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Enhanced Legal Maneuvering
Author: BobR    Date: 12/12/2008 13:39:38

Torture is one of those topics that always seems to prompt a discussion. Nobody really says they're FOR torture, but people seem to disagree on what does or doesn't deserve that appellation. It's become clear that the U.S. - whether you call it torture or "enhanced interrogation techniques" - tortured prisoners in its care. We all pretty much knew who okayed it.

The Senate Armed Services Committee released a report yesterday that confirmed what everyone already knew: Rumsfeld is to blame for torture:
A report released Thursday by leaders of the Senate Armed Services Committee said top Bush administration officials, including Donald H. Rumsfeld, the former defense secretary, bore major responsibility for the abuses committed by American troops in interrogations at Abu Ghraib in Iraq; Guantánamo Bay, Cuba; and other military detention centers.

The report was issued jointly by Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the Democratic chairman of the panel, and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the top Republican. It represents the most thorough review by Congress to date of the origins of the abuse of prisoners in American military custody, and it explicitly rejects the Bush administration’s contention that tough interrogation methods have helped keep the country and its troops safe.

The report also rejected previous claims by Mr. Rumsfeld and others that Defense Department policies played no role in the harsh treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 and in other episodes of abuse.

The abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the report says, “was not simply the result of a few soldiers acting on their own” but grew out of interrogation policies approved by Mr. Rumsfeld and other top officials, who “conveyed the message that physical pressures and degradation were appropriate treatment for detainees.”
(bold-face mine...)

So what do we do with this? Rumsfeld is gone, but surely something can be done? What about all the prisoners in Gitmo? Surely we can get them to testify in court about their treatment?

Maybe not. In an apparent effort to ensure their martyrdom, the top echelon of prisoners are pleading guilty before they can be tried by what would likely be a fair system under Obama's Justice Dept., including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, often described as the mastermind of 9/11, and four other prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay told a military judge on Monday that they wish to plead guilty to all charges.

Law professor Jonathan Turley sees this confession as a "strange alliance" between Mohammed and George W. Bush, where both men get what they want -- martyrdom in Mohammed's case and vindication in Bush's -- and President-elect Barack Obama is stuck in the middle with a dilemma on his hands.
[...]
"Could it be that they want to beat the clock?" Maddow asked. "They want to make sure they are convicted, and probably executed, under Bush's tribunal system because that feels more like martyrdom to them than risking going into an actual non-kangaroo court trial in a real legal system?"

"What Khalid Sheikh Mohammed just did is to hand George Bush a considerable victory," Turley replied. "We were very close in his case to addressing the fact that he was tortured and ... that his case was put in the spotlight on the gross unfairness of the Bush tribunal system. And he essentially took all that off the table and saved the Bush administration the need to answer to those charges."

So Khalid gets to be a martyr, Bush gets off scot-free, and Obama is left holding a bag full of very smelly legal poo. To make matters more difficult, he has people in his corner that apparently support "torture-lite":
From change-you-can-believe-in we seem to be slipping back to fear-you-can-trade-on. Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas, chair of the House Intelligence Committee, has publicly warned those in charge of the administration transition that "continuity is going to be pivotal in keeping us safe and secure." Thus, he argues, National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell and CIA Director Michael Hayden should stay in their posts.

If that were not enough, Reyes told Congress Daily's Chris Strohm, that he (Reyes) had advised the Obama team that some parts of what Strohm referred to as "CIA's controversial alternative interrogation program" should be allowed to continue. Using some of the same euphemisms and circumlocutions employed by the ersatz-lawyers hired by President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, Reyes fired this shot across the bow of Barack Obama's transition ship:

"It gets back to a world that is very dangerous...there are some options that need to be available...We don't want to be known for torturing people. At the same time, we don't want to limit our ability to get information that's vital and critical to our national security. That's where the new administration is going to have to decide what those parameters are, what those limitations are."

