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Circling the Bowl
Author: BobR    Date: 04/27/2016 10:45:04

It's just about at end (apologies to states with primaries in Mid-May to June). This presidential campaign - which seemingly began immediately after President Obama was reelected in 2012 - has been steaming towards what seems to be the inevitable final showdown: Donald Trump -vs- Hillary Clinton.

Trump as the Republican candidate was not what anyone predicted, and not what anyone wanted. He's a joke, a showman, a used-car salesman, an intellectual fraud (which is saying a lot). Republic primary voters saw their clown car full of single-issue extremists and dullards, and decided to go all-in with the anti-politician candidate. Who better to be president than someone who doesn't know the first thing about how government actually works?

On the Democratic side, it started out interesting. Clinton was the assumed candidate, but the question was: who would run against her? Senator Bernie Sanders and Governor Martin O'Malley decided to give it a shot. O'Malley was definitely on the edges - he really had no national profile. Sanders was an odd choice as well - not a member of the Democratic party, he decided to run as one anyway. Most Dems welcomed him despite that as a foil to the perceived coronation of Clinton. It was certainly questionable how well he would be able to do as an "outsider" to the party (although very much an insider with regards to politics and the government). He has done exceedingly well.

The problem of course with this excessively long primary season is that nerves get frazzled, and things get ugly. Four years ago, it was the campaigns themselves that started getting dirty. This year, the campaigns have stayed mostly above the fray, but it's been the supporters (particularly on social media) who have been rolling in the mud like like pigs fighting over a cob of corn.

Last campaign, it was Clinton who got ugly. She seems to have mostly learned the lessons of that failed campaign. This time, it's Sanders' supporters who have not yet met a paranoid conspiracy theory they didn't embrace, and threaten to withhold their vote in the General if their candidate is not selected - popular vote be damned. Any time he loses a state, they blame "cheating" and "dirty tricks" on the Clinton campaign, and collusion between the campaign and elected officials in the various states.

The latest one involved several of Sanders support groups on Facebook "disappearing" the night before yesterday's primaries. Naturally - the Clinton campaign was blamed for paying trolls to spam the groups with porn, forcing a shutdown. The truth is a lot less interesting (apologies for linking to The Daily Beast). Does the truth matter? Will everyone posting false stories about the apocryphal porn spamming remove their posts and issue an apology? I won't hold my breath.

After yesterday's primaries, it seems that a mathematical path to the nomination has been eliminated for all but Trump, for better or worse, and Clinton maintains her solid lead. This likely won't be put to bed until June 7, when California and New Jersey vote. Most Sanders supporters are rational people who know what a horror show our country would be with a Trump presidency, and will hold their noses and vote for Clinton in the General, should that the be outcome. Some of them have suggested a 3rd party run for Sanders (or a write in campaign, something Sanders will likely ask his supporters NOT to do). You know who else supports Sanders running as a 3rd party candidate?

Trump

That should tell you all you need to know.
 

29 comments (Latest Comment: 04/27/2016 19:07:30 by trojanrabbit)
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Comment by Mondobubba on 04/27/2016 13:23:37
Morning? Hello? :echoes:

Comment by TriSec on 04/27/2016 13:27:10
The primary process is so long and disturbing that I stopped paying attention weeks ago, if not months.

The loyal core of each candidate will turn out, but my fear is the casual voter already doesn't care anymore.

Comment by wickedpam on 04/27/2016 13:41:27
Morning

Omg, so much this! Had to mute a friend from elementary school cause of he Bernie Bro crap on FB. All I did was post that I'm vote for whoever is the candidate and he spammed my TL with anti-Hillary crap. Told him to stop like 6 times!

Like you said, most Bernie supports totally rational, sane people who understand what's going on. Then there are the nutballs! Geez.

Comment by BobR on 04/27/2016 13:45:32
Also in Circling the Bowl news - my gastrointestinal issues are apparently not yet completely cleared up. That made for a stressful commute this morning...

Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/27/2016 13:46:36
I believe that Bernie Sanders will continue his campaign until the convention as he promised to do so. In the end, he likely wishes to influence the party's platform and the direction of the party. However, i think that were it not for a vigorous campaign for the nomination among the Democrats, we would have seen Hillary Clinton run unopposed and not be challenged as a candidate -- and see even more coverage of Trump, Cruz and the rest ad nauseam. I think that Hillary Clinton has become a stronger candidate due to a serious challenge.

