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A Revolution for Sanity
Author: BobR
Date: 01/11/2013 14:02:37
It happened again: another school, another shooting... This time it was much smaller and apparently no one was killed. A student at Taft High School in CA went after his classmates with a shotgun. Besides the impact on the students, it put to rest two "truisms" being promoted by gun advocates. The first one is that armed guards are required to prevent these things at school. It turns out that the school did indeed have an armed guard (watch the gun nuts go after him as being incompetent). The second is that only a good person with a gun can stop a bad person with a gun. In this case, it was a teacher and a school supervisor who simply talked him into surrenduring.
Would any of the proposed gun bans currently being considered have prevented this? Probably not (unless harsher penalties are imposed on parents for not securing their firearms so their kids can't get them). The problem in this case seems to have stemmed from bullying. There's not enough information available yet to know how this was managed by the school, but it was bad enough for the boy to create a "hit list", which got him previously suspended from school. This seems like a red flag, and we'll likely find out that this was poorly handled. Children being bullied, marginalized, and shunned will incur psychological damage, and the schools need to do a better job recognizing it happening and dealing with it.
NRA President Wayne LaPierre mentioned mental health in his don't-blame-the-guns explanation of why guns aren't related to gun violence, but I don't think he mentioned bullying, which has come under scrutiny before. He also mentioned violent video games and movies, another laughable scapegoat. How many millions of people in the U.S. watch violent movies or play violent video games and don't kill people? I'd even venture that for some it's a cathartic release which prevents actual violence (The Daily Show explores this in more detail).
It's kind of funny, really. During President Obama's first term, the paranoid gun owners were exclaiming loudly that his doing nothing about gun control was PROOF that he was actually planning on pulling out all the stops in his second term. I found it quite laughable. And then - Sandy Hook happened. I think the reality of 5-7 year old children being mowed down in a hail of bullets while in school was the straw that broke the camel's back, not just for the president, but for most of America as well. We were constantly being told that a few gun deaths were the price we had to pay for our constitutional freedom. We have finally realized that the deaths of so many innocents is too high a price to pay for a small minority to enjoy their distored version of a constitutional amendment.
Since the gun "enthusiasts" were not going to regulate themselves, President Obama tasked Vice-President Joe Biden with creating a task force and coming up with regulations to help get the madness under control. Everyone assumed that assault weapons and large capacity magazines would be easy first targets. That may be a false assumption. Nonetheless, the NRA is already on the offensive against the task force and the president himself. While states like NY are enacting tougher laws than what the Executive branch is considering, other states (like WY) are trying to pre-emptively neuter any legislation.
Naturally, all of this has the idiots foaming at the mouth. Fox "News" legal analyst Judge Napolitano informs viewers that the 2nd Amendment protects "your right to shoot tyrants". This is the very definition of throwing gasoline on the fire. How many mentally unhinged viewers will take him at his word? He is essentially advocating for the assassination of the president. How is this legal?
Another group of "legal scholars" misinterpreting the text and history of the 2nd Amendment is the "Oath Keepers". They are the militia arm of conspiracy nut job Alex Jones' Prison Planet. They too are advocating for an armed revolution. They have forgotten the lessons of the Civil War, when our military was not nearly as strong nor well-equipped as they are now.
Ultimately, the real revolution may came via the pen rather than the sword. Americans have put up with the "my cold dead hands" nonsense long enough. The states' right to form a militia does not give every yahoo the right to blow shit up with a machine gun. Sorry, but our right to domestic tranquility overrides your self-perceived right to own whatever weapon you want.
Viva La Revolucion!
Would any of the proposed gun bans currently being considered have prevented this? Probably not (unless harsher penalties are imposed on parents for not securing their firearms so their kids can't get them). The problem in this case seems to have stemmed from bullying. There's not enough information available yet to know how this was managed by the school, but it was bad enough for the boy to create a "hit list", which got him previously suspended from school. This seems like a red flag, and we'll likely find out that this was poorly handled. Children being bullied, marginalized, and shunned will incur psychological damage, and the schools need to do a better job recognizing it happening and dealing with it.
NRA President Wayne LaPierre mentioned mental health in his don't-blame-the-guns explanation of why guns aren't related to gun violence, but I don't think he mentioned bullying, which has come under scrutiny before. He also mentioned violent video games and movies, another laughable scapegoat. How many millions of people in the U.S. watch violent movies or play violent video games and don't kill people? I'd even venture that for some it's a cathartic release which prevents actual violence (The Daily Show explores this in more detail).
It's kind of funny, really. During President Obama's first term, the paranoid gun owners were exclaiming loudly that his doing nothing about gun control was PROOF that he was actually planning on pulling out all the stops in his second term. I found it quite laughable. And then - Sandy Hook happened. I think the reality of 5-7 year old children being mowed down in a hail of bullets while in school was the straw that broke the camel's back, not just for the president, but for most of America as well. We were constantly being told that a few gun deaths were the price we had to pay for our constitutional freedom. We have finally realized that the deaths of so many innocents is too high a price to pay for a small minority to enjoy their distored version of a constitutional amendment.
