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Family Security
Author: BobR
Date: 06/17/2013 12:22:41
Republicans in Congress have made it their mission to be obstructionists. Regardless of the issue, if President Obama supports it - they're against it. They've even come out against their own bills once President Obama supported them. That's why it's so delicious to see them supporting a concept that is anathema to their own xenophobic nature: immigration reform.
It's pretty clear why they're supporting it. The last election showed them that they lost a huge chunk of a continuously growing Latino demographic. They need this for 2016, and they know it:
Yes, Lindsey, the Hispanic population will totally support you for this "from the heart" embrace of their best interests. They won't see through this at all...
The Senate is trying to get this passed with a 70 vote margin. I'm not sure why they're set such a high bar for themselves - perhaps they think it has a better chance of making it through the House that way. As always, it's the amendments to the original bill that take legislation down a dark path, and this is no different. There are five "must-have" amendments (from a Republican perspective) that may make or break passage of the bill (at least by the 70 vote margin). Four of those involve the building of a border fence. Mark Rubio (R-FL) has also requested an "English language" requirement for a green card, and is opposing an amendment by Patrick Leahey (D-VT) that includes allowing gay couples to apply for a green card when one of the two is an American. That last one is a stickler for Rubio, who - despite his assurances that the bill is 96% ready, he still may not support the bill.
Keep in mind that this is Rubio's bill. He's willing to shoot down what could be the defining achievement of his career because it might allow gays to enjoy the same equal protection under the law as non-gays? If the amendment makes it in, and Rubio shoots down his own immigration bill, it's buh-bye 2016.
Even if it passes, though, there's still no guarantees the House will give it their stamp of approval. Considering some of the things that make it from the brains and past the lips of House Republicans, I would say that these comments are not an aberration as to how they are thinking about this:
Obviously, it's a terrible analogy. The biggest problem with undocumented citizens here is that enforcing the laws ends up breaking families and punishing the children. We still need some semblance of the original DREAM act so that adults who were brought here as small children have an option to become citizens, so that children born here don't lose their parents to deportation.
For a party that claims to be pro-life, that claims to be "family values", that rails against single-parent households, they sure don't seem to have a problem with ruining children's lives because their hard-working parents didn't fill out the right forms. I don't know if passing this bill will cause the immigrant community to embrace the Republican party - but it would be a step in the right direction to gain some forgiveness.
It's pretty clear why they're supporting it. The last election showed them that they lost a huge chunk of a continuously growing Latino demographic. They need this for 2016, and they know it:
“If we don’t pass immigration reform , if we don’t get it off the table in a reasonable, practical way, it doesn’t matter who you run in 2016,” Graham warned during on appearance Sunday on NBC’s Meet The Press. “We’re in a demographic death spiral as a party, and the only way we can get back in good graces with the Hispanic community, in my view, is pass comprehensive immigration reform. If you don’t do that, it really doesn’t matter who will run, in my view.”
Yes, Lindsey, the Hispanic population will totally support you for this "from the heart" embrace of their best interests. They won't see through this at all...
The Senate is trying to get this passed with a 70 vote margin. I'm not sure why they're set such a high bar for themselves - perhaps they think it has a better chance of making it through the House that way. As always, it's the amendments to the original bill that take legislation down a dark path, and this is no different. There are five "must-have" amendments (from a Republican perspective) that may make or break passage of the bill (at least by the 70 vote margin). Four of those involve the building of a border fence. Mark Rubio (R-FL) has also requested an "English language" requirement for a green card, and is opposing an amendment by Patrick Leahey (D-VT) that includes allowing gay couples to apply for a green card when one of the two is an American. That last one is a stickler for Rubio, who - despite his assurances that the bill is 96% ready, he still may not support the bill.
Keep in mind that this is Rubio's bill. He's willing to shoot down what could be the defining achievement of his career because it might allow gays to enjoy the same equal protection under the law as non-gays? If the amendment makes it in, and Rubio shoots down his own immigration bill, it's buh-bye 2016.
Even if it passes, though, there's still no guarantees the House will give it their stamp of approval. Considering some of the things that make it from the brains and past the lips of House Republicans, I would say that these comments are not an aberration as to how they are thinking about this:
In a speech on the House floor on Tuesday, Rep. Steve King (R-IA) compared undocumented immigrants to bank robbers.
[...]
KING: Think of it this way: If someone goes in and robs a bank and step out on the steps of the bank with the sack of the loot and law enforcement appears and says, sorry, you can’t keep the loot and we’re going to put that back in the bank but you can go. That’s equivalent of removal. You don’t get to keep the objective of the crime, we put you back in the condition you were in before you committed the crime. That’s not draconian. That’s the minimum you can do and still have a rule of law apply.
