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Murder Begets Murder. Love Begets Love.
Author: Raine    Date: 09/22/2011 12:57:50

I have little to say this morning on the execution of Troy Davis last night. My heart is sad that we allow this sort of injustice in our nation. But there is something else to be said here. You see, 2 people were executed last night. The other execution was of the murderer of James Byrd. Mr. Byrd, you will recall had his throat slit, and was tied to the back of a pickup truck and dragged until his limbs fell off the rest of his body. Troy Davis was charged with mudering a police officer --altho no murder weapon was ever found. 7 of 9 witness' in his case recanted testimony, and Mr Davis faced 4 execution dates. I have long made my feeling clear about the Troy Davis case. I have also made my feeling about the death penalty clear-- I am not a proponent of it.

A friend provided me with this article that gives pause.
James Byrd's family has asked that Brewer's life be spared.

"You can't fight murder with murder," Ross Byrd, 32, the victim's son told Reuters on Tuesday. "Life in prison would have been fine. I know he can't hurt my daddy anymore. I wish the state would take in mind that this isn't what we want."

"Life goes on," he said. "I've got responsibilities that I have every day. It's not on the front page of my mind. I'm looking for happy times."

The Byrd family held a vigil in Jasper on Tuesday, the eve of Brewer's execution.

"He has no remorse and I feel sorry for him, but forgiveness brings about healing. We had begun to heal a long time ago," Betty Boatner, Byrd's sister, told television station KPRC in Houston. "We're praying for his family as well as our family, and for the citizens of Jasper. We already made peace with it a long time ago."

More than 700 miles away in Jackson, Georgia, the MacPhail family have been long awaiting Troy Davis' execution.

"That's what we wanted, and that's what we got," Anneliese MacPhail, the mother of murdered officer Mark MacPhail, told the Associated Press. "We wanted to get it over with, and for him to get his punishment."

"Justice was finally served for my father," said Mark MacPhail Jr., the officer's son.
Mr. MacPhail Jr. was 2 years old when his father was murdered. Ross Byrd was 19 when his father was killed.

One family prayed for forgiveness, the other for retribution. 2 more people are dead, and the murdered will never be brought back. One was proud of his crime, the other always claimed innocence. In March, the Governor of Illinois signed a bill to repeal the States Death penalty saying:
“We cannot have a death penalty system in our state that kills innocent people,” Quinn said. “Unfortunately that system was in grave danger of doing exactly that in 20 different instances in Illinois. And so what’s really in question is the system itself. If the system can’t be guaranteed 100 percent error-free, then we shouldn’t have the system. It cannot stand. It just is not right in our democracy and system of justice.”
Former NY Governer Mario Cuomo spoke eloquently about this in 2006.
NY State found it's death penalty unconstitutional in 2004.

May the spirits have mercy on all of our souls.

and

Raine
 

55 comments (Latest Comment: 09/22/2011 20:24:15 by Raine)
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Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 13:07:41
Morning

Losing internet at 9:30 for a sever upgrade not sure when it will be back up

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/22/2011 13:10:26
It is a sad day indeed. I've not follows the whole Troy Davis saga very closely, but it is pretty clear that there was great doubt there.

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 13:11:10
Good morning.
i hope you will be back ASAP, Mala.


Comment by Mondobubba on 09/22/2011 13:12:59
Who does a server upgrade in the middle of the working day? Seriously. Just sayin...

Comment by TriSec on 09/22/2011 13:14:52
Morning, comrades.

I must admit I'm a bit ambivalent about the whole thing. I daresay that nobody deserved the death penalty more than Mr. Brewer.

I think maybe Raine nailed it last night on Facebook. Casey Anthony killed her baby and got away with it because she's a white woman. Troy Davis killed nobody and was executed because he was a black man.

I don't know what the real answer is...maybe nobody does. By rote, I can name the other countries that execute people....Iran, China, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, and a few others. Fine company we keep.

The Soviet Union once thought that race relations were our Achilles heel; they thought it was the height of hypocrisy to call for human rights before the UN while an entire class of our own citizens were being suppressed by government policy. It appears that little has changed.

I always remember a quote from a geekish TV show, but it seems apropo for this situation...

"We believe that revenge sanctioned by authorities is...a sign of a debased culture"

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 13:23:14
The thing about Casey Anthony is that there was still reasonable doubt. That is the way the system is supposed to work. The system failed Troy Davis.

It failed in Illinois. It failed in Texas. Until we have a system that is 100% fool proof, innocent people will be killed. These people might not be the most wonderful people in our society, but they should not die for a crime they did not commit.

