is subscribed to the shooter's channel.
I'm guessing one of her aides did this after the shooting (at the suggestion of the police?).. if a new video pops up they'd be notified by email immediately.
Comment by 
velveeta jones on 01/10/2011 17:27:47
velveeta jones on 01/10/2011 17:27:47
Morning, er, Afternoon all.
I am still angry and sad over these shootings. I can't look at much on the news about it. The information about the 9 year-old girl just sets me to tears! She seemed like the essence of hopefulness and caring that this country needs in our youth.
I am still angry and sad over these shootings. I can't look at much on the news about it. The information about the 9 year-old girl just sets me to tears! She seemed like the essence of hopefulness and caring that this country needs in our youth.
Comment by velveeta jones on 01/10/2011 17:44:21
velveeta jones on 01/10/2011 17:44:21
Today is a good day to get out the ol' shredder and get rid of those all documents that clutter up one's office.
Comment by velveeta jones on 01/10/2011 17:52:24
velveeta jones on 01/10/2011 17:52:24
BREAKING NEWS!!:
According to our local FOX news affiliate, seems scientists have invented something they are calling an ICE SCRAPPER. This device claims to remove snow and ice from your car's windshield by use of manual manipulation using a piece of hard plastic attached to a short stick. Our ace newswoman and her erstwhile cameraman braved the outdoors to show us in-depth video of how this breakthrough works!
I just love snow days!
According to our local FOX news affiliate, seems scientists have invented something they are calling an ICE SCRAPPER. This device claims to remove snow and ice from your car's windshield by use of manual manipulation using a piece of hard plastic attached to a short stick. Our ace newswoman and her erstwhile cameraman braved the outdoors to show us in-depth video of how this breakthrough works!
I just love snow days!
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 17:55:44
I need a shredder at home.. I literally have expanda-files filled with financial docs going back toabout 1995 when I moved in 2004..
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 17:55:44
Quote by velveeta jones:
Today is a good day to get out the ol' shredder and get rid of those all documents that clutter up one's office.
I need a shredder at home.. I literally have expanda-files filled with financial docs going back to
Comment by livingonli on 01/10/2011 18:14:56
livingonli on 01/10/2011 18:14:56
I just love how The Weather Channel is not saying how much snow we will be getting on Tuesday night into Wedensday morning.
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 18:24:27
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 18:24:27
Comment by BobR on 01/10/2011 18:28:20
Maybe they're trying to preempt all the hillbillies getting out their propane torches
BobR on 01/10/2011 18:28:20
Quote by velveeta jones:
BREAKING NEWS!!:
According to our local FOX news affiliate, seems scientists have invented something they are calling an ICE SCRAPPER. This device claims to remove snow and ice from your car's windshield by use of manual manipulation using a piece of hard plastic attached to a short stick. Our ace newswoman and her erstwhile cameraman braved the outdoors to show us in-depth video of how this breakthrough works!
I just love snow days!
Maybe they're trying to preempt all the hillbillies getting out their propane torches
Comment by wickedpam on 01/10/2011 18:35:25
or keeping them from burning their fingers with matches
wickedpam on 01/10/2011 18:35:25
Quote by BobR:Quote by velveeta jones:
BREAKING NEWS!!:
According to our local FOX news affiliate, seems scientists have invented something they are calling an ICE SCRAPPER. This device claims to remove snow and ice from your car's windshield by use of manual manipulation using a piece of hard plastic attached to a short stick. Our ace newswoman and her erstwhile cameraman braved the outdoors to show us in-depth video of how this breakthrough works!
I just love snow days!
Maybe they're trying to preempt all the hillbillies getting out their propane torches
or keeping them from burning their fingers with matches
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 19:20:24
What an absolute douchebag.
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 19:20:24
By the way, as an exit thought, the tea party movement won in November. Winners don’t go on shooting sprees.
-Erick, cofounder of RedState
What an absolute douchebag.
Comment by velveeta jones on 01/10/2011 19:32:58
velveeta jones on 01/10/2011 19:32:58
Just heard on FOX NEWS: (Paraphrased) interview with Micheal Reagan.
Dumb Blonde Talking Head: "some say that this shooting was due in part to all the vitriol on both sides of the political aisle. What do you have to say about it?"
Reagan: blah blah blah.......
DBTH: "Well the [AZ] Sheriff who argued that there is too much violent rhetoric in politics today, has no facts or proof to base these statements on.
:ROFL:
OMG!! See how she did this? She used NO facts of any kind in her "some say" but anyone who might come to a conclusion based on information he may have, is totally not reliable!!!
:ROFL:
Dumb Blonde Talking Head: "some say that this shooting was due in part to all the vitriol on both sides of the political aisle. What do you have to say about it?"
Reagan: blah blah blah.......
DBTH: "Well the [AZ] Sheriff who argued that there is too much violent rhetoric in politics today, has no facts or proof to base these statements on.
:ROFL:
OMG!! See how she did this? She used NO facts of any kind in her "some say" but anyone who might come to a conclusion based on information he may have, is totally not reliable!!!
:ROFL:
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 19:45:41
As always Fox is in total spin & hypocrisy mode..
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 19:45:41
Quote by velveeta jones:
Just heard on FOX NEWS: (Paraphrased) interview with Micheal Reagan.
Dumb Blonde Talking Head: "some say that this shooting was due in part to all the vitriol on both sides of the political aisle. What do you have to say about it?"