Obviously, it's a terrible analogy. The biggest problem with undocumented citizens here is that enforcing the laws ends up breaking families and punishing the children. We still need some semblance of the original DREAM act so that adults who were brought here as small children have an option to become citizens, so that children born here don't lose their parents to deportation.
For a party that claims to be pro-life, that claims to be "family values", that rails against single-parent households, they sure don't seem to have a problem with ruining children's lives because their hard-working parents didn't fill out the right forms. I don't know if passing this bill will cause the immigrant community to embrace the Republican party - but it would be a step in the right direction to gain some forgiveness.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
Raine on 06/17/2013 12:33:53
Good morning!
ETA: Firsty pants!
Raine on 06/17/2013 12:33:53
Good morning! ETA: Firsty pants!
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 12:55:20
Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 12:55:20
Morning? Yes it is. 
Comment by 
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 13:09:46
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 13:09:46
Morning 
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 13:23:05
Raine on 06/17/2013 13:23:05
Comment by wickedpam on 06/17/2013 13:28:10
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 13:28:10
oh for crying out loud would some call Long Fence have have them put up a cheap chain link just to make Grampy happy 
as the "English Language" to get a green card - I have to say I kind of agree that someone must speak and understand the language of the country they are wanting to live in or become a citizen of. I think that of any place in the world. In my book that's a sign of respect for the people you have chosen to be a part of.
as the "English Language" to get a green card - I have to say I kind of agree that someone must speak and understand the language of the country they are wanting to live in or become a citizen of. I think that of any place in the world. In my book that's a sign of respect for the people you have chosen to be a part of.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/17/2013 13:43:13
the more moves he makes the more hinky he seems and the more he looks like a spy for China or Russia
plus why the hell is he leaking British secrets?
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 13:43:13
Quote by Raine:
WTF? He is saying he's scared for his life and Snowden is giving a LIVE Q&A -- ONLINE?
the more moves he makes the more hinky he seems and the more he looks like a spy for China or Russia
plus why the hell is he leaking British secrets?
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 13:52:30
Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 13:52:30
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 13:53:27
Did you read Jonathan Capehart's column from last week?
Raine on 06/17/2013 13:53:27
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
WTF? He is saying he's scared for his life and Snowden is giving a LIVE Q&A -- ONLINE?
the more moves he makes the more hinky he seems and the more he looks like a spy for China or Russia
plus why the hell is he leaking British secrets?
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 13:56:03
All the liquor and therapy in world will erase this image.
Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 13:56:03
Quote by Raine:
and this will frighten the hell out of everyone!
All the liquor and therapy in world will erase this image.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/17/2013 14:00:44
oh yes, that the other word I have to Snowden - coward. Bradly Manning didn't run away when he leaked stuff. I can respect that. But Snowden - he planned it all out and ran away. And to looks more and more like he's trying to get the US into a fight with China and the rest of the world.
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 14:00:44
Quote by Raine:Did you read Jonathan Capehart's column from last week?Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
WTF? He is saying he's scared for his life and Snowden is giving a LIVE Q&A -- ONLINE?
the more moves he makes the more hinky he seems and the more he looks like a spy for China or Russia
plus why the hell is he leaking British secrets?
oh yes, that the other word I have to Snowden - coward. Bradly Manning didn't run away when he leaked stuff. I can respect that. But Snowden - he planned it all out and ran away. And to looks more and more like he's trying to get the US into a fight with China and the rest of the world.
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 14:03:24
I'll give Manning, That Mala -- he didn't run away.
What we have here is a man that is giving away state secrets. That's just not cool.
Raine on 06/17/2013 14:03:24
Quote by wickedpam:
oh yes, that the other word I have to Snowden - coward. Bradly Manning didn't run away when he leaked stuff. I can respect that. But Snowden - he planned it all out and ran away. And to looks more and more like he's trying to get the US into a fight with China and the rest of the world.
What we have here is a man that is giving away state secrets. That's just not cool.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/17/2013 14:06:51
agreed
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 14:06:51
Quote by Raine:I'll give Manning, That Mala -- he didn't run away.Quote by wickedpam:
oh yes, that the other word I have to Snowden - coward. Bradly Manning didn't run away when he leaked stuff. I can respect that. But Snowden - he planned it all out and ran away. And to looks more and more like he's trying to get the US into a fight with China and the rest of the world.
What we have here is a man that is giving away state secrets. That's just not cool.
agreed
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 14:07:28
Will the Snowden haters be allowed participate?
Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 14:07:28
Quote by Raine:
WTF? He is saying he's scared for his life and Snowden is giving a LIVE Q&A -- ONLINE?
Will the Snowden haters be allowed participate?
Comment by 
TriSec on 06/17/2013 14:07:43
TriSec on 06/17/2013 14:07:43
Morning, comrades.
TriSec is in a stew; it's plainly labelled.
TriSec is in a stew; it's plainly labelled.
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 14:16:45
Raine on 06/17/2013 14:16:45
DOMA and Prop 8 are going to be next week.
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 14:18:28
Raine on 06/17/2013 14:18:28
See, the thing about this issue is that Jerrold Nadler kinda confused wiretapping with looking at Meta-Data.
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 14:21:45
Raine on 06/17/2013 14:21:45
I also believe the voting rights case will be announced next week, or maybe thursday.
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 14:24:06
way aheand of you MSNBC:
Raine on 06/17/2013 14:24:06
Quote by Raine:
I also believe the voting rights case will be announced next week, or maybe thursday.
way aheand of you MSNBC:
@mcbc 1m
The Supreme Court doesn't rule on gay marriage/rights, affirmative action or voting rights. Tune in Thursday or next week ... #scotus
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 14:27:45
Raine on 06/17/2013 14:27:45
As an aside from the voting rights law challenge -- looks like Arizona was skoolt.
7-2 they voted to tell Arizona, their voter ID law was too restrictive.
7-2 they voted to tell Arizona, their voter ID law was too restrictive.
Comment by 
Scoopster on 06/17/2013 14:31:40
Scoopster on 06/17/2013 14:31:40
Morning all & Happy Mondee... 
Here have some d'awwwHOLYSHIT!
Here have some d'awwwHOLYSHIT!
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 14:41:29
Kitteh doesn't like lizards at all!
Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 14:41:29
Quote by Scoopster:
Morning all & Happy Mondee...
Here have some d'awwwHOLYSHIT!
Kitteh doesn't like lizards at all!
Comment by wickedpam on 06/17/2013 14:54:06
I don't blame kitteh, I'd jump like that too if one of those things just sauntered up next to me.
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 14:54:06
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Scoopster:
Morning all & Happy Mondee...
Here have some d'awwwHOLYSHIT!
Kitteh doesn't like lizards at all!
I don't blame kitteh, I'd jump like that too if one of those things just sauntered up next to me.
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 14:54:31
Scalia?
(the super jaded part of me thinks that he's worried about the hispanic vote too...)
Raine on 06/17/2013 14:54:31
Quote by Raine:
As an aside from the voting rights law challenge -- looks like Arizona was skoolt.
7-2 they voted to tell Arizona, their voter ID law was too restrictive.
(the super jaded part of me thinks that he's worried about the hispanic vote too...)
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 15:07:12
Susan Tedeschiis awesome!
Ayla brown?
I think you all know where I will be on the fourth... legs dangling over the tidal basin, next to the Jefferson memorial...
Raine on 06/17/2013 15:07:12
Quote by TriSec:
Sorry folks. Your loss.
This year, it will have a more local focus, headlining Massachusetts native and blues singer Susan Tedeschi and Ayla Brown, the daughter of former U.S. Sen. Scott Brown.
Ayla brown?
I think you all know where I will be on the fourth... legs dangling over the tidal basin, next to the Jefferson memorial...
Comment by TriSec on 06/17/2013 15:11:49
TriSec on 06/17/2013 15:11:49
I've been practicing again, my chops are feeling pretty good. I'm hopeful I can get up to "Bob Tyler's Jazz Jam" with all my father's musician friends and play a couple of tunes this year.
Then we'll troop over the two blocks to Leary Field in Waltham and sit on top of the fireworks display. (literally - they shoot them off maybe 50 yards from the crowd.)
Of course, 4th of July week is the annual Harborfest and would have been Fleet Week here if it wasn't for the mean old Republicans...
Then we'll troop over the two blocks to Leary Field in Waltham and sit on top of the fireworks display. (literally - they shoot them off maybe 50 yards from the crowd.)
Of course, 4th of July week is the annual Harborfest and would have been Fleet Week here if it wasn't for the mean old Republicans...
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 15:56:44
Raine on 06/17/2013 15:56:44
I now see why we have a low level of snark in das blog.
Mondo just posted he is in urgent care for a possible sinus infection.
Mondo just posted he is in urgent care for a possible sinus infection.
