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Not a loss; Not a Win
Author: Raine
Date: 06/21/2017 12:58:38
Jon Ossoff lost last night.
However, while the talking heads are acting like Karen Handel is the second coming of the GOP, there are a few things to keep in mind.
We didn't lose that seat. One can't lose what one doesn't have. Georgia 6th has been in Republican hands since 1979. I could talk about gerrymandering, secret money, and voter suppression -- all of which occur in Georgia. I'll save that for others to opine upon. I want to talk about the bright side of things.
Jon Ossoff is 30 years old and this was his first political campaign. He gained national stature. He interned for Representative Jon Lewis and worked for Representative Hank Johnson. He's not going away unless he chooses to. The GOP didn't really win last night.
You'll have to forgive me, but I call bullshit on every article that says this election should be a wake-up call for the Democratic Party. It is remarkable that he came withing spitting distance to winning that seat. There is reason to feel disappointed but there is also a great reason to not give up hope.
We have nothing to be ashamed of. Karen Handel's win is not a huge victory. Most of these special elections ending with a 5 point margin or so should worry the GOP more than the Dems -- especially in a seat like Georgia 6.
Remember, this election was a runoff due to no candidate getting 50% of the vote on April 18. On that day, Ossoff got 48.12% of the vote. Handel received 19.77% among 18 people on the ballot. of those, 5 were Democrats, 2 were independent and the rest Republican.
Less than 2 percentage points would have ended the race. In the April election, 192,569 people voted. Last night, 259,488* people voted. Getting out and voting matters. The latest result?
Handel: 51.9%
Jon Ossoff: 48.1%
That is nothing to be ashamed of. The Ossoff race brought thousands of people onto the voter rolls and into the political process. We keep those people mobilized and bring others into the party -- we will win. It's the long game. That how the GOP does it and it is time for us to play it. Now is not the time to give up.
We came closer than we ever should have in a district no one ever thought would be flipped. I am looking forward to 2018.
and 
Raine
(*Current totals may change)
However, while the talking heads are acting like Karen Handel is the second coming of the GOP, there are a few things to keep in mind.
We didn't lose that seat. One can't lose what one doesn't have. Georgia 6th has been in Republican hands since 1979. I could talk about gerrymandering, secret money, and voter suppression -- all of which occur in Georgia. I'll save that for others to opine upon. I want to talk about the bright side of things.
Jon Ossoff is 30 years old and this was his first political campaign. He gained national stature. He interned for Representative Jon Lewis and worked for Representative Hank Johnson. He's not going away unless he chooses to. The GOP didn't really win last night.
You'll have to forgive me, but I call bullshit on every article that says this election should be a wake-up call for the Democratic Party. It is remarkable that he came withing spitting distance to winning that seat. There is reason to feel disappointed but there is also a great reason to not give up hope.
We have nothing to be ashamed of. Karen Handel's win is not a huge victory. Most of these special elections ending with a 5 point margin or so should worry the GOP more than the Dems -- especially in a seat like Georgia 6.
Remember, this election was a runoff due to no candidate getting 50% of the vote on April 18. On that day, Ossoff got 48.12% of the vote. Handel received 19.77% among 18 people on the ballot. of those, 5 were Democrats, 2 were independent and the rest Republican.
Less than 2 percentage points would have ended the race. In the April election, 192,569 people voted. Last night, 259,488* people voted. Getting out and voting matters. The latest result?
Handel: 51.9%
Jon Ossoff: 48.1%
That is nothing to be ashamed of. The Ossoff race brought thousands of people onto the voter rolls and into the political process. We keep those people mobilized and bring others into the party -- we will win. It's the long game. That how the GOP does it and it is time for us to play it. Now is not the time to give up.
We came closer than we ever should have in a district no one ever thought would be flipped. I am looking forward to 2018.
and Raine
(*Current totals may change)
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
wickedpam on 06/21/2017 13:09:38
wickedpam on 06/21/2017 13:09:38
Morning 
Can't say I'm not somewhat disappointed, but yeah within 7 months GA Dems moved a 23 point win for Tom Price to a 5 point win. If I were in the GOP that would worry me. Thankfully I am not in the GOP (I have a soul)
Oh, is it a bad that I have the urge to throat poke people who say "Democrats won't win if they don't learn a lesson."?
Can't say I'm not somewhat disappointed, but yeah within 7 months GA Dems moved a 23 point win for Tom Price to a 5 point win. If I were in the GOP that would worry me. Thankfully I am not in the GOP (I have a soul)
Oh, is it a bad that I have the urge to throat poke people who say "Democrats won't win if they don't learn a lesson."?
Comment by 
Raine on 06/21/2017 13:22:21
Not bad at all. it was why I wrote the piece today.
I am over the berniebots.
