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A Plan for our Future SOTU
Author: BobR
Date: 02/13/2013 14:04:02
Last night America was treated to one of our most venerated spectacles: the State of the Union address. Like all things official and governmental, there was the usual bit of pomp and circumstance as various groups of people were announced and paraded in, with lots of smiles and handshakes and schmoozing.
Finally, it was President Obama's turn, and he made his way to the dais. Perfunctory as always, the Speaker announced "Ladies and Gentlemen - the President of the United States" and as if on-cue - a standing ovation ensued. All of it is predictable and silly and entertaining to watch. And then - the President got down to business.
His speech took us through the economy, Medicare, jobs and manufacturing, infrastructure, climate change and energy, housing, education, the military, foreign policy, voting, and - finally - gun violence.
There were a few items that were surprises, either for the nature of the language or the specificity. He nudged Congress several times, saying that certain issues should be non-partisan and easy to pass. He spoke about several job-creating measures such as green energy, better (and cheaper) education, high-tech manufacturing centers, infrastructure repair and improvement, and tax structures to encourage buying and hiring at home. He advocated for early childhood education.
The emotional highlight of his speech came at the end when asked for a vote on gun-control legislation. He admonished the Congress saying "If you want to vote no, that's your choice. But these proposals deserve a vote." He continued with mentioning victims of infamous shootings with the tag line "they deserve a vote". He also shamed states that make voting so difficult. Finally, he wrapped it all up with sweeping language to encourage us all to become more involved in making this country a better place:
As has also been the tradition for a few decades, the opposition provided their "rebuttal" to the SOTU. In recent years, it has not been one of the Republicans' shining moments. Who can forget Michelle Bachmann appearing to look over the shoulder of the cameraman, rather than into the camera? Who can forget Bobby Jindal sounding like he was talking to a 3rd grade class?
This time, Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL) was given the unenviable task of trying to deliver some counter-inspiration after President Obama's soaring rhetoric. As have his predecessors, he failed - miserably. Looking scared and jumpy, he mischaracterized (and in some cases - lied) about the president's speech or other "facts" he quoted to support his arguments. It was almost comical hearing him describe how he and his family succeeded at the American Dream due to governmental programs, and then proceeded to decry those same programs as too costly or intrusive.
And then - this happened:
It was awkward and hilarious. It totally obliterated any chance that what he said would be taken seriously, or even remembered. Any discussion you see of Rubio this morning will focus more on the water than on the content of his rebuttal.
Rand Paul also had a rebuttal from the Tea Party wing. He didn't even do it live on TV, opting instead for a "direct-to-video" approach, which should give some indication of how seriously it should be taken. Sample:
Heady material indeed.
The president's speech laid out an ambitious plan to remake America into a 21st century country. The chances of getting it all done in 4 years is practically nil. Whether any of it can be accomplished remains to be seen.
Finally, it was President Obama's turn, and he made his way to the dais. Perfunctory as always, the Speaker announced "Ladies and Gentlemen - the President of the United States" and as if on-cue - a standing ovation ensued. All of it is predictable and silly and entertaining to watch. And then - the President got down to business.
His speech took us through the economy, Medicare, jobs and manufacturing, infrastructure, climate change and energy, housing, education, the military, foreign policy, voting, and - finally - gun violence.
There were a few items that were surprises, either for the nature of the language or the specificity. He nudged Congress several times, saying that certain issues should be non-partisan and easy to pass. He spoke about several job-creating measures such as green energy, better (and cheaper) education, high-tech manufacturing centers, infrastructure repair and improvement, and tax structures to encourage buying and hiring at home. He advocated for early childhood education.
The emotional highlight of his speech came at the end when asked for a vote on gun-control legislation. He admonished the Congress saying "If you want to vote no, that's your choice. But these proposals deserve a vote." He continued with mentioning victims of infamous shootings with the tag line "they deserve a vote". He also shamed states that make voting so difficult. Finally, he wrapped it all up with sweeping language to encourage us all to become more involved in making this country a better place:
We may do different jobs, and wear different uniforms, and hold different views than the person beside us. But as Americans, we all share the same proud title:
We are citizens. It's a word that doesn't just describe our nationality or legal status. It describes the way we're made. It describes what we believe. It captures the enduring idea that this country only works when we accept certain obligations to one another and to future generations; that our rights are wrapped up in the rights of others; and that well into our third century as a nation, it remains the task of us all, as citizens of these United States, to be the authors of the next great chapter in our American story.
As has also been the tradition for a few decades, the opposition provided their "rebuttal" to the SOTU. In recent years, it has not been one of the Republicans' shining moments. Who can forget Michelle Bachmann appearing to look over the shoulder of the cameraman, rather than into the camera? Who can forget Bobby Jindal sounding like he was talking to a 3rd grade class?
