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The tragedy of Zimbabwe
Author: Will in Chicago
Date: 07/02/2008 08:40:46
African leaders are calling for unity in Zimbabwe after Friday’s sham election – an election that points out how a regime can abuse its power and use fear and violence to achieve political ends. The story of Zimbabwe should be seen not just as a tragedy, but as a cautionary tale of what can happen when one man or one branch of the government has too much power and when those with power chose to ignore the humanity of others.
While the administration of George W. Bush has condemned the fraudulent elections and the violence, the power and prestige of the United States is greatly diminished. Beyond the problems here with the 2000 and 2004 elections, the torture of prisoners at places like Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, extraordinary rendition of prisoners to foreign countries, and the wire-tapping of American citizens without a warrant has undermined the claim to moral authority that the United States could have made in the recent past. John F. Kennedy’s shining city on a hill has gone dim under the shadow of the Bush administration and its policies and the world no longer looks to us for moral leadership.
While Reuters reports that Mugabe leaves summit under pressure from AU rebuff, it has largely been pressure from African nations and the European Union that seems to have caused President Mugabe to head back home. At one time, the U.S. would have lead the way in condemning the sorts of abuses that have happened recently – from election fraud to violence against political opponents and their families.
Here is an article from the June 30, 2008 online edition of Newsweek that details some of the most recent brutality.
What Freeth went through is related in the following video [CNN] New Wave of Violence follows Zimbabwe Election:
Sadly, there are many more stories like this one to relate - with innocent civilians paying the price of an unjust regime's effort to stay in power at any cost.
Take this recent story from the Daily Telegraph:
Sadly, this is not the first incident of political violence. Take this story from the Times of London from June 12, 2008 (Yes, Rupert Murdoch owns the paper – but there are many reports like this.)
Yes, not even children are safe from the political violence, as can be seen again in the case of another young child. (Again, from the Times of London on June 29, 2008)
Blessing may never be able to walk properly because of his injuries. If this is indeed the case, I can only imagine the difficulty that Blessing Mabhena's parents will have in trying to explain his injuries and the cruelty of those who caused them. I do not use the word evil lightly, but I will use it whenever innocent people are terrorized, harmed, or murdered.
While no country on the planet is perfect, the abuses in Zimbabwe are very troubling. However, the United States of America is now in a weaker position than in any time since the end of the Vietnam War to claim the moral high ground. This is a sad and unintended consequence of the Bush administration’s “war on terror.” (The Bush administration has perhaps cornered the market on unintended consequences, including ironically being the most effective recruiter that Osama bin Laden could imagine.) Now when we criticize the actions of other countries and their leaders - even when such abuses are apparent and well-documented - they can now point back at us over the horrors perpetrated by our own government in places like Abu Ghraib an Guantanamo. Like one of the symbols in the poem, the Rime of the Ancient Mariner, these places and the actions of the Bush administration have become a rotting albatross around our necks that we must chose to remove and acknowledge, even as we confront the cruelty around us and seek our own expiation.
The next administration has many tasks ahead of it, but one of the hardest will be to change the image that many now have of America. On September 12, 2001, the world stood with us. Indeed, there were demonstrations in SUPPORT of America in Tehran. Now, after the war in Iraq, there are many more people who will look at American claims to moral superiority with utter disdain.
Too often, when people read of tragedies in distant lands, they only think of numbers and statistics. While numbers and statistics are important in telling a story, we must remember that behind every statistic of injury and death that we read about from Zimbabwe, Iraq, Darfur or elsewhere, are human beings. They are someone's father, brother, son, mother, sister, or daughter. If, as I believe, every single human life is unique and precious, then the statistics are not just numbers. They represent affronts to both our common humanity and the uniqueness of each individual. The only way that the atrocities that are being committed against other human beings can occur is by someone choosing to deny the humanity of others. In war and in the commission of atrocities, the first step is always to demonize someone and set one's own group up as superior to others.
So, in addition to the American casualties, the allied casualties, the Afghani casualties and the Iraqi casualties, there are perhaps another category of uncounted victims of the failures of the Bush administration. They may be seen in places like Zimbabwe and Darfur, in Burma, in Tibet, and so many other lands as well. These are the people that the United States could have helped by more forcefully arguing for human rights and human dignity. We cannot save those who have been beat, tortured, or murdered while our eyes were focused elsewhere, but bringing an end to the failed foreign policy of the Bush administration means that we can perhaps begin to regain our credibility in the eyes of the world – and use that credibility and influence to try to discourage the sort of horror that has become all too commonplace in this new century.
Let us remember that even in the face of horror, people are not powerless. Brave men and women can take a stand, whether it is to pressure governments or to act individually as was done by such people as Oskar Schindler and Raoul Wallenberg in saving Jews from the death camps or Paul Rusesabagina chosing to save Tutsi refugees in Rwanda. Each in their own way denied the claim of tyrants that their power was absolute and that the people who were terrorized and killed were unimportant - or not even truly human. They remembered the humanity that the tyrants and their agents willfully ignored. They kept a humanity that too many people chose to abandon.
There is an old Jewish saying from the Talmud -"He who saves the life of one man, saves the world entire." This saying was inscribed on a ring by some of the people whom Oskar Schindler rescued. Schindler used the ring and a letter from the people he rescued to convince the Red Army that he was not of the perpetrators of the evil that they saw, but a man who did what he could to oppose it. As we reflect on the tragedies that we see in Zimbabwe and elsewhere, let us remember that we have the power to both save and change lives and the world - if we but find the courage within ourselves to take a stand in our own way and in our own time. In doing so, we may also save ourselves and our own humanity.
While the administration of George W. Bush has condemned the fraudulent elections and the violence, the power and prestige of the United States is greatly diminished. Beyond the problems here with the 2000 and 2004 elections, the torture of prisoners at places like Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, extraordinary rendition of prisoners to foreign countries, and the wire-tapping of American citizens without a warrant has undermined the claim to moral authority that the United States could have made in the recent past. John F. Kennedy’s shining city on a hill has gone dim under the shadow of the Bush administration and its policies and the world no longer looks to us for moral leadership.
While Reuters reports that Mugabe leaves summit under pressure from AU rebuff, it has largely been pressure from African nations and the European Union that seems to have caused President Mugabe to head back home. At one time, the U.S. would have lead the way in condemning the sorts of abuses that have happened recently – from election fraud to violence against political opponents and their families.
Here is an article from the June 30, 2008 online edition of Newsweek that details some of the most recent brutality.
A Brutal Toll
A group of white farmers bears the brunt of ZANU-PF's force.
By Rod Nordland | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Some details, such as timing and description of movements, in the following are altered for the safety of NEWSWEEK's reporter.
Ben Freeth did not expect to be alive today. Just after midnight this morning, the white farmer was lying face down next to a bonfire, beside Mike and Angela Campbell, his wife's parents. He had no idea where his own three small children and his wife, Laura, were, only that a marauding band of loyalists from the ruling ZANU-PF party was hitting all the white farms in their district near the town of Chegutu, about 60 miles southwest of Harare. The three had been abducted from their farm by an armed gang and brought to their base. By midnight, they had been beaten for seven hours, while their tormentors danced around the bonfire and told them they'd kill them. "I really thought we were all dead," he said. "It must have been our prayers that stopped it. I was praying, and all our friends were praying, and then they put us in a truck and dumped us beside the road outside Kadoma," a town about 25 miles away.
Why the ZANU-PF let them live isn't clear, but the reasons for the attack were plain. Freeth, who is British-born, and his in-laws, white Zimbabweans, are among a small band of white farmers who remain in the fertile agricultural area, the scene of many of the forced expropriations of commercial farms; from 300 white farmers at the beginning of the decade, only about 30 remain in that area. Nationally, the pattern is similar. Mt. Carmel Farm, which belongs to the Campbells and Freeths and produces mangoes for export and a variety of other crops on 1,200 hectares [about 3,000 acres], had been targeted for expropriation two years ago by Nathan Shamuyarira, the official spokesman for the ZANU-PF party, who arrived at their gate with an order signed by the minister of land and agriculture telling them to surrender the farm to him. Under a bill enacted by Robert Mugabe's government, land could be expropriated on an administrative order at any time if the ministry determined that it was justified. Most of the farms in their area have been handed over to Mugabe government officials, diplomats, judges and army officers, although the intention of the bill was to give land to the landless. Freeth and the Campbells fought back, however, taking their case to a tribunal of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) and arguing they were the victims of racial discrimination, in response to which the tribunal issued a restraining order. "We're challenging the land reform as a totally racist thing," Freeth said from his hospital bed in Harare (I've been asked not to identify the hospital). "We have neighbors who are black farmers who have not been targeted."
On top of that, during the election campaign, Freeth wrote an open letter that was widely disseminated outside of Zimbabwe detailing the intimidation of black farm workers, many of them supporters of the opposition MDC party, by ZANU-PF party activists—who rounded them up for all-night vigils and political harangues in the Chegutu area, often meting out beatings to workers on the Mt. Carmel farm and to MDC supporters. "None of us knows what will happen next," Freeth wrote. "Dictators like Mugabe do not step down. Like Hitler, they go on till their country is in ruins and their people are in rags. World leaders tut-tut as the crimes against humanity go on unhindered; but their perpetrators live on and travel the world with impunity."
What Freeth went through is related in the following video [CNN] New Wave of Violence follows Zimbabwe Election:
Sadly, there are many more stories like this one to relate - with innocent civilians paying the price of an unjust regime's effort to stay in power at any cost.
Take this recent story from the Daily Telegraph:
Zimbabwe: 'I saw Robert Mugabe's thugs beat a man to death'
By Louis Weston in Harare
Last Updated: 1:35PM BST 27/06/2008
The hollow victory Robert Mugabe will win in today's Zimbabwean election is not enough for his thugs.
Their onslaught of beating and killing carried on unabated yesterday.
Even after Morgan Tsvangirai, the Movement for Democratic Change leader, pulled out of the poll on Sunday because of mounting violence against his supporters, Mr Mugabe's Zanu-PF militia have continued their attacks.
Japhet Kenneth, 36, told The Telegraph how the militia men came for him again this week – he had already been beaten up two weeks ago.
They took him to their base on a seized farm in Seke constituency, a few miles south of the capital Harare, tied him to a pole with wire and gave him a severe beating.
And as he watched from a few feet away, one of his colleagues was murdered.
"I saw with my own eyes," said Mr Kenneth "He was beaten with a rock."
Sadly, this is not the first incident of political violence. Take this story from the Times of London from June 12, 2008 (Yes, Rupert Murdoch owns the paper – but there are many reports like this.)
Robert Mugabe's militia burn opponent’s wife alive
Jan Raath in Mhondoro
The men who pulled up in three white pickup trucks were looking for Patson Chipiro, head of the Zimbabwean opposition party in Mhondoro district. His wife, Dadirai, told them he was in Harare but would be back later in the day, and the men departed.
An hour later they were back. They grabbed Mrs Chipiro and chopped off one of her hands and both her feet. Then they threw her into her hut, locked the door and threw a petrol bomb through the window.
The killing last Friday – one of the most grotesque atrocities committed by Robert Mugabe’s regime since independence in 1980 – was carried out on a wave of worsening brutality before the run-off presidential elections in just over two weeks. It echoed the activities of Foday Sankoh, the rebel leader in the Sierra Leone civil war that ended in 2002, whose trade-mark was to chop off hands and feet.
Mrs Chipiro, 45, a former pre-school teacher, was the second wife of a junior official of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) burnt alive last Friday by Zanu (PF) militiamen. Pamela Pasvani, the 21-year-old pregnant wife of a local councillor in Harare, did not suffer mutilation but died later of her burns; his six-year-old son perished in the flames.
Yes, not even children are safe from the political violence, as can be seen again in the case of another young child. (Again, from the Times of London on June 29, 2008)
Robert Mugabe’s thugs shout: ‘Let’s kill the baby’
Christina Lamb
A baby boy had both legs broken by supporters of President Robert Mugabe to punish his father for being an opposition councillor in Zimbabwe.
Blessing Mabhena, aged 11 months, was seized from a bed and flung down with force as his mother, Agnes, hid from the thugs, convinced that they were about to murder her.
She heard one of them say, “Let’s kill the baby”, before Blessing was hurled on to a bare concrete floor.
Blessing may never be able to walk properly because of his injuries. If this is indeed the case, I can only imagine the difficulty that Blessing Mabhena's parents will have in trying to explain his injuries and the cruelty of those who caused them. I do not use the word evil lightly, but I will use it whenever innocent people are terrorized, harmed, or murdered.
While no country on the planet is perfect, the abuses in Zimbabwe are very troubling. However, the United States of America is now in a weaker position than in any time since the end of the Vietnam War to claim the moral high ground. This is a sad and unintended consequence of the Bush administration’s “war on terror.” (The Bush administration has perhaps cornered the market on unintended consequences, including ironically being the most effective recruiter that Osama bin Laden could imagine.) Now when we criticize the actions of other countries and their leaders - even when such abuses are apparent and well-documented - they can now point back at us over the horrors perpetrated by our own government in places like Abu Ghraib an Guantanamo. Like one of the symbols in the poem, the Rime of the Ancient Mariner, these places and the actions of the Bush administration have become a rotting albatross around our necks that we must chose to remove and acknowledge, even as we confront the cruelty around us and seek our own expiation.
The next administration has many tasks ahead of it, but one of the hardest will be to change the image that many now have of America. On September 12, 2001, the world stood with us. Indeed, there were demonstrations in SUPPORT of America in Tehran. Now, after the war in Iraq, there are many more people who will look at American claims to moral superiority with utter disdain.