Since the gun "enthusiasts" were not going to regulate themselves, President Obama tasked Vice-President Joe Biden with creating a task force and coming up with regulations to help get the madness under control. Everyone assumed that assault weapons and large capacity magazines would be easy first targets. That may be a false assumption. Nonetheless, the NRA is already on the offensive against the task force and the president himself. While states like NY are enacting tougher laws than what the Executive branch is considering, other states (like WY) are trying to pre-emptively neuter any legislation.
Naturally, all of this has the idiots foaming at the mouth. Fox "News" legal analyst Judge Napolitano informs viewers that the 2nd Amendment protects "your right to shoot tyrants". This is the very definition of throwing gasoline on the fire. How many mentally unhinged viewers will take him at his word? He is essentially advocating for the assassination of the president. How is this legal?
Another group of "legal scholars" misinterpreting the text and history of the 2nd Amendment is the "Oath Keepers". They are the militia arm of conspiracy nut job Alex Jones' Prison Planet. They too are advocating for an armed revolution. They have forgotten the lessons of the Civil War, when our military was not nearly as strong nor well-equipped as they are now.
Ultimately, the real revolution may came via the pen rather than the sword. Americans have put up with the "my cold dead hands" nonsense long enough. The states' right to form a militia does not give every yahoo the right to blow shit up with a machine gun. Sorry, but our right to domestic tranquility overrides your self-perceived right to own whatever weapon you want.
Viva La Revolucion!
Comments:
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Comment by 
TriSec on 01/11/2013 14:09:01
TriSec on 01/11/2013 14:09:01
Morning, gang.
Neuropathy is killing me this morning...I have boots on so I don't trip over my own feet today.
My car is going to be turning 100,000 on the way home today. (But that's young for a Subaru, plus I had the engine rebuilt 2 years ago, so no big whoop.)
Neuropathy is killing me this morning...I have boots on so I don't trip over my own feet today.
My car is going to be turning 100,000 on the way home today. (But that's young for a Subaru, plus I had the engine rebuilt 2 years ago, so no big whoop.)
Comment by 
Will in Chicago on 01/11/2013 14:09:25
Will in Chicago on 01/11/2013 14:09:25
Good morning, bloggers!! I hope that everyone is well.
I am preparing for my interview this morning. In the bad news, my great niece Emily Rose is still in the hospital with a respiratory infection.
Meanwhile, the gun culture still continues to have a hold on our nation. Boy, 13, arrested after bringing gun, ammo to school.
I am preparing for my interview this morning. In the bad news, my great niece Emily Rose is still in the hospital with a respiratory infection.
Meanwhile, the gun culture still continues to have a hold on our nation. Boy, 13, arrested after bringing gun, ammo to school.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 01/11/2013 14:11:07
trojanrabbit on 01/11/2013 14:11:07
Adjusting fine tuning.....done.
At last night's Casino/Karaoke party at work I regaled my co-workers with rather regrettable renditions of "Sweet Caroline" (I was dragged to the mike for that) and "The Lumberjack Song" (which for some reason I REQUESTED). The scariest thing about it was that it was not alcohol induced.
I did have one co-worker (Canadian, so maybe that explains it) say this morning that he would have voted for me for best song....if there were such a thing.
One good thing aboot laying off the spirits is that this morning I am pretty much fully functional, which I cannot say for some of my co-workers.
At last night's Casino/Karaoke party at work I regaled my co-workers with rather regrettable renditions of "Sweet Caroline" (I was dragged to the mike for that) and "The Lumberjack Song" (which for some reason I REQUESTED). The scariest thing about it was that it was not alcohol induced.
I did have one co-worker (Canadian, so maybe that explains it) say this morning that he would have voted for me for best song....if there were such a thing.
One good thing aboot laying off the spirits is that this morning I am pretty much fully functional, which I cannot say for some of my co-workers.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 01/11/2013 14:16:22
trojanrabbit on 01/11/2013 14:16:22
Thanks for the good words yesterday, Will.
Hope your great niece recovers quickly (with no relapse).
Hope your great niece recovers quickly (with no relapse).
Comment by 
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 14:16:29
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 14:16:29
Morning 
Comment by 
BobR on 01/11/2013 14:18:33
BobR on 01/11/2013 14:18:33
blog is posted! 
Comment by Will in Chicago on 01/11/2013 14:28:44
Will in Chicago on 01/11/2013 14:28:44
Thanks, Trojanrabbit, for the kind words.
Paul Krugman has some advice on the debt ceiling in his New York Times column today:
Maybe it is just time to work around the GOP in the same way that we might drive around a roadblock. A boulder may be more open to compromise than the Tea Party.
