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Social Justice = Economic Justice
Author: Raine
Date: 03/29/2013 13:42:46
An acquaintance told me last year that Rachel Maddow spends too much time talking about abortion rights and social issues (lady parts and gay stuff) - he told me that it would behoove those on the left to talk more about economic issues and the broader burdens of our nation. Longtime readers of this blog, and people who know me probably know that the conversation turned rather heated. It ended with a filibuster from this acquaintance and the proverbial 'we'll have to agree to disagree'.
That conversation comes back to me often. When I hear about states taking away voter rights, women losing the right to choose and the topic that is at the tip of everyones tongue these past few weeks, marriage equality I think about that conversation.
It came back to me again when I read this opinion piece, in particular - the beginning comments and the last comments. In reading this column, the author - just as my acquaintance - did is separating social/civil rights issues from economic ones. That isn't the *oligarchy* doing this, it is people on the left -- progressives. While there is much to be said about oligarchy in this country, we would behoove ourselves not to be our own enemies.
We don't need to blame the oligarchy when we have people on the left that are actually engaging in conquer and divide.They may not realize it, but it is exactly what they are doing. If we allow the left to define everything in economic terms versus social/civil rights-- as opposed to social/civil rights AND economic terms, together as one idea, we become more and more like our friend of the other aisle. To take it one step further, separating social issues from economic ones pushes us further and further into Neoliberalism -- some progressives (such as the author of the piece above) may not be aware of. If the desire to force the focus on economic issues (social security as one example) as separate from things like LGBT rights, women's rights, Immigration rights -- well, we are doing the work of the right and helping them carry out their agenda.
We lose when we stop seeing that equality and human rights ARE about economic issues. One cannot exist without the other, and to diminish that thought is literally doing the work of the oligarchs. Suddenly?
It appears that to whine about oligarchs is easier than to realize that there is no sudden here. People have been denied equality for a long time in this nation. LGBTers don't have equal access to social security STILL. There are 1138 things they don't have that straight people have. You'll have to forgive me, but to whine about this oligarchy when we have brothers and sisters still looking for equality seems counter-productive to the progressive movement. Seneca Falls, Selma and Stonewall were about money just as much as equality. When people have the same rights as white men have always had in our nation, then we have more economic equality. Women at one time were not permitted to own property-- and as thus they were married into families for financial security (anyone remember something called a dowry?) . Our equality wasn't just about being able to vote, it was about being able to be financially independent. It was about being able to choose who we fell in love with and how we could educate ourselves. The same can be said about the abolition movement and later the the 1960's civil rights movement. Brown V Board of education and Loving V Virginia are just two cases that come to mind. Today we see it with the marriage equality and gay rights. Here in this nation, in the year 2013, a person can still be fired for simply being gay. If that isn't a social economic issue, I don't know what is.
We will always lose as long as we are lead to believe that economic issues such as social security are separate from social/civil rights issues such as LGBT equality. It's precisely what Neoliberalism and the 'oligarchs' want. Let's stop doing their work for them. Don't believe me?
We have a lot of economic problems in this country, there is no question about this. We will always lose when the left does exactly what the oligarchs want.
Equality/civil rights is an economic issue; it can't be separated or else it will all fall apart. When it falls apart, we go backwards -- further into oligarchy. That is just what the GOP wants.
I don't.
Raine
That conversation comes back to me often. When I hear about states taking away voter rights, women losing the right to choose and the topic that is at the tip of everyones tongue these past few weeks, marriage equality I think about that conversation.
It came back to me again when I read this opinion piece, in particular - the beginning comments and the last comments.
Oligarchy Exists Inside Our Democracy
By Ed Walker, who writes regularly for Firedoglake as masaccio
Suddenly it looks like we are seeing political victories for progressives, on LGBT rights, on issues important to Hispanics, even occasionally on issues important to women. At the same time, we lose every single battle over economic issues. (snip)
The primary impact of this leverage in the hands of the minority is on economic issues. The oligarchy is just as divided as the rest of the population on social issues, like immigration, LGBT rights, women’s issues and similar non-financial matters. It turns out that, for example, some of the oligarchs have family or friends or are themselves LGBT. Their interests in wars and other kinds of issues are also divided. Because of that, democracy could theoretically work on those issues. It’s only those economic issues where the rich are on the same team, and they always win those battles.
And that’s exactly how things are working out. On matters of direct interest to the oligarchy, they win. You can have your silly laws about marriage or abortion as long as they get their way on money. It’s a lousy bargain, and it doesn’t have to be that way.
We don't need to blame the oligarchy when we have people on the left that are actually engaging in conquer and divide.They may not realize it, but it is exactly what they are doing. If we allow the left to define everything in economic terms versus social/civil rights-- as opposed to social/civil rights AND economic terms, together as one idea, we become more and more like our friend of the other aisle. To take it one step further, separating social issues from economic ones pushes us further and further into Neoliberalism -- some progressives (such as the author of the piece above) may not be aware of. If the desire to force the focus on economic issues (social security as one example) as separate from things like LGBT rights, women's rights, Immigration rights -- well, we are doing the work of the right and helping them carry out their agenda.
We lose when we stop seeing that equality and human rights ARE about economic issues. One cannot exist without the other, and to diminish that thought is literally doing the work of the oligarchs.
Suddenly it looks like we are seeing political victories for progressives, on LGBT rights, on issues important to Hispanics, even occasionally on issues important to women. At the same time, we lose every single battle over economic issues.
It appears that to whine about oligarchs is easier than to realize that there is no sudden here. People have been denied equality for a long time in this nation. LGBTers don't have equal access to social security STILL. There are 1138 things they don't have that straight people have. You'll have to forgive me, but to whine about this oligarchy when we have brothers and sisters still looking for equality seems counter-productive to the progressive movement. Seneca Falls, Selma and Stonewall were about money just as much as equality. When people have the same rights as white men have always had in our nation, then we have more economic equality. Women at one time were not permitted to own property-- and as thus they were married into families for financial security (anyone remember something called a dowry?) . Our equality wasn't just about being able to vote, it was about being able to be financially independent. It was about being able to choose who we fell in love with and how we could educate ourselves. The same can be said about the abolition movement and later the the 1960's civil rights movement. Brown V Board of education and Loving V Virginia are just two cases that come to mind. Today we see it with the marriage equality and gay rights. Here in this nation, in the year 2013, a person can still be fired for simply being gay. If that isn't a social economic issue, I don't know what is.
We will always lose as long as we are lead to believe that economic issues such as social security are separate from social/civil rights issues such as LGBT equality. It's precisely what Neoliberalism and the 'oligarchs' want. Let's stop doing their work for them. Don't believe me?
In fact, the scientists studying climate change and activists on the issue can explain the many ways that slowing the rise of the oceans WILL in fact help all of our families. To me, that moment highlights one of many ways that the GOP in 2012 is trying to talk about the economy and families while simultaneously promoting social policies that harm both.
Both New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell (he of the mandated transvaginal ultrasound) this year have insisted that attention being paid to social issues (read: abortion, contraception, gay marriage) are distractions from talking about economic issues.
We have a lot of economic problems in this country, there is no question about this. We will always lose when the left does exactly what the oligarchs want.
Equality/civil rights is an economic issue; it can't be separated or else it will all fall apart. When it falls apart, we go backwards -- further into oligarchy. That is just what the GOP wants.
I don't.
Raine
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 13:23:28
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 13:23:28
Morning. Quiet day thus far, who thought Good Friday would do that to the wheels o' commerce in Murrica?
Comment by 
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 13:42:14
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 13:42:14
Morning 
Comment by 
TriSec on 03/29/2013 13:54:49
TriSec on 03/29/2013 13:54:49
Morning, comrades.
Comment by 
Raine on 03/29/2013 13:58:32
Good morning !
Raine on 03/29/2013 13:58:32
Good morning !
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 14:04:21
TriSec on 03/29/2013 14:04:21
In other religious news, I am rather pleased that I finally seem to have memorized the Al-Fatiha, or "Lord's Prayer" of Islam. A very different feel than what Jesus taught.
Many more books to go. (Yes, there are some Koranic Scholars out there, called "Hafiz", who have memorized the entire thing.)
Surely there must be some Christians out there that have memorized the entire New Testament? But I digress...
Many more books to go. (Yes, there are some Koranic Scholars out there, called "Hafiz", who have memorized the entire thing.)
Surely there must be some Christians out there that have memorized the entire New Testament? But I digress...
Comment by 
BobR on 03/29/2013 14:08:41
I hate memorization - that's what the internet is for
BobR on 03/29/2013 14:08:41
Quote by TriSec:
In other religious news, I am rather pleased that I finally seem to have memorized the Al-Fatiha, or "Lord's Prayer" of Islam. A very different feel than what Jesus taught.
Many more books to go. (Yes, there are some Koranic Scholars out there, called "Hafiz", who have memorized the entire thing.)
