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Ask A Vet
Author: TriSec
Date: 05/10/2011 10:26:22
Good Morning.
Today is our 2,974th day in Iraq and our 3,502nd day in Afghanistan.
We'll start this morning as we always do; with the latest casualty figures from our ongoing wars, courtesy of Antiwar.com:
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 4452
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 4311
Since Handover (6/29/04): 363
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09): 224
Since Operation New Dawn: 34
Other Coalition Troops - Iraq: 318
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 1,566
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 875
Contractor Employee Deaths - Iraq: 1,487
Journalists - Iraq: 348
Academics Killed - Iraq: 448
We find this morning's cost of war passing through:
$1, 192, 204, 500, 000 .00
I want you to go back to the timeline and think about how long we've been at war. A day count is a visual reminder, but it doesn't do much in real-world terms. I'll put it in more practical terms here.
We've been in Iraq for 8 years, 1 month, 21 days.
We've been in Afghanistan for 9 years, 7 months, 3 days.
Think about that for a minute. Is there anything in your personal life that you've done every day for this length of time? Even with the recent death of our primary target, there seems to be no end in sight. Some soldiers have been overseas 4 and 5 times during this span. (One married service couple has 8 deployments between the two of them.) Do you think this has any effect on morale?
Well of course it does. And while there may have been some small-scale "V-J day" style celebrations, it was mostly civilians and those too young to even remember why we were fighting in the first place.
Mental Health is one of those areas where we've sadly fallen short. You don't have to go very far on the internet before you run across a story about a returning vet drinking himself into some sort of trouble with the law...whether it's assault, robbery, or worse. We Americans love our fighting men and women, and we expect them to be tough and stoic. The reality is they are fragile human being like the rest of us.
Coming home should be a great joy, but for most of them, the reality is the ongoing 'great recession' means they may have been better off in the service. I myself have a colleague from LL Bean who re-enlisted more than a year ago. As he said at the time, "It's a better job than anything I can find out here". And like many of us out there in some form of hardship, veterans are no exception. The subset of the population that should receive the most support from the rest of us is in the same boat as far as the politicians are concerned. While there is much talk about cutting the Pentagon budget, there can't be any wading in indiscriminately with a chainsaw. Many programs deserve to be cut, but many more may be worthy of funding increases...especially programs that pay for veteran's care.
So....it's a tad meaty today, but veteran's issues are rarely easy. Keep calling those congresscritters. It's been a long road, but perhaps the end is growing near.
Today is our 2,974th day in Iraq and our 3,502nd day in Afghanistan.
We'll start this morning as we always do; with the latest casualty figures from our ongoing wars, courtesy of Antiwar.com:
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 4452
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 4311
Since Handover (6/29/04): 363
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09): 224
Since Operation New Dawn: 34
Other Coalition Troops - Iraq: 318
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 1,566
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 875
Contractor Employee Deaths - Iraq: 1,487
Journalists - Iraq: 348
Academics Killed - Iraq: 448
We find this morning's cost of war passing through:
I want you to go back to the timeline and think about how long we've been at war. A day count is a visual reminder, but it doesn't do much in real-world terms. I'll put it in more practical terms here.
We've been in Iraq for 8 years, 1 month, 21 days.
We've been in Afghanistan for 9 years, 7 months, 3 days.
Think about that for a minute. Is there anything in your personal life that you've done every day for this length of time? Even with the recent death of our primary target, there seems to be no end in sight. Some soldiers have been overseas 4 and 5 times during this span. (One married service couple has 8 deployments between the two of them.) Do you think this has any effect on morale?
Well of course it does. And while there may have been some small-scale "V-J day" style celebrations, it was mostly civilians and those too young to even remember why we were fighting in the first place.
"We're an Army that's in uncharted territory here," says Gen. Peter Chiarelli, Army vice chief of staff, who has focused on combat stress. "We have never fought for this long with an all-volunteer force that's 1% of the population."