This time, Senator Marco Rubio (R-FL) was given the unenviable task of trying to deliver some counter-inspiration after President Obama's soaring rhetoric. As have his predecessors, he failed - miserably. Looking scared and jumpy, he mischaracterized (and in some cases - lied) about the president's speech or other "facts" he quoted to support his arguments. It was almost comical hearing him describe how he and his family succeeded at the American Dream due to governmental programs, and then proceeded to decry those same programs as too costly or intrusive.
And then - this happened:
As the up-and-coming senator attempted to counter the president's message, he appeared to grow increasingly uncomfortable, wiping his mouth and licking his lips on a number of occasions. Apparently unable to wait until the end of his address to satiate his thirst, Rubio reached for his small bottle of Poland Springs water mid-speech.
It was awkward and hilarious. It totally obliterated any chance that what he said would be taken seriously, or even remembered. Any discussion you see of Rubio this morning will focus more on the water than on the content of his rebuttal.
Rand Paul also had a rebuttal from the Tea Party wing. He didn't even do it live on TV, opting instead for a "direct-to-video" approach, which should give some indication of how seriously it should be taken. Sample:
“The President offers you free stuff but his policies keep you poor,” Paul continued, then proposing his own five-year budget which includes a 17 percent flat income tax.
Heady material indeed.
The president's speech laid out an ambitious plan to remake America into a 21st century country. The chances of getting it all done in 4 years is practically nil. Whether any of it can be accomplished remains to be seen.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 14:08:27
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 14:08:27
Morning 
Comment by 
Raine on 02/13/2013 14:09:10
Good morning!
Rubio may have sucked but at least he swallowed!
Raine on 02/13/2013 14:09:10
Good morning! Rubio may have sucked but at least he swallowed!
Comment by 
BobR on 02/13/2013 14:21:44
bloggie is up...
BobR on 02/13/2013 14:21:44
Quote by Raine:
Rubio may have sucked but at least he swallowed!
bloggie is up...
Comment by 
velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 14:24:18
velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 14:24:18
Rubio. The new word for: awkward!
Morning all. Great speech. How about that 102 year old woman! Wow.
Morning all. Great speech. How about that 102 year old woman! Wow.
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 14:28:19
Raine on 02/13/2013 14:28:19
Comment by BobR on 02/13/2013 14:28:31
BobR on 02/13/2013 14:28:31
Did anyone hear if Nugent ever actually showed up?
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 14:28:55
velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 14:28:55
Also, did anyone else notice that every time Boner had to clap as in ("oh I suppose I have to clap for this") that he also pursed his mouth and licked his lips? As if to detract from the clap or something.
Lastly, I believe the water was so far away because the stage manager was a democrat. Just a theory.
Lastly, I believe the water was so far away because the stage manager was a democrat. Just a theory.
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 14:30:17
Yes, he was way up near the top. Wore a brown jacket and jeans and sneakers.
Raine on 02/13/2013 14:30:17
Quote by BobR:
Did anyone hear if Nugent ever actually showed up?
Yes, he was way up near the top. Wore a brown jacket and jeans and sneakers.
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 14:32:39
I like that theory.
Just incredible.
Raine on 02/13/2013 14:32:39
Quote by velveeta jones:
Also, did anyone else notice that every time Boner had to clap as in ("oh I suppose I have to clap for this") that he also pursed his mouth and licked his lips? As if to detract from the clap or something.
Lastly, I believe the water was so far away because the stage manager was a democrat. Just a theory.
Just incredible.
Comment by BobR on 02/13/2013 14:34:16
Yep - looking like he was about to shit his pants... again.
BobR on 02/13/2013 14:34:16
Quote by Raine:Quote by BobR:
Did anyone hear if Nugent ever actually showed up?
Yes, he was way up near the top. Wore a brown jacket and jeans and sneakers.
Yep - looking like he was about to shit his pants... again.
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:39:55
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:39:55
The Sargent at Arms of the House is the one who says the Mister Speaker bit..
Comment by 
Scoopster on 02/13/2013 14:41:24
Scoopster on 02/13/2013 14:41:24
Quote by Raine:
Rubio may have sucked but at least he swallowed!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:42:07
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:42:07
I got through about 15-20 minutes of the speech before I went to bed. I missed the best part, Marco Rubio looking shiftier than Nixon. 
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 14:43:17
velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 14:43:17
He wore jeans and an ugly sports coat to the SOTU? Seriously? He dressed like he was going to the Cracker Barrel?
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:43:26
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:43:26
Quote by Raine:
Rubio may have sucked but at least he swallowed!
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 14:43:40
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 14:43:40
Gawker has that Rubio clip in slo mo - its hysterical!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:44:06
Stay klassy Ted. Stay klassy
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:44:06
Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:Quote by BobR:
Did anyone hear if Nugent ever actually showed up?
Yes, he was way up near the top. Wore a brown jacket and jeans and sneakers.
Yep - looking like he was about to shit his pants... again.
Stay klassy Ted. Stay klassy
Comment by Scoopster on 02/13/2013 14:46:47
Scoopster on 02/13/2013 14:46:47
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:49:18
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:49:18
Comment by Scoopster on 02/13/2013 14:51:04
Ugh.. the comments on that page are making my head explode like that fistbump.
