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So, there's a deal.
Author: Raine
Date: 08/01/2011 12:41:50
I'm still processing this one, to be quite honest. I'm not sure I am in the mood to try to win people over this morning regarding the deal, because I just don't know enough about it.
I perused this quick face sheet from WaPo. You should too. I refuse to become part of the outrage brigade that I am seeing all over so many social networking sights.
I will remind people of this, with regard to a "Clean Debt Ceiling" vote (especially for those that wanted it) we actually had one back in May. We were told of this back in April. You can see that at that point, the White house released this information: FACT SHEET: The President's Framework for Shared Prosperity and Shared Fiscal Responsibility. I think it's important to compare it to the "Deal" that we are going to see voted on today: Fact Sheet: Bipartisan Debt Deal: A Win for the Economy and Budget Discipline -- and what is MOST important to me, is that there are NO Cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. In other words: The Ryan Budget deal appears to be dead. The agreement that is out there now, looks eerily similar to the one the White House sought. Considering there is a Republican majority in the House, I'm surprised the end result isn't far worse.
I refuse to defend Obama on this -- nor will I sit here in outrage over this deal. We avoided a total Economic Failure of our nation. Everyone in Congress used this crisis for political advantage, and it looks like no one gained anything; they are all tarnished for it. We maintained the status quo. It's not a win, but the alternative was far more dire.
I WILL say that I am sick of the U.S. Congress constantly putting America in a state of crisis. In addition, what we are witnessing is the result of all those people who stayed at home in 2010 who were just hell-bent on showing THEM! They did a helluva job. Thanks. FWIW - Elections Matter.
and 
Raine
I perused this quick face sheet from WaPo. You should too. I refuse to become part of the outrage brigade that I am seeing all over so many social networking sights.
I will remind people of this, with regard to a "Clean Debt Ceiling" vote (especially for those that wanted it) we actually had one back in May.
From the beginning, the Obama White House wanted a "clean" hike to the debt ceiling... in other words, an increase not tied to any substantial spending reforms or cuts.
That dream just died.
In a largely symbolic vote, the clean hike failed 318-97.
I refuse to defend Obama on this -- nor will I sit here in outrage over this deal. We avoided a total Economic Failure of our nation. Everyone in Congress used this crisis for political advantage, and it looks like no one gained anything; they are all tarnished for it. We maintained the status quo. It's not a win, but the alternative was far more dire.
I WILL say that I am sick of the U.S. Congress constantly putting America in a state of crisis. In addition, what we are witnessing is the result of all those people who stayed at home in 2010 who were just hell-bent on showing THEM! They did a helluva job. Thanks. FWIW - Elections Matter.
and Raine
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 12:50:48
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 12:50:48
Is it DC as a whole or the just the right portion of DC that is to blame? The standard operation since 1994 has seemed to me to be governing by manufactured crisis to manufactured crisis. I've seen some people dusting off the term limits chestnut. We have term limits in this country they are called elections. You are totally correct Raine, elections matter.
Comment by 
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 13:01:01
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 13:01:01
Morning 
I'm just worn out by the temper tantrum throwers
I'm just worn out by the temper tantrum throwers
Comment by 
TriSec on 08/01/2011 13:02:59
TriSec on 08/01/2011 13:02:59
"We have term limits in this country they are called elections."
I used to believe that, too. I'm not so sure anymore. It seems to me that the only way change comes to Congress is by death or scandal. But I don't know that term limits are the answer, either. There are arguments to be made on both sides. Does it work for the Presidency?
I used to believe that, too. I'm not so sure anymore. It seems to me that the only way change comes to Congress is by death or scandal. But I don't know that term limits are the answer, either. There are arguments to be made on both sides. Does it work for the Presidency?
Comment by 
Raine on 08/01/2011 13:05:13
I did edit that portion to make it more clear Mondo.
I have this wonderful editor here.
He knew I wrote that in a scoche bit of pissed offness.
Raine on 08/01/2011 13:05:13
Quote by Mondobubba:
Is it DC as a whole or the just the right portion of DC that is to blame? The standard operation since 1994 has seemed to me to be governing by manufactured crisis to manufactured crisis. I've seen some people dusting off the term limits chestnut. We have term limits in this country they are called elections. You are totally correct Raine, elections matter.
