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Pallin' around with Terrorists?
Author: Raine    Date: 04/09/2012 14:29:04

In DC it should come as no surprise that there are more than usual number of advocacy ads, lobbying ads, political ads etc. These ads reach people who might otherwise not be reached, and are from any number of groups. I enjoy watching them to see who is paying for them, etc. One ad that has been running since at least last August is this:

I admit, I hadn't paid much mind to it. It looks benign enough. I simply thought it was just another ad asking the State department for help. the ad was sponsored by a group called Human Rights and Democracy International. According to the ad, MEK should be de-listed as a terrorist organization by the State Department. It makes sense to support democratic opposition in Iran. We will go a little further into this website another day. Let's get back to this group, who claim to be The democratic opposition in Iran. Mitt Romney's Foreign Policy Advisor supports this idea as well.
Mitchell Reiss, a foreign policy adviser to Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney, on Friday once again spoke out on behalf of an Iranian opposition group the U.S. considers a terrorist organization.

Reiss, a former State Department official, appeared alongside other former U.S. officials like former Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell and Attorney General Michael Mukasey at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington D.C. to support removing the People’s Muhajedin Organization of Iran, or MEK, from the U.S. list of designated terrorist organizations. Reiss, who served as moderator of the panel, opened his remarks with a joke about the ongoing Treasury Department investigation into the speaking fees paid to officials like him who have appeared at previous events.

“Up here on the dais this morning, we have some of America’s most distinguished public servants, most decorated military officers, and most respected diplomats — a true collection of outstanding American leaders,” Reiss said. “Or, as the Treasury Department would prefer to call us for our supporting the delisting of the MEK, potential criminals.”
So who is the MEK? According to this Reuters FactBox from 2009:
The PMOI, which has had bases in Iraq since the 1980s, began as a group of Islamist leftists opposed to Iran's late Shah but fell out with Shi'ite clerics who took power after the 1979 revolution.

-- The NCRI in 2002 exposed Iran's uranium enrichment facility at Natanz and a heavy water plant at Arak, which the West say are key elements in Iran's plan to build nuclear weapons. Tehran denies having any such ambitions.

-- The group was one of the largest factions immediately after the 1979 revolution. But diplomats and analysts say it is difficult to determine the level of support for the group now inside Iran, where many Iranians cannot forgive it for siding with Saddam Hussein during Iran's war with Iraq in the 1980s.
Also of note:
The U.S. State Department has said the PMOI assassinated at least six U.S. citizens as part of the struggle to overthrow the Shah, backed the takeover of the U.S. embassy in Tehran and opposed freeing U.S. hostages.

In the 1980s, the group's leaders fled to France and also collaborated with Iraq during the 1980-88 war with Iran. In April 1992, the PMOI carried out attacks on 13 Iranian embassies around the world, causing significant damage.
MEK provided Security for Saddam Hussein during the Iraq war. From a 2009 report:
During Operation Iraqi Freedom, coalition forces classified the Mujahedin-e Khalq (MeK), an Iranian dissident group dedicated to the violent overthrow of the Iranian government, as an enemy force. The MeK had provided security services to Saddam Hussein from its camps in Iraq and had been listed as a foreign terrorist organization by the Secretary of State. After a cease-fire was signed, the U.S. Secretary of Defense designated this group's members as civilian “protected persons” rather than combatant prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions. A RAND study examined the evolution of this controversial decision, which has left the United States open to charges of hypocrisy in the war on terrorism. An examination of MeK activities establishes its cultic practices and its deceptive recruitment and public relations strategies. A series of coalition decisions served to facilitate the MeK leadership's control over its members. The government of Iraq wants to expel the group, but no country other than Iran will accept it. Thus, the RAND study concludes that the best course of action would be to repatriate the majority of its members to Iran, which in 2003 granted amnesty to the MeK rank and file and appears to have upheld its commitment. The coalition's experience with the MeK also offers lessons for dealing with unusual militias in future military actions and for providing better training for field commanders and enlisted personnel.
and then there is this, from Wiki
After the 2003 invasion of Iraq, MEK camps were bombed by coalition forces because of its alliance with Saddam Hussein. On April 15, U.S. Special Forces brokered a ceasefire agreement with the leaders of the MEK and entered into a ceasefire agreement with the coalition after the attack. Each compound surrendered without hostilities. In the operation, the US reportedly captured 6,000 MEK fighters and over 2,000 pieces of military equipment. This was a controversial agreement both in the public sphere and privately among the Bush administration due to the MEK's designation as a terrorist organization by the U.S. State Department.

