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Free Isn't Always Freedom
Author: Raine
Date: 10/11/2012 15:02:46
A few days ago, we learned that WikiLeaks decided it wanted to interject itself into the Presidential Election Campaign with something called Vote WikiLeaks.
A letter written by Julian Assange and published at Information Clearinghouse states: It then directs one to go to the above linked page where, as Assange goes onto write: Yesterday, Wikileaks issued this statement: Stratfor. Remember that name? I wrote of this company, anonymous and Wikileaks last February in a blog titled StratFor: Is All Privacy Created Equal? I put forward a thesis that the there seems to be a cognitive dissonance when we criticize the government for accessing our private information, but celebrate when a hacker group does the same thing.
Let me reiterate:
WikiLeaks has decided to intervene in the U.S. election campaign. Help WikiLeaks run the United States over the next four years
Wikileaks wants to interject itself into American politics in a way that up until now, was unprecedented. The emails that they are making public were obtained by a hack from the group anonymous last February. It appears that they are now attempting to seek money for infrastructure and asking others to do the work with these emails -- under the pretense that they want to alter our Presidential election. There seems to be a ripple in their plans. Forbes reported that some WikiLeaks supporters were angered. Specifically, Anonymous : (Note from Raine: Please see update below regarding this disputed 'pay wall')
So, Anonymous hacks a company; Anonymous then gives the information to WikiLeaks, WikiLeaks attempts to raise money off them, Anonymous threatens WikiLeaks and WikiLeaks backs down. What we are seeing is chaos from the very people that claim moral high ground in who should control the information. I will repeat from my blog post linked above:
It now comes down to money -- or the lack thereof. WikiLeaks acquiesced to Anonymous. Now there is a real power structure to a movement that once claimed to seek none. They are still not transparent, but they still seek power with the desire of altering an election -- with your money.
It appears are becoming what they claim they despise.
Ironic.
and 
Raine
Update: As of this morning, It appears the pay wall Anonymous objected to is still there. http://wikileaks.org/the-gifiles.html
A letter written by Julian Assange and published at Information Clearinghouse states:
WikiLeaks has decided to intervene in the U.S. election campaign. Help WikiLeaks run the United States over the next four years
So, for the next 34 days, beginning on 3 October 2012, we are launching a new fundraising campaign running up to Election Day, 6 November.
You can still donate to WikiLeaks using a variety of easy methods, including workarounds for Visa, MasterCard and PayPal. These donations go to fund WikiLeaks’ publishing and infrastructure costs and our legal costs to fight the financial blockade.
Today, Wednesday 10th October, WikiLeaks begins releasing over 200,000 Global Intelligence Files (GI Files) relating to the U.S. presidential elections. Each week day we will release thousands of emails referring to Obama, Biden, Romney and the Republican and Democratic parties. Today we will publish over 13,734 emails referring to republican(s), Romney, RNC and/or GOP, ranging from 3rd January 2011 to 19th December 2011.
The GI Files total over five million emails from the U.S. private intelligence firm Stratfor. Stratfor is a secretive multi-national private intelligence firm, providing services to large corporations, and government agencies. Despite providing the U.S. government with "global intelligence" services there is no public oversight of Stratfor.
[..]
Through this release WikiLeaks aims to inform the U.S. electorate in an unbiased way through the release of source documents from one of the most oddly influential companies in the U.S. today. We call upon all people around the world to search the emails and publicise their findings using the hashtag #wlfindGI.
Whoever you elect into power, keep them accountable by supporting WikiLeaks - vote with your wallet, vote WikiLeaks.
Who is Anonymous to determine what is or is not immoral enough to have their private information revealed? Anonymous, along with WikiLeaks, have deems themselves as arbiter of what is and is not moral. Many Americans believe that Government spying into personal emails flies in the face of the constitution. Why would we celebrate a group of people doing the same things that we decry when it comes from Government? (snip)
We have a sincere lack of privacy in this nation -- and world. I believe that is a given. That said, I ask: when a group such as Anonymous steals private information and reveals it, how can we expect to see more transparency from the very groups that we desire it from? It appears that Anonymous/Wikileaks had no proof that this company was doing anything illicit aside from what appears to be a "hunch" based on the notion that it may be acting like a shadow CIA. I suspect we will see an ever bigger clampdown of information instead of more transparency.
Let me reiterate:
Wikileaks wants to interject itself into American politics in a way that up until now, was unprecedented. The emails that they are making public were obtained by a hack from the group anonymous last February. It appears that they are now attempting to seek money for infrastructure and asking others to do the work with these emails -- under the pretense that they want to alter our Presidential election. There seems to be a ripple in their plans. Forbes reported that some WikiLeaks supporters were angered. Specifically, Anonymous :
WikiLeaks may espouse ideals of information freedom. But lately, it seems that information freedom isn't free.
[..]
Even without making a donation, the pop-up is hardly insurmountable–disabling javascript turns it off. And after a few minutes of butting my head up against the video message with various browsers, the block disappeared and didn’t show up again, implying that it may be a technical issue rather than a hard-sell tactic.
But that hardly appeases WikiLeaks’ hacker fans. On twitter, accounts related to Anonymous exploded with vitriol, calling the tactic “moneywhoring” and “pathetic.”
“WE DO NOT MAKE ANY MONEY WITH LEAKS. WE DESPISE ANYONE WHO DOES. over and out,” wrote AnonymousIRC, a popular mouthpiece for the hacker movement.
“How totally fucking arrogant. You know what, taking it down isn’t enough. You remove it and apologize or fucking EXPECT US,” wrote the account for the People’s Liberation Front, (PLF) an Anonymous sub-group, using the hackers’ usual threat for an impending attack.
The hackers’ outrage was compounded by the fact that the files WikiLeaks had advertised earlier in the day were allegedly stolen by Jeremy Hammond, an Anonymous member arrested and charged in March with an attack on Stratfor. “Good Anons are in PRISON right now (#FREEJeremyHammond) & indicted for the Stratfor Leak,” wrote the PLF. “You risk WAR with Anonymous. Fix it.”
Update: WikiLeaks has confirmed that the pop-up is intentional, but pointed out via Twitter that visitors can skirt the paywall by sharing a link to the donation pop-up instead of paying, or simply waiting several minutes, as I found. “A tweet, share, wait or donate campaign is not a ‘paywall,’” the group wrote, helpfully adding a link to its merchandise page.
[..]
Update: As of around midnight. WikiLeaks seems to have dropped the pop-up without comment, though it continued to appear for some users for several hours. AnonymousIRC has declared their support for the group again.
So, Anonymous hacks a company; Anonymous then gives the information to WikiLeaks, WikiLeaks attempts to raise money off them, Anonymous threatens WikiLeaks and WikiLeaks backs down. What we are seeing is chaos from the very people that claim moral high ground in who should control the information. I will repeat from my blog post linked above:
Do the ends justify the means? What is the end game? Let me repeat something posted earlier: "The material contains privileged information about the US government's attacks against Julian Assange and WikiLeaks and Stratfor's own attempts to subvert WikiLeaks," the whistleblower website said. I don't believe I need to give the backstory regarding Mr. Assange here. I think it is fair to question motives at this point. I have long held the belief that when a group operates in anonymity we should question motives and reliability. Who is to say that you or I won't be next for writing something unsavory about WikiLeaks or anonymous?
It now comes down to money -- or the lack thereof. WikiLeaks acquiesced to Anonymous. Now there is a real power structure to a movement that once claimed to seek none. They are still not transparent, but they still seek power with the desire of altering an election -- with your money.