Mental health strain was most severe among veterans of three or more deployments, with a third of those showing signs of psychological problems defined as either stress, depression or anxiety, the report obtained by USA TODAY says.
The research, based on a survey of soldiers and Marines in 2010, also found that the praise the troops have for their unit sergeants has never been higher as the United States approaches the 10th year of its longest war.
The report says decline in individual morale is significant: 46.5% of troops said they had medium, high or very high morale, compared with 65.7% who said that in 2005. About one in seven soldiers — and one in five Marines — reported high or very high morale.
President Obama ordered a surge of 30,000 troops into Afghanistan last year, bringing the total number to 100,000 troops. He said at the time that withdrawals would begin this July depending on security. The report says soldiers and Marines reported more intense fighting than during the surge in Iraq in 2006-07, with 75%-80% of those in Afghanistan involved in firefights.
Half or more of those surveyed said they had killed the enemy, and 75%-80% described the death or wounding of a buddy. Half also said that an improvised explosive device detonated within 55 yards while they were on foot patrol. The study's researchers also found evidence of physical wear-and-tear with a third of the force experiencing chronic pain.
"I'm not worried about our ability to continue the fight," Chiarelli says. "Folks who are coming home now are going to see that they're not going back for 24 months. And that hasn't been the way it's been for 10 years."
Mental Health is one of those areas where we've sadly fallen short. You don't have to go very far on the internet before you run across a story about a returning vet drinking himself into some sort of trouble with the law...whether it's assault, robbery, or worse. We Americans love our fighting men and women, and we expect them to be tough and stoic. The reality is they are fragile human being like the rest of us.
Coming home should be a great joy, but for most of them, the reality is the ongoing 'great recession' means they may have been better off in the service. I myself have a colleague from LL Bean who re-enlisted more than a year ago. As he said at the time, "It's a better job than anything I can find out here". And like many of us out there in some form of hardship, veterans are no exception. The subset of the population that should receive the most support from the rest of us is in the same boat as far as the politicians are concerned. While there is much talk about cutting the Pentagon budget, there can't be any wading in indiscriminately with a chainsaw. Many programs deserve to be cut, but many more may be worthy of funding increases...especially programs that pay for veteran's care.
WASHINGTON — Health care fees for working-age military retirees would increase slightly under a defense bill unveiled Monday that drew fierce opposition from the 2.1 million-strong Veterans of Foreign Wars.
The Pentagon is reeling from health care costs that have jumped from $19 billion in 2001 to $53 billion in the latest budget request. Determined to slash expenses, President Barack Obama is seeking a boost in fees that have remained unchanged for 11 years.
The defense bill proposed by House Armed Services Committee Chairman Howard "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif., goes along with a small increase in the next budget but limits long-term increases by linking them to cost of living adjustments for retirees.
The VFW, one in a network of powerful groups of retired officers and veterans, is resisting any increase, urging its members to contact lawmakers in a full-court challenge.
The military health care program, known as TRICARE, "is the cornerstone of a military retirement package that the armed forces must provide in order to entice someone to voluntarily give up 20 or more years of their youth to serve their nation," Robert E. Wallace, the executive director of the VFW, said in a May 4 letter to McKeon.
Joe Davis, a spokesman for the VFW, said Monday that the organization would mobilize its membership to fight any increase as the bill makes its way through Congress.
*snip*
The health care fees also will generate debate in the committee. The current fees are $230 a year for an individual and $460 for a family. That's far less than what civilian federal workers pay for health care, about $5,000 a year, and what most other people in the U.S. pay.
Obama is seeking a fee increase of $2.50 per month for an individual and $5 per month for families, which approaches the current price of a gallon of gasoline. Future increases starting in 2013 would be pegged to rising costs as measured by the national health care expenditure index produced by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which projects 6.2 percent growth.
"Health care is eating the department alive," Defense Secretary Robert Gates said bluntly — two years ago.
So....it's a tad meaty today, but veteran's issues are rarely easy. Keep calling those congresscritters. It's been a long road, but perhaps the end is growing near.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
Raine on 05/10/2011 12:54:16
Good morning!
