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Ask a Vet
Author: TriSec    Date: 03/10/2009 10:50:00

Good Morning.

Today is our 2,183rd day in Iraq.

We'll start this morning as we always do, with the latest casualty figures from Iraq and Afghanistan, courtesy of Antiwar.com:

American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 4256
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 4117
Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03): 3795
Since Handover (6/29/04): 3398
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09): 27

Other Coalition Troops - Iraq: 318
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 661
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 434
Journalists - Iraq: 136
Contractor Deaths - Iraq: 1264

We find this morning's cost of war passing through:

$ 603, 540, 900, 000.00



Here at "Ask a Vet", we tend to focus almost exclusively on the War in Iraq. Often, even we overlook what's happening in Afghanistan and elsewhere around the world, as the magnitude of what we have done in the Middle East tends to dwarf everything else.

Today, I want to take a brief look at a group of persons that has been under-reported by everyone...the Iraqi civilian.

In every war since the beginning of time, there's two casualty lists; the soldiers that fight, and the civilians that suffer. Often, the non-military person simply 'gets in the way' and pays the ultimate price. Modern militaries are quite adept at something called "battlefield recovery", and the United States Marine Corps and the Israeli Army famously have a policy of leaving no one behind in times of war.



But what about the civilians? In Iraq, nobody is even sure how many have died. AntiWar.com *tries* to keep a running total, to whit:


We maintain a daily count based on news reports. It is not intended to be complete. There is no agency that keeps track of accurate numbers of Iraqis killed. JustForeignPolicy maintains a running estimate based on the Lancet study with the rate of increase derived from the Iraq Body Count.
(check the source; there's a couple of interesting links in the story)

The Boston Globe took a look at the issue as we approach the 6th anniversary of the war, coming up on March 19. So today, I present the article in its entirety.


BAGHDAD - In the evenings, women in black gather at Umm Fatin's house to remember the dead.

Each family in the four neighboring houses in Tahrir, a former Sunni insurgent stronghold in Baqubah, has lost loved ones to bombings or shootings. Yet these deaths and countless others have fallen under the radar of the Iraq war. Nobody keeps an accurate tally of Iraqis killed because nobody knows.

As the Iraq conflict approaches its sixth anniversary, the number of American troop deaths - more than 4,250 - has been meticulously logged by the US military. Yet analysts are no closer to knowing how many Iraqi civilians have been killed, and they acknowledge a credible death toll will probably never be recorded.

Advocates say it is important to keep trying to provide closure and pave the way for reconciliation, as the Americans withdraw and the Iraqi public begins looking forward amid a decline in violence. They also say lessons learned could prevent similar tragedies.

"Unfortunately, there will likely never be an accurate statistic of civilian loss in Iraq. But what's important now is to get this right in Afghanistan and future conflicts and to get appropriate help to all Iraqis who've suffered in this war," said Sarah Holewinski, executive director of the Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict.

Estimates of the number of Iraqis killed since the war started on March 20, 2003, range from nearly 91,000 to more than 600,000.

One study, considered the largest and most scientific so far, concluded that about 151,000 Iraqis died from violence in the first three years of the war. But that survey by the World Health Organization and the Iraqi government included combatant deaths and covered only the period through June 2006. The uncertainty range was in the tens of thousands.

Efforts to count civilian deaths have faced obstacles ranging from brutal violence that prevents on-the-ground reporting to a lack of expertise after the devastation of Iraqi institutions and the loss of records in the chaotic aftermath of the US invasion.

The Health Ministry itself was long accused of being infiltrated by Shi'ite militiamen who were behind some of the worst sectarian violence. International aid agencies and human rights monitors do not have complete tolls either because they largely pulled out after a spate of attacks in 2003.

What is left is anecdotal evidence, and that is plentiful. It is hard to find an Iraqi whose life has not been touched by the violence that pushed the country to the brink of civil war.

Baqubah, where Umm Fatin lives, was one of the main flash points in the battle against Al Qaeda in Iraq and Shi'ite extremists. The 45-year-old housewife, who asked to be identified only by her nickname, lost her husband and son-in-law in a car bombing in 2007.

"My sorrow is not only because I lost my husband, but for my poor daughter, who was left a widow with two young children to care for when she is only 18 years old," she said.