Reagan: blah blah blah.......
DBTH: "Well the [AZ] Sheriff who argued that there is too much violent rhetoric in politics today, has no facts or proof to base these statements on.
OMG!! See how she did this? She used NO facts of any kind in her "some say" but anyone who might come to a conclusion based on information he may have, is totally not reliable!!!
As always Fox is in total spin & hypocrisy mode..
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 20:23:13
Raine on 01/10/2011 20:23:13
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 20:23:58
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 20:23:58
This just in - Tom Delay sentenced to 3 years in prison.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 20:25:55
HE, on the DAY this happened wrote a screed blaming the left for this tragedy. He was one of the first to start this meme.
They refuse to see that this is part of a picture - a broad one- that they themselves have created.
That they are trying to blame the messenger (as Vleveeta posted a bit below) is just more disengenuine bloviating from the right.
Raine on 01/10/2011 20:25:55
Quote by Scoopster:By the way, as an exit thought, the tea party movement won in November. Winners don’t go on shooting sprees.
-Erick, cofounder of RedState
What an absolute douchebag.
HE, on the DAY this happened wrote a screed blaming the left for this tragedy. He was one of the first to start this meme.
They refuse to see that this is part of a picture - a broad one- that they themselves have created.
That they are trying to blame the messenger (as Vleveeta posted a bit below) is just more disengenuine bloviating from the right.
Comment by livingonli on 01/10/2011 20:26:22
Finally, some justice. I guess now we can tell him not to pick up the soap.
livingonli on 01/10/2011 20:26:22
Quote by Scoopster:
This just in - Tom Delay sentenced to 3 years in prison.
Finally, some justice. I guess now we can tell him not to pick up the soap.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 20:26:27
wow.
Raine on 01/10/2011 20:26:27
Quote by Scoopster:
This just in - Tom Delay sentenced to 3 years in prison.
wow.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/10/2011 20:36:49
Shut Up! No Way!
wickedpam on 01/10/2011 20:36:49
Quote by Scoopster:
This just in - Tom Delay sentenced to 3 years in prison.
Shut Up! No Way!
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 20:37:38
Raine on 01/10/2011 20:37:38
I would like for people to stop assuming that this guy was mentally ill.
We don't know that from a clinical, medical point of view. Seriously, if he is ill, then why not say that a good damn number of talk and or Radio show hosts are mentally ill as well?
We don't know that from a clinical, medical point of view. Seriously, if he is ill, then why not say that a good damn number of talk and or Radio show hosts are mentally ill as well?
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 20:39:12
Still waiting for a news link, but this is from the Sunlight foundation.
Raine on 01/10/2011 20:39:12
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:
This just in - Tom Delay sentenced to 3 years in prison.
Shut Up! No Way!
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 20:46:41
Here we go.. http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/state&id=7888908
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 20:46:41
Quote by Raine:Still waiting for a news link, but this is from the Sunlight foundation.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:
This just in - Tom Delay sentenced to 3 years in prison.
Shut Up! No Way!
Here we go.. http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/state&id=7888908
Comment by Scoopster on 01/10/2011 20:49:00
Scoopster on 01/10/2011 20:49:00
Mother Jones has an interview with a "close" friend of Loughner..
After reading this he definitely comes off more as someone who's mentally ill rather than an outright seething teabagger.. but you can still see pieces of the anti-federalist mentality that is the backbone of that movement.
After reading this he definitely comes off more as someone who's mentally ill rather than an outright seething teabagger.. but you can still see pieces of the anti-federalist mentality that is the backbone of that movement.
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 21:35:57
Raine on 01/10/2011 21:35:57
The Arc of the Universe Is Long But It Bends Towards Justice....
There was a long enough DELAY in this case, huh?
So I am assuming he will serve time, and that it won't be just served?
There was a long enough DELAY in this case, huh?
So I am assuming he will serve time, and that it won't be just served?
Comment by Raine on 01/10/2011 21:41:57
HEre are my suspicions:
There is no way anyone is going to ever tell us what his TV viewing or his radio listening practices were.
No one is going to tell us who he read on the internet, or the video games he may have played.
Bob said on his status update: "The fact that the shooter is mentally ill does not mean that his mind exists in a vacuum." ~ Drew Westen
I would like for us to not make it sound like only mentally ill people are capable of this kind of massacre. Timothy McVeigh comes to mind. Scot Roeder is another one. Their ramblings and actions were not that different.
Raine on 01/10/2011 21:41:57
Quote by Scoopster:
Mother Jones has an interview with a "close" friend of Loughner..
After reading this he definitely comes off more as someone who's mentally ill rather than an outright seething teabagger.. but you can still see pieces of the anti-federalist mentality that is the backbone of that movement.
There is no way anyone is going to ever tell us what his TV viewing or his radio listening practices were.
No one is going to tell us who he read on the internet, or the video games he may have played.
Bob said on his status update: "The fact that the shooter is mentally ill does not mean that his mind exists in a vacuum." ~ Drew Westen
I would like for us to not make it sound like only mentally ill people are capable of this kind of massacre. Timothy McVeigh comes to mind. Scot Roeder is another one. Their ramblings and actions were not that different.
Comment by clintster on 01/10/2011 23:22:18
clintster on 01/10/2011 23:22:18
All I have to say about the Tom Delay sentencing is this...