Raine on 05/10/2011 12:54:16
Good morning!
Comment by 
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 13:06:46
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 13:06:46
Morning 
Comment by 
BobR on 05/10/2011 13:36:36
BobR on 05/10/2011 13:36:36
Excellent blog this morning Tri 
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 13:53:28
Raine on 05/10/2011 13:53:28
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 14:02:03
same here
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 14:02:03
Quote by Raine:
same here
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 14:17:10
Raine on 05/10/2011 14:17:10
Frontline looks like a good watch tonite.
Behind the strike that killed Osama bin Laden last week was one of the U.S. military's best kept secrets: a covert campaign that officials have credited with taking out thousands of Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters. A six-month investigation by FRONTLINE has gone inside the military's "kill/capture" operations to discover new evidence of the program's impact -- and its costs. Under the command of Gen. David Petraeus, U.S. forces are carrying out an unprecedented number of targeted raids using highly classified intelligence, aerial drones and Special Operations Forces. But is the tactic working? In interviews with Gen. Petraeus, his senior commanders and in rare footage with Taliban leaders and fighters, FRONTLINE producers Dan Edge (The Wounded Platoon) and Stephen Grey (Extraordinary Rendition) explore the logic behind the kill/capture policy and its consequences. Traveling into the lawless border regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan, FRONTLINE tells the story from the perspective of Afghan civilians, U.S. troops and the Taliban militants they are pursuing. After almost 10 years of fighting, this film examines the question: Will kill/capture help end the war in Afghanistan?
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 14:31:29
Raine on 05/10/2011 14:31:29
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 14:53:25
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 14:53:25
Um, Hitler was never put on trial either. I'm getting really tired of this.
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 14:54:06
Raine on 05/10/2011 14:54:06
Chris taking on Jim! WOW!!!!
WOW!
WOW!
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 14:55:10
you don't hear that often
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 14:55:10
Quote by Raine:
Chris taking on Jim! WOW!!!!
WOW!
you don't hear that often
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 14:57:28
Raine on 05/10/2011 14:57:28
Jim needs to read this article: Lawyers Were on Stand-By in Case Bin Laden Was Captured Alive
They WERE prepared to capture him alive. And here is a little reality, if you are a person wanted under suspicion of a crime, warrants, etc... and the cops show up in your house, you WILL get shot if you reach for a gun -- even if you are unarmed.
Sorry, I really disagree with Jim -- OBL may have been unarmed, but if there were ANY guns near him, or if he flinched to reach for one -- AND if he he used a woman as a shield -- sorry, welcome to reality. You will get shot.
They WERE prepared to capture him alive. And here is a little reality, if you are a person wanted under suspicion of a crime, warrants, etc... and the cops show up in your house, you WILL get shot if you reach for a gun -- even if you are unarmed.
Sorry, I really disagree with Jim -- OBL may have been unarmed, but if there were ANY guns near him, or if he flinched to reach for one -- AND if he he used a woman as a shield -- sorry, welcome to reality. You will get shot.
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 15:01:08
No, you don't. I was quite surprised at that.
I just really believe that Jim is wrong on this one. So is Michael Moore (and it seems Rosie O'Donnel... well known political pundit...
)
I think there are a lot of people who are trying to walk a fine line here. OBL was a really really really bad guy. Â What were we supposed to do? Bring him to the USA and put him on trial? For the love of all things, we can't even get congress to close GITMO and get those people a trial here on the mainland.
Osama was a bad man that had over -- WELL over --- ten years to surrender. HE went out with the defiance he has always shown.
Raine on 05/10/2011 15:01:08
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Chris taking on Jim! WOW!!!!
WOW!
you don't hear that often
I just really believe that Jim is wrong on this one. So is Michael Moore (and it seems Rosie O'Donnel... well known political pundit...