Her neighbor, Mohammed Aziz, remembers the day in 2006 when gunmen opened fire on his car, killing his wife and 6-year-old daughter, Noor.

Another neighbor and his two brothers were killed by Shi'ite militiamen who broke into his small spare parts store. His mother can sometimes be seen by the door calling for her sons as if they were still alive.

The fourth house used to be owned by Abdullah Hadid. He was killed by Shi'ite militiamen who stormed his barbershop in 2006, leaving his wife and four children to fend for themselves.

There are clues to the death toll, such as the number of people buried at the main Shi'ite cemetery in the holy city of Najaf. But even here, the deaths were limited to mostly Shi'ites and included natural as well as violent causes, so they cannot be considered definitive.

The director of the cemetery's statistics office, Amar al-Ithari, said the number of people buried there jumped from just over 32,000 in 2004 and 2005 to nearly 50,000 in 2006 and 54,000 in 2007. It fell to nearly 40,000 last year, as violence declined.

The problems facing efforts to collect data in Iraq have been compounded by a brutal insurgency that has prevented on-the-scene reporting through much of the war.

The US and Iraqi militaries also often challenge reports of damage from car bombings, kidnappings, and execution-style shootings, as well as US airstrikes when they suggest security failures. The Shi'ite-led government barred Iraq's Health Ministry from releasing figures in mid-2006 after reports began to show Iraqi civilians dying at a rate of about 100 a day in sectarian attacks.

Many deaths also are likely to go unreported, as families bury loved ones before sundown on the day of the death to comply with Muslim tradition.


So while President Obama starts the difficult process of getting our troops home, we should remember that the Iraqis already *are* home....and they'll be living with the consequences of our actions for a long time. It would be well for us to remember that WWII ended in 1945; by most accounts Europe and Japan didn't truly emerge from their post-war difficulties until the mid-fifties, a decade later. There's still a long road ahead, no matter when the last American soldier finally leaves Iraq.


 

50 comments (Latest Comment: 03/11/2009 06:34:27 by livingonli)
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Comment by Random on 03/10/2009 12:20:53
Something to think about



Just something weird I saw.

Comment by wickedpam on 03/10/2009 12:33:10
Morning :hug:

Comment by Scoopster on 03/10/2009 12:45:24
Morning folks! :banana:



I imagine the only way to have some semblance of certainty on how many Iraqis have died in this stupid war is to conduct a census and compare it to any previous census records that Saddam's regime might have kept.



And wow.. Random that's one helluva link.

Comment by Random on 03/10/2009 13:20:31
Off topic: Anyone here watch Dexter?

Comment by Scoopster on 03/10/2009 13:21:21
Comment by Scoopster on 03/10/2009 13:26:18
Quote by Random:

Off topic: Anyone here watch Dexter?


Can't say that I do.. tho I am familiar somewhat with the plot.

Comment by wickedpam on 03/10/2009 13:28:34
Quote by Random:

Off topic: Anyone here watch Dexter?




on DVD - just finished the S2 epi - Dex and Lila get together and Dex tells whats-her-face-I want to call her Darla but that's not her name



Comment by Random on 03/10/2009 13:32:31
Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Random:

Off topic: Anyone here watch Dexter?




on DVD - just finished the S2 epi - Dex and Lila get together and Dex tells whats-her-face-I want to call her Darla but that's not her name





the show any good? I'm half way through the first book (which is quite enjoyable and interesting, especially being down near Miami). And Thinking about picking up the first season when I finish. Which at this rate will be noon, lol.

Comment by wickedpam on 03/10/2009 13:40:31
Quote by Random:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Random:

Off topic: Anyone here watch Dexter?




on DVD - just finished the S2 epi - Dex and Lila get together and Dex tells whats-her-face-I want to call her Darla but that's not her name





the show any good? I'm half way through the first book (which is quite enjoyable and interesting, especially being down near Miami). And Thinking about picking up the first season when I finish. Which at this rate will be noon, lol.






haven't read the books - took me like 2 shows to get into it, but once I did I really liked it :)



Don't have Showtime so I have to watch it via netflix dvd



Comment by Random on 03/10/2009 13:45:33
Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Random:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Random:

Off topic: Anyone here watch Dexter?




on DVD - just finished the S2 epi - Dex and Lila get together and Dex tells whats-her-face-I want to call her Darla but that's not her name





the show any good? I'm half way through the first book (which is quite enjoyable and interesting, especially being down near Miami). And Thinking about picking up the first season when I finish. Which at this rate will be noon, lol.






haven't read the books - took me like 2 shows to get into it, but once I did I really liked it :)



Don't have Showtime so I have to watch it via netflix dvd



I would recommend getting Darkling Dreaming Dexter.