It appears are becoming what they claim they despise.
Ironic.
and Raine
Update: As of this morning, It appears the pay wall Anonymous objected to is still there. http://wikileaks.org/the-gifiles.html
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 13:11:52
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 13:11:52
Morning 
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 13:17:33
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 13:17:33
Morning all. I had a thought, a rather rude one at that. What crossed my mind was this: on the GOP slide on women's issues, what's next embracing FGM?
Comment by 
TriSec on 10/11/2012 13:27:28
TriSec on 10/11/2012 13:27:28
I didn't think this was about Ryan's unit tonight...
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 13:44:47
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 13:44:47
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER! 
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 13:47:31
I'm so sorry
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 13:47:31
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
I'm so sorry
Comment by 
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:02:19
Heyohhh...
You know this joke won't make any sense once the blog stub is deleted, right?
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:02:19
Quote by TriSec:
I didn't think this was about Ryan's unit tonight...
Heyohhh...
You know this joke won't make any sense once the blog stub is deleted, right?
Comment by BobR on 10/11/2012 14:03:38
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:03:38
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 14:28:41
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 14:28:41
Quote by BobR:Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 14:30:02
Oh, dear.
TriSec on 10/11/2012 14:30:02
Quote by Mondobubba:
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Oh, dear.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 14:36:23
I'm so sorry, Mondo.
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 14:36:23
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
I'm so sorry, Mondo.
Comment by 
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 14:40:00
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 14:40:00
Mornin' all.. 
I'm feeling GREAT today after my follow-up visit to the sleep clinic. Having the mask was indeed a weird, slightly uncomfortable feeling (because it's constantly trying to equalize air pressure while you're breathing full-force into the thing), but DAMN did I sleep well! Then again, my back is a mess thanks to the damn rock-hard beds and pillows they have!
Oh no!
I'm feeling GREAT today after my follow-up visit to the sleep clinic. Having the mask was indeed a weird, slightly uncomfortable feeling (because it's constantly trying to equalize air pressure while you're breathing full-force into the thing), but DAMN did I sleep well! Then again, my back is a mess thanks to the damn rock-hard beds and pillows they have!
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
Oh no!
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 14:48:10
TriSec on 10/11/2012 14:48:10
How interesting....National has sent out a survey through "Voice of the Scout" asking for some feedback.
The one valid question was "What would you do to improve scouting?"
Well, I ripped them a new one over our membership policy.
I've had my honour and integrity questioned simply by wearing the uniform.
I've had a bona-fide shouting match with a prospective parent over the policy while in full uniform (not my proudest moment).
I considered leaving the program over this summer, but am better now after some things happened at the start of the season.
You all know I've been a scout since I was 8 years old. This is killing me. My whole scouting career has been prep for Javi's run at Eagle; to have this crisis when he's at the starting line has been difficult, to say the least.
The one valid question was "What would you do to improve scouting?"
Well, I ripped them a new one over our membership policy.
I've had my honour and integrity questioned simply by wearing the uniform.
I've had a bona-fide shouting match with a prospective parent over the policy while in full uniform (not my proudest moment).
I considered leaving the program over this summer, but am better now after some things happened at the start of the season.
You all know I've been a scout since I was 8 years old. This is killing me. My whole scouting career has been prep for Javi's run at Eagle; to have this crisis when he's at the starting line has been difficult, to say the least.
Comment by BobR on 10/11/2012 14:51:55
Regardless of your feelings for national policy and certain local douchebags, this is still a fantastic learning experience for Javi that will prepare him well for life.
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:51:55
Quote by TriSec:
How interesting....National has sent out a survey through "Voice of the Scout" asking for some feedback.
The one valid question was "What would you do to improve scouting?"
Well, I ripped them a new one over our membership policy.
I've had my honour and integrity questioned simply by wearing the uniform.
I've had a bona-fide shouting match with a prospective parent over the policy while in full uniform (not my proudest moment).
I considered leaving the program over this summer, but am better now after some things happened at the start of the season.
You all know I've been a scout since I was 8 years old. This is killing me. My whole scouting career has been prep for Javi's run at Eagle; to have this crisis when he's at the starting line has been difficult, to say the least.
Regardless of your feelings for national policy and certain local douchebags, this is still a fantastic learning experience for Javi that will prepare him well for life.
Comment by BobR on 10/11/2012 14:52:42
There's the Mondo we know and love...
BobR on 10/11/2012 14:52:42
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Oh, dear.
There's the Mondo we know and love...
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 14:58:38
It was rather distressing. Last thing I wanted to do when I first got home yesterdee was deal with the stiff lil kitteh corpse.
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 14:58:38
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
That was one flat, stiff kitteh corpse. Do you know how hard it is wrap something that is more or less a triangle?
Oh, dear.
It was rather distressing. Last thing I wanted to do when I first got home yesterdee was deal with the stiff lil kitteh corpse.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:05:13
I know thet.
That's what's really killing me - the things I teach, and indeed, know and love about the program, are what is now counter to National. I still soldier on, but it's like how I felt when I used to do the Pledge of Allegience under the Bush regime. There's a vague feeling of uneasiness. But this time, I know I'm in the right.
No, it's been people at the store giving me grief over national policy that is most distressing. I can do many things with a smile, but when my integrity is questioned....I have a hard time with that. (Direct quote - why do you still do it if you oppose the policy so much? Sounds to me like it's time for you to leave.)
As mentioned last week, I now have this on my uniform.
The website actually says it is a personal risk to take; The BSA's reaction to wearing an "illegal" patch has been unpredictable at best. Folks have actually been thrown out over this.
I like the fact that it identifies me as a "friendly" and scouts with questions can approach me and talk about it. That's really what I'm there for - the Scouts.
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:05:13
Quote by BobR:
Regardless of your feelings for national policy and certain local douchebags, this is still a fantastic learning experience for Javi that will prepare him well for life.
I know thet.
That's what's really killing me - the things I teach, and indeed, know and love about the program, are what is now counter to National. I still soldier on, but it's like how I felt when I used to do the Pledge of Allegience under the Bush regime. There's a vague feeling of uneasiness. But this time, I know I'm in the right.
No, it's been people at the store giving me grief over national policy that is most distressing. I can do many things with a smile, but when my integrity is questioned....I have a hard time with that. (Direct quote - why do you still do it if you oppose the policy so much? Sounds to me like it's time for you to leave.)
As mentioned last week, I now have this on my uniform.
The website actually says it is a personal risk to take; The BSA's reaction to wearing an "illegal" patch has been unpredictable at best. Folks have actually been thrown out over this.
I like the fact that it identifies me as a "friendly" and scouts with questions can approach me and talk about it. That's really what I'm there for - the Scouts.
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 15:13:08
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 15:13:08
Has anyone noticed the lack of Obama signage around?
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:13:26
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:13:26
A Scout is Friendly.
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.
But then there's this:
A Scout is Obedient.
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.
This is where I'm having that disconnect: There is a disconnect between these two points of the Scout Law with regard to national policy.
And then the last one (represented by the silver and purple rope on that patch):
A Scout is Reverent.
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.
My troop has had a longstanding policy that if an agnostic or atheist Scout can tell me why he believes that as reasonably well as our leadership can tell him why we believe in Jesus or Allah, then that's good enough for us.
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.
But then there's this:
A Scout is Obedient.
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.
This is where I'm having that disconnect: There is a disconnect between these two points of the Scout Law with regard to national policy.
And then the last one (represented by the silver and purple rope on that patch):
A Scout is Reverent.
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.
