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Free Isn't Always Freedom
Author: Raine
Date: 10/11/2012 15:02:46
A few days ago, we learned that WikiLeaks decided it wanted to interject itself into the Presidential Election Campaign with something called Vote WikiLeaks.
A letter written by Julian Assange and published at Information Clearinghouse states: It then directs one to go to the above linked page where, as Assange goes onto write: Yesterday, Wikileaks issued this statement: Stratfor. Remember that name? I wrote of this company, anonymous and Wikileaks last February in a blog titled StratFor: Is All Privacy Created Equal? I put forward a thesis that the there seems to be a cognitive dissonance when we criticize the government for accessing our private information, but celebrate when a hacker group does the same thing.
Let me reiterate:
WikiLeaks has decided to intervene in the U.S. election campaign. Help WikiLeaks run the United States over the next four years
Wikileaks wants to interject itself into American politics in a way that up until now, was unprecedented. The emails that they are making public were obtained by a hack from the group anonymous last February. It appears that they are now attempting to seek money for infrastructure and asking others to do the work with these emails -- under the pretense that they want to alter our Presidential election. There seems to be a ripple in their plans. Forbes reported that some WikiLeaks supporters were angered. Specifically, Anonymous : (Note from Raine: Please see update below regarding this disputed 'pay wall')
So, Anonymous hacks a company; Anonymous then gives the information to WikiLeaks, WikiLeaks attempts to raise money off them, Anonymous threatens WikiLeaks and WikiLeaks backs down. What we are seeing is chaos from the very people that claim moral high ground in who should control the information. I will repeat from my blog post linked above:
It now comes down to money -- or the lack thereof. WikiLeaks acquiesced to Anonymous. Now there is a real power structure to a movement that once claimed to seek none. They are still not transparent, but they still seek power with the desire of altering an election -- with your money.
It appears are becoming what they claim they despise.
Ironic.
and 
Raine
Update: As of this morning, It appears the pay wall Anonymous objected to is still there. http://wikileaks.org/the-gifiles.html
A letter written by Julian Assange and published at Information Clearinghouse states:
WikiLeaks has decided to intervene in the U.S. election campaign. Help WikiLeaks run the United States over the next four years
So, for the next 34 days, beginning on 3 October 2012, we are launching a new fundraising campaign running up to Election Day, 6 November.
You can still donate to WikiLeaks using a variety of easy methods, including workarounds for Visa, MasterCard and PayPal. These donations go to fund WikiLeaks’ publishing and infrastructure costs and our legal costs to fight the financial blockade.
Today, Wednesday 10th October, WikiLeaks begins releasing over 200,000 Global Intelligence Files (GI Files) relating to the U.S. presidential elections. Each week day we will release thousands of emails referring to Obama, Biden, Romney and the Republican and Democratic parties. Today we will publish over 13,734 emails referring to republican(s), Romney, RNC and/or GOP, ranging from 3rd January 2011 to 19th December 2011.
The GI Files total over five million emails from the U.S. private intelligence firm Stratfor. Stratfor is a secretive multi-national private intelligence firm, providing services to large corporations, and government agencies. Despite providing the U.S. government with "global intelligence" services there is no public oversight of Stratfor.
[..]
Through this release WikiLeaks aims to inform the U.S. electorate in an unbiased way through the release of source documents from one of the most oddly influential companies in the U.S. today. We call upon all people around the world to search the emails and publicise their findings using the hashtag #wlfindGI.
Whoever you elect into power, keep them accountable by supporting WikiLeaks - vote with your wallet, vote WikiLeaks.
Who is Anonymous to determine what is or is not immoral enough to have their private information revealed? Anonymous, along with WikiLeaks, have deems themselves as arbiter of what is and is not moral. Many Americans believe that Government spying into personal emails flies in the face of the constitution. Why would we celebrate a group of people doing the same things that we decry when it comes from Government? (snip)
We have a sincere lack of privacy in this nation -- and world. I believe that is a given. That said, I ask: when a group such as Anonymous steals private information and reveals it, how can we expect to see more transparency from the very groups that we desire it from? It appears that Anonymous/Wikileaks had no proof that this company was doing anything illicit aside from what appears to be a "hunch" based on the notion that it may be acting like a shadow CIA. I suspect we will see an ever bigger clampdown of information instead of more transparency.