Scoopster on 02/13/2013 14:51:04
Quote by Raine:
This is the awesome!
Ugh.. the comments on that page are making my head explode like that fistbump.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:51:27
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 14:51:27
Was it me or did the Boner have a more natural color last night?
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 14:52:06
Wow, they are pretty nasty. WTF?
Raine on 02/13/2013 14:52:06
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
This is the awesome!
Ugh.. the comments on that page are making my head explode like that fistbump.
Wow, they are pretty nasty. WTF?
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 14:53:38
the trolls took control early with that one last night
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 14:53:38
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
This is the awesome!
Ugh.. the comments on that page are making my head explode like that fistbump.
Wow, they are pretty nasty. WTF?
the trolls took control early with that one last night
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 14:56:37
velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 14:56:37
Attn Nerds:
Question here, is there any good way to install (or make happen) a sleep timer in a TV that doesn't have one? My daughter keeps falling asleep with the tv on all night!
Question here, is there any good way to install (or make happen) a sleep timer in a TV that doesn't have one? My daughter keeps falling asleep with the tv on all night!
Comment by Scoopster on 02/13/2013 15:00:20
Yes! You can buy an outlet timer at any Walgreens/CVS/etc. - I used to have one on my ancient TV.
Scoopster on 02/13/2013 15:00:20
Quote by velveeta jones:
Attn Nerds:
Question here, is there any good way to install (or make happen) a sleep timer in a TV that doesn't have one? My daughter keeps falling asleep with the tv on all night!
Yes! You can buy an outlet timer at any Walgreens/CVS/etc. - I used to have one on my ancient TV.
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 15:14:40
Yes, but it won't work with her remote. She's too lazy to actually get out of bed. (I know! Kids today!!)
velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 15:14:40
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by velveeta jones:
Attn Nerds:
Question here, is there any good way to install (or make happen) a sleep timer in a TV that doesn't have one? My daughter keeps falling asleep with the tv on all night!
Yes! You can buy an outlet timer at any Walgreens/CVS/etc. - I used to have one on my ancient TV.
Yes, but it won't work with her remote. She's too lazy to actually get out of bed. (I know! Kids today!!)
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 15:16:36
Oh, wait... I can set it to go off daily at like XXpm.... duh. This might work. Might.
velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 15:16:36
Quote by velveeta jones:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by velveeta jones:
Attn Nerds:
Question here, is there any good way to install (or make happen) a sleep timer in a TV that doesn't have one? My daughter keeps falling asleep with the tv on all night!
Yes! You can buy an outlet timer at any Walgreens/CVS/etc. - I used to have one on my ancient TV.
Yes, but it won't work with her remote. She's too lazy to actually get out of bed. (I know! Kids today!!)
Oh, wait... I can set it to go off daily at like XXpm.... duh. This might work. Might.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 15:16:59
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 15:16:59
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 15:19:35
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 15:19:35
Comment by Scoopster on 02/13/2013 15:28:46
Yep - and you'd ALSO be able to set it to turn ON at a certain time (if she happens to have issues with alarm clocks).
Scoopster on 02/13/2013 15:28:46
Quote by velveeta jones:Quote by velveeta jones:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by velveeta jones:
Attn Nerds:
Question here, is there any good way to install (or make happen) a sleep timer in a TV that doesn't have one? My daughter keeps falling asleep with the tv on all night!
Yes! You can buy an outlet timer at any Walgreens/CVS/etc. - I used to have one on my ancient TV.
Yes, but it won't work with her remote. She's too lazy to actually get out of bed. (I know! Kids today!!)
Oh, wait... I can set it to go off daily at like XXpm.... duh. This might work. Might.
Yep - and you'd ALSO be able to set it to turn ON at a certain time (if she happens to have issues with alarm clocks).
Comment by BobR on 02/13/2013 15:29:49
I was never one to watch it, but it seems to me to be a core of what the Olympics were about. I guess it doesn't draw enough TV viewers? Is that where we are now?
BobR on 02/13/2013 15:29:49
I was never one to watch it, but it seems to me to be a core of what the Olympics were about. I guess it doesn't draw enough TV viewers? Is that where we are now?
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 15:30:54
Biden's is great
McCain looked like he swallowed his tongue
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 15:30:54
Quote by Mondobubba:
The Guardian has a whole bunch of animated gifs. Check out the VPOTUS one.
Biden's is great
McCain looked like he swallowed his tongue
Comment by Scoopster on 02/13/2013 15:32:50
Scoopster on 02/13/2013 15:32:50
Momma's Facebook stream has some zingers today!
Comment by 
Will in Chicago on 02/13/2013 15:38:16
Will in Chicago on 02/13/2013 15:38:16
Good morning, bloggers!!
BobR, I missed parts of the inauguration, but I do agree that the president touched on several key issues. I am, however, concerned about the Keystone XL Pipeline and wished that he had talked about alternative energy.