Too often, when people read of tragedies in distant lands, they only think of numbers and statistics. While numbers and statistics are important in telling a story, we must remember that behind every statistic of injury and death that we read about from Zimbabwe, Iraq, Darfur or elsewhere, are human beings. They are someone's father, brother, son, mother, sister, or daughter. If, as I believe, every single human life is unique and precious, then the statistics are not just numbers. They represent affronts to both our common humanity and the uniqueness of each individual. The only way that the atrocities that are being committed against other human beings can occur is by someone choosing to deny the humanity of others. In war and in the commission of atrocities, the first step is always to demonize someone and set one's own group up as superior to others.
So, in addition to the American casualties, the allied casualties, the Afghani casualties and the Iraqi casualties, there are perhaps another category of uncounted victims of the failures of the Bush administration. They may be seen in places like Zimbabwe and Darfur, in Burma, in Tibet, and so many other lands as well. These are the people that the United States could have helped by more forcefully arguing for human rights and human dignity. We cannot save those who have been beat, tortured, or murdered while our eyes were focused elsewhere, but bringing an end to the failed foreign policy of the Bush administration means that we can perhaps begin to regain our credibility in the eyes of the world – and use that credibility and influence to try to discourage the sort of horror that has become all too commonplace in this new century.
Let us remember that even in the face of horror, people are not powerless. Brave men and women can take a stand, whether it is to pressure governments or to act individually as was done by such people as Oskar Schindler and Raoul Wallenberg in saving Jews from the death camps or Paul Rusesabagina chosing to save Tutsi refugees in Rwanda. Each in their own way denied the claim of tyrants that their power was absolute and that the people who were terrorized and killed were unimportant - or not even truly human. They remembered the humanity that the tyrants and their agents willfully ignored. They kept a humanity that too many people chose to abandon.
There is an old Jewish saying from the Talmud -"He who saves the life of one man, saves the world entire." This saying was inscribed on a ring by some of the people whom Oskar Schindler rescued. Schindler used the ring and a letter from the people he rescued to convince the Red Army that he was not of the perpetrators of the evil that they saw, but a man who did what he could to oppose it. As we reflect on the tragedies that we see in Zimbabwe and elsewhere, let us remember that we have the power to both save and change lives and the world - if we but find the courage within ourselves to take a stand in our own way and in our own time. In doing so, we may also save ourselves and our own humanity.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
TriSec on 07/02/2008 12:14:53
A hard read, Will....but we're all better for your writing it today. With each passing day, it becomes more apparent how vital to the United States, and indeed the world, November 4th is going to be.
TriSec on 07/02/2008 12:14:53
A hard read, Will....but we're all better for your writing it today. With each passing day, it becomes more apparent how vital to the United States, and indeed the world, November 4th is going to be.
Comment by 
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 12:28:18
Morning :hug:
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 12:28:18
Morning :hug:
Comment by 
Raine on 07/02/2008 12:45:47
Raine on 07/02/2008 12:45:47
Good morning. Excellent post this morning Will.
:coffee: <------- keep these coming!
:coffee: <------- keep these coming!
Comment by 
Scoopster on 07/02/2008 12:46:32
Scoopster on 07/02/2008 12:46:32
I don't get why there hasn't been more worldwide outrage at the voter intimidation that went on in that election. The only reason I can think of is that there is a worldwide effort to cover-up and dismiss voter intimidation by those in power. We've even experienced it here in this country on a wide scale, and I'm not just talking about blacks being purged from voter rolls.
BTW yesterday, here at home in lil' Rhody, the state supreme court (the only governmental body besides the governor's seat that is owned by Republicans) overturned a landmark decision that would have forced paint manufacturers to help pay for the safe removal of lead paint from buildings across the state. This reversal keeps billions of dollars in the hands of corporate paint giants like Sherwin Williams, and leaves the bill to landlords and homeowners who also have to pay for the medical care and special education of kids who are affected physically by the effects of lead poisoning. Score another one for the global corporate puppet masters.
Ow.. that hurt! Typing that is.. my shoulder's giving me some really horrific pain today! I'm leaving work early to go see a doctor.
BTW yesterday, here at home in lil' Rhody, the state supreme court (the only governmental body besides the governor's seat that is owned by Republicans) overturned a landmark decision that would have forced paint manufacturers to help pay for the safe removal of lead paint from buildings across the state. This reversal keeps billions of dollars in the hands of corporate paint giants like Sherwin Williams, and leaves the bill to landlords and homeowners who also have to pay for the medical care and special education of kids who are affected physically by the effects of lead poisoning. Score another one for the global corporate puppet masters.
Ow.. that hurt! Typing that is.. my shoulder's giving me some really horrific pain today! I'm leaving work early to go see a doctor.
Comment by 
clintster on 07/02/2008 12:48:23
clintster on 07/02/2008 12:48:23
Horrific, absolutely horrific. I heard an interview with Mugabe's spokesmaqn last week on NPR, and Robert Siegel sounded like he wanted to let loose on this guy for spreading the lies that he was perpetuating. A lot of "the British and Americans are trying to run our elections." A lot of "you don't understand how we do democracy in Zimbabwe." Basically the same crap that all dictators spew when faced with their own awfulness.
Last week I was listening to Stevie Wonder on my iPod. He was singing "Master Blaster" and got to the lyrics:
Peace has come to Zimbabwe
Third World's right on the one
Now's the time for celebration
'Cause we've only just begun
and I had to stop it there. I know that when he wrote the song in 1980, Stevie (and the world) had no idea that the hope of independence in that little nation would become the despair and terror that has festered there under Mugabe, but it was still painful to listen to. Hopefully soon, I can listen again.
Last week I was listening to Stevie Wonder on my iPod. He was singing "Master Blaster" and got to the lyrics:
Peace has come to Zimbabwe
Third World's right on the one
Now's the time for celebration
'Cause we've only just begun
and I had to stop it there. I know that when he wrote the song in 1980, Stevie (and the world) had no idea that the hope of independence in that little nation would become the despair and terror that has festered there under Mugabe, but it was still painful to listen to. Hopefully soon, I can listen again.
Comment by clintster on 07/02/2008 12:51:19
clintster on 07/02/2008 12:51:19
Psst, Raine. You and Bobber want to get together for lunch? I'm heading into Decatur today to run some papers to the Mrs.
Comment by 
m-hadley on 07/02/2008 12:57:03
m-hadley on 07/02/2008 12:57:03
Mornin' everybody,
I winced as I read your excellent post this morning Will, and Scoopster - I heard about that RI Sup Ct Decision - talk about legislating from the bench - didn't they overturn a jury verdict? How're you doing, Raine and Mala? Mala, How's your Mom doing with her new job? Has anybody heard from Shelagh in awhile? My last day of work this week - tomorrow I head out on the highway 600+ miles - a good day's drive. :airhump:
Cheers,
mfaye
:hug:
I winced as I read your excellent post this morning Will, and Scoopster - I heard about that RI Sup Ct Decision - talk about legislating from the bench - didn't they overturn a jury verdict? How're you doing, Raine and Mala? Mala, How's your Mom doing with her new job? Has anybody heard from Shelagh in awhile? My last day of work this week - tomorrow I head out on the highway 600+ miles - a good day's drive. :airhump:
Cheers,
mfaye
:hug:
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 12:58:39
Why -- that sounds great. Bobber is working from home today, so it should be no problem.
Raine on 07/02/2008 12:58:39
Quote by clintster:
Psst, Raine. You and Bobber want to get together for lunch? I'm heading into Decatur today to run some papers to the Mrs.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 13:01:15
Raine on 07/02/2008 13:01:15
They overturned a Jury decision?!?! 
Comment by m-hadley on 07/02/2008 13:03:17
m-hadley on 07/02/2008 13:03:17
Mornin' TriSec and Clintster,
Didn't mean to leave yous guys out
Wish I could meet you all for lunch today :)
Cheers,
mfaye
:peace:
Didn't mean to leave yous guys out
Wish I could meet you all for lunch today :)Cheers,
mfaye
:peace:
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 13:11:11
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 13:11:11
Yah know what - McCain has made his career being a "prisoner of war". It's time to let that lie in the past. There are a lot of other people who were there too and they don't mention it every 5 minutes.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 13:12:35
Raine on 07/02/2008 13:12:35
Comment by clintster on 07/02/2008 13:13:00
clintster on 07/02/2008 13:13:00
Mornin, Faye, TriSec, Raine, Pam, Scoop and all y'alls!
Wednesdees with Frangela! Woo-hooooo!!!
Wednesdees with Frangela! Woo-hooooo!!!
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 13:14:05
That would be nce, huh?
I get really pissed that he himself is running this as part of his platform and then he screams foul if someone talks about it.
Raine on 07/02/2008 13:14:05
Quote by wickedpam:
Yah know what - McCain has made his career being a "prisoner of war". It's time to let that lie in the past. There are a lot of other people who were there too and they don't mention it every 5 minutes.
I get really pissed that he himself is running this as part of his platform and then he screams foul if someone talks about it.
Comment by 
BobR on 07/02/2008 13:17:39
BobR on 07/02/2008 13:17:39
morning folks... :coffee:
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 13:18:07
Raine on 07/02/2008 13:18:07
Wow. Will I just noticed what time you posted the blog! did you get any sleep at all?
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 13:18:57
TriSec on 07/02/2008 13:18:57
Does anybody here pick up the Ring of Fire podcast?
Did the 3/22 podcast mysteriously appear in your iTunes today?
It's a good one though, about thimerisol in your vaccines...
Did the 3/22 podcast mysteriously appear in your iTunes today?
It's a good one though, about thimerisol in your vaccines...
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 13:21:14
TriSec on 07/02/2008 13:21:14
Ah, Gen Clark continues to be correct in this instance. I'm reminded of President Kennedy who when asked about his being a hero in WWII remarked "It was involuntary; they sank my boat..."
I said it the other day, plenty of politicians out there have military and combat experience...the last one with command experience, which is a different beast entirely, appears to be Eisenhower.
I said it the other day, plenty of politicians out there have military and combat experience...the last one with command experience, which is a different beast entirely, appears to be Eisenhower.
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 13:29:02
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 13:29:02
I see Eisenhower and Kenndey as classier people.
I was commenting the other day as I drove by yet another car with a Bronze Star license plate, that I respected more the people who had those medals and didn't say anything about them then the people who advertise it.
I was commenting the other day as I drove by yet another car with a Bronze Star license plate, that I respected more the people who had those medals and didn't say anything about them then the people who advertise it.
Comment by Scoopster on 07/02/2008 13:29:37
Scoopster on 07/02/2008 13:29:37
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 13:32:06
Hell, why not?
Instead of the TSA, No-fly list, naked X-rays, etc...do you think it would have been better if the airlines simply issued each passenger a 9mm pistol at check-in?
"Here you go, grandma. Thanks for flying Blast-Away-Air!"
TriSec on 07/02/2008 13:32:06
Quote by Raine:
Lawsuit wants Guns allowed at Atlanta Airport.
WTF?!?!
Hell, why not?
Instead of the TSA, No-fly list, naked X-rays, etc...do you think it would have been better if the airlines simply issued each passenger a 9mm pistol at check-in?
"Here you go, grandma. Thanks for flying Blast-Away-Air!"
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 13:35:24
Hey Faye! - be careful on the road tomorrow. 600 miles?... oy.
Shelagh has sent me a couple emails regarding her computer issues and employment, and I believe both are affecting her ability to blog...
BobR on 07/02/2008 13:35:24
Quote by m-hadley:
Mornin' everybody,
I winced as I read your excellent post this morning Will, and Scoopster - I heard about that RI Sup Ct Decision - talk about legislating from the bench - didn't they overturn a jury verdict? How're you doing, Raine and Mala? Mala, How's your Mom doing with her new job? Has anybody heard from Shelagh in awhile? My last day of work this week - tomorrow I head out on the highway 600+ miles - a good day's drive. :airhump:
Cheers,
mfaye
:hug:
Hey Faye! - be careful on the road tomorrow. 600 miles?... oy.
Shelagh has sent me a couple emails regarding her computer issues and employment, and I believe both are affecting her ability to blog...
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 13:36:45
If everyone is armed, then no terrorist would dare try to hijack the plane, right?
:rolleyes2:
BobR on 07/02/2008 13:36:45
Quote by TriSec:
Hell, why not?
Instead of the TSA, No-fly list, naked X-rays, etc...do you think it would have been better if the airlines simply issued each passenger a 9mm pistol at check-in?
"Here you go, grandma. Thanks for flying Blast-Away-Air!"
If everyone is armed, then no terrorist would dare try to hijack the plane, right?
:rolleyes2:
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 13:42:56
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 13:42:56
I'm with Angela - Cindy McC is very Flowers in the Attic.
Comment by clintster on 07/02/2008 13:46:25
From what I heard on the news, the legislator responsible for this was supposed to go to Hartsfield with a gun so he could get arrested and use the incident as an impetus for filing the lawsuit. It appears that he didn't go through with his threat. Think he chickened out of hispublicity whoring inspirational act of civil disobedience 'cause he realized it might actually weaken his case?
clintster on 07/02/2008 13:46:25
Quote by Raine:
Lawsuit wants Guns allowed at Atlanta Airport.
WTF?!?!
From what I heard on the news, the legislator responsible for this was supposed to go to Hartsfield with a gun so he could get arrested and use the incident as an impetus for filing the lawsuit. It appears that he didn't go through with his threat. Think he chickened out of his
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 13:48:58
Either that or he realized that people are more then freaked out about possible being able to take guns into an airport.