I have this wonderful editor here.
He knew I wrote that in a scoche bit of pissed offness.
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 13:07:54
I am not a fan of Congressional Term limits. There is something to be said about seniority and understand rules and by laws and procedures. -- all one has to do right now and look at all these asshat freshmen whop wouldn't know Senate/House rules and decorum if it bit them in the ass.
Imagine for a moment losing Representative John Lewis due to Term limits.
Or Teddy Kennedy. There is a wealth of knowlege with people like this, and we need them to TRY to educate the less senior among them.
Raine on 08/01/2011 13:07:54
Quote by TriSec:
"We have term limits in this country they are called elections."
I used to believe that, too. I'm not so sure anymore. It seems to me that the only way change comes to Congress is by death or scandal. But I don't know that term limits are the answer, either. There are arguments to be made on both sides. Does it work for the Presidency?
Imagine for a moment losing Representative John Lewis due to Term limits.
Or Teddy Kennedy. There is a wealth of knowlege with people like this, and we need them to TRY to educate the less senior among them.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 13:08:50
Elections combined with meaningful reform that takes the big money out of politics. I think when you remove the vast sums of money that are being shoveled into politics from groups outside of the state you get the distortions you see, Tri. Prop 8 in California and Mormons anyone?
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 13:08:50
Quote by TriSec:
"We have term limits in this country they are called elections."
I used to believe that, too. I'm not so sure anymore. It seems to me that the only way change comes to Congress is by death or scandal. But I don't know that term limits are the answer, either. There are arguments to be made on both sides. Does it work for the Presidency?
Elections combined with meaningful reform that takes the big money out of politics. I think when you remove the vast sums of money that are being shoveled into politics from groups outside of the state you get the distortions you see, Tri. Prop 8 in California and Mormons anyone?
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 13:10:36
That is the same arguement I try to make. With term limits you lose institutional memory. The legislators become captives of the professional staffers who have been around longer than the people they work for.
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 13:10:36
Quote by Raine:I am not a fan of Congressional Term limits. There is something to be said about seniority and understand rules and by laws and procedures. -- all one has to do right now and look at all these asshat freshmen whop wouldn't know Senate/House rules and decorum if it bit them in the ass.Quote by TriSec:
"We have term limits in this country they are called elections."
I used to believe that, too. I'm not so sure anymore. It seems to me that the only way change comes to Congress is by death or scandal. But I don't know that term limits are the answer, either. There are arguments to be made on both sides. Does it work for the Presidency?
Imagine for a moment losing Representative John Lewis due to Term limits.
Or Teddy Kennedy. There is a wealth of knowlege with people like this, and we need them to TRY to educate the less senior among them.
That is the same arguement I try to make. With term limits you lose institutional memory. The legislators become captives of the professional staffers who have been around longer than the people they work for.
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 13:11:57
That is what needs to happen.
I'm just disgusted. This deal isn't really a deal, this so called Super congress is a means to an end, I don't know if it is even legal -- but all it does is kick the sparkle pony can down the road.
In the end, we got the Debt ceiling raised, and that is all that I really give a shit about today.
Raine on 08/01/2011 13:11:57
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by TriSec:
"We have term limits in this country they are called elections."
I used to believe that, too. I'm not so sure anymore. It seems to me that the only way change comes to Congress is by death or scandal. But I don't know that term limits are the answer, either. There are arguments to be made on both sides. Does it work for the Presidency?
Elections combined with meaningful reform that takes the big money out of politics. I think when you remove the vast sums of money that are being shoveled into politics from groups outside of the state you get the distortions you see, Tri. Prop 8 in California and Mormons anyone?
I'm just disgusted. This deal isn't really a deal, this so called Super congress is a means to an end, I don't know if it is even legal -- but all it does is kick the sparkle pony can down the road.
In the end, we got the Debt ceiling raised, and that is all that I really give a shit about today.
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 13:12:53
I like that phrase, Institutional Memory. Perfectly put.
