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Safe Nuclear Power?
Author: BobR
Date: 2011-03-16 10:28:23
As often happens, a crisis reminds people of controversial topics that have fallen to the bottom of the pile due to other crises. When the BP oil gusher was filling the Gulf of Mexico with poison, the cries for getting off oil were resounding. But how? Wind and solar were once again proposed, "clean" coal was politely mentioned then tossed aside, and nuclear energy was considered as a stop-gap. Sure there's no carbon pollution, but what do you do with the waste? The earthquake and tsunami in Japan have reawoken the latent fear in Americans of the dangers of radioactivity.
Whither now nuclear energy?
While the disposal of nuclear waste will always be a point of contention, the safety of the reactor itself has always been the greater danger. They are essentially like a surfer, riding the crest of an atomic bomb, never going over the edge into nuclear annihilation. That is, unless some unforseen catastrophe occurs. That's why location is so important when they are built. Yes, they need to be near a water source, but they need to be in a stable place too. That's why it boggles the mind that the Japanese nuclear plant was built so close to a fault line.
Consider what happened though. From a thought-provoking comment provided to me second-hand:
Of course, that "state" includes three outer buildings exploding, and a fire threatening to release even more radiation than it already has. Yes, it could have been MUCH worse, but it would be quite a struggle to describe any of this as "safe".
What's interesting (and a little disturbing) is that for some time now it's been within the realm of possiblity to make nuclear energy MUCH safer. How? By using Thorium instead of Uranium-235. What makes thorium so much better than uranium? Consider this:
Here's how it would work in theory:
So why haven't we persued this sooner? The last item in the previous list above tells all, and is reiterated by none other than an oil industry site:
(bold-face mine)
So with a little research and proper funding, we could have an energy source that is plentiful here at home, does not pollute the air, will not have a core melt down, and does not produce nuclear waste. This could work.
Whither now nuclear energy?
While the disposal of nuclear waste will always be a point of contention, the safety of the reactor itself has always been the greater danger. They are essentially like a surfer, riding the crest of an atomic bomb, never going over the edge into nuclear annihilation. That is, unless some unforseen catastrophe occurs. That's why location is so important when they are built. Yes, they need to be near a water source, but they need to be in a stable place too. That's why it boggles the mind that the Japanese nuclear plant was built so close to a fault line.
Consider what happened though. From a thought-provoking comment provided to me second-hand:
... the current disaster should actually be considered to show how safe nuke plants are. The point being that it took a 9.0 earthquake, multiple aftershocks, a 25-foot tsunami, and days of power loss to cause the plant to be in the state it's in. Plus, the containment building still seems to be holding.
Of course, that "state" includes three outer buildings exploding, and a fire threatening to release even more radiation than it already has. Yes, it could have been MUCH worse, but it would be quite a struggle to describe any of this as "safe".
What's interesting (and a little disturbing) is that for some time now it's been within the realm of possiblity to make nuclear energy MUCH safer. How? By using Thorium instead of Uranium-235. What makes thorium so much better than uranium? Consider this:
- Add uranium, plutonium or any other radioactive 'actinide' metal into the mix and the thorium fuel process incinerates these elements.
- Thorium-fuelled nuclear power stations could not only generate power but also solve the thorny problem of disposing of existing nuclear waste
- Mining and refining thorium ore is simpler and cleaner than mining and refining uranium ore
- The thorium fuel process could also be used to manufacture fuel for conventional uranium-fuelled power stations, reducing the need for further uranium mining or plutonium manufacture (other than the plutonium the politicians believe they need for weapons)
- It is not possible to make weapons-grade materials from thorium
Here's how it would work in theory:
Rajendran Raja, a physicist at Fermilab — the U.S. Department of Energy’s Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Batavia, Illinois — said by telephone that the benefit of adding thorium to the fuel mix would be to create much more fuel using existing abundant resources and to reduce waste.
This could be done by building a high-intensity proton accelerator with the capacity to produce fast neutrons that could convert nuclear waste, thorium-232 and uranium-238 into fuel, he said. But to accomplish this, a proton accelerator would need to be 10 times more power-intense than anything that has been produced to date.
The concept of an accelerator-driven subcritical system, known as ADS, has been around since the 1990s. It differs from conventional reactors which operate at criticality, which is the point at which a nuclear reaction can be self-sustaining. But if a chain reaction gets out of control, accidents like those at Chernobyl could occur, and high levels of radioactive material could be released into the atmosphere.