) I think there are a lot of people who are trying to walk a fine line here. OBL was a really really really bad guy. Â What were we supposed to do? Bring him to the USA and put him on trial? For the love of all things, we can't even get congress to close GITMO and get those people a trial here on the mainland.
Osama was a bad man that had over -- WELL over --- ten years to surrender. HE went out with the defiance he has always shown.
Comment by BobR on 05/10/2011 15:13:05
BobR on 05/10/2011 15:13:05
Trump: "My lack of racism is huge... HUUUUUUUGGGE..."
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 15:36:26
agreed - I an hardly a blood-thristy, sabor rattler, heck I don't even play shooter games cause they seem to real, and even I think this was justified.
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 15:36:26
Quote by Raine:No, you don't. I was quite surprised at that.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Chris taking on Jim! WOW!!!!
WOW!
you don't hear that often
I just really believe that Jim is wrong on this one. So is Michael Moore (and it seems Rosie O'Donnel... well known political pundit...
I think there are a lot of people who are trying to walk a fine line here. OBL was a really really really bad guy.  What were we supposed to do? Bring him to the USA and put him on trial? For the love of all things, we can't even get congress to close GITMO and get those people a trial here on the mainland.
Osama was a bad man that had over -- WELL over --- ten years to surrender. HE went out with the defiance he has always shown.
agreed - I an hardly a blood-thristy, sabor rattler, heck I don't even play shooter games cause they seem to real, and even I think this was justified.
Comment by 
livingonli on 05/10/2011 15:52:42
livingonli on 05/10/2011 15:52:42
Good morning everyone. It looks like I slept through the Chris smacking down of Jim. It would be nice if I could at least get a position where I could get to sleep at a semi-normal hour in order to wake up to listen to most of Momma instead of intermittently catching the end of the show.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 15:55:18
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 15:55:18
that men's health is not really all that - I've seen far better on that cover
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 16:02:20
What cracks me up is that he is IN that magazine at all... has he taken a look at the Demographics for Men's health? 
oh Irony, I love thee.
Raine on 05/10/2011 16:02:20
Quote by wickedpam:
that men's health is not really all that - I've seen far better on that cover
oh Irony, I love thee.
Comment by BobR on 05/10/2011 16:10:13
having "normal' working hours does not guarantee being able to listen to the show
BobR on 05/10/2011 16:10:13
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone. It looks like I slept through the Chris smacking down of Jim. It would be nice if I could at least get a position where I could get to sleep at a semi-normal hour in order to wake up to listen to most of Momma instead of intermittently catching the end of the show.
having "normal' working hours does not guarantee being able to listen to the show
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 16:13:43
lots of people aren't allowed to have access to internet radio at work - normal is overrated
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 16:13:43
Quote by BobR:Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone. It looks like I slept through the Chris smacking down of Jim. It would be nice if I could at least get a position where I could get to sleep at a semi-normal hour in order to wake up to listen to most of Momma instead of intermittently catching the end of the show.
having "normal' working hours does not guarantee being able to listen to the show
lots of people aren't allowed to have access to internet radio at work - normal is overrated
Comment by livingonli on 05/10/2011 16:15:05
I just need to be able to get up earlier which is difficult when you normally don't get to sleep until around 4 AM.
livingonli on 05/10/2011 16:15:05
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone. It looks like I slept through the Chris smacking down of Jim. It would be nice if I could at least get a position where I could get to sleep at a semi-normal hour in order to wake up to listen to most of Momma instead of intermittently catching the end of the show.
having "normal' working hours does not guarantee being able to listen to the show
lots of people aren't allowed to have access to internet radio at work - normal is overrated
I just need to be able to get up earlier which is difficult when you normally don't get to sleep until around 4 AM.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 16:17:14
That I understand - then need to invent a tivo for radio
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 16:17:14
Quote by livingonli:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone. It looks like I slept through the Chris smacking down of Jim. It would be nice if I could at least get a position where I could get to sleep at a semi-normal hour in order to wake up to listen to most of Momma instead of intermittently catching the end of the show.
having "normal' working hours does not guarantee being able to listen to the show
lots of people aren't allowed to have access to internet radio at work - normal is overrated
I just need to be able to get up earlier which is difficult when you normally don't get to sleep until around 4 AM.