Raine on 06/21/2017 13:22:21
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning
Can't say I'm not somewhat disappointed, but yeah within 7 months GA Dems moved a 23 point win for Tom Price to a 5 point win. If I were in the GOP that would worry me. Thankfully I am not in the GOP (I have a soul)
Oh, is it a bad that I have the urge to throat poke people who say "Democrats won't win if they don't learn a lesson."?
I am over the berniebots.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/21/2017 13:24:54
The bernie people now just make me angry - I just can't with them anymore.
wickedpam on 06/21/2017 13:24:54
Quote by Raine:Not bad at all. it was why I wrote the piece today.Quote by wickedpam:
Morning
Can't say I'm not somewhat disappointed, but yeah within 7 months GA Dems moved a 23 point win for Tom Price to a 5 point win. If I were in the GOP that would worry me. Thankfully I am not in the GOP (I have a soul)
Oh, is it a bad that I have the urge to throat poke people who say "Democrats won't win if they don't learn a lesson."?
I am over the berniebots.
The bernie people now just make me angry - I just can't with them anymore.
Comment by 
BobR on 06/21/2017 13:46:00
They are claiming a "centrist" can't win, as if a progressive would have done better. I need to look at the politics of the others in that race (including the INDEPENDENTS, who the Bernistas seem to think are the future).
BobR on 06/21/2017 13:46:00
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Not bad at all. it was why I wrote the piece today.Quote by wickedpam:
Morning
Can't say I'm not somewhat disappointed, but yeah within 7 months GA Dems moved a 23 point win for Tom Price to a 5 point win. If I were in the GOP that would worry me. Thankfully I am not in the GOP (I have a soul)
Oh, is it a bad that I have the urge to throat poke people who say "Democrats won't win if they don't learn a lesson."?
I am over the berniebots.
The bernie people now just make me angry - I just can't with them anymore.
They are claiming a "centrist" can't win, as if a progressive would have done better. I need to look at the politics of the others in that race (including the INDEPENDENTS, who the Bernistas seem to think are the future).
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 06/21/2017 13:50:30
trojanrabbit on 06/21/2017 13:50:30
Good morning
[entering Eeyore mode]
Lots of close losses mean little, they are still losses,
[leaving Eeyore mode]
She only has the seat for a little more than a year, it's almost time to start defending it and the R's won't be able to throw 10's of millions at it. Same with all the other "single" races. Mueller will be a bit further along in his investigations by then.
But I will keep saying this, McTurtleTraitor is FAR MORE DANGEROUS than 45 or Pence or whatever is in the chain of succession. If whatever takes them down doesn't take him down as well.....well....we're still royally farked.
[entering Eeyore mode]
Lots of close losses mean little, they are still losses,
[leaving Eeyore mode]
She only has the seat for a little more than a year, it's almost time to start defending it and the R's won't be able to throw 10's of millions at it. Same with all the other "single" races. Mueller will be a bit further along in his investigations by then.
But I will keep saying this, McTurtleTraitor is FAR MORE DANGEROUS than 45 or Pence or whatever is in the chain of succession. If whatever takes them down doesn't take him down as well.....well....we're still royally farked.
Comment by Raine on 06/21/2017 14:00:48
.
Raine on 06/21/2017 14:00:48
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Good morning
[entering Eeyore mode]
Lots of close losses mean little, they are still losses,
[leaving Eeyore mode]
She only has the seat for a little more than a year, it's almost time to start defending it and the R's won't be able to throw 10's of millions at it. Same with all the other "single" races. Mueller will be a bit further along in his investigations by then.
But I will keep saying this, McTurtleTraitor is FAR MORE DANGEROUS than 45 or Pence or whatever is in the chain of succession. If whatever takes them down doesn't take him down as well.....well....we're still royally farked.
Comment by 
Scoopster on 06/21/2017 14:01:28
Scoopster on 06/21/2017 14:01:28
Mornin' all.. 
I'm annoyed. How can people continue to support this madness? ARE THEY EVEN FUCKING PAYING ATTENTION?!
I'm annoyed. How can people continue to support this madness? ARE THEY EVEN FUCKING PAYING ATTENTION?!
Comment by Scoopster on 06/21/2017 14:07:45
Scoopster on 06/21/2017 14:07:45
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:13:13
Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:13:13
Good morning, bloggers!!!
I hope that everyone is well.
I think that Handel may find that the demographics of the district are going against her. Here are some thoughts from Josh Marshall of Talking Point Memo has some thoughts on the election results.
I hope that everyone is well.