My troop has had a longstanding policy that if an agnostic or atheist Scout can tell me why he believes that as reasonably well as our leadership can tell him why we believe in Jesus or Allah, then that's good enough for us.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:15:21
Yes...I see a few bumper stickers around, but that's it. I work in Central Mass (Brown territory) and there's tons of his signs around, but no Romney signs either.
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:15:21
Quote by wickedpam:
Has anyone noticed the lack of Obama signage around?
Yes...I see a few bumper stickers around, but that's it. I work in Central Mass (Brown territory) and there's tons of his signs around, but no Romney signs either.
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 15:18:08
I mean I don't think its for lack of people going to vote for Obama - I'm thinking its a money thing. We (Manassas Dems) have to buy our own signs to hand out - those things are not cheap! Our local OFA is always out of stuff too.
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 15:18:08
Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
Has anyone noticed the lack of Obama signage around?
Yes...I see a few bumper stickers around, but that's it. I work in Central Mass (Brown territory) and there's tons of his signs around, but no Romney signs either.
I mean I don't think its for lack of people going to vote for Obama - I'm thinking its a money thing. We (Manassas Dems) have to buy our own signs to hand out - those things are not cheap! Our local OFA is always out of stuff too.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 15:20:00
Same here in MetroWest. I see lots of Brown signs (he used to be our State Senator), quite a few Warren signs, but very few Romney or Obama signs.
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 15:20:00
Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
Has anyone noticed the lack of Obama signage around?
Yes...I see a few bumper stickers around, but that's it. I work in Central Mass (Brown territory) and there's tons of his signs around, but no Romney signs either.
Same here in MetroWest. I see lots of Brown signs (he used to be our State Senator), quite a few Warren signs, but very few Romney or Obama signs.
Comment by 
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:25:38
Oh Mondo. I am so SO sorry. (( ))
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:25:38
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
))
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 15:26:36
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 15:26:36
The so-called "sports" morning show was guffawing over Gerry (Forehead) Callahan's "joke" that the only people who saw the A's win last night were Warren supporters because they don't work.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:38:39
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:38:39
Say, Mid-Atlantic baseball fans....none of the series are playing out as we guessed, eh?
But I suppose that's why they play them.
But I suppose that's why they play them.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 15:41:09
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:41:09
Blog is posted. Please take a read?
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:44:17
I did - I am disturbed by this.
TriSec on 10/11/2012 15:44:17
Quote by Raine:
Blog is posted. Please take a read?
I did - I am disturbed by this.
Comment by 
livingonli on 10/11/2012 15:49:22
livingonli on 10/11/2012 15:49:22
Good morning, folks. I must admit I haven't seen many Presidential candidate bumper stickers either. I would guess that while the vote for Obama will be split between those who genuinely support him and those who do not want to see the GOP in power. It looks as though the vote for Romney is purely anti-Obama and there is little to no actual Romney support among the Radical Right.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 15:50:53
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 15:50:53
Sorry, you mentioned Julian Assange and wikileaks. I zoned out.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 15:51:15
Are you afraid we'll get hacked? :P
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:51:15
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
Blog is posted. Please take a read?
I did - I am disturbed by this.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 15:52:30
Well I;m sorry this wasn't your cup of tea...
Raine on 10/11/2012 15:52:30
Quote by Mondobubba:
Sorry, you mentioned Julian Assange and wikileaks. I zoned out.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 15:59:16
JOKING
With a point. At this juncture that is how most people react to Asange/Wikileaks/etc. I do agree
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 15:59:16
Quote by Raine:Well I;m sorry this wasn't your cup of tea...Quote by Mondobubba:
Sorry, you mentioned Julian Assange and wikileaks. I zoned out.
JOKING
With a point. At this juncture that is how most people react to Asange/Wikileaks/etc. I do agree
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 16:01:44
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 16:01:44
The problem Assange is he takes his own press seriously. He is a legend in his own mind.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 16:02:31
You are free to write a blog at anytime, Mondo.
I think you might be surprised at how many people are interested in this topic and the general point that I have always made about the hacktivist movement. The issue here is what has become of their ideals, and I think it is important.
Raine on 10/11/2012 16:02:31
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:Well I;m sorry this wasn't your cup of tea...Quote by Mondobubba:
Sorry, you mentioned Julian Assange and wikileaks. I zoned out.
JOKING
I think you might be surprised at how many people are interested in this topic and the general point that I have always made about the hacktivist movement. The issue here is what has become of their ideals, and I think it is important.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 16:02:53
TriSec on 10/11/2012 16:02:53
Does lunch still await us?
It awaits us indeed!
It awaits us indeed!
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:04:41
Mondo, hang in there. I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
In something I mentioned last night, my sister-in-law Holly had an appointment yesterday and doctors believe that not enough blood is reaching the outer walls of her heart. So, tomorrow she has an angiogram and probably surgery. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers. (My grandniece, Emily Rose, is still in the hospital recovering from a respiratory infection. I hope that she will be coming home soon.)
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:04:41
Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
Mondo, hang in there. I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
In something I mentioned last night, my sister-in-law Holly had an appointment yesterday and doctors believe that not enough blood is reaching the outer walls of her heart. So, tomorrow she has an angiogram and probably surgery. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers. (My grandniece, Emily Rose, is still in the hospital recovering from a respiratory infection. I hope that she will be coming home soon.)
Comment by Scoopster on 10/11/2012 16:10:02
meh.. screw that moron.
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 16:10:02
Quote by trojanrabbit:
The so-called "sports" morning show was guffawing over Gerry (Forehead) Callahan's "joke" that the only people who saw the A's win last night were Warren supporters because they don't work.
meh.. screw that moron.
Comment by BobR on 10/11/2012 16:11:35
BobR on 10/11/2012 16:11:35
Quote by TriSec:
Does lunch still await us?
It awaits us indeed!
Comment by livingonli on 10/11/2012 16:11:47
livingonli on 10/11/2012 16:11:47
I guess it's do or die today for the Mid-Atlantic teams since they are now both down 2-1 after yesterday's losses. And tonight, I have the Knicks first pre-season game against the hapless Washington Wizards. Now, that the spat of deals have given the Knicks the oldest roster in the NBA, I am doubtful about what they might do unless it's the baby steps strategy and hope they can just win two playoff games this season. And, it's going to get boring until this NHL lockout settles.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 16:14:07
Both of you are having hellacious months. ((( )))
Raine on 10/11/2012 16:14:07
Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by Mondobubba:
For those of you who missed it, Missie died yesterday. WORST.MONTH.EVER!
Mondo, hang in there. I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
In something I mentioned last night, my sister-in-law Holly had an appointment yesterday and doctors believe that not enough blood is reaching the outer walls of her heart. So, tomorrow she has an angiogram and probably surgery. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers. (My grandniece, Emily Rose, is still in the hospital recovering from a respiratory infection. I hope that she will be coming home soon.)
)))
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:23:17
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:23:17
Raine, your post makes me ask a question posed in Latin by the poet Juvenal:
This is often translated into English as "Who will guard the guards themselves?" or "Who watches the watchmen? As a former reporter, who realizes that leaked information can have a legitimate place in the realm of public discourse (the Pentagon Papers and Watergate come to mind as iconic examples of the usefulness of such information), I have some concerns over the actions of WikiLeaks and Anonymous.
While WikiLeaks and Anonymous have revealed several important issues, such as the behavior of some of our troops in Iraq, I worry about a lack of oversight. I am leery of any organization inserting itself into the American political system when there is no way to track who is involved and what is their agenda. At least with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, people who were worried about their articles could contact them or their editors. Whom do people talk to with these two organizations. This also is one of my concerns about Citizens United. Lack of transparency and the theft of information are major concerns of mine. I think it is legitimate to ask the people involved in WikiLeaks, Anonymous and the Citizens United groups who they are and to clearly state their goals and beliefs.
