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Ensuring Domestic Tranquility
Author: BobR
Date: 01/30/2013 14:00:26
On Sunday, a fire swept through a Brazilian night club, killing over 200 people. The story was eerily reminiscent of a fire several years ago in Rhode Island. In both cases, fireworks started the fires. In both cases, people got trampled trying to get out the front door. The club in Brazil only had one exit; the club in Rhode Island had several. That is likely because of workplace safety laws that have evolved since the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire of 1911.
Republicans constantly put forth the notion that regulations "get in the way of business". Most regulations, however, are created as a result of a tragedy which could be prevented in the future. As a result, we have regulations requiring businesses to have multiple fire exits, to minimize the pollution they put into the environment, and to specify what they can, can't, and must say in labeling and commercials. That latter one of course is for the safety and well-being of the consumer.
Throughout the years, legislation via Congress or judicial decisions in the Supreme Court have defined the boundaries of our freedoms so that they protect society as a whole from the misuse and abuse of those freedoms. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states:
Yet our freedom of speech is curtailed when the public safety is at stake (the "shouting fire in a crowded theater" example). Our freedom of the press is curtailed by disallowing the printing of blatantly false statements about a person. Laws requiring permits for demonstrations and anti-loitering laws would seem to abridge our right to peaceably assemble. Some Mormons might argue that laws against polygamy violate their religious freedom (not to mention laws in city and suburban areas where a religion might include an animal sacrifice as part of their proceedings).
So it's well established that government can and does curtail our rights when the balance of exercising those rights versus the safety and/or general welfare of the public tips in the public's favor. Which leads us to - as you already expected - the Second Amendment. The second amendment reads (bold-face mine):
That first part of the amendment (often skipped over by most gun enthusiasts) denotes the rationale for allowing the people to keep and bear arms. The rationale is that since there was no standing army, the militias would serve the duty of protecting the free state (country). This notion was reinforced by the Militia Act of 1792, and the Militia Act of 1903, which codified that the National Guard were the militia. Therefore, if you are not a member of the National Guard, the 2nd Amendment does not apply to you.
The likelihood of a complete ban on weapons ownership for non-militia members is nil. However, restrictions on the type of weapons a civilian may own, and the rules by which they must comply to purchase and own them are likely and have precedent. It is already illegal to own fully automatic weapons and other military armaments (bombs, grenades, rocket launchers). It's a small step to ban weapons which can be converted to automatic, to ban large capacity clips and the guns which can accommodate them, and to institute strict regulations on the trafficking of firearms.
Before the Amendments, before the sections denoting the rights, responsibilities, and operations of our 3 branches of government, there is the preamble. This mission statement for our country denotes that the Constitution was meant to "insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare". The government and the courts have acted before to ensure those ideals were maintained for the public, perhaps to the detriment of a few. It's time for them to do it again.
Republicans constantly put forth the notion that regulations "get in the way of business". Most regulations, however, are created as a result of a tragedy which could be prevented in the future. As a result, we have regulations requiring businesses to have multiple fire exits, to minimize the pollution they put into the environment, and to specify what they can, can't, and must say in labeling and commercials. That latter one of course is for the safety and well-being of the consumer.
Throughout the years, legislation via Congress or judicial decisions in the Supreme Court have defined the boundaries of our freedoms so that they protect society as a whole from the misuse and abuse of those freedoms. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Yet our freedom of speech is curtailed when the public safety is at stake (the "shouting fire in a crowded theater" example). Our freedom of the press is curtailed by disallowing the printing of blatantly false statements about a person. Laws requiring permits for demonstrations and anti-loitering laws would seem to abridge our right to peaceably assemble. Some Mormons might argue that laws against polygamy violate their religious freedom (not to mention laws in city and suburban areas where a religion might include an animal sacrifice as part of their proceedings).