I think that Handel may find that the demographics of the district are going against her. Here are some thoughts from Josh Marshall of Talking Point Memo has some thoughts on the election results.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:13:37
Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:13:37
In some good news, I have a local interview tomorrow for a 6th grade English teacher job.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:21:24
Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:21:24
I don't think that a progressive can win in every district. However, I think that the Democratic Party needs to be more progressive. We also need to make sure that the Democrats are not seen as the party of Wall Street, which Trump ironically used as a claim during the presidential election. The role of big money in our elections is troubling. In Illinois, J.B. Pritzker is a leading contender for the Democratic nomination for governor as he has enough wealth to counter Republican billionaire Bruce Rauner.
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 06/21/2017 14:32:20
Mondobubba on 06/21/2017 14:32:20
If I recall from a news report on the NPR mosheen yesterday, Trump barely won that district. It was like, by one maybe two points?
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:35:46
Josh Marshall, in the linked article in my earlier post, said that Trump won 48 percent of the vote there, less than two percentage points above Clinton.
Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:35:46
Quote by Mondobubba:
If I recall from a news report on the NPR mosheen yesterday, Trump barely won that district. It was like, by one maybe two points?
Josh Marshall, in the linked article in my earlier post, said that Trump won 48 percent of the vote there, less than two percentage points above Clinton.
Comment by BobR on 06/21/2017 14:36:41
I think the Dem party is plenty progressive as a whole (individual candidates will vary, based on the district/state in which they are running). In what ways do you think they are missing the boat?
BobR on 06/21/2017 14:36:41
Quote by Will in Chicago:
I don't think that a progressive can win in every district. However, I think that the Democratic Party needs to be more progressive. We also need to make sure that the Democrats are not seen as the party of Wall Street, which Trump ironically used as a claim during the presidential election. The role of big money in our elections is troubling. In Illinois, J.B. Pritzker is a leading contender for the Democratic nomination for governor as he has enough wealth to counter Republican billionaire Bruce Rauner.
I think the Dem party is plenty progressive as a whole (individual candidates will vary, based on the district/state in which they are running). In what ways do you think they are missing the boat?
Comment by Scoopster on 06/21/2017 14:46:33
Scoopster on 06/21/2017 14:46:33
Just heard that voter turnout in GA-6 was AGAIN SEVERAL POINTS UNDER 50%.
The attention on this special election was through the roof. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE NOT VOTE?!
The attention on this special election was through the roof. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE NOT VOTE?!
Comment by BobR on 06/21/2017 14:52:57
Just curious - does the number reflect people ELIGIBLE to vote or people REGISTERED to vote? Always wondered about that.
BobR on 06/21/2017 14:52:57
Quote by Scoopster:
Just heard that voter turnout in GA-6 was AGAIN SEVERAL POINTS UNDER 50%.
The attention on this special election was through the roof. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE NOT VOTE?!
Just curious - does the number reflect people ELIGIBLE to vote or people REGISTERED to vote? Always wondered about that.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:54:48
I think that party is majority progressive. I think that the party as a whole should support single payer healthcare or at least a public option, assuming that we can save the ACA from Trump and Ryan. I think that we have to do more to address the issues of income inequality. There are many places where people are seeing their lives being less hopeful than they expected. This is breeding apathy. I know many people who have given up on politics. They see both major parties as corrupt and in the hands of the wealthy. Trump played this card very well last time, despite the fact that he has screwed over many small business people and their workers. (I am enough of a realist to admit that money speaks, but now it is drowning the voices of a lot of people out. Also, I realize that not every district is going to elect an Elizabeth Warren, a Bernie Sanders, or a like-minded person.)
If the majority of Americans voted, I think that we could have more progressive policies enacted by legislators who look to the New Deal and the Great Society for inspiration, not the Gilded Age and Ayn Rand. Similarly, I think that too many candidates rely too heavily on their advisors. (In retrospect, I think that Hillary Clinton would have been better served at the end of the campaign focusing more on how Trump will likely screw up the economy than him being a sexist, racist pig. (I apologize to pigs in comparing them with Trump.) Matt Taibbi had a good article in April on a book where two members of Clinton's team point out a lot of flaws in her campaign.)
Some of Bernie's supporters are to blame for not showing up in November. However, the animosity is not one-sided as I see people on Facebook essentially call Bernie and his supporters Russian dupes or traitors. I think that the Democrats need to take a hard look at themselves as a party and answer the question as to who we are and how do we win over more voters.
Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:54:48
Quote by BobR:Quote by Will in Chicago:
I don't think that a progressive can win in every district. However, I think that the Democratic Party needs to be more progressive. We also need to make sure that the Democrats are not seen as the party of Wall Street, which Trump ironically used as a claim during the presidential election. The role of big money in our elections is troubling. In Illinois, J.B. Pritzker is a leading contender for the Democratic nomination for governor as he has enough wealth to counter Republican billionaire Bruce Rauner.
I think the Dem party is plenty progressive as a whole (individual candidates will vary, based on the district/state in which they are running). In what ways do you think they are missing the boat?
I think that party is majority progressive. I think that the party as a whole should support single payer healthcare or at least a public option, assuming that we can save the ACA from Trump and Ryan. I think that we have to do more to address the issues of income inequality. There are many places where people are seeing their lives being less hopeful than they expected. This is breeding apathy. I know many people who have given up on politics. They see both major parties as corrupt and in the hands of the wealthy. Trump played this card very well last time, despite the fact that he has screwed over many small business people and their workers. (I am enough of a realist to admit that money speaks, but now it is drowning the voices of a lot of people out. Also, I realize that not every district is going to elect an Elizabeth Warren, a Bernie Sanders, or a like-minded person.)
If the majority of Americans voted, I think that we could have more progressive policies enacted by legislators who look to the New Deal and the Great Society for inspiration, not the Gilded Age and Ayn Rand. Similarly, I think that too many candidates rely too heavily on their advisors. (In retrospect, I think that Hillary Clinton would have been better served at the end of the campaign focusing more on how Trump will likely screw up the economy than him being a sexist, racist pig. (I apologize to pigs in comparing them with Trump.) Matt Taibbi had a good article in April on a book where two members of Clinton's team point out a lot of flaws in her campaign.)
Some of Bernie's supporters are to blame for not showing up in November. However, the animosity is not one-sided as I see people on Facebook essentially call Bernie and his supporters Russian dupes or traitors. I think that the Democrats need to take a hard look at themselves as a party and answer the question as to who we are and how do we win over more voters.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:55:30
Greg Palast was on Thom Hartmann recently saying that Handel purged a lot of voters.
Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 14:55:30
Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:
Just heard that voter turnout in GA-6 was AGAIN SEVERAL POINTS UNDER 50%.
The attention on this special election was through the roof. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE NOT VOTE?!
Just curious - does the number reflect people ELIGIBLE to vote or people REGISTERED to vote? Always wondered about that.
Greg Palast was on Thom Hartmann recently saying that Handel purged a lot of voters.
Comment by Scoopster on 06/21/2017 14:57:25
Yeah, when she was GA SoS she was all over it scrubbing hard.
Scoopster on 06/21/2017 14:57:25
Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:
Just heard that voter turnout in GA-6 was AGAIN SEVERAL POINTS UNDER 50%.
The attention on this special election was through the roof. WHY THE FUCK DO PEOPLE NOT VOTE?!
Just curious - does the number reflect people ELIGIBLE to vote or people REGISTERED to vote? Always wondered about that.
Greg Palast was on Thom Hartmann recently saying that Handel purged a lot of voters.
Yeah, when she was GA SoS she was all over it scrubbing hard.
Comment by BobR on 06/21/2017 15:04:59
The party DOES support single-payer and addressing income inequality. Have you looked at the 2016 Democratic Party Platform? Most of the myths about Dems being centrist are just that - myths. The reality is that a Dem candidate in a deep red state cannot win if he espouses the same positions as a candidate from a blue state. We used to be the "big tent" party. It seems the Bernistas have infected the conversation with purity tests, and assume all Dems from all parts of the country should march in lockstep. That is not - and should not - be the case.
I've seen so-called "progressives" say they just might vote for tRump in 2020 (assuming he's still in office) in an effort to "send a message" to "corporate Dems" (whatever THAT means). That is madness.
BobR on 06/21/2017 15:04:59
Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by BobR:Quote by Will in Chicago:
I don't think that a progressive can win in every district. However, I think that the Democratic Party needs to be more progressive. We also need to make sure that the Democrats are not seen as the party of Wall Street, which Trump ironically used as a claim during the presidential election. The role of big money in our elections is troubling. In Illinois, J.B. Pritzker is a leading contender for the Democratic nomination for governor as he has enough wealth to counter Republican billionaire Bruce Rauner.
I think the Dem party is plenty progressive as a whole (individual candidates will vary, based on the district/state in which they are running). In what ways do you think they are missing the boat?
I think that party is majority progressive. I think that the party as a whole should support single payer healthcare or at least a public option, assuming that we can save the ACA from Trump and Ryan. I think that we have to do more to address the issues of income inequality. There are many places where people are seeing their lives being less hopeful than they expected. This is breeding apathy. I know many people who have given up on politics. They see both major parties as corrupt and in the hands of the wealthy. Trump played this card very well last time, despite the fact that he has screwed over many small business people and their workers. (I am enough of a realist to admit that money speaks, but now it is drowning the voices of a lot of people out. Also, I realize that not every district is going to elect an Elizabeth Warren, a Bernie Sanders, or a like-minded person.)
