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Peace, My Friends
Author: BobR
Date: 01/28/2011 12:50:33
There's been a lot of talk over the last year or so about the fissures in the Republican party. There seem to be the "mainstream" Republicans and the extremists, mostly represented by the Tea Party, but there are others claiming to be Libertarian. It's hard to draw explicit lines; I see it in my head as more of a Venn diagram.
It only makes sense that we would have similar fissures on the Left. In our case, we have Democrats, socialists, and firebaggers (as well as left-leaning Libertarians). I can't speak for those in the right-wing spectrum, but I feel like for the most part, we on the left all want the same things (in some cases with the government's role being more or less), yet it seems we have much more heated fights about them.
What do we want? Economic and social justice, a clean environment with renewable energy sources, a strong safety net, health care for all, and peace in the world with a reduced military presence and role (I'm sure I've missed a few things). I personally would like to see all things we consider essential to our modern society managed by the government (at some level), rather than for-profit companies. Water is generally already a government service. Why not electric, gas, internet, and waste management? Of course - this goes for healthcare as well.
Is that socialism? To the extent of those services, yes, but it's certainly not complete socialism in the government. That pretty much leaves everything else to private enterprise.
And yet - because I don't give much credence to X-Files-style government conspiracy theories, I am called a sheep and naive. Because I believe in celebrating the victories we get and those that help deliver them, rather than bitch about what we didn't get and demonize those that "compromise", I am a deemed a sell-out or a corporatist.
How has it gotten so ugly? How can anyone see all of the progress made over the last two years and say Obama is "just as bad" as the Republicans? Why are some people so angry when progress is moving in the right direction? Sure there's more to be done. Change isn't clean nor easy. But there's been change all right. I used to think these people were simply PUMAs, but I don't know anymore. I think there are those on the left that feel anything short of 100% on their litmus test equates to 0%. To them it's black or white, not shades of gray.
They talk of revolution, violent protests, and 3rd parties, but the only thing that's appropriate is the non-violent protests taught by Dr. King. There is no 3rd party that is going to become strong enough to win the power of the gavel in Congress. Violent revolution is antithesis to our desire for peace.
Tearing down the leaders who are moving us in the right direction because they are moving us slower than some people would like is not helping either. In fact, it's helping the opposition (the 2010 election results are proof of that).
There is much talk of Beck, Limbaugh, etc. inspiring nutjobs to take violent action. We implore those more moderate on the right to castigate and shun them, to no avail. But who inspires those on the left to lash out at our leaders and fellow liberals? People like Hamsher, Greenwald, et al are the ones fomenting discontent. Will we take our own advice and castigate and shun these firestarters? Sadly, I doubt it. Calling them out as the "professional Left" led to the same type of "closing of the wagons" that happens when someone accuses Beck of instigating violence.
We need to be better than that. We need to bring peace to our own house. We need to practice what we preach.
It only makes sense that we would have similar fissures on the Left. In our case, we have Democrats, socialists, and firebaggers (as well as left-leaning Libertarians). I can't speak for those in the right-wing spectrum, but I feel like for the most part, we on the left all want the same things (in some cases with the government's role being more or less), yet it seems we have much more heated fights about them.
What do we want? Economic and social justice, a clean environment with renewable energy sources, a strong safety net, health care for all, and peace in the world with a reduced military presence and role (I'm sure I've missed a few things). I personally would like to see all things we consider essential to our modern society managed by the government (at some level), rather than for-profit companies. Water is generally already a government service. Why not electric, gas, internet, and waste management? Of course - this goes for healthcare as well.
Is that socialism? To the extent of those services, yes, but it's certainly not complete socialism in the government. That pretty much leaves everything else to private enterprise.
And yet - because I don't give much credence to X-Files-style government conspiracy theories, I am called a sheep and naive. Because I believe in celebrating the victories we get and those that help deliver them, rather than bitch about what we didn't get and demonize those that "compromise", I am a deemed a sell-out or a corporatist.