Raine on 08/01/2011 13:12:53
Quote by Mondobubba:That is the same arguement I try to make. With term limits you lose institutional memory. The legislators become captives of the professional staffers who have been around longer than the people they work for.
Comment by TriSec on 08/01/2011 13:13:55
TriSec on 08/01/2011 13:13:55
I know, I know.
But then you also get the entrenched asshats that are just there because they can be. Some congressmen are in congress just so they can get re-elected. It is "follow the money", for sure. But that cuts both ways...our own Scott Brown being an example. His term ends next year (the last of Kennedy's), but there's no strong candidates in this state right now. That hasn't stopped Move On from an ad buy over the last week targeting him, though.
But then you also get the entrenched asshats that are just there because they can be. Some congressmen are in congress just so they can get re-elected. It is "follow the money", for sure. But that cuts both ways...our own Scott Brown being an example. His term ends next year (the last of Kennedy's), but there's no strong candidates in this state right now. That hasn't stopped Move On from an ad buy over the last week targeting him, though.
Comment by TriSec on 08/01/2011 13:14:55
TriSec on 08/01/2011 13:14:55
Some of the other rules need to change, too. Thomas Jefferson and John Adams wrote 'simple majority' into the Constitution, didn't they? When did we start needing 60 seats for anything to happen?
Comment by 
BobR on 08/01/2011 13:22:36
That's up to the Senate to change. The Constitution also allows them to make those kind of rules.
BobR on 08/01/2011 13:22:36
Quote by TriSec:
Some of the other rules need to change, too. Thomas Jefferson and John Adams wrote 'simple majority' into the Constitution, didn't they? When did we start needing 60 seats for anything to happen?
That's up to the Senate to change. The Constitution also allows them to make those kind of rules.
Comment by 
Scoopster on 08/01/2011 13:34:49
Scoopster on 08/01/2011 13:34:49
Mornin' all & Happy Mondee.. 
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 13:42:26
Along with the things I mentioned there needs to be an end to germandered districts. The people of Florida spoke loud and clear about this and amended the state constitution to stop the practice. By law, districts (both state and federal) need to be "compact and continous" and have either natural boundries or county boundries as borders. Corrine Brown is none to happy about this, but check out the map of her district. . To be honest, I think Ander Crenshaw (My congress critter, (Fl-Useless)'s district is almost as bad. You reall can't see in detail on his map how his district doesn't include a group of "minority" zip codes on the south bank of Jacksonville.
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 13:42:26
Quote by TriSec:
I know, I know.
But then you also get the entrenched asshats that are just there because they can be. Some congressmen are in congress just so they can get re-elected. It is "follow the money", for sure. But that cuts both ways...our own Scott Brown being an example. His term ends next year (the last of Kennedy's), but there's no strong candidates in this state right now. That hasn't stopped Move On from an ad buy over the last week targeting him, though.
Along with the things I mentioned there needs to be an end to germandered districts. The people of Florida spoke loud and clear about this and amended the state constitution to stop the practice. By law, districts (both state and federal) need to be "compact and continous" and have either natural boundries or county boundries as borders. Corrine Brown is none to happy about this, but check out the map of her district. . To be honest, I think Ander Crenshaw (My congress critter, (Fl-Useless)'s district is almost as bad. You reall can't see in detail on his map how his district doesn't include a group of "minority" zip codes on the south bank of Jacksonville.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 13:43:54
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 13:43:54
Oh almost forgot, the Republican asshat super majority is doing everything in its power to undermine the fair district amendment.
Comment by BobR on 08/01/2011 13:45:27
It used to be like that in GA too. There was a district that included Macon and then followed the interstate to Savannah to include parts of that.
BobR on 08/01/2011 13:45:27
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by TriSec:
I know, I know.
But then you also get the entrenched asshats that are just there because they can be. Some congressmen are in congress just so they can get re-elected. It is "follow the money", for sure. But that cuts both ways...our own Scott Brown being an example. His term ends next year (the last of Kennedy's), but there's no strong candidates in this state right now. That hasn't stopped Move On from an ad buy over the last week targeting him, though.