Let me reiterate:
Wikileaks wants to interject itself into American politics in a way that up until now, was unprecedented. The emails that they are making public were obtained by a hack from the group anonymous last February. It appears that they are now attempting to seek money for infrastructure and asking others to do the work with these emails -- under the pretense that they want to alter our Presidential election. There seems to be a ripple in their plans. Forbes reported that some WikiLeaks supporters were angered. Specifically, Anonymous :
WikiLeaks may espouse ideals of information freedom. But lately, it seems that information freedom isn't free.
[..]
Even without making a donation, the pop-up is hardly insurmountable–disabling javascript turns it off. And after a few minutes of butting my head up against the video message with various browsers, the block disappeared and didn’t show up again, implying that it may be a technical issue rather than a hard-sell tactic.
But that hardly appeases WikiLeaks’ hacker fans. On twitter, accounts related to Anonymous exploded with vitriol, calling the tactic “moneywhoring” and “pathetic.”
“WE DO NOT MAKE ANY MONEY WITH LEAKS. WE DESPISE ANYONE WHO DOES. over and out,” wrote AnonymousIRC, a popular mouthpiece for the hacker movement.
“How totally fucking arrogant. You know what, taking it down isn’t enough. You remove it and apologize or fucking EXPECT US,” wrote the account for the People’s Liberation Front, (PLF) an Anonymous sub-group, using the hackers’ usual threat for an impending attack.
The hackers’ outrage was compounded by the fact that the files WikiLeaks had advertised earlier in the day were allegedly stolen by Jeremy Hammond, an Anonymous member arrested and charged in March with an attack on Stratfor. “Good Anons are in PRISON right now (#FREEJeremyHammond) & indicted for the Stratfor Leak,” wrote the PLF. “You risk WAR with Anonymous. Fix it.”
Update: WikiLeaks has confirmed that the pop-up is intentional, but pointed out via Twitter that visitors can skirt the paywall by sharing a link to the donation pop-up instead of paying, or simply waiting several minutes, as I found. “A tweet, share, wait or donate campaign is not a ‘paywall,’” the group wrote, helpfully adding a link to its merchandise page.
[..]
Update: As of around midnight. WikiLeaks seems to have dropped the pop-up without comment, though it continued to appear for some users for several hours. AnonymousIRC has declared their support for the group again.
So, Anonymous hacks a company; Anonymous then gives the information to WikiLeaks, WikiLeaks attempts to raise money off them, Anonymous threatens WikiLeaks and WikiLeaks backs down. What we are seeing is chaos from the very people that claim moral high ground in who should control the information. I will repeat from my blog post linked above:
Do the ends justify the means? What is the end game? Let me repeat something posted earlier: "The material contains privileged information about the US government's attacks against Julian Assange and WikiLeaks and Stratfor's own attempts to subvert WikiLeaks," the whistleblower website said. I don't believe I need to give the backstory regarding Mr. Assange here. I think it is fair to question motives at this point. I have long held the belief that when a group operates in anonymity we should question motives and reliability. Who is to say that you or I won't be next for writing something unsavory about WikiLeaks or anonymous?
It now comes down to money -- or the lack thereof. WikiLeaks acquiesced to Anonymous. Now there is a real power structure to a movement that once claimed to seek none. They are still not transparent, but they still seek power with the desire of altering an election -- with your money.
It appears are becoming what they claim they despise.
Ironic.
and Raine
Update: As of this morning, It appears the pay wall Anonymous objected to is still there. http://wikileaks.org/the-gifiles.html
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 13:11:52
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 13:11:52
Morning 
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 13:17:33
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 13:17:33
Morning all. I had a thought, a rather rude one at that. What crossed my mind was this: on the GOP slide on women's issues, what's next embracing FGM?
Comment by 
TriSec on 10/11/2012 13:27:28
TriSec on 10/11/2012 13:27:28
I didn't think this was about Ryan's unit tonight...
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 13:44:47
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 13:44:47
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER! 
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 13:47:31
I'm so sorry
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 13:47:31
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
I'm so sorry
Comment by 
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:02:19
Heyohhh...
You know this joke won't make any sense once the blog stub is deleted, right?
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:02:19
Quote by TriSec:
I didn't think this was about Ryan's unit tonight...
Heyohhh...
You know this joke won't make any sense once the blog stub is deleted, right?
Comment by BobR on 10/11/2012 14:03:38
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:03:38
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 14:28:41
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 14:28:41
Quote by BobR:Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 14:30:02
Oh, dear.
