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No means No
Author: Raine
Date: 11/09/2009 13:46:11
After a rollicking Saturday, the House did something that had never been done in this country -- we passed a Health Care Reform bill. Velveeta wrote about it yesterday. The bill - while far from perfect - is simply historic.
It almost didn't happen. I can't blame the Republicans for that. We knew they would not vote for this, we knew it all along. Many of us also knew that the Blue Dogs were going to be a hard get (for votes). Personally, I knew that the Stupak amendment was going to be really hard to get this thru as well. It made me ill that women were sold down the river. Even with that, I still would have taken this bill. I believe that we can work these things out later. If it isn't, I - along with many other women in this nation - will be more than glad to remember that vote and keep my wallet shut next election day.
What I find myself thinking tho, is about one particular voter. It was that of Dennis Kucinich. He voted no because the bill didn't go far enough. He wanted Single Payer, and gave his reasons. History will only show that he voted Nay alongside Republicans (with one exception). I am not trying to bash the representative or even single him out, but I simple can't let go of the fact that he allowed the enemy of perfect to be good. There comes a time when principles mean little when you get nothing in return for them. Mr. Kucinich had previously stated that he would still vote no even if he was the deciding vote.
What good does it do anyone to vote on principle if it ignores the will of the majority of Americans? I like Dennis, but I don't think I want him fighting for my principles if it means his vote will further endanger them. No means no - and reasons don't matter to the history books. I wanted single payer too, but that was never going to happen, and had I been in the House, then yes: I would have had to hold my nose and vote yes. Once again, Dennis is by himself, voting against his constituency, in favor of his principles.
Being a progressive is a good thing, but it should not be the only thing when it comes to getting Health Care Reform in America. When ideology becomes more important than the needs of the country, well -- you might as well be a Republican. We need elected officials who can get the job done and not stand in the way, and Dennis is now in the way.
He did the work of the Republicans Saturday night. The teabaggers should be proud.
and 
Raine
It almost didn't happen. I can't blame the Republicans for that. We knew they would not vote for this, we knew it all along. Many of us also knew that the Blue Dogs were going to be a hard get (for votes). Personally, I knew that the Stupak amendment was going to be really hard to get this thru as well. It made me ill that women were sold down the river. Even with that, I still would have taken this bill. I believe that we can work these things out later. If it isn't, I - along with many other women in this nation - will be more than glad to remember that vote and keep my wallet shut next election day.
What I find myself thinking tho, is about one particular voter. It was that of Dennis Kucinich. He voted no because the bill didn't go far enough. He wanted Single Payer, and gave his reasons. History will only show that he voted Nay alongside Republicans (with one exception). I am not trying to bash the representative or even single him out, but I simple can't let go of the fact that he allowed the enemy of perfect to be good. There comes a time when principles mean little when you get nothing in return for them. Mr. Kucinich had previously stated that he would still vote no even if he was the deciding vote.
What good does it do anyone to vote on principle if it ignores the will of the majority of Americans? I like Dennis, but I don't think I want him fighting for my principles if it means his vote will further endanger them. No means no - and reasons don't matter to the history books. I wanted single payer too, but that was never going to happen, and had I been in the House, then yes: I would have had to hold my nose and vote yes. Once again, Dennis is by himself, voting against his constituency, in favor of his principles.
Being a progressive is a good thing, but it should not be the only thing when it comes to getting Health Care Reform in America. When ideology becomes more important than the needs of the country, well -- you might as well be a Republican. We need elected officials who can get the job done and not stand in the way, and Dennis is now in the way.
He did the work of the Republicans Saturday night. The teabaggers should be proud.
and Raine
Comments:
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Comment by 
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 13:54:00
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 13:54:00
Morning 
Why is it women are the ones who always have to suck it up and deal with it?
Why is it women are the ones who always have to suck it up and deal with it?
Comment by 
Raine on 11/09/2009 13:58:22
Someone forgot a little fact that we are not a minority.
We are over 51% of the American population and we are gay, straight and all the colors of the rainbow.
Raine on 11/09/2009 13:58:22
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning
Why is it women are the ones who always have to suck it up and deal with it?
We are over 51% of the American population and we are gay, straight and all the colors of the rainbow.