Along with the things I mentioned there needs to be an end to germandered districts. The people of Florida spoke loud and clear about this and amended the state constitution to stop the practice. By law, districts (both state and federal) need to be "compact and continous" and have either natural boundries or county boundries as borders. Corrine Brown is none to happy about this, but check out the map of her district. . To be honest, I think Ander Crenshaw (My congress critter, (Fl-Useless)'s district is almost as bad. You reall can't see in detail on his map how his district doesn't include a group of "minority" zip codes on the south bank of Jacksonville.
It used to be like that in GA too. There was a district that included Macon and then followed the interstate to Savannah to include parts of that.
Comment by BobR on 08/01/2011 13:46:54
BobR on 08/01/2011 13:46:54
Caller not helping her cause with her fumbled "negotiate from the Left" argument. Why aren't these people angry at Nancy Pelosi? She's the leader of the Dems in the House. It's their job to do these negotiations.
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 13:47:47
I think you just nailed why I don't see this as constitutional.
As I said, kicking the can. IT takes away the idea of representational government. There was a REASON why we have 2 houses of congress.
Raine on 08/01/2011 13:47:47
Quote by Mondobubba:
Oh almost forgot, the Republican asshat super majority is doing everything in its power to undermine the fair district amendment.
As I said, kicking the can. IT takes away the idea of representational government. There was a REASON why we have 2 houses of congress.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/01/2011 13:53:13
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 13:53:13
Comment by TriSec on 08/01/2011 13:58:01
TriSec on 08/01/2011 13:58:01
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 14:04:51
Raine on 08/01/2011 14:04:51
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 14:06:49
Here you go!
Raine on 08/01/2011 14:06:49
Quote by wickedpam:
I need baby animal cuteness this morning
screw itcan't post the video right
go here for cuteness
Comment by wickedpam on 08/01/2011 14:08:17
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 14:08:17
Thank you - so far I feel very much like that puppy this morning
Comment by Scoopster on 08/01/2011 14:20:34
Scoopster on 08/01/2011 14:20:34
I need some silliness this morning to beat off the wolves of despair..
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 14:30:47
Raine on 08/01/2011 14:30:47
Scoop. that is highly disturbing...
Comment by wickedpam on 08/01/2011 14:33:15
agreed
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 14:33:15
Quote by Raine:
Scoop. that is highly disturbing...
agreed
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 14:37:12
So do I.
In my on going fantasy about Obama and the debt ceiling here is what happens: Obama invokes martial law and has every Republican member of Congress arrested under the PATRIOT Act as a suspected Terrorist.
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 14:37:12
Quote by Raine:
May I ask that you read this?
I kinda agree with Greg Sargeant.
So do I.
In my on going fantasy about Obama and the debt ceiling here is what happens: Obama invokes martial law and has every Republican member of Congress arrested under the PATRIOT Act as a suspected Terrorist.
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 15:24:56
There are a lot of people living in a fantasy world today.
A few very good people have damn lost thier minds in these past few weeks.
Raine on 08/01/2011 15:24:56
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
May I ask that you read this?
I kinda agree with Greg Sargeant.
So do I.
In my on going fantasy about Obama and the debt ceiling here is what happens: Obama invokes martial law and has every Republican member of Congress arrested under the PATRIOT Act as a suspected Terrorist.
A few very good people have damn lost thier minds in these past few weeks.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 15:30:16
The difference is I know this is in fantasy land, others not so much.
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 15:30:16
Quote by Raine:There are a lot of people living in a fantasy world today.Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
May I ask that you read this?
I kinda agree with Greg Sargeant.
So do I.
In my on going fantasy about Obama and the debt ceiling here is what happens: Obama invokes martial law and has every Republican member of Congress arrested under the PATRIOT Act as a suspected Terrorist.
A few very good people have damn lost thier minds in these past few weeks.
The difference is I know this is in fantasy land, others not so much.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/01/2011 15:30:17
Fantasy world and Repub Congress freeps are concepts that do not go together
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 15:30:17
Quote by Raine:There are a lot of people living in a fantasy world today.Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
May I ask that you read this?