In the operation, the US reportedly captured 6000 MEK soldiers and over 2000 pieces of military equipment, including 19 British-made Chieftain tanks. The MEK compound outside Fallujah became known as Camp Fallujah and sits adjacent to the other major base in Fallujah, Forward Operating Base Dreamland. Captured MEK members were kept at Camp Ashraf, about 100 kilometers west of the Iranian border and 60 kilometers north of Baghdad.
What a tangled web...

You will see that this group does not have a stellar history. It has been listed for decades as a terrorist group. It has killed Americans, bombed embassies, they've been accused of running prison camps. According to one MEK escapee it bans marriage, radio, and internet. The group was behind the overthrow of the Shah back in the 70's, and is behind overthrowing the current Iranian regime. And yet, thru all of this, Romney -- as a Presidential candidate -- wants to De-List this group.

I'm not so sure I like this whole the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing. Our recent history as a nation has shown that we have misguidedly supported exile groups without considering the long term ramification. We once supported Saddam Hussein as well, just as we once supported the Afgans in their resistance to the USSR. We still suffer from blowback in those 'engagements'. It appears this may very well be the case in Iran (again) if we decide to de-list this group.

One thing is for sure, de-listing the MEK is guaranteed to further destabilize Iran. Secretary of State Clinton has not made a decision yet on whether to de-list this organization, and I actually hope that she doesn't. They are not freedom fighters, nor are they pro-democracy as the television ad above indicates. There are some who mistake this group as the true Pro-Democracy advocates in Iran. Remember the Iranian Green Movement?
In the aftermath of the June 12 elections, we saw yet again how the MEK seeks to manipulate the struggle for democracy to serve its own violent, undemocratic agenda. Newsweek journalist Maziar Bahari, just before he was imprisoned by the regime in Iran's notorious Evin prison for 118 days in 2009, reported firsthand how the MEK tried to "hijack" the peaceful Green Movement protests by launching attacks on Basijis. Bahari writes in his recent book that "MEK sympathizers had acted as agents provocateurs among the protestors, inciting violence."

He quotes a peaceful demonstrator on June 13, 2009, who says, "Some small terrorist groups and criminal gangs are taking advantage of the situation." She goes on to say, "Thirty years after the revolution and 20 years after the war, the majority of Iranians despise violence and terror. My worry is that if the government doesn't allow reforms to take place, we will fall into a terrorism abyss like the years after the revolution."

Injecting violence into Iran's opposition would turn the democratic struggle into a violent competition on the regime's terms. That is why the regime would love for the indigenous opposition to become violent and why delisting the MEK would be a gift to hardliners who have sought to smear the democratic opposition as being aligned with the MEK. Green Movement leaders have disavowed the MEK and wisely avoided taking the regime's bait, but now some in the U.S. want to use the MEK to inject violence into Iran's opposition movement.
I'm actually dismayed by the people who claim to support this group. It isn't just Mitt Romney who supports this group -- it includes people you would be surprised at, including former FBI Director Louis J. Freeh, Bill Richardson Wes Clark and, prepare yourself: Howard Dean. They have been paid speaking fees to speak on behalf of this group.
Mr. Hamilton and Generals Jones and Clark have been paid speakers’ fees by front groups for Mujahedeen Khalq and have spoken in support of the group in public conferences. They claimed ignorance of how the group treated its members.

“I don’t know a lot about the group,” Mr. Hamilton told me over the phone last week. But in 1994, when he was chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Mr. Hamilton received a report describing the group as a violent cult with a distinct ideology synthesizing Marxism and messianic Shiism.