As for the GOP, I think we see that Marco Rubio is merely oldwine water in a new bottle.
BobR, I missed parts of the inauguration, but I do agree that the president touched on several key issues. I am, however, concerned about the Keystone XL Pipeline and wished that he had talked about alternative energy.
As for the GOP, I think we see that Marco Rubio is merely old
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 02/13/2013 15:41:56
Change "TV viewers" to "ad revenue" and I'd believe it. How many wrestlers have $$$$ endorsement contracts?
trojanrabbit on 02/13/2013 15:41:56
Quote by BobR:
I was never one to watch it, but it seems to me to be a core of what the Olympics were about. I guess it doesn't draw enough TV viewers? Is that where we are now?
Change "TV viewers" to "ad revenue" and I'd believe it. How many wrestlers have $$$$ endorsement contracts?
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 15:43:11
I love these!
Raine on 02/13/2013 15:43:11
Quote by Mondobubba:
The Guardian has a whole bunch of animated gifs. Check out the VPOTUS one.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 15:44:22
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 15:44:22
would have loved to have seen the Nugget's face when people were standing and chanting VOTE!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 15:45:58
More than you would thing, actually.
This was on Marketplace yesterdee.
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 15:45:58
Quote by trojanrabbit:Quote by BobR:
I was never one to watch it, but it seems to me to be a core of what the Olympics were about. I guess it doesn't draw enough TV viewers? Is that where we are now?
Change "TV viewers" to "ad revenue" and I'd believe it. How many wrestlers have $$$$ endorsement contracts?
More than you would thing, actually.
This was on Marketplace yesterdee.
Comment by BobR on 02/13/2013 15:49:54
fixxity!
And he did mention alternative energy.
BobR on 02/13/2013 15:49:54
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Good morning, bloggers!!
BobR, I missed parts of theinaugurationState of the Union, but I do agree that the president touched on several key issues. I am, however, concerned about the Keystone XL Pipeline and wished that he had talked about alternative energy.
As for the GOP, I think we see that Marco Rubio is merely oldwinewater in a new bottle.
fixxity!
And he did mention alternative energy.
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 15:52:08
velveeta jones on 02/13/2013 15:52:08
Wrestling was in the Olympics?
Comment by trojanrabbit on 02/13/2013 15:52:14
trojanrabbit on 02/13/2013 15:52:14
I'm sorry. I really am...
3 people of note in this clip.
3 people of note in this clip.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/13/2013 15:58:22
I am deep into planning a lesson for the job I interviewed Friday. I figured that while I am waiting, I can work on a lesson plan for a PowerPoint (I am optimistic that I will get a call back, as I was the first person that they interviewed and I was with the assistant principal and the literacy coach for 45 minutes.)
Will in Chicago on 02/13/2013 15:58:22
Quote by BobR:Quote by Will in Chicago:
Good morning, bloggers!!
BobR, I missed parts of theinaugurationState of the Union, but I do agree that the president touched on several key issues. I am, however, concerned about the Keystone XL Pipeline and wished that he had talked about alternative energy.
As for the GOP, I think we see that Marco Rubio is merely oldwinewater in a new bottle.
fixxity!
And he did mention alternative energy.
I am deep into planning a lesson for the job I interviewed Friday. I figured that while I am waiting, I can work on a lesson plan for a PowerPoint (I am optimistic that I will get a call back, as I was the first person that they interviewed and I was with the assistant principal and the literacy coach for 45 minutes.)
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 15:58:33
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 15:58:33
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 15:58:36
that was kinda random.... I didn't know he worked in boston.
Raine on 02/13/2013 15:58:36
Quote by trojanrabbit:
I'm sorry. I really am...
3 people of note in this clip.
that was kinda random.... I didn't know he worked in boston.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 02/13/2013 16:01:02
It was in the back part of my mind, but I was searching for any old WCVB stuff (hoping for their Analog signoff) and that came up.
trojanrabbit on 02/13/2013 16:01:02
Quote by Raine:Quote by trojanrabbit:
I'm sorry. I really am...
3 people of note in this clip.
It was in the back part of my mind, but I was searching for any old WCVB stuff (hoping for their Analog signoff) and that came up.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 16:04:56
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 16:04:56
MILF has to be, in hindsight, the worst name ever from a revoltionary group. With the snark out of the way, this is a pretty big deal.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 16:12:11
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 16:12:11
oh btw what kind of permed, ferel squirrel was stapled Rand's head?
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 16:13:45
He must have gotten that from the Trump ® Hair Club for Men.
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 16:13:45
Quote by wickedpam:
oh btw what kind of permed, ferel squirrel was stapled Rand's head?
He must have gotten that from the Trump ® Hair Club for Men.
Comment by 
TriSec on 02/13/2013 16:19:47
TriSec on 02/13/2013 16:19:47
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 16:23:20
Raine on 02/13/2013 16:23:20
Rand paul.... you are a pip. a loon, and a loser.