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 13:48:58
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
Lawsuit wants Guns allowed at Atlanta Airport.
WTF?!?!
From what I heard on the news, the legislator responsible for this was supposed to go to Hartsfield with a gun so he could get arrested and use the incident as an impetus for filing the lawsuit. It appears that he didn't go through with his threat. Think he chickened out of hispublicity whoringinspirational act of civil disobedience 'cause he realized it might actually weaken his case?
Either that or he realized that people are more then freaked out about possible being able to take guns into an airport.
Comment by 
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 13:53:56
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 13:53:56
Quote by Raine:
Wow. Will I just noticed what time you posted the blog! did you get any sleep at all?
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Comment by 
livingonli on 07/02/2008 13:56:35
livingonli on 07/02/2008 13:56:35
Good morning all.
Mugabe is proof of the axiom that power corrupts. While his reign started well after the end of the White Apartheid government of Rhodesia, he has been in power now for 28 years and wants to stay in power for the rest of his life. He is no Nelson Mandela who has also condemned Mugabe's actions.
Mugabe is proof of the axiom that power corrupts. While his reign started well after the end of the White Apartheid government of Rhodesia, he has been in power now for 28 years and wants to stay in power for the rest of his life. He is no Nelson Mandela who has also condemned Mugabe's actions.
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 13:56:42
TriSec on 07/02/2008 13:56:42
Never mind guns; how about these?
No metal in them at all. I have a Kershaw aluminum knife...it's bonded with steel on the blade edge only, and I have flown with that knife in my pocket. (albeit prior to 9/11). I know from first-hand experience that there isn't enough metal in it to set off the metal detectors...
And the last time I did fly post 9/11, I had my first-aid kit in my carry-on luggage. I have both a pair of bandage scissors and an ordinary razor blade in that kit...passed through clean.
No metal in them at all. I have a Kershaw aluminum knife...it's bonded with steel on the blade edge only, and I have flown with that knife in my pocket. (albeit prior to 9/11). I know from first-hand experience that there isn't enough metal in it to set off the metal detectors...
And the last time I did fly post 9/11, I had my first-aid kit in my carry-on luggage. I have both a pair of bandage scissors and an ordinary razor blade in that kit...passed through clean.
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 13:57:40
livingonli on 07/02/2008 13:57:40
I'm glad that Shelagh's well. I hope she will be able to blog with us again soon.
Comment by m-hadley on 07/02/2008 14:03:27
Heya BobR,
Next time you hear from Shelagh, please tell her that we are thinking of her and miss her on the bloggie and hope that she is doing okay. Thanks. As far as the trip tomorrow, I've made the drive so many times I think I could do it in my sleep - but I'll try to keep my eyes open :D
Happy 4th Everybody - I highly recommend reading or watching Obama's speech on Patriotism as a sane way to celebrate Independence Day.
Over and out - I gotta go downstairs and do some research on the Quapaws...
Cheers,
mfaye
:hug:
m-hadley on 07/02/2008 14:03:27
Quote by BobR:Quote by m-hadley:
Mornin' everybody,
I winced as I read your excellent post this morning Will, and Scoopster - I heard about that RI Sup Ct Decision - talk about legislating from the bench - didn't they overturn a jury verdict? How're you doing, Raine and Mala? Mala, How's your Mom doing with her new job? Has anybody heard from Shelagh in awhile? My last day of work this week - tomorrow I head out on the highway 600+ miles - a good day's drive. :airhump:
Cheers,
mfaye
:hug:
Hey Faye! - be careful on the road tomorrow. 600 miles?... oy.
Shelagh has sent me a couple emails regarding her computer issues and employment, and I believe both are affecting her ability to blog...
Heya BobR,
Next time you hear from Shelagh, please tell her that we are thinking of her and miss her on the bloggie and hope that she is doing okay. Thanks. As far as the trip tomorrow, I've made the drive so many times I think I could do it in my sleep - but I'll try to keep my eyes open :D
Happy 4th Everybody - I highly recommend reading or watching Obama's speech on Patriotism as a sane way to celebrate Independence Day.
Over and out - I gotta go downstairs and do some research on the Quapaws...
Cheers,
mfaye
:hug:
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:04:19
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:04:19
Quote by Raine:
Wow. Will I just noticed what time you posted the blog! did you get any sleep at all?
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 14:04:38
We were just talking about that.
In the AJC,
It's a friggin AIRPORT! WTF. you don't bring guns to an airport...
Babies to the bar? Yes. Guns to Airport, No.
Raine on 07/02/2008 14:04:38
Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
Lawsuit wants Guns allowed at Atlanta Airport.
WTF?!?!
From what I heard on the news, the legislator responsible for this was supposed to go to Hartsfield with a gun so he could get arrested and use the incident as an impetus for filing the lawsuit. It appears that he didn't go through with his threat. Think he chickened out of hispublicity whoringinspirational act of civil disobedience 'cause he realized it might actually weaken his case?
In the AJC,
"That showdown will take place in the courts instead of an airport parking lot," said Bearden, who still planned to go to the airport, but without a gun.
The lawsuit accuses city officials of violating Bearden's civil rights by threatening him with arrest.
The suit seeks an injunction to stop the city from searching or arresting people for "legally carrying firearms," and it seeks "reasonable" attorney's fees.
It's a friggin AIRPORT! WTF. you don't bring guns to an airport...
Babies to the bar? Yes. Guns to Airport, No.
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 14:08:00
Hey Will - great blog this morning. It's good to be reminded that there is a big world out there beyond our borders, and that there is a lot of bad stuff happening there.
When you get back, you should look at the paragraph that begins with "Too often, when people read of tragedies in distant lands...". It appears that something got cut off there. You can edit it to fix that, if you like.
Also, the sentence in the last paragraph about the ring seems to be missing a few words.
Considering how good this post is and how much time you obviously put into it, I figured you'd want to make sure those little things didn't distract from it.
BobR on 07/02/2008 14:08:00
Quote by will in chicago:
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Hey Will - great blog this morning. It's good to be reminded that there is a big world out there beyond our borders, and that there is a lot of bad stuff happening there.
When you get back, you should look at the paragraph that begins with "Too often, when people read of tragedies in distant lands...". It appears that something got cut off there. You can edit it to fix that, if you like.
Also, the sentence in the last paragraph about the ring seems to be missing a few words.
Considering how good this post is and how much time you obviously put into it, I figured you'd want to make sure those little things didn't distract from it.
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 14:10:40
oh good gawd - why don't we clone the firefighters that died there while we're at it.
:rolleyes:
BobR on 07/02/2008 14:10:40
Quote by Raine:
Dog that sniffed out last WTC survivor will be cloned.
oh good gawd - why don't we clone the firefighters that died there while we're at it.
:rolleyes:
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:11:12
The gun nuts really want to turn this country into a variation of the Old West. I think people really think problems can be solved by shooting at it like in Westerns, War Films, and Action Adventure films. This is also why some people support using torture because they think it works like in 24.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:11:12
Quote by Raine:We were just talking about that.Quote by clintster:Quote by Raine:
Lawsuit wants Guns allowed at Atlanta Airport.
WTF?!?!
From what I heard on the news, the legislator responsible for this was supposed to go to Hartsfield with a gun so he could get arrested and use the incident as an impetus for filing the lawsuit. It appears that he didn't go through with his threat. Think he chickened out of hispublicity whoringinspirational act of civil disobedience 'cause he realized it might actually weaken his case?
In the AJC,"That showdown will take place in the courts instead of an airport parking lot," said Bearden, who still planned to go to the airport, but without a gun.
The lawsuit accuses city officials of violating Bearden's civil rights by threatening him with arrest.
The suit seeks an injunction to stop the city from searching or arresting people for "legally carrying firearms," and it seeks "reasonable" attorney's fees.
It's a friggin AIRPORT! WTF. you don't bring guns to an airport...
Babies to the bar? Yes. Guns to Airport, No.
The gun nuts really want to turn this country into a variation of the Old West. I think people really think problems can be solved by shooting at it like in Westerns, War Films, and Action Adventure films. This is also why some people support using torture because they think it works like in 24.
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 14:13:34
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 14:13:34
Transylvania is in Romania, I believe
Comment by 
Random on 07/02/2008 14:13:50
Random on 07/02/2008 14:13:50
Comment by 
starling310 on 07/02/2008 14:14:50
My opinion is that there is an overwhelming feeling about places like Zimbabwe and Darfur, that "those people" are nothing like "us." Therefore, most people ( not the gems on das blog of course ) don't care. They don't "understand" "those people" and they choose to not educate themselves. It's the "math is hard" mentality.
starling310 on 07/02/2008 14:14:50
Quote by Scoopster:
I don't get why there hasn't been more worldwide outrage at the voter intimidation that went on in that election.
My opinion is that there is an overwhelming feeling about places like Zimbabwe and Darfur, that "those people" are nothing like "us." Therefore, most people ( not the gems on das blog of course ) don't care. They don't "understand" "those people" and they choose to not educate themselves. It's the "math is hard" mentality.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 14:18:40
Webb has an intersting thing or 2 to say...
Webb, a Barack Obama supporter, was on MSNBC's "Countdown" to talk about his G.I. Bill to increase education benefits for returning veterans which is now law. Webb criticized both McCain and President Bush for not supporting the bill. Then, unprompted, Webb weighed in on the debate over retired Gen. Wesley Clark's remark that "riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down" isn't "a qualification to be president."
"I think what we really need to work on over the next four, five months, and it goes back to the speech that Sen. Obama gave (Monday) and this little fight that I've been watching and that is, we need to make sure that we take politics out of service," Webb said. "People don't serve their country for political issues."
He continued: "And John McCain's my long-time friend, if that is one area that I would ask him to calm down on, it`s that, don't be standing up and uttering your political views and implying that all the people in the military support them because they don't, any more than when the Democrats have political issues during the Vietnam War. Let's get the politics out of the military, take care of our military people, or have our political arguments in other areas."...
Raine on 07/02/2008 14:18:40
Quote by wickedpam:
I see Eisenhower and Kenndey as classier people.
I was commenting the other day as I drove by yet another car with a Bronze Star license plate, that I respected more the people who had those medals and didn't say anything about them then the people who advertise it.
Webb has an intersting thing or 2 to say...
Webb, a Barack Obama supporter, was on MSNBC's "Countdown" to talk about his G.I. Bill to increase education benefits for returning veterans which is now law. Webb criticized both McCain and President Bush for not supporting the bill. Then, unprompted, Webb weighed in on the debate over retired Gen. Wesley Clark's remark that "riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down" isn't "a qualification to be president."
"I think what we really need to work on over the next four, five months, and it goes back to the speech that Sen. Obama gave (Monday) and this little fight that I've been watching and that is, we need to make sure that we take politics out of service," Webb said. "People don't serve their country for political issues."
He continued: "And John McCain's my long-time friend, if that is one area that I would ask him to calm down on, it`s that, don't be standing up and uttering your political views and implying that all the people in the military support them because they don't, any more than when the Democrats have political issues during the Vietnam War. Let's get the politics out of the military, take care of our military people, or have our political arguments in other areas."...
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 14:18:45
starling310 on 07/02/2008 14:18:45
Are we seriously debating the potential first lady's wardrobe?
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:22:11
You are correct.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:22:11
Quote by wickedpam:
Transylvania is in Romania, I believe
You are correct.
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 14:25:16
:oolong: :bump:
where and when?
BobR on 07/02/2008 14:25:16
Quote by clintster:
Psst, Raine. You and Bobber want to get together for lunch? I'm heading into Decatur today to run some papers to the Mrs.
:oolong: :bump:
where and when?
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:25:29
livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:25:29
The SMS bloggers are going nude today.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:28:18
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:28:18
Quote by Raine:
Wow. Will I just noticed what time you posted the blog! did you get any sleep at all?
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Comment by clintster on 07/02/2008 14:28:54
Howzabout Taco Mac at 12:30?
clintster on 07/02/2008 14:28:54
Quote by BobR:Quote by clintster:
Psst, Raine. You and Bobber want to get together for lunch? I'm heading into Decatur today to run some papers to the Mrs.
:oolong: :bump:
where and when?
Howzabout Taco Mac at 12:30?
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 14:29:05
Transsexual Transylvania, however, is somewhere else entirely...
BobR on 07/02/2008 14:29:05
Quote by wickedpam:
Transylvania is in Romania, I believe
Transsexual Transylvania, however, is somewhere else entirely...
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:30:15
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:30:15
Quote by Raine:
Wow. Will I just noticed what time you posted the blog! did you get any sleep at all?
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 14:30:32
The location in Decatur, I assume?
We'll be there!
BobR on 07/02/2008 14:30:32
Quote by clintster:
Howzabout Taco Mac at 12:30?
The location in Decatur, I assume?
We'll be there!
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 14:31:40
apparently, since you 3-posted this comment! :lol:
BobR on 07/02/2008 14:31:40
Quote by will in chicago:
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, ...
apparently, since you 3-posted this comment! :lol:
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:31:47
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:31:47
Quote by Raine:
Wow. Will I just noticed what time you posted the blog! did you get any sleep at all?
Good morning, bloggers!!
Raine, I was up late working on the UNN Daily Headlines, and felt compelled to put the blog up. Sometimes, I feel it is necessary to complete a task - even if the hour is late. So, I figured it was better to go ahead and post the blog in case I slept in late.