I kinda agree with Greg Sargeant.
So do I.
In my on going fantasy about Obama and the debt ceiling here is what happens: Obama invokes martial law and has every Republican member of Congress arrested under the PATRIOT Act as a suspected Terrorist.
A few very good people have damn lost thier minds in these past few weeks.
Fantasy world and Repub Congress freeps are concepts that do not go together
Comment by wickedpam on 08/01/2011 15:43:37
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 15:43:37
Okay, I only missed friday - when did we get a Super Congress?
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 15:44:57
One fine friend of mine is trying to tell me that POTUS is a Republican. On MY FB page.
Now anyone who knows me well enough, I am MORE than happy to disagree, but ask for theories based on FACT and not hyperbole.
Raine on 08/01/2011 15:44:57
Quote by Mondobubba:
The difference is I know this is in fantasy land, others not so much.
Now anyone who knows me well enough, I am MORE than happy to disagree, but ask for theories based on FACT and not hyperbole.
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 15:45:13
Raine on 08/01/2011 15:45:13
SHANE!!
Comment by Scoopster on 08/01/2011 15:49:53
Scoopster on 08/01/2011 15:49:53
Comment by wickedpam on 08/01/2011 15:53:41
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 15:53:41
I've heard a forklift crash into a pallet or 2 of wine - its not pretty and the smell gets through the building
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 16:01:35
Salon has a couple of interesting articles today on the debt thingy. Here's one.
The other is from Glen Greenwald of all people.
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 16:01:35
Quote by Raine:One fine friend of mine is trying to tell me that POTUS is a Republican. On MY FB page.Quote by Mondobubba:
The difference is I know this is in fantasy land, others not so much.
Now anyone who knows me well enough, I am MORE than happy to disagree, but ask for theories based on FACT and not hyperbole.
Salon has a couple of interesting articles today on the debt thingy. Here's one.
The other is from Glen Greenwald of all people.
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 16:02:28
Oh No! (can I please 
? )
Raine on 08/01/2011 16:02:28
Quote by wickedpam:
I've heard a forklift crash into a pallet or 2 of wine - its not pretty and the smell gets through the building
? )
Comment by wickedpam on 08/01/2011 16:09:16
you certainly may - I swear I think our forklift and warehouse guys are trying to kill us. One day they backed it into the gas line and we had to evacuate the building. Then another day not long after the anthrax attacks they discovers some pouched of white powder in a shipment that had come from the port, called the police, the police called hazemat, we again had to evacuate while hazemat had to set up a cleaning station for those who discovered the pouches. Turns out it was the same stuff they put in purses or shoes to keep them - basically it was silica and the port guys forgot to remove it before they sent off the pallets
Station 501 knows up well.
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 16:09:16
Quote by Raine:Oh No! (can I pleaseQuote by wickedpam:
I've heard a forklift crash into a pallet or 2 of wine - its not pretty and the smell gets through the building
you certainly may - I swear I think our forklift and warehouse guys are trying to kill us. One day they backed it into the gas line and we had to evacuate the building. Then another day not long after the anthrax attacks they discovers some pouched of white powder in a shipment that had come from the port, called the police, the police called hazemat, we again had to evacuate while hazemat had to set up a cleaning station for those who discovered the pouches. Turns out it was the same stuff they put in purses or shoes to keep them - basically it was silica and the port guys forgot to remove it before they sent off the pallets
Station 501 knows up well.
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 16:09:41
That was REALLY good.
I have a bit of anger flowing in my veins right now. When he spoke of Jimmy Carter, I just get REALLY angry at those that are helping to make him just that.
Ironic now that people look back at Jimmy Carter and wonder, What if? This was a REALLY really good piece, Thanks for posting it Mondo.
Raine on 08/01/2011 16:09:41
Quote by Mondobubba:
Salon has a couple of interesting articles today on the debt thingy. Here's one.
The other is from Glen Greenwald of all people.
I have a bit of anger flowing in my veins right now. When he spoke of Jimmy Carter, I just get REALLY angry at those that are helping to make him just that.