The only stimulus ever proven to work is leaving more money in the hands of those who earned it!
For those who are struggling we want to you to have something infinitely more valuable than a free phone, we want you to have a job and pathway to success.
We are the party that embraces hard work and ingenuity, therefore we must be the party that embraces the immigrant who wants to come to America for a better future.
We must be the party who sees immigrants as assets, not liabilities.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 16:24:01
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 16:24:01
Comment by Scoopster on 02/13/2013 16:25:30
Scoopster on 02/13/2013 16:25:30
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 16:36:01
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 16:36:01
does anyone know why shockwave keeps crashing on chrome?
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 16:38:18
I thought it was just my laptop. Interesting.
Raine on 02/13/2013 16:38:18
Quote by wickedpam:
does anyone know why shockwave keeps crashing on chrome?
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 16:40:05
been happening for at least a month now - very frustrating
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 16:40:05
Quote by Raine:I thought it was just my laptop. Interesting.Quote by wickedpam:
does anyone know why shockwave keeps crashing on chrome?
been happening for at least a month now - very frustrating
Comment by TriSec on 02/13/2013 16:44:04
TriSec on 02/13/2013 16:44:04
This is a test; this is only a test. Fweeeeeep!
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 16:51:42
Did Chrome have an update? It's been about a month for me as well.
Raine on 02/13/2013 16:51:42
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:I thought it was just my laptop. Interesting.Quote by wickedpam:
does anyone know why shockwave keeps crashing on chrome?
been happening for at least a month now - very frustrating
Comment by BobR on 02/13/2013 16:53:02
You can see if your Chrome is up to date
BobR on 02/13/2013 16:53:02
Quote by Raine:Did Chrome have an update? It's been about a month for me as well.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:I thought it was just my laptop. Interesting.Quote by wickedpam:
does anyone know why shockwave keeps crashing on chrome?
been happening for at least a month now - very frustrating
You can see if your Chrome is up to date
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 16:53:37
I think so.
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 16:53:37
Quote by Raine:Did Chrome have an update? It's been about a month for me as well.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:I thought it was just my laptop. Interesting.Quote by wickedpam:
does anyone know why shockwave keeps crashing on chrome?
been happening for at least a month now - very frustrating
I think so.
Comment by 
livingonli on 02/13/2013 16:59:30
livingonli on 02/13/2013 16:59:30
Good morning, folks. I have been having the same problem with Shockwave crashing on Chrome as well which seems to happen when I load new comments or do any games on facebook. I was beginning to think my computer was just slow.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 17:12:21
Crude photoshopping at it's best!
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 17:12:21
Quote by Scoopster:
Crude photoshopping at it's best!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 17:50:18
Two words for you Speaker Sparky: Bull and shit. Prove it. Cite something that backs that up. Facts warped to fit your argument from "studies" by the AEI, Heritage and Cato don't count. Real academic economists only, please.
BTW there is a typo in the TPM copy, they spelled employment wrong.
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 17:50:18
Quote by Raine:
Boehner poo-poos the minimum wage hike.
"And when you raise the price of employment, guess what happens? You get less of it...
Two words for you Speaker Sparky: Bull and shit. Prove it. Cite something that backs that up. Facts warped to fit your argument from "studies" by the AEI, Heritage and Cato don't count. Real academic economists only, please.
BTW there is a typo in the TPM copy, they spelled employment wrong.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 17:51:58
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 17:51:58
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 18:06:12
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 18:06:12
so don't you hate it when you create something nice for the company, have 3 managers look at it to make sure everything is perfect, order the item, get it back and then have someone point out that the address isn't quite right 
so yeah -
so yeah -
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 18:32:30
I know I shouldn't laugh...
Raine on 02/13/2013 18:32:30
Quote by wickedpam:
so don't you hate it when you create something nice for the company, have 3 managers look at it to make sure everything is perfect, order the item, get it back and then have someone point out that the address isn't quite right
so yeah -
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 18:35:31
no, go ahead and laugh - the pic is too cute.
but yeah, I know how that baby feels
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 18:35:31
Quote by Raine:I know I shouldn't laugh...Quote by wickedpam:
so don't you hate it when you create something nice for the company, have 3 managers look at it to make sure everything is perfect, order the item, get it back and then have someone point out that the address isn't quite right
so yeah -
no, go ahead and laugh - the pic is too cute.
but yeah, I know how that baby feels
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 18:37:09
Raine on 02/13/2013 18:37:09
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 18:45:00
So about the fellow sitting next to Poopypants...
and when you see this, now you know why!
Raine on 02/13/2013 18:45:00
Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:Quote by BobR:
Did anyone hear if Nugent ever actually showed up?
Yes, he was way up near the top. Wore a brown jacket and jeans and sneakers.
Yep - looking like he was about to shit his pants... again.
and when you see this, now you know why!
Comment by Scoopster on 02/13/2013 18:45:03
All I can think about is Ralphie in the jumpsuit his aunt made.
