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Lean Green Energy Producing Machine
Author: BobR
Date: 08/19/2013 12:59:50
When it comes to environmental "issues", the lines seem to be pretty clearly drawn. The Republicans are pro-oil (and coal) and the Democrats are pro-renewables. Both parties are against their opposites (who can forget Sarah Palin's "Drill baby, drill!"). Do the parties positions reflect their voting members' positions? Does the Republican party's claim of prohibitive cost for solar and wind hold water? The answer is no to both.
It seems the lines got drawn back in 1980. President Richard Nixon was the last Republican to take action to protect the environment, creating the EPA. President Jimmy Carter installed solar panels on the White House roof as a token gesture to promote clean energy. When President Ronald Reagan took office, he promptly had them removed. The ridiculing of "tree-huggers" who promote renewable energy has been a Republican meme ever since.
President Barack Obama has brought the fight for clean energy back to the forefront. He is redoing Carter's attempt at promoting clean energy by reinstalling solar panels on the White House roof. The energy they collect will be used to help power the residence portion of the White House:
I haven't seen any Republican opposition to this. Republican opposition to "green energy", however, is legendary. As recently as June, Republican politicians have been claiming that green energy is too expensive and will result in the loss of jobs:
Oil, coal, and natural gas are the darlings of the Republican party. It's no wonder, of course. They and their backers come from the industry, so there is a natural inclination to ensure their revenue stream. What they don't like to talk about is that some of their revenue stream comes from the taxpayers. Subsidies in the form of tax breaks and credits are a huge chunk of change for "dirty" energy when compared to "clean" energy:
Republican politicians are just reflecting the interests of theirfinanciers constituents though, right? Not really. Poll results released in April (which have gone completely under the radar) show that a majority of Repulbican voters want immediate action on renewable energy:
So once again, Republican politicians are ignoring their constituents desires so that they may feather their nests and the nests of their friends and campaign donors. These poll results should be a wake up call to them, but with so many gerrymandered districts in existence across the country, they have a better chance getting elected by appealing to the wingnuts to win primaries, since their election in their respective primaries is all but guaranteed.
But what of their claims that renewable energy is expensive? We've already seen that dirty energy costs taxpayers more in taxes. What about the actual cost of the energy? Germany has been implementing clean energy plants for several years now. It is to the point where they will begin shutting down fossil fuel generators because they are no longer cost effective. This graph shows the cost per KW/hr steadily decreasing below the levels of fossil and even nuclear fuels:
That is an oilman's worst nightmare. This is why the oil companies want to bury clean energy. This is why the oil families want to keep energy subsidies in their pockets. It's the same thought process behind trying to kill Obamacare before the benefits are felt nationwide - once the American people realize that they are better off, there's no turning back.
Republicans can no longer claim that green energy is "too expensive". They can no longer claim Americans don't want it. Their transparent appeals to prop up a 20th century technology that is on life support ring hollow. It is time for oil and coal to go the way of the typewriter and the CRT television and the cassette tape. America wants it, and they can't afford not to.
It seems the lines got drawn back in 1980. President Richard Nixon was the last Republican to take action to protect the environment, creating the EPA. President Jimmy Carter installed solar panels on the White House roof as a token gesture to promote clean energy. When President Ronald Reagan took office, he promptly had them removed. The ridiculing of "tree-huggers" who promote renewable energy has been a Republican meme ever since.
President Barack Obama has brought the fight for clean energy back to the forefront. He is redoing Carter's attempt at promoting clean energy by reinstalling solar panels on the White House roof. The energy they collect will be used to help power the residence portion of the White House:
After nearly three years, the White House began installing solar panels on the First Family’s residence this week, a White House official confirmed Thursday.
The Obama administration had pledged in October 2010 to put solar panels on the White House as a sign of the president’s commitment to renewable energy.
The White House official, who asked not to be identified because the installation is in process, wrote in an e-mail the project is "a part of an energy retrofit that will improve the overall energy efficiency of the building."
[...]
