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Ask a Vet
Author: TriSec
Date: 12/07/2010 11:42:14
Good Morning.
Today is our 2,820th day in Iraq and our 3,348th day in Afghanistan.
We'll start this morning as we always do, with the latest casualty figures from our ongoing wars, courtesy of Antiwar.com:
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 4429
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 4290
Since Handover (6/29/04): 3570
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09): 201
Since Operation New Dawn: 11
Other Coalition Troops - Iraq: 318
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 1,414
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 830
Contractor Employee Deaths - Iraq: 1,487
Journalists - Iraq : 348
Academics Killed - Iraq: 448
We find this morning's Cost of War passing through:
$ 1, 117, 939, 000, 000 .00
We'll veer a little bit away from our vets today, and I'll let you peer a little into the dark side of medical insurance. Long ago now, I was the bad guy, the one you hated, the cold, heartless bastard that made people cry. That's right...I used to exploit every loophole and deny insurance claims for a living. The hell of it is, I was very good at it, and I liked what I was doing a lot. A favorite tactic of mine was denying claims for missing a filing limit...meaning that if a carrier gave you 90 days, or 180 days to file a claim...that was a hard and fast rule. A claim received at 91 days was dead on arrival, and no, you couldn't appeal that, sorry.
Which is why I have mixed feelings about this next story. In all my years of doing the evil business, I caved only once...and that's because the doctor's office was utterly destroyed in a 5-alarm fire and he lost absolutely everything. But even then, the provider had to call me screaming about it, because I denied the initial claim. Insurance companies are heartless bastards, yes. So it's not really a surprise that an appeal has gone to the Supreme Court.
There are two unrelated stories that I've saved this morning that don't really relate to today's blog, but I can't figure out how to tie them together....so I'll just throw them out there. It's issues we have been covering here at AAV for quite some time.
First, Women's Vet's suicide rate rises sharply. Sadly, this does not come as a surprise, but that's not why I bookmarked this story. No, this ties back to something Raine has been reporting about for some time....sexual violence against our women soldiers. A statistic buried deep in the story is rather telling.
Women make up about 14% of the active Army. So, extrapolate that to 100,000 soldiers that were in Iraq at any given time, and you do the math.
Finally this morning...I'll leave you with another horror story from Arlington. This just makes me so sick that I can't even develop these stories anymore. I cringe whenever I see "Arlington" in a headline these days. Our tooly Senator Brown (R-MA) wants to take the lead on this. I have called his office numerous times, and he seems sincere on this issue....but so far it's all talk and no action.
Today is our 2,820th day in Iraq and our 3,348th day in Afghanistan.
We'll start this morning as we always do, with the latest casualty figures from our ongoing wars, courtesy of Antiwar.com:
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 4429
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 4290
Since Handover (6/29/04): 3570
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09): 201
Since Operation New Dawn: 11
Other Coalition Troops - Iraq: 318
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 1,414
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 830
Contractor Employee Deaths - Iraq: 1,487
Journalists - Iraq : 348
Academics Killed - Iraq: 448
We find this morning's Cost of War passing through:
We'll veer a little bit away from our vets today, and I'll let you peer a little into the dark side of medical insurance. Long ago now, I was the bad guy, the one you hated, the cold, heartless bastard that made people cry. That's right...I used to exploit every loophole and deny insurance claims for a living. The hell of it is, I was very good at it, and I liked what I was doing a lot. A favorite tactic of mine was denying claims for missing a filing limit...meaning that if a carrier gave you 90 days, or 180 days to file a claim...that was a hard and fast rule. A claim received at 91 days was dead on arrival, and no, you couldn't appeal that, sorry.
Which is why I have mixed feelings about this next story. In all my years of doing the evil business, I caved only once...and that's because the doctor's office was utterly destroyed in a 5-alarm fire and he lost absolutely everything. But even then, the provider had to call me screaming about it, because I denied the initial claim. Insurance companies are heartless bastards, yes. So it's not really a surprise that an appeal has gone to the Supreme Court.
WASHINGTON — The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have left nearly 40,000 U.S. troops wounded, caused veterans' disability claims to spiral and now brought new urgency to a legal fight over deadlines for claims.
The Supreme Court on Monday will hear a case testing whether a veteran — in this situation, from the Korean War with severe mental illness — should be prevented from appealing a Department of Veterans Affairs denial of benefits if he missed a 120-day time limit for judicial review of the decision.