Subcritical reactors, however, would use neutrons provided by the accelerator to continue the fission. This means that criticality could be avoided by switching off the accelerator, which in turn would switch off the neutrons.
So why haven't we persued this sooner? The last item in the previous list above tells all, and is reiterated by none other than an oil industry site:
Another thorium reactor opportunity is thorium consumes its own hazardous waste. It can even scavenge the plutonium left by uranium reactors, acting as an eco-cleaner. Kirk Sorensen, a former NASA rocket engineer, now chief nuclear technologist at Teledyne Brown Engineering, and closely watched Internet commentator and educator says, “It’s the Big One, once you start looking more closely, it blows your mind away. You can run civilization on thorium for hundreds of thousands of years, and it’s essentially free. You don’t have to deal with uranium cartels.” He’s right; thorium is so common that miners treat it as a nuisance, a radioactive by-product when they dig up rare earth metals. The U.S. and Australia are full of the stuff. So are the granite rocks of Cornwall in the UK. Some beaches in India are loaded with thorium. Not so much mining is needed: all thorium is potentially usable as fuel, compared to just 0.7% from uranium as much of the uranium has already decayed.
U.S. scientists knew in the late 1940s that thorium was a high potential fuel, but weapons priorities pushed uranium and plutonium to the front. Yet by the early 1970s thorium research had produced a highly workable, safe and low cost reactor design that the U.S. put on the shelf. Uranium industry competition with thorium won the struggle for research and development funding.
So with a little research and proper funding, we could have an energy source that is plentiful here at home, does not pollute the air, will not have a core melt down, and does not produce nuclear waste. This could work.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 12:50:48
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 12:50:48
Morning 
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 13:08:58
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 13:08:58
Congrats Steph and gang 
Comment by 
Scoopster on 03/16/2011 13:29:04
Scoopster on 03/16/2011 13:29:04
Mornin' all! 
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 03/16/2011 13:41:48
trojanrabbit on 03/16/2011 13:41:48
Yay Mama!!
Comment by 
Raine on 03/16/2011 13:44:54
Good Morning!
Raine on 03/16/2011 13:44:54
Good Morning!
Comment by Scoopster on 03/16/2011 13:45:20
Scoopster on 03/16/2011 13:45:20
RIP Nate Dogg.. 
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 13:51:38
Awww. What happened?
Raine on 03/16/2011 13:51:38
Quote by Scoopster:
RIP Nate Dogg..
Awww. What happened?
Comment by Scoopster on 03/16/2011 13:55:30
Says they're not sure, but he had suffered a pair of strokes before. He wasn't that old either.
Scoopster on 03/16/2011 13:55:30
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
RIP Nate Dogg..
Awww. What happened?
Says they're not sure, but he had suffered a pair of strokes before. He wasn't that old either.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 13:55:57
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 13:55:57
hey! stop knocking the geeks Hal, you are one of us you know 
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 14:01:32
Oh dear, I feel like a fool. I thought you were talking about the big Lab that your boss brings to the office.
That is still sad tho, I love the Chronic
Raine on 03/16/2011 14:01:32
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
RIP Nate Dogg..
Awww. What happened?
Says they're not sure, but he had suffered a pair of strokes before. He wasn't that old either.
Oh dear, I feel like a fool. I thought you were talking about the big Lab that your boss brings to the office.
That is still sad tho, I love the Chronic
Comment by 
TriSec on 03/16/2011 14:07:39
TriSec on 03/16/2011 14:07:39
Comrades.
Comment by Scoopster on 03/16/2011 14:07:41
Scoopster on 03/16/2011 14:07:41
Freedoooooooom!
Comment by 
BobR on 03/16/2011 14:10:38
So what did I miss?
BobR on 03/16/2011 14:10:38
Quote by wickedpam:
Congrats Steph and gang
So what did I miss?
Comment by BobR on 03/16/2011 14:11:35
BobR on 03/16/2011 14:11:35
Quote by Scoopster:
Freedoooooooom!
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 14:15:55
She was named Talkers MAgazine Woman of the year.
Raine on 03/16/2011 14:15:55
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
Congrats Steph and gang
So what did I miss?
She was named Talkers MAgazine Woman of the year.
Comment by BobR on 03/16/2011 14:30:39
Nice!
BobR on 03/16/2011 14:30:39
Quote by Raine:Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
Congrats Steph and gang
So what did I miss?