Because of improvements in technology, the price of solar panels has dropped 97 percent since then, and now the solar industry employs more than 120,000 people and generates enough electricity to power more than 1.3 million American homes, according to Rhone Resch of the Solar Energy Industries Association.
I haven't seen any Republican opposition to this. Republican opposition to "green energy", however, is legendary. As recently as June, Republican politicians have been claiming that green energy is too expensive and will result in the loss of jobs:
Leading Republicans were using phrases like "anti-American" and "war on American energy" to describe President Obama's new plan to combat climate change, escalating the rhetoric even before the President's Georgetown University speech outlining his program.
"President Obama's anti-American energy plan will increase the price of energy and hurt job creation," Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., tweeted. Bachmann is a longtime climate change denier who has defended the presence of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
Obama plans to instruct the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to limit and reduce emissions from coal-burning power plants, which are the nation’s largest source of greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere. As with the Romney campaign in 2012, Congressional Republicans have come to the defense of coal.
Oil, coal, and natural gas are the darlings of the Republican party. It's no wonder, of course. They and their backers come from the industry, so there is a natural inclination to ensure their revenue stream. What they don't like to talk about is that some of their revenue stream comes from the taxpayers. Subsidies in the form of tax breaks and credits are a huge chunk of change for "dirty" energy when compared to "clean" energy:
Republican politicians are just reflecting the interests of their
A large majority of respondents(77%) support using renewable energy in America much more or somewhat more than it is used today (51% and 26%, respectively). Among those who support expanded use of renewable energy, the most common preferred timing for taking such action is “immediately” (69%).
A slight majority of all respondents(52%) support using fossil fuelsin American much less or somewhat less than it is used today (21% and 31%, respectively). Among those who support reduced use of fossil fuels, the most common preferred timing is “immediately” (52%). By a margin of almost 2 to 1 (64% vs. 35%), respondents say America should take action to reduce our fossil fuel use.
So once again, Republican politicians are ignoring their constituents desires so that they may feather their nests and the nests of their friends and campaign donors. These poll results should be a wake up call to them, but with so many gerrymandered districts in existence across the country, they have a better chance getting elected by appealing to the wingnuts to win primaries, since their election in their respective primaries is all but guaranteed.
But what of their claims that renewable energy is expensive? We've already seen that dirty energy costs taxpayers more in taxes. What about the actual cost of the energy? Germany has been implementing clean energy plants for several years now. It is to the point where they will begin shutting down fossil fuel generators because they are no longer cost effective. This graph shows the cost per KW/hr steadily decreasing below the levels of fossil and even nuclear fuels:
That is an oilman's worst nightmare. This is why the oil companies want to bury clean energy. This is why the oil families want to keep energy subsidies in their pockets. It's the same thought process behind trying to kill Obamacare before the benefits are felt nationwide - once the American people realize that they are better off, there's no turning back.
Republicans can no longer claim that green energy is "too expensive". They can no longer claim Americans don't want it. Their transparent appeals to prop up a 20th century technology that is on life support ring hollow. It is time for oil and coal to go the way of the typewriter and the CRT television and the cassette tape. America wants it, and they can't afford not to.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
wickedpam on 08/19/2013 13:16:34
wickedpam on 08/19/2013 13:16:34
Morning 
Comment by 
Raine on 08/19/2013 13:17:57
Raine on 08/19/2013 13:17:57
Morning! 
Testing this:
Testing this:
Comment by 
Scoopster on 08/19/2013 13:20:23
Scoopster on 08/19/2013 13:20:23
Mornin' all.. 
ACK the milk went bad over the weekend! My coffee's ruined! 
So it seems
has some new work coming out (or does he?).. here's the cover art:
ACK the milk went bad over the weekend! My coffee's ruined! So it seems
has some new work coming out (or does he?).. here's the cover art:
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 13:29:19
No. Way.
If that is true, that is the best thing ever this moment.
Raine on 08/19/2013 13:29:19
Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all..
So it seems
If that is true, that is the best thing ever this moment.