In many newspapers, there is an omsbudsman who is supposed to look at the practices of an organization. I think that WikiLeaks and Anonymous do need greater transparency. I also have to wonder about the wisdom of stealing information from others, as it may set up a never ending cycle. (I do respect whistle blowers and we need more of them. However, most whistle blowers try to work within a system to change it ) I think that the people behind WikiLeaks and Anonymous may well have good intentions, wishing to expose abuses that they see, but the road to Hell is said to be paved with good intentions.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
This is often translated into English as "Who will guard the guards themselves?" or "Who watches the watchmen? As a former reporter, who realizes that leaked information can have a legitimate place in the realm of public discourse (the Pentagon Papers and Watergate come to mind as iconic examples of the usefulness of such information), I have some concerns over the actions of WikiLeaks and Anonymous.
While WikiLeaks and Anonymous have revealed several important issues, such as the behavior of some of our troops in Iraq, I worry about a lack of oversight. I am leery of any organization inserting itself into the American political system when there is no way to track who is involved and what is their agenda. At least with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, people who were worried about their articles could contact them or their editors. Whom do people talk to with these two organizations. This also is one of my concerns about Citizens United. Lack of transparency and the theft of information are major concerns of mine. I think it is legitimate to ask the people involved in WikiLeaks, Anonymous and the Citizens United groups who they are and to clearly state their goals and beliefs.
In many newspapers, there is an omsbudsman who is supposed to look at the practices of an organization. I think that WikiLeaks and Anonymous do need greater transparency. I also have to wonder about the wisdom of stealing information from others, as it may set up a never ending cycle. (I do respect whistle blowers and we need more of them. However, most whistle blowers try to work within a system to change it ) I think that the people behind WikiLeaks and Anonymous may well have good intentions, wishing to expose abuses that they see, but the road to Hell is said to be paved with good intentions.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 16:30:52
TriSec on 10/11/2012 16:30:52
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 16:40:12
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 16:40:12
I'm kinda disappointed I won't get to see the debate tonight - holiday kickoff meeting instead - oh well.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 16:40:47
Willm this is what I have been concerned with when it comes to WikiLeaks for a long time. You mentioned the pentagon papers, and I specifically spoke of this very issue almost 2 years ago. I remember at the time, It was not a popular position to take, but in light of what is happening now, I'm glad I trusted my instincts to write the things I have written.
Raine on 10/11/2012 16:40:47
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Raine, your post makes me ask a question posed in Latin by the poet Juvenal:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
This is often translated into English as "Who will guard the guards themselves?" or "Who watches the watchmen? As a former reporter, who realizes that leaked information can have a legitimate place in the realm of public discourse (the Pentagon Papers and Watergate come to mind as iconic examples of the usefulness of such information), I have some concerns over the actions of WikiLeaks and Anonymous.
While WikiLeaks and Anonymous have revealed several important issues, such as the behavior of some of our troops in Iraq, I worry about a lack of oversight. I am leery of any organization inserting itself into the American political system when there is no way to track who is involved and what is their agenda. At least with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, people who were worried about their articles could contact them or their editors. Whom do people talk to with these two organizations. This also is one of my concerns about Citizens United. Lack of transparency and the theft of information are major concerns of mine. I think it is legitimate to ask the people involved in WikiLeaks, Anonymous and the Citizens United groups who they are and to clearly state their goals and beliefs.
In many newspapers, there is an omsbudsman who is supposed to look at the practices of an organization. I think that WikiLeaks and Anonymous do need greater transparency. I also have to wonder about the wisdom of stealing information from others, as it may set up a never ending cycle. (I do respect whistle blowers and we need more of them. However, most whistle blowers try to work within a system to change it ) I think that the people behind WikiLeaks and Anonymous may well have good intentions, wishing to expose abuses that they see, but the road to Hell is said to be paved with good intentions.
Comment by livingonli on 10/11/2012 16:41:30
Working the Knicks game tonight won't allow me to see it either.
livingonli on 10/11/2012 16:41:30
Quote by wickedpam:
I'm kinda disappointed I won't get to see the debate tonight - holiday kickoff meeting instead - oh well.
Working the Knicks game tonight won't allow me to see it either.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:51:45
Raine, I have to worry about any group that does not identify its leadership and goals inserts itself into the public discourse. This often has not gone well.
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 16:51:45
Quote by Raine:Willm this is what I have been concerned with when it comes to WikiLeaks for a long time. You mentioned the pentagon papers, and I specifically spoke of this very issue almost 2 years ago. I remember at the time, It was not a popular position to take, but in light of what is happening now, I'm glad I trusted my instincts to write the things I have written.Quote by Will in Chicago:
Raine, your post makes me ask a question posed in Latin by the poet Juvenal:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
This is often translated into English as "Who will guard the guards themselves?" or "Who watches the watchmen? As a former reporter, who realizes that leaked information can have a legitimate place in the realm of public discourse (the Pentagon Papers and Watergate come to mind as iconic examples of the usefulness of such information), I have some concerns over the actions of WikiLeaks and Anonymous.
While WikiLeaks and Anonymous have revealed several important issues, such as the behavior of some of our troops in Iraq, I worry about a lack of oversight. I am leery of any organization inserting itself into the American political system when there is no way to track who is involved and what is their agenda. At least with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, people who were worried about their articles could contact them or their editors. Whom do people talk to with these two organizations. This also is one of my concerns about Citizens United. Lack of transparency and the theft of information are major concerns of mine. I think it is legitimate to ask the people involved in WikiLeaks, Anonymous and the Citizens United groups who they are and to clearly state their goals and beliefs.
In many newspapers, there is an omsbudsman who is supposed to look at the practices of an organization. I think that WikiLeaks and Anonymous do need greater transparency. I also have to wonder about the wisdom of stealing information from others, as it may set up a never ending cycle. (I do respect whistle blowers and we need more of them. However, most whistle blowers try to work within a system to change it ) I think that the people behind WikiLeaks and Anonymous may well have good intentions, wishing to expose abuses that they see, but the road to Hell is said to be paved with good intentions.
Raine, I have to worry about any group that does not identify its leadership and goals inserts itself into the public discourse. This often has not gone well.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 17:03:32
The typical American cares more about Honey Poo Poo (or whatever name it goes by), American I-dumb, and the actions of the latest Hollywood-whore. They might get slightly riled up if their favorite armored wankball team was gypped by lingerie-league-reject refs.
As I've said before, the three participants in the first "debate" performed according to their bosses wishes. Those expecting the little Munster boy to get clobbered tonight should keep that in mind.
But hey, I never thought that Wal-Mart employees in multiple stores would actually threaten to strike on Black Friday. So maybe there is hope.
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 17:03:32
Quote by TriSec:
I grow more alarmed with Nate's numbers...
The typical American cares more about Honey Poo Poo (or whatever name it goes by), American I-dumb, and the actions of the latest Hollywood-whore. They might get slightly riled up if their favorite armored wankball team was gypped by lingerie-league-reject refs.
As I've said before, the three participants in the first "debate" performed according to their bosses wishes. Those expecting the little Munster boy to get clobbered tonight should keep that in mind.
But hey, I never thought that Wal-Mart employees in multiple stores would actually threaten to strike on Black Friday. So maybe there is hope.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 17:11:18
TriSec on 10/11/2012 17:11:18
This is not the first time Framingham pharmacy killed someone...
