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Groping Grandma
Author: BobR    Date: 11/19/2010 12:20:10

We've always traversed a fine line between security and liberty here in the United States. Since 9/11, we (as a nation) seem to be more and more willing to surrender liberties hoping that it will keep us safe from harm (ie: terrorists). Besides the obvious implication that the terrorists have won by our doing so (see TriSec's blog on the topic), these intrusions have consistently been met with "well - if you have nothing to hide... what's the problem?". Apparently, we do have something to hide, and it's why we wear clothes. The revolt against personal intrusion has begun.

There have been some rumblings recently about the "full body scanners" (dubbed "porno scanners" by some brilliant person), and the alternative - groping. The doodoo will hit the proverbial fan next week as the busiest travel week gets underway, and large numbers of the American public get to experience this first-hand:
While bad weather is usually the biggest threat to holiday travel, there's a bigger concern this year: new Transportation Security Administration procedures, including full-body scans and aggressive pat-downs that have screeners feeling inside waistbands and touching all the way up legs and on breasts.

The body scanners—385 of them now deployed at 68 airports—have raised privacy and radiation-exposure concerns. And the pat-downs, which started Nov. 1, have drawn fire from travel groups, lawmakers, civil-rights advocates, and pilot and flight-attendant unions.
[...]
Previously, TSA screeners just did a cursory check with the back of their hand, avoiding sensitive areas. Now, anyone who sets off a metal detector, refuses to go through a full-body scan, or has anything on his or her body that the scanner picks up will get the new, more-thorough pat-down procedure.

Yeah, just wait until Grandma or daughter Judy comes to the realization that their two choices are to have some anonymous TSA agent see them essentially naked or probe their crotch, and I imagine there will be scenes of outraged mayhem in all 68 of those airports.

The rumblings of discord have already percolated up to Congress where a Republican House Rep (Ted Poe R-TX) has finally had the nerve to call it what it is: a violation of our 4th amendment rights:
"[T]he populace is giving up more rights in the name of alleged security. These body scanners are a violation of the Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches and seizures ... There must be a better way to have security at airports than taking pornographic photographs of our citizens, including children, and then giving apparent kickbacks to political hacks."

Ron Paul (R-TX) is introducing a bill that would make TSA agents legally liable for groping. Considering that they are at the bottom of the food chain and just following orders, I think this is the wrong approach. A better one would make the procedures illegal, so that the TSA itself would be liable. Go for the head of the beast rather than its tail, so to speak...

In response to the building uproar, NYC is looking at replacing the TSA at it's airports, and a FL Congressman (John Mica R-FL) is asking airports nationwide to do the same. While this is an understandable knee-jerk reaction (and a conservative's dream - privatizing a government function), what are the implications of that?

Consider that prior to 9/11, ALL airports had private security. They came from different companies and had different levels of quality and training. I've been around long enough to remember the stories of incompetence, rudeness, and theft that occurred at the security gates prior to the TSA taking over the responsibility. The creation of the TSA (in reaction to and just one week after 9/11) occurred in that frenzy of over-reaction to the attacks and - despite my snarky comment about conservatives - was actually created by Republicans and signed into law by then-President Bush.

So what's the answer? Eliminating the TSA or making it's employees criminally liable for following orders is not going to make things better. I would rather not return to the patchwork of security we had previously, and making agents worry about prosecution will create nervous agents that will be essentially ineffective.

The scanners and groping DO have to go. While I am against racial profiling, I can support increased scrutiny for travelers who have gone to and from certain countries AND do not fall into certain categories (like 10 year olds). As is often said - Israel keeps their travelers safe by interviewing each one. While that is not practical (although it would increase employment - use the money spent on those machines), a lot could be done using automated pre-check-in computer checks. Those that have questionable hits get extra scrutiny, and an interview. Once cleared, their electronic record should be updated as well to prevent a recurrence.

The TSA was actually a good idea to ensure standards and consistency. It has overgrown its charter however, and the beast needs to be put back in its cage. Not slain, just tamed.

 

64 comments (Latest Comment: 11/21/2010 21:00:23 by Randall)
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Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 13:32:34
Good morning!