Paul Krugman has some advice on the debt ceiling in his New York Times column today:
Coins Against Crazies
Finally, just consider the vileness of that G.O.P. threat. If we were to hit the debt ceiling, the U.S. government would end up defaulting on many of its obligations. This would have disastrous effects on financial markets, the economy, and our standing in the world. Yet Republicans are threatening to trigger this disaster unless they get spending cuts that they weren’t able to enact through normal, Constitutional means.
Republicans go wild at this analogy, but it’s unavoidable. This is exactly like someone walking into a crowded room, announcing that he has a bomb strapped to his chest, and threatening to set that bomb off unless his demands are met.
Which brings us to the coin.
As it happens, an obscure legal clause grants the secretary of the Treasury the right to mint and issue platinum coins in any quantity or denomination he chooses. Such coins were, of course, intended to be collectors’ items, struck to commemorate special occasions. But the law is the law — and it offers a simple if strange way out of the crisis.
Maybe it is just time to work around the GOP in the same way that we might drive around a roadblock. A boulder may be more open to compromise than the Tea Party.
Comment by 
Raine on 01/11/2013 14:31:29
good morning!
Raine on 01/11/2013 14:31:29
good morning!
Comment by Will in Chicago on 01/11/2013 14:39:06
Will in Chicago on 01/11/2013 14:39:06
BobR, thanks for a great blog. I fear that the hard liners will not go down easy and we may have some idiot commit some acts of violent to live out their revolutionary fantasies.
There are limits on rights. One cannot shout "Fire!; in a crowded theater. Freedom of religion does not cover human sacrifice. Nor does the Second Amendment prevent the federal and state governments from imposing some limits on the ownership of guns and ammunition. I am waiting for Alex Jones or someone to declare the right to have rocket launchers for personal protection or hunting. (I wonder if they object to hunting licenses, as that is mandated by the government.)
There are limits on rights. One cannot shout "Fire!; in a crowded theater. Freedom of religion does not cover human sacrifice. Nor does the Second Amendment prevent the federal and state governments from imposing some limits on the ownership of guns and ammunition. I am waiting for Alex Jones or someone to declare the right to have rocket launchers for personal protection or hunting. (I wonder if they object to hunting licenses, as that is mandated by the government.)
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 14:55:56
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 14:55:56
*sigh* off to a 2 1/2 hour waste of time meeting - talk to everyone later
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 15:20:15
;( laterz Mala.
Raine on 01/11/2013 15:20:15
Quote by wickedpam:
*sigh* off to a 2 1/2 hour waste of time meeting - talk to everyone later
Comment by 
Scoopster on 01/11/2013 15:29:06
Scoopster on 01/11/2013 15:29:06
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee! 
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 15:32:33
Raine on 01/11/2013 15:32:33
SO glad he is the Attorney General of Virginia... not.
Virginia Attorney General Ken "The Cooch" Cuccinelli's job is to enforce the law, but when it comes to a new federal law mandating that employee health insurance plans include the morning-after pill and other emergency contraception, he's encouraging opponents to break the law and go to jail,
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 15:33:01
SCOOP! I love you energy today.
Raine on 01/11/2013 15:33:01
Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee!
SCOOP! I love you energy today.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 15:34:27
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 15:34:27
woo hoo! didn't have to sit in on the whole meeting! 
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 15:36:32
Sweet!
Raine on 01/11/2013 15:36:32
Quote by wickedpam:
woo hoo! didn't have to sit in on the whole meeting!
Sweet!
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 15:37:42
Yes! Meetings suck!
Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 15:37:42
Quote by wickedpam:
woo hoo! didn't have to sit in on the whole meeting!
Yes! Meetings suck!
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 15:43:40
Raine on 01/11/2013 15:43:40
I don't like the title of this article, but I am glad to see this was passed.
Obama grants himself lifetime Secret Service protection
This title is a little bit better.
Obama grants himself lifetime Secret Service protection
This title is a little bit better.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 15:44:23
Raine on 01/11/2013 15:44:23
I don't think we can ever get enough of this:
Comment by Scoopster on 01/11/2013 15:47:35
I feel MUCH better today.. The cold was gone a couple days ago, but this damn cough has lingered. Last night was the first night in a week when I was able to actually use my sleep mask without a damn coughing fit popping it off my face every ten minutes!
Scoopster on 01/11/2013 15:47:35
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee!
SCOOP! I love your energy today.
I feel MUCH better today.. The cold was gone a couple days ago, but this damn cough has lingered. Last night was the first night in a week when I was able to actually use my sleep mask without a damn coughing fit popping it off my face every ten minutes!
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 15:54:47
the cough is horrible, it lingers and lingers and its finally starting to go away
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 15:54:47
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee!
SCOOP! I love your energy today.
I feel MUCH better today.. The cold was gone a couple days ago, but this damn cough has lingered. Last night was the first night in a week when I was able to actually use my sleep mask without a damn coughing fit popping it off my face every ten minutes!
the cough is horrible, it lingers and lingers and its finally starting to go away
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 15:54:54
Raine on 01/11/2013 15:54:54
This is how Fox makes people stupitter
Actually, the NRCC started this nonsense.
Actually, the NRCC started this nonsense.
I had a little fun at the National Republican Campaign Committee's expense the other day, when the NRCC mistakenly argued that a $1 trillion platinum coin would necessarily need $1 trillion worth of platinum. That didn't make any sense; the NRCC became the butt of jokes for a few hours; and the political world got a nice little lesson on how money works.
Everyone, that is, except the folks at Fox News, who yesterday made the exact same mistake.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 15:59:28
wow - an a penny has a penny's worth of copper in it
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 15:59:28
Quote by Raine:
This is how Fox makes people stupitter
Actually, the NRCC started this nonsense.
Everyone, that is, except the folks at Fox News, who yesterday made the exact same mistake.
wow - an a penny has a penny's worth of copper in it
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:02:21
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:02:21
yaeh, I'm sure the movie Steph is talking about is Hannibal, Gary Oldman get's eaten by pigs in the end
Comment by TriSec on 01/11/2013 16:10:42
TriSec on 01/11/2013 16:10:42
That's Ron Paul talking now.
Shouldn't we be back on the Gold Standard?
Shouldn't we be back on the Gold Standard?
Comment by 
livingonli on 01/11/2013 16:12:53
livingonli on 01/11/2013 16:12:53
Good morning, folks. Couldn't sleep anymore so I am actually up early but I have to get up early tomorrow to be at work so it balances out. Working a whole bunch of College Basketball games tomorrow which should be brutal.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 16:15:00
I read the Matt Yglesias article yesterday. Hello, money is abstraction that is not based on precious metals. This is Fox showing its contempt for its viewers.
Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 16:15:00
Quote by Raine:
This is how Fox makes people stupitter
Actually, the NRCC started this nonsense.
Everyone, that is, except the folks at Fox News, who yesterday made the exact same mistake.
I read the Matt Yglesias article yesterday. Hello, money is abstraction that is not based on precious metals. This is Fox showing its contempt for its viewers.
Comment by BobR on 01/11/2013 16:17:29
A dime ain't worth what it used to be... a nickle, however, has held onto it's worth
BobR on 01/11/2013 16:17:29
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
This is how Fox makes people stupitter
Actually, the NRCC started this nonsense.
Everyone, that is, except the folks at Fox News, who yesterday made the exact same mistake.
wow - an a penny has a penny's worth of copper in it
A dime ain't worth what it used to be... a nickle, however, has held onto it's worth
Comment by BobR on 01/11/2013 16:19:16
BobR on 01/11/2013 16:19:16
I think they're confusing collectible coins where a $20 cold coin is minted with $20 worth of pure gold -vs- currency which is simply a placeholder for worth.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 16:20:10
Raine on 01/11/2013 16:20:10
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 16:22:48
Raine on 01/11/2013 16:22:48
Quote by BobR:
A dime ain't worth what it used to be... a nickle, however, has held onto it's worth
Comment by Scoopster on 01/11/2013 16:23:05
It all comes down to their lack of education and deliberate ignorance of the facts, which are both hallmarks of this latest incarnation of the Know-Nothings.
Scoopster on 01/11/2013 16:23:05
Quote by BobR:
I think they're confusing collectible coins where a $20 cold coin is minted with $20 worth of pure gold -vs- currency which is simply a placeholder for worth.
It all comes down to their lack of education and deliberate ignorance of the facts, which are both hallmarks of this latest incarnation of the Know-Nothings.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:26:35
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:26:35
Wolverines! 
Chris 
Chris
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:27:46
well, that's an interesting tidbit
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:27:46
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
This is how Fox makes people stupitter
Actually, the NRCC started this nonsense.
Everyone, that is, except the folks at Fox News, who yesterday made the exact same mistake.
wow - an a penny has a penny's worth of copper in it
A dime ain't worth what it used to be... a nickle, however, has held onto it's worth
well, that's an interesting tidbit
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:29:24
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:29:24
is it me or are the gun people really parsing hard the gun definitions?
Comment by livingonli on 01/11/2013 16:29:24
It does feel like listening to GOPers that it is today's version of arguing with stupid people.
livingonli on 01/11/2013 16:29:24
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by BobR:
I think they're confusing collectible coins where a $20 cold coin is minted with $20 worth of pure gold -vs- currency which is simply a placeholder for worth.
It all comes down to their lack of education and deliberate ignorance of the facts, which are both hallmarks of this latest incarnation of the Know-Nothings.
It does feel like listening to GOPers that it is today's version of arguing with stupid people.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 16:29:57
As in Red Dawn?
Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 16:29:57
Quote by wickedpam:
Wolverines!
As in Red Dawn?
Comment by livingonli on 01/11/2013 16:30:07
livingonli on 01/11/2013 16:30:07
Well, there is also one of the Fox News pundits who actually decried the teaching of Algebra as a "Liberal plot".
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 16:30:57
Oh yes very much so. Did you know a hammer is an assault weapon? Seriously.
Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 16:30:57
Quote by wickedpam:
is it me or are the gun people really parsing hard the gun definitions?
Oh yes very much so. Did you know a hammer is an assault weapon? Seriously.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:31:59
yep
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:31:59
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:
Wolverines!
As in Red Dawn?
yep
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:32:51
of course it is, especially if I throw it a the person(s) who is(are) pissing me off
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:32:51
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:
is it me or are the gun people really parsing hard the gun definitions?
Oh yes very much so. Did you know a hammer is an assault weapon? Seriously.
of course it is, especially if I throw it a the person(s) who is(are) pissing me off
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 16:35:03
Raine on 01/11/2013 16:35:03
Ok, you will remember I posted a link about the history of the Second Amendment yesterday, correct? If you missed it, here:
Please forgive me while I pound my head on my desk after having read this:
Gun Appreciation Day Leader: If Blacks Had Guns, They Would Not Have Been Slaves
The Hidden History of the Second Amendment
In his 99-page article, Professor Bogus argues that the evidence, including an analysis of Madison's original language, and an understanding of how he and other founders drew on England's Declaration of Rights, strongly suggests that Madison wrote this provision for the specific purpose of assuring his constituency that Congress could not use its newly acquired power to deprive the states of an armed militia. Madison's concern, Professor Bogus argues, was not hunting, self-defense, national defense, or resistance to governmental tyranny, but slave control.
The "hidden history" of the Second Amendment is important for two reasons. First, it supports the view that the amendment does not grant individuals a right to keep and bear arms for their own purposes; rather it only protects the right to bear arms within the militia, as defined within the main body of the Constitution, under the joint control of the federal and state governments. At the time, the southern states extensively regulated their militias and prescribed their slave control responsibilities. Second, the hidden history is important because it fundamentally changes how we think about the right to keep and bear arms. The Second Amendment takes on an entirely different complexion when instead of being symbolized by a musket in the hands of the minutemen, it is associated with a musket in the hands of the slave holder.
Please forgive me while I pound my head on my desk after having read this:
Gun Appreciation Day Leader: If Blacks Had Guns, They Would Not Have Been Slaves
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 16:37:09
You should see the discussion I had yesterday. I highly recommend reading it. Wanna see moving goalposts? This was Classic.
And I must say, I am proud of how I handled myself.
Raine on 01/11/2013 16:37:09
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:
is it me or are the gun people really parsing hard the gun definitions?
Oh yes very much so. Did you know a hammer is an assault weapon? Seriously.
of course it is, especially if I throw it a the person(s) who is(are) pissing me off
You should see the discussion I had yesterday. I highly recommend reading it. Wanna see moving goalposts? This was Classic.
And I must say, I am proud of how I handled myself.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 16:38:18
Raine on 01/11/2013 16:38:18
Oh, here is the new fucking RW meme: Guns/abortions.
GRRRRRR....
GRRRRRR....
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 16:39:52
Raine on 01/11/2013 16:39:52
FUCK YOU CALLER.
Abortion: a medical procedure.
Gun: a thing.
Abortion: a medical procedure.
Gun: a thing.
Comment by livingonli on 01/11/2013 16:40:49
Perfectly consistent with their definition of the sanctity of human life.
livingonli on 01/11/2013 16:40:49
Quote by Raine:
Oh, here is the new fucking RW meme: Guns/abortions.
GRRRRRR....
Perfectly consistent with their definition of the sanctity of human life.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:43:35
I've learned I can't have these discussions with people - my brain doesn't handle it well. You always handle these thing great!
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 16:43:35
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:
is it me or are the gun people really parsing hard the gun definitions?
Oh yes very much so. Did you know a hammer is an assault weapon? Seriously.
of course it is, especially if I throw it a the person(s) who is(are) pissing me off
You should see the discussion I had yesterday. I highly recommend reading it. Wanna see moving goalposts? This was Classic.
And I must say, I am proud of how I handled myself.
I've learned I can't have these discussions with people - my brain doesn't handle it well. You always handle these thing great!
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 16:44:13
Raine on 01/11/2013 16:44:13
help me here, no strawman or Red herring responses:
Laws yes, restrictions on those who have done no wrong and are mentally "fit" NO! What makes me angry is a political agenda leveraging a horrific crime to further its agenda by making new laws that will only serve to tax law abiding citizens and create false sense of security as proven by the latest school shooting in the toughest gun control state in the nation!!!!
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 16:45:09
Actually Bob is the master at that. This was really tough.
Raine on 01/11/2013 16:45:09
Quote by wickedpam:
I've learned I can't have these discussions with people - my brain doesn't handle it well. You always handle these thing great!