At a February conference in Paris, Mr. Dean praised the group’s extraordinary “bill of rights.” And General Jones said to Ms. Rajavi: “It is time for those of us from the United States who have come to know and admire you and your colleagues and your goals to do what is required to recognize the legitimacy of your movement and your ideals.” When I asked General Jones last week if he knew that some considered the group a totalitarian cult, he replied, “This is the first time I’ve heard anything about this.”

He said he’d checked with military and F.B.I. officials. “I wanted to make sure we weren’t supporting a group that was doing nefarious things that I don’t know about,” he said. “Nobody brought it up, so I didn’t know what questions to ask.”
I want to make this point clear: the people listed above however, are not running for President. They are paid to lobby for MEK.

MEK is a terrorist group that is also a cult. I wonder if the Republicans desire to overthrow a theocracy is so great that we would support a known terror group? For myself, the ends do not justify the means. I'm not saying we don't have serious issues with the nation of Iran, but this support is disconcerting with regards to our own national security. MEK has a history of attacking Americans. They have a history of violence and they have a history of terror.

A better question to ask is: Why is Mitt Romney pallin' around with terrorists?

and
Raine
 

35 comments (Latest Comment: 04/10/2012 01:40:28 by BobR)
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Comment by wickedpam on 04/09/2012 13:12:40
Morning



Comment by Mondobubba on 04/09/2012 14:18:13
:grunt:

Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 14:36:38
I'm still editing the blog, so please forgive any errors...

It is posted.

Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 15:18:30
wonk kilt the blog?

Comment by wickedpam on 04/09/2012 15:19:56
Quote by Raine:
wonk kilt the blog?



no - work, managers being back and sleepiness put me in mode

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/09/2012 15:32:44
Well...that's disturbing, but not surprising. State (US) sponsored terrorism.


In other news. We are working on death trifecta. Thomas Kincade (crap art), Mike Wallace (outstanding journalism) and...?

Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/09/2012 15:38:39
Good morning, bloggers!

Raine, I have been aware of MEK for sometime. I would argue that we should only support legitimate pro-democracy groups, not those with a history of terrorism.

I will be checking in between job hunting. It is the last day of spring break, so I have some stuff to do besides job hunting.

Comment by BobR on 04/09/2012 15:49:02
Quote by Mondobubba:
Well...that's disturbing, but not surprising. State (US) sponsored terrorism.

In other news. We are working on death trifecta. Thomas Kincade (crap art), Mike Wallace (outstanding journalism) and...?

Jim Marshall, creator of the Marshall Amp

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/09/2012 16:06:03
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Well...that's disturbing, but not surprising. State (US) sponsored terrorism.

In other news. We are working on death trifecta. Thomas Kincade (crap art), Mike Wallace (outstanding journalism) and...?

Jim Marshall, creator of the Marshall Amp



Thanks Bobber! Crap Artist, Hard Hitting Jounalist and Amps that go to 11.

Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 16:24:30
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Well...that's disturbing, but not surprising. State (US) sponsored terrorism.

In other news. We are working on death trifecta. Thomas Kincade (crap art), Mike Wallace (outstanding journalism) and...?

Jim Marshall, creator of the Marshall Amp



Thanks Bobber! Crap Artist, Hard Hitting Jounalist and Amps that go to 11.
Don;t get me started on Kincaide -- He's not worthy to be in the same breath as these people. He was a scam artist, his paintings were barely his own, he ran sweatshops and he forced many small gallery owners into bankruptcy. He's a Sheister --

Also don't forget Alexander Porche -- designer of the 911


Comment by livingonli on 04/09/2012 17:27:17
Good day everyone. It took me forever to fall asleep this morning so I'm feeling sluggish and I didn't get up until just after 12:30. At least the cat can sleep easier than I do.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/09/2012 17:46:02
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Well...that's disturbing, but not surprising. State (US) sponsored terrorism.

In other news. We are working on death trifecta. Thomas Kincade (crap art), Mike Wallace (outstanding journalism) and...?