Does anyone know where I can find a list of the Airports that have these scanners?

Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 13:37:03
Quote by Raine:
Good morning!

Does anyone know where I can find a list of the Airports that have these scanners?

I found this:


List of Airport Alternatives without Full Body Scanners

and this

List of Airport Alternatives WITH Full Body Scanners

Comment by wickedpam on 11/19/2010 14:14:22
Morning

The is the one of the major reason's why I've pretty much ruled out going on next year's sales trip. For a person of size, flying is a humiliating and stressful event as it is, now you want to add what I've heard it referred to as and what I believe it to be, sexual assult on top of that stress. I can't do it.

And all I've heard lately from people is "well if it keeps us safer..." blah, blah, blah... its not it making us paranoid and neutoric - how is that safer?

I've heard it would been extremly difficult to implement what they have in Israel. One of the things I've heard they do, is profile the behavior of everyone that comes to the airports there.

Why can't we have the best of what they do and the best of what we do? THere has to be a way

Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 14:18:38
You know, I am pretty sure Bomb sniffing dogs would be a lot safer than those damn machines.

Comment by wickedpam on 11/19/2010 14:20:53
Quote by Raine:
You know, I am pretty sure Bomb sniffing dogs would be a lot safer than those damn machines.



definatly

Comment by TriSec on 11/19/2010 14:34:28
Morning, comrades!

While I hold out little hope that "National Opt-Out Day" will gain any traction among the masses next week, could you imagine if all the flight crews decided to opt-out?

Just picture all the flight crews waiting in a massively long line for the pat-downs, while all the flights just sit at the gate with nobody to drive them.

Americans will put up with a lot...just don't make us late.

Anyway...


Comment by wickedpam on 11/19/2010 14:57:10
MNRN shout out

Comment by TriSec on 11/19/2010 15:37:53
Well gang, I've gone and re-upped with Momma, and tested the stream. All is well, although I'm a bit leery of actually connecting and listening for hours at a time.

I was also idly thinking about how we could tie the Bible into the porno-scanners, but the only thing I could find in the Christian Bible was in support of it. (They were naked, and they were not ashamed...)

Of course, there's reams of print about female modesty in the Quran, but that would make the right's head explode, wouldn't it?



Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 15:42:19
Quote by wickedpam:
MNRN shout out

I missed it!


Comment by wickedpam on 11/19/2010 15:46:31
So it was Ford?

Comment by wickedpam on 11/19/2010 15:46:52
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:
MNRN shout out

I missed it!


it was just a Sedaka thing


Comment by Mondobubba on 11/19/2010 15:46:53
:mutes Jim Ward and Jesse the Body: You know how I feel about that idiotic conspiracy horseshit.

Good morning everybody.

Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 15:49:14
*sigh*




Comment by BobR on 11/19/2010 15:50:22
Quote by Mondobubba:
:mutes Jim Ward and Jesse the Body: You know how I feel about that idiotic conspiracy horseshit.

Good morning everybody.

That confession was in Rolling Stone over a year ago.

Comment by wickedpam on 11/19/2010 15:51:19
Quote by Mondobubba:
:mutes Jim Ward and Jesse the Body: You know how I feel about that idiotic conspiracy horseshit.

Good morning everybody.



I feel the same way, but I do enjoy Jesse - I think it stems from all the years of hearing Mike O'Meara doing his impression of the Gov. Its hysterical

Comment by Mondobubba on 11/19/2010 15:55:13
That was a total waste of a segment of Momma's show.

Comment by Mondobubba on 11/19/2010 15:55:47
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Mondobubba:
:mutes Jim Ward and Jesse the Body: You know how I feel about that idiotic conspiracy horseshit.

Good morning everybody.

That confession was in Rolling Stone over a year ago.


What "confession" was that, Bob?

Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 16:00:58
wow. that is too funny. hot mic are awesome sometimes.

Comment by Mondobubba on 11/19/2010 16:05:17
Quote by Raine:
wow. that is too funny. hot mic are awesome sometimes.


I got to read a transcript yesterday, but wow the audio is so much better. You can really savor the mean snark.

Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 16:07:14
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
wow. that is too funny. hot mic are awesome sometimes.


I got to read a transcript yesterday, but wow the audio is so much better. You can really savor the mean snark.
where did you see it?


Comment by Mondobubba on 11/19/2010 16:07:56
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
wow. that is too funny. hot mic are awesome sometimes.


I got to read a transcript yesterday, but wow the audio is so much better. You can really savor the mean snark.
where did you see it?


It yesterday's Salon. I'm sure it's still there.

Comment by Mondobubba on 11/19/2010 16:10:03
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
wow. that is too funny. hot mic are awesome sometimes.


I got to read a transcript yesterday, but wow the audio is so much better. You can really savor the mean snark.
where did you see it?


It yesterday's Salon. I'm sure it's still there.


Or not...I read a lot of online media. Could have been Slate or Alternet. Heck it might have been in the Guardian.

Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 16:24:48
Comment by BobR on 11/19/2010 16:45:39
Quote by Mondobubba:

Quote by BobR:

Quote by Mondobubba:

:mutes Jim Ward and Jesse the Body: You know how I feel about that idiotic conspiracy horseshit.



Good morning everybody.


That confession was in Rolling Stone over a year ago.




What "confession" was that, Bob?


The guy worked for the CIA (don't remember the guy's name). He confessed to his son on his deathbed. This came out probably mid-summer last year.



EDIT: Here it is: E. Howard Hunt

Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 16:51:12
Comment by BobR on 11/19/2010 16:58:56
Quote by Raine:
I found it!


bee-yoo-tee-full!

Comment by livingonli on 11/19/2010 17:03:31
Good morning all.

Well thanks to one other hurdle and the impound lot having to get my car out from behind 10 others so I have to go back today. At least the madness is finally coming to an end after considerable expense.

Comment by wickedpam on 11/19/2010 17:06:52
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning all.

Well thanks to one other hurdle and the impound lot having to get my car out from behind 10 others so I have to go back today. At least the madness is finally coming to an end after considerable expense.



They're aren't going to charge you for another day are they? I mean it was they're fault that it was blocked.

Comment by Mondobubba on 11/19/2010 17:07:18
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Mondobubba:
:mutes Jim Ward and Jesse the Body: You know how I feel about that idiotic conspiracy horseshit.

Good morning everybody.

That confession was in Rolling Stone over a year ago.


What "confession" was that, Bob?

The guy worked for the CIA (don't remember the guy's name). He confessed to his son on his deathbed. This came out probably mid-summer last year.

EDIT: Here it is: E. Howard Hunt


Oh that bullshit about Howard Hunt being one the tramps. Jesus what a giant pant-load.

Comment by wickedpam on 11/19/2010 17:09:50
Quote by Raine:
Holy Crap?!?!

The Ad Sharon Angle DIDN'T run.


oh my


Comment by livingonli on 11/19/2010 17:17:28
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning all.

Well thanks to one other hurdle and the impound lot having to get my car out from behind 10 others so I have to go back today. At least the madness is finally coming to an end after considerable expense.



They're aren't going to charge you for another day are they? I mean it was they're fault that it was blocked.

That they are not. I am paid up. It's just been the extra taxis back and forth that are the money now.

Comment by wickedpam on 11/19/2010 17:19:26
Quote by livingonli:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by livingonli:

Good morning all.



Well thanks to one other hurdle and the impound lot having to get my car out from behind 10 others so I have to go back today. At least the madness is finally coming to an end after considerable expense.








They're aren't going to charge you for another day are they? I mean it was they're fault that it was blocked.


That they are not. I am paid up. It's just been the extra taxis back and forth that are the money now.




Get reciepts from the taxi's I would see about getting that money back, again its not your fault your car was blocked



Comment by Scoopster on 11/19/2010 17:19:38
Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 17:23:12
Comment by BobR on 11/19/2010 17:33:43
Comment by BobR on 11/19/2010 17:34:20
Quote by Raine:
Holy Crap?!?!

The Ad Sharon Angle DIDN'T run.

That is just... oh... my... gawd...