Raine? Upstate NY - patient by the name of Koch.
(can't copy the article - Macrohard doesn't like CBS Boston.)
Raine? Upstate NY - patient by the name of Koch.
(can't copy the article - Macrohard doesn't like CBS Boston.)
Comment by Scoopster on 10/11/2012 17:22:00
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 17:22:00
Well now this is an interesting development.. I'm getting my drivers' license back! Not 100% sure if I can swing the fees to do it this month, but I'll DEFINITELY have it done in time for Thanksgiving!
Comment by livingonli on 10/11/2012 17:32:10
livingonli on 10/11/2012 17:32:10
I noticed that Shane-O is doing the Thom Hartmann "Behind the News" bits in his absence.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 17:46:50
EEPS! No relation that I am aware of. That's Rochester area. --It 's really disturbing that this company seemed to be aware of tainted medicine almost 8 years ago.
Raine on 10/11/2012 17:46:50
Quote by TriSec:
This is not the first time Framingham pharmacy killed someone...
Raine? Upstate NY - patient by the name of Koch.
(can't copy the article - Macrohard doesn't like CBS Boston.)
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 17:48:17
It's not starting until 9 pm -- that bites that you'll be getting home so late.
Raine on 10/11/2012 17:48:17
Quote by wickedpam:
I'm kinda disappointed I won't get to see the debate tonight - holiday kickoff meeting instead - oh well.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/11/2012 18:06:02
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 18:06:02
Ewwww.. he looks like Fred Durst.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 18:07:10
Scoop, were you a bad boy?
TriSec on 10/11/2012 18:07:10
Quote by Scoopster:
Well now this is an interesting development.. I'm getting my drivers' license back! Not 100% sure if I can swing the fees to do it this month, but I'll DEFINITELY have it done in time for Thanksgiving!
Scoop, were you a bad boy?
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 18:07:12
might be able to catch the tail end of it just depends
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 18:07:12
Quote by Raine:It's not starting until 9 pm -- that bites that you'll be getting home so late.Quote by wickedpam:
I'm kinda disappointed I won't get to see the debate tonight - holiday kickoff meeting instead - oh well.
might be able to catch the tail end of it just depends
Comment by wickedpam on 10/11/2012 18:09:56
a toothless Fred Durst
wickedpam on 10/11/2012 18:09:56
Quote by Scoopster:
Ewwww.. he looks like Fred Durst.
a toothless Fred Durst
Comment by Scoopster on 10/11/2012 18:10:21
I was in a former life, although my reason for giving up my license was related more to quitting big oil.. In fact I thought I had taken care of all this crap before I had moved to RI TEN YEARS AGO but apparently not.
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 18:10:21
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Scoopster:
Well now this is an interesting development.. I'm getting my drivers' license back! Not 100% sure if I can swing the fees to do it this month, but I'll DEFINITELY have it done in time for Thanksgiving!
Scoop, were you a bad boy?
I was in a former life, although my reason for giving up my license was related more to quitting big oil.. In fact I thought I had taken care of all this crap before I had moved to RI TEN YEARS AGO but apparently not.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 18:14:17
Raine on 10/11/2012 18:14:17
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 18:17:20
And tatless Fred Durst at that. (Slowly I turned...etc. I dislike Limp Bizkit even more than I dislike Skynnyrd, man).
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 18:17:20
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:
Ewwww.. he looks like Fred Durst.
a toothless Fred Durst
And tatless Fred Durst at that. (Slowly I turned...etc. I dislike Limp Bizkit even more than I dislike Skynnyrd, man).
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 18:22:58
Raine on 10/11/2012 18:22:58
Jeez, he looks kinda dopey....
Comment by livingonli on 10/11/2012 18:23:00
If you see the footage of him at Woodstock '99, he shows himself to be a total dick and many of the rapes that happened at Woodstock '99 may have happened during his performance.
livingonli on 10/11/2012 18:23:00
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:
Ewwww.. he looks like Fred Durst.
a toothless Fred Durst
And tatless Fred Durst at that. (Slowly I turned...etc. I dislike Limp Bizkit even more than I dislike Skynnyrd, man).
If you see the footage of him at Woodstock '99, he shows himself to be a total dick and many of the rapes that happened at Woodstock '99 may have happened during his performance.
Comment by BobR on 10/11/2012 18:55:31
BobR on 10/11/2012 18:55:31
Dat Ryan iz prezidenchul material, yo...
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 18:56:21
TriSec on 10/11/2012 18:56:21
You know, just once I'd like to see an idiot step off the sidewalk in Downtown Worcester without looking and get avulsed by a city bus.
Asshats.
Asshats.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 18:56:29
Raine on 10/11/2012 18:56:29
This is a totally flucked up story. In the desire to embarass the President and the State Department, the GOP blew the CIA's cover -- all on C-span
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:03:21
What do you mean show himself. He is a total dick. He wrote a song called "About the Nooky"
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:03:21
Quote by livingonli:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:
Ewwww.. he looks like Fred Durst.
a toothless Fred Durst
And tatless Fred Durst at that. (Slowly I turned...etc. I dislike Limp Bizkit even more than I dislike Skynnyrd, man).
If you see the footage of him at Woodstock '99, he shows himself to be a total dick and many of the rapes that happened at Woodstock '99 may have happened during his performance.
What do you mean show himself. He is a total dick. He wrote a song called "About the Nooky"
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:06:29
WORD! :flashes 4F gang sign: :trips on baggy jeans: Ow? Mindy? Fainter! oww...
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:06:29
Quote by BobR:
Dat Ryan iz prezidenchul material, yo...
WORD! :flashes 4F gang sign: :trips on baggy jeans: Ow? Mindy? Fainter! oww...
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:16:35
Tri, see this is the stuff that is going make Douchebag's numbers drop.
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:16:35
Quote by Raine:
This is a totally flucked up story. In the desire to embarass the President and the State Department, the GOP blew the CIA's cover -- all on C-span
Tri, see this is the stuff that is going make Douchebag's numbers drop.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/11/2012 19:19:53
Scoopster on 10/11/2012 19:19:53
GODDAMNIT!! The fucking DMV told me I HAVE TO RE-TEST FOR A LICENSE. Not because it's been a decade since I had one, not because I'm transferring it from out-of-state.. "because you got a state issued ID card instead of a license"
Excuse me whilst I rage about the overburden of government regulation.
Excuse me whilst I rage about the overburden of government regulation.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 19:25:28
Not to the typical American that believes the Ambassador was dragged through the streets and raped.
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 19:25:28
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
This is a totally flucked up story. In the desire to embarass the President and the State Department, the GOP blew the CIA's cover -- all on C-span
Tri, see this is the stuff that is going make Douchebag's numbers drop.
Not to the typical American that believes the Ambassador was dragged through the streets and raped.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:27:36
:coughpattyandselmacough:
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:27:36
Quote by Scoopster:
GODDAMNIT!! The fucking DMV told me I HAVE TO RE-TEST FOR A LICENSE. Not because it's been a decade since I had one, not because I'm transferring it from out-of-state.. "because you got a state issued ID card instead of a license"
Excuse me whilst I rage about the overburden of government regulation.
:coughpattyandselmacough:
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 19:35:48
So I'm guessing there were more than two witnesses as specified in the Constitution. Treason, anyone?
TriSec on 10/11/2012 19:35:48
Quote by Raine:
This is a totally flucked up story. In the desire to embarass the President and the State Department, the GOP blew the CIA's cover -- all on C-span
So I'm guessing there were more than two witnesses as specified in the Constitution. Treason, anyone?
