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It's All Politics
Author: BobR
Date: 05/16/2012 13:00:54
It seems like it's only been a few months since the big NDAA brouhaha. When it was signed by the president, there were predictions of doom and American citizens being pulled from the streets as terrorists for doing nothing more than - say, protesting the government. Those dystopian visions of a future police state have not come to fruition.
In an effort to get ahead of the curve (and possibly line up some campaign talking points), the NDAA for 2013 is getting some final touches before heading to the president's desk. Once again, the president is not happy with it and is threatening veto:
So let's see... The Republicans are trying to RAISE spending (while complaining about budget deficits), prevent the closing of Gitmo (to piss off Obama supporters), and prohibit same-sex marriage ceremonies on military bases (which we all know is a serious problem we're facing < /snark >).
Once again, this is blatant politicizing by the House Republicans of a yearly clerical obligation which should be fairly routine and benign. The desire to keep Gitmo open is consistent with previous Republican positions, but they have to know that there is a large segment of the progressive left that doesn't understand why Obama can't just use executive fiat to close it, so this plays into their meme that Obama is breaking a campaign promise. It's a double-win for the Republicans.
The same-sex marriage thing is pandering to their social conservative base. Have any gay marriages actually been performed on military bases? What does the law say about it? I assume that state laws don't apply, since military bases are essentially federal. I would assume, then, that DOMA applies. Regardless, this is just like DADT - a solution in search of a problem.
The big issue, though is that they want to set the budget at $8B over the spending caps imposed by the Budget Control Act that they themselves championed. This shows the level of respect they have for the law, and how seriously they take their own rhetoric over spending constraints.
Last year, the threat of veto was enough to get them to make language changes before submitting the passed bill to the president. I suspect that they will ride this one past the November elections before considering any changes. For the Republicans, even the military is not enough of a sacred cow to avoid political maneuvering.
In an effort to get ahead of the curve (and possibly line up some campaign talking points), the NDAA for 2013 is getting some final touches before heading to the president's desk. Once again, the president is not happy with it and is threatening veto:
The Obama Administration on Tuesday threatened to veto the National Defense Authorization Act of 2013 over provisions related to Guantanamo Bay and same sex marriage.
The House Armed Services Committee approved the $642 billion defense budget last week by a 56-5 vote. The budget is $8 billion over the military spending caps imposed by the Budget Control Act of 2011.
The legislation would continue to prevent the Obama Administration from closing down Guantanamo Bay by prohibiting the transfer of detainees to the United States or a foreign country.
[..]
The defense budget would also prohibit same sex marriage ceremonies on any military installation. The White House described the provision as a “troublesome and potentially unconstitutional limitation.”
So let's see... The Republicans are trying to RAISE spending (while complaining about budget deficits), prevent the closing of Gitmo (to piss off Obama supporters), and prohibit same-sex marriage ceremonies on military bases (which we all know is a serious problem we're facing < /snark >).
Once again, this is blatant politicizing by the House Republicans of a yearly clerical obligation which should be fairly routine and benign. The desire to keep Gitmo open is consistent with previous Republican positions, but they have to know that there is a large segment of the progressive left that doesn't understand why Obama can't just use executive fiat to close it, so this plays into their meme that Obama is breaking a campaign promise. It's a double-win for the Republicans.
The same-sex marriage thing is pandering to their social conservative base. Have any gay marriages actually been performed on military bases? What does the law say about it? I assume that state laws don't apply, since military bases are essentially federal. I would assume, then, that DOMA applies. Regardless, this is just like DADT - a solution in search of a problem.
The big issue, though is that they want to set the budget at $8B over the spending caps imposed by the Budget Control Act that they themselves championed. This shows the level of respect they have for the law, and how seriously they take their own rhetoric over spending constraints.
Last year, the threat of veto was enough to get them to make language changes before submitting the passed bill to the president. I suspect that they will ride this one past the November elections before considering any changes. For the Republicans, even the military is not enough of a sacred cow to avoid political maneuvering.