So what now? In the same article quoted above, "Lt. Gen. John Kimmons, a career intelligence officer and expert in interrogations" points out what the new Army Field Manual says about torture:
-Interrogators may not force a detainee to be naked, perform sexual acts or pose in a sexual manner;

-They cannot use hoods or place sacks over a detainee's head or use duct tape over his eyes;

-They cannot beat or electrically shock or burn them or inflict other forms of physical pain-any form of physical pain;

-They may not use water boarding, hypothermia, or treatment which will lead to heat injury;

-They will not perform mock executions;

-They may not deprive detainees of the necessary food, water, and medical care; and

-They may not use dogs in any aspect of interrogation.

The CIA doesn't like the idea that they may have to abide by these rules. It's up to Obama to stand strong against those in his own party and ensure that it does. He can wash away the stain left by Bush in the first 8 years of 21st century, and return the United States to its former status.

 

78 comments (Latest Comment: 12/12/2008 23:58:08 by Random)
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Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 13:54:28
Morning, comrades!



Boy, does it suck here today! But maybe it will clear off by lunchtime...



Here's a traffic tip: Drop your iPod on the floor of the car. (I playback through an FM transmitter). From the second you drop it until you reach your destination, you won't hit a red light; I guarantee it. (It also helps if you have a manual transmission and you drop it under your clutch foot.)





Comment by trojanrabbit on 12/12/2008 13:58:54
I've done that Tri, but with a cellphone instead, though mine fell under the accellerator.

Comment by trojanrabbit on 12/12/2008 14:00:54
BTW, it's rain where I live, but here near the NH border there's lots of ice on the trees and power lines, most of the power is out (we've had one brief outage that just served to screw up every PC and test station), very few of my co-workers are here.



So I'm at the Fortress of Solitude hoping the trees lining the access road don't come down and I'm catching up on nearly a week's worth of SMS.

Comment by wickedpam on 12/12/2008 14:03:18
Morning :hug:





Hey way to go there Senate Repub's way to kill a few more American cities and way to tell the American worker to F-off. Asshats.

Comment by trojanrabbit on 12/12/2008 14:12:43
Good morning Pam :hug:



Isn't there a way we can have all Republicans executed for treason?



If Reid had any guts he'd threaten to bring down the same "nucular" option the Rethugs held over our heads just a few years ago. Watch the Rethugs cry their eyes out to Rush and Hannity and every place else on Faux Noise.

Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 14:22:02
I'm curious about the "not voting" that I saw on the roll.



Joe Biden I could maybe understand.



Ted Kennedy, maybe. But his health has been good recently.



Where the hell was John Kerry?





Comment by wickedpam on 12/12/2008 14:35:01
Quote by trojanrabbit:

Good morning Pam :hug:



Isn't there a way we can have all Republicans executed for treason?



If Reid had any guts he'd threaten to bring down the same "nucular" option the Rethugs held over our heads just a few years ago. Watch the Rethugs cry their eyes out to Rush and Hannity and every place else on Faux Noise.






He's too much the diplomat, he won't pull out those options.



Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 14:43:07
I noticed that on last night's Countdown, Keith was also calling him "President Obama".





Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 14:54:53
"We cannot ask the American Taxpayer to subsidize failure."



Why not? We already pay the President's salary...





Comment by trojanrabbit on 12/12/2008 14:59:21
Quote by TriSec:

"We cannot ask the American Taxpayer to subsidize failure."



Why not? We already pay the President's salary...





Let alone a sizeable part of the Financial industry.



Comment by starling310 on 12/12/2008 15:01:10
Quote by TriSec:

Morning, comrades!



Boy, does it suck here today! But maybe it will clear off by lunchtime...



Here's a traffic tip: Drop your iPod on the floor of the car. (I playback through an FM transmitter). From the second you drop it until you reach your destination, you won't hit a red light; I guarantee it. (It also helps if you have a manual transmission and you drop it under your clutch foot.)