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:37:06
Remember that Chafitz and Issa have one brain between them. That asshole Chafitz was waiving the bloody 9-11 shirt in a sound bit the other day. Forgot to call his office and call him a cum stain.
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 19:37:06
Quote by trojanrabbit:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
This is a totally flucked up story. In the desire to embarass the President and the State Department, the GOP blew the CIA's cover -- all on C-span
Tri, see this is the stuff that is going make Douchebag's numbers drop.
Not to the typical American that believes the Ambassador was dragged through the streets and raped.
Remember that Chafitz and Issa have one brain between them. That asshole Chafitz was waiving the bloody 9-11 shirt in a sound bit the other day. Forgot to call his office and call him a cum stain.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 19:38:53
That is what I was thinking myself.
Raine on 10/11/2012 19:38:53
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
This is a totally flucked up story. In the desire to embarass the President and the State Department, the GOP blew the CIA's cover -- all on C-span
So I'm guessing there were more than two witnesses as specified in the Constitution. Treason, anyone?
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 19:42:06
Raine on 10/11/2012 19:42:06
This is Mitt Romney, folks.
Tried to make a woman not get a lifesaving Abortion and then tried to force a family friend to give her very white bastard son up for adoption -- to the Mormon church, of course -- but figured it was fine for her to keep her mulatta baby girl..
What a shitty crappyman. thing.
Tried to make a woman not get a lifesaving Abortion and then tried to force a family friend to give her very white bastard son up for adoption -- to the Mormon church, of course -- but figured it was fine for her to keep her mulatta baby girl..
What a shitty crappy
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 19:47:11
HERE is the entire original article. I am sick to my stomach.
Raine on 10/11/2012 19:47:11
Quote by Raine:
This is Mitt Romney, folks.
Tried to make a woman not get a lifesaving Abortion and then tried to force a family friend to give her very white bastard son up for adoption -- to the Mormon church, of course -- but figured it was fine for her to keep her mulatta baby girl..
What a shitty crappyman.thing.
Comment by livingonli on 10/11/2012 19:54:44
livingonli on 10/11/2012 19:54:44
The consensus should be that Romney is an insensitive dick.
Comment by TriSec on 10/11/2012 19:55:05
TriSec on 10/11/2012 19:55:05
This is why Mormonism is my last prejudice.
When I hear someone is a Mormon, I think Idiot, Tool, or worse. This story only reinforces my opinion.
When I hear someone is a Mormon, I think Idiot, Tool, or worse. This story only reinforces my opinion.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 20:00:55
IF you can, REad the original article -- There is far more information there. Ms. Duchko is a very surprising woman in the LDS church. She actually reminds me of the nuns on the bus.
Raine on 10/11/2012 20:00:55
Quote by TriSec:
This is why Mormonism is my last prejudice.
When I hear someone is a Mormon, I think Idiot, Tool, or worse. This story only reinforces my opinion.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 20:08:18
Raine on 10/11/2012 20:08:18
Quote by Raine:HERE is the entire original article. I am sick to my stomach.Quote by Raine:
This is Mitt Romney, folks.
Tried to make a woman not get a lifesaving Abortion and then tried to force a family friend to give her very white bastard son up for adoption -- to the Mormon church, of course -- but figured it was fine for her to keep her mulatta baby girl..
What a shitty crappyman.thing.
According to Hayes, Romney called her directly in 1994 when the story was about to break and asked her if she'd be willing to talk. Her son was about 10 at the time. She says that they spoke for about "an hour and a half." Romney, she said, "never got her name right once" in the entire conversation.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 20:12:19
Raine on 10/11/2012 20:12:19
Earlier this year, Dushku's daughter, the actress Eliza Dushku (of television's Buffy the Vampire Slayer fame), got cornered at a benefit dinner by a reporter for New York Magazine and was queried about her family relationship with the Romneys.
"I mean, he went from being my first crush at 6 years old," Eliza Dushku recalled, "and then when I was old enough to hear what was coming out of his mouth, it was over. I'm sure he's a nice guy. I knew him to be a nice person, to those around him. He had five sons that I knew, that my brothers would play with growing up, and they were kind to others. But what they stand for I don't find to be tolerant or just."
The resulting headline declared, of course, "Eliza Dushku Recalls Her Childhood Crush on Mitt Romney"—and her more critical position about tolerance and justice was buried beneath the focus on the "crush."
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 20:24:55
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 20:24:55
Romney seems to have minimal social skills with those outside of his social class. However, I wonder if the stories we are discussing here will reach the larger public.
Today would have been my Dad's 78th birthday. So, I am a bit down today.
Today would have been my Dad's 78th birthday. So, I am a bit down today.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 20:34:10
Oh, Will. I'm sorry.
I believe that if stories like this are put out on Social MEdia they will reach a larger audience. At least people are writing them.
Raine on 10/11/2012 20:34:10
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Romney seems to have minimal social skills with those outside of his social class. However, I wonder if the stories we are discussing here will reach the larger public.
Today would have been my Dad's 78th birthday. So, I am a bit down today.
I believe that if stories like this are put out on Social MEdia they will reach a larger audience. At least people are writing them.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 20:36:09
Raine on 10/11/2012 20:36:09
This is a Story for TriSec
The Boy Scout who was refused an Eagle Medal because he dared to come out to friends and family as gay will be getting the awards — but not from the antigay organization.
The New York Daily News reports that Dr. Andrew Zerbinopolous saw the story of 17-year-old Ryan Andresen and sent him his Eagle Medal.
“If I can make him feel like he has some support out there, it’s worth it to me to send him a piece of metal,†said Zerbinopolous, according to First Coast News.
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 20:43:12
And I'm not sure if you need a new Dentist, Mondo -- But Dr. Zerbinopolous lives in your city!
Raine on 10/11/2012 20:43:12
Quote by Raine:
This is a Story for TriSecThe Boy Scout who was refused an Eagle Medal because he dared to come out to friends and family as gay will be getting the awards — but not from the antigay organization.
The New York Daily News reports that Dr. Andrew Zerbinopolous saw the story of 17-year-old Ryan Andresen and sent him his Eagle Medal.
“If I can make him feel like he has some support out there, it’s worth it to me to send him a piece of metal,†said Zerbinopolous, according to First Coast News.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 20:51:17
There are some very progressive women in the Mormans. Remeber there was a woman excommunicated from LDS for being pro ERA. When the LDS was founded and up through the progressive era, they were very forward thinking.
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 20:51:17
Quote by Raine:IF you can, REad the original article -- There is far more information there. Ms. Duchko is a very surprising woman in the LDS church. She actually reminds me of the nuns on the bus.Quote by TriSec:
This is why Mormonism is my last prejudice.
When I hear someone is a Mormon, I think Idiot, Tool, or worse. This story only reinforces my opinion.
There are some very progressive women in the Mormans. Remeber there was a woman excommunicated from LDS for being pro ERA. When the LDS was founded and up through the progressive era, they were very forward thinking.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 20:52:00
It does help that this is shared on social media. However, I have long ago concluded that some people will not care what facts we present as it counters their world view.
I am going to try to relax before the debate. With my sister-in-law's health problems, my Dad's birthday, and the anniversary of my dog's death tomorrow, I am a bit worn out.
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 20:52:00
Quote by Raine:Oh, Will. I'm sorry.Quote by Will in Chicago:
Romney seems to have minimal social skills with those outside of his social class. However, I wonder if the stories we are discussing here will reach the larger public.