TriSec on 10/11/2012 14:30:02
Quote by Mondobubba:
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Oh, dear.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 14:36:23
I'm so sorry, Mondo.
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 14:36:23
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
I'm so sorry, Mondo.
Comment by 
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 14:40:00
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 14:40:00
Mornin' all.. 
I'm feeling GREAT today after my follow-up visit to the sleep clinic. Having the mask was indeed a weird, slightly uncomfortable feeling (because it's constantly trying to equalize air pressure while you're breathing full-force into the thing), but DAMN did I sleep well! Then again, my back is a mess thanks to the damn rock-hard beds and pillows they have!
Oh no!
I'm feeling GREAT today after my follow-up visit to the sleep clinic. Having the mask was indeed a weird, slightly uncomfortable feeling (because it's constantly trying to equalize air pressure while you're breathing full-force into the thing), but DAMN did I sleep well! Then again, my back is a mess thanks to the damn rock-hard beds and pillows they have!
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
Oh no!
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 14:48:10
TriSec on 10/11/2012 14:48:10
How interesting....National has sent out a survey through "Voice of the Scout" asking for some feedback.
The one valid question was "What would you do to improve scouting?"
Well, I ripped them a new one over our membership policy.
I've had my honour and integrity questioned simply by wearing the uniform.
I've had a bona-fide shouting match with a prospective parent over the policy while in full uniform (not my proudest moment).
I considered leaving the program over this summer, but am better now after some things happened at the start of the season.
You all know I've been a scout since I was 8 years old. This is killing me. My whole scouting career has been prep for Javi's run at Eagle; to have this crisis when he's at the starting line has been difficult, to say the least.
The one valid question was "What would you do to improve scouting?"
Well, I ripped them a new one over our membership policy.
I've had my honour and integrity questioned simply by wearing the uniform.
I've had a bona-fide shouting match with a prospective parent over the policy while in full uniform (not my proudest moment).
I considered leaving the program over this summer, but am better now after some things happened at the start of the season.
You all know I've been a scout since I was 8 years old. This is killing me. My whole scouting career has been prep for Javi's run at Eagle; to have this crisis when he's at the starting line has been difficult, to say the least.
Comment by BobR on 10/11/2012 14:51:55
Regardless of your feelings for national policy and certain local douchebags, this is still a fantastic learning experience for Javi that will prepare him well for life.
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:51:55
Quote by TriSec:
How interesting....National has sent out a survey through "Voice of the Scout" asking for some feedback.
The one valid question was "What would you do to improve scouting?"
Well, I ripped them a new one over our membership policy.
I've had my honour and integrity questioned simply by wearing the uniform.
I've had a bona-fide shouting match with a prospective parent over the policy while in full uniform (not my proudest moment).
I considered leaving the program over this summer, but am better now after some things happened at the start of the season.
You all know I've been a scout since I was 8 years old. This is killing me. My whole scouting career has been prep for Javi's run at Eagle; to have this crisis when he's at the starting line has been difficult, to say the least.
Regardless of your feelings for national policy and certain local douchebags, this is still a fantastic learning experience for Javi that will prepare him well for life.
Comment by BobR on 10/11/2012 14:52:42
There's the Mondo we know and love...
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:52:42
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Oh, dear.
There's the Mondo we know and love...
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 14:58:38
It was rather distressing. Last thing I wanted to do when I first got home yesterdee was deal with the stiff lil kitteh corpse.
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 14:58:38
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Oh, dear.
It was rather distressing. Last thing I wanted to do when I first got home yesterdee was deal with the stiff lil kitteh corpse.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:05:13
I know thet.
That's what's really killing me - the things I teach, and indeed, know and love about the program, are what is now counter to National. I still soldier on, but it's like how I felt when I used to do the Pledge of Allegience under the Bush regime. There's a vague feeling of uneasiness. But this time, I know I'm in the right.
No, it's been people at the store giving me grief over national policy that is most distressing. I can do many things with a smile, but when my integrity is questioned....I have a hard time with that. (Direct quote - why do you still do it if you oppose the policy so much? Sounds to me like it's time for you to leave.)
As mentioned last week, I now have this on my uniform.
The website actually says it is a personal risk to take; The BSA's reaction to wearing an "illegal" patch has been unpredictable at best. Folks have actually been thrown out over this.
I like the fact that it identifies me as a "friendly" and scouts with questions can approach me and talk about it. That's really what I'm there for - the Scouts.