:rofl:



This is also true if it's 1,000 degrees out and you want to put your hair in an elastic while driving. . . no red lights!



Comment by wickedpam on 12/12/2008 15:07:58
Why is it whenever KPHX plays excerpts from Pres Obama acceptance speech I get all freakin' teary

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 15:26:52
Good morning everyone! :donut:

Comment by wickedpam on 12/12/2008 15:34:28
MGM shout out :D

Comment by trojanrabbit on 12/12/2008 15:36:34
Morning Raine

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 15:44:33
Saya trojan I see the hudson Valley in NY wasn't the only area that got hit with that Ice storm.

Comment by trojanrabbit on 12/12/2008 15:53:14
Yeah Raine, at work here I'm right on the edge of the ice. Lots of people didn't come to work as there's lots of trees down and lots of power outages. Where I live fortunately it was all rain and warm enough so there was no ice buildup.



I hear a state of emergency was called in NH and MA (if so why am I here?)

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 15:54:48
you sir, are a trooper. I used to drive in show, but the frozen stuff? No way, no how.

Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 15:57:55
I'm in Boston Metro; it was exclusively a rain event along the coast. We had a few flooded streets and blocked drains in Waltham, but no widespread damages or power loss.



News from the Globe...





"There's tons and tons of debris out there, which is impacting the utilities' ability to restore power," said Peter Judge, spokesman for the Massachusetts Emergency Management Agency. "It's as bad as we've seen at least over the last 10 years."



No deaths or serious injuries have been reported, and officials are still determining how much havoc the storm caused. Governor Deval Patrick has declared a state of emergency, which allows him to mobilize state resources. A press conference has been scheduled at the emergency management operations center in Framingham.



“I have never seen anything like this in 30 years,” said Deputy Chief Peter Bergstrom of the Holden Fire Department, where the entire town is without power.









Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 15:58:31
:modbat: ok caller... do NOT poke a stick in the producer. :P

Comment by BobR on 12/12/2008 15:59:45
hey folks - just as an FYI, I will be uploading some more changes once the SMS is over. I've added a tag for FaceCrack, but will be making a few more changes to make it work better, as well as make us more visible to the googlebots, etc... :nerd:

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 16:01:33
The senate GOP are simply Unamerican. They voted to protect foreign companies over American jobs last night.

Comment by wickedpam on 12/12/2008 16:03:15
Quote by BobR:

hey folks - just as an FYI, I will be uploading some more changes once the SMS is over. I've added a tag for FaceCrack, but will be making a few more changes to make it work better, as well as make us more visible to the googlebots, etc... :nerd:




Look at us gettin' all fancy and connected :D





Comment by trojanrabbit on 12/12/2008 16:10:42
Quote by Raine:

you sir, are a trooper. I used to drive in show, but the frozen stuff? No way, no how.


Not THAT muchof a trooper, the roads are wet, it's just freezing on the trees and power lines.

Comment by wickedpam on 12/12/2008 16:14:00
wet lands, sun tan lotion and bike tires

Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 16:14:43
Heh. Seems like some college rivalry going on there...



Don't ever confuse BC with BU in this city. Natives generally don't but out-of-towners...





Comment by trojanrabbit on 12/12/2008 16:19:45
Well, we're being kicked outta here for the day, so after I secure the Fortress, I'm on my way home. WHHEEEEEEEE! Now, if only I could receive the SMS on the radio around here...

Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 16:20:06
Years ago, I heard an xmas tune on WERS (Emerson College Radio) that I've been looking for ever since...



"Santa Claus is Smoking Reefers"











Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 16:21:07




Morning all.. Well, the monsoon has stopped here in Little Rhody. Though there's some stress on the little part, 'cause after this mess we probably lost part of Newport and Narragansett. :lol:

Comment by livingonli on 12/12/2008 16:22:02
Good morning everyone.



Thanks to the heavy rain last night, I had another night of crappy sleep. I do think I also need a new mattress.

Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 16:22:45
Quote by TriSec:

Years ago, I heard an xmas tune on WERS (Emerson College Radio) that I've been looking for ever since...



"Santa Claus is Smoking Reefers"


:O That's a tune by neo-swing gods the Squirrel Nut Zippers! I used to have that album..



Edit: It's a hidden track on their 1997 album "Sold Out!"

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 16:25:50
:prince: They are playing "Cream" as a bumper!!!

Comment by trojanrabbit on 12/12/2008 16:27:40
Quote by TriSec:

Heh. Seems like some college rivalry going on there...



Don't ever confuse BC with BU in this city. Natives generally don't but out-of-towners...







Heh heh



Waaaay way back, when I was in high school, our band did a halftime show at Nickerson Field - the teams were BU and Northeastern.



Little did I know at the time that I'd end up going to Northeastern.



Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 16:34:03
Quote by Scoopster:



:O That's a tune by neo-swing gods the Squirrel Nut Zippers! I used to have that album..



Edit: It's a hidden track on their 1997 album "Sold Out!"




Heh.



I was just digging around....actually, that's a cover. It was originally recorded in 1945 by Johnny Guarnieri. (Big-Band era pianist)







Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 16:35:14
Heh.. I bet everyone's off to look for that album now too. Well slow down.. It's on iTunes for 10 bucks, with the hidden tracks too.



On the other hand, I'm looking for SNZ's discography on Demonoid. :D

Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 16:36:13
Quote by TriSec:

Quote by Scoopster:

:O That's a tune by neo-swing gods the Squirrel Nut Zippers! I used to have that album..



Edit: It's a hidden track on their 1997 album "Sold Out!"


Heh.



I was just digging around....actually, that's a cover. It was originally recorded in 1945 by Johnny Guarnieri. (Big-Band era pianist)


Oooh.. I'll hafta find that version too then!

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 16:37:00
can you get the song individually?

Comment by BobR on 12/12/2008 16:39:08
Quote by livingonli:

Good morning everyone.



Thanks to the heavy rain last night, I had another night of crappy sleep. I do think I also need a new mattress.


Considering most people spend 1/3 of their entire lives on their mattress, people should spare no expense on getting a good one.



Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 16:39:32
Someone needs to get the credit lines back to the damn Auto industry!

Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 16:48:30
Quote by Raine:

can you get the song individually?


Well, it doesn't look like it either way I saw.. On iTunes the last track contains the hidden songs and is marked as "Album Only", and in the discography I'm downloading now the last track & hidden songs are all a single MP3. I suppose they can be separated out manually but I don't have the software to do it (Maybe Shane-O does?)

Comment by wickedpam on 12/12/2008 16:55:12
Hmmm - with all the updates maybe we should be on twitter too.

Comment by livingonli on 12/12/2008 16:56:59
What would happen if Charles Krauthammer had to live according to the ideas he proselytizes? Wouldn't he have also met an early death?

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 17:02:21
Quote by wickedpam:

Hmmm - with all the updates maybe we should be on twitter too.


Usually when we post a new blog, I twitter it, I was thinking about setting up a 4F twitter.

Comment by wickedpam on 12/12/2008 17:07:51
Quote by Raine:

Quote by wickedpam:

Hmmm - with all the updates maybe we should be on twitter too.


Usually when we post a new blog, I twitter it, I was thinking about setting up a 4F twitter.




That's what I was thinking someone should do.



Esp. since I pretty recently discovered twitter ;)



Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 17:13:22
Why does Bernie sound like he is whispering in a library?

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 17:16:46
VERY good news for Al Franken!!



Al Franken's chances of winning the Minnesota recount may have just gone up astronomically.



The state canvassing board just voted unanimously that absentee ballots that were initially rejected because of clerical errors -- and the current estimate from the hearing is that there could be nearly 1,600 of them, based on some extrapolation -- should be counted, probably the single biggest issue that the Franken campaign has been hammering ever since this recount began, and which really seemed up in the air going into this hearing.