And did you mean Deborah? the sister?



Comment by BobR on 03/10/2009 13:46:51
Thanks for the sobering reminder, Tri...

Comment by BobR on 03/10/2009 13:47:46
Quote by Random:

Something to think about



Just something weird I saw.


Just how the hell does a private citizen purchase depleted uranium??

Comment by wickedpam on 03/10/2009 13:55:10
Quote by Random:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Random:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Random:

Off topic: Anyone here watch Dexter?




on DVD - just finished the S2 epi - Dex and Lila get together and Dex tells whats-her-face-I want to call her Darla but that's not her name





the show any good? I'm half way through the first book (which is quite enjoyable and interesting, especially being down near Miami). And Thinking about picking up the first season when I finish. Which at this rate will be noon, lol.






haven't read the books - took me like 2 shows to get into it, but once I did I really liked it :)



Don't have Showtime so I have to watch it via netflix dvd



I would recommend getting Darkling Dreaming Dexter.

And did you mean Deborah? the sister?





no - the girlfriend who's name is completely escaping me



Comment by Random on 03/10/2009 14:05:52
Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Random:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Random:

Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by Random:

Off topic: Anyone here watch Dexter?




on DVD - just finished the S2 epi - Dex and Lila get together and Dex tells whats-her-face-I want to call her Darla but that's not her name





the show any good? I'm half way through the first book (which is quite enjoyable and interesting, especially being down near Miami). And Thinking about picking up the first season when I finish. Which at this rate will be noon, lol.






haven't read the books - took me like 2 shows to get into it, but once I did I really liked it :)



Don't have Showtime so I have to watch it via netflix dvd



I would recommend getting Darkling Dreaming Dexter.

And did you mean Deborah? the sister?





no - the girlfriend who's name is completely escaping me



Rita?



Comment by wickedpam on 03/10/2009 14:10:38
That it! Rita.

Comment by Raine on 03/10/2009 14:14:33
:coffee: good morning!

Comment by Raine on 03/10/2009 14:14:38
:coffee: good morning!

Comment by Random on 03/10/2009 14:16:14
That's good.

Comment by Scoopster on 03/10/2009 14:27:27
Morning Raine! :coffee2: Ooh coffee, don't mind if I do...

Comment by wickedpam on 03/10/2009 14:54:29
never trust anyone who talks baby talk normally

Comment by velveeta jones on 03/10/2009 15:14:16
Morning all.



Sham.... what? SHAMWOW..be-otch!



:LOL:





Comment by Raine on 03/10/2009 15:37:23
EFCA is being introduced today!

Comment by Raine on 03/10/2009 15:39:09
Comment by livingonli on 03/10/2009 15:57:10
Good morning everyone. I think my body is still adjusting to Daylight Savings Time.



A quick hit and run for now since I have to get to the Endocrinologist so I will talk more when I get back.

Comment by Scoopster on 03/10/2009 15:57:53
Quote by Raine:

EFCA is being introduced today!




Comment by wickedpam on 03/10/2009 15:59:15






Interesting, I keep hearing Suze Ormond saying this thing won't be over till 2015

Comment by clintster on 03/10/2009 16:02:38
Dow's up 309.





Comment by wickedpam on 03/10/2009 16:14:25
Thom they've been selling those things for years now

Comment by Random on 03/10/2009 16:33:41
Everyone knows Random listens on a time delay to stephanie, so he'd like to say, he's loving the idiot hate malers, especially the ones who have no idea what she said, but listened to some other asshole saying she wanted them all dead.

Too good.

Comment by Scoopster on 03/10/2009 16:34:50
Comment by Random on 03/10/2009 16:51:46
O.o Dori Munson (sp?) IS a guy!!!