Today would have been my Dad's 78th birthday. So, I am a bit down today.
I believe that if stories like this are put out on Social MEdia they will reach a larger audience. At least people are writing them.
It does help that this is shared on social media. However, I have long ago concluded that some people will not care what facts we present as it counters their world view.
I am going to try to relax before the debate. With my sister-in-law's health problems, my Dad's birthday, and the anniversary of my dog's death tomorrow, I am a bit worn out.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 20:52:15
Mondo has a new dentist!
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 20:52:15
Quote by Raine:And I'm not sure if you need a new Dentist, Mondo -- But Dr. Zerbinopolous lives in your city!Quote by Raine:
This is a Story for TriSecThe Boy Scout who was refused an Eagle Medal because he dared to come out to friends and family as gay will be getting the awards — but not from the antigay organization.
The New York Daily News reports that Dr. Andrew Zerbinopolous saw the story of 17-year-old Ryan Andresen and sent him his Eagle Medal.
“If I can make him feel like he has some support out there, it’s worth it to me to send him a piece of metal,†said Zerbinopolous, according to First Coast News.
Mondo has a new dentist!
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 21:06:02
Raine on 10/11/2012 21:06:02
I'm watching HArdball... one kid has a sign that says *Joe Biden hates Puppies* and I couldn't help but laugh...
But even better, another kid has a sign that says:
Chris Matthews listens to Nickleback
But even better, another kid has a sign that says:
Comment by Raine on 10/11/2012 21:06:53
Sounds like you need a well deserved night of taking care of yourself, Will.
SAme with you Mondo.
Raine on 10/11/2012 21:06:53
Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by Raine:Oh, Will. I'm sorry.Quote by Will in Chicago:
Romney seems to have minimal social skills with those outside of his social class. However, I wonder if the stories we are discussing here will reach the larger public.
Today would have been my Dad's 78th birthday. So, I am a bit down today.
I believe that if stories like this are put out on Social MEdia they will reach a larger audience. At least people are writing them.
It does help that this is shared on social media. However, I have long ago concluded that some people will not care what facts we present as it counters their world view.
I am going to try to relax before the debate. With my sister-in-law's health problems, my Dad's birthday, and the anniversary of my dog's death tomorrow, I am a bit worn out.
SAme with you Mondo.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 21:19:08
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 21:19:08
Raine, thanks for the kind words.
I am going to try to relax before the debate. I expect a good performance from Joe Biden.
Talking Points Memo has some good news for Democrats worried about the polls.
I am going to try to relax before the debate. I expect a good performance from Joe Biden.
Talking Points Memo has some good news for Democrats worried about the polls.
New Polls Suggest Democratic Freakout May Be Premature
Benjy Sarlin October 11, 2012, 11:48 AM
While Mitt Romney clearly did some damage in the debate, a raft of swing state polls from major news outlets Thursday indicate President Obama may have put a floor on his drop.
Nervous Democrats told TPM earlier in the week that they were eagerly anticipating state results from the major national pollsters before deciding whether Romney had taken the lead in the race outright — suggesting a full-fledged freakout on the left could start as early as today.
While there’s been an array of state and national numbers over the last few days, two sets of polls from NBC/WSJ/Marist and CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac represent some of the first results from top outlets that polling analysts tend to lend the most credibility. And the numbers, while improved for Romney, still show Obama with an advantage in key states.
Most important: Ohio, a likely must-win for Romney where Obama has held a solid lead in recent weeks. NBC/WSJ pegs the race at 51-45 for Obama, a 2-point bounce for Romney since their last poll with the president’s own support remaining steady. It’s the second post-debate poll of Ohio from a major news organization to show Obama breaking the 50 percent barrier — CNN put him up 51-47.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 21:19:49
I'm thinkin' that (insert name here) likes Nickleback is a meme!
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 21:19:49
Quote by Raine:
I'm watching HArdball... one kid has a sign that says *Joe Biden hates Puppies* and I couldn't help but laugh...
But even better, another kid has a sign that says:Chris Matthews listens to Nickleback
I'm thinkin' that (insert name here) likes Nickleback is a meme!
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 21:20:21
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 21:20:21
Quote by Raine:
I'm watching HArdball... one kid has a sign that says *Joe Biden hates Puppies* and I couldn't help but laugh...
But even better, another kid has a sign that says:Chris Matthews listens to Nickleback
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 22:11:10
Mondobubba on 10/11/2012 22:11:10
I can't go home and pet a kitteh! 
Comment by livingonli on 10/11/2012 22:21:30
I'm going to miss the cat in my house when I move since she's going with my roomie to the Carolinas. Actually, she got a little anxious when I was about to leave today. My roomie is looking at places in North Carolina this week so I am taking care of the cat and she's been around me most of the time when I am home.
livingonli on 10/11/2012 22:21:30
Quote by Mondobubba:
I can't go home and pet a kitteh!
I'm going to miss the cat in my house when I move since she's going with my roomie to the Carolinas. Actually, she got a little anxious when I was about to leave today. My roomie is looking at places in North Carolina this week so I am taking care of the cat and she's been around me most of the time when I am home.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 23:08:24
I think we're all being played for fools. Bouncey bouncey bouncey...
Took Lucky's cone off for a bit while he ate breakfast and noticed that the hot spot on his neck appears to be healing a bit. Maybe the new "no cereal" dry food is helping. Think I almost strangled the poor bugger trying to get the cone back on. My fingers have not been co-operating, my eyes neither. He'll come begging for treats like he used to.
I'm not sure what the order of questions is tonight, but I'm pretty sure Eddie will steer it towards Libya. It's the Rethugs new chew toy.
trojanrabbit on 10/11/2012 23:08:24
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Raine, thanks for the kind words.
I am going to try to relax before the debate. I expect a good performance from Joe Biden.
Talking Points Memo has some good news for Democrats worried about the polls.New Polls Suggest Democratic Freakout May Be Premature
Benjy Sarlin October 11, 2012, 11:48 AM
While Mitt Romney clearly did some damage in the debate, a raft of swing state polls from major news outlets Thursday indicate President Obama may have put a floor on his drop.
Nervous Democrats told TPM earlier in the week that they were eagerly anticipating state results from the major national pollsters before deciding whether Romney had taken the lead in the race outright — suggesting a full-fledged freakout on the left could start as early as today.
While there’s been an array of state and national numbers over the last few days, two sets of polls from NBC/WSJ/Marist and CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac represent some of the first results from top outlets that polling analysts tend to lend the most credibility. And the numbers, while improved for Romney, still show Obama with an advantage in key states.
Most important: Ohio, a likely must-win for Romney where Obama has held a solid lead in recent weeks. NBC/WSJ pegs the race at 51-45 for Obama, a 2-point bounce for Romney since their last poll with the president’s own support remaining steady. It’s the second post-debate poll of Ohio from a major news organization to show Obama breaking the 50 percent barrier — CNN put him up 51-47.
I think we're all being played for fools. Bouncey bouncey bouncey...
Took Lucky's cone off for a bit while he ate breakfast and noticed that the hot spot on his neck appears to be healing a bit. Maybe the new "no cereal" dry food is helping. Think I almost strangled the poor bugger trying to get the cone back on. My fingers have not been co-operating, my eyes neither. He'll come begging for treats like he used to.
I'm not sure what the order of questions is tonight, but I'm pretty sure Eddie will steer it towards Libya. It's the Rethugs new chew toy.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 23:22:37
It helps to have an animal around. My sister-in-law's cat has been very friendly to me and my dog's canine pals still great me warmly.