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:05:13
Quote by BobR:
Regardless of your feelings for national policy and certain local douchebags, this is still a fantastic learning experience for Javi that will prepare him well for life.
I know thet.
That's what's really killing me - the things I teach, and indeed, know and love about the program, are what is now counter to National. I still soldier on, but it's like how I felt when I used to do the Pledge of Allegience under the Bush regime. There's a vague feeling of uneasiness. But this time, I know I'm in the right.
No, it's been people at the store giving me grief over national policy that is most distressing. I can do many things with a smile, but when my integrity is questioned....I have a hard time with that. (Direct quote - why do you still do it if you oppose the policy so much? Sounds to me like it's time for you to leave.)
As mentioned last week, I now have this on my uniform.
The website actually says it is a personal risk to take; The BSA's reaction to wearing an "illegal" patch has been unpredictable at best. Folks have actually been thrown out over this.
I like the fact that it identifies me as a "friendly" and scouts with questions can approach me and talk about it. That's really what I'm there for - the Scouts.
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 15:13:08
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 15:13:08
Has anyone noticed the lack of Obama signage around?
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:13:26
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:13:26
A Scout is Friendly.
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.
But then there's this:
A Scout is Obedient.
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.
This is where I'm having that disconnect: There is a disconnect between these two points of the Scout Law with regard to national policy.
And then the last one (represented by the silver and purple rope on that patch):
A Scout is Reverent.
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.
My troop has had a longstanding policy that if an agnostic or atheist Scout can tell me why he believes that as reasonably well as our leadership can tell him why we believe in Jesus or Allah, then that's good enough for us.
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.
But then there's this:
A Scout is Obedient.
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.
This is where I'm having that disconnect: There is a disconnect between these two points of the Scout Law with regard to national policy.
And then the last one (represented by the silver and purple rope on that patch):
A Scout is Reverent.
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.
My troop has had a longstanding policy that if an agnostic or atheist Scout can tell me why he believes that as reasonably well as our leadership can tell him why we believe in Jesus or Allah, then that's good enough for us.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:15:21
Yes...I see a few bumper stickers around, but that's it. I work in Central Mass (Brown territory) and there's tons of his signs around, but no Romney signs either.
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:15:21
Quote by wickedpam:
Has anyone noticed the lack of Obama signage around?
Yes...I see a few bumper stickers around, but that's it. I work in Central Mass (Brown territory) and there's tons of his signs around, but no Romney signs either.
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 15:18:08
I mean I don't think its for lack of people going to vote for Obama - I'm thinking its a money thing. We (Manassas Dems) have to buy our own signs to hand out - those things are not cheap! Our local OFA is always out of stuff too.
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 15:18:08
Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
Has anyone noticed the lack of Obama signage around?
Yes...I see a few bumper stickers around, but that's it. I work in Central Mass (Brown territory) and there's tons of his signs around, but no Romney signs either.
I mean I don't think its for lack of people going to vote for Obama - I'm thinking its a money thing. We (Manassas Dems) have to buy our own signs to hand out - those things are not cheap! Our local OFA is always out of stuff too.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 15:20:00
Same here in MetroWest. I see lots of Brown signs (he used to be our State Senator), quite a few Warren signs, but very few Romney or Obama signs.
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 15:20:00
Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
Has anyone noticed the lack of Obama signage around?
Yes...I see a few bumper stickers around, but that's it. I work in Central Mass (Brown territory) and there's tons of his signs around, but no Romney signs either.
Same here in MetroWest. I see lots of Brown signs (he used to be our State Senator), quite a few Warren signs, but very few Romney or Obama signs.
Comment by 
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:25:38
Oh Mondo. I am so SO sorry. (( ))
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:25:38
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
))
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 15:26:36
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 15:26:36
The so-called "sports" morning show was guffawing over Gerry (Forehead) Callahan's "joke" that the only people who saw the A's win last night were Warren supporters because they don't work.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:38:39
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:38:39
Say, Mid-Atlantic baseball fans....none of the series are playing out as we guessed, eh?
But I suppose that's why they play them.
But I suppose that's why they play them.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 15:41:09
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:41:09
Blog is posted. Please take a read?
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:44:17
I did - I am disturbed by this.
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:44:17
Quote by Raine:
Blog is posted. Please take a read?
I did - I am disturbed by this.