Comment by TriSec on 06/17/2013 16:07:48
TriSec on 06/17/2013 16:07:48
Comment by Scoopster on 06/17/2013 16:09:13
Oh goodness..!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Healin' Vibes for Senor Mondo! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scoopster on 06/17/2013 16:09:13
Quote by Raine:
I now see why we have a low level of snark in das blog.
Mondo just posted he is in urgent care for a possible sinus infection.
Oh goodness..!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Healin' Vibes for Senor Mondo! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 16:09:39
Raine on 06/17/2013 16:09:39
Edward Snowden is an idiot.
if I were a Chinese spy, why wouldn't I have flown directly into Beijing? I could be living in a palace petting a phoenix by now #AskSnowden
Comment by TriSec on 06/17/2013 16:11:19
TriSec on 06/17/2013 16:11:19
It's a different thing, but it does contain a variation of the magic phrase I have longed to see.
"The only person injured was the alleged drunk driver, who's avulsed remains were scattered across the roadway".
Tough lesson, but lesson learned forever.
Texting driver dies after wreck
"The only person injured was the alleged drunk driver, who's avulsed remains were scattered across the roadway".
Tough lesson, but lesson learned forever.
Texting driver dies after wreck
Comment by wickedpam on 06/17/2013 16:14:14
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ditto that! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 16:14:14
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
I now see why we have a low level of snark in das blog.
Mondo just posted he is in urgent care for a possible sinus infection.
Oh goodness..!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ditto that!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Comment by TriSec on 06/17/2013 16:21:43
TriSec on 06/17/2013 16:21:43
Comment by 
BobR on 06/17/2013 16:29:38
It's required to pass a basic English competency exam to gain citizenship, but not to get a green card. The requirement for the green card seems premature to me.
BobR on 06/17/2013 16:29:38
Quote by wickedpam:
as the "English Language" to get a green card - I have to say I kind of agree that someone must speak and understand the language of the country they are wanting to live in or become a citizen of. I think that of any place in the world. In my book that's a sign of respect for the people you have chosen to be a part of.
It's required to pass a basic English competency exam to gain citizenship, but not to get a green card. The requirement for the green card seems premature to me.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/17/2013 16:40:21
I don't know, just seems so hard to communicate with people these days - heck we can't even get people to stop working on cars in the parking lot at home when we tell them in both Spanish and English its just very frustrating trying to get to the root of issues if we can't even communicate
This is my Achilles heel conservative issue, I admit that, but it comes more from a place of wanting the best for everyone and being able to get those things that people need for them.
does any of that make sense or is it coming off really badly?
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 16:40:21
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
as the "English Language" to get a green card - I have to say I kind of agree that someone must speak and understand the language of the country they are wanting to live in or become a citizen of. I think that of any place in the world. In my book that's a sign of respect for the people you have chosen to be a part of.
It's required to pass a basic English competency exam to gain citizenship, but not to get a green card. The requirement for the green card seems premature to me.
I don't know, just seems so hard to communicate with people these days - heck we can't even get people to stop working on cars in the parking lot at home when we tell them in both Spanish and English its just very frustrating trying to get to the root of issues if we can't even communicate
This is my Achilles heel conservative issue, I admit that, but it comes more from a place of wanting the best for everyone and being able to get those things that people need for them.
does any of that make sense or is it coming off really badly?
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 16:41:36
Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 16:41:36
Mondo is tired of waiting!
Comment by wickedpam on 06/17/2013 16:48:42
for some reason this popped into my head -
wickedpam on 06/17/2013 16:48:42
Quote by Mondobubba:
Mondo is tired of waiting!
for some reason this popped into my head -
Comment by 
livingonli on 06/17/2013 16:48:59
livingonli on 06/17/2013 16:48:59
Good day, folks. It's feeling like that kind of day.
Comment by 
clintster on 06/17/2013 16:49:38
Wut?
clintster on 06/17/2013 16:49:38
I think we can relate this back to education, and how we are … continuing to try to strive to... figure out how to create jobs right now. That is the biggest problem. And I think, especially the men are … um … seen as the leaders of this, and so we need to try to figure out how to create education better so we can solve this problem. Thank you.
Wut?
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 16:54:44
Mondobubba on 06/17/2013 16:54:44
We have diagnosis! Sinus infection. An impressive one at that. 
I don't go for half messures!
I don't go for half messures!
Comment by BobR on 06/17/2013 17:27:18
I say set the limit then to the English comprehension of those "moran" Republicans. That should be easy enough to pass.
BobR on 06/17/2013 17:27:18
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
as the "English Language" to get a green card - I have to say I kind of agree that someone must speak and understand the language of the country they are wanting to live in or become a citizen of. I think that of any place in the world. In my book that's a sign of respect for the people you have chosen to be a part of.