Advocacy groups that have joined the case say the dilemma for vets navigating the claims system is especially compelling today and the need for flexibility in filing deadlines even more important.
"We've seen, as you would expect, a spike in disability claims during wartime," says lawyer Gregory Garre, representing the National Organization of Veterans' Advocates. "In these conflicts we've also seen a rise in traumatic stress injuries, psychological injuries and other problems that would cause a veteran to miss a deadline for appeal."
"Disabled veterans are sometimes hospitalized for extended periods of time, beyond 120 days," adds William Mailander, general counsel for the Paralyzed Veterans of America. "They may not be getting their mail and may not even know that a decision has been made."
Department of Veterans Affairs lawyers counter that the 120-day deadline is set by federal statute and that it is up to Congress, not judges, to add any flexibility.
*snip*
In the veteran's dispute, a U.S. appeals court relied on the 2007 case, Bowles v. Russell, and declared the 120-day time limit a firm rule barring any judicial exceptions. It rejected an appeal from Korean War veteran David Henderson, who was found 100% disabled with paranoid schizophrenia after his service in the early 1950s.
The current case began in 2001 when Henderson, living in North Carolina, sought monthly benefits for in-home care related to his condition.
Henderson's lawyers say he missed the 120-day deadline for appealing the VA's denial by 15 days because he was bedridden from the very disability for which he needed benefits.
The Veterans Court, a special court that hears appeals from the VA's administrative process, said it could not grant a deadline extension for any reason. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit affirmed, based on the high court's 2007 decision, saying federal time limits are not subject to judges' discretion unless Congress has written such flexibility into the law. Some of the judges in the Federal Circuit majority noted, however, that "the rigid deadline of the existing statute can and does lead to unfairness."
Henderson died on Oct. 24 this year at age 81, and his wife, Doretha, has taken over the appeal.
Washington lawyer Lisa Blatt, representing Henderson at the high court, argues that Congress wrote the 120-day time limit in a way that allows the Veterans Court judges to make exceptions when they deem it necessary.
"The overarching thrust of the veterans' disability scheme," she tells the justices in her brief, "is decisively pro-veteran. It defies credulity that Congress intended to impose an anti-veteran jurisdictional rule in an otherwise pro-veteran scheme." She says the 2007 high court case, involving a different federal law and different context, should not control the veterans' situation.
In an interview, Blatt added, "This case is important to a significant number of veterans."
There are two unrelated stories that I've saved this morning that don't really relate to today's blog, but I can't figure out how to tie them together....so I'll just throw them out there. It's issues we have been covering here at AAV for quite some time.
First, Women's Vet's suicide rate rises sharply. Sadly, this does not come as a surprise, but that's not why I bookmarked this story. No, this ties back to something Raine has been reporting about for some time....sexual violence against our women soldiers. A statistic buried deep in the story is rather telling.
Many women in the military face the added threat of sexual violence. In a study of 21,800 women veterans who served in Iraq, 15 percent experienced sexual assault or harassment while in the service.
Women make up about 14% of the active Army. So, extrapolate that to 100,000 soldiers that were in Iraq at any given time, and you do the math.
Finally this morning...I'll leave you with another horror story from Arlington. This just makes me so sick that I can't even develop these stories anymore. I cringe whenever I see "Arlington" in a headline these days. Our tooly Senator Brown (R-MA) wants to take the lead on this. I have called his office numerous times, and he seems sincere on this issue....but so far it's all talk and no action.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 13:32:04
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 13:32:04
Morning 
Comment by 
velveeta jones on 12/07/2010 14:04:30
velveeta jones on 12/07/2010 14:04:30
Morning all.
Great, but depressing, post TriSec.
Ya know, G-D forbid we let the gays into the military..... why that would cut down on all the flirting from the macho guys. [/sarcasm]
Great, but depressing, post TriSec.
Ya know, G-D forbid we let the gays into the military..... why that would cut down on all the flirting from the macho guys. [/sarcasm]
Comment by 
Raine on 12/07/2010 14:14:50
Raine on 12/07/2010 14:14:50
Good Morning! 
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 14:20:14
Raine on 12/07/2010 14:20:14
Very depressing but informative blog, Tri.
I feeling a little bit better about things thins morning. Ezra Klein Writes that it's not totally awful.