Comment by TriSec on 03/10/2009 17:02:37
The trouble with collecting antique clocks is their maddening "tick-tick-tick-tick" signifying that we're pissing through our savings and I'm still not working.



I suppose I could sell them in a pinch, one is at least 100 years old and ought to fetch a handsome price.





Comment by TriSec on 03/10/2009 17:09:57
*snap*



MAINE! I FUCKING HATE THE STATE OF MAINE AND EVERYONE IN IT!





Comment by Scoopster on 03/10/2009 17:16:02
Quote by TriSec:

The trouble with collecting antique clocks is their maddening "tick-tick-tick-tick" signifying that we're pissing through our savings and I'm still not working.



I suppose I could sell them in a pinch, one is at least 100 years old and ought to fetch a handsome price.


I'll give you my landlord's boyfriend's cell #. :rofl:

Comment by starling310 on 03/10/2009 17:16:08
My weekly gush about how much I love Thom Hartmann.

:: gush ::



I hate when people conflate marriage with parenthood.

The 2 are mutually exclusive. Sorry.



Comment by starling310 on 03/10/2009 17:43:49
I don't like Ben.





Comment by TriSec on 03/10/2009 17:49:25
http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/artists/images/DukeEllington.jpg




OK, Mr. Ellington. Work your magic; I need it today.



:kickcan: <-- hopeless





Comment by livingonli on 03/10/2009 18:18:15
Quote by TriSec:

*snap*



MAINE! I FUCKING HATE THE STATE OF MAINE AND EVERYONE IN IT!





What did they do?

Comment by Raine on 03/10/2009 18:43:40
In case anyone has not seen it.



The Jon Stewart takedown of CNBC.







Comment by Raine on 03/10/2009 18:47:51
No there is only one kind of marriage. peerdidah.

Comment by livingonli on 03/10/2009 19:06:07
Time to head off to the salt mine.

Comment by Mondobubba on 03/10/2009 19:52:50
Quote by wickedpam:







Interesting, I keep hearing Suze Ormond saying this thing won't be over till 2015




Suze Ormond is well Suze Ormond. She has jackets!

Comment by Mondobubba on 03/10/2009 19:59:33




If you didn't see it last night. Lawton Smalls on Breakroom!

Comment by Mondobubba on 03/10/2009 19:59:34




If you didn't see it last night. Lawton Smalls on Breakroom!

Comment by Mondobubba on 03/10/2009 20:01:08
:mutters: Crazy assed lyeberry computer mosheens!

Comment by Mondobubba on 03/10/2009 20:15:21
Quote by BobR:

Quote by Random:

Something to think about



Just something weird I saw.


Just how the hell does a private citizen purchase depleted uranium??




Apparently it is pretty easy Bobber. From the Wikipedia entry:



U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission regulations at 10 CFR 40.25 establish a general license for the use of depleted uranium contained in industrial products or devices for mass-volume applications. This general license allows anyone to possess or use depleted uranium for authorized purposes. Generally, a registration form is required, along with a commitment to not abandon the material. Agreement states may have similar, or more stringent, regulations.



Sounds like it is actually pretty easy to get.



As to using DU in a dirty bomb. How many times do I, Mondo have to say this; DU is a weak alpha emitter. The bigger issue with it is that DU is a toxic heavy metal.





Here is the whole article from der Wikipedia. Somewhat unsettling in terms of toxicology.

Comment by Mondobubba on 03/11/2009 00:04:59
Me Obama when bitches slaps GOP talking points into next week.

Comment by Random on 03/11/2009 01:06:53
hm...Obama Jo mama nation...what the hell does that mean?

Comment by Will in Chicago on 03/11/2009 02:40:36
Excellent blog entry, TriSec!!



I am busy with a few things, and morning the loss of my local progressive talk station. Here is a little announcement that I am passing on.



Jeff Farias, Herb "Sarge" Phelps and Leonard Clark are organizing an event for progressives in the valley on Tuesday, March 17th at 6 PM.



Here is the location:



Baby Kay's Cajun Kitchen

Town & Country Plaza

20th and Camelback NE

Comment by livingonli on 03/11/2009 06:34:27
:Thud: