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Forward, Backward -- or Stochastic?
Author: Raine    Date: 04/05/2013 12:49:34

Feminism -- are we going forward, backward -- or are we stagnating?

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. We have many issues as women that we have been forced to deal with the past few years, from transvaginal ultra sounds to Planned parenthood funding being taken away...

These are in-your-face immediate issues that women are fighting to protect and keep. There are issues like getting our young women (and young men) vaccinated against the Human Papilloma virus, something that can prevent cancer in their future. This is being attacked in some circles, saying it promotes promiscuity, and in an age where abstinence-only education is being pushed as curriculum in states like Mississippi, it is hard to advocate for health when we are trying to simply get our kids educated about sex.

There is the morning after pill, also demonized by social conservatives as the 'abortion pill' (it isn't, but we have to push back against that misinformation as well). These are immediate and direct health issues that women have to confront.

Access to these particular examples (and others) are things that women are fighting to maintain.

Women are still fighting for pay equity. In one of his first actions after taking office, President Obama signed the Lily Ledbetter Fait Pay Act. I think it is a fair point to say that pay equality needs to go further.

Women are still seeking health and economic equity in America. Regarding health equity, I think it is clear that conservatives are taking us backwards. A myriad of laws have been passed since the 2010 elections, from Virginia to Oklahoma. Women are being asked to give up the very right to health care that is gender-specific to women. Take this study from April of 2011:
To date, legislators have introduced 916 measures related to reproductive health and rights in the 49 legislatures that have convened their regular sessions.

Since 2011, things haven't gotten much better. Basically, The GOP is trying to take away rights from women that we have been living with for many many years, things that we SHOULD be able to take for granted at this point... Things that a generation has been able to take for granted. Feminists are still out there, only now it seems they are fighting to protect rights instead of being able to achieve full equality. In the year 2013, they are protecting our rights to safe access to birth control and abortion in America. Sandra Fluke is but one example of how fragile these rights, fought for and gained by the generation before her, can be taken away. She was essentially slut shamed by the right-wing media and some elected officials.

The things I mention above are things that many feminists talk about and defend the right to. It's not only feminists, it's also our male allies. I tend to consider them feminists as well. They know and understand that we want the kind of equality that was once reserved for the elite in our nation. There was a time when women were not allowed to own property. There was once a time when people were held as slaves and were prevented from learning to read -- something that could be punishable with death. Women were not supposed to vote. Strict constitutionalists deemed this as such when the suffragettes and abolitionists protested for the right to quality and the right to vote.

This all leads me to a very serious question. As a feminist, where is the women's right movement?

One of my personal Rock goddesses Stevie Nicks had something to say about this at a recent SXSW panel discussion.
“We fought very hard for feminism, for women’s rights,” she said when addressing a question from the audience. “What I’m seeing today is a very opposite thing. I don’t know why, but I see women being ‘put back in their place.’ And I hate it. We’re losing all we worked so hard for, and it really bums me out.”
The author of the blog wonders, is Ms. Nicks right?
Have women’s rights not only stopped progressing forward, but actually moved backward? We get told we act too prudish or too slutty. We are told that we are too fat. We are told that we are too thin. We are called teases if we are nice to a male friend but have no desire to sleep with them. We are bitches or crazy feminists if we demand to be taken seriously. We are told we have to work hard in our careers for less pay then we deserve but – oh wait – we have to be great moms and homemakers too! We are told if we are assaulted that we probably just drank too much, or that our dress was too skimpy."
After reading that, I took pause. While this is true, are we at a point where it's becoming a red-herring to always be setting ourselves up as victims? If women are this, then they are that - Isn't that falling right into the hands of the idea of patriarchy?

Do we set ourselves up to fail by creating a no-win situation or is this an actual reality? Are we to be more concerned with skirts and what people think about us when women -- girls, children -- are being sold and trafficked as sex slaves here in the United States?

Personally I think Nicks is correct. We (not just as women, or as feminists, but as a society in total) are going backwards. Some of these debates we should be long past having to have. Sadly, we are still having them. As thus, I am seeing a real rift inside the feminist movement, it is struggling with how to move forward.