It makes us an unhealthy society. I am not a religious person, but I don't think state sanctioned murder was the teaching of Christ.

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 13:25:27
Quote by TriSec:
Morning, comrades.

I must admit I'm a bit ambivalent about the whole thing. I daresay that nobody deserved the death penalty more than Mr. Brewer.

I think maybe Raine nailed it last night on Facebook. Casey Anthony killed her baby and got away with it because she's a white woman. Troy Davis killed nobody and was executed because he was a black man.

I don't know what the real answer is...maybe nobody does. By rote, I can name the other countries that execute people....Iran, China, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, and a few others. Fine company we keep.

The Soviet Union once thought that race relations were our Achilles heel; they thought it was the height of hypocrisy to call for human rights before the UN while an entire class of our own citizens were being suppressed by government policy. It appears that little has changed.

I always remember a quote from a geekish TV show, but it seems apropo for this situation...

"We believe that revenge sanctioned by authorities is...a sign of a debased culture"
Good points, Tri.

As far as Mr. Brewer I would have preferred he spend his last breaths on earth in jail. That poor excuse for a human being got off easy.


Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 13:26:23
Quote by Mondobubba:
Who does a server upgrade in the middle of the working day? Seriously. Just sayin...


The people who don't want to be here at night

Talked to the other manager who's doing the actual work (not the computer manager who should be) and he said internet should be ok, they are just upgrading the memory

Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 13:27:20
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.
i hope you will be back ASAP, Mala.


If what one of my managers says is true then I may not vanish at all


Comment by Mondobubba on 09/22/2011 13:32:46
Quote by TriSec:
Morning, comrades.

I must admit I'm a bit ambivalent about the whole thing. I daresay that nobody deserved the death penalty more than Mr. Brewer.

I think maybe Raine nailed it last night on Facebook. Casey Anthony killed her baby and got away with it because she's a white woman. Troy Davis killed nobody and was executed because he was a black man.

I don't know what the real answer is...maybe nobody does. By rote, I can name the other countries that execute people....Iran, China, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, and a few others. Fine company we keep.

The Soviet Union once thought that race relations were our Achilles heel; they thought it was the height of hypocrisy to call for human rights before the UN while an entire class of our own citizens were being suppressed by government policy. It appears that little has changed.

I always remember a quote from a geekish TV show, but it seems apropo for this situation...

"We believe that revenge sanctioned by authorities is...a sign of a debased culture"


Ya know that whole vengence aspect of capitol punnishment is the part I find so sickening. When you have crowds of young (mostly male) people cheering outside a prison when someone is executed is just gross.

Along with the prevasive racism in application of the death penalty, I think there is also class bias. When you have money you can afford a better class of lawyer (OJ). After race, class bias is fault line in American justice. It is also the one that people don't want to discuss.

Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 13:33:53
just been corrected - internet for me going down - back in a bit I hope

Comment by TriSec on 09/22/2011 13:40:58
In other news, the markets have just opened and the Dow is down 290 points at the moment.



Comment by Mondobubba on 09/22/2011 13:41:46
Just to add to the down beat, gloomy tone of the blog, REM are calling it quits.

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 13:43:10
Quote by Mondobubba: Ya know that whole vengence aspect of capitol punnishment is the part I find so sickening. When you have crowds of young (mostly male) people cheering outside a prison when someone is executed is just gross.

Along with the prevasive racism in application of the death penalty, I think there is also class bias. When you have money you can afford a better class of lawyer (OJ). After race, class bias is fault line in American justice. It is also the one that people don't want to discuss.
Exactly.

I need to find the Statistics, but I believe it ultimately costs states more to execute people than jail them for life.


Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 13:46:09
From Fox News, of all places:
The cost of killing killers is killing us.
"There have been studies of costs of the death penalty before, but we have never seen the same reaction that we are seeing now," says Richard C. Dieter of the non-partisan Death Penalty Information Center. "Perhaps it is because governments are looking for ways to cut costs, and this is easier than school closings or layoffs, but it sure has hit a nerve."
In the last year, four states — Kansas, Colorado, Montana and Connecticut — have wrestled with the emotional and politically charged issue. In each state there was a major shift toward rejection of the death penalty and narrow defeats for legislation that would have abolished it. In Connecticut, both houses actually voted in favor of a bill that would have banned executions, but the governor vetoed it.


Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 13:47:14
David Bender is talking about James Byrd right now.