Jim Marshall, creator of the Marshall Amp



Thanks Bobber! Crap Artist, Hard Hitting Jounalist and Amps that go to 11.
Don;t get me started on Kincaide -- He's not worthy to be in the same breath as these people. He was a scam artist, his paintings were barely his own, he ran sweatshops and he forced many small gallery owners into bankruptcy. He's a Sheister --

Also don't forget Alexander Porche -- designer of the 911


Here's some bait for you, Raine. You know they didn't call Warhol's studio the Factory for nothing. Kincade, Warhol, hell many of the Renaissance masters produced paintings like that; lots of the work done by the apprentices or assistants. The big difference is that Kincade took it to a real assembly line level of kitsch masquerating as "art."

I agree with everything you said about Kincade. I'm just going with the tradition of the death trifecta. Which happends to be Kincade, Marshall and Wallace.

Salon has an article about Kincade today. I'm not sure I agree with the notion of him being the G W Bush of "art."

Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 18:23:40
This is bait I will easily take. I almost wrote a blog about it this morning.

As a person who considers herself an artist, and as someone who has studied Art history and theory---Warhol was no Kinkade. (and Vice Verse) This part is true:
The big difference is that Kincade took it to a real assembly line level of kitsch masquerating as "art."
I cannot even begin to tell you my loathing of Kincaide. It's goes beyond his kitch. It's the very bastardization of what art is.
That's not to say the commercially minded Kinkade doesn't want to join the pantheon of art's elites. Critics may scoff, but Kinkade places his work beside that of two heroes, fellow populist Norman Rockwell ("I've seen every single thing he ever painted") and renegade pop genius Andy Warhol ("He is my hero, and I'm his heir apparent"). (snip)

"We're not in the art business. We're in the hope and inspiration business," says Ford, 40, alluding to the Christian subtext in Kinkade's work. (The painter became a born-again Christian at age 20 during a revival in Southern California.)
...snip...

"Well, it was almost as if God became my art agent. He basically gave me ideas. And one of the foundational ideas he gave me was a way to create multiple forms of art that looked like the original, but weren't just a poster," he says.

Kinkade's divine yet technical inspiration was the perfection of a process by which an original oil painting — he creates a dozen new images a year — is digitally photographed, transferred onto a plastic-like surface and glued onto canvas. Each print visits "highlight artists," mostly Hispanic and Asian hourly workers. In a paint-by-number style, they add a dot of red to a tree here, a dash of white to an interior light there.

There are nine versions of each reproduced image, from Standard Numbered editions, for a few hundred dollars, to Studio Proofs that feature a textured canvas, more highlighting and Kinkade's machine-etched signature — compete with his DNA, courtesy of mixing the ink with the painter's hair and blood.
Warhol's factory was his art. Kinkade created fancy posters. The price of his art was intentionally over inflated for marketing purposes.

And as far Renaissance masters, they oft used people as apprentices. Sculptors do the same to this very day. They were part of the artistic enlightenment. They were part of art movements --- Art Movements. Movements Like Pop, which Warhol was a part of. Rockwell, another one of his hero's, knew that he was a illustrator. I HIGHLY doubt that Kinkade saw EVERY rockwell painting. As a matter of fact, Iwould say that is a lie.

Compare Warhol and Rockwell to Kincade, who paid people to paint by numbers... He printed up his stuff and paid people to make them originals. That is shiester art to me.

and wait -- there's more.
A successful case brought by former owners of Thomas Kinkade art galleries in downtown Fredericksburg and Charlottesville might have helped spark the FBI's interest in the artist and executives of his company.

Palmyra resident Jeff Spinello and his former wife, Karen Hazlewood, argued earlier this year that Media Arts Group Inc., Kinkade's Christian-themed company, committed fraud by convincing them to invest $122,000 to open their galleries, and then ruined them financially.

They won $860,000 from Media Arts Group in a 2-1 American Arbitration Association decision and could receive as much as $3.5 million when the final award--which will include interest, arbitration costs and attorneys' fees--is determined in the next few days.
So all those lovely galleries that you see closing? Hmm....
A California artist and gallery owner has been accused of defrauding investors. The Federal Bureau of Investigation is investigating allegations that self-styled “Painter of Light” Thomas Kinkade and some of his top executives fraudulently induced investors to open galleries and then ruined them financially, former dealers contacted by federal agents said.