Scoopster on 02/13/2013 18:45:03
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:I know I shouldn't laugh...Quote by wickedpam:
so don't you hate it when you create something nice for the company, have 3 managers look at it to make sure everything is perfect, order the item, get it back and then have someone point out that the address isn't quite right
so yeah -
no, go ahead and laugh - the pic is too cute.
but yeah, I know how that baby feels
All I can think about is Ralphie in the jumpsuit his aunt made.
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 19:12:02
Raine on 02/13/2013 19:12:02
So -- can someone tell me if I am the only one who felt as tho that cabin should not have been torn down last night wrt to the Dorner case?
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 19:17:27
it was torn down? guess they aren't going to preserve the crime scene
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 19:17:27
Quote by Raine:
So -- can someone tell me if I am the only one who felt as tho that cabin should not have been torn down last night wrt to the Dorner case?
it was torn down? guess they aren't going to preserve the crime scene
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 19:31:43
From the things I am reading -- they tore down 2-3 walls of the cabin and then threw tear gas in and that caught set the cabin on fire.
I was watching that before the SOTU last night, and I am willing to wait for more information, but it just seems off. I was ok with the no fly zone, with the understanding that Dorner may have been watching TV, but what I don't get is why they didn't cut off the utilities to the cabin. They treated this guy like he was Rambo -- and I don't think he was. He wasn't going to escape undercover of nightfall, he didn't have a bunch of ammunition stored in the cabin. He ran into the cabin after the vehicle he stole went into a ditch. (as far as I can tell -- once again, I am alwasy willing to be wrong.)
I wanted them to take this guy alive, only for one reason: he killed people and he didn't deserve to go out the way he wanted to. It reminded me of Jimmy Cagney's movie *White Heat* -- Top of the world Ma --
And as far as a crime scene, you make a damn good point, Mala. If the fire was accidental, due to tear gas issues, Why didn;t they try to get firefighters on the scene? Surely there were helicopters available, no?
I hope these things are answered.
Raine on 02/13/2013 19:31:43
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
So -- can someone tell me if I am the only one who felt as tho that cabin should not have been torn down last night wrt to the Dorner case?
it was torn down? guess they aren't going to preserve the crime scene
I was watching that before the SOTU last night, and I am willing to wait for more information, but it just seems off. I was ok with the no fly zone, with the understanding that Dorner may have been watching TV, but what I don't get is why they didn't cut off the utilities to the cabin. They treated this guy like he was Rambo -- and I don't think he was. He wasn't going to escape undercover of nightfall, he didn't have a bunch of ammunition stored in the cabin. He ran into the cabin after the vehicle he stole went into a ditch. (as far as I can tell -- once again, I am alwasy willing to be wrong.)
I wanted them to take this guy alive, only for one reason: he killed people and he didn't deserve to go out the way he wanted to. It reminded me of Jimmy Cagney's movie *White Heat* -- Top of the world Ma --
And as far as a crime scene, you make a damn good point, Mala. If the fire was accidental, due to tear gas issues, Why didn;t they try to get firefighters on the scene? Surely there were helicopters available, no?
I hope these things are answered.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 19:36:10
Don't think I ever realized tear gas could set something on fire.
it is very Cagney-esqe isn't it?
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 19:36:10
Quote by Raine:From the things I am reading -- they tore down 2-3 walls of the cabin and then threw tear gas in and that caught set the cabin on fire.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
So -- can someone tell me if I am the only one who felt as tho that cabin should not have been torn down last night wrt to the Dorner case?
it was torn down? guess they aren't going to preserve the crime scene
I was watching that before the SOTU last night, and I am willing to wait for more information, but it just seems off. I was ok with the no fly zone, with the understanding that Dorner may have been watching TV, but what I don't get is why they didn't cut off the utilities to the cabin. They treated this guy like he was Rambo -- and I don't think he was. He wasn't going to escape undercover of nightfall, he didn't have a bunch of ammunition stored in the cabin. He ran into the cabin after the vehicle he stole went into a ditch. (as far as I can tell -- once again, I am alwasy willing to be wrong.)
I wanted them to take this guy alive, only for one reason: he killed people and he didn't deserve to go out the way he wanted to. It reminded me of Jimmy Cagney's movie *White Heat* -- Top of the world Ma --
And as far as a crime scene, you make a damn good point, Mala. If the fire was accidental, due to tear gas issues, Why didn;t they try to get firefighters on the scene? Surely there were helicopters available, no?
I hope these things are answered.
Don't think I ever realized tear gas could set something on fire.
it is very Cagney-esqe isn't it?
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 20:04:47
Firefighters and bullets don't mix. The cops weren't anticipating the cabin catching on fire. They didn't know how much ammunition there might have been inside. The heat of the fire could cause the ammo to "cook off," meaning the propellant in the ammo could go off shooting bullets all over the place.