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 13:31:29
Raine on 08/19/2013 13:31:29
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 13:37:28
Raine on 08/19/2013 13:37:28
BTW, the person who put that up on youtube is associated with the twitter account 3rdeyegirl is prince's certified account. So unless he's playing a massive joke (awesome all on its own) he's dropping an album!
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 13:45:25
Since when did Prince look like Dave Chapelle?
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 13:45:25
Quote by Raine:No. Way.Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all..
So it seems
If that is true, that is the best thing ever this moment.
Since when did Prince look like Dave Chapelle?
Comment by Scoopster on 08/19/2013 13:56:38
Scoopster on 08/19/2013 13:56:38
Hehe you guys put it together.. It is new music.. they just lifted the pic from a Chappele's Show skit
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 13:57:20
Raine on 08/19/2013 13:57:20
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 13:58:03
Yes, and I LOVE it! 
Raine on 08/19/2013 13:58:03
Quote by Scoopster:
Hehe you guys put it together.. It is new music.. they just lifted the pic from a Chappele's Show skit
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 13:59:08
Raine on 08/19/2013 13:59:08
I think Jim should disclose that FOTPF isn't a neutral source to use when talking about Manning Snowden and Wikileaks.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 14:04:30
Then this is genius!
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 14:04:30
Quote by Raine:Yes, and I LOVE it!Quote by Scoopster:
Hehe you guys put it together.. It is new music.. they just lifted the pic from a Chappele's Show skit
Then this is genius!
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 14:27:04
Raine on 08/19/2013 14:27:04
Comment by Will in Chicago on 08/19/2013 14:35:16
Will in Chicago on 08/19/2013 14:35:16
Hello, bloggers!! BobR, thank you for a blog on an important topic - renewable energy.
We do not have capitalism in the energy sector, but crony capitalism. We have oil and coal companies living off public subsidies, while creating such horrors as fracking and mountaintop removal. I fear that the GOP opposition to renewable energy and to science will cause us to lag behind other nations in terms of creating a sustainable economy and advancing scientific research.
We do not have capitalism in the energy sector, but crony capitalism. We have oil and coal companies living off public subsidies, while creating such horrors as fracking and mountaintop removal. I fear that the GOP opposition to renewable energy and to science will cause us to lag behind other nations in terms of creating a sustainable economy and advancing scientific research.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/19/2013 14:35:33
I don't even care about sports and even I think this guy is a total douche
wickedpam on 08/19/2013 14:35:33
Quote by Raine:Wow indeed.Quote by Mondobubba:
Next on "Everybody Hates A-Rod." Wow.
I don't even care about sports and even I think this guy is a total douche
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 14:59:14
Raine on 08/19/2013 14:59:14
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 15:08:19
Ted's a bit of mook, despite being a Harvard Law man.
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 15:08:19
Quote by Raine:He didn't know?Quote by Mondobubba:
Ted Cruz is Canadian, eh?
Ted's a bit of mook, despite being a Harvard Law man.
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 15:33:41
Raine on 08/19/2013 15:33:41
Question:
Why the Fuck did GG send his husband to mule documents?
Why the Fuck did GG send his husband to mule documents?
Comment by wickedpam on 08/19/2013 15:42:08
he's becoming a stunt queen?
What the deets on this, haven not paid attention to anything since last week
wickedpam on 08/19/2013 15:42:08
Quote by Raine:
Question:
Why the Fuck did GG send his husband to mule documents?
he's becoming a stunt queen?
What the deets on this, haven not paid attention to anything since last week
BobR
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 15:45:24
Are you pulling things out of my personal style manual?
You do raise a good point.
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 15:45:24
Quote by Raine:
Question:
Why the Fuck did GG send his husband to mule documents?
Are you pulling things out of my personal style manual? You do raise a good point.
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 15:51:17
Here is GGs take.
And here is a NYT piece.
And here is Bob Cesca's ponderance
Raine on 08/19/2013 15:51:17
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Question:
Why the Fuck did GG send his husband to mule documents?
he's becoming a stunt queen?