How has it gotten so ugly? How can anyone see all of the progress made over the last two years and say Obama is "just as bad" as the Republicans? Why are some people so angry when progress is moving in the right direction? Sure there's more to be done. Change isn't clean nor easy. But there's been change all right. I used to think these people were simply PUMAs, but I don't know anymore. I think there are those on the left that feel anything short of 100% on their litmus test equates to 0%. To them it's black or white, not shades of gray.
They talk of revolution, violent protests, and 3rd parties, but the only thing that's appropriate is the non-violent protests taught by Dr. King. There is no 3rd party that is going to become strong enough to win the power of the gavel in Congress. Violent revolution is antithesis to our desire for peace.
Tearing down the leaders who are moving us in the right direction because they are moving us slower than some people would like is not helping either. In fact, it's helping the opposition (the 2010 election results are proof of that).
There is much talk of Beck, Limbaugh, etc. inspiring nutjobs to take violent action. We implore those more moderate on the right to castigate and shun them, to no avail. But who inspires those on the left to lash out at our leaders and fellow liberals? People like Hamsher, Greenwald, et al are the ones fomenting discontent. Will we take our own advice and castigate and shun these firestarters? Sadly, I doubt it. Calling them out as the "professional Left" led to the same type of "closing of the wagons" that happens when someone accuses Beck of instigating violence.
We need to be better than that. We need to bring peace to our own house. We need to practice what we preach.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
Raine on 01/28/2011 13:36:47
Raine on 01/28/2011 13:36:47
Amen, love. Amen.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 13:37:08
Good morning!
Raine on 01/28/2011 13:37:08
Good morning!
Comment by 
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 14:09:05
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 14:09:05
Morning 
Once again I want to say you guys are just the best
Once again I want to say you guys are just the best
Comment by 
BobR on 01/28/2011 14:21:55
BobR on 01/28/2011 14:21:55
Last day on the job today
first:
then:
first:
then:
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 14:36:03
Raine on 01/28/2011 14:36:03
AFA is funny, sometimes, this is one of those times....
Here is how the AP titled the article:
here is how they changed the title:
Here is how the AP titled the article:
here is how they changed the title:
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 14:49:09
Raine on 01/28/2011 14:49:09
Flurmageddon has BEGUN!
Comment by wickedpam on 01/28/2011 14:51:18
lol - I can't find but I've heard one of the local tv peeps refer to the Wednesday night rush as Carmageddon
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 14:51:18
Quote by Raine:
Flurmageddon has BEGUN!
lol - I can't find but I've heard one of the local tv peeps refer to the Wednesday night rush as Carmageddon
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 14:54:08
Raine on 01/28/2011 14:54:08
Momma should let john Rip on this dude.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 14:55:04
Yeas that was pretty awful. the commute really did suk.
Raine on 01/28/2011 14:55:04
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Flurmageddon has BEGUN!
lol - I can't find but I've heard one of the local tv peeps refer to the Wednesday night rush as Carmageddon
Yeas that was pretty awful. the commute really did suk.
Comment by 
Will in Chicago on 01/28/2011 14:55:12
Will in Chicago on 01/28/2011 14:55:12
Good morning, bloggers!! I hope that everyone is doing well.
I am busy, subbing and job hunting of late. I have more hope than I have had in a while.
I am concerned about what is going on in Egypt. Here is what I posted over at UNN --
Today marks a new day of protests in Egypt, amid reports that the government is limiting internet access to prevent communication among protesters. My hope is that Egypt will emerge with a more democratic government, but I fear that we will see the sort of violence and repression that we saw in Iran.
Here are some details from Al Jazeera:
There are also anti-government rallies in Yemen and Jordan
I hope that democracy wins out in the Middle East.
I am busy, subbing and job hunting of late. I have more hope than I have had in a while.