So it's well established that government can and does curtail our rights when the balance of exercising those rights versus the safety and/or general welfare of the public tips in the public's favor. Which leads us to - as you already expected - the Second Amendment. The second amendment reads (bold-face mine):
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
That first part of the amendment (often skipped over by most gun enthusiasts) denotes the rationale for allowing the people to keep and bear arms. The rationale is that since there was no standing army, the militias would serve the duty of protecting the free state (country). This notion was reinforced by the Militia Act of 1792, and the Militia Act of 1903, which codified that the National Guard were the militia. Therefore, if you are not a member of the National Guard, the 2nd Amendment does not apply to you.
The likelihood of a complete ban on weapons ownership for non-militia members is nil. However, restrictions on the type of weapons a civilian may own, and the rules by which they must comply to purchase and own them are likely and have precedent. It is already illegal to own fully automatic weapons and other military armaments (bombs, grenades, rocket launchers). It's a small step to ban weapons which can be converted to automatic, to ban large capacity clips and the guns which can accommodate them, and to institute strict regulations on the trafficking of firearms.
Before the Amendments, before the sections denoting the rights, responsibilities, and operations of our 3 branches of government, there is the preamble. This mission statement for our country denotes that the Constitution was meant to "insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare". The government and the courts have acted before to ensure those ideals were maintained for the public, perhaps to the detriment of a few. It's time for them to do it again.
Comments:
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Comment by 
Raine on 01/30/2013 14:06:04
Raine on 01/30/2013 14:06:04
Well done BobR.
Good morning!
Good morning!
Comment by 
wickedpam on 01/30/2013 14:18:10
wickedpam on 01/30/2013 14:18:10
Morning 
Comment by Raine on 01/30/2013 14:19:29
Raine on 01/30/2013 14:19:29
The good news about the Electoral college brewhaha:
Virginia: The bill was killed in the senate
Ohio GOP said they won't rig it
Michigan Michigan Governor Backs Off ‘Unfair’ Electoral Rigging Plan
Mind you, Ohio and Michigan still need to be watched, but it is starting to sound like a lot of cold water is being thrown on this idea.
I'm still trying to figure out what's happening in Florida and Pennsylvania. Overall this is VERY good news.
Virginia: The bill was killed in the senate
Ohio GOP said they won't rig it
Michigan Michigan Governor Backs Off ‘Unfair’ Electoral Rigging Plan
Mind you, Ohio and Michigan still need to be watched, but it is starting to sound like a lot of cold water is being thrown on this idea.
I'm still trying to figure out what's happening in Florida and Pennsylvania. Overall this is VERY good news.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 01/30/2013 14:25:41
trojanrabbit on 01/30/2013 14:25:41
Good morning all.
So today Governor Patrick is to name the interim successor to John Kerry in the Senate.
Rabbit would LOVE to see Barney Frank in there hurling a few barbs at McTurtle and friends. And he's told Patrick he would love to serve.
But given the dysfunctional nature of the Senate, a Governor who wanted to point out the uselessness of that body (thanks, Harry Reid) could send a "message" (I'm preparing to duck now....you know these aren't serious.)
1. Some sports wank. Tom Brady isn't doing anything until summer anyway. Give him some time in the Senate. Likewise Bill Belichick. Maybe we'll get some legislation allowing a team to spy on another, or ruling that the Patriots must always be in the Super Bowl. Appointing (Red Sox owner) John Henry might prevent him from fucking up the Red Sox further.
2. What the hell.... appoint Scott Brown. With the short memories of the voters of the Commonwealth, I think they need to be reminded daily of Scottso's "bipartisanship".
3. As a combined "fuck you", middle finger and nuclear bomb, offer Sarah Palin a residence along with a Senate appointment. The entertainment community would thank him.
So today Governor Patrick is to name the interim successor to John Kerry in the Senate.
Rabbit would LOVE to see Barney Frank in there hurling a few barbs at McTurtle and friends. And he's told Patrick he would love to serve.
But given the dysfunctional nature of the Senate, a Governor who wanted to point out the uselessness of that body (thanks, Harry Reid) could send a "message" (I'm preparing to duck now....you know these aren't serious.)