I do not think that Sanders will run as an independent. However, I think questioning why the number of polling places in metro Phoenix were reduced to 60 polling places is not paranoia. Also, I seem to recall that New York City Mayor Bill deBlasio has offered nearly $20 million to have the board of elections clean up its act.

I plan to vote for Bernie Sanders in the Indiana primary next week as I find myself more ideologically aligned to him than Hillary Clinton. However, I will support the Democratic nominee - likely to be Hillary Clinton - over any Republican. The current GOP would probably consider the positions of Ronald Reagan to be far too liberal for their liking, let alone his record of compromising with Democrats.

Comment by BobR on 04/27/2016 13:56:05
Quote by Will in Chicago:
I believe that Bernie Sanders will continue his campaign until the convention as he promised to do so. In the end, he likely wishes to influence the party's platform and the direction of the party. However, i think that were it not for a vigorous campaign for the nomination among the Democrats, we would have seen Hillary Clinton run unopposed and not be challenged as a candidate -- and see even more coverage of Trump, Cruz and the rest ad nauseam. I think that Hillary Clinton has become a stronger candidate due to a serious challenge.

I do not think that Sanders will run as an independent. However, I think questioning why the number of polling places in metro Phoenix were reduced to 60 polling places is not paranoia. Also, I seem to recall that New York City Mayor Bill deBlasio has offered nearly $20 million to have the board of elections clean up its act.

I plan to vote for Bernie Sanders in the Indiana primary next week as I find myself more ideologically aligned to him than Hillary Clinton. However, I will support the Democratic nominee - likely to be Hillary Clinton - over any Republican. The current GOP would probably consider the positions of Ronald Reagan to be far too liberal for their liking, let alone his record of compromising with Democrats.

I can certainly respect all of this. What doesn't make sense is the claim that reducing the number of polling places (wherever it has occurred) somehow benefits the Clinton campaign and/or hurts the Sanders campaign. That is where the paranoia creeps in.

Comment by BobR on 04/27/2016 13:57:48
also (FWIW, and Raine will attest to this): NY state politics have been a messy business for a long time.

Comment by Raine on 04/27/2016 13:57:54
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.



Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/27/2016 14:05:37
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Will in Chicago:
I believe that Bernie Sanders will continue his campaign until the convention as he promised to do so. In the end, he likely wishes to influence the party's platform and the direction of the party. However, i think that were it not for a vigorous campaign for the nomination among the Democrats, we would have seen Hillary Clinton run unopposed and not be challenged as a candidate -- and see even more coverage of Trump, Cruz and the rest ad nauseam. I think that Hillary Clinton has become a stronger candidate due to a serious challenge.

I do not think that Sanders will run as an independent. However, I think questioning why the number of polling places in metro Phoenix were reduced to 60 polling places is not paranoia. Also, I seem to recall that New York City Mayor Bill deBlasio has offered nearly $20 million to have the board of elections clean up its act.

I plan to vote for Bernie Sanders in the Indiana primary next week as I find myself more ideologically aligned to him than Hillary Clinton. However, I will support the Democratic nominee - likely to be Hillary Clinton - over any Republican. The current GOP would probably consider the positions of Ronald Reagan to be far too liberal for their liking, let alone his record of compromising with Democrats.

I can certainly respect all of this. What doesn't make sense is the claim that reducing the number of polling places (wherever it has occurred) somehow benefits the Clinton campaign and/or hurts the Sanders campaign. That is where the paranoia creeps in.



Some of Clinton's and Sander's most rabid fans have raised my ire. (Last I checked, Bernie was neither senile or an egotist who is being pushed by his wife. Nor do I think that staying home will do anything to help promote progressive policies.)

I think that some people are desperate. I tend to think in terms of movements and the long term. I would argue that Sanders has forced Clinton to address income inequality, the TPP (which she no longer supports), and other issues that she would not have addressed so fully without a challenger. (I still worry that Hillary Clinton will have to pull out all the stops this fall, as I do not see her as much as a skilled campaigner as her husband.) Regardless, I think most Democrats will vote blue this fall. As for Trump and Cruz or any other Republican nominee, let's remember that they are relying on the same George W. Bush foreign policy advisers that got us into Iraq and the same George W. Bush economic policy advisers that brought us the Great Recession. America cannot afford more disastrous wars and global recessions, so vote blue in November.

Comment by Scoopster on 04/27/2016 14:06:50
Good morning from Bernie Island!

Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/27/2016 14:07:11
Quote by BobR:
also (FWIW, and Raine will attest to this): NY state politics have been a messy business for a long time.