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 16:47:20
I responded:
Still not logical, ___. Laws are, by nature, about restriction.
Raine on 01/11/2013 16:47:20
Quote by Raine:
help me here, no strawman or Red herring responses:Laws yes, restrictions on those who have done no wrong and are mentally "fit" NO! What makes me angry is a political agenda leveraging a horrific crime to further its agenda by making new laws that will only serve to tax law abiding citizens and create false sense of security as proven by the latest school shooting in the toughest gun control state in the nation!!!!
Still not logical, ___. Laws are, by nature, about restriction.
Comment by Scoopster on 01/11/2013 17:01:34
The restriction isn't on law abiding, mentally stable citizens. It's on weapons that were designed for war and have no place in a peaceful civilian society. So the solution is either to outlaw manufacturing civilian models of these weapons, or a severe tax on BOTH SALE AND MANUFACTURE of civilian-model assault weapons and the ammunition they use. Since you're a "tax abiding citizen" then you won't mind that at all!
Oh by the way, having the strictest state gun laws means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when you can go to another state and buy these kind of weapons out of the trunk of someone's car, without any kind of background check, waiting period or registration.
Scoopster on 01/11/2013 17:01:34
Quote by Raine:
help me here, no strawman or Red herring responses:Laws yes, restrictions on those who have done no wrong and are mentally "fit" NO! What makes me angry is a political agenda leveraging a horrific crime to further its agenda by making new laws that will only serve to tax law abiding citizens and create false sense of security as proven by the latest school shooting in the toughest gun control state in the nation!!!!
The restriction isn't on law abiding, mentally stable citizens. It's on weapons that were designed for war and have no place in a peaceful civilian society. So the solution is either to outlaw manufacturing civilian models of these weapons, or a severe tax on BOTH SALE AND MANUFACTURE of civilian-model assault weapons and the ammunition they use. Since you're a "tax abiding citizen" then you won't mind that at all!
Oh by the way, having the strictest state gun laws means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when you can go to another state and buy these kind of weapons out of the trunk of someone's car, without any kind of background check, waiting period or registration.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 17:02:14
Ya'll both rock
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 17:02:14
Quote by Raine:Actually Bob is the master at that. This was really tough.Quote by wickedpam:
I've learned I can't have these discussions with people - my brain doesn't handle it well. You always handle these thing great!
Ya'll both rock
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 17:03:14
Scoop. I love you a little bit more than I did before.
Raine on 01/11/2013 17:03:14
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
help me here, no strawman or Red herring responses:Laws yes, restrictions on those who have done no wrong and are mentally "fit" NO! What makes me angry is a political agenda leveraging a horrific crime to further its agenda by making new laws that will only serve to tax law abiding citizens and create false sense of security as proven by the latest school shooting in the toughest gun control state in the nation!!!!
The restriction isn't on law abiding, mentally stable citizens. It's on weapons that were designed for war and have no place in a peaceful civilian society. So the solution is either to outlaw manufacturing civilian models of these weapons, or a severe tax on BOTH SALE AND MANUFACTURE of civilian-model assault weapons and the ammunition they use. Since you're a "tax abiding citizen" then you won't mind that at all!
Oh by the way, having the strictest state gun laws means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when you can go to another state and buy these kind of weapons out of the trunk of someone's car, without any kind of background check, waiting period or registration.
Scoop. I love you a little bit more than I did before.
Comment by Scoopster on 01/11/2013 17:05:31
Scoopster on 01/11/2013 17:05:31
Tax-abiding citizen? Ooops lol..
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 17:13:41
I reworded what you said.
I am completely teachable. I am trying to comprehend every stance you have taken in this thread. There have been a lot of stances.
One thing I would like to say about you proclaiming that NYS has some of the strictest Gun laws in the nation. It is a neutered idea when people can go to another state and buy these kind of weapons out of the trunk of someone's car, or gun show -- without any kind of background check, waiting period or registration.
Don't tell me I am unteachable. The very premise of this post was about something new I learned -- about the history of the 2nd .
You aren't willing to accept what I have said.
Raine on 01/11/2013 17:13:41
Quote by Scoopster:
Tax-abiding citizen? Ooops lol..
I reworded what you said.
It's logical, you are just not teachable. Don't know what more to say. The laws will stop what Raine?
I am completely teachable. I am trying to comprehend every stance you have taken in this thread. There have been a lot of stances.
One thing I would like to say about you proclaiming that NYS has some of the strictest Gun laws in the nation. It is a neutered idea when people can go to another state and buy these kind of weapons out of the trunk of someone's car, or gun show -- without any kind of background check, waiting period or registration.
Don't tell me I am unteachable. The very premise of this post was about something new I learned -- about the history of the 2nd .
You aren't willing to accept what I have said.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 17:19:01
"teachable" isn't that what they used to refer to the mental handicapped or women in the 40's?