Ironic now that people look back at Jimmy Carter and wonder, What if? This was a REALLY really good piece, Thanks for posting it Mondo.
Comment by BobR on 08/01/2011 16:10:46
When they were bitten by a radioactive spider
BobR on 08/01/2011 16:10:46
Quote by wickedpam:
Okay, I only missed friday - when did we get a Super Congress?
When they were bitten by a radioactive spider
Comment by wickedpam on 08/01/2011 16:11:55
ah - must have been one big spider
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 16:11:55
Quote by BobR:Quote by wickedpam:
Okay, I only missed friday - when did we get a Super Congress?
When they were bitten by a radioactive spider
ah - must have been one big spider
Comment by BobR on 08/01/2011 16:12:35
Damn that Republican Obama!
BobR on 08/01/2011 16:12:35
Damn that Republican Obama!
Comment by Scoopster on 08/01/2011 16:12:54
Scoopster on 08/01/2011 16:12:54
UGH... 
I'm really hating the internets today.
You would think that of all people political activists would at least dig into the facts of this compromise deal - which essentially a clean debt limit increase with a bunch of silly commissions and impossible-to-meet conditional triggers attached to appease the teabaggers. BUT NOOOOOOO almost everyone on our side today is screaming PRIMARY OBAMA THE CAPITULATOR - WE SHOULDA VOTED FOR HILLARY OR MCCAIN!
I'm really hating the internets today.You would think that of all people political activists would at least dig into the facts of this compromise deal - which essentially a clean debt limit increase with a bunch of silly commissions and impossible-to-meet conditional triggers attached to appease the teabaggers. BUT NOOOOOOO almost everyone on our side today is screaming PRIMARY OBAMA THE CAPITULATOR - WE SHOULDA VOTED FOR HILLARY OR MCCAIN!
Comment by Raine on 08/01/2011 16:21:22
I feel the same damn way.
You know he capitulated so much that he helped to save PELL GRANTS. Come take a gander at my FB page today... it is such a pleasure.
People have DAMN lost thier minds!
Raine on 08/01/2011 16:21:22
Quote by Scoopster:
UGH...
You would think that of all people political activists would at least dig into the facts of this compromise deal - which essentially a clean debt limit increase with a bunch of silly commissions and impossible-to-meet conditional triggers attached to appease the teabaggers. BUT NOOOOOOO almost everyone on our side today is screaming PRIMARY OBAMA THE CAPITULATOR - WE SHOULDA VOTED FOR HILLARY OR MCCAIN!
I feel the same damn way. You know he capitulated so much that he helped to save PELL GRANTS. Come take a gander at my FB page today... it is such a pleasure.
People have DAMN lost thier minds!
Comment by wickedpam on 08/01/2011 16:27:17
wickedpam on 08/01/2011 16:27:17
Um Thom I think comparing Washington and Obama is kinda apples and oranges
Comment by 
livingonli on 08/01/2011 16:28:21
livingonli on 08/01/2011 16:28:21
I think if McCain was elected, we would be in a depression because he would have continued Bush's policies and considering Hillary's own centrist leanings would she probably would have done more or less the same policies.
The big problem is Citizens United needs to be overturned because it is allowing money to corrupt the system even more than it already does.
The big problem is Citizens United needs to be overturned because it is allowing money to corrupt the system even more than it already does.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 16:33:23
You lead a dangerous work life Mala.
Mondobubba on 08/01/2011 16:33:23
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:Oh No! (can I pleaseQuote by wickedpam:
I've heard a forklift crash into a pallet or 2 of wine - its not pretty and the smell gets through the building
you certainly may - I swear I think our forklift and warehouse guys are trying to kill us. One day they backed it into the gas line and we had to evacuate the building. Then another day not long after the anthrax attacks they discovers some pouched of white powder in a shipment that had come from the port, called the police, the police called hazemat, we again had to evacuate while hazemat had to set up a cleaning station for those who discovered the pouches. Turns out it was the same stuff they put in purses or shoes to keep them - basically it was silica and the port guys forgot to remove it before they sent off the pallets
Station 501 knows up well.
You lead a dangerous work life Mala.