Comments:
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Comment by 
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:11:48
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:11:48
Morning 
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:29:50
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:29:50
So what do ya'll think about the Zimmerman medical records saying he was examined by a doc the day after he shot Martin and he did have a broken nose and head wounds?
Who is this doctor? If he was so beat up why would the ambulance guys let him go? Seems to me if there is any indication of head trauma they would take him to the hospital. And while I know the video quality is poor why was did it look as if there was no blood on his shirt at the police station? Did they allow him to change shirts? If so where is that bloodied shirt? How do we know that he didn't have his friends hit him to make it look like Martin did it?
I swear actual reporting these days is so lazy
Who is this doctor? If he was so beat up why would the ambulance guys let him go? Seems to me if there is any indication of head trauma they would take him to the hospital. And while I know the video quality is poor why was did it look as if there was no blood on his shirt at the police station? Did they allow him to change shirts? If so where is that bloodied shirt? How do we know that he didn't have his friends hit him to make it look like Martin did it?
I swear actual reporting these days is so lazy
Comment by 
Raine on 05/16/2012 13:31:49
Huh?
Where did you hear this?
Also -- is Momma a re-run?
Raine on 05/16/2012 13:31:49
Quote by wickedpam:
So what do ya'll think about the Zimmerman medical records saying he was examined by a doc the day after he shot Martin and he did have a broken nose and head wounds?
Who is this doctor? If he was so beat up why would the ambulance guys let him go? Seems to me if there is any indication of head trauma they would take him to the hospital. And while I know the video quality is poor why was did it look as if there was no blood on his shirt at the police station? Did they allow him to change shirts? If so where is that bloodied shirt? How do we know that he didn't have his friends hit him to make it look like Martin did it?
I swear actual reporting these days is so lazy
Where did you hear this?
Also -- is Momma a re-run?
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:34:36
ABC and CBS reporting
not sure only half paying attention - KTLK and Madison seemed to have some trouble this morning. I have on AM1350
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:34:36
Quote by Raine:Huh?Quote by wickedpam:
So what do ya'll think about the Zimmerman medical records saying he was examined by a doc the day after he shot Martin and he did have a broken nose and head wounds?
Who is this doctor? If he was so beat up why would the ambulance guys let him go? Seems to me if there is any indication of head trauma they would take him to the hospital. And while I know the video quality is poor why was did it look as if there was no blood on his shirt at the police station? Did they allow him to change shirts? If so where is that bloodied shirt? How do we know that he didn't have his friends hit him to make it look like Martin did it?
I swear actual reporting these days is so lazy
Where did you hear this?
Also -- is Momma a re-run?
ABC and CBS reporting
not sure only half paying attention - KTLK and Madison seemed to have some trouble this morning. I have on AM1350
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 13:36:27
Raine on 05/16/2012 13:36:27
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 13:37:16
Raine on 05/16/2012 13:37:16
I;m gonna go check out Current to see what the dealio is. Seattle is having strangeness too.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:38:00
Sorry I forgot the link
As for Steph there is literally nothing updated since yesterday on her FB page
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:38:00
Quote by Raine:
Thanks Mala -- I just googled it and am reading about it now
Sorry I forgot the link
As for Steph there is literally nothing updated since yesterday on her FB page
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 13:38:54
Raine on 05/16/2012 13:38:54
Not a repeat, issues indeed. They have a tech dude in the room.
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 13:40:12
Raine on 05/16/2012 13:40:12
They are interviewing Dan Rather right now.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:42:45
aww I wanted to hear that! Dang it. Checking to see if I can stream
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:42:45
Quote by Raine:
They are interviewing Dan Rather right now.
aww I wanted to hear that! Dang it. Checking to see if I can stream
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 13:43:26
Sorry I put in a wrong link -- but that is good news anyway -- Alexandria is the most well read city in America -- Even if it is romance novels.