Comment by TriSec on 11/19/2010 17:38:49
Light has finally dawned on Marblehead!

I've been wrestling with modal jazz theory for about 2 weeks now. I finally went to a third theory book, Mark Levine's "Jazz Theory Book" and at long last figured out what I've been missing.

D Dorian is the 2nd mode of C Major, going from D to D in the key of C. It's also a D Minor scale with flat 2nd and 7th...which I couldn't figure out how to tie the two back together. Turned out to be nothing more than a nomenclature issue to me.




Comment by TriSec on 11/19/2010 17:41:02
Oh, and BIRD LIVES!



Comment by Raine on 11/19/2010 17:41:26
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Raine:
Holy Crap?!?!

The Ad Sharon Angle DIDN'T run.

That is just... oh... my... gawd...

It's hysterical that these people wanted to be taken seriously. I swear to god -- the stupit hurts.



Comment by TriSec on 11/19/2010 17:44:18
However, I the TriSec recommend this volume on the many facets of the Kennedy killing.

Without passing judgement on any of the Mondo referenced books. We shall have to agree to disagree here.



Comment by TriSec on 11/19/2010 18:15:27
Wow....it turns out the Qantas flight was in more trouble than we guessed.

There's a laundry list of issues, but this one leaps out at me:

Partial failure of leading edge slats. These are the panels that slide forward from the leading edge of the wing. Similar to flaps, they increase lift and allow for slower takeoff and landing speeds. The lack of slats increased the plane's landing speed even further, perhaps beyond the rated groundspeed limits of its tires.


Engine failure and slat malfunction led to AA 191 going down in Chicago in '79.

Comment by Scoopster on 11/19/2010 18:29:05
OK I have a bit of a dilemma here..



I'm baking a couple pecan pies next week for family & friends using this here recipe but I want to convert the refined white/brown sugar & corn syrup to raw turbinado cane sugar and maybe some molasses. Anyone have an idea what the conversion is?

Comment by BobR on 11/19/2010 18:38:32
Quote by Scoopster:
OK I have a bit of a dilemma here..

I'm baking a couple pecan pies next week for family & friends using this here recipe but I want to convert the refined white/brown sugar & corn syrup to raw turbinado cane sugar and maybe some molasses. Anyone have an idea what the conversion is?

I'm guessing that white sugar + brown sugar = turbinado sugar for the most part. You might want to add just a little molasses to ensure you get a proper taste.

The corn syrup is going to be more problematic. You can't substitute molasses in equal amounts because that is all you will taste in the pie. You could try maple syrup instead, and that might add a nice extra flavor profile.

Comment by TriSec on 11/19/2010 18:39:44
My friend Mrs. Smith always makes my pecan pie.

Comment by BobR on 11/19/2010 18:46:35
Congrats to Patti Smith

(that's "Smith", not "Smyth")

Comment by TriSec on 11/19/2010 18:53:05
Of course, I'm on pie duty next week, too. I make a mean apple pie, but I'm not sure which way to go with that this year. I've got about 6 recipes I can pick from....I might make an apple tart this year. (no pie plate, it's mounded on a cookie sheet and doused with a maple glaze.)

I also have squash duty, and I'll be making an old Troop 61 special...acorn squash with maple & brown sugar. I just had a thought; I might build a fire and cook that outside in my dutch oven...it tastes better that way.





Comment by BobR on 11/19/2010 18:54:15
Comment by BobR on 11/19/2010 18:55:18
Quote by TriSec:
Of course, I'm on pie duty next week, too. I make a mean apple pie, but I'm not sure which way to go with that this year. I've got about 6 recipes I can pick from....I might make an apple tart this year. (no pie plate, it's mounded on a cookie sheet and doused with a maple glaze.)

I also have squash duty, and I'll be making an old Troop 61 special...acorn squash with maple & brown sugar. I just had a thought; I might build a fire and cook that outside in my dutch oven...it tastes better that way.

wow - maybe we'll bypass NY and head to MA for Thanksgiving...

Comment by livingonli on 11/19/2010 19:00:16
Still waiting to hear if my car is ready.