I believe that we are not moving in a forward direction if we are moving in a scattered pattern. A friend of mine suggested otherwise, stating "Evolution is stochastic, in the sense a scattered approach is not indicative of a lack of process, it's one of creation and re-creation."

How can we go forward when we see images like this?
 http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QuvHdfzfFmI/Td0xswHkoPI/AAAAAAAAAuw/rZDZTmqjO_8/s400/maleDominatedCultureBikiniVsBurka.jpg


We are a first-world country... we have a long way to go but we do ourselves no good with images like that, especially when we are still dealing with messages from Princeton Alum, Susan Patton
In the open letter dolling out free relationship advice, the proud Princeton alumna whose younger son, Daniel, is currently attending the New Jersey institution, bluntly stated that one of the main goals for female students attending her school should be finding a husband that will be up to their high standards.

'For most of you, the cornerstone of your future and happiness will be inextricably linked to the man you marry, and you will never again have this concentration of men who are worthy of you,' Patton writes.

'Here’s what nobody is telling you: Find a husband on campus before you graduate. Yes, I went there.'
On the other side of this spectrum we have Sheryl Sandberg who advises women to "Lean In", and it is generating a bit of controversy as well.
Sandberg's book has generated a spectrum of responses — some positive, some mixed and some outright hostile. Most common is the complaint that Sandberg seems to put the burden on women to change, rather than challenging the institutional, cultural and psychological factors that present extra challenges for women.

But another common refrain is that Sandberg fails to represent all women. As one of the richest and most powerful women in America, and one with a supportive husband, she has a few resources that most women lack — whether it's household help or another parent who can step in when she needs to miss dinner with the kids. Here are just two representative comments:

Sandberg has already gotten some flak from women who think that her attitude is too elitist and that she is too prone to blame women for failing to get ahead. (Not everyone has Larry Page and Sergey Brin volunteering to baby-sit, and Zuckerberg offering a shoulder to cry on.) Noting that her Facebook page for Lean In looks more like an ego wall with "deep thoughts," critics argue that her unique perch as a mogul with the world's best husband to boot makes her tone-deaf to the problems average women face as they struggle to make ends meet in a rough economy, while taking care of kids, aging parents and housework. (Maureen Dowd, The New York Times)

Even her advisers acknowledge the awkwardness of a woman with double Harvard degrees, dual stock riches (from Facebook and Google, where she also worked), a 9,000-square-foot house and a small army of household help urging less fortunate women to look inward and work harder. Will more earthbound women, struggling with cash flow and child care, embrace the advice of a Silicon Valley executive whose book acknowledgments include thanks to her wealth adviser and Oprah Winfrey? (Jodi Kantor, The New York Times)


We are not going forward when wealthy women are defining what feminism is. It then becomes about a certain elitism and that is the very thing that women were fighting to end during the height of the women's liberation movement.

I know I asked a lot of questions today, and I provided few answers, but I think it is worth pondering. Now excuse me, I have to shave my armpits.

and
 

52 comments (Latest Comment: 04/06/2013 01:37:43 by clintster)
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Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 13:05:17
Morning all. John Fucking Hamm was a guest voice on Archer last night. Be still my nerd heart! Plus next week the ISIS team will be entering an underwater sea lab (2021?)! Why aren't you people watching this show? It is the funniest thing on teevee!

BTW great thoughtful blog, Raine.

Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 13:05:36
Breaking and apropos to today's blog:


A federal judge on Friday ordered the Food and Drug Administration to make the "morning-after" emergency contraception pill available to girls of all ages without a prescription.


Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 13:19:28
Quote by Raine:
Breaking and apropos to today's blog:


A federal judge on Friday ordered the Food and Drug Administration to make the "morning-after" emergency contraception pill available to girls of all ages without a prescription.



Sanity! Yay!

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 13:19:57
Linky-dink no workee, Raine.

Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 13:33:04
Quote by Mondobubba:
Linky-dink no workee, Raine.

here you go: link. I'll go fix the post. thanks!

Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 13:35:17
Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 13:39:59
I did a little more research on the blogger who wondered if Stevie Nicks was right, ironically, it turns out, she is a twenty something.

Maybe there is something more to be said about generational shifts and feminism.

Comment by BobR on 04/05/2013 13:44:45
Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 14:02:36
Let's get some serious good vibes going for Clintster! He just checked in for his interview!

Also, let's get some serious good vibes for Mala... Today is a major part of her crown surgery!



Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 14:03:18
Kenny is just friggin awesome.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 14:10:11
Quote by Raine:
Let's get some serious good vibes going for Clintster! He just checked in for his interview!

Also, let's get some serious good vibes for Mala... Today is a major part of her crown surgery!




Hell yeah! many

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 15:02:03
Dear America,

When you are told not use a specific web browser why do you insist on using it?

Comment by wickedpam on 04/05/2013 15:23:48
Morning



Comment by wickedpam on 04/05/2013 15:24:44
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Let's get some serious good vibes going for Clintster! He just checked in for his interview!

Also, let's get some serious good vibes for Mala... Today is a major part of her crown surgery!




Hell yeah! many



awww Thanks you guys


Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 15:33:58
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning




Done? Crown fitted? Have you been medicated?

Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 15:36:31
Welcome back, Mala!

How are you feeling?

Comment by wickedpam on 04/05/2013 15:37:59
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning




Done? Crown fitted? Have you been medicated?



today was gum surgery, now I wait 3 weeks check in to make sure it all looks good, then I wait another 3 weeks to get a mold made (I think) then I wait to have them fitted.

Just took my Tylenol 3 and have an ice pack on my face.

Comment by wickedpam on 04/05/2013 15:39:42
Quote by Raine:
Welcome back, Mala!

How are you feeling?


like I got socked in the mouth, but it will pass


Comment by Scoopster on 04/05/2013 15:41:18
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee!!

Codeine Tylenols? Mmmm..

Comment by wickedpam on 04/05/2013 15:42:54
Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee!!

Codeine Tylenols? Mmmm..



they need to kick in faster, the numbing stuff wore off an hour ago

Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 15:55:57
Ok, I know this is going to piss some people off, but WTF.

NOTE. LANGUAGE NSFW



Sorry, Tri. This is not meant to bash you, I am trying to understand.

Comment by livingonli on 04/05/2013 15:57:27
Good morning, everyone.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 16:01:18
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning




Done? Crown fitted? Have you been medicated?



today was gum surgery, now I wait 3 weeks check in to make sure it all looks good, then I wait another 3 weeks to get a mold made (I think) then I wait to have them fitted.

Just took my Tylenol 3 and have an ice pack on my face.



Whoa! Mala's gonna be loopy in 4, 3, 2, 1.

Comment by TriSec on 04/05/2013 16:02:13
Quote by Raine:
Ok, I know this is going to piss some people off, but WTF.

NOTE. LANGUAGE NSFW



Sorry, Tri. This is not meant to bash you, I am trying to understand.



Well, I can't see it at work. I'll exact my revenge later.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 16:03:54
Quote by Raine:
Ok, I know this is going to piss some people off, but WTF.

NOTE. LANGUAGE NSFW



Sorry, Tri. This is not meant to bash you, I am trying to understand.



Christina Rad has become kind of annoying in certain atheist circles.

Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 16:15:58
Quote by Mondobubba
Christina Rad has become kind of annoying in certain atheist circles.
Why?

The reson why I posted this is because I am seeing a lot of push back from something called the FEMEN movement. This is one example.

this FB page is another.

It goes directly to my query in todays blog.




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHA3jxrCIAEdTd3.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHBdeKqCMAA4JFt.jpg


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/536863_589195734426961_1203163202_n.jpg



If all you are allowed to know and experience, solely due to your gender, is oppression and abuse, you will be inclined to believe that is all you deserve and are entitled to.
<-- I read this as a comment to the idea that anti FEMEN women might be not really aware of what is happening.