Comment by TriSec on 09/22/2011 13:48:23
That's been proven time and again (cost of execution vs. life), and there's also no proof that it affects the crime rates any. The only thing it might affect is the recidivism of the individual, since he won't do it again.

Then we're back to that whole revenge thingy.....to comment on your religious observation Raine, Romans 12:19..."Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."



Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 13:49:04
Quote by Mondobubba:
Just to add to the down beat, gloomy tone of the blog, REM are calling it quits.
Sorry about the gloom.

I woke up hoping that what happened last night wasn't true. Mondo-- if you can, try reading up on the case -- it is stunning.


Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 13:56:53
For Mala, (and my fellow secret closeted Gleeks) when she returns:





Comment by Mondobubba on 09/22/2011 14:03:50
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Just to add to the down beat, gloomy tone of the blog, REM are calling it quits.
Sorry about the gloom.

I woke up hoping that what happened last night wasn't true. Mondo-- if you can, try reading up on the case -- it is stunning.



I've been doing some nibbling around the edges and what I've found so far doesn't surprise me one bit. Police misconduct, check, prosecutorial misconduct, check. a classic rush to judgement based on bullshit

Comment by TriSec on 09/22/2011 14:06:05
I'm also annoyed at France this morning. Two Islamic women were fined for wearing the hijab (France passed a nationwide ban), but that was intentional; they're planning on filing suit.

Imagine for one second what the world reaction would be if they banned yarmulkes?



Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 14:07:55
Quote by TriSec:
That's been proven time and again (cost of execution vs. life), and there's also no proof that it affects the crime rates any. The only thing it might affect is the recidivism of the individual, since he won't do it again.

Then we're back to that whole revenge thingy.....to comment on your religious observation Raine, Romans 12:19..."Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

And this is another reason why I believe that using scripture for justification is a slippery slope. There are plenty instances in the old testament that speak of such violence. Religion should not be used as an excuse to execute anyone.

I know that it is Wiki, but this is good. It's woprth spending some time on it.



Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 14:12:32
There is something sadly Ironic that Jesus was a victim of Capitol punishment as well.

Comment by Scoopster on 09/22/2011 14:51:57
Mornin' all..

Spent a couple hours last night talking to an old friend that I haven't seen in a while.. she's been through some real tough times with medical problems (both her & her family) the past couple years. Next time I go to visit I need to give her a big ol' hug.

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 14:52:52
A MESSAGE FROM TROY ANTHONY DAVIS

To All:

I want to thank all of you for your efforts and dedication to Human Rights and Human Kindness, in the past year I have experienced such emotion, joy, sadness and never ending faith. It is because of all of you that I am alive today, as I look at my sister Martina I am marveled by the love she has for me and of course I worry about her and her health, but as she tells me she is the eldest and she will not back down from this fight to save my life and prove to the world that I am innocent of this terrible crime.

As I look at my mail from across the globe, from places I have never ever dreamed I would know about and people speaking languages and expressing cultures and religions I could only hope to one day see first hand. I am humbled by the emotion that fills my heart with overwhelming, overflowing Joy. I can’t even explain the insurgence of emotion I feel when I try to express the strength I draw from you all, it compounds my faith and it shows me yet again that this is not a case about the death penalty, this is not a case about Troy Davis, this is a case about Justice and the Human Spirit to see Justice prevail.

I cannot answer all of your letters but I do read them all, I cannot see you all but I can imagine your faces, I cannot hear you speak but your letters take me to the far reaches of the world, I cannot touch you physically but I feel your warmth everyday I exist.

So Thank you and remember I am in a place where execution can only destroy your physical form but because of my faith in God, my family and all of you I have been spiritually free for some time and no matter what happens in the days, weeks to come, this Movement to end the death penalty, to seek true justice, to expose a system that fails to protect the innocent must be accelerated. There are so many more Troy Davis’. This fight to end the death penalty is not won or lost through me but through our strength to move forward and save every innocent person in captivity around the globe. We need to dismantle this Unjust system city by city, state by state and country by country.

I can’t wait to Stand with you, no matter if that is in physical or spiritual form, I will one day be announcing,

“I AM TROY DAVIS, and I AM FREE!”
I am still attempting to find out is this is his actual letter, but at this point, I don't care. If his death means we have a martyr, and one that helps to correct our awful system, so be it.



Comment by Scoopster on 09/22/2011 14:52:55
Comment by Scoopster on 09/22/2011 14:56:29
Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 15:00:52
I missed this, from a few days back. Karoli, you will recall is someone I consider a friend. We have spoken a number of times on the phone and she was instrumental in our Health Care Reform Myths website.