That I understand
- then need to invent a tivo for radio
Comment by 
Scoopster on 05/10/2011 16:20:09
Scoopster on 05/10/2011 16:20:09
Mornin' all.. 
Ugh another nice weekend somewhat wrecked by illness. At least I mustered up enough energy to go out on Saturday and purchase a new bed set (which I've been meaning to do for a month).
Ugh another nice weekend somewhat wrecked by illness. At least I mustered up enough energy to go out on Saturday and purchase a new bed set (which I've been meaning to do for a month).
Comment by 
TriSec on 05/10/2011 16:38:47
TriSec on 05/10/2011 16:38:47
Grunt, thpth.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 05/10/2011 16:51:35
We won't even discuss the gigantic mound of suck known as U(don't)stream.
trojanrabbit on 05/10/2011 16:51:35
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone. It looks like I slept through the Chris smacking down of Jim. It would be nice if I could at least get a position where I could get to sleep at a semi-normal hour in order to wake up to listen to most of Momma instead of intermittently catching the end of the show.
having "normal' working hours does not guarantee being able to listen to the show
lots of people aren't allowed to have access to internet radio at work - normal is overrated
We won't even discuss the gigantic mound of suck known as U(don't)stream.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/10/2011 16:56:54
That does (did?) exist. I have what's known as a RadioShark which is an AM/FM receiver with recording software, that attaches to a computer USB port. It could do TiVo-style scheduled and time-delay recording.
Biggest problem - the radio flat out sucked. AM reception was useless.
trojanrabbit on 05/10/2011 16:56:54
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by livingonli:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone. It looks like I slept through the Chris smacking down of Jim. It would be nice if I could at least get a position where I could get to sleep at a semi-normal hour in order to wake up to listen to most of Momma instead of intermittently catching the end of the show.
having "normal' working hours does not guarantee being able to listen to the show
lots of people aren't allowed to have access to internet radio at work - normal is overrated
I just need to be able to get up earlier which is difficult when you normally don't get to sleep until around 4 AM.
That I understand
That does (did?) exist. I have what's known as a RadioShark which is an AM/FM receiver with recording software, that attaches to a computer USB port. It could do TiVo-style scheduled and time-delay recording.
Biggest problem - the radio flat out sucked. AM reception was useless.
Comment by livingonli on 05/10/2011 17:02:56
livingonli on 05/10/2011 17:02:56
The XM Mp3i has the ability to record XM programming which has some use since they do air the two hours of Momma a day from 10 AM-Noon. The first hour got bumped to the second Left channel which is online only when Sirius and XM combined their left talk channels to one merging Sirius Left and America Left.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/10/2011 17:05:54
True, but again, only good for hours 2 & 3. Is it as big a battery hog as the MyFi was? Timed recording was impossible unless you were plugged in.
trojanrabbit on 05/10/2011 17:05:54
Quote by livingonli:
The XM Mp3i has the ability to record XM programming which has some use since they do air the two hours of Momma a day from 10 AM-Noon. The first hour got bumped to the second Left channel which is online only when Sirius and XM combined their left talk channels to one merging Sirius Left and America Left.
True, but again, only good for hours 2 & 3. Is it as big a battery hog as the MyFi was? Timed recording was impossible unless you were plugged in.
Comment by Scoopster on 05/10/2011 17:06:13
Scoopster on 05/10/2011 17:06:13
Welcome to the government shutdown AND credit default.
Seriously, the ONLY way this is ever going to happen is by massively cutting military spending.
Seriously, the ONLY way this is ever going to happen is by massively cutting military spending.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 17:14:09
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 17:14:09
Seriously THom, Obama is now worse then Bush cause he couldn't get gitmo closed and OBL is dead. Really?
Again I'm really tired of this - oh I forgot - congress does nothing its all Obama's fault. *sigh*
Again I'm really tired of this - oh I forgot - congress does nothing its all Obama's fault. *sigh*
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 17:36:43
Glad I missed that one..
Raine on 05/10/2011 17:36:43
Quote by wickedpam:
Seriously THom, Obama is now worse then Bush cause he couldn't get gitmo closed and OBL is dead. Really?
Again I'm really tired of this - oh I forgot - congress does nothing its all Obama's fault. *sigh*
Glad I missed that one..
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 17:41:20
Hey Rabbit, Take a read at this take on things. The Battle for the Soul of the GOP I know the soul joke is a softball, but it is REALLY worth the read. Even the Koch brothers need to come to terms here....
Raine on 05/10/2011 17:41:20
Quote by Scoopster:
Welcome to the government shutdown AND credit default.
Seriously, the ONLY way this is ever going to happen is by massively cutting military spending.
Hey Rabbit, Take a read at this take on things. The Battle for the Soul of the GOP I know the soul joke is a softball, but it is REALLY worth the read. Even the Koch brothers need to come to terms here....
You see, Tea Partiers hate government more than they hate the national debt. They refuse to reduce that debt with tax increases, even with tax increases on the wealthy, because a tax increase doesn’t reduce the size of government. The Tea Partiers’ real aim is to shrink the government.
But the Street and big business dislike the national debt more than they dislike government. And they wouldn’t even mind a small tax increase on wealthy people like themselves in order to cinch a deal on raising the national debt. They have so much money they’d scarcely notice.
In truth, government has been good to Wall Street and big business. It bailed out the Street. It saved GM, Chrysler, and AIG. And most government spending improves the profits of big businesses – military contractors, big agriculture, giant health-care insurers, Big Pharma, large construction companies.
Tea Partiers have almost as much contempt for big business and the Street as they do for government. After all, the Tea Party was born in anger over the Wall Street bailout.
This is the heart of the civil war in the GOP.
Comment by livingonli on 05/10/2011 18:08:27
livingonli on 05/10/2011 18:08:27
And now for fun, Jesse Ventura is on Thom right now.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 18:11:28
you know to some point I like Jessie, but to be honest I can passed the memory of him in the spandex and boa when he wrestled - I just can't take him seriously
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 18:11:28
Quote by livingonli:
And now for fun, Jesse Ventura is on Thom right now.
you know to some point I like Jessie, but to be honest I can passed the memory of him in the spandex and boa when he wrestled - I just can't take him seriously
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 18:12:19
Thom kinda nailed him with the Bernie Sanders comment.
Jesse kinda punted that one.
Raine on 05/10/2011 18:12:19
Quote by livingonli:
And now for fun, Jesse Ventura is on Thom right now.
Thom kinda nailed him with the Bernie Sanders comment.
Jesse kinda punted that one.
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 18:13:45
You have a good point, Mala.
He did sell his personality for money. Kinda makes it hard to be so ideological.
Raine on 05/10/2011 18:13:45
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by livingonli:
And now for fun, Jesse Ventura is on Thom right now.
you know to some point I like Jessie, but to be honest I can passed the memory of him in the spandex and boa when he wrestled - I just can't take him seriously
He did sell his personality for money. Kinda makes it hard to be so ideological.
Comment by TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:15:06
TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:15:06
I just realized that I'll have an unimaginable luxury this week...I can buy a full tank of gas!
Comment by TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:16:00
TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:16:00
Now, now. I have Jesse's book. He's got a lot of good stuff.
Comment by livingonli on 05/10/2011 18:20:01
Considering how "extreme" the wrestlers have become now (especially now that they have to compete with MMA for viewers), there was a certain charm in the old gimmicks the WWE(F) used.
livingonli on 05/10/2011 18:20:01
Quote by Raine:You have a good point, Mala.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by livingonli:
And now for fun, Jesse Ventura is on Thom right now.
you know to some point I like Jessie, but to be honest I can passed the memory of him in the spandex and boa when he wrestled - I just can't take him seriously
He did sell his personality for money. Kinda makes it hard to be so ideological.
Considering how "extreme" the wrestlers have become now (especially now that they have to compete with MMA for viewers), there was a certain charm in the old gimmicks the WWE(F) used.
Comment by TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:23:09
TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:23:09
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 18:29:37
Well, ok.
I still am skeptical.
Raine on 05/10/2011 18:29:37
Quote by TriSec:
Now, now. I have Jesse's book. He's got a lot of good stuff.
Well, ok.
I still am skeptical.
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 18:30:09
proving my earlier point.... 
Raine on 05/10/2011 18:30:09
Quote by TriSec:
Comment by TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:34:01
TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:34:01
heehee!
(Of course, Sgt Slaughter was battling the Iron Sheik 28 years ago...how little things change.)
(Of course, Sgt Slaughter was battling the Iron Sheik 28 years ago...how little things change.)
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 18:34:51
Jesse is no 'Rowdie' Roddy Piper.
Raine on 05/10/2011 18:34:51
Quote by livingonli:
Considering how "extreme" the wrestlers have become now (especially now that they have to compete with MMA for viewers), there was a certain charm in the old gimmicks the WWE(F) used.
Comment by Raine on 05/10/2011 18:37:41
Raine on 05/10/2011 18:37:41
I give up... I was never really a wresting fan. It always was theatre to me, pretending to be a sport.
Comment by TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:38:52
Why, that sounds like Red Sox baseball, although in our case it's a Shakespearean Tragedy.
TriSec on 05/10/2011 18:38:52
Quote by Raine:
I give up... I was never really a wresting fan. It always was theatre to me, pretending to be a sport.
Why, that sounds like Red Sox baseball, although in our case it's a Shakespearean Tragedy.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/10/2011 18:41:22
the only reason I ever paid attention to wrestling was because of Cyndi Lauper and Lou Albano XD
wickedpam on 05/10/2011 18:41:22
Quote by Raine:
I give up... I was never really a wresting fan. It always was theatre to me, pretending to be a sport.
the only reason I ever paid attention to wrestling was because of Cyndi Lauper and Lou Albano XD
Comment by TriSec on 05/10/2011 19:01:05
TriSec on 05/10/2011 19:01:05
Wow, I suck. I completely forgot about this today.
Going to have to stop on the way home. I believe this may be the first time in my entire voting life that I have not been among the first five through the door in the morning.
Going to have to stop on the way home. I believe this may be the first time in my entire voting life that I have not been among the first five through the door in the morning.
Comment by livingonli on 05/10/2011 19:01:34
I don't think the Kilt would have suited him well.
livingonli on 05/10/2011 19:01:34
Quote by Raine:Jesse is no 'Rowdie' Roddy Piper.Quote by livingonli:
Considering how "extreme" the wrestlers have become now (especially now that they have to compete with MMA for viewers), there was a certain charm in the old gimmicks the WWE(F) used.
I don't think the Kilt would have suited him well.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/10/2011 19:06:59
I go back to the days of The Grand Wizard, Andre the Giant, Ivan Putski, Chief Jay Strongbow, Haystacks Calhoun, Bruno Sammartino.......
Yeah, male theater.
trojanrabbit on 05/10/2011 19:06:59
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
I give up... I was never really a wresting fan. It always was theatre to me, pretending to be a sport.
the only reason I ever paid attention to wrestling was because of Cyndi Lauper and Lou Albano XD
I go back to the days of The Grand Wizard, Andre the Giant, Ivan Putski, Chief Jay Strongbow, Haystacks Calhoun, Bruno Sammartino.......
Yeah, male theater.
Comment by TriSec on 05/10/2011 19:51:14
TriSec on 05/10/2011 19:51:14
I forgot how much raw ANSI data makes my head hurt.
But it's the good kind of hurt. (re: I still remember how to read it!)
But it's the good kind of hurt. (re: I still remember how to read it!)