A crime scene isn't a crime scene until after the crime has been committed. So there is no need to preserve it until the shoot out is over. After all there are ton of people who will be writing reports about what happened prior to the place going up in flames.
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 20:04:47
Quote by Raine:From the things I am reading -- they tore down 2-3 walls of the cabin and then threw tear gas in and that caught set the cabin on fire.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
So -- can someone tell me if I am the only one who felt as tho that cabin should not have been torn down last night wrt to the Dorner case?
it was torn down? guess they aren't going to preserve the crime scene
I was watching that before the SOTU last night, and I am willing to wait for more information, but it just seems off. I was ok with the no fly zone, with the understanding that Dorner may have been watching TV, but what I don't get is why they didn't cut off the utilities to the cabin. They treated this guy like he was Rambo -- and I don't think he was. He wasn't going to escape undercover of nightfall, he didn't have a bunch of ammunition stored in the cabin. He ran into the cabin after the vehicle he stole went into a ditch. (as far as I can tell -- once again, I am alwasy willing to be wrong.)
I wanted them to take this guy alive, only for one reason: he killed people and he didn't deserve to go out the way he wanted to. It reminded me of Jimmy Cagney's movie *White Heat* -- Top of the world Ma --
And as far as a crime scene, you make a damn good point, Mala. If the fire was accidental, due to tear gas issues, Why didn;t they try to get firefighters on the scene? Surely there were helicopters available, no?
I hope these things are answered.
Firefighters and bullets don't mix. The cops weren't anticipating the cabin catching on fire. They didn't know how much ammunition there might have been inside. The heat of the fire could cause the ammo to "cook off," meaning the propellant in the ammo could go off shooting bullets all over the place.
A crime scene isn't a crime scene until after the crime has been committed. So there is no need to preserve it until the shoot out is over. After all there are ton of people who will be writing reports about what happened prior to the place going up in flames.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/13/2013 20:13:38
good point
wickedpam on 02/13/2013 20:13:38
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:From the things I am reading -- they tore down 2-3 walls of the cabin and then threw tear gas in and that caught set the cabin on fire.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
So -- can someone tell me if I am the only one who felt as tho that cabin should not have been torn down last night wrt to the Dorner case?
it was torn down? guess they aren't going to preserve the crime scene
I was watching that before the SOTU last night, and I am willing to wait for more information, but it just seems off. I was ok with the no fly zone, with the understanding that Dorner may have been watching TV, but what I don't get is why they didn't cut off the utilities to the cabin. They treated this guy like he was Rambo -- and I don't think he was. He wasn't going to escape undercover of nightfall, he didn't have a bunch of ammunition stored in the cabin. He ran into the cabin after the vehicle he stole went into a ditch. (as far as I can tell -- once again, I am alwasy willing to be wrong.)
I wanted them to take this guy alive, only for one reason: he killed people and he didn't deserve to go out the way he wanted to. It reminded me of Jimmy Cagney's movie *White Heat* -- Top of the world Ma --
And as far as a crime scene, you make a damn good point, Mala. If the fire was accidental, due to tear gas issues, Why didn;t they try to get firefighters on the scene? Surely there were helicopters available, no?
I hope these things are answered.
Firefighters and bullets don't mix. The cops weren't anticipating the cabin catching on fire. They didn't know how much ammunition there might have been inside. The heat of the fire could cause the ammo to "cook off," meaning the propellant in the ammo could go off shooting bullets all over the place.
A crime scene isn't a crime scene until after the crime has been committed. So there is no need to preserve it until the shoot out is over. After all there are ton of people who will be writing reports about what happened prior to the place going up in flames.
good point
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 20:39:52
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 20:39:52
Another point. There was no way in hell that the cops were going to take Dorner alive. He killed police.
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 21:01:38
I understand that, like I said, I had hoped he would be taken alive.
YOu know, they Larry Davis alive -- I don't think it had to be this way.
Raine on 02/13/2013 21:01:38
Quote by Mondobubba:
Another point. There was no way in hell that the cops were going to take Dorner alive. He killed police.
I understand that, like I said, I had hoped he would be taken alive.
YOu know, they Larry Davis alive -- I don't think it had to be this way.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 21:46:08
Given that this was the LAPD by proxy, combined with street rep they have about protected themselves and how cops in general react to a cop killer, Dorner going out in burning build a la the Sumbanese Liberation Army didn't shock me one bit.
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 21:46:08
Quote by Raine:Quote by Mondobubba:
Another point. There was no way in hell that the cops were going to take Dorner alive. He killed police.
I understand that, like I said, I had hoped he would be taken alive.
YOu know, they Larry Davis alive -- I don't think it had to be this way.
Given that this was the LAPD by proxy, combined with street rep they have about protected themselves and how cops in general react to a cop killer, Dorner going out in burning build a la the Sumbanese Liberation Army didn't shock me one bit.
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 21:50:13
Raine on 02/13/2013 21:50:13
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 21:54:23
Kinda proves Dorner's point, no?