I feeling a little bit better about things thins morning. Ezra Klein Writes that it's not totally awful.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 14:24:10
Raine on 12/07/2010 14:24:10
This is another Great article detailing the Bad Deal* --
Some snippets:
....
Some snippets:
the concessions that he won from the GOP are so important. As part of the deal, expiring unemployment benefits for millions of Americans will be extended for 13 months. Just as importantly, there is now a real prospect that the Senate will act on repeal of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and ratification of the START treaty before this month's lame duck session ends. Is extending tax cuts for the richest Americans (and blowing another hole in the deficit in the process) a steep price to pay for all of this? Absolutely. But that's politics: Obama took the best deal he could possibly get.
....
Comment by 
Scoopster on 12/07/2010 14:42:30
Scoopster on 12/07/2010 14:42:30
Mornin' all.. 
Well at least I'm feelin' a little bit better than I was last night, thanks to the absolute clobbering the Pats laid down.
I'm still pissed tho - this isn't a deal it's another shovel-sized helping of BS being shoved down the throats of the middle class.
Well at least I'm feelin' a little bit better than I was last night, thanks to the absolute clobbering the Pats laid down.
I'm still pissed tho - this isn't a deal it's another shovel-sized helping of BS being shoved down the throats of the middle class.
Comment by 
TriSec on 12/07/2010 14:55:54
TriSec on 12/07/2010 14:55:54
I am still miffed.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 14:58:17
Raine on 12/07/2010 14:58:17
Actually there is some help for business in this plan.
5) Business expensing: Remember back in September, when the White House announced a proposal to give businesses two years in which they could deduct 100 percent of the cost of new investments? That's in the deal, too. The cost of this is a bit complicated -- it's $30 billion over 10 years, but it works by offering huge tax cuts in the next two years and then paying that back over the next eight. So we're basically trying to shift business investment forward to 2011 and 2012. Over those two years, the tax breaks should be around $200 billion, though because it's a shift rather than a cut, it will have less than $200 billion in im
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 15:00:31
Raine on 12/07/2010 15:00:31
Well, I'm thinking that in 2 years -- he can still get rid of the Bush Tax Cuts.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 15:03:49
Raine on 12/07/2010 15:03:49
You know -- the Tea Party caucus may very well scuttle this deal as well.
Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), the chairwoman of the House Tea Party Caucus, said Republicans could balk at voting to extend all the tax cuts for two years if it's tied to a long-term extension of jobless benefits.
"I don't know that Republicans would necessarily go along with that vote. That would be a very hard vote to take," Bachmann said on conservative talker Sean Hannity's radio show on Monday.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 15:04:43
Raine on 12/07/2010 15:04:43
Now how sad is that? The Tea Party could stop it because of UI, and the progressive caucus because of the extension of the tax cuts.
Comment by 
BobR on 12/07/2010 15:07:37
I am somewhat bummed about this. I know the tax-cuts are going to hurt in the long term, but we might not even make it to the long term as a country without the short-term concessions from the Republicans on unemployment insurance, etc.
What I think is missing from the discussion is that a lot of the outrage from the left is not that tax cuts were extended, but that the Repbulicans "won". This seems more about vengeance than what's best for the country.
BobR on 12/07/2010 15:07:37
Quote by Raine:
Very depressing but informative blog, Tri.
I feeling a little bit better about things thins morning. Ezra Klein Writes that it's not totally awful.
I am somewhat bummed about this. I know the tax-cuts are going to hurt in the long term, but we might not even make it to the long term as a country without the short-term concessions from the Republicans on unemployment insurance, etc.
What I think is missing from the discussion is that a lot of the outrage from the left is not that tax cuts were extended, but that the Repbulicans "won". This seems more about vengeance than what's best for the country.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 15:12:18
A friend of mine said this morning "Politics is not bloodsport in a Democracy. That is the whole point, to avoid hatred and bloodshed."
Raine on 12/07/2010 15:12:18
Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:
Very depressing but informative blog, Tri.
I feeling a little bit better about things thins morning. Ezra Klein Writes that it's not totally awful.
I am somewhat bummed about this. I know the tax-cuts are going to hurt in the long term, but we might not even make it to the long term as a country without the short-term concessions from the Republicans on unemployment insurance, etc.