I am concerned about what is going on in Egypt. Here is what I posted over at UNN --
Today marks a new day of protests in Egypt, amid reports that the government is limiting internet access to prevent communication among protesters. My hope is that Egypt will emerge with a more democratic government, but I fear that we will see the sort of violence and repression that we saw in Iran.
Here are some details from Al Jazeera:
Fresh protests erupt in Egypt
Thousands stream out of mosques to protest against President Mubarak's 30-year rule, defying a government crackdown.
Protests have erupted in cities across Egypt, with demonstrators demanding an end to Hosni Mubarak's presidency.
Tens of thousands took to the streets across the country following Friday midday prayers.
Clashes between protesters and police erupted outside a mosque in Cairo. Protesters reportedly threw stones and dirt at the police after security forces confronted them. They held up posters saying "No to dictatorship" and stamped on posters of Mubarak.
Al Jazeera's Rawya Rageh, reporting from the Mediterranean port city of Alexandria, said protesters streamed out of mosques shortly after prayers to chant slogans against Mubarak. Police responded immediately, firing tear gas to disperse the crowd.
There are also anti-government rallies in Yemen and Jordan
I hope that democracy wins out in the Middle East.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 01/28/2011 14:56:33
Will in Chicago on 01/28/2011 14:56:33
Comment by wickedpam on 01/28/2011 15:05:44
I think most of our people didn't get home time some time after 10pm (the lates I heard was 3am) - in some cases our drivers didn't get but an hour of sleep which is scary
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 15:05:44
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Flurmageddon has BEGUN!
lol - I can't find but I've heard one of the local tv peeps refer to the Wednesday night rush as Carmageddon
Yeas that was pretty awful. the commute really did suk.
I think most of our people didn't get home time some time after 10pm (the lates I heard was 3am) - in some cases our drivers didn't get but an hour of sleep which is scary
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 15:05:52
Raine on 01/28/2011 15:05:52
Will!
Nice to see you, and SO happy to hear that you have been subbing!
I worry about what is happening in the middle east . I hope for democracy. I fear for those people.
Nice to see you, and SO happy to hear that you have been subbing!
I worry about what is happening in the middle east . I hope for democracy. I fear for those people.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 15:06:10
Raine on 01/28/2011 15:06:10
That is why I loved the blog so much today.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/28/2011 15:17:26
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 15:17:26
okay - I'll say it Gnomeo & Juliet looks cute
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 15:19:23
I had not heard about it until today...
Raine on 01/28/2011 15:19:23
Quote by wickedpam:
okay - I'll say it Gnomeo & Juliet looks cute
I had not heard about it until today...
Comment by wickedpam on 01/28/2011 15:23:06
its a cute animated movie - commericals actually make me laugh the way the Despicable Me ones did
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 15:23:06
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
okay - I'll say it Gnomeo & Juliet looks cute
I had not heard about it until today...
its a cute animated movie - commericals actually make me laugh the way the Despicable Me ones did
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 01/28/2011 15:35:28
trojanrabbit on 01/28/2011 15:35:28
Rushing to tie as many loose ends as possible before I leave work today. It's nice to be told that they don't know what they're going to do without me. I do feel really bad for those that are left. There's gonna be big changes, and not good ones I fear.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 15:39:22
Raine on 01/28/2011 15:39:22
I like Chelsea HAndlers Books.
I am not a big fan of her on the TV show,
I am not a big fan of her on the TV show,
Comment by wickedpam on 01/28/2011 15:39:36
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 15:39:36
I don't like either
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 15:40:03
Awww, Today is your last day too?
Raine on 01/28/2011 15:40:03
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Rushing to tie as many loose ends as possible before I leave work today. It's nice to be told that they don't know what they're going to do without me. I do feel really bad for those that are left. There's gonna be big changes, and not good ones I fear.
Awww, Today is your last day too?
Comment by 
Scoopster on 01/28/2011 15:40:36
Scoopster on 01/28/2011 15:40:36
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee! 