She was named Talkers MAgazine Woman of the year.
Nice!
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 14:43:43
Raine on 03/16/2011 14:43:43
Excellent Blog today, Bob. It pisses me off to no end that we have known about this use of Thorium since WWll -- and yet we shifted to uranium in order to weaponize the garbage.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 14:52:19
aawww - the slacker pup must have been repub and the stuck pup the lib, since he did all the work and the other one just watched, ran at the first chance and never looked back
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 14:52:19
Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:
Freedoooooooom!
aawww
- the slacker pup must have been repub and the stuck pup the lib, since he did all the work and the other one just watched, ran at the first chance and never looked back
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:11:09
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:11:09
I think that Thorium might be the Hemp of the alternative Nuclear energy.
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:13:25
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:13:25
Momma kills me every time she calls Croton-on-Hudson, Croton on the Hudson. 
Indian point has been a terrible point of contention for MANY years.
Indian point has been a terrible point of contention for MANY years.
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:15:36
What amazes me, is that we can convert many of these existing Nuclear plants to Thorium. It's akin to converting Diesel Engines to Vegetable oil.
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:15:36
Quote by Raine:
I think that Thorium might be the Hemp of the alternative Nuclear energy.
What amazes me, is that we can convert many of these existing Nuclear plants to Thorium. It's akin to converting Diesel Engines to Vegetable oil.
Comment by TriSec on 03/16/2011 15:16:59
TriSec on 03/16/2011 15:16:59
Plug 02452 into your favorite weather radar site. Ick.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:19:09
you heard Randi yesterday - its all about the corporations - there's no money in it for them
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:19:09
Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
I think that Thorium might be the Hemp of the alternative Nuclear energy.
What amazes me, is that we can convert many of these existing Nuclear plants to Thorium. It's akin to converting Diesel Engines to Vegetable oil.
you heard Randi yesterday - its all about the corporations - there's no money in it for them
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:20:33
Well there certainly would be if people had the will to say shut it down or convert.
I missed that, did she actually talk about thorium?
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:20:33
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
I think that Thorium might be the Hemp of the alternative Nuclear energy.
What amazes me, is that we can convert many of these existing Nuclear plants to Thorium. It's akin to converting Diesel Engines to Vegetable oil.
you heard Randi yesterday - its all about the corporations - there's no money in it for them
I missed that, did she actually talk about thorium?
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:23:07
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:23:07
This biggest issue I see is that Nuclear Energy -- like Fossil fuels, cannot be phased out without a viable source to replace it. We need energy.
Closing a plant down with a viable source for the region to obtain the energy it needs doesn't make sense. That is the danger.
Closing a plant down with a viable source for the region to obtain the energy it needs doesn't make sense. That is the danger.
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:24:52
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:24:52
Bob said it in the blog:
You cannot have a stop gap-- unless you have a future plan in place.
nuclear energy was considered as a stop-gap. Sure there's no carbon pollution, but what do you do with the waste? The earthquake and tsunami in Japan have reawoken the latent fear in Americans of the dangers of radioactivity.
You cannot have a stop gap-- unless you have a future plan in place.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:25:47
no she had a caller about bio-fuel who was brewing his own at home
yeah, that's what I don't get- why do they not see it as a potential moneymaker
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:25:47
Quote by Raine:Well there certainly would be if people had the will to say shut it down or convert.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by Raine:
I think that Thorium might be the Hemp of the alternative Nuclear energy.
What amazes me, is that we can convert many of these existing Nuclear plants to Thorium. It's akin to converting Diesel Engines to Vegetable oil.
you heard Randi yesterday - its all about the corporations - there's no money in it for them
I missed that, did she actually talk about thorium?
no she had a caller about bio-fuel who was brewing his own at home
yeah, that's what I don't get- why do they not see it as a potential moneymaker
Comment by Scoopster on 03/16/2011 15:31:14
Scoopster on 03/16/2011 15:31:14
Ok folks - it's bloggie project time!!
I want to cross-reference companies that manufacture & distribute potassium iodide against wealthy investors in the US and Canada.
Why you ask? This report in The Guardian explains it.
I want to cross-reference companies that manufacture & distribute potassium iodide against wealthy investors in the US and Canada.
Why you ask? This report in The Guardian explains it.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 03/16/2011 15:35:11
Looks pretty good for tomorrow.
trojanrabbit on 03/16/2011 15:35:11
Quote by TriSec:
Plug 02452 into your favorite weather radar site. Ick.