However, after four hours of sleep, I got up at 8 AM Central and walked the dog. So, I am going to grab some breakfast, stay up for a little bit and fall asleep. One of the advantages of being a substitute teacher or a teacher over the summer is having very flexible hours - so I may take a nap during Thom's show and catch the delayed broadcast here.
I hope that Shelagh will be okay. Please give her my best.
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 14:32:12
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 14:32:12
I think Will is stuck in a loop.
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 14:33:45
starling310 on 07/02/2008 14:33:45
:: slaps Will :: :: cher :: Snap out of it!
Comment by clintster on 07/02/2008 14:35:21
ROCK!
See y'all there.
clintster on 07/02/2008 14:35:21
Quote by BobR:Quote by clintster:
Howzabout Taco Mac at 12:30?
The location in Decatur, I assume?
We'll be there!
ROCK!
See y'all there.
Comment by clintster on 07/02/2008 14:37:55
OK, everybody keep your eyes peeled for a Soyuz-class starship being piloted by Kelsey Grammer.
/obscure?
clintster on 07/02/2008 14:37:55
Quote by wickedpam:
I think Will is stuck in a loop.
OK, everybody keep your eyes peeled for a Soyuz-class starship being piloted by Kelsey Grammer.
/obscure?
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 14:39:10
Cause and Effect
Love that episode.
course, i'm a huge TNG fan.
Random on 07/02/2008 14:39:10
Quote by clintster:Quote by wickedpam:
I think Will is stuck in a loop.
OK, everybody keep your eyes peeled for a Soyuz-class starship being piloted by Kelsey Grammer.
/obscure?
Cause and Effect
Love that episode.
course, i'm a huge TNG fan.
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 14:40:44
:lol:
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 14:40:44
Quote by starling310:
:: slaps Will :: :: cher :: Snap out of it!
:lol:
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 14:45:03
Raine on 07/02/2008 14:45:03
:rofl: Awww Will... 
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:47:38
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 14:47:38
That is odd.
I tried to refresh the blog a few times and my comments repeated. So, I exited the blog entry and came back.
I think I will take it easy as I wind down from breakfast. I am hearing the call of sleep. (Okay, not as bad as hearing the Call of Cthulhu ... especially the collect Call of Cthulhu! Although that might explaine a few things.)
Hmm, anyone notice any similarities in the political positions of McCain, Bush and Cthulhu?
I tried to refresh the blog a few times and my comments repeated. So, I exited the blog entry and came back.
I think I will take it easy as I wind down from breakfast. I am hearing the call of sleep. (Okay, not as bad as hearing the Call of Cthulhu ... especially the collect Call of Cthulhu! Although that might explaine a few things.)
Hmm, anyone notice any similarities in the political positions of McCain, Bush and Cthulhu?
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 14:49:08
starling310 on 07/02/2008 14:49:08
Oh...poor baby....with the Hummer. Boo friggin' hoo.
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:50:06
Poor Will. His computer was stuck in a time loop.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:50:06
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by starling310:
:: slaps Will :: :: cher :: Snap out of it!
:lol:
Poor Will. His computer was stuck in a time loop.
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 14:50:46
TriSec on 07/02/2008 14:50:46
*snort*
Any episode where the Enterprise blows up four times is OK by me!
:picard: All hands, abandon ship!!
Any episode where the Enterprise blows up four times is OK by me!
:picard: All hands, abandon ship!!
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:53:03
It must be tough proclaiming in public how small your penis is.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 14:53:03
Quote by starling310:
Oh...poor baby....with the Hummer. Boo friggin' hoo.
It must be tough proclaiming in public how small your penis is.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 15:01:58
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 15:01:58
More news:
From the BBC - Mugabe rival rejects unity cal
From Haaretz - At least four dead, dozens hurt in Jerusalem terror attack
From Al Jazeera - Palestinians storm Rafah crossing
From the BBC - Mugabe rival rejects unity cal
From Haaretz - At least four dead, dozens hurt in Jerusalem terror attack
From Al Jazeera - Palestinians storm Rafah crossing
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 15:06:00
Raine on 07/02/2008 15:06:00
OMG. This man is senile.
McCain says he never said he didn't know about the economy.
Also from the link:
– “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,” McCain said. “I’ve got Greenspan’s book.” [December 2007]
– Seeking to explain his shift on economic issues, McCain claimed: “I didn’t pay nearly the attention to those issues in the past. I was probably a ’supply-sider’ based on the fact that I really didn’t jump into the issue.” [January 2000]
– Carly Fiorina, a top McCain adviser, acknowledged that McCain has said he knows little about the economy, noting that “he did say it one time, no question, maybe twice.” [6/10/08]
McCain says he never said he didn't know about the economy.
Also from the link:
– “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,” McCain said. “I’ve got Greenspan’s book.” [December 2007]
– Seeking to explain his shift on economic issues, McCain claimed: “I didn’t pay nearly the attention to those issues in the past. I was probably a ’supply-sider’ based on the fact that I really didn’t jump into the issue.” [January 2000]
– Carly Fiorina, a top McCain adviser, acknowledged that McCain has said he knows little about the economy, noting that “he did say it one time, no question, maybe twice.” [6/10/08]
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:08:46
livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:08:46
It's starting to seem like McCain's brain is even more fried than Reagan's was.
Comment by clintster on 07/02/2008 15:11:11
"That's not memory you can believe in, my friends."
clintster on 07/02/2008 15:11:11
Quote by Raine:
OMG. This man is senile.
McCain says he never said he didn't know about the economy.
Also from the link:
– “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,” McCain said. “I’ve got Greenspan’s book.” [December 2007]
– Seeking to explain his shift on economic issues, McCain claimed: “I didn’t pay nearly the attention to those issues in the past. I was probably a ’supply-sider’ based on the fact that I really didn’t jump into the issue.” [January 2000]
– Carly Fiorina, a top McCain adviser, acknowledged that McCain has said he knows little about the economy, noting that “he did say it one time, no question, maybe twice.” [6/10/08]
"That's not memory you can believe in, my friends."
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:11:19
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:11:19
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:11:23
livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:11:23
Our dirty little wars in the Middle East our big contributors to our bankruptcy.
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:12:01
<-- 4F Cacophonic Orchestra
I am listening to *actual* classical music this am. (WGBH, Boston).
Considering that I was raised by musicians, I've gotten far away from my roots in recent years...
Anyway, I digress.
TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:12:01
<-- 4F Cacophonic OrchestraI am listening to *actual* classical music this am. (WGBH, Boston).
Considering that I was raised by musicians, I've gotten far away from my roots in recent years...
Anyway, I digress.
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:12:12
I want to see the SUV go away so badly.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:12:12
Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
I want to see the SUV go away so badly.
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:13:52
They are third on my list right after BMW drivers who think they're more priviledged to use the road then the rest of us.
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:13:52
Quote by livingonli:Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
I want to see the SUV go away so badly.
They are third on my list right after BMW drivers who think they're more priviledged to use the road then the rest of us.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 15:15:28
Raine on 07/02/2008 15:15:28
And... just a few moments ago on the MSNBC machine, Pat Buchanan said that Barack Obama needs to prove his patriotism. :wtf:
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:15:47
That could apply to any high-end vehicle so you would have to add those who drive Lexus or Infiniti vehicles.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:15:47
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by livingonli:Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
I want to see the SUV go away so badly.
They are third on my list right after BMW drivers who think they're more priviledged to use the road then the rest of us.
That could apply to any high-end vehicle so you would have to add those who drive Lexus or Infiniti vehicles.
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:15:49
Nahh, Volvos. Hands-down.
In this part of the country at least, if there's somebody tailing you, cutting you off, running a red light, exiting from the left lane, etc....it's a Volvo. Weak-minded fools have bought the advertising that you are INVINCIBLE behind the wheel of one, and they drive that way.
Long before AAP and 4F, I was a moderator at the now-defunct "Above Average Driver" website. I was known for railing against Volvos at any chance I got.
Pet Peeves:
Volvos.
Tailgaters in the right lane. (go around me, retard!)
SUVs afraid to drive over railroad tracks or potholes
Winter Peeve:
Clear your windows, dammit!
And I digress further...
TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:15:49
Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
Nahh, Volvos. Hands-down.
In this part of the country at least, if there's somebody tailing you, cutting you off, running a red light, exiting from the left lane, etc....it's a Volvo. Weak-minded fools have bought the advertising that you are INVINCIBLE behind the wheel of one, and they drive that way.
Long before AAP and 4F, I was a moderator at the now-defunct "Above Average Driver" website. I was known for railing against Volvos at any chance I got.
Pet Peeves:
Volvos.
Tailgaters in the right lane. (go around me, retard!)
SUVs afraid to drive over railroad tracks or potholes
Winter Peeve:
Clear your windows, dammit!
And I digress further...
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:19:31
He'll prove his patriotism when he is President and makes this country a better place to live.
starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:19:31
Quote by Raine:
And... just a few moments ago on the MSNBC machine, Pat Buchanan said that Barack Obama needs to prove his patriotism. :wtf:
He'll prove his patriotism when he is President and makes this country a better place to live.
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:19:51
Oh Stevie, just cause your older much more successful brother Alec said he would do that, you don't have to copy him. Paging Dr. Freud.
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:19:51
Quote by clintster:
Stephen Baldwin 'threatens' to move if Obama wins.
Oh Stevie, just cause your older much more successful brother Alec said he would do that, you don't have to copy him. Paging Dr. Freud.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 15:20:25
Raine on 07/02/2008 15:20:25
Car-ists, all of you. :P
I contend it isn't the car, it is the bumper stickers. ANYONE with a confederate flag, they prove to be assholian drivers.
Remember In the immortal Words of the NRA (National Roaders Association) Cars don't drive bad, people do...
I contend it isn't the car, it is the bumper stickers. ANYONE with a confederate flag, they prove to be assholian drivers.
Remember In the immortal Words of the NRA (National Roaders Association) Cars don't drive bad, people do...
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:20:46
:thud:
I thought running for Pres was one of THE most patriotic thing you could do.
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:20:46
Quote by Raine:
And... just a few moments ago on the MSNBC machine, Pat Buchanan said that Barack Obama needs to prove his patriotism. :wtf:
:thud:
I thought running for Pres was one of THE most patriotic thing you could do.
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:22:26
TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:22:26
: grabs wheel, muscles bus into music ditch :
Ah, listening to a concert from the Sydney Opera house. I love a knowledgeable audience. You hold you applause until the end of the piece...I can't tell you how many concerts I've been to in these United States where 'the folks' applaud at the end of a movement. It's very distracting for the players...
Ah, listening to a concert from the Sydney Opera house. I love a knowledgeable audience. You hold you applause until the end of the piece...I can't tell you how many concerts I've been to in these United States where 'the folks' applaud at the end of a movement. It's very distracting for the players...
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:22:51
underline, bold, italic me
I swear that kills me!
Dude your car is twice the size of my Hyndai and I take the speed bump or pothole, or tracks faster. Idiots!
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:22:51
Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
Nahh, Volvos. Hands-down.
In this part of the country at least, if there's somebody tailing you, cutting you off, running a red light, exiting from the left lane, etc....it's a Volvo. Weak-minded fools have bought the advertising that you are INVINCIBLE behind the wheel of one, and they drive that way.
Long before AAP and 4F, I was a moderator at the now-defunct "Above Average Driver" website. I was known for railing against Volvos at any chance I got.
Pet Peeves:
Volvos.
Tailgaters in the right lane. (go around me, retard!)
SUVs afraid to drive over railroad tracks or potholes
Winter Peeve:
Clear your windows, dammit!
And I digress further...
underline, bold, italic me
I swear that kills me!
Dude your car is twice the size of my Hyndai and I take the speed bump or pothole, or tracks faster. Idiots!
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:23:47
livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:23:47
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:25:00
As far as bad drivers here. Anybody driving anything. Worst.Drives.In.America. It can be a tiny little roller skate like a Mini Cooper all the way up to the largest SUV. Tailgating, passing on the right, weaving in and out of traffic, inappropriate speeding, rubbernecking, driving way below the posted speed limit, you name it, you'll find some asshat doing it in the car or truck of their choice.
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:25:00
Quote by TriSec:Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
Nahh, Volvos. Hands-down.
In this part of the country at least, if there's somebody tailing you, cutting you off, running a red light, exiting from the left lane, etc....it's a Volvo. Weak-minded fools have bought the advertising that you are INVINCIBLE behind the wheel of one, and they drive that way.
Long before AAP and 4F, I was a moderator at the now-defunct "Above Average Driver" website. I was known for railing against Volvos at any chance I got.
Pet Peeves:
Volvos.
Tailgaters in the right lane. (go around me, retard!)
SUVs afraid to drive over railroad tracks or potholes
Winter Peeve:
Clear your windows, dammit!
And I digress further...
As far as bad drivers here. Anybody driving anything. Worst.Drives.In.America. It can be a tiny little roller skate like a Mini Cooper all the way up to the largest SUV. Tailgating, passing on the right, weaving in and out of traffic, inappropriate speeding, rubbernecking, driving way below the posted speed limit, you name it, you'll find some asshat doing it in the car or truck of their choice.
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:25:48
How about anyone who still has a W '04 sticker on their vehicle? One time I got cut off by an SUV owner that was driving like an idiot and the vehicle still had the W '04 sticker on the back along with the made in China pro-war ribbons.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:25:48
Quote by Raine:
Car-ists, all of you. :P
I contend it isn't the car, it is the bumper stickers. ANYONE with a confederate flag, they prove to be assholian drivers.
Remember In the immortal Words of the NRA (National Roaders Association) Cars don't drive bad, people do...