What I think is missing from the discussion is that a lot of the outrage from the left is not that tax cuts were extended, but that the Repbulicans "won". This seems more about vengeance than what's best for the country.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 15:16:01
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 15:16:01
I don't know, maybe that's how I feel, that I'm tired of bowing to the the will of the repubs. But I'm also tired of the rich getting away with dumping everything on the middle class and the middle class shrugging their collective shoulders and taking it.
I mean I saw an article on yahoo yestday proclaiming that if you have a million dollars you not really rich. WTF?!
I mean I saw an article on yahoo yestday proclaiming that if you have a million dollars you not really rich. WTF?!
Comment by Scoopster on 12/07/2010 15:16:43
It's not vengeance at all. When the Republicans get what they want, the entire country is punished. And they didn't just get a "win" now either - they get another shot at it in two years, while they have control of the House and just in time for another presidential election campaign.
Scoopster on 12/07/2010 15:16:43
Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:
Very depressing but informative blog, Tri.
I feeling a little bit better about things thins morning. Ezra Klein Writes that it's not totally awful.
I am somewhat bummed about this. I know the tax-cuts are going to hurt in the long term, but we might not even make it to the long term as a country without the short-term concessions from the Republicans on unemployment insurance, etc.
What I think is missing from the discussion is that a lot of the outrage from the left is not that tax cuts were extended, but that the Repbulicans "won". This seems more about vengeance than what's best for the country.
It's not vengeance at all. When the Republicans get what they want, the entire country is punished. And they didn't just get a "win" now either - they get another shot at it in two years, while they have control of the House and just in time for another presidential election campaign.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 15:28:06
I'm not saying I agree with this *deal* at all, and you guys know me well enough to know I agree with how you feel about this.
I just don't see what the benefit would be to have them expire - only to have the GOP voting to make them permanent. That is a real concern. AND-- you KNOW it would be blamed on Obama that he raised taxes.
Personally at this point, I'd like to call them the Obama tax cuts now.
Also -- I really think we NEED UI. I also think the Administration DOES wanna get DADT and the Start treaty done.
Raine on 12/07/2010 15:28:06
Quote by wickedpam:
I don't know, maybe that's how I feel, that I'm tired of bowing to the the will of the repubs. But I'm also tired of the rich getting away with dumping everything on the middle class and the middle class shrugging their collective shoulders and taking it.
I mean I saw an article on yahoo yestday proclaiming that if you have a million dollars you not really rich. WTF?!
I just don't see what the benefit would be to have them expire - only to have the GOP voting to make them permanent. That is a real concern. AND-- you KNOW it would be blamed on Obama that he raised taxes.
Personally at this point, I'd like to call them the Obama tax cuts now.
Also -- I really think we NEED UI. I also think the Administration DOES wanna get DADT and the Start treaty done.
Comment by BobR on 12/07/2010 15:29:57
In two years, if the populace is happy, we call them the "Obama Tax cuts"
If not, we point out that the Republicans forced the issue.
We just have to ensure that we get ahead on the messaging on this one.
BobR on 12/07/2010 15:29:57
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:
Very depressing but informative blog, Tri.
I feeling a little bit better about things thins morning. Ezra Klein Writes that it's not totally awful.
I am somewhat bummed about this. I know the tax-cuts are going to hurt in the long term, but we might not even make it to the long term as a country without the short-term concessions from the Republicans on unemployment insurance, etc.
What I think is missing from the discussion is that a lot of the outrage from the left is not that tax cuts were extended, but that the Repbulicans "won". This seems more about vengeance than what's best for the country.
It's not vengeance at all. When the Republicans get what they want, the entire country is punished. And they didn't just get a "win" now either - they get another shot at it in two years, while they have control of the House and just in time for another presidential election campaign.
In two years, if the populace is happy, we call them the "Obama Tax cuts"
If not, we point out that the Republicans forced the issue.
We just have to ensure that we get ahead on the messaging on this one.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 15:30:58
Raine on 12/07/2010 15:30:58
You know why he's not using executive orders? He not Boy Blunder!
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 15:37:24
I don't know that either way there was no "win" for us - the Dems are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I attribute that to not controlling our message
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 15:37:24
Quote by Raine:I'm not saying I agree with this *deal* at all, and you guys know me well enough to know I agree with how you feel about this.Quote by wickedpam:
I don't know, maybe that's how I feel, that I'm tired of bowing to the the will of the repubs. But I'm also tired of the rich getting away with dumping everything on the middle class and the middle class shrugging their collective shoulders and taking it.