What the deets on this, haven not paid attention to anything since last week
And here is a NYT piece.
And here is Bob Cesca's ponderance
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 15:58:41
Raine on 08/19/2013 15:58:41
Here is what I believe:
Snowden stole documents. GG has said he and Laura Poitras have that information.
Miranda went to see Ms. Poitras.
Greenwald is absolutely shocked and angry that his - carrying all kinds of computer equipment, devices, etc., after going to Berlin for the sole purpose of meeting Greenwald's business partner about the Snowden thing - would be detained and questioned.
Does GG REALLY think at this point he's not going to be watched?
Snowden stole documents. GG has said he and Laura Poitras have that information.
Miranda went to see Ms. Poitras.
Greenwald is absolutely shocked and angry that his - carrying all kinds of computer equipment, devices, etc., after going to Berlin for the sole purpose of meeting Greenwald's business partner about the Snowden thing - would be detained and questioned.
Does GG REALLY think at this point he's not going to be watched?
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 16:08:42
Raine on 08/19/2013 16:08:42
Ed's coming back to weeknights?
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 16:09:08
Raine on 08/19/2013 16:09:08
Holy SHIT! he's taking over tweety's spot!
Comment by wickedpam on 08/19/2013 16:10:43
To me its feigned naivete on his part.
wickedpam on 08/19/2013 16:10:43
Quote by Raine:
Here is what I believe:
Snowden stole documents. GG has said he and Laura Poitras have that information.
Miranda went to see Ms. Poitras.
Greenwald is absolutely shocked and angry that his - carrying all kinds of computer equipment, devices, etc., after going to Berlin for the sole purpose of meeting Greenwald's business partner about the Snowden thing - would be detained and questioned.
Does GG REALLY think at this point he's not going to be watched?
To me its feigned naivete on his part.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 16:11:39
Cesca had the same question I did. Seriously why didn't these a-holes just FTP this crap? Are they stupid?
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 16:11:39
Quote by Raine:Here is GGs take.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Question:
Why the Fuck did GG send his husband to mule documents?
he's becoming a stunt queen?
What the deets on this, haven not paid attention to anything since last week
And here is a NYT piece.
And here is Bob Cesca's ponderance
Cesca had the same question I did. Seriously why didn't these a-holes just FTP this crap? Are they stupid?
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 16:14:14
What? Wow. Wait. Tweety's on at 5 and then 7.
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 16:14:14
Quote by Raine:
Holy SHIT! he's taking over tweety's spot!
What? Wow. Wait. Tweety's on at 5 and then 7.
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 16:18:17
HE's only going to air at 7 from now on. 5 pm was the live live show, I assume he's going to now do it at 7?
Tweety has had those two slots for a LONG time.
Raine on 08/19/2013 16:18:17
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
Holy SHIT! he's taking over tweety's spot!
What? Wow. Wait. Tweety's on at 5 and then 7.
HE's only going to air at 7 from now on. 5 pm was the live live show, I assume he's going to now do it at 7?
Tweety has had those two slots for a LONG time.
Comment by 
TriSec on 08/19/2013 16:18:32
TriSec on 08/19/2013 16:18:32
Comrades.
Passing through.
Passing through.
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 16:20:06
I've been trying to figure this out as well.
REALLY stupid move -- as I said -- does he really think they are not being watched?
Raine on 08/19/2013 16:20:06
Quote by Mondobubba:
Cesca had the same question I did. Seriously why didn't these a-holes just FTP this crap? Are they stupid?
REALLY stupid move -- as I said -- does he really think they are not being watched?
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 16:22:01
Raine on 08/19/2013 16:22:01
Greenwald is in possession of what he himself said could bring the USA to its knees and he's naive enough to think that no one would be watching he and his husbands every move?
The cognitive dissonance is strong here.
The cognitive dissonance is strong here.