Looks pretty good for tomorrow.
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:37:00
OH! Yeah, I heard that dude. When he mentioned Archer Daniels midland, I had my suspicions, to be honest. He was talking about Ethanol, right?
I had my suspicions about him. He really sounded like he was reading. I Don't know.
I do agree that Corporations are a big issue. Until there is a market-- then there is no demand. Quite often it is government that helps to create demand.
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:37:00
Quote by wickedpam:
no she had a caller about bio-fuel who was brewing his own at home
yeah, that's what I don't get- why do they not see it as a potential moneymaker
I had my suspicions about him. He really sounded like he was reading. I Don't know.
I do agree that Corporations are a big issue. Until there is a market-- then there is no demand. Quite often it is government that helps to create demand.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 03/16/2011 15:37:48
Thought I heard someone tell Rachel Monday that the only way to ingest the radioactive iodine is through milk. So if you don't drink milk (or cook with it), you should be fine.
trojanrabbit on 03/16/2011 15:37:48
Quote by Scoopster:
Ok folks - it's bloggie project time!!
I want to cross-reference companies that manufacture & distribute potassium iodide against wealthy investors in the US and Canada.
Why you ask? This report in The Guardian explains it.
Thought I heard someone tell Rachel Monday that the only way to ingest the radioactive iodine is through milk. So if you don't drink milk (or cook with it), you should be fine.
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:39:11
PLUS that is going to require Farmers to grow COW corn and opposed to the sweet corn we eat.
Ethanol could be a stop gap -- but it's not a solution.
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:39:11
Quote by wickedpam:
no she had a caller about bio-fuel who was brewing his own at home
yeah, that's what I don't get- why do they not see it as a potential moneymaker
PLUS that is going to require Farmers to grow COW corn and opposed to the sweet corn we eat.
Ethanol could be a stop gap -- but it's not a solution.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:41:15
I thought he mentioned some book but I wasn't sure - I think it was ethanol. But are college kids from like MIT or something running stuff on french fry oil?
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:41:15
Quote by Raine:OH! Yeah, I heard that dude. When he mentioned Archer Daniels midland, I had my suspicions, to be honest. He was talking about Ethanol, right?Quote by wickedpam:
no she had a caller about bio-fuel who was brewing his own at home
yeah, that's what I don't get- why do they not see it as a potential moneymaker
I had my suspicions about him. He really sounded like he was reading. I Don't know.
I do agree that Corporations are a big issue. Until there is a market-- then there is no demand. Quite often it is government that helps to create demand.
I thought he mentioned some book but I wasn't sure - I think it was ethanol. But are college kids from like MIT or something running stuff on french fry oil?
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:42:31
true - there has to be a good combo to create something amazing for the future
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:42:31
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
no she had a caller about bio-fuel who was brewing his own at home
yeah, that's what I don't get- why do they not see it as a potential moneymaker
PLUS that is going to require Farmers to grow COW corn and opposed to the sweet corn we eat.
Ethanol could be a stop gap -- but it's not a solution.
true - there has to be a good combo to create something amazing for the future
Comment by Scoopster on 03/16/2011 15:42:37
That's true, especially since iodine-131 has a short half-life. I was trying to get at finding out who's profiteering from the sudden spike in KI2 tablets to the Japanese.
Scoopster on 03/16/2011 15:42:37
Quote by trojanrabbit:Quote by Scoopster:
Ok folks - it's bloggie project time!!
I want to cross-reference companies that manufacture & distribute potassium iodide against wealthy investors in the US and Canada.
Why you ask? This report in The Guardian explains it.
Thought I heard someone tell Rachel Monday that the only way to ingest the radioactive iodine is through milk. So if you don't drink milk (or cook with it), you should be fine.
That's true, especially since iodine-131 has a short half-life. I was trying to get at finding out who's profiteering from the sudden spike in KI2 tablets to the Japanese.
Comment by Scoopster on 03/16/2011 15:44:15
I say let's invent a bacon engine! Cook breakfast, then harness what's left of that wonderful grease to power your car on the way to work.
Oh wait.. then you wouldn't be able to cook the eggs in the grease. Damn!
Scoopster on 03/16/2011 15:44:15
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
no she had a caller about bio-fuel who was brewing his own at home
yeah, that's what I don't get- why do they not see it as a potential moneymaker
PLUS that is going to require Farmers to grow COW corn and opposed to the sweet corn we eat.