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 14:06:49
exactly, yet we are the ones always told to wait, children come first (for obvious reason) they the men butt in with everything they want and women get left till the end - which is dumb cause if they did it logically they the would group men and women together and cover everything equally and it would probably end up costing less. Right now we're paying a la carte instead of just what's on the menu
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 14:06:49
Quote by Raine:Someone forgot a little fact that we are not a minority.Quote by wickedpam:
Morning
Why is it women are the ones who always have to suck it up and deal with it?
We are over 51% of the American population and we are gay, straight and all the colors of the rainbow.
exactly, yet we are the ones always told to wait, children come first (for obvious reason) they the men butt in with everything they want and women get left till the end - which is dumb cause if they did it logically they the would group men and women together and cover everything equally and it would probably end up costing less. Right now we're paying a la carte instead of just what's on the menu
Comment by Raine on 11/09/2009 14:14:49
Raine on 11/09/2009 14:14:49
and I plan on writing about the blow to the Pro choice movement on Thursday, Mala. I am quite serious about making sure people understand that women are an awful lot of dollars in this country.
Comment by 
BobR on 11/09/2009 14:18:10
BobR on 11/09/2009 14:18:10
I agree about fighting on principle, until it gets in the way of getting things done. Like the presidential elections, you fight for your candidate during the primary, and then you vote for the winning candidate in the general, whether s/he was your first choice or not.
Dennis had his chance during the bill committee process, and his bill did not advance. It was time for him to suck it up, and take a step towards progress, instead of the giant leap he wanted. He blew it.
Dennis had his chance during the bill committee process, and his bill did not advance. It was time for him to suck it up, and take a step towards progress, instead of the giant leap he wanted. He blew it.
Comment by Raine on 11/09/2009 14:22:28
Raine on 11/09/2009 14:22:28
Why -- hello lovahboy!
Comment by BobR on 11/09/2009 14:27:13
BobR on 11/09/2009 14:27:13
Quote by Raine:
Why -- hello lovahboy!
Comment by Raine on 11/09/2009 14:34:05
What a nice boy like you doing in a place like this?
Raine on 11/09/2009 14:34:05
Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:
Why -- hello lovahboy!
Comment by BobR on 11/09/2009 14:37:01
Waiting for my training to start..
BobR on 11/09/2009 14:37:01
Quote by Raine:What a nice boy like you doing in a place like this?Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:
Why -- hello lovahboy!
Waiting for my training to start..
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 14:41:57
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 14:41:57
Get a room 
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 14:49:58
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 14:49:58
hmmm - so the caller wants to kill everyone who can't afford healthcare
Comment by 
Scoopster on 11/09/2009 14:53:07
Scoopster on 11/09/2009 14:53:07
Mornin' all.. another week 
Comment by Scoopster on 11/09/2009 14:57:28
Scoopster on 11/09/2009 14:57:28
Hey I gotta ask what the hell is the blowup recently with anti-union sentiment in political ads lately? Organized labor in this country is at its lowest point since probably before the Industrial Revolution, yet they're being painted as if they have some overwhelming influence?
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 15:00:27
haven't seen anti-union ads myself but I do get to see a bunch of ads sponsers by the Petromleum industry
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 15:00:27
Quote by Scoopster:
Hey I gotta ask what the hell is the blowup recently with anti-union sentiment in political ads lately? Organized labor in this country is at its lowest point since probably before the Industrial Revolution, yet they're being painted as if they have some overwhelming influence?
haven't seen anti-union ads myself but I do get to see a bunch of ads sponsers by the Petromleum industry
Comment by Scoopster on 11/09/2009 15:02:59
Well the ads aren't directly anti-union.. they're addressing other issues from health care to budgets to job creation, but they blame organized labor for the problem. It's really pissing me off.
Scoopster on 11/09/2009 15:02:59
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:
Hey I gotta ask what the hell is the blowup recently with anti-union sentiment in political ads lately? Organized labor in this country is at its lowest point since probably before the Industrial Revolution, yet they're being painted as if they have some overwhelming influence?
haven't seen anti-union ads myself but I do get to see a bunch of ads sponsers by the Petromleum industry
Well the ads aren't directly anti-union.. they're addressing other issues from health care to budgets to job creation, but they blame organized labor for the problem. It's really pissing me off.