How about anyone who still has a W '04 sticker on their vehicle? One time I got cut off by an SUV owner that was driving like an idiot and the vehicle still had the W '04 sticker on the back along with the made in China pro-war ribbons.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 15:28:12
Raine on 07/02/2008 15:28:12
:wacko: What is she singing?
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 15:28:37
Raine on 07/02/2008 15:28:37
Wow. , that was lift every voice?
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:30:48
Nah Tri, not a nine. You want a .40 caliber. More stopping power, lest chance of a through and through like you can get with a nine. You get the same high capacity magazine though. 12-15 shots!
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:30:48
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
Lawsuit wants Guns allowed at Atlanta Airport.
WTF?!?!
Hell, why not?
Instead of the TSA, No-fly list, naked X-rays, etc...do you think it would have been better if the airlines simply issued each passenger a 9mm pistol at check-in?
"Here you go, grandma. Thanks for flying Blast-Away-Air!"
Nah Tri, not a nine. You want a .40 caliber. More stopping power, lest chance of a through and through like you can get with a nine. You get the same high capacity magazine though. 12-15 shots!
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 15:32:14
I used to have a minivan and loved it. Much more versatile than the supposedly versatile SUV, and better gas mileage.
BobR on 07/02/2008 15:32:14
Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
I used to have a minivan and loved it. Much more versatile than the supposedly versatile SUV, and better gas mileage.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:33:50
Chrome chick mudflaps, giant rear window decals, fake bull testicles, "terrorist hunting permit" decals. Ditto.
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:33:50
Quote by Raine:
Car-ists, all of you. :P
I contend it isn't the car, it is the bumper stickers. ANYONE with a confederate flag, they prove to be assholian drivers.
Remember In the immortal Words of the NRA (National Roaders Association) Cars don't drive bad, people do...
Chrome chick mudflaps, giant rear window decals, fake bull testicles, "terrorist hunting permit" decals. Ditto.
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:33:59
TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:33:59
And, the mythbusters did that on an episode a season or two ago...no explosive decompression, even at 30,000 feet!
:thud:
:thud:
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:36:38
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:36:38
Oh and BTW howdy all.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 15:37:08
Raine on 07/02/2008 15:37:08
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:38:14
And again in my head I have that insurance commercial for the musician with the van that hit a pole
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:38:14
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
I used to have a minivan and loved it. Much more versatile than the supposedly versatile SUV, and better gas mileage.
And again in my head I have that insurance commercial for the musician with the van that hit a pole
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:38:26
Don't forget the W '04 sticker.
Morning Mondo.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:38:26
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
Car-ists, all of you. :P
I contend it isn't the car, it is the bumper stickers. ANYONE with a confederate flag, they prove to be assholian drivers.
Remember In the immortal Words of the NRA (National Roaders Association) Cars don't drive bad, people do...
Chrome chick mudflaps, giant rear window decals, fake bull testicles, "terrorist hunting permit" decals. Ditto.
Don't forget the W '04 sticker.
Morning Mondo.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:39:37
I agree with Bobber. Mrs Mondo and I had one. Yumpin' Yimminy! You can get A LOT of stuff in a Dodge Grand Caravan. Comfy to ride in and actually pretty easy on the gas.
Note Bobber and I are extremely comfortable in our manhood. We have driven minivans, so?
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:39:37
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
I used to have a minivan and loved it. Much more versatile than the supposedly versatile SUV, and better gas mileage.
I agree with Bobber. Mrs Mondo and I had one. Yumpin' Yimminy! You can get A LOT of stuff in a Dodge Grand Caravan. Comfy to ride in and actually pretty easy on the gas.
Note Bobber and I are extremely comfortable in our manhood. We have driven minivans, so?
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:40:37
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:40:37
"Don't Fight Club yourself" :spit:
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:41:03
The more faded that sticker the bigger the asshat.
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:41:03
Quote by livingonli:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
Car-ists, all of you. :P
I contend it isn't the car, it is the bumper stickers. ANYONE with a confederate flag, they prove to be assholian drivers.
Remember In the immortal Words of the NRA (National Roaders Association) Cars don't drive bad, people do...
Chrome chick mudflaps, giant rear window decals, fake bull testicles, "terrorist hunting permit" decals. Ditto.
Don't forget the W '04 sticker.
Morning Mondo.
The more faded that sticker the bigger the asshat.
Comment by m-hadley on 07/02/2008 15:41:15
Heya,
All the more reason to vote for Obama - a true win/win situation for all of us :D
Stephen - a real lesser Baldwin.
Cheers,
mfaye
:peace:
m-hadley on 07/02/2008 15:41:15
Quote by clintster:
Stephen Baldwin 'threatens' to move if Obama wins.
Heya,
All the more reason to vote for Obama - a true win/win situation for all of us :D
Stephen - a real lesser Baldwin.
Cheers,
mfaye
:peace:
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:41:15
*snort*
I drive a "Boobaru", remember?
<--manboobs
TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:41:15
Quote by Mondobubba:
Note Bobber and I are extremely comfortable in our manhood. We have driven minivans, so?
*snort*
I drive a "Boobaru", remember?
<--manboobs
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:42:44
livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:42:44
Who's going to listen to Maron filling in for Thom again today?
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:44:03
It's the Hummer owners who really have the manhood problems. And I hate when I have to park someplace and I see one of these asshats taking two parking spaces.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 15:44:03
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Mondobubba:
Note Bobber and I are extremely comfortable in our manhood. We have driven minivans, so?
*snort*
I drive a "Boobaru", remember?
It's the Hummer owners who really have the manhood problems. And I hate when I have to park someplace and I see one of these asshats taking two parking spaces.
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:44:23
hey mondo! i thought of you yesterday because i had to put ointment on my cat's EYE!
starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:44:23
Quote by Mondobubba:
Oh and BTW howdy all.
hey mondo! i thought of you yesterday because i had to put ointment on my cat's EYE!
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 15:45:55
Even worse are the "W - still the president" stickers. Not content just to have had their enfant-terrible steal another one, they rub it in our face.
scum.
BobR on 07/02/2008 15:45:55
Quote by livingonli:
Don't forget the W '04 sticker.
Even worse are the "W - still the president" stickers. Not content just to have had their enfant-terrible steal another one, they rub it in our face.
scum.
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:47:00
Traveling Musician That's what it's called it doesn't come up automatically.
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:47:00
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
I say good riddance to the mini-van. The worst drivers on the road drive those things. Just cause they advertise that it drives like a sports car doesn't mean that it is you asshat! (sorry I was channeling rush hour tailgating road rage.)
I used to have a minivan and loved it. Much more versatile than the supposedly versatile SUV, and better gas mileage.
And again in my head I have that insurance commercial for the musician with the van that hit a pole
Traveling Musician That's what it's called it doesn't come up automatically.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:47:49
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:47:49
Oh I almost forgot something on my list. NRA bumper stickers. A Florida only special, the "Choose Life" license plate.
The hated tag.
Also, "De Colores" and "I Believe" bumper stickers.
The hated tag.
Also, "De Colores" and "I Believe" bumper stickers.
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:48:11
starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:48:11
Quote by BobR:Quote by livingonli:
Don't forget the W '04 sticker.
Even worse are the "W - still the [ worst ]president [ ever! }" stickers. Not content just to have had their enfant-terrible steal another one, they rub it in our face.
scum.
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:48:18
TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:48:18
Well, I can't speak for other parts of the country, but once gas hit $3.50 in these parts, pretty much all the Hummers went "poof".
I still see the occassional one, but they are rare sights indeed now.
I still see the occassional one, but they are rare sights indeed now.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 15:48:38
This is unedited, a five minute version. This is the video I believe they are talking about. Keep in mind that Rduy Giuliani and his firm were copntracted by mexico city and part of that was to train the Policia there.
Raine on 07/02/2008 15:48:38
Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
Are we Teaching Mexico Police to Torture?
Simply stunning.
This is unedited, a five minute version. This is the video I believe they are talking about. Keep in mind that Rduy Giuliani and his firm were copntracted by mexico city and part of that was to train the Policia there.
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 15:49:06
I remember folding down the seats and bringing home a side-by-side refrigerator - with the tail door closed. I still got around 20 MPG.
*sigh*
BobR on 07/02/2008 15:49:06
Quote by Mondobubba:
I agree with Bobber. Mrs Mondo and I had one. Yumpin' Yimminy! You can get A LOT of stuff in a Dodge Grand Caravan. Comfy to ride in and actually pretty easy on the gas.
Note Bobber and I are extremely comfortable in our manhood. We have driven minivans, so?
I remember folding down the seats and bringing home a side-by-side refrigerator - with the tail door closed. I still got around 20 MPG.
*sigh*
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 15:50:53
I resemble that remark! :P
BobR on 07/02/2008 15:50:53
Quote by wickedpam:
Traveling Musician That's what it's called it doesn't come up automatically.
I resemble that remark! :P
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:50:56
I can't tell you how many SUVs I see, parked on a lawn, donning a
FOR SALE sign.
starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:50:56
Quote by TriSec:
Well, I can't speak for other parts of the country, but once gas hit $3.50 in these parts, pretty much all the Hummers went "poof".
I still see the occassional one, but they are rare sights indeed now.
I can't tell you how many SUVs I see, parked on a lawn, donning a
FOR SALE sign.
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:50:58
They're still rollin' them out here.
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:50:58
Quote by TriSec:
Well, I can't speak for other parts of the country, but once gas hit $3.50 in these parts, pretty much all the Hummers went "poof".
I still see the occassional one, but they are rare sights indeed now.
They're still rollin' them out here.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 15:50:59
HOWDY mondo!
WE will be leaving shortly for our meet up with Clintster!
Raine on 07/02/2008 15:50:59
Quote by Mondobubba:
Oh and BTW howdy all.
HOWDY mondo!
WE will be leaving shortly for our meet up with Clintster!
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:52:43
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:52:43
WHy in the heck so we need an atom smasher anyway?
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:53:55
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:53:55
The Mist was depressing.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:54:17
Most impressive! Yep entire sheets of plywood. Things of this nature. And no worries about the stuff getting rained on.
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:54:17
Quote by BobR:Quote by Mondobubba:
I agree with Bobber. Mrs Mondo and I had one. Yumpin' Yimminy! You can get A LOT of stuff in a Dodge Grand Caravan. Comfy to ride in and actually pretty easy on the gas.
Note Bobber and I are extremely comfortable in our manhood. We have driven minivans, so?
I remember folding down the seats and bringing home a side-by-side refrigerator - with the tail door closed. I still got around 20 MPG.
*sigh*
Most impressive! Yep entire sheets of plywood. Things of this nature. And no worries about the stuff getting rained on.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:55:52
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:55:52
Raine y Bob y Clinster. Enjoy da lunch and the company! You crazy kids!
You crazy kids!
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 15:56:35
because it's way cool to smash stuff up?
:: beavis :: Fire! Fire! hehhehehheheh
BobR on 07/02/2008 15:56:35
Quote by wickedpam:
WHy in the heck so we need an atom smasher anyway?
because it's way cool to smash stuff up?
:: beavis :: Fire! Fire! hehhehehheheh
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:56:55
starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:56:55
The Mist was quite possibly the worst movie I have ever seen.
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 15:57:25
The recent movie?.... it looked pretty bad from the previews...
BobR on 07/02/2008 15:57:25
Quote by wickedpam:
The Mist was depressing.
The recent movie?.... it looked pretty bad from the previews...
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:57:43
George Bush asked for it when he sat on Santa's lap last year.
starling310 on 07/02/2008 15:57:43
Quote by wickedpam:
WHy in the heck so we need an atom smasher anyway?
George Bush asked for it when he sat on Santa's lap last year.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:58:09
To do important high energy particle physics experiments? Jeez!
Seriously, basic research like this is important.
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:58:09
Quote by wickedpam:
WHy in the heck so we need an atom smasher anyway?
To do important high energy particle physics experiments? Jeez!
Seriously, basic research like this is important.
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:58:18
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:58:18
"Tina didn't have to be her own Ike" :rofl:
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:59:24
TriSec on 07/02/2008 15:59:24
Divorce takes its toll on child with cancer
:kickcan:
I don't know what to make of this. Bad father, vindictive mother, or what?
:kickcan:
I don't know what to make of this. Bad father, vindictive mother, or what?
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:59:29
It was slow, had some promise the took a drive off the cliff into depressing. Let's just say King isn't afraid of the anti-happy ending
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 15:59:29
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
The Mist was depressing.
The recent movie?.... it looked pretty bad from the previews...
It was slow, had some promise the took a drive off the cliff into depressing. Let's just say King isn't afraid of the anti-happy ending
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:59:32
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 15:59:32
:star: Daaaahlink! How are ya! : deep soulful smoldering eye lock:
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 16:00:38
I figured it couldn't be worse then Storm of the Century. I was wrong
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 16:00:38
Quote by starling310:
The Mist was quite possibly the worst movie I have ever seen.
I figured it couldn't be worse then Storm of the Century. I was wrong
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 16:00:40
Or Bob's answer! :rofl:
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 16:00:40
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
WHy in the heck so we need an atom smasher anyway?
because it's way cool to smash stuff up?
:: beavis :: Fire! Fire! hehhehehheheh
Or Bob's answer! :rofl:
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 16:01:53
Actually, I believe the one being discussed is in Switzerland (CERN laboratories...)
BobR on 07/02/2008 16:01:53
Quote by starling310:
George Bush asked for it when he sat on Santa's lap last year.