Comment by 
livingonli on 10/11/2012 15:49:22
livingonli on 10/11/2012 15:49:22
Good morning, folks. I must admit I haven't seen many Presidential candidate bumper stickers either. I would guess that while the vote for Obama will be split between those who genuinely support him and those who do not want to see the GOP in power. It looks as though the vote for Romney is purely anti-Obama and there is little to no actual Romney support among the Radical Right.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 15:50:53
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 15:50:53
Sorry, you mentioned Julian Assange and wikileaks. I zoned out.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 15:51:15
Are you afraid we'll get hacked? :P
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:51:15
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
Blog is posted. Please take a read?
I did - I am disturbed by this.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 15:52:30
Well I;m sorry this wasn't your cup of tea...
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:52:30
Quote by Mondobubba:
Sorry, you mentioned Julian Assange and wikileaks. I zoned out.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 15:59:16
JOKING
With a point. At this juncture that is how most people react to Asange/Wikileaks/etc. I do agree
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 15:59:16
Quote by Raine:Well I;m sorry this wasn't your cup of tea...Quote by Mondobubba:
Sorry, you mentioned Julian Assange and wikileaks. I zoned out.
JOKING
With a point. At this juncture that is how most people react to Asange/Wikileaks/etc. I do agree
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 16:01:44
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 16:01:44
The problem Assange is he takes his own press seriously. He is a legend in his own mind.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 16:02:31
You are free to write a blog at anytime, Mondo.
I think you might be surprised at how many people are interested in this topic and the general point that I have always made about the hacktivist movement. The issue here is what has become of their ideals, and I think it is important.
Raine on 10/11/2012 16:02:31
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:Well I;m sorry this wasn't your cup of tea...Quote by Mondobubba:
Sorry, you mentioned Julian Assange and wikileaks. I zoned out.
JOKING
I think you might be surprised at how many people are interested in this topic and the general point that I have always made about the hacktivist movement. The issue here is what has become of their ideals, and I think it is important.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 16:02:53
TriSec on 10/11/2012 16:02:53
Does lunch still await us?
It awaits us indeed!
It awaits us indeed!
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:04:41
Mondo, hang in there. I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
In something I mentioned last night, my sister-in-law Holly had an appointment yesterday and doctors believe that not enough blood is reaching the outer walls of her heart. So, tomorrow she has an angiogram and probably surgery. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers. (My grandniece, Emily Rose, is still in the hospital recovering from a respiratory infection. I hope that she will be coming home soon.)
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:04:41
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
Mondo, hang in there. I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
In something I mentioned last night, my sister-in-law Holly had an appointment yesterday and doctors believe that not enough blood is reaching the outer walls of her heart. So, tomorrow she has an angiogram and probably surgery. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers. (My grandniece, Emily Rose, is still in the hospital recovering from a respiratory infection. I hope that she will be coming home soon.)
Comment by Scoopster on 10/11/2012 16:10:02
meh.. screw that moron.
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 16:10:02
Quote by trojanrabbit:
The so-called "sports" morning show was guffawing over Gerry (Forehead) Callahan's "joke" that the only people who saw the A's win last night were Warren supporters because they don't work.
meh.. screw that moron.
Comment by BobR on 10/11/2012 16:11:35
BobR on 10/11/2012 16:11:35
Quote by TriSec:
Does lunch still await us?
It awaits us indeed!
Comment by livingonli on 10/11/2012 16:11:47
livingonli on 10/11/2012 16:11:47
I guess it's do or die today for the Mid-Atlantic teams since they are now both down 2-1 after yesterday's losses. And tonight, I have the Knicks first pre-season game against the hapless Washington Wizards. Now, that the spat of deals have given the Knicks the oldest roster in the NBA, I am doubtful about what they might do unless it's the baby steps strategy and hope they can just win two playoff games this season. And, it's going to get boring until this NHL lockout settles.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 16:14:07
Both of you are having hellacious months. ((( )))
Raine on 10/11/2012 16:14:07
Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
Mondo, hang in there. I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
In something I mentioned last night, my sister-in-law Holly had an appointment yesterday and doctors believe that not enough blood is reaching the outer walls of her heart. So, tomorrow she has an angiogram and probably surgery. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers. (My grandniece, Emily Rose, is still in the hospital recovering from a respiratory infection. I hope that she will be coming home soon.)