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 17:19:01
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
Tax-abiding citizen? Ooops lol..
I reworded what you said.It's logical, you are just not teachable. Don't know what more to say. The laws will stop what Raine?
I am completely teachable. I am trying to comprehend every stance you have taken in this thread. There have been a lot of stances.
One thing I would like to say about you proclaiming that NYS has some of the strictest Gun laws in the nation. It is a neutered idea when people can go to another state and buy these kind of weapons out of the trunk of someone's car, or gun show -- without any kind of background check, waiting period or registration.
Don't tell me I am unteachable. The very premise of this post was about something new I learned -- about the history of the 2nd .
You aren't willing to accept what I have said.
"teachable" isn't that what they used to refer to the mental handicapped or women in the 40's?
Comment by TriSec on 01/11/2013 17:20:18
TriSec on 01/11/2013 17:20:18
Imagine that....not gay!
"The details provided by victims of his abuse paint the picture of a mainly opportunistic individual who used his celebrity status as a powerful tool to coerce or control them, preying on the vulnerable or star-struck for his sexual gratification," the police report said.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 18:02:48
Trust me, that comment did not go unnoticed for the same reason you mention. It was incredibly condescending.
and telling.
Raine on 01/11/2013 18:02:48
Quote by wickedpam:
"teachable" isn't that what they used to refer to the mental handicapped or women in the 40's?
Trust me, that comment did not go unnoticed for the same reason you mention. It was incredibly condescending.
and telling.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 18:05:06
very - dude sounds like an ass
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 18:05:06
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
"teachable" isn't that what they used to refer to the mental handicapped or women in the 40's?
Trust me, that comment did not go unnoticed for the same reason you mention. It was incredibly condescending.
and telling.
very - dude sounds like an ass
Comment by TriSec on 01/11/2013 18:05:13
(A real patch. Used to be a spoof that National was cracking down on, but then they gave up and now sell these at the Scout Store.)
TriSec on 01/11/2013 18:05:13
(A real patch. Used to be a spoof that National was cracking down on, but then they gave up and now sell these at the Scout Store.)
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 18:05:32
What a condescending shit head.
Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 18:05:32
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
Tax-abiding citizen? Ooops lol..
I reworded what you said.It's logical, you are just not teachable. Don't know what more to say. The laws will stop what Raine?
I am completely teachable. I am trying to comprehend every stance you have taken in this thread. There have been a lot of stances.
One thing I would like to say about you proclaiming that NYS has some of the strictest Gun laws in the nation. It is a neutered idea when people can go to another state and buy these kind of weapons out of the trunk of someone's car, or gun show -- without any kind of background check, waiting period or registration.
Don't tell me I am unteachable. The very premise of this post was about something new I learned -- about the history of the 2nd .
You aren't willing to accept what I have said.
What a condescending shit head.
Comment by TriSec on 01/11/2013 18:07:04
TriSec on 01/11/2013 18:07:04
"just not teachable"
Right up there with "You People".
Right up there with "You People".
Comment by TriSec on 01/11/2013 18:10:11
TriSec on 01/11/2013 18:10:11
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your captain speaking.
We have begun our initial descent into chemo-induced oblivion. We'll endeavour to keep the pointy end of the plane moving forward as much as possible the rest of the afternoon, but if things start looking spinny outside the window, and there is a commotion from the passenger compartment, all will not be as it should be.
Thank you for flying Nightmare Airlines.
We have begun our initial descent into chemo-induced oblivion. We'll endeavour to keep the pointy end of the plane moving forward as much as possible the rest of the afternoon, but if things start looking spinny outside the window, and there is a commotion from the passenger compartment, all will not be as it should be.
Thank you for flying Nightmare Airlines.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 18:18:38
Raine on 01/11/2013 18:18:38
Ed is having a great discussion with Kevin from DC. REally really good discussion. Kevin is quite a thoughtful dude.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 18:22:27
Raine on 01/11/2013 18:22:27
SO Can I say STFU to people who use the old Tax & Spend librul meme?
California no longer has a deficit.
California no longer has a deficit.
Comment by 
clintster on 01/11/2013 18:36:45
clintster on 01/11/2013 18:36:45
Morning (looks at clock) er, afternoon peeps!
So, I got a letter from the Georgia Department of Labor yesterday informing me that unemployment benefits are extended through 2013, thanks to the President. I'm just stoked that I have some more breathing room while I look for a new job.
Further, I am glad that I am receiving my benefits through Georgia and not North Carolina. I found out last night that the GOP state legislature is looking to cut benefits by a third.
So, I got a letter from the Georgia Department of Labor yesterday informing me that unemployment benefits are extended through 2013, thanks to the President. I'm just stoked that I have some more breathing room while I look for a new job.