Ethanol could be a stop gap -- but it's not a solution.
true - there has to be a good combo to create something amazing for the future
I say let's invent a bacon engine! Cook breakfast, then harness what's left of that wonderful grease to power your car on the way to work.
Oh wait.. then you wouldn't be able to cook the eggs in the grease. Damn!
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:48:53
Scoop, go to Atlanta, They cook eggs in Bacon grease. (DELISH)
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:48:53
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
no she had a caller about bio-fuel who was brewing his own at home
yeah, that's what I don't get- why do they not see it as a potential moneymaker
PLUS that is going to require Farmers to grow COW corn and opposed to the sweet corn we eat.
Ethanol could be a stop gap -- but it's not a solution.
true - there has to be a good combo to create something amazing for the future
I say let's invent a bacon engine! Cook breakfast, then harness what's left of that wonderful grease to power your car on the way to work.
Oh wait.. then you wouldn't be able to cook the eggs in the grease. Damn!
Scoop, go to Atlanta, They cook eggs in Bacon grease. (DELISH)
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:49:52
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:49:52
You could strain the grease, no?
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:54:49
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:54:49
IF I am following this correct scoop: CHINA seems to be very common...
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/hydroxyzine-hydrochloride.html
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/hydroxyzine-hydrochloride.html
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:57:43
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 15:57:43
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 15:58:41
Raine on 03/16/2011 15:58:41
nevermind
Comment by TriSec on 03/16/2011 16:09:50
TriSec on 03/16/2011 16:09:50
Bacon grease is the absolute best thing for conditioning cast iron pans, too.
And did you hear about that kid in the midwest that has invented "man-cans"?
(yes, it's a bacon-scented candle. At long last!)
And did you hear about that kid in the midwest that has invented "man-cans"?
(yes, it's a bacon-scented candle. At long last!)
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 16:13:46
I saw that on the news last night - he worked in a soup kitchen to get the can then created all these guy-type candles - he's only 13. Pretty smart kid
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 16:13:46
Quote by TriSec:
Bacon grease is the absolute best thing for conditioning cast iron pans, too.
And did you hear about that kid in the midwest that has invented "man-cans"?
(yes, it's a bacon-scented candle. At long last!)
I saw that on the news last night - he worked in a soup kitchen to get the can then created all these guy-type candles - he's only 13. Pretty smart kid
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 16:29:39
Raine on 03/16/2011 16:29:39
Comment by 
livingonli on 03/16/2011 16:33:03
livingonli on 03/16/2011 16:33:03
Good day everyone. Another late night at the salt mine and the cat not wanting to let me go to sleep. I still feel like I need to recover.
Comment by TriSec on 03/16/2011 17:48:33
TriSec on 03/16/2011 17:48:33
Uncouth.
That's a good word for today.
That's a good word for today.
Comment by wickedpam on 03/16/2011 17:59:04
that's been a good word in my life for about a year now
wickedpam on 03/16/2011 17:59:04
Quote by TriSec:
Uncouth.
That's a good word for today.
that's been a good word in my life for about a year now
Comment by Raine on 03/16/2011 18:56:11
Aw damn, y'all.. "Uncout" don't mean shite till you see the FBI invay-de and take away yer chickens!
That is damn well some unseemly uncoup shite!
Oh. wait.
I did it again.
Raine on 03/16/2011 18:56:11
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:
Uncouth.
That's a good word for today.
that's been a good word in my life for about a year now
That is damn well some unseemly uncoup shite!
Oh. wait.
I did it again.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 03/16/2011 18:57:27
Cleo has decided that her latest favorite place to sleep is my side of the foot of the bed. So I either have to spread my legs apart or scrunch myself into the fetal position, because I'm #5 in the pecking order around here.
trojanrabbit on 03/16/2011 18:57:27
Quote by livingonli:
Good day everyone. Another late night at the salt mine and the cat not wanting to let me go to sleep. I still feel like I need to recover.
Cleo has decided that her latest favorite place to sleep is my side of the foot of the bed. So I either have to spread my legs apart or scrunch myself into the fetal position, because I'm #5 in the pecking order around here.
Comment by TriSec on 03/16/2011 19:06:26
TriSec on 03/16/2011 19:06:26
I usually try to add a new word to the reportoire every year.
"flaccid" had great success, but the years we chose "enumerate" and "plethora" were not well received.
"flaccid" had great success, but the years we chose "enumerate" and "plethora" were not well received.