Raine on 05/16/2012 13:43:26
Quote by Raine:
Thanks Mala -- I just googled it and am reading about it now
Sorry I put in a wrong link -- but that is good news anyway -- Alexandria is the most well read city in America -- Even if it is romance novels.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:47:52
lol - at least it's reading - hey, romance is one of the bestselling categories in books. People just don't like to be caught reading them. Heard their sales have gone up since the invention of e-readers
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 13:47:52
Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
Thanks Mala -- I just googled it and am reading about it now
Sorry I put in a wrong link -- but that is good news anyway -- Alexandria is the most well read city in America -- Even if it is romance novels.
lol - at least it's reading - hey, romance is one of the bestselling categories in books. People just don't like to be caught reading them. Heard their sales have gone up since the invention of e-readers
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 13:53:35
Raine on 05/16/2012 13:53:35
Show is back live on my radio stream--
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 13:57:02
I have a friend who writes fan type fiction. She says e-readers are a huge boon for niche writers like her.
Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 13:57:02
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
Thanks Mala -- I just googled it and am reading about it now
Sorry I put in a wrong link -- but that is good news anyway -- Alexandria is the most well read city in America -- Even if it is romance novels.
lol - at least it's reading - hey, romance is one of the bestselling categories in books. People just don't like to be caught reading them. Heard their sales have gone up since the invention of e-readers
I have a friend who writes fan type fiction. She says e-readers are a huge boon for niche writers like her.
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 13:57:16
Raine on 05/16/2012 13:57:16
here is the ABC link.
This all smells to high hell.Zimmerman ran away, turned down medical treatment -- and is clearly heard on the 911 calls that he was stalking Travon, to the point that he got out of his truck.
I don;t buy it. Sorry. I think this is the defense looking to gin up sympathy.
This all smells to high hell.Zimmerman ran away, turned down medical treatment -- and is clearly heard on the 911 calls that he was stalking Travon, to the point that he got out of his truck.
I don;t buy it. Sorry. I think this is the defense looking to gin up sympathy.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:03:40
there's a new easy in self publishing too. I have a friend who self publishes, she's done fairly well too. With publishing being more accessible to new writers I wish I could get my writing focus back, I have a partial story outline and completely stuck with snips that swirling around in my head that make no sense together.
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:03:40
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
Thanks Mala -- I just googled it and am reading about it now
Sorry I put in a wrong link -- but that is good news anyway -- Alexandria is the most well read city in America -- Even if it is romance novels.
lol - at least it's reading - hey, romance is one of the bestselling categories in books. People just don't like to be caught reading them. Heard their sales have gone up since the invention of e-readers
I have a friend who writes fan type fiction. She says e-readers are a huge boon for niche writers like her.
there's a new easy in self publishing too. I have a friend who self publishes, she's done fairly well too. With publishing being more accessible to new writers I wish I could get my writing focus back, I have a partial story outline and completely stuck with snips that swirling around in my head that make no sense together.
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 14:04:31
Raine on 05/16/2012 14:04:31
Also -- -this is a family doctor that suddenly out of the clear blue produces these medical records?
I believe this stunt will be torn to shreds during trial. Zimmerman is full of donkey turds.
I believe this stunt will be torn to shreds during trial. Zimmerman is full of donkey turds.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:04:37
I'm on the skeptic train myself.
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:04:37
Quote by Raine:
here is the ABC link.
This all smells to high hell.Zimmerman ran away, turned down medical treatment -- and is clearly heard on the 911 calls that he was stalking Travon, to the point that he got out of his truck.
I don;t buy it. Sorry. I think this is the defense looking to gin up sympathy.
I'm on the skeptic train myself.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:06:30
I know, why wait for now for this to come out? Back when it was blowing up why not be out there with pix of his injuries and waving around the medical report?
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:06:30
Quote by Raine:
Also -- -this is a family doctor that suddenly out of the clear blue produces these medical records?
I believe this stunt will be torn to shreds during trial. Zimmerman is full of donkey turds.
I know, why wait for now for this to come out? Back when it was blowing up why not be out there with pix of his injuries and waving around the medical report?
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:07:56
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:07:56
and Madison just lost the feed
Comment by Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:11:20
She used to self-publish as well, now that cost is gone.
Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:11:20
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
Thanks Mala -- I just googled it and am reading about it now
Sorry I put in a wrong link -- but that is good news anyway -- Alexandria is the most well read city in America -- Even if it is romance novels.
lol - at least it's reading - hey, romance is one of the bestselling categories in books. People just don't like to be caught reading them. Heard their sales have gone up since the invention of e-readers
I have a friend who writes fan type fiction. She says e-readers are a huge boon for niche writers like her.
there's a new easy in self publishing too. I have a friend who self publishes, she's done fairly well too. With publishing being more accessible to new writers I wish I could get my writing focus back, I have a partial story outline and completely stuck with snips that swirling around in my head that make no sense together.
She used to self-publish as well, now that cost is gone.
Comment by Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:12:48
I 
that phrase!
And I agree this is a little too convient.
Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:12:48
Quote by Raine:
Also -- -this is a family doctor that suddenly out of the clear blue produces these medical records?
I believe this stunt will be torn to shreds during trial. Zimmerman is full of donkey turds.
Full of donkey turds.
that phrase! And I agree this is a little too convient.
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 14:13:02
Chicago keeps dropping to commercials. I'm switching to seattle
Raine on 05/16/2012 14:13:02
Quote by wickedpam:
and Madison just lost the feed
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:14:07
That's what Madison was going, I jumped to KTLK
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:14:07
Quote by Raine:Chicago keeps dropping to commercials. I'm switching to seattleQuote by wickedpam:
and Madison just lost the feed
That's what Madison was going, I jumped to KTLK
Comment by 
BobR on 05/16/2012 14:15:15
But how do you get those Fabio covers on an e-reader?
BobR on 05/16/2012 14:15:15
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
Thanks Mala -- I just googled it and am reading about it now
Sorry I put in a wrong link -- but that is good news anyway -- Alexandria is the most well read city in America -- Even if it is romance novels.
lol - at least it's reading - hey, romance is one of the bestselling categories in books. People just don't like to be caught reading them. Heard their sales have gone up since the invention of e-readers
But how do you get those Fabio covers on an e-reader?
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 14:16:45
I;m still amazed that the police didn't insist on medical treatment -- there was a DEAD BODY.
And let me ask someone this, how many broken noses don't have black eyes until the next day? or at least swelling in a few hours?
ALSO -- that ABC report says that Trayvon had bruises on his knuckles-- and yet the funeral director says there were no visible bruises (aside from the gunshot) -- he said there was no visible sign of a struggle. It all smells to high heaven.
I would not be surprised if Zimmerman had someone knock his face up.
Raine on 05/16/2012 14:16:45
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
Also -- -this is a family doctor that suddenly out of the clear blue produces these medical records?
I believe this stunt will be torn to shreds during trial. Zimmerman is full of donkey turds.
IFull of donkey turds.
And I agree this is a little too convient.
And let me ask someone this, how many broken noses don't have black eyes until the next day? or at least swelling in a few hours?
ALSO -- that ABC report says that Trayvon had bruises on his knuckles-- and yet the funeral director says there were no visible bruises (aside from the gunshot) -- he said there was no visible sign of a struggle. It all smells to high heaven.
I would not be surprised if Zimmerman had someone knock his face up.
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 14:18:12
You know, romance illustration used to be a huge market.
Raine on 05/16/2012 14:18:12
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
Thanks Mala -- I just googled it and am reading about it now
Sorry I put in a wrong link -- but that is good news anyway -- Alexandria is the most well read city in America -- Even if it is romance novels.
lol - at least it's reading - hey, romance is one of the bestselling categories in books. People just don't like to be caught reading them. Heard their sales have gone up since the invention of e-readers
But how do you get those Fabio covers on an e-reader?
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:18:45
there's still cover art - Fabio's job is safe
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:18:45
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
Thanks Mala -- I just googled it and am reading about it now
Sorry I put in a wrong link -- but that is good news anyway -- Alexandria is the most well read city in America -- Even if it is romance novels.
lol - at least it's reading - hey, romance is one of the bestselling categories in books. People just don't like to be caught reading them. Heard their sales have gone up since the invention of e-readers
But how do you get those Fabio covers on an e-reader?
there's still cover art - Fabio's job is safe
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 14:19:18
I think the lawyers are setting Zimmerman up for a panic defense-- and not Stand your ground.