I mean I saw an article on yahoo yestday proclaiming that if you have a million dollars you not really rich. WTF?!
I just don't see what the benefit would be to have them expire - only to have the GOP voting to make them permanent. That is a real concern. AND-- you KNOW it would be blamed on Obama that he raised taxes.
Personally at this point, I'd like to call them the Obama tax cuts now.
Also -- I really think we NEED UI. I also think the Administration DOES wanna get DADT and the Start treaty done.
I don't know that either way there was no "win" for us - the Dems are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I attribute that to not controlling our message
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 15:49:17
Yes.
the messaging is atrocious. The Media also likes to feel the GOP narrative.
Raine on 12/07/2010 15:49:17
Quote by wickedpam:
I don't know that either way there was no "win" for us - the Dems are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I attribute that to not controlling our message
the messaging is atrocious. The Media also likes to feel the GOP narrative.
Comment by Scoopster on 12/07/2010 15:49:24
Scoopster on 12/07/2010 15:49:24
Comment by BobR on 12/07/2010 15:57:11
maybe I should get them to manage my 401k
BobR on 12/07/2010 15:57:11
maybe I should get them to manage my 401k
Comment by Scoopster on 12/07/2010 16:05:31
Scoopster on 12/07/2010 16:05:31
Some clarification on the SS "tax holiday" thing in the deal, from a employment tax insider.
This makes me feel a little bit better about that part..
This makes me feel a little bit better about that part..
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 16:20:42
Raine on 12/07/2010 16:20:42
Mala, BTW I wont to correct something form yesterday -- It was Wilmington Ohio -- and here is the MEdia Matters Story.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 16:22:19
I think that is what Ezra Klien was talking about in the link I posted earlier. This person explained it way mo' bettah than Ezra!
Raine on 12/07/2010 16:22:19
Quote by Scoopster:
Some clarification on the SS "tax holiday" thing in the deal, from a employment tax insider.
This makes me feel a little bit better about that part..
I think that is what Ezra Klien was talking about in the link I posted earlier. This person explained it way mo' bettah than Ezra!
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 16:27:06
no worries
I just wondered which Wilmington, cause I used to live in the NC one and still have friends there
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 16:27:06
Quote by Raine:
Mala, BTW I wont to correct something form yesterday -- It was Wilmington Ohio -- and here is the MEdia Matters Story.
no worries
I just wondered which Wilmington, cause I used to live in the NC one and still have friends there
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 16:27:09
Raine on 12/07/2010 16:27:09
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 16:30:17
Raine on 12/07/2010 16:30:17
BTW, this is Pearl Harbor Day.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 16:40:49
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 16:40:49
AARGGGHHHH! and the person I want to actually hit strikes again!!!!!! 
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 16:52:22
What now???
Do I need to come out there?
Raine on 12/07/2010 16:52:22
Quote by wickedpam:
AARGGGHHHH! and the person I want to actually hit strikes again!!!!!!
Do I need to come out there?
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 16:56:26
to witness the asshatery of one person? don't know that its worth the trip. Its all board related. our new teabagger secretary and asst sec can't get the minutes correct and get offended when the president sends them the corrections collected from other members. THey don't know the concept of neutral words and she called them out on that in a private email that they asshat made public. I swear if I hadn't given my word to her, the pres, I would resign and just work on communtity projects like 1by youth and the city of Manassas withouth them
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 16:56:26
Quote by Raine:What now???Quote by wickedpam:
AARGGGHHHH! and the person I want to actually hit strikes again!!!!!!
Do I need to come out there?
to witness the asshatery of one person? don't know that its worth the trip. Its all board related. our new teabagger secretary and asst sec can't get the minutes correct and get offended when the president sends them the corrections collected from other members. THey don't know the concept of neutral words and she called them out on that in a private email that they asshat made public. I swear if I hadn't given my word to her, the pres, I would resign and just work on communtity projects like 1by youth and the city of Manassas withouth them
Comment by 
livingonli on 12/07/2010 16:58:26
livingonli on 12/07/2010 16:58:26
Good morning folks. It's feeling like that kind of day. Then again it feels like a lot of them.
Comment by livingonli on 12/07/2010 17:12:06
The GOP viewpoint seems to control the media and not just Fox News. The right-wing propaganda is in a lot more places than you think That's why the concerns over the Comcast-NBC deal which may result in an ideological purge at MSNBC if it occurs (note the KO suspension).
livingonli on 12/07/2010 17:12:06
Quote by Raine:Yes.Quote by wickedpam:
I don't know that either way there was no "win" for us - the Dems are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I attribute that to not controlling our message
the messaging is atrocious. The Media also likes to feel the GOP narrative.
The GOP viewpoint seems to control the media and not just Fox News. The right-wing propaganda is in a lot more places than you think That's why the concerns over the Comcast-NBC deal which may result in an ideological purge at MSNBC if it occurs (note the KO suspension).
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 18:09:29
Raine on 12/07/2010 18:09:29
Center for American progress has an amazing write up on the Tax deal. 
Our analysis of the framework tax agreement that President Barack Obama announced yesterday, including additional tax cuts and an extension of unemployment insurance, finds that 2.2 million jobs will be the end result. In this time of economic distress, millions of new jobs are, of course, very welcome. It is, however, unfortunate that these jobs have to come from an agreement that is a balance between large, unneeded, bonus tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans and the needed continuation of unemployment benefits, middle-class tax relief, and additional help for the economy for the rest of us.
Comment by Scoopster on 12/07/2010 18:20:32
Scoopster on 12/07/2010 18:20:32
Hmm.. Obama's scheduled another presser today at 2:20..
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 18:39:02
I may have to pop some corn for this one.
Raine on 12/07/2010 18:39:02
Quote by Scoopster:
Hmm.. Obama's scheduled another presser today at 2:20..
I may have to pop some corn for this one.
Comment by Scoopster on 12/07/2010 19:07:54
You do that - I'll pour the booze. We'll need both heh.
Scoopster on 12/07/2010 19:07:54
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
Hmm.. Obama's scheduled another presser today at 2:20..
I may have to pop some corn for this one.
You do that - I'll pour the booze. We'll need both heh.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 19:27:55
Raine on 12/07/2010 19:27:55
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 19:41:04
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 19:41:04
oh! did the pres just call the repubs hostage takers from the WH press room. oh my, I thought he was going to be more "I'm sorry I didn't win for my team" - he seems rather PO'ed that he was forced to do this
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 20:01:28
Raine on 12/07/2010 20:01:28
Well, I thought that was really good. You guys?
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 20:03:24
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 20:03:24
I did too - he was positive, laid out his reasoning, and took some good shots at the repubs to some extent
Comment by Scoopster on 12/07/2010 20:36:26
I wasn't able to watch (working) but was following it on TPM.
One of the things that I disagree with him on is the idea of no collateral damage. The problem is either way you go, there's collateral damage.
- If you let Bushco's taxcut bonanza expire, rates go back to Clinton-era levels and the Republicans get forced back into a position of blocking everything, which they've been doing all along anyways. We probably get no UI extension, no START treaty, no Defense Auth w/ DADT, and things stew for a while until Boehner's house passes some unfathomable bill that we can hammer all the way to 2012. But the Repubs are put in their fucking place and they know Obama won't flinch when shit gets tough.
- If you do what Obama did and kick the can down the road, the middle class gets an extra year of life support... while the rich get to pile MILLIONS MORE onto their fortunes and donate it to scumbag 503c groups. That's tax revenue that otherwise could have been spent to create jobs, or cut the deficit to nullify the tea party argument. But most importantly, you give the Republicans a signal that you're willing to negotiate on their terms - a gigantic sign of weakness that they will continue to exploit day after day after month and into the next election.
Scoopster on 12/07/2010 20:36:26
Quote by Raine:
Well, I thought that was really good. You guys?
I wasn't able to watch (working) but was following it on TPM.
One of the things that I disagree with him on is the idea of no collateral damage. The problem is either way you go, there's collateral damage.
- If you let Bushco's taxcut bonanza expire, rates go back to Clinton-era levels and the Republicans get forced back into a position of blocking everything, which they've been doing all along anyways. We probably get no UI extension, no START treaty, no Defense Auth w/ DADT, and things stew for a while until Boehner's house passes some unfathomable bill that we can hammer all the way to 2012. But the Repubs are put in their fucking place and they know Obama won't flinch when shit gets tough.