Surely there must be some Christians out there that have memorized the entire New Testament? But I digress...
I hate memorization - that's what the internet is for
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 14:11:16
Raine on 03/29/2013 14:11:16
Blog is posted.
Please, for the Jesus, read it?
Please, for the Jesus, read it?
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:15:33
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:15:33
I'm reminded of the old saying "A rising tide lifts all boats" seems some in our own party have forgotten that.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 14:18:28
You know, I wanted to use that quote in the blog today, it was running thru my mind as I wrote -- and then, I got on a tear. 
And yes, this is truth -- "A rising tide lifts all boats"
Raine on 03/29/2013 14:18:28
Quote by wickedpam:
I'm reminded of the old saying "A rising tide lifts all boats" seems some in our own party have forgotten that.
And yes, this is truth -- "A rising tide lifts all boats"
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 14:21:10
TriSec on 03/29/2013 14:21:10
Schedule Note:
On Saturday, April 13, I shall be in Soutwest NH on the flanks of Mount Monadnock with Troop 250 for a summit attempt.
There is an opening for any aspiring author that morning...so how about showing the blog a little love?
(I do anticipate posting another trip report when I return - I expect this one to go much differently than Mt. Greylock back in October.)
On Saturday, April 13, I shall be in Soutwest NH on the flanks of Mount Monadnock with Troop 250 for a summit attempt.
There is an opening for any aspiring author that morning...so how about showing the blog a little love?
(I do anticipate posting another trip report when I return - I expect this one to go much differently than Mt. Greylock back in October.)
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:22:31
Its a phrasing that's been running though my brain for a while now (that and the story of the scorpion and the toad)
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:22:31
Quote by Raine:You know, I wanted to use that quote in the blog today, it was running thru my mind as I wrote -- and then, I got on a tear.Quote by wickedpam:
I'm reminded of the old saying "A rising tide lifts all boats" seems some in our own party have forgotten that.
And yes, this is truth -- "A rising tide lifts all boats"
Its a phrasing that's been running though my brain for a while now (that and the story of the scorpion and the toad)
Comment by BobR on 03/29/2013 14:24:10
BobR on 03/29/2013 14:24:10
I am reminded of a conversation Raine and I had with the head of the Atlanta Area Democrats (a grass roots organization). She said that Georgia Democrats should not discuss abortion, because it was a losing argument in the South.
We both disagreed, because you cannot really compartmentalize rights, equality, and justice and look at each one as a separate issue. They are all part of the same fabric of humanity.
We both disagreed, because you cannot really compartmentalize rights, equality, and justice and look at each one as a separate issue. They are all part of the same fabric of humanity.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 14:31:38
This is why I wish you would write a little more for the 4F --
You know, writing the blog today, I was thinking about the Occupy movement as well. You all know I wrote of it with some skepticism.
Today's blog was a bit of an epiphany for me, as something always seemed off to me, and now I know why, and I think writing it down helped.
As an example, If we are to go after the banks, we need to incorparate social justice as well as economic justice. As I wrote this, I was realizing that no protest movement has succeeded as long as it sat in a bubble. Lafayette square came to mind and I wrote about that last year.
Occupy is now succeeding because it is now inclusive of social justice as well. Originally its message (for me at least) was about going after the oligarchs and the banksters -- and it was failing in messaging that it was FOR the people as opposed to being against something.
It evolved and while it's not as in your face, it is doing very good things.
I hope that makes sense.
Raine on 03/29/2013 14:31:38
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:You know, I wanted to use that quote in the blog today, it was running thru my mind as I wrote -- and then, I got on a tear.Quote by wickedpam:
I'm reminded of the old saying "A rising tide lifts all boats" seems some in our own party have forgotten that.
And yes, this is truth -- "A rising tide lifts all boats"
Its a phrasing that's been running though my brain for a while now (that and the story of the scorpion and the toad)
You know, writing the blog today, I was thinking about the Occupy movement as well. You all know I wrote of it with some skepticism.
Today's blog was a bit of an epiphany for me, as something always seemed off to me, and now I know why, and I think writing it down helped.
As an example, If we are to go after the banks, we need to incorparate social justice as well as economic justice. As I wrote this, I was realizing that no protest movement has succeeded as long as it sat in a bubble. Lafayette square came to mind and I wrote about that last year.
Occupy is now succeeding because it is now inclusive of social justice as well. Originally its message (for me at least) was about going after the oligarchs and the banksters -- and it was failing in messaging that it was FOR the people as opposed to being against something.
It evolved and while it's not as in your face, it is doing very good things.
I hope that makes sense.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 14:42:12
I had forgetten that conversation.
And yes, this was our disagreement with her. We do ourselves a great disservice as Democrats when we do this. This ultimately is what creates so called conservadems <--- A title given from progressives I suspect. -- etc. and as thus fractures party unity.
I would present that we do have people who are more and less liberal than myself that I consider allies. We would do ourselves well to not alienate each other. Pitting Social/cival rights issues against economic issues is one big way that this we do this. I don't like it.
That said it is more than about party affiliation, it serves to divide us as a nation. It's really quite interesting because I am quite convinced that the power brokers -- the wealthy -- the one percent would like for this to continue.
Let me put it clearly, if I know someone who is against marriage equality, I believe they are entitled to their opinion. I may disagree (MAY? NO, I totally disagree) but the day they actively fight to prevent people from having the rights they are entitled to, I take issue.
Just a few thoughts off the top of the noggin.
Raine on 03/29/2013 14:42:12
Quote by BobR:
I am reminded of a conversation Raine and I had with the head of the Atlanta Area Democrats (a grass roots organization). She said that Georgia Democrats should not discuss abortion, because it was a losing argument in the South.
We both disagreed, because you cannot really compartmentalize rights, equality, and justice and look at each one as a separate issue. They are all part of the same fabric of humanity.
And yes, this was our disagreement with her. We do ourselves a great disservice as Democrats when we do this. This ultimately is what creates so called conservadems <--- A title given from progressives I suspect. -- etc. and as thus fractures party unity.
I would present that we do have people who are more and less liberal than myself that I consider allies. We would do ourselves well to not alienate each other. Pitting Social/cival rights issues against economic issues is one big way that this we do this. I don't like it.
That said it is more than about party affiliation, it serves to divide us as a nation. It's really quite interesting because I am quite convinced that the power brokers -- the wealthy -- the one percent would like for this to continue.
Let me put it clearly, if I know someone who is against marriage equality, I believe they are entitled to their opinion. I may disagree (MAY? NO, I totally disagree) but the day they actively fight to prevent people from having the rights they are entitled to, I take issue.
Just a few thoughts off the top of the noggin.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:48:14
I've had a bout of writer's block, heck pretty much anything creative block really, for a while (I'm my own worst enemy in tearing everything apart lately). But I have been thinking of pulling something together. Just have to do it in a timely manner
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:48:14
Quote by Raine:This is why I wish you would write a little more for the 4F --Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:You know, I wanted to use that quote in the blog today, it was running thru my mind as I wrote -- and then, I got on a tear.Quote by wickedpam:
I'm reminded of the old saying "A rising tide lifts all boats" seems some in our own party have forgotten that.
And yes, this is truth -- "A rising tide lifts all boats"
Its a phrasing that's been running though my brain for a while now (that and the story of the scorpion and the toad)
You know, writing the blog today, I was thinking about the Occupy movement as well. You all know I wrote of it with some skepticism.
Today's blog was a bit of an epiphany for me, as something always seemed off to me, and now I know why, and I think writing it down helped.
As an example, If we are to go after the banks, we need to incorparate social justice as well as economic justice. As I wrote this, I was realizing that no protest movement has succeeded as long as it sat in a bubble. Lafayette square came to mind and I wrote about that last year.
Occupy is now succeeding because it is now inclusive of social justice as well. Originally its message (for me at least) was about going after the oligarchs and the banksters -- and it was failing in messaging that it was FOR the people as opposed to being against something.
It evolved and while it's not as in your face, it is doing very good things.
I hope that makes sense.
I've had a bout of writer's block, heck pretty much anything creative block really, for a while (I'm my own worst enemy in tearing everything apart lately). But I have been thinking of pulling something together. Just have to do it in a timely manner
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 14:48:37
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 14:48:37
For me economic and social justice go hand in in hand.
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 14:49:49
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 14:49:49
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:This is why I wish you would write a little more for the 4F --Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:You know, I wanted to use that quote in the blog today, it was running thru my mind as I wrote -- and then, I got on a tear.Quote by wickedpam:
I'm reminded of the old saying "A rising tide lifts all boats" seems some in our own party have forgotten that.
And yes, this is truth -- "A rising tide lifts all boats"
Its a phrasing that's been running though my brain for a while now (that and the story of the scorpion and the toad)
You know, writing the blog today, I was thinking about the Occupy movement as well. You all know I wrote of it with some skepticism.