Raine on 05/16/2012 14:19:18
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Also -- -this is a family doctor that suddenly out of the clear blue produces these medical records?
I believe this stunt will be torn to shreds during trial. Zimmerman is full of donkey turds.
I know, why wait for now for this to come out? Back when it was blowing up why not be out there with pix of his injuries and waving around the medical report?
I think the lawyers are setting Zimmerman up for a panic defense-- and not Stand your ground.
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:20:22
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:20:22
Well I should say on the Nook color, the Kindle Fire and the iPad there is still cover art - not sure how cover art looks on the others
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:23:36
this is all just a mess - if the police had done their jobs correctly how much of this would be up in the air?
I mean I feel for police in general - they have a hard job and the bad ones just make them look awful
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 14:23:36
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Also -- -this is a family doctor that suddenly out of the clear blue produces these medical records?
I believe this stunt will be torn to shreds during trial. Zimmerman is full of donkey turds.
I know, why wait for now for this to come out? Back when it was blowing up why not be out there with pix of his injuries and waving around the medical report?
I think the lawyers are setting Zimmerman up for a panic defense-- and not Stand your ground.
this is all just a mess - if the police had done their jobs correctly how much of this would be up in the air?
I mean I feel for police in general - they have a hard job and the bad ones just make them look awful
Comment by Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:24:07
Zimermann has backed himself into a corner with his bullshit story, he's got no place to go.
On a side note, the donkey turds comment went a long way to change my mood. I no longer want to punch people in the throat.
Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:24:07
Quote by Raine:I;m still amazed that the police didn't insist on medical treatment -- there was a DEAD BODY.Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
Also -- -this is a family doctor that suddenly out of the clear blue produces these medical records?
I believe this stunt will be torn to shreds during trial. Zimmerman is full of donkey turds.
IFull of donkey turds.
And I agree this is a little too convient.
And let me ask someone this, how many broken noses don't have black eyes until the next day? or at least swelling in a few hours?
ALSO -- that ABC report says that Trayvon had bruises on his knuckles-- and yet the funeral director says there were no visible bruises (aside from the gunshot) -- he said there was no visible sign of a struggle. It all smells to high heaven.
I would not be surprised if Zimmerman had someone knock his face up.
Zimermann has backed himself into a corner with his bullshit story, he's got no place to go.
On a side note, the donkey turds comment went a long way to change my mood. I no longer want to punch people in the throat.
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 14:25:30
Glad to be of service.
Raine on 05/16/2012 14:25:30
Quote by Mondobubba:
Zimermann has backed himself into a corner with his bullshit story, he's got no place to go.
On a side note, the donkey turds comment went a long way to change my mood. I no longer want to punch people in the throat.
Comment by 
Scoopster on 05/16/2012 14:31:38
Scoopster on 05/16/2012 14:31:38
Morning all.. 
Gonna be a LOOOONG day - only got 3 hrs. sleep last night! 
Speaking of this week's New Yorker.. this article about the Citizens United ruling is FASCINATING.
Gonna be a LOOOONG day - only got 3 hrs. sleep last night! Speaking of this week's New Yorker.. this article about the Citizens United ruling is FASCINATING.
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 14:31:41
Raine on 05/16/2012 14:31:41
AM 760 on FB asked this question:
What the hell?
It links to this.
AM760 QUESTION OF THE 8AM HOUR: Are the attacks on Mitt Romney's record at Bain fair? Or was he just doing his job in an unfair economic system? Weigh in below in the comments section and Sirota will read out your comments on the air.
It links to this.
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 14:32:19
I read that the other day -- that is amazing. Printed it out even.
Raine on 05/16/2012 14:32:19
Quote by Scoopster:
Morning all..
Speaking of this week's New Yorker.. this article about the Citizens United ruling is FASCINATING.
I read that the other day -- that is amazing. Printed it out even.