1. Some sports wank. Tom Brady isn't doing anything until summer anyway. Give him some time in the Senate. Likewise Bill Belichick. Maybe we'll get some legislation allowing a team to spy on another, or ruling that the Patriots must always be in the Super Bowl. Appointing (Red Sox owner) John Henry might prevent him from fucking up the Red Sox further.
2. What the hell.... appoint Scott Brown. With the short memories of the voters of the Commonwealth, I think they need to be reminded daily of Scottso's "bipartisanship".
3. As a combined "fuck you", middle finger and nuclear bomb, offer Sarah Palin a residence along with a Senate appointment. The entertainment community would thank him.
Comment by Raine on 01/30/2013 14:32:38
I'm imagining Belichick showing up in his dowdy cutoff sweatshirts...
Raine on 01/30/2013 14:32:38
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Good morning all.
So today Governor Patrick is to name the interim successor to John Kerry in the Senate.
Rabbit would LOVE to see Barney Frank in there hurling a few barbs at McTurtle and friends. And he's told Patrick he would love to serve.
But given the dysfunctional nature of the Senate, a Governor who wanted to point out the uselessness of that body (thanks, Harry Reid) could send a "message" (I'm preparing to duck now....you know these aren't serious.)
1. Some sports wank. Tom Brady isn't doing anything until summer anyway. Give him some time in the Senate. Likewise Bill Belichick. Appointing (Red Sox owner) John Henry might prevent him from fucking up the Red Sox further.
2. What the hell.... appoint Scott Brown. With the short memories of the voters of the Commonwealth, I think they need to be reminded daily of Scottso's "bipartisanship".
3. As a combined "fuck you", middle finger and nuclear bomb, offer Sarah Palin a residence along with a Senate appointment. The entertainment community would thank him.
I'm imagining Belichick showing up in his dowdy cutoff sweatshirts...
Comment by 
TriSec on 01/30/2013 14:33:25
TriSec on 01/30/2013 14:33:25
Morning, comrades.
I am somewhat pleased to report that I feel slightly better today. Even the neuropathy seems slightly less painful and my right hand isn't tingling as much today. Tomorrow is 3 weeks since my last treatment.
Very prescient on that second ammendment. It is interesting living here in what's been called "the most historic state in the union", where of course John Adams wrote the state constitution that became the model for the Fed. I feel like just by being a native, we're exposed to these things nearly every day as a matter of course. It gives me a better understanding of what the founders were actually trying to do.
Like requiring everyone to be a part of the militia for the common defense. Minutemen, anyone?
I am somewhat pleased to report that I feel slightly better today. Even the neuropathy seems slightly less painful and my right hand isn't tingling as much today. Tomorrow is 3 weeks since my last treatment.
Very prescient on that second ammendment. It is interesting living here in what's been called "the most historic state in the union", where of course John Adams wrote the state constitution that became the model for the Fed. I feel like just by being a native, we're exposed to these things nearly every day as a matter of course. It gives me a better understanding of what the founders were actually trying to do.
Like requiring everyone to be a part of the militia for the common defense. Minutemen, anyone?
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 14:56:50
Sunshine is a very good disinfectant.
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 14:56:50
Quote by Raine:
The good news about the Electoral college brewhaha:
Virginia: The bill was killed in the senate
Ohio GOP said they won't rig it
Michigan Michigan Governor Backs Off ‘Unfair’ Electoral Rigging Plan
Mind you, Ohio and Michigan still need to be watched, but it is starting to sound like a lot of cold water is being thrown on this idea.
I'm still trying to figure out what's happening in Florida and Pennsylvania. Overall this is VERY good news.
Sunshine is a very good disinfectant.
Comment by TriSec on 01/30/2013 14:57:47
TriSec on 01/30/2013 14:57:47
Listening to Momma's bits from yesterday...about the BSA.
I just want to point out that everyone overlooks one thing - technically they are not a "private" organization. The BSA operates in the United States under a national charter approved and authorized every year by the Congress.
So again I say, our national leadership annually endorses a discriminatory organization. Imagine for just one minute if the KKK was annually authorized in this manner.
I just want to point out that everyone overlooks one thing - technically they are not a "private" organization. The BSA operates in the United States under a national charter approved and authorized every year by the Congress.
So again I say, our national leadership annually endorses a discriminatory organization. Imagine for just one minute if the KKK was annually authorized in this manner.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 14:59:27
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 14:59:27
I hate to be a wet blanket, but the SCOTUS redefined gun ownership from a collective right (militia) to a individual right when they overturned the DC hand gun ban a couple of years back.
Comment by Raine on 01/30/2013 15:03:50
Raine on 01/30/2013 15:03:50
Tri, Rabbit --- Breaking news from Mass: Patrick picked Mo Cowan
You think this might mean that the Governor will run for that seat?
You think this might mean that the Governor will run for that seat?
Comment by Raine on 01/30/2013 15:09:10
As far as changing gun laws, that is apples and oranges. ThinkProgress stated this today, and I thought it precient:
Raine on 01/30/2013 15:09:10
Quote by Mondobubba:
I hate to be a wet blanket, but the SCOTUS redefined gun ownership from a collective right (militia) to a individual right when they overturned the DC hand gun ban a couple of years back.
This debate isn’t about the Second Amendment. Since the Supreme Court’s 2008 ruling in D.C. v. Heller, banning the ownership of guns “in common use†has been legally impossible. That’s why none of the proposed regulations ban handguns or most shotguns and hunting rifles. Justice Scalia’s ruling specifically allows restrictions on “dangerous and unusual†weapons and stipulates that “nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.â€
Comment by wickedpam on 01/30/2013 15:11:19
my Mom was rather surprised to hear he's gay
wickedpam on 01/30/2013 15:11:19
Quote by Mondobubba:
Jim Neighbors marries his long time partner!
Gooolley!
my Mom was rather surprised to hear he's gay
Comment by TriSec on 01/30/2013 15:11:31
Ummm, who?
TriSec on 01/30/2013 15:11:31
Quote by Raine:
Tri, Rabbit --- Breaking news from Mass: Patrick picked Mo Cowan
You think this might mean that the Governor will run for that seat?
Ummm, who?
Comment by Raine on 01/30/2013 15:17:46
Right?
His Chief of Staff? Odd choice, no?
Raine on 01/30/2013 15:17:46
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
Tri, Rabbit --- Breaking news from Mass: Patrick picked Mo Cowan
You think this might mean that the Governor will run for that seat?
Ummm, who?
Right?
His Chief of Staff? Odd choice, no?
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:21:52
Mondo stands corrected. Mondo thanks Raine. Mondo will now stop referring to himself in the 3rd person like some preening hip hop star.
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:21:52
Quote by Raine:As far as changing gun laws, that is apples and oranges. ThinkProgress stated this today, and I thought it precient:Quote by Mondobubba:
I hate to be a wet blanket, but the SCOTUS redefined gun ownership from a collective right (militia) to a individual right when they overturned the DC hand gun ban a couple of years back.This debate isn’t about the Second Amendment. Since the Supreme Court’s 2008 ruling in D.C. v. Heller, banning the ownership of guns “in common use†has been legally impossible. That’s why none of the proposed regulations ban handguns or most shotguns and hunting rifles. Justice Scalia’s ruling specifically allows restrictions on “dangerous and unusual†weapons and stipulates that “nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.â€
Mondo stands corrected. Mondo thanks Raine. Mondo will now stop referring to himself in the 3rd person like some preening hip hop star.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:22:31
But one of the people they mentioned on the NPR mosheen this morning.
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:22:31
Quote by Raine:Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
Tri, Rabbit --- Breaking news from Mass: Patrick picked Mo Cowan
You think this might mean that the Governor will run for that seat?
Ummm, who?
Right?
His Chief of Staff? Odd choice, no?
But one of the people they mentioned on the NPR mosheen this morning.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:24:47
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:24:47
Did you know China's vast network of surveillance cameras is called...
(wait for it....)
SKYNET!
(wait for it....)
SKYNET!
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:26:10
Really? Seriously? She didn't know he was gay?
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:26:10
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:
Jim Neighbors marries his long time partner!
Gooolley!
my Mom was rather surprised to hear he's gay
Really? Seriously? She didn't know he was gay?
Comment by Raine on 01/30/2013 15:26:32
Raine on 01/30/2013 15:26:32
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:As far as changing gun laws, that is apples and oranges. ThinkProgress stated this today, and I thought it precient:Quote by Mondobubba:
I hate to be a wet blanket, but the SCOTUS redefined gun ownership from a collective right (militia) to a individual right when they overturned the DC hand gun ban a couple of years back.This debate isn’t about the Second Amendment. Since the Supreme Court’s 2008 ruling in D.C. v. Heller, banning the ownership of guns “in common use†has been legally impossible. That’s why none of the proposed regulations ban handguns or most shotguns and hunting rifles. Justice Scalia’s ruling specifically allows restrictions on “dangerous and unusual†weapons and stipulates that “nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.â€
Mondo stands corrected. Mondo thanks Raine. Mondo will now stop referring to himself in the 3rd person like some preening hip hop star.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/30/2013 15:28:10
nope
she doesn't really follow any sort of pop culture heck I only knew cause I listened to D&M
wickedpam on 01/30/2013 15:28:10
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:
Jim Neighbors marries his long time partner!
Gooolley!
my Mom was rather surprised to hear he's gay
Really? Seriously? She didn't know he was gay?
nope
she doesn't really follow any sort of pop culture heck I only knew cause I listened to D&M
Comment by TriSec on 01/30/2013 15:47:52
Wha? there's only two black sentors????
TriSec on 01/30/2013 15:47:52
Cowan will abandon the seat in June after a special election determines a permanent replacement. He becomes the second black member of the Senate after South Carolina's Tim Scott was also appointed by his governor to fill a vacancy.
Wha? there's only two black sentors????
Comment by 
Scoopster on 01/30/2013 15:50:53
Scoopster on 01/30/2013 15:50:53
Mornin' all.. 
Started re-reading my copy of Zinn's People's History of the United States. That very first chapter, which describes how the blooming and brutally material & capitalistic culture of the Europeans subjugated the egalitarian and communal culture of the Native Americans, got me thinking.. 600+ years later, that greed & war-driven machine has taken over the planet and is ingrained in the upbringing of almost every human, and has created a cycle of constant poverty, misery, and destruction.
What better time to break the cycle and go back - to that society where everyone lives in equality, without all this material want that has destroyed us and our planet?
Started re-reading my copy of Zinn's People's History of the United States. That very first chapter, which describes how the blooming and brutally material & capitalistic culture of the Europeans subjugated the egalitarian and communal culture of the Native Americans, got me thinking.. 600+ years later, that greed & war-driven machine has taken over the planet and is ingrained in the upbringing of almost every human, and has created a cycle of constant poverty, misery, and destruction.
What better time to break the cycle and go back - to that society where everyone lives in equality, without all this material want that has destroyed us and our planet?
Comment by Raine on 01/30/2013 15:51:30
Stunning, huh?
Raine on 01/30/2013 15:51:30
Quote by TriSec:
Cowan will abandon the seat in June after a special election determines a permanent replacement. He becomes the second black member of the Senate after South Carolina's Tim Scott was also appointed by his governor to fill a vacancy.
Wha? there's only two black sentors????
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:54:20
Both of the appointed no less. Indeed.
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 15:54:20
Quote by TriSec:
Cowan will abandon the seat in June after a special election determines a permanent replacement. He becomes the second black member of the Senate after South Carolina's Tim Scott was also appointed by his governor to fill a vacancy.
Wha? there's only two black sentors????
Both of the appointed no less.
Indeed.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/30/2013 15:58:07
wickedpam on 01/30/2013 15:58:07
You know this is the second time I've heard someone call into a show, who immigrated to the US say something about who Cuban's get an easier(?) path to US citizenship.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/30/2013 16:02:41
wickedpam on 01/30/2013 16:02:41
back in a few - errands 
Comment by TriSec on 01/30/2013 16:05:19
That's a leftover from the Cold War. It's still true to some extent - if the Coasties intercept you at sea, you go back, but if you set foot on US territory, you get to stay.
TriSec on 01/30/2013 16:05:19
Quote by wickedpam:
You know this is the second time I've heard someone call into a show, who immigrated to the US say something about who Cuban's get an easier(?) path to US citizenship.
That's a leftover from the Cold War. It's still true to some extent - if the Coasties intercept you at sea, you go back, but if you set foot on US territory, you get to stay.
Comment by TriSec on 01/30/2013 16:28:53
TriSec on 01/30/2013 16:28:53
Comment by Will in Chicago on 01/30/2013 16:34:20
I think it is necessary to create a sustainable future as we have many environmental challenges.
BobR, I think that no amount of logic will convince the most extreme gun nuts. However, we do need to talk to the larger public.
I hope that everyone is doing well today.
Will in Chicago on 01/30/2013 16:34:20
Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all..
Started re-reading my copy of Zinn's People's History of the United States. That very first chapter, which describes how the blooming and brutally material & capitalistic culture of the Europeans subjugated the egalitarian and communal culture of the Native Americans, got me thinking.. 600+ years later, that greed & war-driven machine has taken over the planet and is ingrained in the upbringing of almost every human, and has created a cycle of constant poverty, misery, and destruction.
What better time to break the cycle and go back - to that society where everyone lives in equality, without all this material want that has destroyed us and our planet?
I think it is necessary to create a sustainable future as we have many environmental challenges.
BobR, I think that no amount of logic will convince the most extreme gun nuts. However, we do need to talk to the larger public.
I hope that everyone is doing well today.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 01/30/2013 16:46:49
This is a tragedy. I have been to Hadiya Pendleton's school and the neighborhood is considered to be pretty safe, despite some rough areas surrounding it. It is time that we have a serious discussion about the issues impacting our inner cities -- crime, drugs, poverty and violence.
Here is the story from the Chicago Tribune, which has a video link:
I love my hometown deeply, but I am sad and angry over the violence in its streets.
Will in Chicago on 01/30/2013 16:46:49
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by BobR:
This is beyond sad
This is a tragedy. I have been to Hadiya Pendleton's school and the neighborhood is considered to be pretty safe, despite some rough areas surrounding it. It is time that we have a serious discussion about the issues impacting our inner cities -- crime, drugs, poverty and violence.
Here is the story from the Chicago Tribune, which has a video link:
Girl who performed at Obama inaugural events slain on South Side
By Jennifer Delgado Tribune reporter
12:54 a.m. CST, January 30, 2013
After taking their exams Tuesday, Hadiya Pendleton and a group of others decided to hang out at a park on Tuesday just blocks away from their high school on the South Side.
But the trip ended in tragedy when the 15-year-old King College Prep sophomore was fatally shot about a week after she attended President Barack Obama’s inauguration and performed at inaugural events with the King College Prep band and drill team.
Penldeton and a16-year-old boy wounded in the attack were shot in a park near the school about 2:20 p.m., in the 4500 block of South Oakenwald Avenue, police said.
Most of those who were in the park were gang members, and those in the group did not stay on scene to help after the shootings, according to police. The shooting occurred around 2:20 p.m. in the 4500 block of South Oakenwald Avenue.
I love my hometown deeply, but I am sad and angry over the violence in its streets.
Comment by TriSec on 01/30/2013 16:54:52
TriSec on 01/30/2013 16:54:52
Here's something to boggle your mind.
Interactive list of deaths by gun since Newtown. How's 1,424 grab you?
Interactive list of deaths by gun since Newtown. How's 1,424 grab you?
Comment by TriSec on 01/30/2013 16:59:42
TriSec on 01/30/2013 16:59:42
Just doing the math....that's the rough equivalent of a 747 going down with all hands every week since Newtown.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 01/30/2013 17:11:51
I am not surprised at all. Perhaps that is the real tragedy -- we expect to have people die regularly from gun violence.
Will in Chicago on 01/30/2013 17:11:51
Quote by TriSec:
Here's something to boggle your mind.
Interactive list of deaths by gun since Newtown. How's 1,424 grab you?
I am not surprised at all. Perhaps that is the real tragedy -- we expect to have people die regularly from gun violence.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:24:57
She should have had her own gun. Cause you know a good guy/gal with a gun is only way to stop a bad guy with a gun!
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:24:57
Quote by TriSec:Quote by BobR:
This is beyond sad
Number of fucks given by NRA = 0.
She should have had her own gun. Cause you know a good guy/gal with a gun is only way to stop a bad guy with a gun!
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:28:15
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:28:15
Comment by TriSec on 01/30/2013 17:29:00
TriSec on 01/30/2013 17:29:00
"air submarine" ready for trials
Not a blimp, not a zeppelin. It's a completely new approach to lighter-than-air flight.
Not a blimp, not a zeppelin. It's a completely new approach to lighter-than-air flight.
Comment by Raine on 01/30/2013 17:35:40
Raine on 01/30/2013 17:35:40
When it comes to guns -- we NEED to start seriously talking about poverty and the blowback from it.
Comment by 
BobR on 01/30/2013 17:35:51
interesting - but I wonder what this brings to the table that a cargo helicopter can't do?
BobR on 01/30/2013 17:35:51
Quote by TriSec:
"air submarine" ready for trials
Not a blimp, not a zeppelin. It's a completely new approach to lighter-than-air flight.
interesting - but I wonder what this brings to the table that a cargo helicopter can't do?
Comment by wickedpam on 01/30/2013 17:37:03
What I'm getting from the calls though, by people from Jamaica and Mexico, is that they don't like that Cuban's get that pass for setting foot on soil.
wickedpam on 01/30/2013 17:37:03
Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
You know this is the second time I've heard someone call into a show, who immigrated to the US say something about who Cuban's get an easier(?) path to US citizenship.
That's a leftover from the Cold War. It's still true to some extent - if the Coasties intercept you at sea, you go back, but if you set foot on US territory, you get to stay.
What I'm getting from the calls though, by people from Jamaica and Mexico, is that they don't like that Cuban's get that pass for setting foot on soil.
Comment by Raine on 01/30/2013 17:38:29
Raine on 01/30/2013 17:38:29
Obama said this nearly 4 years ago and he caught a lot of shit for saying it, but when you think about it, in hindsight -- he was correct:
You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:45:49
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:45:49
Quote by TriSec:
"air submarine" ready for trials
Not a blimp, not a zeppelin. It's a completely new approach to lighter-than-air flight.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:47:51
Psst a rigid airship can't be a Zeppelin unless it is build by the Zeppelin company. Intellectual property geek speaketh!
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:47:51
Quote by TriSec:
"air submarine" ready for trials
Not a blimp, not a zeppelin. It's a completely new approach to lighter-than-air flight.
Psst a rigid airship can't be a Zeppelin unless it is build by the Zeppelin company. Intellectual property geek speaketh!
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:48:36
He is absolutely right. I have a friend who lives in Erie, PA clings to all of these things.
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:48:36
Quote by Raine:
Obama said this nearly 4 years ago and he caught a lot of shit for saying it, but when you think about it, in hindsight -- he was correct:You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
He is absolutely right. I have a friend who lives in Erie, PA clings to all of these things.
Comment by Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:49:59
David Simon, creater of the Wire and I recommend this book.
Mondobubba on 01/30/2013 17:49:59
Quote by Raine:
When it comes to guns -- we NEED to start seriously talking about poverty and the blowback from it.
David Simon, creater of the Wire and I recommend this book.
Comment by 
livingonli on 01/30/2013 17:57:42
livingonli on 01/30/2013 17:57:42
Good day, folks. Overslept again and I have a 4 PM doctor's appointment so it's going to get crazy.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/30/2013 18:05:21
wickedpam on 01/30/2013 18:05:21
all insuranced up again 