Read this, and think about what the State of Georgia did.

Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 15:12:48
Quote by Raine:
For Mala, (and my fellow secret closeted Gleeks) when she returns:








Was Santana too slutty to be a muppet?

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 15:14:12
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
For Mala, (and my fellow secret closeted Gleeks) when she returns:








Was Santana too slutty to be a muppet?

You noticed too?

Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 15:17:05
Santana has grown to be one of my fave characters - definatly noticed

The hair tossing was great. Love to see them make a series of them

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 15:32:26
I was just reading this story, and I saw this part that made me very upset and angry.

"They're going to proceed," the 77-year-old said from her home in Columbus, Ga. Her family maintained their belief that Davis was guilty and said they were tired of dredging up old memories with each review of the case.

"I have been through all the courts, and that is awful hard because they always talk about what happened to Mark from the day he got shot, and you see all the things and the bloody uniform," Anneliese MacPhail said. "That just tears my heart up."


I just have no words.

Comment by BobR on 09/22/2011 15:40:21

Excellent! - This the type of ammunition I can use against Libertarian types that espouse "free markets". I tell them an unregulated free market leads to monopolies, and they say that's nonsense. The facts say otherwise

Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 15:42:01
Quote by Raine:
I was just reading this story, and I saw this part that made me very upset and angry.

"They're going to proceed," the 77-year-old said from her home in Columbus, Ga. Her family maintained their belief that Davis was guilty and said they were tired of dredging up old memories with each review of the case.

"I have been through all the courts, and that is awful hard because they always talk about what happened to Mark from the day he got shot, and you see all the things and the bloody uniform," Anneliese MacPhail said. "That just tears my heart up."


I just have no words.



she's selfish - its all about her not about the truth

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 15:57:37
Quote by BobR:

Excellent! - This the type of ammunition I can use against Libertarian types that espouse "free markets". I tell them an unregulated free market leads to monopolies, and they say that's nonsense. The facts say otherwise
Interesting.

Gramm–Leach–Bliley happened in 1999 -- 4 years after this chart starts monitoring. I found this a little more interesting: (from 1999)
Over the past 20 years the restrictions imposed by Glass-Steagall have been gradually relaxed under pressure from the banks, which sought more profitable outlets for their capital, especially in the booming stock market, and which complained that foreign competitors suffered no such limitations to their financial operations. In 1990 the Federal Reserve Board first permitted a bank (J.P. Morgan) to sell stock through a subsidiary, although stock market operations were limited to 10 percent of the company's total revenue. In 1996 this ceiling was lifted to 25 percent. Now it will be abolished.



Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 16:08:14
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
I was just reading this story, and I saw this part that made me very upset and angry.

"They're going to proceed," the 77-year-old said from her home in Columbus, Ga. Her family maintained their belief that Davis was guilty and said they were tired of dredging up old memories with each review of the case.

"I have been through all the courts, and that is awful hard because they always talk about what happened to Mark from the day he got shot, and you see all the things and the bloody uniform," Anneliese MacPhail said. "That just tears my heart up."


I just have no words.



she's selfish - its all about her not about the truth
I am honestly among mixed feeling about this.

I would never ever want to take her grief and marginalize it. What I don't understand is why grief must require vengeance.

It's ironic. I don't know this person's political affiliation. I just don't see (even tho this might be a non sequitor) how a person can ask government to bring emotional justice. I'm still processing this thought.

Government job is not supposed to bring people to justice. -- it is supposed to ensure justice set forth in our constitution.

You don't bring people there. Justice is supposed to be for everyone -- that is why we are supposed to have the idea of Innocent before proven guilty --

There should be no doubt about innocence. That is what makes me so sad.


Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 16:13:13
oh lord, Dan Choi


Comment by Mondobubba on 09/22/2011 16:14:13
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
I was just reading this story, and I saw this part that made me very upset and angry.

"They're going to proceed," the 77-year-old said from her home in Columbus, Ga. Her family maintained their belief that Davis was guilty and said they were tired of dredging up old memories with each review of the case.

"I have been through all the courts, and that is awful hard because they always talk about what happened to Mark from the day he got shot, and you see all the things and the bloody uniform," Anneliese MacPhail said. "That just tears my heart up."


I just have no words.



she's selfish - its all about her not about the truth
I am honestly among mixed feeling about this.

I would never ever want to take her grief and marginalize it. What I don't understand is why grief must require vengeance.

It's ironic. I don't know this person's political affiliation. I just don't see (even tho this might be a non sequitor) how a person can ask government to bring emotional justice. I'm still processing this thought.