Today's blog was a bit of an epiphany for me, as something always seemed off to me, and now I know why, and I think writing it down helped.
As an example, If we are to go after the banks, we need to incorparate social justice as well as economic justice. As I wrote this, I was realizing that no protest movement has succeeded as long as it sat in a bubble. Lafayette square came to mind and I wrote about that last year.
Occupy is now succeeding because it is now inclusive of social justice as well. Originally its message (for me at least) was about going after the oligarchs and the banksters -- and it was failing in messaging that it was FOR the people as opposed to being against something.
It evolved and while it's not as in your face, it is doing very good things.
I hope that makes sense.
I've had a bout of writer's block, heck pretty much anything creative block really, for a while (I'm my own worst enemy in tearing everything apart lately). But I have been thinking of pulling something together. Just have to do it in a timely manner
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 14:53:01
TriSec on 03/29/2013 14:53:01
It's Dr. King that addresses the justice issue most presciently.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
I don't think it matters on the issue - we need to fight for ALL causes, whether socioeconomic, civil rights, or whatever it is that we believe in.
The other concept is the "slippery slope". If it's OK to do this one small thing, what's the next one that's going to go away. (Like flying - I wrote a blog about that long ago, too. Every time something happens, we are no longer allowed to do that aboard an airplane.)
Where does it stop? And who is going to pull the brake handle?
Politicians, especially the powerful ones, are far too vested to their special interests. They will do what it takes to keep their handlers happy, and if some rights are trampled along the way...well, you can't mess with the cash flow, can you?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
I don't think it matters on the issue - we need to fight for ALL causes, whether socioeconomic, civil rights, or whatever it is that we believe in.
The other concept is the "slippery slope". If it's OK to do this one small thing, what's the next one that's going to go away. (Like flying - I wrote a blog about that long ago, too. Every time something happens, we are no longer allowed to do that aboard an airplane.)
Where does it stop? And who is going to pull the brake handle?
Politicians, especially the powerful ones, are far too vested to their special interests. They will do what it takes to keep their handlers happy, and if some rights are trampled along the way...well, you can't mess with the cash flow, can you?
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:56:01
told ya, I'm the prude and stick in the mud in my fam - not sure I'd be much help
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:56:01
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:This is why I wish you would write a little more for the 4F --Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:You know, I wanted to use that quote in the blog today, it was running thru my mind as I wrote -- and then, I got on a tear.Quote by wickedpam:
I'm reminded of the old saying "A rising tide lifts all boats" seems some in our own party have forgotten that.
And yes, this is truth -- "A rising tide lifts all boats"
Its a phrasing that's been running though my brain for a while now (that and the story of the scorpion and the toad)
You know, writing the blog today, I was thinking about the Occupy movement as well. You all know I wrote of it with some skepticism.
Today's blog was a bit of an epiphany for me, as something always seemed off to me, and now I know why, and I think writing it down helped.
As an example, If we are to go after the banks, we need to incorparate social justice as well as economic justice. As I wrote this, I was realizing that no protest movement has succeeded as long as it sat in a bubble. Lafayette square came to mind and I wrote about that last year.
Occupy is now succeeding because it is now inclusive of social justice as well. Originally its message (for me at least) was about going after the oligarchs and the banksters -- and it was failing in messaging that it was FOR the people as opposed to being against something.
It evolved and while it's not as in your face, it is doing very good things.
I hope that makes sense.
I've had a bout of writer's block, heck pretty much anything creative block really, for a while (I'm my own worst enemy in tearing everything apart lately). But I have been thinking of pulling something together. Just have to do it in a timely manner
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
told ya, I'm the prude and stick in the mud in my fam - not sure I'd be much help
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 14:56:41
PHRASING!!!
Raine on 03/29/2013 14:56:41
Quote by Mondobubba:
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 14:58:58
I think with the events of this week, we are seeing a few people people the brake handle.
Raine on 03/29/2013 14:58:58
Quote by TriSec:
It's Dr. King that addresses the justice issue most presciently.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
I don't think it matters on the issue - we need to fight for ALL causes, whether socioeconomic, civil rights, or whatever it is that we believe in.
The other concept is the "slippery slope". If it's OK to do this one small thing, what's the next one that's going to go away. (Like flying - I wrote a blog about that long ago, too. Every time something happens, we are no longer allowed to do that aboard an airplane.)
Where does it stop? And who is going to pull the brake handle?
Politicians, especially the powerful ones, are far too vested to their special interests. They will do what it takes to keep their handlers happy, and if some rights are trampled along the way...well, you can't mess with the cash flow, can you?
I think with the events of this week, we are seeing a few people people the brake handle.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:59:01
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 14:59:01
You know I really am offended when right wingers say all liberal don't believe in God. It really hurts my heart that they think that.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 03/29/2013 15:03:43
trojanrabbit on 03/29/2013 15:03:43
Comment by 
Scoopster on 03/29/2013 15:03:53
Scoopster on 03/29/2013 15:03:53
Goooooood morning all & Happy Gooooood Fridee! 
drinking: 
Oh goodness..
drinking: Quote by Raine:PHRASING!!!Quote by Mondobubba:
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
Oh goodness..
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 15:04:28
It is hurtful. I find it offensive as well.
It hurts to know a segment of society think that some believers are not worthy of the god as they interpret it. It goes further: Some right wingers believe that liberals are incapable of believing in God -- That is to me, akin to saying that some people are not fully human.
Raine on 03/29/2013 15:04:28
Quote by wickedpam:
You know I really am offended when right wingers say all liberal don't believe in God. It really hurts my heart that they think that.
It hurts to know a segment of society think that some believers are not worthy of the god as they interpret it. It goes further: Some right wingers believe that liberals are incapable of believing in God -- That is to me, akin to saying that some people are not fully human.
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:05:16
Grunt.
I can go to Mosque today here in college-town Worcester, then go to Temple on the campus of Brandeis University (Waltham) tomorrow, and then to the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in South Boston this Sunday, and they'll all be as full as our counterparts in Jackson, Mississippi. (Well, except the Mosque, that doesn't exist. :-P )
Like Patriotism, they have no monopoly on deities. But I wouldn't want to follow the particular brand of deity they chose - he isn't my God.
TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:05:16
Quote by wickedpam:
You know I really am offended when right wingers say all liberal don't believe in God. It really hurts my heart that they think that.
Grunt.
I can go to Mosque today here in college-town Worcester, then go to Temple on the campus of Brandeis University (Waltham) tomorrow, and then to the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in South Boston this Sunday, and they'll all be as full as our counterparts in Jackson, Mississippi. (Well, except the Mosque, that doesn't exist. :-P )
Like Patriotism, they have no monopoly on deities. But I wouldn't want to follow the particular brand of deity they chose - he isn't my God.
When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Apostle of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Apostle, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 15:08:16
What? Lil Harlots, the line of slutty tween and teen lingerie I want you, Mala and to myself found.
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 15:08:16
Quote by Raine:PHRASING!!!Quote by Mondobubba:
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
What? Lil Harlots, the line of slutty tween and teen lingerie I want you, Mala and to myself found.
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 15:08:56
I saw then yesterday. Um fuck you very much WalMart.
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 15:08:56
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Yup, WalMart. I want someone that just walks into your store delivering the shit I stupidly bought from WalMart.
I saw then yesterday. Um fuck you very much WalMart.
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:11:09
Read that myself...I'd love to see how the customer service and delivery complaints would be handled.
TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:11:09
Quote by Mondobubba:
I saw then yesterday. Um fuck you very much WalMart.
Read that myself...I'd love to see how the customer service and delivery complaints would be handled.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 03/29/2013 15:14:38
You mean just stuff that isn't getting delivered, or the random ne'er-do-well that uses the opportunity to case the joint that he's delivering to? Or the other random pervert.....
I guess their response would be why should you expect anything more than lousy service when you could have just come to WalMart and gotten the same thing?
trojanrabbit on 03/29/2013 15:14:38
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
I saw then yesterday. Um fuck you very much WalMart.
Read that myself...I'd love to see how the customer service and delivery complaints would be handled.
You mean just stuff that isn't getting delivered, or the random ne'er-do-well that uses the opportunity to case the joint that he's delivering to? Or the other random pervert.....
I guess their response would be why should you expect anything more than lousy service when you could have just come to WalMart and gotten the same thing?
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:14:58
I may not there their type of Christian but I do believe in God and am what I consider rather spiritual in that I'm open to all roads in faith.
I've been part of many types of churches and I've found that their are sect that believe themselves better then others. I've always believed everyone is equal in the eyes of God we just all find different paths to Love.
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:14:58
Quote by Raine:It is hurtful. I find it offensive as well.Quote by wickedpam:
You know I really am offended when right wingers say all liberal don't believe in God. It really hurts my heart that they think that.
It hurts to know a segment of society think that some believers are not worthy of the god as they interpret it. It goes further: Some right wingers believe that liberals are incapable of believing in God -- That is to me, akin to saying that some people are not fully human.