The board can't directly order the county officials to do the counting, only making a formal request to go back and count the votes and then submit amended totals. But many counties have already begun or finished the process of sorting the rejected absentees at the board's request, and board members did castigate any election officials who wouldn't do so, with some of them even leaving open the option of seeking a court order if necessary. [...]



(more at the link! )

Comment by livingonli on 12/12/2008 17:19:28
I'm just getting used to Facebook. Should I join Twitter too?

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 17:19:45
8 years ago today... the SCOTUS decided to hijack American election. Today is a bad day in history.



Also ,today SCOTUS will decide whether or not to deal with another one of those kookie Obama Birth certificate cases. I think this one is from Connecticut.

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 17:21:28
Could you imagine buying this used Blackberry?



And that man wanted America to trust with with National Security????

Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 17:24:34
Urgh.. I'm arguing with some idiot over here on why EFCA is necessary.



The whole thread is actually really good.

Comment by Raine on 12/12/2008 17:26:50
Pentagon May Have Mixed Propaganda With PR





Why is it that I am seeing more and more stories like this? Have we not all been screaming about this kind of stuff for years? It's the same with Bob's blog today... The Story about Rumsfeld...







Comment by BobR on 12/12/2008 17:29:33
Quote by BobR:

hey folks - just as an FYI, I will be uploading some more changes once the SMS is over. I've added a tag for FaceCrack, but will be making a few more changes to make it work better, as well as make us more visible to the googlebots, etc... :nerd:


allrighty - the changes are in place.

Comment by wickedpam on 12/12/2008 17:31:10
Quote by livingonli:

I'm just getting used to Facebook. Should I join Twitter too?




it depends - I'm just getting used to it myself see if it's something you could use



http://twitter.com/wickedm





Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 18:09:18
Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 18:23:17
Another online app? I hardly hang around FaceCrack...never got into Second Life, don't use MySpace or the other sites.



*sigh* 4-F and plane porn dork, front and center!



(hey, it beats *actual* porn. Or not. )





Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 18:52:15
So ok let me get this shit straight here..



Senate Repubs use the waaah-unions excuse to deny a vote on the auto industry rescue package.. Then Bush gets to look like a fucking white knight by using funds from TARP..



Uhh.. did the Senate Dems just get played like a deck of cards on this?

Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 18:56:53
Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 19:12:02
Well, retail hasn't destroyed Christmas music for me yet.



I 'closed the store' last night, and they cut off the music at 10pm when they locked the doors....the place was as quiet as a tomb, which was a little weird after the early evening rush.



Anyway, if you want something different, give this a listen.



http://www.wonderchristmas.com/clipart/christmas_clipart14.gif


Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 19:37:44
Have I mentioned that I hate "The little Drummer boy" in all of his manifestations?



Pa-rum-pum-pum THIS, pal! :modbat:





Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 19:38:31
AAAAAH! Sudden ball of light in the sky is blinding meeeeeee!

Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 19:45:10
Curiously, the Dow is down only 14 points at this hour....



Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 20:09:47




I hate our new coffee machine.



My mug doesn't fit.



Nobody....NOBODY messes with the TriSec's coffee and lives to tell the tale!



:modbat:

Comment by livingonli on 12/12/2008 20:15:51
Time to go get encased in salt again.

Comment by Shane-O on 12/12/2008 20:17:49
Quote by Scoopster:

So ok let me get this shit straight here..



Senate Repubs use the waaah-unions excuse to deny a vote on the auto industry rescue package.. Then Bush gets to look like a fucking white knight by using funds from TARP..



Uhh.. did the Senate Dems just get played like a deck of cards on this?




Just a drive-by here (sorry - crazy day).



I think this is more than trying to be a "white knight."



This is about the rest of the $350 billion that Congress has the power to block -- e.g. Rep. Waters saying "not one dollar more."



Ya see - (to quote a now infamous governor) - Bush has this fuckin' thing - and it's fuckin' golden. And he's not just going to give it away. The people just want to show him appreciation - fuck them.



He wants the other $350 Billion (there's only 15 or so left in the first 350 - which I'm sure will be gone by Monday when Bush plans to make an announcement).



So Congress gets to choose - give Wall Street $350 Billion minus $14 Billion, or lose 3 million jobs.



No surprise that the Dow is going up....



Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 20:44:00
WAHOOOOOOOO!








Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 20:56:11
Quote by Shane-O:

Quote by Scoopster:

So ok let me get this shit straight here..



Senate Repubs use the waaah-unions excuse to deny a vote on the auto industry rescue package.. Then Bush gets to look like a fucking white knight by using funds from TARP..



Uhh.. did the Senate Dems just get played like a deck of cards on this?




Just a drive-by here (sorry - crazy day).



I think this is more than trying to be a "white knight."



This is about the rest of the $350 billion that Congress has the power to block -- e.g. Rep. Waters saying "not one dollar more."



Ya see - (to quote a now infamous governor) - Bush has this fuckin' thing - and it's fuckin' golden. And he's not just going to give it away. The people just want to show him appreciation - fuck them.



He wants the other $350 Billion (there's only 15 or so left in the first 350 - which I'm sure will be gone by Monday when Bush plans to make an announcement).



So Congress gets to choose - give Wall Street $350 Billion minus $14 Billion, or lose 3 million jobs.



No surprise that the Dow is going up....


Heh.. well said Shane. Good eye on that one.

Comment by Mondobubba on 12/12/2008 21:00:52
Quote by TriSec:

Have I mentioned that I hate "The little Drummer boy" in all of his manifestations?



Pa-rum-pum-pum THIS, pal! :modbat:







Tri, getting his Grinch on! Well done, Sir, well done indeed! :clap:

Comment by Mondobubba on 12/12/2008 21:11:14






Yeah, Scoop there are bastions of organized labor down this away. Jacksonville believe it or not has a strong union presence. We have a big Teamster local (they represent all the folks at both UPS and the Bud brewery), since we have an active port, the ILA is strong here as is the IBEW (Internation Brotherhood of Electrical Workers). I think there is strong contingent of the Steam and pipe fitters too. There is a lot of shipyardy type stuff and those guys are very unionized.

Comment by TriSec on 12/12/2008 21:20:22
Heading home....



No store tonight, I've got to wrangle Cub Scouts this evening. I have no idea what I'm doing with them.





Comment by clintster on 12/12/2008 21:28:05
Hmmm...



Red Sox getting new unis. Whaddaya think, sirs?

Comment by Mondobubba on 12/12/2008 21:30:43
Quote by clintster:

Hmmm...



Red Sox getting new unis. Whaddaya think, sirs?






Comment by Mondobubba on 12/12/2008 21:31:38
Quote by TriSec:

Heading home....



No store tonight, I've got to wrangle Cub Scouts this evening. I have no idea what I'm doing with them.









:Frankenstein: Fire good!

Comment by Mondobubba on 12/12/2008 21:51:00
Dexter Bodybag Toss.



This so wrong on so many levels. :rofl:

Comment by Mondobubba on 12/12/2008 22:01:04
Scoop sent ya lil note via the Facecrack.

Comment by Random on 12/12/2008 23:13:30
Reason # 223 Greta Van Susteren is too crazy for a mental institution.



Comment by Scoopster on 12/12/2008 23:22:16
Quote by Mondobubba:

Scoop sent ya lil note via the Facecrack.


Oooh.. let me take a looksie!





Aaaaaand replied! Happy hunting! (and sorry for the wall o' text!)

Comment by BobR on 12/12/2008 23:28:39
Quote by Random:

Reason # 223 Greta Van Susteren is too crazy for a mental institution.



link no workee :(

Comment by Random on 12/12/2008 23:58:08
Quote by BobR:

Quote by Random:

Reason # 223 Greta Van Susteren is too crazy for a mental institution.



link no workee :(


Try now...