- If you do what Obama did and kick the can down the road, the middle class gets an extra year of life support... while the rich get to pile MILLIONS MORE onto their fortunes and donate it to scumbag 503c groups. That's tax revenue that otherwise could have been spent to create jobs, or cut the deficit to nullify the tea party argument. But most importantly, you give the Republicans a signal that you're willing to negotiate on their terms - a gigantic sign of weakness that they will continue to exploit day after day after month and into the next election.
Comment by Scoopster on 12/07/2010 20:39:03
Scoopster on 12/07/2010 20:39:03
BTW I'm trying really hard not to be as pissed off as a lot of other people are at Obama right now..
Comment by BobR on 12/07/2010 20:52:40
There are a LOT of Republicans and tea baggers that are NOT happy with this deal, so it's not all weighted on their side.
BobR on 12/07/2010 20:52:40
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
Well, I thought that was really good. You guys?
I wasn't able to watch (working) but was following it on TPM.
One of the things that I disagree with him on is the idea of no collateral damage. The problem is either way you go, there's collateral damage.
- If you let Bushco's taxcut bonanza expire, rates go back to Clinton-era levels and the Republicans get forced back into a position of blocking everything, which they've been doing all along anyways. We probably get no UI extension, no START treaty, no Defense Auth w/ DADT, and things stew for a while until Boehner's house passes some unfathomable bill that we can hammer all the way to 2012. But the Repubs are put in their fucking place and they know Obama won't flinch when shit gets tough.
- If you do what Obama did and kick the can down the road, the middle class gets an extra year of life support... while the rich get to pile MILLIONS MORE onto their fortunes and donate it to scumbag 503c groups. That's tax revenue that otherwise could have been spent to create jobs, or cut the deficit to nullify the tea party argument. But most importantly, you give the Republicans a signal that you're willing to negotiate on their terms - a gigantic sign of weakness that they will continue to exploit day after day after month and into the next election.
There are a LOT of Republicans and tea baggers that are NOT happy with this deal, so it's not all weighted on their side.
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 21:10:39
I understand Scoop.
I do. I wrote this earlier, on one of my threads...I have been posting things about this issue trying to wrap my head around it. Someone asked why it's so hard to understand so here is what I said. I hope it helps a little.
Raine on 12/07/2010 21:10:39
Quote by Scoopster:
BTW I'm trying really hard not to be as pissed off as a lot of other people are at Obama right now..
I understand Scoop. I do. I wrote this earlier, on one of my threads...I have been posting things about this issue trying to wrap my head around it. Someone asked why it's so hard to understand so here is what I said. I hope it helps a little.
I tend to think that unemployment benefits are really important.
Look I am unhappy about the Bush tax cuts being extended -- but at least they are not permanent. I hope you read the other things I posted today -- there are some really good things in this deal.
I'm also really not -- and never was one of those people who feel like the middle class should be punished in order for the GOP to be left explaining it. They never will.
The GOP wants the cuts to expire so they can play the hero next year. Make no mistake about that.
There are some good things in this. I would hope that I can disagree with many parts of this plan without having to say I no longer support the President.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 22:04:51
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 22:04:51
Yahoo is reporting that Elizabeth Edwards has pasted away 
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 22:06:23
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 22:06:23
CNN is also reporting it now
Comment by Raine on 12/07/2010 22:11:04
I'm so sad.
She was such a good person. She fought for what she believed in.
This is so so tragic.Her children lost a mother. America lost a champion.
Raine on 12/07/2010 22:11:04
Quote by wickedpam:
Yahoo is reporting that Elizabeth Edwards has pasted away
I'm so sad.
She was such a good person. She fought for what she believed in.
This is so so tragic.Her children lost a mother. America lost a champion.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/07/2010 22:13:44
that they did. I'm sure those kids will have an amazing support system and have has a great example on how to live life from their mom.
Its bring back my grandma's battle with breast cancer - she didn't win, pasted away at only 56. not a day goes by with out me missing her.
wickedpam on 12/07/2010 22:13:44
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
Yahoo is reporting that Elizabeth Edwards has pasted away
I'm so sad.
She was such a good person. She fought for what she believed in.
This is so so tragic.Her children lost a mother. America lost a champion.
that they did. I'm sure those kids will have an amazing support system and have has a great example on how to live life from their mom.
Its bring back my grandma's battle with breast cancer - she didn't win, pasted away at only 56. not a day goes by with out me missing her.