Kinkade sucked as bad as his art. He doesn't deserve to be in the trifecta. There are a lot of people out there who believe that investing in his mass productions will be a ticket to retirement... and they will find that this guy didn't create things becuase of his need to create -- he did it to make a shitload of money.

I don't have a problem with people making a shitload of money -- I have a problem with snake oil salespeople. Think about this:
Picasso "had a talent but didn't use it in any significant way")
That is something Kinkade said.

REALLY?!?!




Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 18:28:03
Maybe I should make this a blog post.

This was the end of it all for me:
http://karendelac.com/squidoo/nascar_thunder.jpg


Praise Cheezus.

Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 18:30:53
Quote by livingonli:
Good day everyone. It took me forever to fall asleep this morning so I'm feeling sluggish and I didn't get up until just after 12:30. At least the cat can sleep easier than I do.
Well it sounds like you finally slept...

Hi liv!


Comment by wickedpam on 04/09/2012 18:40:12
Quote by Raine:
This is bait I will easily take. I almost wrote a blog about it this morning.

As a person who considers herself an artist, and as someone who has studied Art history and theory---Warhol was no Kinkade. (and Vice Verse) This part is true:
The big difference is that Kincade took it to a real assembly line level of kitsch masquerating as "art."
I cannot even begin to tell you my loathing of Kincaide. It's goes beyond his kitch. It's the very bastardization of what art is.
That's not to say the commercially minded Kinkade doesn't want to join the pantheon of art's elites. Critics may scoff, but Kinkade places his work beside that of two heroes, fellow populist Norman Rockwell ("I've seen every single thing he ever painted") and renegade pop genius Andy Warhol ("He is my hero, and I'm his heir apparent"). (snip)

"We're not in the art business. We're in the hope and inspiration business," says Ford, 40, alluding to the Christian subtext in Kinkade's work. (The painter became a born-again Christian at age 20 during a revival in Southern California.)
...snip...

"Well, it was almost as if God became my art agent. He basically gave me ideas. And one of the foundational ideas he gave me was a way to create multiple forms of art that looked like the original, but weren't just a poster," he says.

Kinkade's divine yet technical inspiration was the perfection of a process by which an original oil painting — he creates a dozen new images a year — is digitally photographed, transferred onto a plastic-like surface and glued onto canvas. Each print visits "highlight artists," mostly Hispanic and Asian hourly workers. In a paint-by-number style, they add a dot of red to a tree here, a dash of white to an interior light there.

There are nine versions of each reproduced image, from Standard Numbered editions, for a few hundred dollars, to Studio Proofs that feature a textured canvas, more highlighting and Kinkade's machine-etched signature — compete with his DNA, courtesy of mixing the ink with the painter's hair and blood.
Warhol's factory was his art. Kinkade created fancy posters. The price of his art was intentionally over inflated for marketing purposes.

And as far Renaissance masters, they oft used people as apprentices. Sculptors do the same to this very day. They were part of the artistic enlightenment. They were part of art movements --- Art Movements. Movements Like Pop, which Warhol was a part of. Rockwell, another one of his hero's, knew that he was a illustrator. I HIGHLY doubt that Kinkade saw EVERY rockwell painting. As a matter of fact, Iwould say that is a lie.

Compare Warhol and Rockwell to Kincade, who paid people to paint by numbers... He printed up his stuff and paid people to make them originals. That is shiester art to me.

and wait -- there's more.
A successful case brought by former owners of Thomas Kinkade art galleries in downtown Fredericksburg and Charlottesville might have helped spark the FBI's interest in the artist and executives of his company.

Palmyra resident Jeff Spinello and his former wife, Karen Hazlewood, argued earlier this year that Media Arts Group Inc., Kinkade's Christian-themed company, committed fraud by convincing them to invest $122,000 to open their galleries, and then ruined them financially.