I wonder of these women are aware that they are enforcing the very thing that is keeping them as submissive.


Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 16:35:36
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba
Christina Rad has become kind of annoying in certain atheist circles.
Why?

The reson why I posted this is because I am seeing a lot of push back from something called the FEMEN movement. This is one example.

this FB page is another.

It goes directly to my query in todays blog.




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHA3jxrCIAEdTd3.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHBdeKqCMAA4JFt.jpg


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/536863_589195734426961_1203163202_n.jpg



If all you are allowed to know and experience, solely due to your gender, is oppression and abuse, you will be inclined to believe that is all you deserve and are entitled to.
<-- I read this as a comment to the idea that anti FEMEN women might be not really aware of what is happening.

I wonder of these women are aware that they are enforcing the very thing that is keeping them as submissive.



There is a creeping strain of what many in the community consider to Muslim bashing. There are folks who are atheists who attack Islam with a particular venom.

Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 16:35:58
Quote by TriSec:
Well, I can't see it at work. I'll exact my revenge later.
There is no revenge to be had, I explained why I came across this video.


Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 16:38:28
Yesterday was topless Jihad day.

Is it too extreme? is it offensive?

Comment by TriSec on 04/05/2013 16:59:50
Quote by Raine:
Yesterday was topless Jihad day.

Is it too extreme? is it offensive?



No more offensive than calling for nuns to stage a topless protest in Rome, I'd wager.


Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 17:08:09
The House I Live In. This is going to be on the PBS mosheen next week. It is required watching (not just because it is chocked full of David Simon).

Comment by TriSec on 04/05/2013 17:43:44
See now, I belong to this group on Google Plus called "I love Islam". (mostly pithy sayings, Hadith of the day, some Quranic snippets and other such things.)

I recall searching for such a group, then deliberately clicking a "join this group" button.

Why then, is it overrun with haters that do nothing other than post insults and vile things? I wonder what hatred motivated them to search for this group, like I did, and make the conscious decision to join it?

I have read the Bible too....I missed the part where Jesus taught us to hate.



Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 18:01:57
Quote by TriSec:
Quote by Raine:
Yesterday was topless Jihad day.

Is it too extreme? is it offensive?



No more offensive than calling for nuns to stage a topless protest in Rome, I'd wager.
Interesting POV.


not sure if I agree. No one asked Nuns to do such a thing. If Nuns chose to do this themselves, I would probably be supportive of them.

I;m just trying to understand this movement -- it has been around for a while, and I am seeing a lot of push-back against it from women -- in America. In 2005 we went to the anti war march and encountered women topless in DC protesting the war. I thought it was shocking but liberating to see them use their bodies to fight back oppression.

I know the Bible and some sects/religions of Christianity are oppressive toward women-- I am not trying to give that a pass, but I see this as something different.




Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 18:10:59
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QuvHdfzfFmI/Td0xswHkoPI/AAAAAAAAAuw/rZDZTmqjO_8/s400/maleDominatedCultureBikiniVsBurka.jpg


This gets to what I am trying to resolve here.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/536863_589195734426961_1203163202_n.jpg


Comment by livingonli on 04/05/2013 18:23:40
It's starting to feel like the Crusades have never ended.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 18:38:27
Quote by Raine:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QuvHdfzfFmI/Td0xswHkoPI/AAAAAAAAAuw/rZDZTmqjO_8/s400/maleDominatedCultureBikiniVsBurka.jpg


This gets to what I am trying to resolve here.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/536863_589195734426961_1203163202_n.jpg



I think you have hit the nail on the head with the second image, Raine. There are women who are feminist who are working for the advance of women's right in developing world who resent First World meddling and solutions which may or may not be the best way to work within the context of the local culture.

Comment by TriSec on 04/05/2013 18:46:45
TriSec thinking that getting back to kayaking this summer might not be the best idea...

http://kavu.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54f88c001883301156f89f400970b-800wi


(It's all good - just got my CPR lined up so I can get back out there!)


Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 18:56:36
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QuvHdfzfFmI/Td0xswHkoPI/AAAAAAAAAuw/rZDZTmqjO_8/s400/maleDominatedCultureBikiniVsBurka.jpg


This gets to what I am trying to resolve here.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/536863_589195734426961_1203163202_n.jpg



I think you have hit the nail on the head with the second image, Raine. There are women who are feminist who are working for the advance of women's right in developing world who resent First World meddling and solutions which may or may not be the best way to work within the context of the local culture.
perhaps you are onto something, Mondo.

That said, if these women are protesting in countries like France -- against perceptions of religious dominance over women, should they be dismissed as meddlers or should they be embraced as furthering the cause of global equality for women?

Look, I am not trying to play a gotcha game. I promise, this is a real quandry I am having.

I will post this again: If all you are allowed to know and experience, solely due to your gender, is oppression and abuse, you will be inclined to believe that is all you deserve and are entitled to

That is stockholm syndrome. It's why some women here in America believed that women didn't really need the right to vote. It's why some slaves didn't WANT to be freed.




Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 18:59:37
Sad and pathetic.

They wouldn't even accept the man as a *friend*


Comment by livingonli on 04/05/2013 19:02:02
Quote by Raine:
Sad and pathetic.

They wouldn't even accept the man as a *friend*

Another proud moment for Long Island where the Catholic Church continues its regression.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 19:04:27
Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 19:08:43
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QuvHdfzfFmI/Td0xswHkoPI/AAAAAAAAAuw/rZDZTmqjO_8/s400/maleDominatedCultureBikiniVsBurka.jpg


This gets to what I am trying to resolve here.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/536863_589195734426961_1203163202_n.jpg



I think you have hit the nail on the head with the second image, Raine. There are women who are feminist who are working for the advance of women's right in developing world who resent First World meddling and solutions which may or may not be the best way to work within the context of the local culture.
perhaps you are onto something, Mondo.

That said, if these women are protesting in countries like France -- against perceptions of religious dominance over women, should they be dismissed as meddlers or should they be embraced as furthering the cause of global equality for women?

Look, I am not trying to play a gotcha game. I promise, this is a real quandry I am having.

I will post this again: If all you are allowed to know and experience, solely due to your gender, is oppression and abuse, you will be inclined to believe that is all you deserve and are entitled to

That is stockholm syndrome. It's why some women here in America believed that women didn't really need the right to vote. It's why some slaves didn't WANT to be freed.





Very good point about Stockholm syndrome. Raine, have you read Half the Sky? It does a great job of discussing how women in the developing world have empowered themselves. May of them in ways that work in the context of the countries they live in. One of them, Edna Adan is a bad ass.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 19:48:35
Raine, he is my rule of thumb. Guys, don't shit on women. Women, don't let guys shit on you.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 20:01:50
Cindy McCain to Star in Prop 8 Play. No word about her unhinging her lower jaw and devouring the other members of the cast.

Seriously, good on ya, Cindy.

Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 20:33:51
Damnit! How did I miss yesterdee being Muddy Waters' centenary? :listens to "Mannish Boy":

Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 21:12:00
Quote by Mondobubba:
Cindy McCain to Star in Prop 8 Play. No word about her unhinging her lower jaw and devouring the other members of the cast.

Seriously, good on ya, Cindy.
Oh if only her hubby could get with the times...

Yes, good on her.


Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 21:17:03
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Cindy McCain to Star in Prop 8 Play. No word about her unhinging her lower jaw and devouring the other members of the cast.

Seriously, good on ya, Cindy.
Oh if only her hubby could get with the times...

Yes, good on her.


Good on the kid, too. Cindy, Meghan, come to the light, you are really Democrats


Comment by Raine on 04/05/2013 21:18:40
Mondo, did you get a chance to read this essay from him?

It's amazing.


Comment by Mondobubba on 04/05/2013 21:43:13
Quote by Raine:
Mondo, did you get a chance to read this essay from him?

It's amazing.



I'm reading it now

Everett was the only Republican in the family, which caused not rancor but amusement at family dinners.