Actually, I believe the one being discussed is in Switzerland (CERN laboratories...)
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 16:05:46
TriSec on 07/02/2008 16:05:46
Oh, the atom smasher that's going to create an artificial black hole that will suck up the earth?
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 16:06:54
Yep we have ceded our former lead in high energy physics to the Europeans. There were plans to be the world's largest particle accelerator in Texas a while back. It got killed cause it was "pork barrel" spending. Yeah basic scientific research is a waste of tax money.
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 16:06:54
Quote by BobR:Quote by starling310:
George Bush asked for it when he sat on Santa's lap last year.
Actually, I believe the one being discussed is in Switzerland (CERN laboratories...)
Yep we have ceded our former lead in high energy physics to the Europeans. There were plans to be the world's largest particle accelerator in Texas a while back. It got killed cause it was "pork barrel" spending. Yeah basic scientific research is a waste of tax money.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 16:08:26
Yeah just like that first test of the A-bomb was gonna set the atmosphere on fire.
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 16:08:26
Quote by TriSec:
Oh, the atom smasher that's going to create an artificial black hole that will suck up the earth?
Yeah just like that first test of the A-bomb was gonna set the atmosphere on fire.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 16:13:26
If McCain is outraged, then he needs to stop running on his war record.
Where was his outrage when they swiftboated Max Cleland?
Raine on 07/02/2008 16:13:26
If McCain is outraged, then he needs to stop running on his war record.
Where was his outrage when they swiftboated Max Cleland?
Comment by 
Shane-O on 07/02/2008 16:13:30
Shane-O on 07/02/2008 16:13:30
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
WHy in the heck so we need an atom smasher anyway?
because it's way cool to smash stuff up?
:: beavis :: Fire! Fire! hehhehehheheh
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 16:14:52
Because our policy is set by "born again" idjits who dislike science because it proves things like evolution and global warming.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 16:14:52
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by BobR:Quote by starling310:
George Bush asked for it when he sat on Santa's lap last year.
Actually, I believe the one being discussed is in Switzerland (CERN laboratories...)
Yep we have ceded our former lead in high energy physics to the Europeans. There were plans to be the world's largest particle accelerator in Texas a while back. It got killed cause it was "pork barrel" spending. Yeah basic scientific research is a waste of tax money.
Because our policy is set by "born again" idjits who dislike science because it proves things like evolution and global warming.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 07/02/2008 16:29:58
trojanrabbit on 07/02/2008 16:29:58
I see nothing wrong with the minivan either. Tons of room with the seats pulled out, the non-Grand models would do 30mpg highway.
And Chrysler typically had kick-ass stereos available for the vans, each speaker with its own amplifier. The whole car shook at the end of "Won't Get Fooled Again"
And Chrysler typically had kick-ass stereos available for the vans, each speaker with its own amplifier. The whole car shook at the end of "Won't Get Fooled Again"
Comment by trojanrabbit on 07/02/2008 16:32:08
Unless it results in better ways to kill people.
trojanrabbit on 07/02/2008 16:32:08
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by BobR:Quote by starling310:
George Bush asked for it when he sat on Santa's lap last year.
Actually, I believe the one being discussed is in Switzerland (CERN laboratories...)
Yep we have ceded our former lead in high energy physics to the Europeans. There were plans to be the world's largest particle accelerator in Texas a while back. It got killed cause it was "pork barrel" spending. Yeah basic scientific research is a waste of tax money.
Unless it results in better ways to kill people.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 07/02/2008 16:35:05
trojanrabbit on 07/02/2008 16:35:05
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 16:40:17
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 16:40:17
I will get some rest and swing back later. Have a good day, everyone! And if you are heading out for the holiday weekend before I get back, have fun, be safe, and celebrate what is good in this country this Independence Day.
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 17:04:36
Hitchens politics have gotten very schizophrenic. He seems to have gone down with the neo-cons with the occasional moment of lucidity.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 17:04:36
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Christopher Hitchens submits himself to waterboarding.
Hitchens politics have gotten very schizophrenic. He seems to have gone down with the neo-cons with the occasional moment of lucidity.
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 17:12:32
:Enter Random Rant:
The mist is crap...Most of the movie is the cliched point of what happens if you stuff a bunch of people in a store with a nutter who thumps (drop the t) the bible. The ending itself lacked emotional significance.
And screw all the bastards who loved it because it was a "downer" ending. Learn what a real ending is you pricks.
:Exit Random Rand:
Random on 07/02/2008 17:12:32
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
The Mist was depressing.
The recent movie?.... it looked pretty bad from the previews...
It was slow, had some promise the took a drive off the cliff into depressing. Let's just say King isn't afraid of the anti-happy ending
:Enter Random Rant:
The mist is crap...Most of the movie is the cliched point of what happens if you stuff a bunch of people in a store with a nutter who thumps (drop the t) the bible. The ending itself lacked emotional significance.
And screw all the bastards who loved it because it was a "downer" ending. Learn what a real ending is you pricks.
:Exit Random Rand:
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 17:43:48
livingonli on 07/02/2008 17:43:48
Anyone listening to Marc Maron?
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 18:04:44
Raine on 07/02/2008 18:04:44
Hi hooo! We are back from lunch. I must say that Mr. and Ms. Clintster are fabu! I predict there will be more meetups in the future!
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 18:08:02
Raine on 07/02/2008 18:08:02
Lawton Smalls! :clap:
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 18:08:23
livingonli on 07/02/2008 18:08:23
Lawton Smalls is on. 
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 18:10:40
Lawton Smalls!
BobR on 07/02/2008 18:10:40
Quote by livingonli:
Anyone listening to Marc Maron?
Lawton Smalls!
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 18:11:08
Raine on 07/02/2008 18:11:08
:rofl: a youthquake!!!
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 18:12:11
Raine on 07/02/2008 18:12:11
Who are you going to vote for, the basketball star or the Principal...
OMG, I miss Lawton Smalls.
OMG, I miss Lawton Smalls.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 18:15:31
Mondobubba on 07/02/2008 18:15:31
Oh crap! I've missed Lawton.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 18:35:04
Raine on 07/02/2008 18:35:04
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 18:43:16
Raine on 07/02/2008 18:43:16
McCain is NOW in Columbia? Did I hear that correct?
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 18:55:44
capt on 07/02/2008 18:55:44
Does McCain Have a Southern Strategy--as in Latin America?
We interrupt politics-as-usual and the parallel who's-up/who's down media coverage to bring you...policy substance. And policy substance about an issue much neglected: U.S. relations with Mexico and Latin America. Please--por favor--don't click away. It seems to me that one of George W. Bush's greatest failures (and lost opportunities) is Mexico. When he entered office as a boy-president, Mexico was actually one of the few foreign policy matters that he knew something about and that he seemed to care about. But he has done nada during his two terms to address the problems plaguing U.S.-Mexico relations. And it seems obvious--wall or not--that the United States will at some point have to deal with trade, crime, drugs, and immigration challenges that bind together us gringos and our poorer neighbors.
*****
A pretty good piece with some substance .
We interrupt politics-as-usual and the parallel who's-up/who's down media coverage to bring you...policy substance. And policy substance about an issue much neglected: U.S. relations with Mexico and Latin America. Please--por favor--don't click away. It seems to me that one of George W. Bush's greatest failures (and lost opportunities) is Mexico. When he entered office as a boy-president, Mexico was actually one of the few foreign policy matters that he knew something about and that he seemed to care about. But he has done nada during his two terms to address the problems plaguing U.S.-Mexico relations. And it seems obvious--wall or not--that the United States will at some point have to deal with trade, crime, drugs, and immigration challenges that bind together us gringos and our poorer neighbors.
*****
A pretty good piece with some substance .
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 18:58:43
Raine on 07/02/2008 18:58:43
McCain Denies Roughing up a Sandinista.
Either Thad Cochran is a liar or McCain is. you want to know where my money is?
Either Thad Cochran is a liar or McCain is. you want to know where my money is?
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 19:02:04
Raine on 07/02/2008 19:02:04
STOP the presses.
The FBI is proposing a policy to be able to question Americans with out charges?
The FBI is proposing a policy to be able to question Americans with out charges?
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 19:05:45
Cointelpro V.2
>>>> now with extra Torture Berries?!?!?!
WTF?!?!?!
Raine on 07/02/2008 19:05:45
Quote by Raine:
STOP the presses.
The FBI is proposing a policy to be able to question Americans with out charges?
Cointelpro V.2
>>>> now with extra Torture Berries?!?!?!
WTF?!?!?!
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 19:06:46
Not sure what you're hearing but the "Patriot Act" allows ANY law enforcement to stop and question ANYBODY for no reason except the person is on public property.
This was tested and upheld by the SCOTUS.
(as far as I know)
capt on 07/02/2008 19:06:46
Quote by Raine:
STOP the presses.
The FBI is proposing a policy to be able to question Americans with out charges?
Not sure what you're hearing but the "Patriot Act" allows ANY law enforcement to stop and question ANYBODY for no reason except the person is on public property.
This was tested and upheld by the SCOTUS.
(as far as I know)
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 19:13:53
capt on 07/02/2008 19:13:53
Supreme Court Hears Case Of Man Who Withheld ID
(snip)
A landmark Supreme Court ruling in 1968, Terry v. Ohio, gave the police the authority to briefly detain, question and conduct a pat-down search of someone whose activities -- casing a Cleveland storefront, in that case -- gave rise to ''reasonable suspicion,'' short of probable cause for a formal arrest.
(snip)
A landmark Supreme Court ruling in 1968, Terry v. Ohio, gave the police the authority to briefly detain, question and conduct a pat-down search of someone whose activities -- casing a Cleveland storefront, in that case -- gave rise to ''reasonable suspicion,'' short of probable cause for a formal arrest.
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 19:17:12
Do we need any further proof that these thugs are a bunch of fascists. And they complain when we compare Bush to Hitler, many of the comparisons are apt.
livingonli on 07/02/2008 19:17:12
Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
STOP the presses.
The FBI is proposing a policy to be able to question Americans with out charges?
Cointelpro V.2
>>>> now with extra Torture Berries?!?!?!
WTF?!?!?!
Do we need any further proof that these thugs are a bunch of fascists. And they complain when we compare Bush to Hitler, many of the comparisons are apt.
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 19:22:59
Considering Prescott Bush started the family nest egg doing business with Hitler it is more than fair.
I'm sure you all know about Thyssen and the seized assets (money made off the backs of holocaust victims)
The Bush's are Nazis through and through.
The fascist marriage of government and corporations is Nazi ideology.
capt on 07/02/2008 19:22:59
Quote by livingonli:Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
STOP the presses.
The FBI is proposing a policy to be able to question Americans with out charges?
Cointelpro V.2
>>>> now with extra Torture Berries?!?!?!
WTF?!?!?!
Do we need any further proof that these thugs are a bunch of fascists. And they complain when we compare Bush to Hitler, many of the comparisons are apt.
Considering Prescott Bush started the family nest egg doing business with Hitler it is more than fair.
I'm sure you all know about Thyssen and the seized assets (money made off the backs of holocaust victims)
The Bush's are Nazis through and through.
The fascist marriage of government and corporations is Nazi ideology.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 19:23:10
Another AP article...
Facism in America.
Raine on 07/02/2008 19:23:10
Quote by capt:Quote by Raine:
STOP the presses.
The FBI is proposing a policy to be able to question Americans with out charges?
Not sure what you're hearing but the "Patriot Act" allows ANY law enforcement to stop and question ANYBODY for no reason except the person is on public property.
This was tested and upheld by the SCOTUS.
(as far as I know)
Another AP article...
The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out Muslims, Arabs or other racial and ethnic groups.
Law enforcement officials say the proposed policy would help them do exactly what Congress demanded after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: root out terrorists before they strike.
Although President Bush has disavowed targeting suspects based on their race or ethnicity, the new rules would allow the FBI to consider those factors among a number of traits that could trigger a national security investigation.
Currently, FBI agents need specific reasons — like evidence or allegations that a law probably has been violated — to investigate U.S. citizens and legal residents. The new policy, law enforcement officials told The Associated Press, would let agents open preliminary terrorism investigations after mining public records and intelligence to build a profile of traits that, taken together, were deemed suspicious.
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 19:25:57
capt on 07/02/2008 19:25:57
Even worse - to me, the guy in GITMO they want to charge with the USS Cole bombing (and use the death penalty) is being prosecuted with the ONLY evidence his confession while being waterboarded.
This is what America has become?
AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!
This is what America has become?
AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 19:31:13
Here is the truth:
"Currently, FBI agents need specific reasons — like evidence or allegations "
If their supervisor or boss demands it. Not based on current case law.
I have family in the DOJ, trust me they have always used illegal methods.
An example - I know agents that have bugged places (without a warrant or permission from their supervisor). They know they can only use the info to build a case. Like they hear an illegal act will occur at 123 Maple street on Monday - they show up (coincidentally) and make the bust. The court (and not even their supervisor) ever need to know about the illegal bug.
Same across the board with all of our inalienable "rights"
capt on 07/02/2008 19:31:13
Quote by Raine:Quote by capt:Quote by Raine:
STOP the presses.
The FBI is proposing a policy to be able to question Americans with out charges?
Not sure what you're hearing but the "Patriot Act" allows ANY law enforcement to stop and question ANYBODY for no reason except the person is on public property.
This was tested and upheld by the SCOTUS.
(as far as I know)
Another AP article...Facism in America.The Justice Department is considering letting the FBI investigate Americans without any evidence of wrongdoing, relying instead on a terrorist profile that could single out Muslims, Arabs or other racial and ethnic groups.