If the majority of Americans voted, I think that we could have more progressive policies enacted by legislators who look to the New Deal and the Great Society for inspiration, not the Gilded Age and Ayn Rand. Similarly, I think that too many candidates rely too heavily on their advisors. (In retrospect, I think that Hillary Clinton would have been better served at the end of the campaign focusing more on how Trump will likely screw up the economy than him being a sexist, racist pig. (I apologize to pigs in comparing them with Trump.) Matt Taibbi had a good article in April on a book where two members of Clinton's team point out a lot of flaws in her campaign.)
Some of Bernie's supporters are to blame for not showing up in November. However, the animosity is not one-sided as I see people on Facebook essentially call Bernie and his supporters Russian dupes or traitors. I think that the Democrats need to take a hard look at themselves as a party and answer the question as to who we are and how do we win over more voters.
The party DOES support single-payer and addressing income inequality. Have you looked at the 2016 Democratic Party Platform? Most of the myths about Dems being centrist are just that - myths. The reality is that a Dem candidate in a deep red state cannot win if he espouses the same positions as a candidate from a blue state. We used to be the "big tent" party. It seems the Bernistas have infected the conversation with purity tests, and assume all Dems from all parts of the country should march in lockstep. That is not - and should not - be the case.
I've seen so-called "progressives" say they just might vote for tRump in 2020 (assuming he's still in office) in an effort to "send a message" to "corporate Dems" (whatever THAT means). That is madness.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 15:09:02
I have seen the platform, although I know that some Democratic politicians have opposed single payer.
I oppose purity tests on principle as that route can lead to madness, as we have seen in the GOP. Also, there are people who supported Bernie, such as myself, who do not want a purity test. I will put up with a Joe Manchin as he will support the Democrats on many issues and vote for Democratic leadership.
No one calling himself or herself a progressive should consider voting for Trump. There are irrational actors in both the Clinton and Bernie camps. I think that we have to admit that and move forward.
Will in Chicago on 06/21/2017 15:09:02
Quote by BobR:Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by BobR:Quote by Will in Chicago:
I don't think that a progressive can win in every district. However, I think that the Democratic Party needs to be more progressive. We also need to make sure that the Democrats are not seen as the party of Wall Street, which Trump ironically used as a claim during the presidential election. The role of big money in our elections is troubling. In Illinois, J.B. Pritzker is a leading contender for the Democratic nomination for governor as he has enough wealth to counter Republican billionaire Bruce Rauner.
I think the Dem party is plenty progressive as a whole (individual candidates will vary, based on the district/state in which they are running). In what ways do you think they are missing the boat?
I think that party is majority progressive. I think that the party as a whole should support single payer healthcare or at least a public option, assuming that we can save the ACA from Trump and Ryan. I think that we have to do more to address the issues of income inequality. There are many places where people are seeing their lives being less hopeful than they expected. This is breeding apathy. I know many people who have given up on politics. They see both major parties as corrupt and in the hands of the wealthy. Trump played this card very well last time, despite the fact that he has screwed over many small business people and their workers. (I am enough of a realist to admit that money speaks, but now it is drowning the voices of a lot of people out. Also, I realize that not every district is going to elect an Elizabeth Warren, a Bernie Sanders, or a like-minded person.)
If the majority of Americans voted, I think that we could have more progressive policies enacted by legislators who look to the New Deal and the Great Society for inspiration, not the Gilded Age and Ayn Rand. Similarly, I think that too many candidates rely too heavily on their advisors. (In retrospect, I think that Hillary Clinton would have been better served at the end of the campaign focusing more on how Trump will likely screw up the economy than him being a sexist, racist pig. (I apologize to pigs in comparing them with Trump.) Matt Taibbi had a good article in April on a book where two members of Clinton's team point out a lot of flaws in her campaign.)
Some of Bernie's supporters are to blame for not showing up in November. However, the animosity is not one-sided as I see people on Facebook essentially call Bernie and his supporters Russian dupes or traitors. I think that the Democrats need to take a hard look at themselves as a party and answer the question as to who we are and how do we win over more voters.
The party DOES support single-payer and income inequality. Have you looked at the 2016 Democratic Party Platform? Most of the myth about Dems being centrist are just that - myths. The reality is that a Dem candidate in a deep red state cannot win if he espouses the same positions as a candidate from a blue state. We used to be the "big tent" party. It seems the Bernistas have infected the conversation with purity tests, and assume all Dems from all parts of the country should march in lockstep. That is not - and should not - be the case.
I've seen so-called "progressives" say they just might vote for tRump in 2020 (assuming he's still in office) in an effort to "send a message" to "corporate Dems" (whatever THAT means). That is madness.
I have seen the platform, although I know that some Democratic politicians have opposed single payer.
I oppose purity tests on principle as that route can lead to madness, as we have seen in the GOP. Also, there are people who supported Bernie, such as myself, who do not want a purity test. I will put up with a Joe Manchin as he will support the Democrats on many issues and vote for Democratic leadership.