Well today started off great - slept all night long, straight thru, felt fully rested when I woke up for a change (which is a GOOD thing since I have untreated apnea), and got to the office without incident.
..then the screw fell out of my glasses, then Verizon re-appropriated $15 worth of minutes off my phone and into their profit column.
Well today started off great - slept all night long, straight thru, felt fully rested when I woke up for a change (which is a GOOD thing since I have untreated apnea), and got to the office without incident.
..then the screw fell out of my glasses, then Verizon re-appropriated $15 worth of minutes off my phone and into their profit column.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 01/28/2011 15:46:32
Yeah, got the word on Monday. Most of the contractors in the group got let go. So they've gone from 5 test techs down to 2, and the engineers are going to have to become test techs.
Oh well, one of our customers is very interested in bringing me on, so we'll see what happens.
trojanrabbit on 01/28/2011 15:46:32
Quote by Raine:Quote by trojanrabbit:
Rushing to tie as many loose ends as possible before I leave work today. It's nice to be told that they don't know what they're going to do without me. I do feel really bad for those that are left. There's gonna be big changes, and not good ones I fear.
Awww, Today is your last day too?
Yeah, got the word on Monday. Most of the contractors in the group got let go. So they've gone from 5 test techs down to 2, and the engineers are going to have to become test techs.
Oh well, one of our customers is very interested in bringing me on, so we'll see what happens.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 15:49:11
OY!
Raine on 01/28/2011 15:49:11
Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee!
Well today started off great - slept all night long, straight thru, felt fully rested when I woke up for a change (which is a GOOD thing since I have untreated apnea), and got to the office without incident.
..then the screw fell out of my glasses, then Verizon re-appropriated $15 worth of minutes off my phone and into their profit column.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 15:49:42
That is really good news. Fingers crossed, Rabbit.
Raine on 01/28/2011 15:49:42
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Oh well, one of our customers is very interested in bringing me on, so we'll see what happens.
Comment by Scoopster on 01/28/2011 15:58:15
Scoopster on 01/28/2011 15:58:15
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 16:05:11
Raine on 01/28/2011 16:05:11
ROFL! One of the local weathercasters made the DAily shows moment of Zen last night.
As is usually the case, Pat received a sandwich from a local business. His comments about that sandwich, though, would make most high school boys snicker. (They’d also probably prompt The Office’s Michael Scott to quip, “That’s what she said!â€)
We won’t tell you what he said. You’ll have to watch for yourself.
| The Daily Show With Jon Stewart | Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c | |||
| Moment of Zen - 15 Inches of Fun | ||||
| ||||
Comment by trojanrabbit on 01/28/2011 16:12:50
Sorry to hear BobR.
No for me, what little tolerance I had for alcohol is gone.
trojanrabbit on 01/28/2011 16:12:50
Quote by BobR:
Last day on the job today
first:
then:
Sorry to hear BobR.
No
for me, what little tolerance I had for alcohol is gone.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/28/2011 16:16:55
Oh I love Pat Collins! Last winter he had people stopping by bring him all sorts of food and hot drinks, he was eating every time they cut to him
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 16:16:55
Quote by Raine:
ROFL! One of the local weathercasters made the DAily shows moment of Zen last night.
As is usually the case, Pat received a sandwich from a local business. His comments about that sandwich, though, would make most high school boys snicker. (They’d also probably prompt The Office’s Michael Scott to quip, “That’s what she said!â€Â)
We won’t tell you what he said. You’ll have to watch for yourself.
The Daily Show With Jon Stewart Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c Moment of Zen - 15 Inches of Fun
Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor & Satire Blog The Daily Show on Facebook
Oh I love Pat Collins! Last winter he had people stopping by bring him all sorts of food and hot drinks, he was eating every time they cut to him
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 16:30:55
Naw -- it's all good, Rabbit, Bobber got a new job. Starts Monday.
He's leaving by choice. the is on his company dime as a goodbye.
Remember the days when you could leave a job for a better opportunity? Bobber is what I believe the beginning of returning to those days.