I may not there their type of Christian but I do believe in God and am what I consider rather spiritual in that I'm open to all roads in faith.
I've been part of many types of churches and I've found that their are sect that believe themselves better then others. I've always believed everyone is equal in the eyes of God we just all find different paths to Love.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:17:57
you know I think that its looked at a little different in the south. They don't look at you funny if you're liberal and religious in the north. In the deeper parts of the south they think you have two heads or something - at least that's been my experience.
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:17:57
Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
You know I really am offended when right wingers say all liberal don't believe in God. It really hurts my heart that they think that.
Grunt.
I can go to Mosque today here in college-town Worcester, then go to Temple on the campus of Brandeis University (Waltham) tomorrow, and then to the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in South Boston this Sunday, and they'll all be as full as our counterparts in Jackson, Mississippi. (Well, except the Mosque, that doesn't exist. :-P )
Like Patriotism, they have no monopoly on deities. But I wouldn't want to follow the particular brand of deity they chose - he isn't my God.When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Apostle of Allah." Yea, Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Apostle, and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
you know I think that its looked at a little different in the south. They don't look at you funny if you're liberal and religious in the north. In the deeper parts of the south they think you have two heads or something - at least that's been my experience.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:18:49
I propose that Vel be included in this venture.
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:18:49
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:PHRASING!!!Quote by Mondobubba:
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
What? Lil Harlots, the line of slutty tween and teen lingerie I want you, Mala and to myself found.
I propose that Vel be included in this venture.
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:20:33
An online acquantance of mine is a Christian minister. He's horrified that I have "turned my back on Christ" and have chosen to follow Mohammed.
I've had this discussion with him before...I"m of the opinion that it's all the same God, we just follow different prophets, and no one book or leader has a monopoly on the path to Grace.
TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:20:33
Quote by wickedpam:
I may not there their type of Christian but I do believe in God and am what I consider rather spiritual in that I'm open to all roads in faith.
I've been part of many types of churches and I've found that their are sect that believe themselves better then others. I've always believed everyone is equal in the eyes of God we just all find different paths to Love.
An online acquantance of mine is a Christian minister. He's horrified that I have "turned my back on Christ" and have chosen to follow Mohammed.
I've had this discussion with him before...I"m of the opinion that it's all the same God, we just follow different prophets, and no one book or leader has a monopoly on the path to Grace.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:26:26
It seems strange to me that people of the 3 major religions would be so abrasive to each other since all three are pretty intertwined not just in the region of the world in which they were born but in their teachings and books.
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:26:26
Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
I may not there their type of Christian but I do believe in God and am what I consider rather spiritual in that I'm open to all roads in faith.
I've been part of many types of churches and I've found that their are sect that believe themselves better then others. I've always believed everyone is equal in the eyes of God we just all find different paths to Love.
An online acquantance of mine is a Christian minister. He's horrified that I have "turned my back on Christ" and have chosen to follow Mohammed.
I've had this discussion with him before...I"m of the opinion that it's all the same God, we just follow different prophets, and no one book or leader has a monopoly on the path to Grace.
It seems strange to me that people of the 3 major religions would be so abrasive to each other since all three are pretty intertwined not just in the region of the world in which they were born but in their teachings and books.
Comment by 
clintster on 03/29/2013 15:30:20
As a God-believing liberal, I have to say that it is a struggle dealing with believers on the other side of the political spectrum. There are friends of mine who I have known for over 20 years who have been posting up their own responses to the red "=" statuses, citing Leviticus and Romans.
I have thought of countering them with the arguments about the other mortal restrictions of Leviticus (blended fabric, shellfish, stoning raped virgins). It genuinely hurts me to see these people, these friends and relatives, regard GLBT folk (some of whom they have broken bread with and regard as friends) are lesser than them and thus undeserving of making a commitment to the one they love.
I feel that I should challenge them to go to the gay and lesbian friends they know, so they can tell them to their faces that they are "abominations" and thus can never be married even if they have been with their partner for decades. I want them to do this in person so they can deal with the reaction and the consequences of making this statement in real time. It's one thing to put up an infographic or Facebook statement placing a blanket negative status to a group of people (I admit I have been guilty of that with conservatives). It's quite another to say those same things to someone face-to-face.
Damn. I started talking about the conservatroll argument that all liberals hate God, and wound up going on a tangent. Sorry, y'all. It's just eating away at me.
clintster on 03/29/2013 15:30:20
Quote by Raine:It is hurtful. I find it offensive as well.Quote by wickedpam:
You know I really am offended when right wingers say all liberal don't believe in God. It really hurts my heart that they think that.
It hurts to know a segment of society think that some believers are not worthy of the god as they interpret it. It goes further: Some right wingers believe that liberals are incapable of believing in God -- That is to me, akin to saying that some people are not fully human.
As a God-believing liberal, I have to say that it is a struggle dealing with believers on the other side of the political spectrum. There are friends of mine who I have known for over 20 years who have been posting up their own responses to the red "=" statuses, citing Leviticus and Romans.
I have thought of countering them with the arguments about the other mortal restrictions of Leviticus (blended fabric, shellfish, stoning raped virgins). It genuinely hurts me to see these people, these friends and relatives, regard GLBT folk (some of whom they have broken bread with and regard as friends) are lesser than them and thus undeserving of making a commitment to the one they love.
I feel that I should challenge them to go to the gay and lesbian friends they know, so they can tell them to their faces that they are "abominations" and thus can never be married even if they have been with their partner for decades. I want them to do this in person so they can deal with the reaction and the consequences of making this statement in real time. It's one thing to put up an infographic or Facebook statement placing a blanket negative status to a group of people (I admit I have been guilty of that with conservatives). It's quite another to say those same things to someone face-to-face.
Damn. I started talking about the conservatroll argument that all liberals hate God, and wound up going on a tangent. Sorry, y'all. It's just eating away at me.
Comment by clintster on 03/29/2013 15:31:10
That's why they're called the Abrahamic religions (or People of the Book).
clintster on 03/29/2013 15:31:10
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
I may not there their type of Christian but I do believe in God and am what I consider rather spiritual in that I'm open to all roads in faith.
I've been part of many types of churches and I've found that their are sect that believe themselves better then others. I've always believed everyone is equal in the eyes of God we just all find different paths to Love.
An online acquantance of mine is a Christian minister. He's horrified that I have "turned my back on Christ" and have chosen to follow Mohammed.
I've had this discussion with him before...I"m of the opinion that it's all the same God, we just follow different prophets, and no one book or leader has a monopoly on the path to Grace.
It seems strange to me that people of the 3 major religions would be so abrasive to each other since all three are pretty intertwined not just in the region of the world in which they were born but in their teachings and books.
That's why they're called the Abrahamic religions (or People of the Book).
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 15:32:47
there would be marketing benefit to NOT use the prase creative juices running while mentioning Lil Harlots
Surely you HAD to know that, Mondo.
Raine on 03/29/2013 15:32:47
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:PHRASING!!!Quote by Mondobubba:
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
What? Lil Harlots, the line of slutty tween and teen lingerie I want you, Mala and to myself found.
Surely you HAD to know that, Mondo.
Comment by clintster on 03/29/2013 15:35:31
clintster on 03/29/2013 15:35:31
In other news, Richard Griffiths, who played Uncle Vernon in the Harry Potter films has passed away.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 15:36:31
It's fine -- I think it totally apropos.
Raine on 03/29/2013 15:36:31
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:It is hurtful. I find it offensive as well.Quote by wickedpam:
You know I really am offended when right wingers say all liberal don't believe in God. It really hurts my heart that they think that.
It hurts to know a segment of society think that some believers are not worthy of the god as they interpret it. It goes further: Some right wingers believe that liberals are incapable of believing in God -- That is to me, akin to saying that some people are not fully human.
As a God-believing liberal, I have to say that it is a struggle dealing with believers on the other side of the political spectrum. There are friends of mine who I have known for over 20 years who have been posting up their own responses to the red "=" statuses, citing Leviticus and Romans.
I have thought of countering them with the arguments about the other mortal restrictions of Leviticus (blended fabric, shellfish, stoning raped virgins). It genuinely hurts me to see these people, these friends and relatives, regard GLBT folk (some of whom they have broken bread with and regard as friends) are lesser than them and thus undeserving of making a commitment to the one they love.
I feel that I should challenge them to go to the gay and lesbian friends they know, so they can tell them to their faces that they are "abominations" and thus can never be married even if they have been with their partner for decades. I want them to do this in person so they can deal with the reaction and the consequences of making this statement in real time. It's one thing to put up an infographic or Facebook statement placing a blanket negative status to a group of people (I admit I have been guilty of that with conservatives). It's quite another to say those same things to someone face-to-face.
Damn. I started talking about the conservatroll argument that all liberals hate God, and wound up going on a tangent. Sorry, y'all. It's just eating away at me.