Will in Chicago on 10/11/2012 23:22:37
Quote by livingonli:Quote by Mondobubba:
I can't go home and pet a kitteh!
I'm going to miss the cat in my house when I move since she's going with my roomie to the Carolinas. Actually, she got a little anxious when I was about to leave today. My roomie is looking at places in North Carolina this week so I am taking care of the cat and she's been around me most of the time when I am home.
It helps to have an animal around. My sister-in-law's cat has been very friendly to me and my dog's canine pals still great me warmly.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 00:55:09
Raine on 10/12/2012 00:55:09
Mondo and Will, I'd like to believe that your furkids are up somewhere messing with my Camille. IT's been a year as well.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 01:00:01
Raine on 10/12/2012 01:00:01
LEss than a minute!
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:00:38
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:00:38
Raine, I hope so. Holly actually got along well with most cats.
We are ready to begin the debate. I hope that Biden brings his A game.
We are ready to begin the debate. I hope that Biden brings his A game.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 01:07:26
Raine on 10/12/2012 01:07:26
I'm already loving Joe's smile.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:10:03
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:10:03
Biden is responding to Ryan and is responding to him well.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 01:13:29
Raine on 10/12/2012 01:13:29
Paul Ryan is losing simply based on the faces Joe Biden is making.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 01:14:21
Maybe she could Biden talk.
Raine on 10/12/2012 01:14:21
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Biden is responding to Ryan and is responding to him well.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:18:28
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:18:28
Ryan seems to be smirking, and Biden seems ready to laugh.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 01:19:32
Raine on 10/12/2012 01:19:32
JOE Just stepped in and has something to say. 
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 01:23:48
Raine on 10/12/2012 01:23:48
With all Due respect Martha Radditz is interjecting herself too much into this is a #VPDebate. This is a debate, not an interview.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:28:24
It is preferable to Jim Lehrer, but she needs to step back.
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:28:24
Quote by Raine:
With all Due respect Martha Radditz is interjecting herself too much into this is a #VPDebate. This is a debate, not an interview.
It is preferable to Jim Lehrer, but she needs to step back.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 01:32:48
Raine on 10/12/2012 01:32:48
I think Ryan is starting to lose it.
Comment by BobR on 10/12/2012 01:32:57
BobR on 10/12/2012 01:32:57
FIRETRUCK!!!
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:33:11
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:33:11
Biden hitting Ryan on the stimulus applicatiosn.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:36:11
I would like to suggest a new place to put a firetruck, but CONGRESSMAN Ryan would have a little difficulty sitting down.
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:36:11
Quote by BobR:
FIRETRUCK!!!
I would like to suggest a new place to put a firetruck, but CONGRESSMAN Ryan would have a little difficulty sitting down.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 01:38:19
Raine on 10/12/2012 01:38:19
Joe looks RIGHT at the CAmera to the American People.
Ryan has not done that once.
Oh, and Watch ryan get redder and redder...
Ryan has not done that once.
Oh, and Watch ryan get redder and redder...
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:42:19
Ryan seems flustered.
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:42:19
Quote by Raine:
Joe looks RIGHT at the CAmera to the American People.
Ryan has not done that once.
Oh, and Watch ryan get redder and redder...
Ryan seems flustered.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:47:13
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:47:13
Biden seems to be having Ryan for dinner and I suspect that Romney is having TUMS and Rolaids tonight.
Comment by TriSec on 10/12/2012 01:50:41
TriSec on 10/12/2012 01:50:41
Hi gang...just getting back from the store.
Listened to a bit of this old school - terrestrial radio.
Joe seems to be kicking ass.
Listened to a bit of this old school - terrestrial radio.
Joe seems to be kicking ass.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:54:38
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 01:54:38
TriSec, I hope that all is well.
Yes, I think that Biden is beating Ryan easily.
Yes, I think that Biden is beating Ryan easily.
Comment by TriSec on 10/12/2012 01:54:58
The hell of it is, that Scout could transfer to any one of the 38 councils nationwide with non-discrimination policies and get his award today.
TriSec on 10/12/2012 01:54:58
Quote by Raine:
This is a Story for TriSec
The hell of it is, that Scout could transfer to any one of the 38 councils nationwide with non-discrimination policies and get his award today.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 02:07:35
Raine on 10/12/2012 02:07:35
I love how Ryan is trying to expain to Joe Biden, Foreign policy expert AND MArtha Radditz FOREIGN corresponding and how weather works in afghanistan.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 02:31:24
Raine on 10/12/2012 02:31:24
Tell you what: I am looking forwards to seeing the amount of time that Joe got compared to that POS little arrogant fillibustering twit.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 02:36:15
I was wondering that as well, What if your council did that?
Raine on 10/12/2012 02:36:15
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
This is a Story for TriSec
The hell of it is, that Scout could transfer to any one of the 38 councils nationwide with non-discrimination policies and get his award today.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 02:40:44
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 02:40:44
To paraphrase Bill Murray, Biden came, saw and kicked ass!!
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 02:55:52
Raine on 10/12/2012 02:55:52
Comment by Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 03:02:41
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 03:02:41
Think Progress live blogged the debate and had some examination of the facts. Here are a few:
10:31 pm
Ryan's budget guts social programs for lower-income Americans
Share
Biden just brought up the fact that Ryan’s budget really hurts low-income people. Sixty two percent of the cuts are from programs that benefit low-income people.
10:27 pm
Catholic leaders have denounced Ryan's policies
Share
Ryan’s policies have been widely criticized by Catholic scholars, nuns, and bishops. The Nuns on the Bus, who have traveled around the country to advocate for economic justice, have denounced Ryan’s budget as “immoral and unjustifiable†because it “will be putting the burden on the poor.â€
10:26 pm
Ryan says 'unelected judges' should not set our abortion policy
Share
But he wants five unelected justices to set our health care policy. And he gave a speech last year suggesting that unelected judges should impose “limited government, low taxes, [and] sound money†upon the country, regardless of what our elected officials enact. The Constitution says nothing about judges setting economy policy — it say that choice belongs to the people’s elected representatives.
10:23 pm
Ryan co-sponsored 'personhood' amendment
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While Joe Biden said the Catholic Church believes that life begins at conception, the Vice President said he would not impose that value on anyone else. But Ryan co-sponsored a radical “personhood†amendment that endows a fertilized egg with “all the legal and constitutional attributes and privileges of personhood.†This type of legislation would outlaw abortion, invitro fertilization, and some forms of contraception.
10:22 pm
Something you should know about Ryan's record on abortion
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Before Rep. Todd Akin (R-MO) infamously said that women cannot get pregnant from “legitimate rape,†Ryan worked with him to try to narrow the definition of rape. Ryan has teamed up with Akin to co-sponsor eight anti-choice bills to limit women’s reproductive freedom:
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 10:16:03
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 10:16:03
Looks like you guys had one helluva shindig last night! I ended up kinda passing out early while watching the Yanks-O's game and missed the whole debate! 
Anyways, I just got a bit of a brain flash for a bloggie.. and I assure you it's gonna be a good one.
Anyways, I just got a bit of a brain flash for a bloggie.. and I assure you it's gonna be a good one.
Comment by BobR on 10/12/2012 12:37:01
Go for it! - Work is hitting me early
BobR on 10/12/2012 12:37:01
Quote by Scoopster:
Looks like you guys had one helluva shindig last night! I ended up kinda passing out early while watching the Yanks-O's game and missed the whole debate!
Anyways, I just got a bit of a brain flash for a bloggie.. and I assure you it's gonna be a good one.
Go for it! - Work is hitting me early