Law enforcement officials say the proposed policy would help them do exactly what Congress demanded after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: root out terrorists before they strike.
Although President Bush has disavowed targeting suspects based on their race or ethnicity, the new rules would allow the FBI to consider those factors among a number of traits that could trigger a national security investigation.
Currently, FBI agents need specific reasons — like evidence or allegations that a law probably has been violated — to investigate U.S. citizens and legal residents. The new policy, law enforcement officials told The Associated Press, would let agents open preliminary terrorism investigations after mining public records and intelligence to build a profile of traits that, taken together, were deemed suspicious.
Here is the truth:
"Currently, FBI agents need specific reasons — like evidence or allegations "
If their supervisor or boss demands it. Not based on current case law.
I have family in the DOJ, trust me they have always used illegal methods.
An example - I know agents that have bugged places (without a warrant or permission from their supervisor). They know they can only use the info to build a case. Like they hear an illegal act will occur at 123 Maple street on Monday - they show up (coincidentally) and make the bust. The court (and not even their supervisor) ever need to know about the illegal bug.
Same across the board with all of our inalienable "rights"
Comment by TriSec on 07/02/2008 19:32:33
Oof. too many meetings...
We've been under a severe weather watch all afternoon....super-sized lightning strikes around us for a while now.
TriSec on 07/02/2008 19:32:33
Oof. too many meetings...We've been under a severe weather watch all afternoon....super-sized lightning strikes around us for a while now.
Comment by m-hadley on 07/02/2008 19:36:40
m-hadley on 07/02/2008 19:36:40
Just FYI, here is the upshot of the Hiibel Case - Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, Humboldt County, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), (referenced by Capt in his post about Ohio v. Terry)
Question
Did Hiibel's arrest and conviction for not telling a police officer his name violate his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself and his Fourth Amendment right to be free from an unreasonable search?
Conclusion
No. In a 5-to-4 opinion written by Justice Anthony Kennedy, the Court ruled that the search did not violate the Fourth Amendment because it was based on reasonable suspicion (the police officer was investigating the assault, and Hiibel was nearby) and involved only a minimally intrusive question (his name). It also did not violate the Fifth Amendment because Hiibel never argued that telling the officer his name would actually incriminate him of any crime. Justice Kennedy wrote, "While we recognize petitioner's strong belief that he should not have to disclose his identity, the Fifth Amendment does not override the Nevada Legislature's judgment to the contrary absent a reasonable belief that the disclosure would tend to incriminate him."
The lawyer in me coming out - bad lawyer, get back inside mf :bad:
Cheers,
mfaye
:D
Question
Did Hiibel's arrest and conviction for not telling a police officer his name violate his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself and his Fourth Amendment right to be free from an unreasonable search?
Conclusion
No. In a 5-to-4 opinion written by Justice Anthony Kennedy, the Court ruled that the search did not violate the Fourth Amendment because it was based on reasonable suspicion (the police officer was investigating the assault, and Hiibel was nearby) and involved only a minimally intrusive question (his name). It also did not violate the Fifth Amendment because Hiibel never argued that telling the officer his name would actually incriminate him of any crime. Justice Kennedy wrote, "While we recognize petitioner's strong belief that he should not have to disclose his identity, the Fifth Amendment does not override the Nevada Legislature's judgment to the contrary absent a reasonable belief that the disclosure would tend to incriminate him."
The lawyer in me coming out - bad lawyer, get back inside mf :bad:
Cheers,
mfaye
:D
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 19:40:29
Raine on 07/02/2008 19:40:29
You know, I love Randi, but I think there are far more important issues to discuss than this faith based initiative thing and wondering if she likes the idea or not.
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 19:46:48
capt on 07/02/2008 19:46:48
Feds Stopping Drivers in San Diego
The bottom line:
The bottom line:
These are "administrative" stops, not "criminal" stops, and therefore do not require probable cause.
They are akin to X-Ray scans at airports or agricultural inspections at the border.
Of course, if evidence of a crime is uncovered during an administrative search, it is completely admissable as evidence in a criminal proceeding.
Is this a great country, or what?
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 19:51:28
That is just Bullshit.
It has begun. May I see your papers?
Raine on 07/02/2008 19:51:28
Quote by capt:
Feds Stopping Drivers in San Diego
The bottom line:These are "administrative" stops, not "criminal" stops, and therefore do not require probable cause.
They are akin to X-Ray scans at airports or agricultural inspections at the border.
Of course, if evidence of a crime is uncovered during an administrative search, it is completely admissable as evidence in a criminal proceeding.
Is this a great country, or what?
It has begun. May I see your papers?
Comment by BobR on 07/02/2008 19:57:49
"Old man - you must sign ze papers..."
"I cannot sign the papers..."
"You MUST sign ze papers..."
*sssszzsssss*
"AAAARRRrggghhhhhh"
** "oh man - he put his cigarette out in his eye, man...."**
"Old man - will you now sign ze papers?"
"I cannot sign the papers"
"Und vhy can you not sign ze papers??"
"Because you have broken both of my hands..."
BobR on 07/02/2008 19:57:49
Quote by capt:
Even worse - to me, the guy in GITMO they want to charge with the USS Cole bombing (and use the death penalty) is being prosecuted with the ONLY evidence his confession while being waterboarded.
This is what America has become?
AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!
"Old man - you must sign ze papers..."
"I cannot sign the papers..."
"You MUST sign ze papers..."
*sssszzsssss*
"AAAARRRrggghhhhhh"
** "oh man - he put his cigarette out in his eye, man...."**
"Old man - will you now sign ze papers?"
"I cannot sign the papers"
"Und vhy can you not sign ze papers??"
"Because you have broken both of my hands..."
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 19:58:52
capt on 07/02/2008 19:58:52
My problem with Randi (if I actually have one) is:
She doesn't seem interested in what a callers opinion is, she wants to impose her opinion as the only "take" and is faultless.
Once she has decided what she thinks - nothing else matters.
She also comes across as oppositionally defiant at times and is too stubborn.
Some of the other talk show hosts - politely thanks the caller and move on. She could use a little more of that. IMHO
She doesn't seem interested in what a callers opinion is, she wants to impose her opinion as the only "take" and is faultless.
Once she has decided what she thinks - nothing else matters.
She also comes across as oppositionally defiant at times and is too stubborn.
Some of the other talk show hosts - politely thanks the caller and move on. She could use a little more of that. IMHO
Comment by livingonli on 07/02/2008 19:59:14
livingonli on 07/02/2008 19:59:14
If McSame becomes President or some other Fascist, I will be the one leaving for Canada.
But in the meantime it's another day of work.
But in the meantime it's another day of work.
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:01:32
capt on 07/02/2008 20:01:32
We have to stay and fight.
This is our country not some imported fascist's that are able to steal everything.
This is our country not some imported fascist's that are able to steal everything.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 20:03:46
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 20:03:46
Hello, everyone!
Here is an article that should explain a little bit about Obama's home loan, courtesy of Fivethirtyeight.com
Here is an article that should explain a little bit about Obama's home loan, courtesy of Fivethirtyeight.com
Irresponsible Journalism Alert
So Obama's rate was 30 basis points better than the average. However, the amount of the loan and the nature of the property are not the only factors that determine a mortgage rate. Another major consideration is the creditworthiness of the borrower. According to current rate quotes from myFICO.com, a borrower with very good credit can expect a mortgage rate about 30 basis points better than someone with pretty good credit, and a borrower with excellent credit can expect about a 50 basis point discount.
Unless the Washington Post has access to Obama's FICO score -- and unless it has rented an apartment to him, it probably doesn't -- it is missing a pretty important piece of information on what Obama's mortgage rate ought to have been. What was Obama's FICO score? I don't know, but considering that...
* Obama had just gotten a $2.27 million book deal from Random House -- about $1 million more than the value of the mortgage.
* The Obamas each had exceptionally secure jobs that paid them a combined annual salary of about $500,000 per year.
* The Obamas had just sold their condo, on which they had realized a $137,500 profit.
* The Obamas were prominent public figures whose political futures depended in part on maintaining a reputation for responsibility and trustworthiness.
* The Obamas are known to be relatively thrifty and have no credit card debt but substantial savings.
...I would think that the Obamas were exceptionally creditworthy. So indeed, Obama received a "discount" -- the same discount that any borrower in his position would have received.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 20:12:05
yeah. I wish I could disagree with you.
But when she is on point... damn she is so good. Today, and actually, this week (with the Wes Clark thing) I think she is just well, wrong.
And as far as this issue with the faith based initiatives, I just feel like she is being wishy washy... if she wants to come out against Barack, then fine, do it. But this *I don't Know * bs, I have very little tolerance for --- especially from someone like Randi, for those reasons that you listed capt.
Raine on 07/02/2008 20:12:05
Quote by capt:
My problem with Randi (if I actually have one) is:
She doesn't seem interested in what a callers opinion is, she wants to impose her opinion as the only "take" and is faultless.
Once she has decided what she thinks - nothing else matters.
She also comes across as oppositionally defiant at times and is too stubborn.
Some of the other talk show hosts - politely thanks the caller and move on. She could use a little more of that. IMHO
But when she is on point... damn she is so good. Today, and actually, this week (with the Wes Clark thing) I think she is just well, wrong.
And as far as this issue with the faith based initiatives, I just feel like she is being wishy washy... if she wants to come out against Barack, then fine, do it. But this *I don't Know * bs, I have very little tolerance for --- especially from someone like Randi, for those reasons that you listed capt.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 20:14:49
Raine on 07/02/2008 20:14:49
Quote by BobR:
"Old man - you must sign ze papers..."
"I cannot sign the papers..."
"You MUST sign ze papers..."
*sssszzsssss*
"AAAARRRrggghhhhhh"
** "oh man - he put his cigarette out in his eye, man...."**
"Old man - will you now sign ze papers?"
"I cannot sign the papers"
"Und vhy can you not sign ze papers??"
"Because you have broken both of my hands..."
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:15:13
If there were any real journalists they would look into the preferential treatment the McCain's have on all of their financial dealings.
I understand they run (no charge) Amex numbers that make normal people faint. Not to mention the $7k they were arrears on the SD property taxes.
UGH! The M$M is as culpable and responsible as the politicians. Maybe even more so.
capt on 07/02/2008 20:15:13
Quote by will in chicago:
Hello, everyone!
Here is an article that should explain a little bit about Obama's home loan, courtesy of Fivethirtyeight.com
Irresponsible Journalism Alert
So Obama's rate was 30 basis points better than the average. However, the amount of the loan and the nature of the property are not the only factors that determine a mortgage rate. Another major consideration is the creditworthiness of the borrower. According to current rate quotes from myFICO.com, a borrower with very good credit can expect a mortgage rate about 30 basis points better than someone with pretty good credit, and a borrower with excellent credit can expect about a 50 basis point discount.
Unless the Washington Post has access to Obama's FICO score -- and unless it has rented an apartment to him, it probably doesn't -- it is missing a pretty important piece of information on what Obama's mortgage rate ought to have been. What was Obama's FICO score? I don't know, but considering that...
* Obama had just gotten a $2.27 million book deal from Random House -- about $1 million more than the value of the mortgage.
* The Obamas each had exceptionally secure jobs that paid them a combined annual salary of about $500,000 per year.
* The Obamas had just sold their condo, on which they had realized a $137,500 profit.
* The Obamas were prominent public figures whose political futures depended in part on maintaining a reputation for responsibility and trustworthiness.
* The Obamas are known to be relatively thrifty and have no credit card debt but substantial savings.
...I would think that the Obamas were exceptionally creditworthy. So indeed, Obama received a "discount" -- the same discount that any borrower in his position would have received.
If there were any real journalists they would look into the preferential treatment the McCain's have on all of their financial dealings.
I understand they run (no charge) Amex numbers that make normal people faint. Not to mention the $7k they were arrears on the SD property taxes.
UGH! The M$M is as culpable and responsible as the politicians. Maybe even more so.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 20:16:32
Raine on 07/02/2008 20:16:32
:rage: WHY are we worried about these grants for a department that won't be put together till AFTER we get him elected?
Seriously. This entire show is theoretical. A strawman show. There I said it.
Seriously. This entire show is theoretical. A strawman show. There I said it.
Comment by starling310 on 07/02/2008 20:17:03
starling310 on 07/02/2008 20:17:03
to hear randi talking about what she thinks is the "way to peace" is kind of laughable. i think randi is smart. i think randi has a lot of passion and good things to say. i do not, however, think she is an arbiter of peace. just sayin. . .
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:18:22
capt on 07/02/2008 20:18:22
Courtesy of Kos:
[Scene: Madison Cube Garden Corridor. Zoidberg comes out of the Gents and approaches a vendor.]
Zoidberg: I'd like a jumbo squid log, please.
Vendor: We don't sell those.
Zoidberg: Alright, alright. Let me have one of your young on a roll.
Vendor: We're outta rolls.
Zoidberg: Fine! Just give me something crawling with parasites.
[Cut to: Madison Cube Garden. Back in the bleachers, Zoidberg eat a hotdog and purrs. The others have hotdogs too. Fry takes a bite.]
Fry: Mmm. At least hotdogs haven't changed.
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:22:32
A very telling thing, that. Like there are no real and important issues to address?
We are in the middle of a general election?
Iraq? Oil? The economy?
Well, I guess when the multinationals own everything media related it is always about profit and NOT talking about those things is the most profitable. (so sez the prophet profit)
capt on 07/02/2008 20:22:32
Quote by Raine:
:rage: WHY are we worried about these grants for a department that won't be put together till AFTER we get him elected?