They won $860,000 from Media Arts Group in a 2-1 American Arbitration Association decision and could receive as much as $3.5 million when the final award--which will include interest, arbitration costs and attorneys' fees--is determined in the next few days.
So all those lovely galleries that you see closing? Hmm....
A California artist and gallery owner has been accused of defrauding investors. The Federal Bureau of Investigation is investigating allegations that self-styled “Painter of Light” Thomas Kinkade and some of his top executives fraudulently induced investors to open galleries and then ruined them financially, former dealers contacted by federal agents said.


Kinkade sucked as bad as his art. He doesn't deserve to be in the trifecta. There are a lot of people out there who believe that investing in his mass productions will be a ticket to retirement... and they will find that this guy didn't create things becuase of his need to create -- he did it to make a shitload of money.

I don't have a problem with people making a shitload of money -- I have a problem with snake oil salespeople. Think about this:
Picasso "had a talent but didn't use it in any significant way")
That is something Kinkade said.

REALLY?!?!







I believe you also know my feelings about Kinkade. For him to declare himself the "heir apparent" to Warhol is laughable and tells me he didn't understand Warhol, who set out to make the commericalization of culture into art.

Comment by livingonli on 04/09/2012 18:42:09
Quote by Raine:
Quote by livingonli:
Good day everyone. It took me forever to fall asleep this morning so I'm feeling sluggish and I didn't get up until just after 12:30. At least the cat can sleep easier than I do.
Well it sounds like you finally slept...

Hi liv!

I felt like I could have used a sleeping pill and the cat kept wanting to go out and go back in for a while but she finally settled down.

Comment by BobR on 04/09/2012 19:16:26
Quote by Raine:
Maybe I should make this a blog post.

This was the end of it all for me:
http://karendelac.com/squidoo/nascar_thunder.jpg


Praise Cheezus.

Reminds me of those crappy paintings showing 8 presidents playing cards

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/09/2012 19:40:01
Death trifecta: F.A. Porsche, Marshall, Wallace.

I looked up some of the other things that FAP designed. How could we forgot that 80s luxury item, Porsche sunglasses! One of the most pirated items of all time. Now there's your impact!

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/09/2012 19:42:42
Quote by Raine:
Maybe I should make this a blog post.

This was the end of it all for me:
http://karendelac.com/squidoo/nascar_thunder.jpg


Praise Cheezus.



Bravo! The things I can't stand about Kincade are his hyper-realism devoid any artistic merit. When Warhol did it, he was being ironic about it. Kincade not so much. Just cloying, treaclly sweat crap designed to appeal to people with appalling taste.

Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 19:59:03
Quote by wickedpam:



I believe you also know my feelings about Kinkade. For him to declare himself the "heir apparent" to Warhol is laughable and tells me he didn't understand Warhol, who set out to make the commericalization of culture into art.


Thank you, Mala. You just said it perfectly.


Comment by livingonli on 04/09/2012 20:07:02
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Maybe I should make this a blog post.

This was the end of it all for me:
http://karendelac.com/squidoo/nascar_thunder.jpg


Praise Cheezus.



Bravo! The things I can't stand about Kincade are his hyper-realism devoid any artistic merit. When Warhol did it, he was being ironic about it. Kincade not so much. Just cloying, treaclly sweat crap designed to appeal to people with appalling taste.

I guess Cheesus praises cars going around in circles. If you really want to go for the popular imagination, you could have painted one of the cars crashing and everyone turning to look at the flames.

Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 20:43:38
Quote by Mondobubba:
Bravo! The things I can't stand about Kincade are his hyper-realism devoid any artistic merit. When Warhol did it, he was being ironic about it. Kincade not so much. Just cloying, treaclly sweat crap designed to appeal to people with appalling taste.
This statement is why I despise the fact that he has compared himself to Rockwell.

I won't take away from him that he had a talent in painting. Rockwell was willing to be sanctioned to illustrate images based upon request. Rockwell also was more than willing to comment on the subject of the day -- he put forth an image of America that allowed people to think. THINK. <-- that is a very important idea. HE was willing to allow people to think about the social issues of the day.
http://www.non-solo-arte.com/image-files/norman-rockwell-painting-17.jpg


Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 20:53:21
Quote by Mondobubba:
I agree with everything you said about Kincade. I'm just going with the tradition of the death trifecta. Which happends to be Kincade, Marshall and Wallace.