Comment by Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:50:46
Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:50:46
Added to the general awesomeness of David Simon. Not only does he develop compelling TV, he actively supports charities in the cities where his shows are set.
Comment by Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:52:29
It's Sirota. Who cares? His last Salon.com essay was about the ethics of driving a stick shift. :eyeroll:
Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 14:52:29
Quote by Raine:
AM 760 on FB asked this question:What the hell?AM760 QUESTION OF THE 8AM HOUR: Are the attacks on Mitt Romney's record at Bain fair? Or was he just doing his job in an unfair economic system? Weigh in below in the comments section and Sirota will read out your comments on the air.
It links to this.
It's Sirota. Who cares? His last Salon.com essay was about the ethics of driving a stick shift. :eyeroll:
Comment by Will in Chicago on 05/16/2012 15:27:32
Will in Chicago on 05/16/2012 15:27:32
Good morning, bloggers!! I hope that everyone is well!
BobR, the GOP is all about politics. They seem perfectly willing to risk a government shut down or take other steps that could put our economy at risk all in the name of winning elections.
On a positive note, I am off to a sub assignment in a bit and I am finding some VERY GOOD places to apply to in Massachusetts. (I am waiting on interviews, but it is still early in the game.)
As for technical problems on the radio, they seem to be going around. On Monday, WCPT had dead air for a minute during Rebuild America, the show that now runs 4 to 6 locally with Boston-based Jeff Santos, replacing an hour of Thom Hartmann and Norman Goldman. (Not to Mr. Santos - The city of Chicago is pronounced Shi-CAW-go not Shee-CAW-go. And I thought my initial pronunciation of Worcester, MA was bad. Oy vey!)
BobR, the GOP is all about politics. They seem perfectly willing to risk a government shut down or take other steps that could put our economy at risk all in the name of winning elections.
On a positive note, I am off to a sub assignment in a bit and I am finding some VERY GOOD places to apply to in Massachusetts. (I am waiting on interviews, but it is still early in the game.)
As for technical problems on the radio, they seem to be going around. On Monday, WCPT had dead air for a minute during Rebuild America, the show that now runs 4 to 6 locally with Boston-based Jeff Santos, replacing an hour of Thom Hartmann and Norman Goldman. (Not to Mr. Santos - The city of Chicago is pronounced Shi-CAW-go not Shee-CAW-go. And I thought my initial pronunciation of Worcester, MA was bad. Oy vey!)
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 15:32:57
Raine on 05/16/2012 15:32:57
So this isn;t making a damn drip in American media.
I want Jim to read this ONLY because it is so rare for a REAL story out of Kuala Lumpur.
Bush, former V.P. Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, William Haynes, Jay Bybee and John Yoo were all convicted in abenstia by a Malaysian tribunal in Kuala Lumpur. Granted, this isn't a powerful country who held this trial, and the conviction won't do much, and it's mostly symbolic... but it will send a clear message to the United States that it is not above international law. The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission convicted the eight men after a five-day hearing where witnesses testified regarding torture techniques used on prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay.
The trial was based on the principles set out in the Nuremburg Charter, to which the US is subject. The commission has sent all documents and transcripts to the Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, as well as the United Nations and the Security Council. What does this mean for President Bush and his cabinet members? Well, take a look at former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. Just eight years after he was out of power, he was arrested in Britain and extradited to Spain to be tried for war crimes.
This means, in essence, that these men may never be safe outside of the United States for the rest of their lives. No international travel, unless they wish to risk being arrested, tried, and thrown in jail for the crimes they absolutely did commit against not just the Guantanamo prisoners, but against the soldiers they sent to die, the innocent people who were killed as a result of an unnecessary war, and the countries they needlessly invaded.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 05/16/2012 15:33:43
Will in Chicago on 05/16/2012 15:33:43
Is it me, or do the people on Fox News and Rush Limbaugh sound even more desperate than usual?
Comment by Scoopster on 05/16/2012 15:49:31
Ya know, having seen the lingering damage and legacy left behind (in particular the judicial appointments) is it fair to say that I detest this gang of scumbags more now than even when they were in office?