)))
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:23:17
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:23:17
Raine, your post makes me ask a question posed in Latin by the poet Juvenal:
This is often translated into English as "Who will guard the guards themselves?" or "Who watches the watchmen? As a former reporter, who realizes that leaked information can have a legitimate place in the realm of public discourse (the Pentagon Papers and Watergate come to mind as iconic examples of the usefulness of such information), I have some concerns over the actions of WikiLeaks and Anonymous.
While WikiLeaks and Anonymous have revealed several important issues, such as the behavior of some of our troops in Iraq, I worry about a lack of oversight. I am leery of any organization inserting itself into the American political system when there is no way to track who is involved and what is their agenda. At least with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, people who were worried about their articles could contact them or their editors. Whom do people talk to with these two organizations. This also is one of my concerns about Citizens United. Lack of transparency and the theft of information are major concerns of mine. I think it is legitimate to ask the people involved in WikiLeaks, Anonymous and the Citizens United groups who they are and to clearly state their goals and beliefs.
In many newspapers, there is an omsbudsman who is supposed to look at the practices of an organization. I think that WikiLeaks and Anonymous do need greater transparency. I also have to wonder about the wisdom of stealing information from others, as it may set up a never ending cycle. (I do respect whistle blowers and we need more of them. However, most whistle blowers try to work within a system to change it ) I think that the people behind WikiLeaks and Anonymous may well have good intentions, wishing to expose abuses that they see, but the road to Hell is said to be paved with good intentions.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
This is often translated into English as "Who will guard the guards themselves?" or "Who watches the watchmen? As a former reporter, who realizes that leaked information can have a legitimate place in the realm of public discourse (the Pentagon Papers and Watergate come to mind as iconic examples of the usefulness of such information), I have some concerns over the actions of WikiLeaks and Anonymous.
While WikiLeaks and Anonymous have revealed several important issues, such as the behavior of some of our troops in Iraq, I worry about a lack of oversight. I am leery of any organization inserting itself into the American political system when there is no way to track who is involved and what is their agenda. At least with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, people who were worried about their articles could contact them or their editors. Whom do people talk to with these two organizations. This also is one of my concerns about Citizens United. Lack of transparency and the theft of information are major concerns of mine. I think it is legitimate to ask the people involved in WikiLeaks, Anonymous and the Citizens United groups who they are and to clearly state their goals and beliefs.
In many newspapers, there is an omsbudsman who is supposed to look at the practices of an organization. I think that WikiLeaks and Anonymous do need greater transparency. I also have to wonder about the wisdom of stealing information from others, as it may set up a never ending cycle. (I do respect whistle blowers and we need more of them. However, most whistle blowers try to work within a system to change it ) I think that the people behind WikiLeaks and Anonymous may well have good intentions, wishing to expose abuses that they see, but the road to Hell is said to be paved with good intentions.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 16:30:52
TriSec on 10/11/2012 16:30:52
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 16:40:12
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 16:40:12
I'm kinda disappointed I won't get to see the debate tonight - holiday kickoff meeting instead - oh well.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 16:40:47
Willm this is what I have been concerned with when it comes to WikiLeaks for a long time. You mentioned the pentagon papers, and I specifically spoke of this very issue almost 2 years ago. I remember at the time, It was not a popular position to take, but in light of what is happening now, I'm glad I trusted my instincts to write the things I have written.
Raine on 10/11/2012 16:40:47
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Raine, your post makes me ask a question posed in Latin by the poet Juvenal:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
This is often translated into English as "Who will guard the guards themselves?" or "Who watches the watchmen? As a former reporter, who realizes that leaked information can have a legitimate place in the realm of public discourse (the Pentagon Papers and Watergate come to mind as iconic examples of the usefulness of such information), I have some concerns over the actions of WikiLeaks and Anonymous.
While WikiLeaks and Anonymous have revealed several important issues, such as the behavior of some of our troops in Iraq, I worry about a lack of oversight. I am leery of any organization inserting itself into the American political system when there is no way to track who is involved and what is their agenda. At least with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, people who were worried about their articles could contact them or their editors. Whom do people talk to with these two organizations. This also is one of my concerns about Citizens United. Lack of transparency and the theft of information are major concerns of mine. I think it is legitimate to ask the people involved in WikiLeaks, Anonymous and the Citizens United groups who they are and to clearly state their goals and beliefs.
In many newspapers, there is an omsbudsman who is supposed to look at the practices of an organization. I think that WikiLeaks and Anonymous do need greater transparency. I also have to wonder about the wisdom of stealing information from others, as it may set up a never ending cycle. (I do respect whistle blowers and we need more of them. However, most whistle blowers try to work within a system to change it ) I think that the people behind WikiLeaks and Anonymous may well have good intentions, wishing to expose abuses that they see, but the road to Hell is said to be paved with good intentions.
Comment by livingonli on 10/11/2012 16:41:30
Working the Knicks game tonight won't allow me to see it either.
livingonli on 10/11/2012 16:41:30
Quote by wickedpam:
I'm kinda disappointed I won't get to see the debate tonight - holiday kickoff meeting instead - oh well.
Working the Knicks game tonight won't allow me to see it either.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:51:45
Raine, I have to worry about any group that does not identify its leadership and goals inserts itself into the public discourse. This often has not gone well.
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:51:45
Quote by Raine:Willm this is what I have been concerned with when it comes to WikiLeaks for a long time. You mentioned the pentagon papers, and I specifically spoke of this very issue almost 2 years ago. I remember at the time, It was not a popular position to take, but in light of what is happening now, I'm glad I trusted my instincts to write the things I have written.Quote by Will in Chicago:
Raine, your post makes me ask a question posed in Latin by the poet Juvenal:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
This is often translated into English as "Who will guard the guards themselves?" or "Who watches the watchmen? As a former reporter, who realizes that leaked information can have a legitimate place in the realm of public discourse (the Pentagon Papers and Watergate come to mind as iconic examples of the usefulness of such information), I have some concerns over the actions of WikiLeaks and Anonymous.
While WikiLeaks and Anonymous have revealed several important issues, such as the behavior of some of our troops in Iraq, I worry about a lack of oversight. I am leery of any organization inserting itself into the American political system when there is no way to track who is involved and what is their agenda. At least with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, people who were worried about their articles could contact them or their editors. Whom do people talk to with these two organizations. This also is one of my concerns about Citizens United. Lack of transparency and the theft of information are major concerns of mine. I think it is legitimate to ask the people involved in WikiLeaks, Anonymous and the Citizens United groups who they are and to clearly state their goals and beliefs.
In many newspapers, there is an omsbudsman who is supposed to look at the practices of an organization. I think that WikiLeaks and Anonymous do need greater transparency. I also have to wonder about the wisdom of stealing information from others, as it may set up a never ending cycle. (I do respect whistle blowers and we need more of them. However, most whistle blowers try to work within a system to change it ) I think that the people behind WikiLeaks and Anonymous may well have good intentions, wishing to expose abuses that they see, but the road to Hell is said to be paved with good intentions.
Raine, I have to worry about any group that does not identify its leadership and goals inserts itself into the public discourse. This often has not gone well.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 17:03:32
The typical American cares more about Honey Poo Poo (or whatever name it goes by), American I-dumb, and the actions of the latest Hollywood-whore. They might get slightly riled up if their favorite armored wankball team was gypped by lingerie-league-reject refs.
As I've said before, the three participants in the first "debate" performed according to their bosses wishes. Those expecting the little Munster boy to get clobbered tonight should keep that in mind.
But hey, I never thought that Wal-Mart employees in multiple stores would actually threaten to strike on Black Friday. So maybe there is hope.
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 17:03:32
Quote by TriSec:
I grow more alarmed with Nate's numbers...
The typical American cares more about Honey Poo Poo (or whatever name it goes by), American I-dumb, and the actions of the latest Hollywood-whore. They might get slightly riled up if their favorite armored wankball team was gypped by lingerie-league-reject refs.
As I've said before, the three participants in the first "debate" performed according to their bosses wishes. Those expecting the little Munster boy to get clobbered tonight should keep that in mind.
But hey, I never thought that Wal-Mart employees in multiple stores would actually threaten to strike on Black Friday. So maybe there is hope.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 17:11:18
TriSec on 10/11/2012 17:11:18
This is not the first time Framingham pharmacy killed someone...
Raine? Upstate NY - patient by the name of Koch.
(can't copy the article - Macrohard doesn't like CBS Boston.)
Raine? Upstate NY - patient by the name of Koch.
(can't copy the article - Macrohard doesn't like CBS Boston.)
Comment by Scoopster on 10/11/2012 17:22:00
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 17:22:00
Well now this is an interesting development.. I'm getting my drivers' license back! Not 100% sure if I can swing the fees to do it this month, but I'll DEFINITELY have it done in time for Thanksgiving!