It's fine -- I think it totally apropos.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 15:38:39
I would propose that it shouldn't be strange at all. When we allow others to define our spiritual beliefs -- be it Christian, Judaism or Islam -- then we allow others to define us.
Raine on 03/29/2013 15:38:39
Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
I may not there their type of Christian but I do believe in God and am what I consider rather spiritual in that I'm open to all roads in faith.
I've been part of many types of churches and I've found that their are sect that believe themselves better then others. I've always believed everyone is equal in the eyes of God we just all find different paths to Love.
An online acquantance of mine is a Christian minister. He's horrified that I have "turned my back on Christ" and have chosen to follow Mohammed.
I've had this discussion with him before...I"m of the opinion that it's all the same God, we just follow different prophets, and no one book or leader has a monopoly on the path to Grace.
It seems strange to me that people of the 3 major religions would be so abrasive to each other since all three are pretty intertwined not just in the region of the world in which they were born but in their teachings and books.
That's why they're called the Abrahamic religions (or People of the Book).
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:39:01
Our gathering this Sunday is going to be another one of those mish-mosh affairs.
My wife's cousin is hosting, and I shouldn't have to tell you about Cubans and Roman Catholicism.
Our cousin's best friend is Jewish.
And a younger cousin will be present, and she married a Muslim.
If we tried this kind of gathering in some places in the world, we'd all be killed.
TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:39:01
Quote by clintster:
That's why they're called the Abrahamic religions (or People of the Book).
Our gathering this Sunday is going to be another one of those mish-mosh affairs.
My wife's cousin is hosting, and I shouldn't have to tell you about Cubans and Roman Catholicism.
Our cousin's best friend is Jewish.
And a younger cousin will be present, and she married a Muslim.
If we tried this kind of gathering in some places in the world, we'd all be killed.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:40:00
very true
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:40:00
Quote by Raine:I would propose that it shouldn't be strange at all. When we allow others to define our spiritual beliefs -- be it Christian, Judaism or Islam -- then we allow others to define us.Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
I may not there their type of Christian but I do believe in God and am what I consider rather spiritual in that I'm open to all roads in faith.
I've been part of many types of churches and I've found that their are sect that believe themselves better then others. I've always believed everyone is equal in the eyes of God we just all find different paths to Love.
An online acquantance of mine is a Christian minister. He's horrified that I have "turned my back on Christ" and have chosen to follow Mohammed.
I've had this discussion with him before...I"m of the opinion that it's all the same God, we just follow different prophets, and no one book or leader has a monopoly on the path to Grace.
It seems strange to me that people of the 3 major religions would be so abrasive to each other since all three are pretty intertwined not just in the region of the world in which they were born but in their teachings and books.
That's why they're called the Abrahamic religions (or People of the Book).
very true
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:41:42
TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:41:42
Jesus in the Qu'ran.
Musa (or Moses) also figures prominently in many sections of the Book as well. (I"m reading the passage where his staff turns into a serpent right now.)
I"ve said it before, the number of instances where the Bible and the Qu'ran are the same, and indeed often word-for-word, astonishes me every time I run across it.
Musa (or Moses) also figures prominently in many sections of the Book as well. (I"m reading the passage where his staff turns into a serpent right now.)
I"ve said it before, the number of instances where the Bible and the Qu'ran are the same, and indeed often word-for-word, astonishes me every time I run across it.
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 15:44:08
Damn you! You ruined my innocent act! :fristy heels, vapors, fainting couch:
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 15:44:08
Quote by Raine:there would be marketing benefit to NOT use the prase creative juices running while mentioning Lil HarlotsQuote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:PHRASING!!!Quote by Mondobubba:
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
What? Lil Harlots, the line of slutty tween and teen lingerie I want you, Mala and to myself found.
Surely you HAD to know that, Mondo.
Damn you! You ruined my innocent act! :fristy heels, vapors, fainting couch:
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:46:25
TriSec on 03/29/2013 15:46:25
And old habits die hard...it's Good Friday, and the cafe downstairs makes a wing-dinger of a fried fish sandwich. I've been looking forward to lunch today all week.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:47:10
Although I'm usually confused by Christians who solely want to use the Old Testament when really we're supposed to use the New Testament, you know that book that gives us the guy in which we base Christian beliefs on
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:47:10
Quote by TriSec:
Jesus in the Qu'ran.
Musa (or Moses) also figures prominently in many sections of the Book as well. (I"m reading the passage where his staff turns into a serpent right now.)
I"ve said it before, the number of instances where the Bible and the Qu'ran are the same, and indeed often word-for-word, astonishes me every time I run across it.
Although I'm usually confused by Christians who solely want to use the Old Testament when really we're supposed to use the New Testament, you know that book that gives us the guy in which we base Christian beliefs on
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 15:47:25
As a person who practices no organized religion -- I think I fall more into a deist realm -- Why are you finding yourself drawn to Islam and away from Christianity?
Raine on 03/29/2013 15:47:25
Quote by TriSec:
Jesus in the Qu'ran.
Musa (or Moses) also figures prominently in many sections of the Book as well. (I"m reading the passage where his staff turns into a serpent right now.)
I"ve said it before, the number of instances where the Bible and the Qu'ran are the same, and indeed often word-for-word, astonishes me every time I run across it.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 15:50:38
Now, this is something else that wonder -- Will (who is celebrating passover) is jewish -- doesn't his religion rely upon the old testament? I ask this because sometimes I wonder of liberal christians are using the old testament to counter RW'rs and I honestly wonder if that is a bit of a slap in the face of the jewish people.
See... I don't truly understand organized religion.
That said I do believe in a spirituality -- could be God.
Raine on 03/29/2013 15:50:38
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:
Jesus in the Qu'ran.
Musa (or Moses) also figures prominently in many sections of the Book as well. (I"m reading the passage where his staff turns into a serpent right now.)
I"ve said it before, the number of instances where the Bible and the Qu'ran are the same, and indeed often word-for-word, astonishes me every time I run across it.
Although I'm usually confused by Christians who solely want to use the Old Testament when really we're supposed to use the New Testament, you know that book that gives us the guy in which we base Christian beliefs on
See... I don't truly understand organized religion.
That said I do believe in a spirituality -- could be God.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 15:51:17
Is it Halal?
Raine on 03/29/2013 15:51:17
Quote by TriSec:
And old habits die hard...it's Good Friday, and the cafe downstairs makes a wing-dinger of a fried fish sandwich. I've been looking forward to lunch today all week.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 15:52:26
Yeah... I ruined it... 
dude, that was shooting fish in a barrel.
Raine on 03/29/2013 15:52:26
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:there would be marketing benefit to NOT use the prase creative juices running while mentioning Lil HarlotsQuote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:PHRASING!!!Quote by Mondobubba:
I think if we get Lil Harlots up and running, you will get the focus you need to get the creative juices running.
What? Lil Harlots, the line of slutty tween and teen lingerie I want you, Mala and to myself found.
Surely you HAD to know that, Mondo.
Damn you! You ruined my innocent act! :fristy heels, vapors, fainting couch:
dude, that was shooting fish in a barrel.
Comment by Scoopster on 03/29/2013 15:55:13
Nice.. I'm lookin' forward to a nice fish & chips platter after work. Not necessarily because of the day's fasting restriction either.
Besides I already had my daily bacon.
Scoopster on 03/29/2013 15:55:13
Quote by TriSec:
And old habits die hard...it's Good Friday, and the cafe downstairs makes a wing-dinger of a fried fish sandwich. I've been looking forward to lunch today all week.
Nice.. I'm lookin' forward to a nice fish & chips platter after work. Not necessarily because of the day's fasting restriction either.
Besides I already had my daily bacon.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:56:19
The Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament, no Jesus but we get the classic Bible stories that Charlton Heston starred in ;)
New Testament is the teaching of Jesus and his followers, not Heston movies.
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 15:56:19
Quote by Raine:Now, this is something else that wonder -- Will (who is celebrating passover) is jewish -- doesn't his religion rely upon the old testament? I ask this because sometimes I wonder of liberal christians are using the old testament to counter RW'rs and I honestly wonder if that is a bit of a slap in the face of the jewish people.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:
Jesus in the Qu'ran.
Musa (or Moses) also figures prominently in many sections of the Book as well. (I"m reading the passage where his staff turns into a serpent right now.)
I"ve said it before, the number of instances where the Bible and the Qu'ran are the same, and indeed often word-for-word, astonishes me every time I run across it.
Although I'm usually confused by Christians who solely want to use the Old Testament when really we're supposed to use the New Testament, you know that book that gives us the guy in which we base Christian beliefs on
See... I don't truly understand organized religion.
That said I do believe in a spirituality -- could be God.
The Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament, no Jesus but we get the classic Bible stories that Charlton Heston starred in ;)
New Testament is the teaching of Jesus and his followers, not Heston movies.