The LAPD was involved, if I recall correctly they had equipment waiting to be called up at the Bernadino airport -- and that included the bunkerbuster thing (the piece of equipment used to tear down the walls of the cabin) -- they were called in.
Raine on 02/13/2013 21:54:23
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:Quote by Mondobubba:
Another point. There was no way in hell that the cops were going to take Dorner alive. He killed police.
I understand that, like I said, I had hoped he would be taken alive.
YOu know, they Larry Davis alive -- I don't think it had to be this way.
Given that this was the LAPD by proxy, combined with street rep they have about protected themselves and how cops in general react to a cop killer, Dorner going out in burning build a la the Sumbanese Liberation Army didn't shock me one bit.
Kinda proves Dorner's point, no?
The LAPD was involved, if I recall correctly they had equipment waiting to be called up at the Bernadino airport -- and that included the bunkerbuster thing (the piece of equipment used to tear down the walls of the cabin) -- they were called in.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 21:55:29
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 21:55:29
The LAPD official, Jack Webb burnished media reputation for professionalism is, for the most part, bullshit. It is one of the most violent, racist police forces in the country. When Bill Parker was the chief, he went out of his way to recruit men who had a military back round who were from the south. Parker was a stone racist and thought the best way to police the growing African-American population was by hiring brutal racists. I highly recommend To Protect and Serve. It is really great book about the myth of the LAPD.
Comment by livingonli on 02/13/2013 22:07:04
livingonli on 02/13/2013 22:07:04
And you have to wonder about the allegations that Domer had put out that an LAPD which has spent the last 20 years trying to clean up its rep which may turn out to have been no more than damage control after so much dirt came out. It is quite possible that some people may not have wanted to stand trial in case any of this information were to come out in trial. Not defending what Domer did, but they may not have wanted him to live to stand trial and went after him with excessive firepower.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 22:12:46
Yuuup! That has been something that I've been saying since this has started. In Dorner's crazy, there is a hard nugget of truth about the actions of the LAPD.
Mondobubba on 02/13/2013 22:12:46
Quote by Raine:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:Quote by Mondobubba:
Another point. There was no way in hell that the cops were going to take Dorner alive. He killed police.
I understand that, like I said, I had hoped he would be taken alive.
YOu know, they Larry Davis alive -- I don't think it had to be this way.
Given that this was the LAPD by proxy, combined with street rep they have about protected themselves and how cops in general react to a cop killer, Dorner going out in burning build a la the Sumbanese Liberation Army didn't shock me one bit.
Kinda proves Dorner's point, no?
The LAPD was involved, if I recall correctly they had equipment waiting to be called up at the Bernadino airport -- and that included the bunkerbuster thing (the piece of equipment used to tear down the walls of the cabin) -- they were called in.
Yuuup! That has been something that I've been saying since this has started. In Dorner's crazy, there is a hard nugget of truth about the actions of the LAPD.
Comment by BobR on 02/13/2013 22:15:10
Remember Waco? I'm sure the cops did.
BobR on 02/13/2013 22:15:10
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:From the things I am reading -- they tore down 2-3 walls of the cabin and then threw tear gas in and that caught set the cabin on fire.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
So -- can someone tell me if I am the only one who felt as tho that cabin should not have been torn down last night wrt to the Dorner case?
it was torn down? guess they aren't going to preserve the crime scene
I was watching that before the SOTU last night, and I am willing to wait for more information, but it just seems off. I was ok with the no fly zone, with the understanding that Dorner may have been watching TV, but what I don't get is why they didn't cut off the utilities to the cabin. They treated this guy like he was Rambo -- and I don't think he was. He wasn't going to escape undercover of nightfall, he didn't have a bunch of ammunition stored in the cabin. He ran into the cabin after the vehicle he stole went into a ditch. (as far as I can tell -- once again, I am alwasy willing to be wrong.)
I wanted them to take this guy alive, only for one reason: he killed people and he didn't deserve to go out the way he wanted to. It reminded me of Jimmy Cagney's movie *White Heat* -- Top of the world Ma --
And as far as a crime scene, you make a damn good point, Mala. If the fire was accidental, due to tear gas issues, Why didn;t they try to get firefighters on the scene? Surely there were helicopters available, no?
I hope these things are answered.
Don't think I ever realized tear gas could set something on fire.
it is very Cagney-esqe isn't it?
Remember Waco? I'm sure the cops did.
Comment by Raine on 02/13/2013 22:26:00
I'm not defending him either.
The LAPD has a martyr on his hand with his being killed.
Raine on 02/13/2013 22:26:00
Quote by livingonli:
And you have to wonder about the allegations that Domer had put out that an LAPD which has spent the last 20 years trying to clean up its rep which may turn out to have been no more than damage control after so much dirt came out. It is quite possible that some people may not have wanted to stand trial in case any of this information were to come out in trial. Not defending what Domer did, but they may not have wanted him to live to stand trial and went after him with excessive firepower.
The LAPD has a martyr on his hand with his being killed.