Scoopster on 05/16/2012 15:49:31
Quote by Raine:
So this isn;t making a damn drip in American media.
I want Jim to read this ONLY because it is so rare for a REAL story out of Kuala Lumpur.
Ya know, having seen the lingering damage and legacy left behind (in particular the judicial appointments) is it fair to say that I detest this gang of scumbags more now than even when they were in office?
Comment by wickedpam on 05/16/2012 15:59:11
wickedpam on 05/16/2012 15:59:11
oh and speaking of Glee - missed about 20 minutes thanks to the storm but saw the great part with Beiste and Puck! I hope they bring Dot-Marie back next season, she's just been lovely to have on the show
Comment by 
livingonli on 05/16/2012 16:09:12
livingonli on 05/16/2012 16:09:12
Good day, folks. I missed all the glitches on Momma's show today that I might have to check the DVR later although they have said Current will re-air the first hour at 6 PM since they must have recorded it so that they have it but it didn't go out on either the Current feed or the radio feed.
Comment by Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 16:27:09
Here's another link. From the equally reliable Zimbabwe News.
Mondobubba on 05/16/2012 16:27:09
Quote by Raine:
So this isn;t making a damn drip in American media.I want Jim to read this ONLY because it is so rare for a REAL story out of Kuala Lumpur.Bush, former V.P. Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, William Haynes, Jay Bybee and John Yoo were all convicted in abenstia by a Malaysian tribunal in Kuala Lumpur. Granted, this isn't a powerful country who held this trial, and the conviction won't do much, and it's mostly symbolic... but it will send a clear message to the United States that it is not above international law. The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission convicted the eight men after a five-day hearing where witnesses testified regarding torture techniques used on prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay.
The trial was based on the principles set out in the Nuremburg Charter, to which the US is subject. The commission has sent all documents and transcripts to the Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, as well as the United Nations and the Security Council. What does this mean for President Bush and his cabinet members? Well, take a look at former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. Just eight years after he was out of power, he was arrested in Britain and extradited to Spain to be tried for war crimes.
This means, in essence, that these men may never be safe outside of the United States for the rest of their lives. No international travel, unless they wish to risk being arrested, tried, and thrown in jail for the crimes they absolutely did commit against not just the Guantanamo prisoners, but against the soldiers they sent to die, the innocent people who were killed as a result of an unnecessary war, and the countries they needlessly invaded.
Here's another link. From the equally reliable Zimbabwe News.
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 16:43:33
It was only the radio feed.
good afternoon!
Raine on 05/16/2012 16:43:33
Quote by livingonli:
Good day, folks. I missed all the glitches on Momma's show today that I might have to check the DVR later although they have said Current will re-air the first hour at 6 PM since they must have recorded it so that they have it but it didn't go out on either the Current feed or the radio feed.
good afternoon!
Comment by Raine on 05/16/2012 16:45:09
I;m going to watch it again later. 
IT was all kinds of the awesome!
Raine on 05/16/2012 16:45:09
Quote by wickedpam:
oh and speaking of Glee - missed about 20 minutes thanks to the storm but saw the great part with Beiste and Puck! I hope they bring Dot-Marie back next season, she's just been lovely to have on the show
IT was all kinds of the awesome!
Comment by livingonli on 05/16/2012 17:12:35
Going to bed at 5 AM is really screwing with my life. I have a doctor's appointment this afternoon and then I have to go back tomorrow morning for a lab test which means I have to get up early in the AM which will be tricky in itself
livingonli on 05/16/2012 17:12:35
Quote by Raine:It was only the radio feed.Quote by livingonli:
Good day, folks. I missed all the glitches on Momma's show today that I might have to check the DVR later although they have said Current will re-air the first hour at 6 PM since they must have recorded it so that they have it but it didn't go out on either the Current feed or the radio feed.
good afternoon!
Going to bed at 5 AM is really screwing with my life. I have a doctor's appointment this afternoon and then I have to go back tomorrow morning for a lab test which means I have to get up early in the AM which will be tricky in itself