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 15:29:55
I saw something similar but they were trying to get people to call an force a no on the healthcare vote
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 15:29:55
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:
Hey I gotta ask what the hell is the blowup recently with anti-union sentiment in political ads lately? Organized labor in this country is at its lowest point since probably before the Industrial Revolution, yet they're being painted as if they have some overwhelming influence?
haven't seen anti-union ads myself but I do get to see a bunch of ads sponsers by the Petromleum industry
Well the ads aren't directly anti-union.. they're addressing other issues from health care to budgets to job creation, but they blame organized labor for the problem. It's really pissing me off.
I saw something similar but they were trying to get people to call an force a no on the healthcare vote
Comment by BobR on 11/09/2009 16:52:57
BobR on 11/09/2009 16:52:57
short break in training - learning about how product and services pricing are set in the system.
Yay?...
Yay?...
Comment by 
livingonli on 11/09/2009 16:54:50
livingonli on 11/09/2009 16:54:50
Good morning everyone.
I know I've been MIA on the blog because last weekend I was doing the 50th Anniversary thing for my old college radio station. I wasn't even on facebook for a day and a half and that might be a record. It was good to see some people I haven't seen in years and catch up although there were still a few people who I friended on facebook who I thought might show up but didn't. I might have to sort of poke them and let them know I missed them.
I know I've been MIA on the blog because last weekend I was doing the 50th Anniversary thing for my old college radio station. I wasn't even on facebook for a day and a half and that might be a record. It was good to see some people I haven't seen in years and catch up although there were still a few people who I friended on facebook who I thought might show up but didn't. I might have to sort of poke them and let them know I missed them.
Comment by livingonli on 11/09/2009 16:55:56
livingonli on 11/09/2009 16:55:56
Oooh, BobR, sounds as much fun as losing your mind.
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 16:57:34
fascinating
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 16:57:34
Quote by BobR:
short break in training - learning about how product and services pricing are set in the system.
Yay?...
fascinating
Comment by BobR on 11/09/2009 16:57:39
I saw this last night - that's great!
BobR on 11/09/2009 16:57:39
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone.
I know I've been MIA on the blog because last weekend I was doing the 50th Anniversary thing for my old college radio station. I wasn't even on facebook for a day and a half and that might be a record. It was good to see some people I haven't seen in years and catch up although there were still a few people who I friended on facebook who I thought might show up but didn't. I might have to sort of poke them and let them know I missed them.
I saw this last night - that's great!
Comment by BobR on 11/09/2009 16:58:20
Intravenous coffee - stat!
BobR on 11/09/2009 16:58:20
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:
short break in training - learning about how product and services pricing are set in the system.
Yay?...
fascinating
Intravenous coffee - stat!
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 16:58:56
no worries
Its good for ya to get out and do something different
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 16:58:56
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone.
I know I've been MIA on the blog because last weekend I was doing the 50th Anniversary thing for my old college radio station. I wasn't even on facebook for a day and a half and that might be a record. It was good to see some people I haven't seen in years and catch up although there were still a few people who I friended on facebook who I thought might show up but didn't. I might have to sort of poke them and let them know I missed them.
no worries
Its good for ya to get out and do something different
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 16:59:47
I would beam ya some coffee but my cup is currently empty - now I must make some tea!
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 16:59:47
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:
short break in training - learning about how product and services pricing are set in the system.
Yay?...
fascinating
Intravenous coffee - stat!
I would beam ya some coffee but my cup is currently empty - now I must make some tea!
Comment by Raine on 11/09/2009 17:13:18
oof.
Raine on 11/09/2009 17:13:18
Quote by BobR:
short break in training - learning about how product and services pricing are set in the system.
Yay?...
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 17:13:59
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 17:13:59
why does Thom make me want to do this 
Comment by livingonli on 11/09/2009 17:21:16
livingonli on 11/09/2009 17:21:16
I'll be glad when I finally get my desktop into the house and I can listen to Thom live again.. Too bad he's not on a local station and only the first hour is live on satellite radio and I have to get my Sirius unit reactivated since I let it lapse over the hubub of the last few months.
Comment by Raine on 11/09/2009 17:21:29
On my way! 
I wish...
Raine on 11/09/2009 17:21:29
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:
short break in training - learning about how product and services pricing are set in the system.
Yay?...
fascinating
Intravenous coffee - stat!
I wish...
Comment by Raine on 11/09/2009 17:23:01
You know, what? If people like him didn't, we would get complacent.
Raine on 11/09/2009 17:23:01
Quote by wickedpam:
why does Thom make me want to do this
You know, what? If people like him didn't, we would get complacent.