No one calling himself or herself a progressive should consider voting for Trump. There are irrational actors in both the Clinton and Bernie camps. I think that we have to admit that and move forward.
Comment by Scoopster on 06/21/2017 15:09:49
Gonna snip this because it's something I mention constantly - THE PARTY PLATFORM WAS WRITTEN BY BERNIE AND PEOPLE HE CHOSE. How in the world could anyone with proper knowledge of that fact and how the process works say that the platform wasn't progressive enough for his supporters? Oh right, because their problem with it is the party name.
I'm saying it. If there's people out there on the left who continue to ignore reality just like the Trumpards do, then FUCK THEM. They are not worth my goddamn time.
Scoopster on 06/21/2017 15:09:49
Quote by BobR:
The party DOES support single-payer and income inequality. Have you looked at the 2016 Democratic Party Platform? Most of the myth about Dems being centrist are just that - myths. The reality is that a Dem candidate in a deep red state cannot win if he espouses the same positions as a candidate from a blue state. We used to be the "big tent" party. It seems the Bernistas have infected the conversation with purity tests, and assume all Dems from all parts of the country should march in lockstep. That is not - and should not - be the case.
I've seen so-called "progressives" say they just might vote for tRump in 2020 (assuming he's still in office) in an effort to "send a message" to "corporate Dems" (whatever THAT means). That is madness.
Gonna snip this because it's something I mention constantly - THE PARTY PLATFORM WAS WRITTEN BY BERNIE AND PEOPLE HE CHOSE. How in the world could anyone with proper knowledge of that fact and how the process works say that the platform wasn't progressive enough for his supporters? Oh right, because their problem with it is the party name.
I'm saying it. If there's people out there on the left who continue to ignore reality just like the Trumpards do, then FUCK THEM. They are not worth my goddamn time.
Comment by Raine on 06/21/2017 15:14:31
Co-sign.
I would like them to bitch more about gerrymandering and election theft than who is the most pure.
I am tired of it.
Raine on 06/21/2017 15:14:31
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by BobR:
The party DOES support single-payer and income inequality. Have you looked at the 2016 Democratic Party Platform? Most of the myth about Dems being centrist are just that - myths. The reality is that a Dem candidate in a deep red state cannot win if he espouses the same positions as a candidate from a blue state. We used to be the "big tent" party. It seems the Bernistas have infected the conversation with purity tests, and assume all Dems from all parts of the country should march in lockstep. That is not - and should not - be the case.
I've seen so-called "progressives" say they just might vote for tRump in 2020 (assuming he's still in office) in an effort to "send a message" to "corporate Dems" (whatever THAT means). That is madness.
Gonna snip this because it's something I mention constantly - THE PARTY PLATFORM WAS WRITTEN BY BERNIE AND PEOPLE HE CHOSE. How in the world could anyone with proper knowledge of that fact and how the process works say that the platform wasn't progressive enough for his supporters? Oh right, because their problem with it is the party name.
I'm saying it. If there's people out there on the left who continue to ignore reality just like the Trumpards do, then FUCK THEM. They are not worth my goddamn time.
I would like them to bitch more about gerrymandering and election theft than who is the most pure.
I am tired of it.
Comment by wickedpam on 06/21/2017 15:15:18
First - what's wrong with being a centrist in a party that is liberal and progressive? I mean that's still pretty freaking liberal and progressive. I may lean left and grumble about the likes of Mark Warner but I'm not kicking him out of the party just cause I want him to be more liberal.
Second - I'm not lying when I say I am sick of the Berniebro's. I have a friend who attacks every time I post anything that is pro Hillary, pro Dem, or anything not liberal enough. And when I tell him to stop he yells that I'm anti-1st Amendment cause I won't let him spew all over my posts. I'm done. Bernie is not a Dem, he is an Independent who caucuses with Dems and that's fine. But he does not get to lead a party he has chosen not to be a part of.
Third - the whole "teach them a lesson" thing is hurting people!!!!!! Stop it!!!!!
wickedpam on 06/21/2017 15:15:18
Quote by BobR:Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by BobR:Quote by Will in Chicago:
I don't think that a progressive can win in every district. However, I think that the Democratic Party needs to be more progressive. We also need to make sure that the Democrats are not seen as the party of Wall Street, which Trump ironically used as a claim during the presidential election. The role of big money in our elections is troubling. In Illinois, J.B. Pritzker is a leading contender for the Democratic nomination for governor as he has enough wealth to counter Republican billionaire Bruce Rauner.
I think the Dem party is plenty progressive as a whole (individual candidates will vary, based on the district/state in which they are running). In what ways do you think they are missing the boat?