Comment by TriSec on 08/19/2013 16:23:52
TriSec on 08/19/2013 16:23:52
Every pitcher in baseball should be headhunting A-Rod at every single at-bat. Let MLB deal with that backlash.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/19/2013 16:26:14
wickedpam on 08/19/2013 16:26:14
ok media confession - my view of Bob Cesca is colored 'cause I remember him as BO Bob from the Don & Mike show where he interned.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 16:26:37
There was that bit at the end about the stolen laptop. If I was going archive my stolen documents, I'm make sure they were encrypted and not on a PC, but in some sort of cloud based anonymous storage. I'd also make a hard copy on a CD and say, I dunno put it it a safe deposit box? But that's just me.
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 16:26:37
Quote by Raine:I've been trying to figure this out as well.Quote by Mondobubba:
Cesca had the same question I did. Seriously why didn't these a-holes just FTP this crap? Are they stupid?
REALLY stupid move -- as I said -- does he really think they are not being watched?
There was that bit at the end about the stolen laptop. If I was going archive my stolen documents, I'm make sure they were encrypted and not on a PC, but in some sort of cloud based anonymous storage. I'd also make a hard copy on a CD and say, I dunno put it it a safe deposit box? But that's just me.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 16:28:30
I like this idea. I like it a lot. I actually
this idea. Couldn't happen to a nicer douchenozzle.
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 16:28:30
Quote by TriSec:
Every pitcher in baseball should be headhunting A-Rod at every single at-bat. Let MLB deal with that backlash.
I like this idea. I like it a lot. I actually
this idea. Couldn't happen to a nicer douchenozzle.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/19/2013 16:33:09
wickedpam on 08/19/2013 16:33:09
ugh, Nicole's in for Randi for 2 weeks - have to find something else to listen too in the afternoon.
Comment by Scoopster on 08/19/2013 16:52:04
The stupidity and pie fighting is all over the damn place in this DKos thread about the NYT piece. I'm still working to put together a good general definition for outrage tourism so maybe I'll get some inspiration here.
Scoopster on 08/19/2013 16:52:04
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:I've been trying to figure this out as well.Quote by Mondobubba:
Cesca had the same question I did. Seriously why didn't these a-holes just FTP this crap? Are they stupid?
REALLY stupid move -- as I said -- does he really think they are not being watched?
There was that bit at the end about the stolen laptop. If I was going archive my stolen documents, I'm make sure they were encrypted and not on a PC, but in some sort of cloud based anonymous storage. I'd also make a hard copy on a CD and say, I dunno put it it a safe deposit box? But that's just me.
The stupidity and pie fighting is all over the damn place in this DKos thread about the NYT piece. I'm still working to put together a good general definition for outrage tourism so maybe I'll get some inspiration here.
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 17:10:44
Savage is going to have to give a little more information about his sources -- this I believe. I don't believe tho, for one minute he would say something like that without knowing what he is talking about.
The pie fighting is going on at DU - It's really ugly over there.
When this first started -- GG kept saying the story wasn't about him -- well guess what? It is.
Raine on 08/19/2013 17:10:44
Quote by Scoopster:
The stupidity and pie fighting is all over the damn place in this DKos thread about the NYT piece. I'm still working to put together a good general definition for outrage tourism so maybe I'll get some inspiration here.
The pie fighting is going on at DU - It's really ugly over there.
When this first started -- GG kept saying the story wasn't about him -- well guess what? It is.
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 17:12:14
Personally -- I don;t think GG knows what he is doing and is in over his head.
I think he got played by Snowden and Russia. Putin is sipping his vodka Right now like a villain in a mystery novel.
Raine on 08/19/2013 17:12:14
Quote by Mondobubba:
There was that bit at the end about the stolen laptop. If I was going archive my stolen documents, I'm make sure they were encrypted and not on a PC, but in some sort of cloud based anonymous storage. I'd also make a hard copy on a CD and say, I dunno put it it a safe deposit box? But that's just me.
I think he got played by Snowden and Russia. Putin is sipping his vodka Right now like a villain in a mystery novel.