Salon has an article about Kincade today. I'm not sure I agree with the notion of him being the G W Bush of "art."
The guy wasn't the most wonderful person in the world. I don't think I would compare him to Dubya either.

I prefer to compare him to all that is wrong with our free market. Kinkade exploited people.



Comment by Raine on 04/09/2012 21:00:37
James O'keefe, the POS is shitting in Washington DC.

and please know -- I mean the City, not the idea.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/09/2012 21:41:16
As I was not aware of Thomas Kinkade before his death, I thought that the first reference to him as a crap artist was that he worked with excrement. Instead, his art seems to be something to be put up in a bathroom and used as toilet paper in extremis.

While I am not an artist, I would argue that art or literature should make you think, feel, or both. From what little I have seen of Kincade, he encouraged not deep feeling but shallow sentimentality. I suspect that one hundred years from now, we will still have artists looking to Warhol and Rockwell to better understand art in American culture. Kincade may be studied in the same way that our descendants may look at dogs playing poker to gain an understanding of pop culture. (Hopefully, we will not have Aliens Playing Poker in 2112.)

Comment by livingonli on 04/09/2012 21:44:55
The picture that seems to be on the blog doesn't show up on either Chrome or Firefox.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/09/2012 21:51:50
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Bravo! The things I can't stand about Kincade are his hyper-realism devoid any artistic merit. When Warhol did it, he was being ironic about it. Kincade not so much. Just cloying, treaclly sweat crap designed to appeal to people with appalling taste.
This statement is why I despise the fact that he has compared himself to Rockwell.

I won't take away from him that he had a talent in painting. Rockwell was willing to be sanctioned to illustrate images based upon request. Rockwell also was more than willing to comment on the subject of the day -- he put forth an image of America that allowed people to think. THINK. <-- that is a very important idea. HE was willing to allow people to think about the social issues of the day.
http://www.non-solo-arte.com/image-files/norman-rockwell-painting-17.jpg



Will summed it up nicely when he said Kincade's work is
shallow
.

Comment by BobR on 04/09/2012 22:47:32
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
I agree with everything you said about Kincade. I'm just going with the tradition of the death trifecta. Which happends to be Kincade, Marshall and Wallace.

Salon has an article about Kincade today. I'm not sure I agree with the notion of him being the G W Bush of "art."
The guy wasn't the most wonderful person in the world. I don't think I would compare him to Dubya either.

I prefer to compare him to all that is wrong with our free market. Kinkade exploited people.


Dubya: no. Romney: yes.


Comment by m-hadley on 04/09/2012 23:40:21
Thank you so much for this, Raine. You are a researcher extraordinaire! I don't visit this blog often enough, but every time I do, I wonder why I don't read it religiously. I will try to check in more often. I can't get the RSS feed to work. Thanks so much, I rest much easier each night knowing that you guys are in this world! mfaye

Comment by TriSec on 04/10/2012 00:48:59
Evening, folks. There might be some asschub action in a minute, if there's any latenight lurkers. You know who you are.



Comment by clintster on 04/10/2012 01:10:07
Glenn Beck built an Oval Office

I want to add my $.02 o. Kincaide, but I saw this and had to share it with you.

Comment by clintster on 04/10/2012 01:18:06
When I took art history in college, I learned about Jeff Koons, who made incredibly kitschy pieces that infuriated many critics who said it wasn't art. I "got" Koons even if I wasn't crazy about his work. I can't say the same for Kincaide.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_w1iq4z0Unjg/TJtf6EOMuOI/AAAAAAAAA-0/OT6oGqkiVq4/s1600/jeff-koons-00_jackson_jeff_koons.jpg


Comment by BobR on 04/10/2012 01:40:28
Quote by TriSec:
Evening, folks. There might be some asschub action in a minute, if there's any latenight lurkers. You know who you are.

I do and I did