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 17:29:33
True, but sometimes I like to get a foundation in which to build before it gets jackhammered up a dozen times.
I get frustrated fairly easily, if you couldn't tell
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 17:29:33
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
why does Thom make me want to do this
You know, what? If people like him didn't, we would get complacent.
True, but sometimes I like to get a foundation in which to build before it gets jackhammered up a dozen times.
I get frustrated fairly easily, if you couldn't tell
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 11/09/2009 17:55:28
Mondobubba on 11/09/2009 17:55:28
Hello my peeps. I am halfway to being A+ certified. I crushed my exam this morning. 
I am not a-fixin' to do some studying for the second part of the exam process. After that on, onto Net+ and then Security+. I'm kinda pumped.
I am not a-fixin' to do some studying for the second part of the exam process. After that on, onto Net+ and then Security+. I'm kinda pumped.
Comment by wickedpam on 11/09/2009 18:04:17
very nice!
wickedpam on 11/09/2009 18:04:17
Quote by Mondobubba:
Hello my peeps. I am halfway to being A+ certified. I crushed my exam this morning.
very nice!
Comment by Scoopster on 11/09/2009 18:55:53
Scoopster on 11/09/2009 18:55:53
Comment by Raine on 11/09/2009 19:23:40
Raine on 11/09/2009 19:23:40
Go on wicha bad self Mondo!!! 
Comment by Raine on 11/09/2009 19:27:14
Scoop, when you have time, you should read this. REALLY good read.
Raine on 11/09/2009 19:27:14
Quote by Scoopster:
Good riddance. We don't want your filth in our web searches anyways.
Scoop, when you have time, you should read this. REALLY good read.
Comment by livingonli on 11/09/2009 22:03:46
livingonli on 11/09/2009 22:03:46
I hope shit that like starts Fox News to slide into irrelevance so that only the birthers are watching it so it can really be called news for stupid people.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 11/09/2009 22:46:06
I am waiting for the NyQuil to kick in, spent most of the day yesterday in bed, but made it to work today. Feels like my noggin's gonna asplode.
trojanrabbit on 11/09/2009 22:46:06
I am waiting for the NyQuil to kick in, spent most of the day yesterday in bed, but made it to work today. Feels like my noggin's gonna asplode.
Comment by Raine on 11/09/2009 23:59:05
Raine on 11/09/2009 23:59:05
free beer to anyone who comes help me pack!
Comment by Mondobubba on 11/10/2009 00:14:07
Damn free beer? I'll be there in about 5 hours!
Mondobubba on 11/10/2009 00:14:07
Quote by Raine:
free beer to anyone who comes help me pack!
Damn free beer? I'll be there in about 5 hours!
Comment by livingonli on 11/10/2009 01:06:17
livingonli on 11/10/2009 01:06:17
I did catch Dennis Kucinich on Ed Schultz' radio show today while I was doing stuff outside. He was very critical of the bill saying that it was a give-in to the insurane companies and he made it sound like the legislation has so removed the public option and is just forcing everyone into health insurance although they seem to at least have a way of those with limited means would be able to buy in or they were get subsidized and that they didn't even push his option that would have at least allowed states the option of going single-payer. Listening to him, this health care reform bill sounds like a variation of the Romney forced health insurance law. Can either Tri or TR tell us how that's been working out for Massachussets since it only forces everyone to have health insurance in that state?
Comment by BobR on 11/10/2009 01:18:48
Livin! - your run-on sentences are killing me!
BobR on 11/10/2009 01:18:48
Quote by livingonli:
I did catch Dennis Kucinich on Ed Schultz' radio show today while I was doing stuff outside. He was very critical of the bill saying that it was a give-in to the insurane companies and he made it sound like the legislation has so removed the public option and is just forcing everyone into health insurance although they seem to at least have a way of those with limited means would be able to buy in or they were get subsidized and that they didn't even push his option that would have at least allowed states the option of going single-payer. Listening to him, this health care reform bill sounds like a variation of the Romney forced health insurance law. Can either Tri or TR tell us how that's been working out for Massachussets since it only forces everyone to have health insurance in that state?
Livin! - your run-on sentences are killing me!
Comment by livingonli on 11/10/2009 01:33:51
livingonli on 11/10/2009 01:33:51
That's what happens when I type while I am working.