Comment by clintster on 03/29/2013 15:58:50
"Eat any fish that has scales, and do not eat what does not have scales."
(Imam Baqir a.s) [al-Kolayni, al-Kaafi, vol.6 p. 219]
clintster on 03/29/2013 15:58:50
Quote by Raine:Is it Halal?Quote by TriSec:
And old habits die hard...it's Good Friday, and the cafe downstairs makes a wing-dinger of a fried fish sandwich. I've been looking forward to lunch today all week.
"Eat any fish that has scales, and do not eat what does not have scales."
(Imam Baqir a.s) [al-Kolayni, al-Kaafi, vol.6 p. 219]
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 16:00:25
I wasn't aware that it was only the first 5 books. That changes a lot for me.
Raine on 03/29/2013 16:00:25
Quote by wickedpam:
The Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament, no Jesus but we get the classic Bible stories that Charlton Heston starred in ;)
New Testament is the teaching of Jesus and his followers, not Heston movies.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 16:01:34
Raine on 03/29/2013 16:01:34
In totally separate news, I'm sorry to learn that Talk of the Nation is ending. 
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 16:02:24
Well, for Tri's sake, I hope it's not catfish!
Raine on 03/29/2013 16:02:24
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Is it Halal?Quote by TriSec:
And old habits die hard...it's Good Friday, and the cafe downstairs makes a wing-dinger of a fried fish sandwich. I've been looking forward to lunch today all week.
"Eat any fish that has scales, and do not eat what does not have scales."
(Imam Baqir a.s) [al-Kolayni, al-Kaafi, vol.6 p. 219]
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 16:03:20
Will would be the person to get a definitive answer, my knowledge of Judaism is rather limited and a little skewed as my aunt is Messianic Jewish.
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 16:03:20
Quote by Raine:I wasn't aware that it was only the first 5 books. That changes a lot for me.Quote by wickedpam:
The Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament, no Jesus but we get the classic Bible stories that Charlton Heston starred in ;)
New Testament is the teaching of Jesus and his followers, not Heston movies.
Will would be the person to get a definitive answer, my knowledge of Judaism is rather limited and a little skewed as my aunt is Messianic Jewish.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 16:03:30
Also:
Looks like Tri doesn't have to worry about that old habit. He is in the safe zone.
Raine on 03/29/2013 16:03:30
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:Is it Halal?Quote by TriSec:
And old habits die hard...it's Good Friday, and the cafe downstairs makes a wing-dinger of a fried fish sandwich. I've been looking forward to lunch today all week.
"Eat any fish that has scales, and do not eat what does not have scales."
(Imam Baqir a.s) [al-Kolayni, al-Kaafi, vol.6 p. 219]
Looks like Tri doesn't have to worry about that old habit. He is in the safe zone.
Comment by clintster on 03/29/2013 16:04:52
WhatwhatWHAT? Whaddaya mean "ending"? I've been depending on that show to get me through the early afternoon. What will I do without Political Junkies Wednesday? SCIENCE FRIDAY? NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo
:slowly rocking back and forth in the corner, clutching his knees:
clintster on 03/29/2013 16:04:52
Quote by Raine:
In totally separate news, I'm sorry to learn that Talk of the Nation is ending.
WhatwhatWHAT? Whaddaya mean "ending"? I've been depending on that show to get me through the early afternoon. What will I do without Political Junkies Wednesday? SCIENCE FRIDAY? NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo
:slowly rocking back and forth in the corner, clutching his knees:
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 16:08:50
Sorry clint... it is over in June.
<-- I suspect Mondo is gonna need one too...
Raine on 03/29/2013 16:08:50
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
In totally separate news, I'm sorry to learn that Talk of the Nation is ending.
WhatwhatWHAT? Whaddaya mean "ending"? I've been depending on that show to get me through the early afternoon. What will I do without Political Junkies Wednesday? SCIENCE FRIDAY? NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo
:slowly rocking back and forth in the corner, clutching his knees:
<-- I suspect Mondo is gonna need one too... The afternoon call-in show "Talk of the Nation" will end its 21-year run on NPR June 30.
The network made the programming announcement on Friday. It's encouraging stations to replace the show with "Here and Now," a news magazine produced at WBUR in Boston.
"NPR has concluded that it can best serve public radio by concentrating its resources on produced news programming with reported stories and hosted interviews that appeal to listeners on radio and emerging digital platforms," NPR programming executives said in an email. The network will continue to produce "Science Friday."
Comment by clintster on 03/29/2013 16:10:25
OK, after reading the NYT article about it, I'm slightly mollified. NPR is urging its affiliates to supplant it with "Here and Now", and they're keeping "Science Fridays".
Backing away from the ledge now.
clintster on 03/29/2013 16:10:25
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
In totally separate news, I'm sorry to learn that Talk of the Nation is ending.
WhatwhatWHAT? Whaddaya mean "ending"? I've been depending on that show to get me through the early afternoon. What will I do without Political Junkies Wednesday? SCIENCE FRIDAY? NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo
:slowly rocking back and forth in the corner, clutching his knees:
OK, after reading the NYT article about it, I'm slightly mollified. NPR is urging its affiliates to supplant it with "Here and Now", and they're keeping "Science Fridays".
Backing away from the ledge now.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 16:10:51
Raine on 03/29/2013 16:10:51
NPR is running a $7 million deficit, but executives said the network intended to offer a job to every employee of "Talk of the Nation."
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 16:19:01
I think you may be more correct than you think.
Wiki lists the Old Testament boooks as thus:
According to Wiki, the Torah is the teaching of the Tanakh.
Now I am confused.
Raine on 03/29/2013 16:19:01
Quote by wickedpam:
Will would be the person to get a definitive answer, my knowledge of Judaism is rather limited and a little skewed as my aunt is Messianic Jewish.
Wiki lists the Old Testament boooks as thus:
The Old Testament contains 39 (Protestant) or 46 (Catholic) or more (Orthodox and other) books, divided, very broadly, into the Pentateuch (meaning "five books"), the historical books, the "wisdom" books and the prophets.
According to Wiki, the Torah is the teaching of the Tanakh.
Now I am confused.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/29/2013 16:24:15
That maybe starting down a very long and windy path
wickedpam on 03/29/2013 16:24:15
Quote by Raine:I think you may be more correct than you think.Quote by wickedpam:
Will would be the person to get a definitive answer, my knowledge of Judaism is rather limited and a little skewed as my aunt is Messianic Jewish.
Wiki lists the Old Testament boooks as thus:The Old Testament contains 39 (Protestant) or 46 (Catholic) or more (Orthodox and other) books, divided, very broadly, into the Pentateuch (meaning "five books"), the historical books, the "wisdom" books and the prophets.
According to Wiki, the Torah is the teaching of the Tanakh.
Now I am confused.
That maybe starting down a very long and windy path
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:33:33
Meh, I won't miss it. Best thing they did is SciFriday. Not to be confused with Stirfriday, Clint.
:mutters Guido Sardouchbag, causing Clint to do a spit take on his monitor:
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:33:33
Quote by Raine:Sorry clint... it is over in June.Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
In totally separate news, I'm sorry to learn that Talk of the Nation is ending.
WhatwhatWHAT? Whaddaya mean "ending"? I've been depending on that show to get me through the early afternoon. What will I do without Political Junkies Wednesday? SCIENCE FRIDAY? NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo
:slowly rocking back and forth in the corner, clutching his knees:
The afternoon call-in show "Talk of the Nation" will end its 21-year run on NPR June 30.
The network made the programming announcement on Friday. It's encouraging stations to replace the show with "Here and Now," a news magazine produced at WBUR in Boston.
"NPR has concluded that it can best serve public radio by concentrating its resources on produced news programming with reported stories and hosted interviews that appeal to listeners on radio and emerging digital platforms," NPR programming executives said in an email. The network will continue to produce "Science Friday."
Meh, I won't miss it. Best thing they did is SciFriday. Not to be confused with Stirfriday, Clint.
:mutters Guido Sardouchbag, causing Clint to do a spit take on his monitor:
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:34:08
Where's Will when we need him?
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:34:08
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:I think you may be more correct than you think.Quote by wickedpam:
Will would be the person to get a definitive answer, my knowledge of Judaism is rather limited and a little skewed as my aunt is Messianic Jewish.
Wiki lists the Old Testament boooks as thus:The Old Testament contains 39 (Protestant) or 46 (Catholic) or more (Orthodox and other) books, divided, very broadly, into the Pentateuch (meaning "five books"), the historical books, the "wisdom" books and the prophets.
According to Wiki, the Torah is the teaching of the Tanakh.
Now I am confused.
That maybe starting down a very long and windy path
Where's Will when we need him?
Comment by clintster on 03/29/2013 16:37:31
Boom! *drops mic*
clintster on 03/29/2013 16:37:31
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:Sorry clint... it is over in June.Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
In totally separate news, I'm sorry to learn that Talk of the Nation is ending.