Government job is not supposed to bring people to justice. -- it is supposed to ensure justice set forth in our constitution.

You don't bring people there. Justice is supposed to be for everyone -- that is why we are supposed to have the idea of Innocent before proven guilty --

There should be no doubt about innocence. That is what makes me so sad.



I think the way she is feeling is a result of the victim's right movement, a big part of that so victims can get closure and move on. I agree with James Ellroy (son of murder victim, still an active cold case, btw) closure is bullshit, a single act of the justice system isn't going to allow you to move on.

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 16:30:35
Quote by wickedpam:
oh lord, Dan Choi
On Thom? I turned off the radio.. what did I miss?



Comment by livingonli on 09/22/2011 16:33:28
Good day everyone. Well the way the lemmings cheered when Rick Perry talked about executions at the GOP debate should put away the lie that they represent the culture of life.

Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 16:34:28
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:
oh lord, Dan Choi
On Thom? I turned off the radio.. what did I miss?




nothing much - according to Lt Choi the Pres should have stopped everything he was doing until DADT was repealed when he first took office and the Pres still hasn't done enough. At least that's what I got from it.

can you tell I have no patience for 1 single issue peeps

Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 16:39:30
Quote by Mondobubba:
I think the way she is feeling is a result of the victim's right movement, a big part of that so victims can get closure and move on. I agree with James Ellroy (son of murder victim, still an active cold case, btw) closure is bullshit, a single act of the justice system isn't going to allow you to move on.
Great point.

I have to be really honest.

In every single circumstance that I have felt pain, I just wanted understanding from the person who created the pain. Vengeance is fun to talk about -- but it isn't realistic. Not in the way we are told.

I believe in few things, one of them is Karma. (others include love, trust, laughter and friendship. ... but I digress)

Closure comes from within -- not the government. Government shout prosecute that are guilty of crimes.

JAIL, YES.

Murder-- NO

Closure comes from within -- not from an institution.





Comment by Raine on 09/22/2011 16:42:14
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:
oh lord, Dan Choi
On Thom? I turned off the radio.. what did I miss?




nothing much - according to Lt Choi the Pres should have stopped everything he was doing until DADT was repealed when he first took office and the Pres still hasn't done enough. At least that's what I got from it.

can you tell I have no patience for 1 single issue peeps
AHHH --

I see.

<_<

Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 16:46:01
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:
oh lord, Dan Choi
On Thom? I turned off the radio.. what did I miss?




nothing much - according to Lt Choi the Pres should have stopped everything he was doing until DADT was repealed when he first took office and the Pres still hasn't done enough. At least that's what I got from it.

can you tell I have no patience for 1 single issue peeps
AHHH --

I see.

<_<



am I being too harsh - I'm in a mood today so its coloring a lot of things

Comment by TriSec on 09/22/2011 17:52:37
Things seem quieter today on the email front...of course, going home and chewing some nails yesterday seemed to help.

Of course, burning the janitors in effigy on the next camping trip still seems in order.



Comment by BobR on 09/22/2011 17:56:54
Quote by Raine:
I missed this, from a few days back. Karoli, you will recall is someone I consider a friend. We have spoken a number of times on the phone and she was instrumental in our Health Care Reform Myths website.

Read this, and think about what the State of Georgia did.

Highly recommend reading it. It details everything that is wrong with our "justice" system.

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/22/2011 18:00:36
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
I think the way she is feeling is a result of the victim's right movement, a big part of that so victims can get closure and move on. I agree with James Ellroy (son of murder victim, still an active cold case, btw) closure is bullshit, a single act of the justice system isn't going to allow you to move on.
Great point.

Closure comes from within -- not from an institution.





BINGO!

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/22/2011 18:01:46
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:
oh lord, Dan Choi
On Thom? I turned off the radio.. what did I miss?




nothing much - according to Lt Choi the Pres should have stopped everything he was doing until DADT was repealed when he first took office and the Pres still hasn't done enough. At least that's what I got from it.

can you tell I have no patience for 1 single issue peeps


This is why I stopped following his whiney ass on the Twitter.

Comment by TriSec on 09/22/2011 18:14:50
Awesome...Dow is down almost 500 now.

Job creators my ass. I have a job for you. *zip*


Comment by wickedpam on 09/22/2011 19:19:54
okay here's a very small world incident - a guy I went to elementary school with but haven't seen since middle school married a of mine cousin that I didn't(and she didn't) know I had and I just found out on FB

who weird is that!

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