It does seem to be a mess. Then again, as a Chicago native, I am used to messy politics.

Comment by wickedpam on 04/27/2016 14:11:55
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.




I steered clear of anything critical, they are both great. But it seems you can't even say you UntieBlue and you get jumped on by some.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/27/2016 14:13:27
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.




I steered clear of anything critical, they are both great. But it seems you can't even say you UntieBlue and you get jumped on by some.


There are always going to be some people who will never be won over. However, I say that it is better to have a seat at the table rather than be shut out of the room.


Comment by Scoopster on 04/27/2016 14:16:08
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.

I steered clear of anything critical, they are both great. But it seems you can't even say you UntieBlue and you get jumped on by some.

I have absolutely no problem calling out either candidate, their campaign or their supporters when they do or say stupid or backhanded stuff. As long as it's done without insults or false info. If someone wants to take offense to that, it's on them not me.

Comment by BobR on 04/27/2016 14:18:30
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.


I haven't felt the need to criticize Sanders OR Clinton. No sense helping the Republicans with their attacks. But to echo Mala - saying "vote blue no matter who" seems to get a certain segment of a certain candidate's worshipers extremely upset.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/27/2016 14:22:16
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.


I haven't felt the need to criticize Sanders OR Clinton. No sense helping the Republicans with their attacks. But to echo Mala - saying "vote blue no matter who" seems to get a certain segment of a certain candidate's worshipers extremely upset.


For some people, identifying with a political candidate is almost like belonging to a religious faith or being a strong backer of a sports team. And BobR, I have seen a few Clinton supporters on Facebook say that they would not support Bernie as they feel that he is an unqualified candidate and have called him misogynistic. Bernie misogynistic? Please, I hate to see what ads that the GOP will run this fall.


Comment by Mondobubba on 04/27/2016 14:26:30
Quote by TriSec:
The primary process is so long and disturbing that I stopped paying attention weeks ago, if not months.

The loyal core of each candidate will turn out, but my fear is the casual voter already doesn't care anymore.



Actually, the casual voter isn't even paying attention yet.

Comment by BobR on 04/27/2016 14:27:15
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.


I haven't felt the need to criticize Sanders OR Clinton. No sense helping the Republicans with their attacks. But to echo Mala - saying "vote blue no matter who" seems to get a certain segment of a certain candidate's worshipers extremely upset.


For some people, identifying with a political candidate is almost like belonging to a religious faith or being a strong backer of a sports team. And BobR, I have seen a few Clinton supporters on Facebook say that they would not support Bernie as they feel that he is an unqualified candidate and have called him misogynistic. Bernie misogynistic? Please, I hate to see what ads that the GOP will run this fall.

I have come across a few of those assholes myself. I just find the Sander's acolytes more virulent, both in number and aggressiveness.

You make a disturbing point though. We are supposed to be electing people to represent us in government. This is not "yay for our team" sports, and it's not some "leader" to take us to the promised land. We are electing people to speak for us in government.

Comment by wickedpam on 04/27/2016 14:33:41
Quote by Scoopster:
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.

I steered clear of anything critical, they are both great. But it seems you can't even say you UntieBlue and you get jumped on by some.

I have absolutely no problem calling out either candidate, their campaign or their supporters when they do or say stupid or backhanded stuff. As long as it's done without insults or false info. If someone wants to take offense to that, it's on them not me.


If I had a major problem with either of them I would not have had a problem either. I do think they are both pretty great. I've kept minor issues I have to myself, cause they are issues I have. Its not to sway anyone either way.


Comment by Mondobubba on 04/27/2016 14:34:49
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.


I haven't felt the need to criticize Sanders OR Clinton. No sense helping the Republicans with their attacks. But to echo Mala - saying "vote blue no matter who" seems to get a certain segment of a certain candidate's worshipers extremely upset.


For some people, identifying with a political candidate is almost like belonging to a religious faith or being a strong backer of a sports team. And BobR, I have seen a few Clinton supporters on Facebook say that they would not support Bernie as they feel that he is an unqualified candidate and have called him misogynistic. Bernie misogynistic? Please, I hate to see what ads that the GOP will run this fall.

I have come across a few of those assholes myself. I just find the Sander's acolytes more virulent, both in number and aggressiveness.

You make a disturbing point though. We are supposed to be electing people to represent us in government. This is not "yay for our team" sports, and it's not some "leader" to take us to the promised land. We are electing people to speak for us in government.