I think that party is majority progressive. I think that the party as a whole should support single payer healthcare or at least a public option, assuming that we can save the ACA from Trump and Ryan. I think that we have to do more to address the issues of income inequality. There are many places where people are seeing their lives being less hopeful than they expected. This is breeding apathy. I know many people who have given up on politics. They see both major parties as corrupt and in the hands of the wealthy. Trump played this card very well last time, despite the fact that he has screwed over many small business people and their workers. (I am enough of a realist to admit that money speaks, but now it is drowning the voices of a lot of people out. Also, I realize that not every district is going to elect an Elizabeth Warren, a Bernie Sanders, or a like-minded person.)
If the majority of Americans voted, I think that we could have more progressive policies enacted by legislators who look to the New Deal and the Great Society for inspiration, not the Gilded Age and Ayn Rand. Similarly, I think that too many candidates rely too heavily on their advisors. (In retrospect, I think that Hillary Clinton would have been better served at the end of the campaign focusing more on how Trump will likely screw up the economy than him being a sexist, racist pig. (I apologize to pigs in comparing them with Trump.) Matt Taibbi had a good article in April on a book where two members of Clinton's team point out a lot of flaws in her campaign.)
Some of Bernie's supporters are to blame for not showing up in November. However, the animosity is not one-sided as I see people on Facebook essentially call Bernie and his supporters Russian dupes or traitors. I think that the Democrats need to take a hard look at themselves as a party and answer the question as to who we are and how do we win over more voters.
The party DOES support single-payer and addressing income inequality. Have you looked at the 2016 Democratic Party Platform? Most of the myths about Dems being centrist are just that - myths. The reality is that a Dem candidate in a deep red state cannot win if he espouses the same positions as a candidate from a blue state. We used to be the "big tent" party. It seems the Bernistas have infected the conversation with purity tests, and assume all Dems from all parts of the country should march in lockstep. That is not - and should not - be the case.
I've seen so-called "progressives" say they just might vote for tRump in 2020 (assuming he's still in office) in an effort to "send a message" to "corporate Dems" (whatever THAT means). That is madness.
First - what's wrong with being a centrist in a party that is liberal and progressive? I mean that's still pretty freaking liberal and progressive. I may lean left and grumble about the likes of Mark Warner but I'm not kicking him out of the party just cause I want him to be more liberal.
Second - I'm not lying when I say I am sick of the Berniebro's. I have a friend who attacks every time I post anything that is pro Hillary, pro Dem, or anything not liberal enough. And when I tell him to stop he yells that I'm anti-1st Amendment cause I won't let him spew all over my posts. I'm done. Bernie is not a Dem, he is an Independent who caucuses with Dems and that's fine. But he does not get to lead a party he has chosen not to be a part of.
Third - the whole "teach them a lesson" thing is hurting people!!!!!! Stop it!!!!!
Comment by wickedpam on 06/21/2017 15:16:18
Amen
wickedpam on 06/21/2017 15:16:18
Quote by Raine:Co-sign.Quote by Scoopster:Quote by BobR:
The party DOES support single-payer and income inequality. Have you looked at the 2016 Democratic Party Platform? Most of the myth about Dems being centrist are just that - myths. The reality is that a Dem candidate in a deep red state cannot win if he espouses the same positions as a candidate from a blue state. We used to be the "big tent" party. It seems the Bernistas have infected the conversation with purity tests, and assume all Dems from all parts of the country should march in lockstep. That is not - and should not - be the case.
I've seen so-called "progressives" say they just might vote for tRump in 2020 (assuming he's still in office) in an effort to "send a message" to "corporate Dems" (whatever THAT means). That is madness.
Gonna snip this because it's something I mention constantly - THE PARTY PLATFORM WAS WRITTEN BY BERNIE AND PEOPLE HE CHOSE. How in the world could anyone with proper knowledge of that fact and how the process works say that the platform wasn't progressive enough for his supporters? Oh right, because their problem with it is the party name.
I'm saying it. If there's people out there on the left who continue to ignore reality just like the Trumpards do, then FUCK THEM. They are not worth my goddamn time.
I would like them to bitch more about gerrymandering and election theft than who is the most pure.
I am tired of it.
Amen
Comment by Raine on 06/21/2017 15:24:35
Raine on 06/21/2017 15:24:35
Here is the thing -- I'll get over McCain for unleashing the Palinistas-- which I believe played a big part in giving us Trump.
I am not sure I will get over Bernie unleashing the bernieBots either.
I am not sure I will get over Bernie unleashing the bernieBots either.
Comment by BobR on 06/21/2017 15:28:49
THAT (bolded) is the part they need to understand, and seemingly never do. Sanders could have run as the Green Party candidate, or any other party. Instead, he and his supporters tried to hijack the Dem party, then shit all over it when they weren't successful.
BobR on 06/21/2017 15:28:49
Quote by wickedpam:
First - what's wrong with being a centrist in a party that is liberal and progressive? I mean that's still pretty freaking liberal and progressive. I may lean left and grumble about the likes of Mark Warner but I'm not kicking him out of the party just cause I want him to be more liberal.
Second - I'm not lying when I say I am sick of the Berniebro's. I have a friend who attacks every time I post anything that is pro Hillary, pro Dem, or anything not liberal enough. And when I tell him to stop he yells that I'm anti-1st Amendment cause I won't let him spew all over my posts. I'm done. Bernie is not a Dem, he is an Independent who caucuses with Dems and that's fine. But he does not get to lead a party he has chosen not to be a part of.
Third - the whole "teach them a lesson" thing is hurting people!!!!!! Stop it!!!!!
THAT (bolded) is the part they need to understand, and seemingly never do. Sanders could have run as the Green Party candidate, or any other party. Instead, he and his supporters tried to hijack the Dem party, then shit all over it when they weren't successful.
Comment by Raine on 06/21/2017 15:45:53
Raine on 06/21/2017 15:45:53
Don't worry Alexandria, when an electric shopping cart is abandoned in the middle of the street-APD gets it outta there! pic.twitter.com/8Ycdc8y8CG
— Alexandria Police (@AlexandriaVAPD) June 20, 2017
Comment by wickedpam on 06/21/2017 15:55:51
Nice
wickedpam on 06/21/2017 15:55:51
Quote by Raine:
Don't worry Alexandria, when an electric shopping cart is abandoned in the middle of the street-APD gets it outta there! pic.twitter.com/8Ycdc8y8CG
— Alexandria Police (@AlexandriaVAPD) June 20, 2017
Nice
Comment by Raine on 06/21/2017 16:10:25
Raine on 06/21/2017 16:10:25
Comment by BobR on 06/21/2017 16:21:48
high-speed pursuit
BobR on 06/21/2017 16:21:48
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Don't worry Alexandria, when an electric shopping cart is abandoned in the middle of the street-APD gets it outta there! pic.twitter.com/8Ycdc8y8CG
— Alexandria Police (@AlexandriaVAPD) June 20, 2017
high-speed pursuit
Comment by 
TriSec on 06/21/2017 16:38:46
TriSec on 06/21/2017 16:38:46
Hi all. In my ancestral homeland for the penultimate time. Finalizing some paperwork on Mum's house. Moving some furniture Friday, then it is finished.
Comment by Scoopster on 06/21/2017 17:21:48
Scoopster on 06/21/2017 17:21:48
Comment by Raine on 06/21/2017 17:25:49
How are you feeling about it?
Raine on 06/21/2017 17:25:49
Quote by TriSec:
Hi all. In my ancestral homeland for the penultimate time. Finalizing some paperwork on Mum's house. Moving some furniture Friday, then it is finished.
How are you feeling about it?
Comment by Raine on 06/21/2017 17:27:55
Damn ii Have to admit that looks good.
Raine on 06/21/2017 17:27:55
Quote by Scoopster:
Oh my.. this place is amazing!
Thought it was DC metro from the location names heh
Damn ii Have to admit that looks good.
Comment by Scoopster on 06/21/2017 17:36:58
Scoopster on 06/21/2017 17:36:58
Sigh.. just had to cut off another idiot "friend" for his incessant Berniebro bullshit. He said without any proof that Ossoff was a corporate shill, and when I asked him what corporation he replied "the DNC".
Comment by Raine on 06/21/2017 17:40:01
I have a person bitching that the Dems haven't learned thier lesson -- when challenged she had NOTHING. (also, pretty damn proud that Milt Shook posted there!)
Raine on 06/21/2017 17:40:01
Quote by Scoopster:
Sigh.. just had to cut off another idiot "friend" for his incessant Berniebro bullshit. He said without any proof that Ossoff was a corporate shill, and when I asked him what corporation he replied "the DNC".
I have a person bitching that the Dems haven't learned thier lesson -- when challenged she had NOTHING. (also, pretty damn proud that Milt Shook posted there!)
Comment by Raine on 06/21/2017 18:47:58
IT's kinda nice to see I am not alone.
I mean, I know with you guys we are never alone -- But, well, you know what I mean.
Raine on 06/21/2017 18:47:58
Quote by Mondobubba:
Following on what the blog said.
IT's kinda nice to see I am not alone.
I mean, I know with you guys we are never alone -- But, well, you know what I mean.
Comment by Mondobubba on 06/21/2017 19:25:12
I was half-way thinking along the same line this morning. Your blog post brought into sharp focus.
Mondobubba on 06/21/2017 19:25:12
Quote by Raine:Quote by Mondobubba:
Following on what the blog said.
IT's kinda nice to see I am not alone.
I mean, I know with you guys we are never alone -- But, well, you know what I mean.
I was half-way thinking along the same line this morning. Your blog post brought into sharp focus.