Raine on 01/28/2011 16:30:55
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Sorry to hear BobR.
No
He's leaving by choice. the
is on his company dime as a goodbye. Remember the days when you could leave a job for a better opportunity? Bobber is what I believe the beginning of returning to those days.
Comment by BobR on 01/28/2011 16:33:41
BobR on 01/28/2011 16:33:41
My desk is all packed up. Getting ready to head to lunch, then I am out of here for good.
Comment by wickedpam on 01/28/2011 16:37:37
at least Flurmageddon isn't sticking to the streets to spoil your last day
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 16:37:37
Quote by BobR:
My desk is all packed up. Getting ready to head to lunch, then I am out of here for good.
at least Flurmageddon isn't sticking to the streets to spoil your last day
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 16:39:46
Raine on 01/28/2011 16:39:46
Egypt is a mess. A really bad mess.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 16:40:57
Flurmageddon *giggle*
Raine on 01/28/2011 16:40:57
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:
My desk is all packed up. Getting ready to head to lunch, then I am out of here for good.
at least Flurmageddon isn't sticking to the streets to spoil your last day
Comment by wickedpam on 01/28/2011 16:44:45
your right - every things got a -mageddon after it these days
wickedpam on 01/28/2011 16:44:45
Quote by Raine:Flurmageddon *giggle*Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:
My desk is all packed up. Getting ready to head to lunch, then I am out of here for good.
at least Flurmageddon isn't sticking to the streets to spoil your last day
your right - every things got a -mageddon after it these days
Comment by 
livingonli on 01/28/2011 16:54:30
livingonli on 01/28/2011 16:54:30
Good morning folks.
I was sleepy again this morning. I wish I could get up so I could listen to all of Momma like I used to.
I was sleepy again this morning. I wish I could get up so I could listen to all of Momma like I used to.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 17:14:16
Raine on 01/28/2011 17:14:16
I blame this on Julian Assange.
I just did a quicky google search, and these are the first few headlines:
I believe that EVERY nation deserves to fight for it's democracy. I Am now wondering what the people in Egypt are fight for. The USA might need to be concerned. IS there a radicalization of Egypt going on, here?
I truly am just asking, because these headlines are not hopeful for Egypt, Israel or the USA.
I just did a quicky google search, and these are the first few headlines:
WikiLeaks Exposes New Egypt Docs Amid Protests. Will Anyone There ...
Jan 28, 2011 ... As Egyptian police fire tear gas canisters and rubber bullets at protestors in Cairo, WikiLeaks has been firing back with a stream of new ...
blogs.forbes.com/.../wikileaks-drops-new-egypt-revelations-amid-protests- will-anyone-there-see-them/
WikiLeaks cables show close US relationship with Egyptian ...
Jan 28, 2011 ... US embassy cable predicted Hosni Mubarak, if still alive in 2011, would run again for presidency 'and, inevitably, win'
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/.../wikileaks-cairo-cables-egypt-president
NYT: Wikileaks cables reveal details of US-Egypt diplomacy - Boing ...
NYT: Wikileaks cables reveal details of US-Egypt diplomacy · Xeni Jardin at 9:11 PM Thursday, Jan 27, 2011. RTXX5QN.jpg. US State Department cables leaked ...
www.boingboing.net/2011/01/27/nyt-wikileaks-cables.html
Wikileaks: Egypt still sees Israel as its main adversary
Dec 31, 2010 ... Leaked US diplomatic cable suggests that the Egyptian military is in decline; Egyptian general: "We don't want to do what suits Israel."
www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=201674 - Cached
WikiLeaks Files Threaten Egypt's Role as Neutral Mideast Mediator ...
Nov 30, 2010 ... Cairo has yet to respond to the U.S. diplomatic-document dump but Egyptian media did not ignore the news, except for most of the parts about ...
www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2033593,00.html
Wikileaks Egypt - WikiLeaks: Diplomatic cables show Egyptian ...
Nov 29, 2010 ... Often startling in their candid prose, confidential diplomatic cables from meetings between U.S. diplomats and Egyptian President Hosni ...
articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/29/.../la-fg-wikileaks-arabs-20101130 - Cached
Egypt's diplomacy exposed in latest WikiLeaks release | Al-Masry ...
Nov 29, 2010 ... Among 250000 classified US cables which began to be released on 28 November by online whistle-blower WikiLeaks are diplomatic messages that ...
www.almasryalyoum.com › Home › News › Top stories - Cached
Wikileaks and Egyptian President Mubarak
Nov 29, 2010 ... Newspaper "The Guardian" British several documents and diplomatic cables obtained from the U.S. site Wikileaks concerned the disclosure of ...
www.allvoices.com/.../7470261-wikileaks-and-egyptian-president-mubarak - Cached
BBC News - Wikileaks memo reveals Egypt's Nile fears over Sudan
Dec 3, 2010 ... A leaked US embassy cable reveals Egypt's fears that possible independence for Southern Sudan could threaten its access to the River Nile.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11913940 - Cached - Add to iGoogle
Wikileaks: Egypt's Military Focus is on 'Enemy' Israel - Defense ...
Dec 31, 2010 ... Leaked documents show U.S. frustration as Egyptian military focuses on Israel while neglecting struggle against terrorism.
www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/141460 - Cached
I believe that EVERY nation deserves to fight for it's democracy. I Am now wondering what the people in Egypt are fight for. The USA might need to be concerned. IS there a radicalization of Egypt going on, here?
I truly am just asking, because these headlines are not hopeful for Egypt, Israel or the USA.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 17:22:41
He's such a damn f*cking idiot.
You know, I want to find him. I want to offer my help for him in one of his stings.
I want to FILM him being a stupid fool. Asshole.
Raine on 01/28/2011 17:22:41
Quote by Scoopster:
The idiot savant is back on the prowl..
You know, I want to find him. I want to offer my help for him in one of his stings.
I want to FILM him being a stupid fool.
Asshole.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 17:24:19
Raine on 01/28/2011 17:24:19
Even better? I would LOVE LOVE LOVE someone to say they are pregnant with his child.
THAT would be awesome.
THAT would be awesome.
Comment by Scoopster on 01/28/2011 17:25:20
Scoopster on 01/28/2011 17:25:20
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 17:33:37
Raine on 01/28/2011 17:33:37
LOVE THAT! =))
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 17:36:17
Raine on 01/28/2011 17:36:17
So what do you think about this article? I have a few good friends saying that Joe is a scumbag and liar. I personally have have my own opinion.
I read this article AFTER I posted my litany of Egypt wiki links, BTW.
I read this article AFTER I posted my litany of Egypt wiki links, BTW.
Comment by livingonli on 01/28/2011 17:45:25
livingonli on 01/28/2011 17:45:25
Democracy Now and other news sources have mentioned that for years Mubarek has essentially made Egypt a client state for the US which is why we have often turned a blind eye to his human rights abuses and this is also why Bush rendered some people to Egypt for torture during his reign,
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 17:59:45
So would this not make Egypt Even more unstable and more vulnerable to Al quaeda forces? I understand about the US turning a blind eye. Don;t like it but understand what DN! is saying.
And I know about Egypt and Bush. SO... the question remains... WHY Egypt, Why NOW.
I guess what I am asking , is Egypt really pushing for MORE democracy or are they being reactionary?
We had/have a tenuous relation to Egypt. This doesn't seem to bode well. I'm not looking forward to a more insane country that we have to deal with again.
Am I making any sense here?
Raine on 01/28/2011 17:59:45
Quote by livingonli:
Democracy Now and other news sources have mentioned that for years Mubarek has essentially made Egypt a client state for the US which is why we have often turned a blind eye to his human rights abuses and this is also why Bush rendered some people to Egypt for torture during his reign,
And I know about Egypt and Bush. SO... the question remains... WHY Egypt, Why NOW.