It took about five minutes from my used to be a Republican now turned progressive populist Bernie or Bust friend to start posting dark conspiracy crap about "voting irregularities" in Maryland and Pennsylvania favoring Hillary. :eyeroll: I really had to stop myself from posting something about how you steal elections. You certainly don't do it states/districts where you have a giant margin of victory. You steal them where you have a tiny margin of victory, like Bush in Florida or Lyndon Johnson did in the 1948 Senate election. He won that by the results of one ballot box in one county in South Texas. 87 votes.



Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/27/2016 14:37:52
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

I have been nervous about posting anything critical about either candidate on my FB feed.


I haven't felt the need to criticize Sanders OR Clinton. No sense helping the Republicans with their attacks. But to echo Mala - saying "vote blue no matter who" seems to get a certain segment of a certain candidate's worshipers extremely upset.


For some people, identifying with a political candidate is almost like belonging to a religious faith or being a strong backer of a sports team. And BobR, I have seen a few Clinton supporters on Facebook say that they would not support Bernie as they feel that he is an unqualified candidate and have called him misogynistic. Bernie misogynistic? Please, I hate to see what ads that the GOP will run this fall.

I have come across a few of those assholes myself. I just find the Sander's acolytes more virulent, both in number and aggressiveness.

You make a disturbing point though. We are supposed to be electing people to represent us in government. This is not "yay for our team" sports, and it's not some "leader" to take us to the promised land. We are electing people to speak for us in government.



I want representatives, not leaders. Trump and Cruz act as if fate has anointed them. (In the case of Cruz, his Dad says God annointed him.) I believe in representational government, not monarchs by another name. In the case of Trump and Cruz, I fear tht they would just rely on advisers tied to Bush and Cheney -- and we will have a very rough few years with either of them. A LOT of the country is still recovering from the recession. At times, I think my Master's degree in Education is hardly worth the paper it is printed on. A lot of people are trying to keep hope going. So, is it not surprising that there are supporters of Sanders, Clinton, Trump, and Cruz who see them as messiahs. I focus on moving forward through hard work, hoping for the best while trying to make it happen. I can see Sanders or Clinton both doing things in office that I would support. It is hard to think of anything that Trump or Cruz could do in office that I would support.

Comment by TriSec on 04/27/2016 15:27:57
I like Bernie ( and voted for him.). I don't like Hilary. I like the Republicans even less than Hilary.

Honestly, this isn't hard - it's holding my nose and voting for Martha Coakley again. The Common Good far outweighs any shortcomings on Hilary's part.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/27/2016 15:32:17
Quote by TriSec:
I like Bernie ( and voted for him.). I don't like Hilary. I like the Republicans even less than Hilary.

Honestly, this isn't hard - it's holding my nose and voting for Martha Coakley again. The Common Good far outweighs any shortcomings on Hilary's part.


TriSec, I am applying to jobs in your state and hope to be there this fall. Would it be in bad form to refer to a certain former candidate as Martha Chokeley? ;)

Comment by Scoopster on 04/27/2016 17:18:19
So Hastert gets 15 months for the abuse coverup. Now they just need to try him for the actual abuse and put him away for the rest of his life.

Comment by TriSec on 04/27/2016 18:05:31
The hell? Most of my gavourite Prince tracks are nsfw... Back to the headset!



Comment by Will in Chicago on 04/27/2016 18:36:40
Quote by Scoopster:
So Hastert gets 15 months for the abuse coverup. Now they just need to try him for the actual abuse and put him away for the rest of his life.



I fear that the statutes of limitation expired. I don't see a reason for statutes of limitation in sexual abuse cases. Personally, I wish that Hastert was going to be locked away until his body is brought out in a bag.

Comment by BobR on 04/27/2016 18:46:53
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Quote by Scoopster:
So Hastert gets 15 months for the abuse coverup. Now they just need to try him for the actual abuse and put him away for the rest of his life.



I fear that the statutes of limitation expired. I don't see a reason for statutes of limitation in sexual abuse cases. Personally, I wish that Hastert was going to be locked away until his body is brought out in a bag.

I suspect that's going to be the case anyway. He can pretend he needs that wheelchair for now to get special consideration, but it will only protect him for so long. Prison is not kind to child molesters.

Comment by trojanrabbit on 04/27/2016 19:07:30
So Rafael is making a major announcement at 4PM?

He must have won a "major award".

Can't be that he's picking Failorina to be his stumbling mate.