WhatwhatWHAT? Whaddaya mean "ending"? I've been depending on that show to get me through the early afternoon. What will I do without Political Junkies Wednesday? SCIENCE FRIDAY? NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo
:slowly rocking back and forth in the corner, clutching his knees:
The afternoon call-in show "Talk of the Nation" will end its 21-year run on NPR June 30.
The network made the programming announcement on Friday. It's encouraging stations to replace the show with "Here and Now," a news magazine produced at WBUR in Boston.
"NPR has concluded that it can best serve public radio by concentrating its resources on produced news programming with reported stories and hosted interviews that appeal to listeners on radio and emerging digital platforms," NPR programming executives said in an email. The network will continue to produce "Science Friday."
Meh, I won't miss it. Best thing they did is SciFriday. Not to be confused with Stirfriday, Clint.
:mutters Guido Sardouchbag, causing Clint to do a spit take on his monitor:
Boom! *drops mic*
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:41:52
Aaaaaaaahhhhhha! What? Were not doing that any more?
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:41:52
Quote by clintster:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:Sorry clint... it is over in June.Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
In totally separate news, I'm sorry to learn that Talk of the Nation is ending.
WhatwhatWHAT? Whaddaya mean "ending"? I've been depending on that show to get me through the early afternoon. What will I do without Political Junkies Wednesday? SCIENCE FRIDAY? NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo
:slowly rocking back and forth in the corner, clutching his knees:
The afternoon call-in show "Talk of the Nation" will end its 21-year run on NPR June 30.
The network made the programming announcement on Friday. It's encouraging stations to replace the show with "Here and Now," a news magazine produced at WBUR in Boston.
"NPR has concluded that it can best serve public radio by concentrating its resources on produced news programming with reported stories and hosted interviews that appeal to listeners on radio and emerging digital platforms," NPR programming executives said in an email. The network will continue to produce "Science Friday."
Meh, I won't miss it. Best thing they did is SciFriday. Not to be confused with Stirfriday, Clint.
:mutters Guido Sardouchbag, causing Clint to do a spit take on his monitor:
Boom! *drops mic*
Aaaaaaaahhhhhha! What? Were not doing that any more?
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 16:42:53
Well, It's a long and convoluted path like most things I find myself involved with.
I can start with the obvious....how is the "Holy Trinity" not polytheism? (not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you're going to believe the Abrahamic Monotheism in the Books, then why split God?)
I'm not overly impressed with Catholic Leadership. I have an issue with the Pope being infallible. IMHO, there was only one guy who walked the Earth who was infallible, and that'sMayor Mennino, er Jesus himself. The papacy declaring it so doesn't make it so, and just reinforces the arrogance of it all.
Then there's the praying bit...I've always gone direct to the Big Guy if I have an issue. Even when I was a practicing Catholic, I never prayed to Jesus, it was always direct. Which is the centerpiece of Koranic teachings, IMHO. I think I had a propensity for that from when I was a wee lad.
The more I read about this, the more I find myself liking what I see, although as with all religious texts, there are the darker elements. Jihad, (completely mis-represented by Western Journalism), Martyrs, that bit about the Virgins...these are all made-up constructs and do not appear in the Koran as we have been told to believe it.
This might also help...I wrote this in 2010, with the intention of posting it around here; I never did. I only just recently put it out to public.
TriSec on 03/29/2013 16:42:53
Quote by Raine:
As a person who practices no organized religion -- I think I fall more into a deist realm -- Why are you finding yourself drawn to Islam and away from Christianity?
Well, It's a long and convoluted path like most things I find myself involved with.
I can start with the obvious....how is the "Holy Trinity" not polytheism? (not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you're going to believe the Abrahamic Monotheism in the Books, then why split God?)
I'm not overly impressed with Catholic Leadership. I have an issue with the Pope being infallible. IMHO, there was only one guy who walked the Earth who was infallible, and that's
Then there's the praying bit...I've always gone direct to the Big Guy if I have an issue. Even when I was a practicing Catholic, I never prayed to Jesus, it was always direct. Which is the centerpiece of Koranic teachings, IMHO. I think I had a propensity for that from when I was a wee lad.
The more I read about this, the more I find myself liking what I see, although as with all religious texts, there are the darker elements. Jihad, (completely mis-represented by Western Journalism), Martyrs, that bit about the Virgins...these are all made-up constructs and do not appear in the Koran as we have been told to believe it.
This might also help...I wrote this in 2010, with the intention of posting it around here; I never did. I only just recently put it out to public.
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:42:55
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:42:55
Clint, our work here is done. We have driven the blog into an Archer ditch.
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:44:58
The blog crashes after Clintser and I hijack the discussion.
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:44:58
The blog crashes after Clintser and I hijack the discussion.
Comment by clintster on 03/29/2013 16:48:50
I'd say it's been taken into the
...wait for it...
...wait for it...
DANGER ZONE!
clintster on 03/29/2013 16:48:50
Quote by Mondobubba:
Clint, our work here is done. We have driven the blog into an Archer ditch.
I'd say it's been taken into the
...wait for it...
...wait for it...
DANGER ZONE!
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 16:51:50
TriSec on 03/29/2013 16:51:50
If you hated Gronk before, you might want to re-consider.
"I got this question before, about a year ago, and I basically will say the same answer that I did a year ago," he said Wednesday in an interview with Stephen A. Smith and Ryan Ruocco on ESPN Radio New York, when asked how the Patriots' locker room would receive an openly gay player. "You've got to accept the player. Everyone has their own ways to live their life and as long as he's respecting me, keeping distance, respecting myself, I'll respect him back.
"If he's being a great teammate and he's a guy on the field doing a great job, well then you've got nothing to complain about. He's another teammate and another friend."
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:53:17
For your viewing pleasure.
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 16:53:17
Quote by clintster:Quote by Mondobubba:
Clint, our work here is done. We have driven the blog into an Archer ditch.
I'd say it's been taken into the
...wait for it...
...wait for it...
DANGER ZONE!
For your viewing pleasure.
Comment by clintster on 03/29/2013 17:11:51
clintster on 03/29/2013 17:11:51
So apparently Pope Francis has broken with tradition yet again. Yesterday, he went to wash the feet of young women in a detention center in an annual act of humility. This is a break with the Holy Thursday tradition that required only men have their feet washed.
Best part: some of the women were Orthodox and Muslim.
Best part: some of the women were Orthodox and Muslim.
Comment by clintster on 03/29/2013 17:12:19
clintster on 03/29/2013 17:12:19
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 17:15:58
And this is why I work in the women's footwear department. Fetishes manifest themselves in strange ways, don't they?
Uh, wait....
TriSec on 03/29/2013 17:15:58
Quote by clintster:
So apparently Pope Francis has broken with tradition yet again. Yesterday, he went to wash the feet of young women in a detention center in an annual act of humility. This is a break with the Holy Thursday tradition that required only men have their feet washed.
Best part: some of the women were Orthodox and Muslim.
And this is why I work in the women's footwear department. Fetishes manifest themselves in strange ways, don't they?
Uh, wait....
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 18:13:52
You're welcome, Newb Gingrich.
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 18:13:52
Quote by clintster:Quote by Mondobubba:
Clint you'll thank me later.
Well, there goes the rest of my Friday!
You're welcome, Newb Gingrich.
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 18:16:00
For the blog, but you know Clint, Archer is like cowbell...
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 18:16:00
For the blog, but you know Clint, Archer is like cowbell...
Comment by TriSec on 03/29/2013 18:29:30
TriSec on 03/29/2013 18:29:30
Hello, I am a depraved individual.
No matter how noble or ancient a society should be, it should not include the word "retarded", no matter what the context.
I'm sorry. It's the New Englander in me. I don't know why I found that hilarious this afternoon.
No matter how noble or ancient a society should be, it should not include the word "retarded", no matter what the context.
I'm sorry. It's the New Englander in me. I don't know why I found that hilarious this afternoon.
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 18:42:58
We all slip. You have made your liberal/New Englander confession, get back in the game : awkward man hug:
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 18:42:58
Quote by TriSec:
Hello, I am a depraved individual.
No matter how noble or ancient a society should be, it should not include the word "retarded", no matter what the context.
I'm sorry. It's the New Englander in me. I don't know why I found that hilarious this afternoon.
We all slip. You have made your liberal/New Englander confession, get back in the game : awkward man hug:
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 19:08:58
Passover.
Raine on 03/29/2013 19:08:58
Quote by Mondobubba:
Where's Will when we need him?
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 19:15:57
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 19:15:57
On serious note, I had a think about Dear Leader, Jr. earlier. All this bellicose posturing coming from North Korea isn't aim the US or South Korea, it is Kim Jong Un showing his people he's got some stones on him.