Seriously. This entire show is theoretical. A strawman show. There I said it.
A very telling thing, that. Like there are no real and important issues to address?
We are in the middle of a general election?
Iraq? Oil? The economy?
Well, I guess when the multinationals own everything media related it is always about profit and NOT talking about those things is the most profitable. (so sez the prophet profit)
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 20:23:08
Random on 07/02/2008 20:23:08
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:24:16
capt on 07/02/2008 20:24:16
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:25:58
capt on 07/02/2008 20:25:58
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it.
~ Dick Cavett
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 20:27:08
Random on 07/02/2008 20:27:08
I wonder why I come to this blog sometimes.
It's all too heavy for me.
It's all too heavy for me.
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:35:41
capt on 07/02/2008 20:35:41
I didn't mean to be a buzzkill. . . 
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:41:25
capt on 07/02/2008 20:41:25
Fake Federal Agent Fought Own Private Drug War
Sgt. Bill said he didn't need a warrant because he worked for the federal government. Turns out, he was just some random guy.
****
One more reason to preserve our rights and why warrants are necessary.
Sgt. Bill said he didn't need a warrant because he worked for the federal government. Turns out, he was just some random guy.
****
One more reason to preserve our rights and why warrants are necessary.
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 20:44:40
I was more refering to general content then you specifically.
Random on 07/02/2008 20:44:40
Quote by capt:
I didn't mean to be a buzzkill. . .
I was more refering to general content then you specifically.
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:47:56
Randi: I am broad-minded and you are not. (end of discussion)
capt on 07/02/2008 20:47:56
Randi: I am broad-minded and you are not. (end of discussion)
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:48:47
I still never want to be a putz.
capt on 07/02/2008 20:48:47
Quote by Random:Quote by capt:
I didn't mean to be a buzzkill. . .
I was more refering to general content then you specifically.
I still never want to be a putz.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 20:50:59
Raine on 07/02/2008 20:50:59
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 20:52:57
Eh...you're not.
Sometimes i get tired of heavy stuff...It doesn't fit Random too well.
Random on 07/02/2008 20:52:57
Quote by capt:Quote by Random:Quote by capt:
I didn't mean to be a buzzkill. . .
I was more refering to general content then you specifically.
I still never want to be a putz.
Eh...you're not.
Sometimes i get tired of heavy stuff...It doesn't fit Random too well.
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 20:53:40
you come for the you stay for the
Raine on 07/02/2008 20:53:40
Quote by Random:
I wonder why I come to this blog sometimes.
It's all too heavy for me.
you come for the
you stay for the
Comment by capt on 07/02/2008 20:55:10
capt on 07/02/2008 20:55:10
The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not.
~ Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 20:59:43
I agree! as usual, you said it better than I could.
Sorry if I got too heavy on das blog. I usually try to mix it up... besides. Random Love, you should come on in and lighten us up!
Raine on 07/02/2008 20:59:43
Quote by starling310:
to hear randi talking about what she thinks is the "way to peace" is kind of laughable. i think randi is smart. i think randi has a lot of passion and good things to say. i do not, however, think she is an arbiter of peace. just sayin. . .
Sorry if I got too heavy on das blog. I usually try to mix it up... besides. Random Love, you should come on in and lighten us up!
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 21:09:30
Eh, Random's out of sorts. Probably will be for a week...
*sighs*
That and Random's only got one schtick, and i've used that up already.
Random on 07/02/2008 21:09:30
Quote by Raine:I agree! as usual, you said it better than I could.Quote by starling310:
to hear randi talking about what she thinks is the "way to peace" is kind of laughable. i think randi is smart. i think randi has a lot of passion and good things to say. i do not, however, think she is an arbiter of peace. just sayin. . .
Sorry if I got too heavy on das blog. I usually try to mix it up... besides. Random Love, you should come on in and lighten us up!
Eh, Random's out of sorts. Probably will be for a week...
*sighs*
That and Random's only got one schtick, and i've used that up already.
Comment by wickedpam on 07/02/2008 21:20:29
wickedpam on 07/02/2008 21:20:29
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 21:33:34
Okay, I will listen to Marc Maron on delay here until it is time for Jeff Farias on KPHX. (I catch Rachel after Malloy.)
Rachel Maddow - a woman who can keep me up for hours.... Hmm, that does not quite sound right! ;)
As for Randi, being an arbiter of peace, I do not see it. Thom Hartmann and Rachel Maddow, yes. However, Randi does not strike me as being in line to be Secretary of State.
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 21:33:34
Quote by Raine:
:rage: WHY are we worried about these grants for a department that won't be put together till AFTER we get him elected?
Seriously. This entire show is theoretical. A strawman show. There I said it.
Okay, I will listen to Marc Maron on delay here until it is time for Jeff Farias on KPHX. (I catch Rachel after Malloy.)
Rachel Maddow - a woman who can keep me up for hours.... Hmm, that does not quite sound right! ;)
As for Randi, being an arbiter of peace, I do not see it. Thom Hartmann and Rachel Maddow, yes. However, Randi does not strike me as being in line to be Secretary of State.
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 21:34:03
Random on 07/02/2008 21:34:03
Strange...Usually Random needs to take a nap about mid-day, but ever since Random stopped drinking soda, he's had energy, and doesn't need a nap.
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 21:36:55
I always thought of Stephanie as an arbiter of peace.
*resists making arbiter of piece of ass joke*
Random on 07/02/2008 21:36:55
Quote by will in chicago:Quote by Raine:
:rage: WHY are we worried about these grants for a department that won't be put together till AFTER we get him elected?
Seriously. This entire show is theoretical. A strawman show. There I said it.
Okay, I will listen to Marc Maron on delay here until it is time for Jeff Farias on KPHX. (I catch Rachel after Malloy.)
Rachel Maddow - a woman who can keep me up for hours.... Hmm, that does not quite sound right! ;)
As for Randi, being an arbiter of peace, I do not see it. Thom Hartmann and Rachel Maddow, yes. However, Randi does not strike me as being in line to be Secretary of State.
I always thought of Stephanie as an arbiter of peace.
*resists making arbiter of piece of ass joke*
Comment by Shane-O on 07/02/2008 22:05:01
Shane-O on 07/02/2008 22:05:01
I put up a little bloggie rant about the profit driven press here if anyone wants to take a peek. All the YouTube clips are short... :)
Comment by clintster on 07/02/2008 22:24:44
clintster on 07/02/2008 22:24:44
Hey Shane-O, I noticed that you haven't updated the clips lately. Will you be uploading some soon? 
Comment by Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 22:39:35
Will in Chicago on 07/02/2008 22:39:35
Raine, the link you posted earlier about needing help until 6 AM leads to Shane-O's blog entry. Is this where you need the help?
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 22:40:16
IT is worth MORE than a peek. Excellent commentary Shane-O.
Raine on 07/02/2008 22:40:16
Quote by Shane-O:
I put up a little bloggie rant about the profit driven press here if anyone wants to take a peek. All the YouTube clips are short... :)
Comment by Raine on 07/02/2008 22:47:32
OOpsie!
I posted a link to the *latest* blog post instead of the perma link!
The ONE day we actually have three blogs, and look what happens...:rofl:
HERE is where I need the assistance of 4F'rs, and anyone else who wants to participate.
Raine on 07/02/2008 22:47:32
Quote by will in chicago:
Raine, the link you posted earlier about needing help until 6 AM leads to Shane-O's blog entry. Is this where you need the help?
I posted a link to the *latest* blog post instead of the perma link!
The ONE day we actually have three blogs, and look what happens...:rofl:
HERE is where I need the assistance of 4F'rs, and anyone else who wants to participate.
Comment by Random on 07/02/2008 23:33:36
Random on 07/02/2008 23:33:36
Wow...It's just three months now...
Comment by IzzyBitz on 07/03/2008 00:25:12
I hope you and Stephen Baldwin have a wonderful life together.
:boyboykiss:
:D
IzzyBitz on 07/03/2008 00:25:12
Quote by livingonli:
If McSame becomes President or some other Fascist, I will be the one leaving for Canada.
But in the meantime it's another day of work.
I hope you and Stephen Baldwin have a wonderful life together.
:boyboykiss:
:D
Comment by Random on 07/03/2008 00:39:17
Random on 07/03/2008 00:39:17
Comment by Raine on 07/03/2008 00:47:43
I know, where DOES the time go.
:P
Raine on 07/03/2008 00:47:43
Quote by Random:
Wow...It's just three months now...
I know, where DOES the time go.
:P
Comment by Raine on 07/03/2008 00:48:50
:rofl:
Raine on 07/03/2008 00:48:50
Quote by IzzyBitz:Quote by livingonli:
If McSame becomes President or some other Fascist, I will be the one leaving for Canada.
But in the meantime it's another day of work.
I hope you and Stephen Baldwin have a wonderful life together.
:boyboykiss:
:D
Comment by Random on 07/03/2008 00:50:22
I dunno...Creepy though...Still working on a few things for election night.
Random on 07/03/2008 00:50:22
Quote by Raine:Quote by Random:
Wow...It's just three months now...
I know, where DOES the time go.
:P
I dunno...Creepy though...Still working on a few things for election night.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/03/2008 00:52:47
Mondobubba on 07/03/2008 00:52:47
Ohh :swoon: Dr Maddow guest hosting on Countdown.
Comment by livingonli on 07/03/2008 00:59:13
Except I would be going if Grampy wins while he stays here and if Obama wins, he would be going while I stay here. So I ain't touching him with a 100-ft. pole or mAnn Coulter's dick.
livingonli on 07/03/2008 00:59:13
Quote by IzzyBitz:Quote by livingonli:
If McSame becomes President or some other Fascist, I will be the one leaving for Canada.
But in the meantime it's another day of work.
I hope you and Stephen Baldwin have a wonderful life together.
:boyboykiss:
:D
Except I would be going if Grampy wins while he stays here and if Obama wins, he would be going while I stay here. So I ain't touching him with a 100-ft. pole or mAnn Coulter's dick.
Comment by Mondobubba on 07/03/2008 00:59:21
Mondobubba on 07/03/2008 00:59:21
More proof that the Republican party gets the crappy celebrities. Erik Estrada. Fin.
Comment by IzzyBitz on 07/03/2008 01:11:35
You just don't know how to vacation properly, do you?!
IzzyBitz on 07/03/2008 01:11:35
Quote by livingonli:Quote by IzzyBitz:Quote by livingonli:
If McSame becomes President or some other Fascist, I will be the one leaving for Canada.
But in the meantime it's another day of work.
I hope you and Stephen Baldwin have a wonderful life together.
:boyboykiss:
:D
Except I would be going if Grampy wins while he stays here and if Obama wins, he would be going while I stay here. So I ain't touching him with a 100-ft. pole or mAnn Coulter's dick.
You just don't know how to vacation properly, do you?!
Comment by livingonli on 07/03/2008 01:14:42
Or the less talented. Even the mighty John Wayne could only play certain types of roles. He did not have the acting range of other more talented actors in his day.
livingonli on 07/03/2008 01:14:42
Quote by Mondobubba:
More proof that the Republican party gets the crappy celebrities. Erik Estrada. Fin.
Or the less talented. Even the mighty John Wayne could only play certain types of roles. He did not have the acting range of other more talented actors in his day.
Comment by Random on 07/03/2008 01:18:21
Clint Eastwood. Man with No name trilogy.
Certainly as a director, he's proven to be a higher quality celebrity. Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby.
Random on 07/03/2008 01:18:21
Quote by livingonli:Quote by Mondobubba:
More proof that the Republican party gets the crappy celebrities. Erik Estrada. Fin.
Or the less talented. Even the mighty John Wayne could only play certain types of roles. He did not have the acting range of other more talented actors in his day.
Clint Eastwood. Man with No name trilogy.
Certainly as a director, he's proven to be a higher quality celebrity. Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby.
Comment by Random on 07/03/2008 01:19:40
Random on 07/03/2008 01:19:40
Alright, since Random is trying to assemble a pool for the election, and is a well known Apathetic young person, put in your requests for pool questions now.
Comment by livingonli on 07/03/2008 01:19:55
He is the exception but politically he seems more Libertarian then modern GOPer (also known as a Bushbot).
livingonli on 07/03/2008 01:19:55
Quote by Random:Quote by livingonli:Quote by Mondobubba:
More proof that the Republican party gets the crappy celebrities. Erik Estrada. Fin.
Or the less talented. Even the mighty John Wayne could only play certain types of roles. He did not have the acting range of other more talented actors in his day.
Clint Eastwood. Man with No name trilogy.
Certainly as a director, he's proven to be a higher quality celebrity. Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby.
He is the exception but politically he seems more Libertarian then modern GOPer (also known as a Bushbot).
Comment by Random on 07/03/2008 01:24:04
He's an older Republican, has different set of values then those in power now.
Eastwood is still kick-ass.
Random on 07/03/2008 01:24:04
Quote by livingonli:Quote by Random:Quote by livingonli:Quote by Mondobubba:
More proof that the Republican party gets the crappy celebrities. Erik Estrada. Fin.
Or the less talented. Even the mighty John Wayne could only play certain types of roles. He did not have the acting range of other more talented actors in his day.
Clint Eastwood. Man with No name trilogy.
Certainly as a director, he's proven to be a higher quality celebrity. Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby.
He is the exception but politically he seems more Libertarian then modern GOPer (also known as a Bushbot).
He's an older Republican, has different set of values then those in power now.
Eastwood is still kick-ass.