I guess what I am asking , is Egypt really pushing for MORE democracy or are they being reactionary?
We had/have a tenuous relation to Egypt. This doesn't seem to bode well. I'm not looking forward to a more insane country that we have to deal with again.
Am I making any sense here?
Comment by livingonli on 01/28/2011 18:03:08
The biggest problem in the Middle East is when the reaction is towards regimes that the US has previously supported which were often dictatorships in their own right (ie Iran under the Shah) whether it was against Communism during the Cold War or against "terrorism" today. We really can't even say Islamic fundamentalism when you look at the Saudi royal family.
livingonli on 01/28/2011 18:03:08
Quote by Raine:So would this not make Egypt Even more unstable and more vulnerable to Al quaeda forces? I understand about the US turning a blind eye. Don;t like it but understand what DN! is saying.Quote by livingonli:
Democracy Now and other news sources have mentioned that for years Mubarek has essentially made Egypt a client state for the US which is why we have often turned a blind eye to his human rights abuses and this is also why Bush rendered some people to Egypt for torture during his reign,
And I know about Egypt and Bush. SO... the question remains... WHY Egypt, Why NOW.
I guess what I am asking , is Egypt really pushing for MORE democracy or are they being reactionary?
We had/have a tenuous relation to Egypt. This doesn't seem to bode well. I'm not looking forward to a more insane country that we have to deal with again.
Am I making any sense here?
The biggest problem in the Middle East is when the reaction is towards regimes that the US has previously supported which were often dictatorships in their own right (ie Iran under the Shah) whether it was against Communism during the Cold War or against "terrorism" today. We really can't even say Islamic fundamentalism when you look at the Saudi royal family.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 18:09:06
Raine on 01/28/2011 18:09:06
You realize we are screwed, here, right?
This is why I asked about the comments from Joe Biden. Liv, did you read the article? I'd really like your take on it.
This is why I asked about the comments from Joe Biden. Liv, did you read the article? I'd really like your take on it.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 18:17:17
Raine on 01/28/2011 18:17:17
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
This has been and will be a sensitive conversation. It seems as tho some would have us abandon Egyptian government in support of the protesters.
CAn we not support the protesters and try to get the government to come around?
This has been and will be a sensitive conversation. It seems as tho some would have us abandon Egyptian government in support of the protesters.
CAn we not support the protesters and try to get the government to come around?
Comment by livingonli on 01/28/2011 18:19:40
livingonli on 01/28/2011 18:19:40
I have to check the article out when I get a chance. I have to do 20 million things before I go to work today.
Comment by Raine on 01/28/2011 18:38:47
Raine on 01/28/2011 18:38:47
I'm frustrated. I was talking to my Mom about Bob's new job, and she kept asking me "if it didn't work out, can he return to his old job?"
I said to her about 3 times, he won't have to. She replied each time, 'yeah but you never know. In this area.... ' I had to remind her I don't live there. It reminded me of something out of a dickens novel.
GAH! I know that area. I know the state of shock this nation is in. NOW is a time to take chances. There is nothing wrong with looking.
Seriously, Bob and I moved to make things better for ourselves. I don't expect others to do the same, but I also don't expect them to do nothing in their neighborhoods either.
I guess I despise the attitude that 'you can't do anything, and when you do actually do something you should be afraid and get ready to get back in your place'.
I said to her about 3 times, he won't have to. She replied each time, 'yeah but you never know. In this area.... ' I had to remind her I don't live there. It reminded me of something out of a dickens novel.
GAH! I know that area. I know the state of shock this nation is in. NOW is a time to take chances. There is nothing wrong with looking.
Seriously, Bob and I moved to make things better for ourselves. I don't expect others to do the same, but I also don't expect them to do nothing in their neighborhoods either.
I guess I despise the attitude that 'you can't do anything, and when you do actually do something you should be afraid and get ready to get back in your place'.