Comment by Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 19:16:34
The big deal part of it was on Tuesday. With the Sunday and Mondee being the last days. Those are the days the gym is either closes early or is closed completely. I'm just inferring what the most important days of Passover are based on how I'm inconveinced.
Mondobubba on 03/29/2013 19:16:34
Quote by Raine:Passover.Quote by Mondobubba:
Where's Will when we need him?
The big deal part of it was on Tuesday.
With the Sunday and Mondee being the last days. Those are the days the gym is either closes early or is closed completely. I'm just inferring what the most important days of Passover are based on how I'm inconveinced.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 19:21:23
Take a look around... There are a number of sports blogs that are saying an active NFL player may very well be coming out in the off season.
You can thank people besides (and along with) Gronk for this. Chris Klewe and Brendon Ayanbadejo... to name a few:
Of course, for every Klewe, Grock and Ayanbadejo...
We have a Clement and a Culliver.
A while back Vel wrote about the Gay in the NFL. I think her wish is going to come true. I would like to see it myself.
Raine on 03/29/2013 19:21:23
Quote by TriSec:
If you hated Gronk before, you might want to re-consider.
"I got this question before, about a year ago, and I basically will say the same answer that I did a year ago," he said Wednesday in an interview with Stephen A. Smith and Ryan Ruocco on ESPN Radio New York, when asked how the Patriots' locker room would receive an openly gay player. "You've got to accept the player. Everyone has their own ways to live their life and as long as he's respecting me, keeping distance, respecting myself, I'll respect him back.
"If he's being a great teammate and he's a guy on the field doing a great job, well then you've got nothing to complain about. He's another teammate and another friend."
You can thank people besides (and along with) Gronk for this. Chris Klewe and Brendon Ayanbadejo... to name a few:
The brief's supporters are impressive. They include: Giants co-owner Steve Tisch; Demaurice Smith, executive director of the NFLPA; Vikings punter Chris Kluwe, Ravens linebacker Brendon Ayanbadejo; Marie Tillman, co-founder of the Pat Tillman Foundation; Russell Simmons, founder of Def Jam Records; former UFC light heavyweight champion Rashad Evans; Browns center Alex Mack; and NFL players Connor Barwin, D'Qwell Jackson, Tom Crabtree, Eric Winston and Scott Shanle, among others.
Of course, for every Klewe, Grock and Ayanbadejo...
We have a Clement and a Culliver.
A while back Vel wrote about the Gay in the NFL. I think her wish is going to come true. I would like to see it myself.
Comment by Raine on 03/29/2013 20:58:38
Raine on 03/29/2013 20:58:38
Go to the google and type this in: Fourfreedomsblog NFL Gay.
You will find this from our Velveeta in 2011.
football IS gay
An
And there is this: it's SUPER
That latter had this:
What I see right now is a slow roll out for that one gay player. Something is happening here. The NFL has at least -- AT LEAST -- one player who is gay and wants to come out, and we are seeing a testing of the waters.
You will find this from our Velveeta in 2011.
football IS gay
An
And there is this: it's SUPER
That latter had this:
But what we really need is an out player. Not just out, but someone who is a kick-ass player who is super nelly and fay on the day's off. Someone who dominates the field on game day, and leads the parade in drag on Gay Day.
Come on. There are at least 1700 professional NFL players, that means there are about 170 players that go home to their boyfriends. Come on out, you can make a big difference!
What I see right now is a slow roll out for that one gay player. Something is happening here. The NFL has at least -- AT LEAST -- one player who is gay and wants to come out, and we are seeing a testing of the waters.
Comment by 
Will in Chicago on 03/30/2013 04:38:20
First, Raine, thanks for a great blog. We must pursue justice on all levels -- social and economic.
I would argue that many Christians, liberal and otherwise, read the Tanakh (the Jewish acronym for the Bible) and interpret it literally and forget about the context of when it was written, the surrounding cultures and the fact that literally reading a text is the only one way or reading a text.
One thing that annoys me is that people selectively quote a text and ignore other parts of it. Mike Malloy does this and quotes that the Israelites were told to wipe out the Canaanites. He either does not know or care to quote that in Joshua that the Eternal decreed that the Canaanites would not disappear after all. Similarly, people ignore the interpretations of Rabbinic Judaism and how it looks at the Tanakh. I hate to say it, but sometimes I find the casual remarks on what Christians call the New Testament as yet another example of supersessionism and may end up denigrating another faith by protraying it as primitive or incorrect. (Heck, the Jehovah's witnesses make a linguistic error in using what is most likely a hybrid or erroneous form of the Divine Name.
To me, my faith is a tradition that serves as a path for me to approach that which is sacred and holy. I believe that there are many different paths to truth, so Mala's path, TriSec's path as well as those of many other faiths are their ways to interface with the Divine. I have known good people of many faiths, and none at all. (I don't think all paths may necessarily be valid. For example, I think that the Westboro Baptist Church has committed idolatry by casting the Almighty into an image in their own likeness. Also, I must reject any abuse committed in the name of the Divine. This includes everything from human sacrifice to clergy abusing children. My test for what is an appropriate behavior is simple: would you want it done to yourself?)
Raine, perhaps one way to think of organized religion is that it is an approach that some use and can help people form communities where they can help each other on their own individual journeys. In the end, we are all searchers for the truth and must realize that there is much to learn.
Will in Chicago on 03/30/2013 04:38:20
Quote by Raine:Now, this is something else that wonder -- Will (who is celebrating passover) is jewish -- doesn't his religion rely upon the old testament? I ask this because sometimes I wonder of liberal christians are using the old testament to counter RW'rs and I honestly wonder if that is a bit of a slap in the face of the jewish people.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:
Jesus in the Qu'ran.
Musa (or Moses) also figures prominently in many sections of the Book as well. (I"m reading the passage where his staff turns into a serpent right now.)
I"ve said it before, the number of instances where the Bible and the Qu'ran are the same, and indeed often word-for-word, astonishes me every time I run across it.
Although I'm usually confused by Christians who solely want to use the Old Testament when really we're supposed to use the New Testament, you know that book that gives us the guy in which we base Christian beliefs on
See... I don't truly understand organized religion.
That said I do believe in a spirituality -- could be God.
First, Raine, thanks for a great blog. We must pursue justice on all levels -- social and economic.
I would argue that many Christians, liberal and otherwise, read the Tanakh (the Jewish acronym for the Bible) and interpret it literally and forget about the context of when it was written, the surrounding cultures and the fact that literally reading a text is the only one way or reading a text.
One thing that annoys me is that people selectively quote a text and ignore other parts of it. Mike Malloy does this and quotes that the Israelites were told to wipe out the Canaanites. He either does not know or care to quote that in Joshua that the Eternal decreed that the Canaanites would not disappear after all. Similarly, people ignore the interpretations of Rabbinic Judaism and how it looks at the Tanakh. I hate to say it, but sometimes I find the casual remarks on what Christians call the New Testament as yet another example of supersessionism and may end up denigrating another faith by protraying it as primitive or incorrect. (Heck, the Jehovah's witnesses make a linguistic error in using what is most likely a hybrid or erroneous form of the Divine Name.
To me, my faith is a tradition that serves as a path for me to approach that which is sacred and holy. I believe that there are many different paths to truth, so Mala's path, TriSec's path as well as those of many other faiths are their ways to interface with the Divine. I have known good people of many faiths, and none at all. (I don't think all paths may necessarily be valid. For example, I think that the Westboro Baptist Church has committed idolatry by casting the Almighty into an image in their own likeness. Also, I must reject any abuse committed in the name of the Divine. This includes everything from human sacrifice to clergy abusing children. My test for what is an appropriate behavior is simple: would you want it done to yourself?)
Raine, perhaps one way to think of organized religion is that it is an approach that some use and can help people form communities where they can help each other on their own individual journeys. In the end, we are all searchers for the truth and must realize that there is much to learn.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 03/30/2013 04:45:57
The Torah consists of the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Number and Deuteronomy. Torah means teaching. The next division is Nevi'im, prophets. The final section, Ketuvim, are writings such as the Psalms. There is a good article on this here.
I would recommend the site MyJewishLearning.com -- not only does it have a lot of information on Judaism it also has some very good recipes.
Will in Chicago on 03/30/2013 04:45:57
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:I wasn't aware that it was only the first 5 books. That changes a lot for me.Quote by wickedpam:
The Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament, no Jesus but we get the classic Bible stories that Charlton Heston starred in ;)
New Testament is the teaching of Jesus and his followers, not Heston movies.
Will would be the person to get a definitive answer, my knowledge of Judaism is rather limited and a little skewed as my aunt is Messianic Jewish.
The Torah consists of the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Number and Deuteronomy. Torah means teaching. The next division is Nevi'im, prophets. The final section, Ketuvim, are writings such as the Psalms. There is a good article on this here.
I would recommend the site MyJewishLearning.com -- not only does it have a lot of information on Judaism it also has some very good recipes.