Comment by 
livingonli on 08/19/2013 17:13:47
There's still Thom's show which I have to listen online to because SiriusXM Progress (formerly Left) moved Signiriloe's show over from OutQ which will at least be good when Lizz fills in for him every now and then.
livingonli on 08/19/2013 17:13:47
Quote by wickedpam:
ugh, Nicole's in for Randi for 2 weeks - have to find something else to listen too in the afternoon.
There's still Thom's show which I have to listen online to because SiriusXM Progress (formerly Left) moved Signiriloe's show over from OutQ which will at least be good when Lizz fills in for him every now and then.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/19/2013 17:17:46
Thom's super smart but I can only listen to so much before I want to start curling into the fetal position and opening a vein. I need some happy visions of the future - and by happy I mean positive not apocalyptic.
wickedpam on 08/19/2013 17:17:46
Quote by livingonli:Quote by wickedpam:
ugh, Nicole's in for Randi for 2 weeks - have to find something else to listen too in the afternoon.
There's still Thom's show which I have to listen online to because SiriusXM Progress (formerly Left) moved Signiriloe's show over from OutQ which will at least be good when Lizz fills in for him every now and then.
Thom's super smart but I can only listen to so much before I want to start curling into the fetal position and opening a vein. I need some happy visions of the future - and by happy I mean positive not apocalyptic.
Comment by Raine on 08/19/2013 17:21:54
Raine on 08/19/2013 17:21:54
From that Kos link that scoop posted: You see, this is why I have a hard time taking GG serioously. Y'all know I try to follow the wait and see rule about stories. GG reacts first time and time again and then tweaks the story. I think that is really not responsible.
Thanks to the poster below for noting that The Guardian only edited and updated its story to acknowledge the true purpose of Miranda's trip -- to visit Poitras -- AFTER the NYT article appeared. So it would appear, as they have been on other stories, that The Guardian itself was just as misleading in its initial article as Greenwald was in all of his comments.
12:43 AM PT: Based on repeated attempted deflections in the comments, I offer the following for comparison, without further comment:
"Abusive government thugs bent on destroying the press detained my poor partner just because we're together!"
vs.
"Authorities detained my partner and seized the stolen classified documents he was carrying, and then let him go"
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 17:37:05
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 17:37:05
I dnno about you, but I've been busy dramatically synthesizing best-of-breed partnerships. What have you been doing at work?
Intrinsically engaging out-of-the-box benefits perhaps?
Intrinsically engaging out-of-the-box benefits perhaps?
Comment by livingonli on 08/19/2013 17:55:54
livingonli on 08/19/2013 17:55:54
With all the crap around my bankruptcy, I never got around to taking vacation time this summer. And now I noticed I'm close to my maximum carry-over hours so I am taking vacation time in September and October to get some needed vacation time and to start burning off the hours I need to burn off and get the carryover down so I don't lose vacation time.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 18:06:47
The problem with the GG coverage is the outrage tourist don't go back and look at any of the follow up reporting. So, the informed voices get drowned out by the mooks.
Mondobubba on 08/19/2013 18:06:47
Quote by Raine:
From that Kos link that scoop posted:You see, this is why I have a hard time taking GG serioously. Y'all know I try to follow the wait and see rule about stories. GG reacts first time and time again and then tweaks the story. I think that is really not responsible.Thanks to the poster below for noting that The Guardian only edited and updated its story to acknowledge the true purpose of Miranda's trip -- to visit Poitras -- AFTER the NYT article appeared. So it would appear, as they have been on other stories, that The Guardian itself was just as misleading in its initial article as Greenwald was in all of his comments.
12:43 AM PT: Based on repeated attempted deflections in the comments, I offer the following for comparison, without further comment:
"Abusive government thugs bent on destroying the press detained my poor partner just because we're together!"
vs.
"Authorities detained my partner and seized the stolen classified documents he was carrying, and then let him go"
The problem with the GG coverage is the outrage tourist don't go back and look at any of the follow up reporting. So, the informed voices get drowned out by the mooks.