Further, I am glad that I am receiving my benefits through Georgia and not North Carolina. I found out last night that the GOP state legislature is looking to cut benefits by a third.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 18:52:54
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 18:52:54
Comment by livingonli on 01/11/2013 18:56:00
livingonli on 01/11/2013 18:56:00
We are overdue for a meet-up since it has been almost 5 years since most of us got together (since I wasn't able to get to the Inauguration).
Comment by Scoopster on 01/11/2013 18:59:17
That reminds me.. I keep getting these things in my email about paid tickets for the inauguration and it's got me wondering if there's an unpaid spot on the Mall!
Scoopster on 01/11/2013 18:59:17
Quote by livingonli:
We are overdue for a meet-up since it has been almost 5 years since most of us got together (since I wasn't able to get to the Inauguration).
That reminds me.. I keep getting these things in my email about paid tickets for the inauguration and it's got me wondering if there's an unpaid spot on the Mall!
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 19:03:11
Scoop, the original Know-Nothing were called that because if they were asked about any number of nativist groups they would say, "I know nothing." It isn't about ignorance per se, but about deliberate ignorance and not snitching.
Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 19:03:11
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by BobR:
I think they're confusing collectible coins where a $20 cold coin is minted with $20 worth of pure gold -vs- currency which is simply a placeholder for worth.
It all comes down to their lack of education and deliberate ignorance of the facts, which are both hallmarks of this latest incarnation of the Know-Nothings.
Scoop, the original Know-Nothing were called that because if they were asked about any number of nativist groups they would say, "I know nothing." It isn't about ignorance per se, but about deliberate ignorance and not snitching.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 19:06:42
Mondobubba on 01/11/2013 19:06:42
While I was at lunch Fox News was on the teevee mosheen. The story of the minute, the trillion dollar coin! Fox is actually covering this as if it were a legitimate policy idea, rather than the really story which is lampooning the GOP's my way or the highway mentality on budget issues. This is just further proof that Fox has nothing but contempt for its viewers.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 19:11:34
Yes.
Raine on 01/11/2013 19:11:34
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by livingonli:
We are overdue for a meet-up since it has been almost 5 years since most of us got together (since I wasn't able to get to the Inauguration).
That reminds me.. I keep getting these things in my email about paid tickets for the inauguration and it's got me wondering if there's an unpaid spot on the Mall!
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 19:12:09
I like it!
Raine on 01/11/2013 19:12:09
Quote by wickedpam:
Scavenger Hunts in DC
These sound cool! maybe something to do for the next meet up?
Comment by wickedpam on 01/11/2013 19:13:13
pricing seems rather reasonable to and they're on the weekends, which is nice.
wickedpam on 01/11/2013 19:13:13
Quote by Raine:I like it!Quote by wickedpam:
Scavenger Hunts in DC
These sound cool! maybe something to do for the next meet up?
pricing seems rather reasonable to and they're on the weekends, which is nice.
Comment by Scoopster on 01/11/2013 19:29:14
Scoopster on 01/11/2013 19:29:14
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by livingonli:
We are overdue for a meet-up since it has been almost 5 years since most of us got together (since I wasn't able to get to the Inauguration).
That reminds me.. I keep getting these things in my email about paid tickets for the inauguration and it's got me wondering if there's an unpaid spot on the Mall!
Yes.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 19:42:26
Raine on 01/11/2013 19:42:26
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by livingonli:
We are overdue for a meet-up since it has been almost 5 years since most of us got together (since I wasn't able to get to the Inauguration).
That reminds me.. I keep getting these things in my email about paid tickets for the inauguration and it's got me wondering if there's an unpaid spot on the Mall!
Yes.
Comment by livingonli on 01/11/2013 19:56:16
livingonli on 01/11/2013 19:56:16
Too bad I can't travel down on such short notice and now our scheduled are going to be out of whack now that Hockey's back and Hockey season starts inaugural weekend. Our only hope is that NBC Sports is taking the Rangers-Bruins game on Saturday since the rest of the NHL schedule still hasn't come out since they are waiting for the NHLPA to formerly ratify the agreement.
Comment by TriSec on 01/11/2013 20:39:05
TriSec on 01/11/2013 20:39:05
TriSec is a potato.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 21:05:42
Then you are delicious.
Raine on 01/11/2013 21:05:42
Quote by TriSec:
TriSec is a potato.
Then you are delicious.
Comment by Raine on 01/11/2013 21:15:24
Raine on 01/11/2013 21:15:24
Comment by BobR on 01/11/2013 22:19:14
TriSec +
= fried potato
BobR on 01/11/2013 22:19:14
Quote by TriSec:
TriSec is a potato.
TriSec +
= fried potato
Comment by Raine on 01/12/2013 02:31:42
Raine on 01/12/2013 02:31:42
Mondo is at the Hospital.
Comment by Raine on 01/15/2013 03:53:21
Raine on 01/15/2013 03:53:21
Question for TriSec and Scoop : Lawrence O'Donnell and his Boston accent: Authentic or not?