It's required to pass a basic English competency exam to gain citizenship, but not to get a green card. The requirement for the green card seems premature to me.
I don't know, just seems so hard to communicate with people these days - heck we can't even get people to stop working on cars in the parking lot at home when we tell them in both Spanish and English its just very frustrating trying to get to the root of issues if we can't even communicate
This is my Achilles heel conservative issue, I admit that, but it comes more from a place of wanting the best for everyone and being able to get those things that people need for them.
does any of that make sense or is it coming off really badly?
I say set the limit then to the English comprehension of those "moran" Republicans. That should be easy enough to pass.
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 17:34:53
Ms. Utah had Sarah Palin as a mentor, clearly... and such.
Raine on 06/17/2013 17:34:53
Quote by clintster:I think we can relate this back to education, and how we are … continuing to try to strive to... figure out how to create jobs right now. That is the biggest problem. And I think, especially the men are … um … seen as the leaders of this, and so we need to try to figure out how to create education better so we can solve this problem. Thank you.
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 17:37:13
It makes sense -- but I would have to say that the idea of forcing someone to learn english BEFORE they get a green card is kinda stepping on the toes of other nations.
Are we forced to learn another nations language before we leave on a long term basis?
Raine on 06/17/2013 17:37:13
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
as the "English Language" to get a green card - I have to say I kind of agree that someone must speak and understand the language of the country they are wanting to live in or become a citizen of. I think that of any place in the world. In my book that's a sign of respect for the people you have chosen to be a part of.
It's required to pass a basic English competency exam to gain citizenship, but not to get a green card. The requirement for the green card seems premature to me.
I don't know, just seems so hard to communicate with people these days - heck we can't even get people to stop working on cars in the parking lot at home when we tell them in both Spanish and English its just very frustrating trying to get to the root of issues if we can't even communicate
This is my Achilles heel conservative issue, I admit that, but it comes more from a place of wanting the best for everyone and being able to get those things that people need for them.
does any of that make sense or is it coming off really badly?
Are we forced to learn another nations language before we leave on a long term basis?
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 17:43:48
Raine on 06/17/2013 17:43:48
I would very much like it of people STOPPED telling me that Snowden isn't the real story here. At this point -- he is.
As much as I despise the NSA surveilance program -- what this little twit is talking about is much bigger -- and far more dangerous.
As much as I despise the NSA surveilance program -- what this little twit is talking about is much bigger -- and far more dangerous.
In a live chat with The Guardian on Monday, Snowden suggested that he believed all government spying was wrong.
"When NSA makes a technical mistake during an exploitation operation, critical systems crash. Congress hasn't declared war on the countries — the majority of them are our allies — but without asking for public permission, NSA is running network operations against them that affect millions of innocent people," Snowden wrote.
"And for what? So we can have secret access to a computer in a country we're not even fighting? So we can potentially reveal a potential terrorist with the potential to kill fewer Americans than our own Police? No, the public needs to know the kinds of things a government does in its name, or the 'consent of the governed' is meaningless.
Comment by TriSec on 06/17/2013 17:44:25
TriSec on 06/17/2013 17:44:25
"You in America now. We no speaka the Italian".
My Great Grandmother, circa sometime in the 1950s. It's why my mother's generation lost the language, except for a few snippets.
But that said, when my Great Grandmother stepped onto Ellis Island, she didn't speak a word of English. (Yes, I realize immigration was different then.)
But I think you get my point.
My Great Grandmother, circa sometime in the 1950s. It's why my mother's generation lost the language, except for a few snippets.
But that said, when my Great Grandmother stepped onto Ellis Island, she didn't speak a word of English. (Yes, I realize immigration was different then.)
But I think you get my point.
Comment by livingonli on 06/17/2013 17:50:45
livingonli on 06/17/2013 17:50:45
It does sound like Snowden is a Paulbot.
Comment by Raine on 06/17/2013 17:50:57
My grandparents were the same -- No sprechen Deutsch.
and that was difficult -- but it wasn't mandated by law.
Raine on 06/17/2013 17:50:57
Quote by TriSec:
"You in America now. We no speaka the Italian".
My Great Grandmother, circa sometime in the 1950s. It's why my mother's generation lost the language, except for a few snippets.
But that said, when my Great Grandmother stepped onto Ellis Island, she didn't speak a word of English. (Yes, I realize immigration was different then.)
But I think you get my point.
My grandparents were the same -- No sprechen Deutsch.
and that was difficult -- but it wasn't mandated by law.