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Constitution Redux... further musings
Author: BobR
Date: 02/27/2008 13:31:38
Last Saturday, TriSec posted a muse on the U.S. Constitution. I'd like to provide a "part II", and continue along the same lines, discussing some bits that I find interesting as well.
From Article 1, Section 8:
This sounds to me that Congress is given most of the foreign relations power. Yet we seem to often expect that power to reside in the presidency. In fact, the whole "foreign policy" experience issue seems to be the number one talking point this election cycle, even though the President is not granted any specific powers in that area.
Again, from Article 1, Section 8:
So the Congress is granted the power to raise an army and maintain a navy. To me it seems pretty clear that maintaining an army is unconstitutional. It also points out that Congress needs to redo the spending bills for the military at least every two years, so it's in their power to keep that from spiraling out of control. They certainly haven't done much of that controlling over the last 7 years.
Once more from Article 1, Section 8:
Compare that to the 2nd Amendment:
It seems to be even more clear that the whole "well regulated militia" part of the second amendment is key to this. This is NOT a blanket "everyone can own a gun" declaration; it is clearly a description of our modern National Guard, with the idea that the Guard would provide for the defense of the country, and would defend the people from the government should the need arise.
Finally, apropos of another important news item, from Article 1, Section 9:
"ex post facto Law" means any retroactive law, such as say - granting retroactive immunity to the telecoms? Once again the Bush Administration and its cronies are pushing for a law that is patently unconstitutional.
Despite being 200 yrs old, the U.S. Constitution is an amazing document, and despite the anachronistic linguistic stylings and verbiage, is not that hard to read and comprehend. I recommend it to everyone.
From Article 1, Section 8:
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states...
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin...
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States...
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations...
Again, from Article 1, Section 8:
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
Once more from Article 1, Section 8:
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
It seems to be even more clear that the whole "well regulated militia" part of the second amendment is key to this. This is NOT a blanket "everyone can own a gun" declaration; it is clearly a description of our modern National Guard, with the idea that the Guard would provide for the defense of the country, and would defend the people from the government should the need arise.
Finally, apropos of another important news item, from Article 1, Section 9:
No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
"ex post facto Law" means any retroactive law, such as say - granting retroactive immunity to the telecoms? Once again the Bush Administration and its cronies are pushing for a law that is patently unconstitutional.
Despite being 200 yrs old, the U.S. Constitution is an amazing document, and despite the anachronistic linguistic stylings and verbiage, is not that hard to read and comprehend. I recommend it to everyone.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
velveeta jones on 02/27/2008 13:52:33
velveeta jones on 02/27/2008 13:52:33
First? Oh goody!
Excellent post BobR. I too am awed by our Constitution. It may not be absolutely perfect, but it has served us well............... up until our current criminals.
I am still angry and confused why we cannot impeach these guys for their crimes!
I'm not sure about the 2nd Amendment, I do believe it refers to our "national guard" (well regulated militia) but I am frankly glad that we - us common folk - are able to own guns. We may one day need to protect ourselves from "ourselves".
BTW: if anyone wants a copy of the constitution, Dennis Kucinich is giving out autographed copies of the small version that he carries on him, for a contribution. He is desperate for funds!!
Excellent post BobR. I too am awed by our Constitution. It may not be absolutely perfect, but it has served us well............... up until our current criminals.
I am still angry and confused why we cannot impeach these guys for their crimes!
I'm not sure about the 2nd Amendment, I do believe it refers to our "national guard" (well regulated militia) but I am frankly glad that we - us common folk - are able to own guns. We may one day need to protect ourselves from "ourselves".
BTW: if anyone wants a copy of the constitution, Dennis Kucinich is giving out autographed copies of the small version that he carries on him, for a contribution. He is desperate for funds!!
Comment by 
livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:16:40
livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:16:40
Good morning everyone. 
Since it seems as if the Telcom immunity provision is a violation of the constitution under the prohibition of ex post facto laws, why hasn't the opposition brought it up and only a little blog seems to have noticed this little detail?
Since it seems as if the Telcom immunity provision is a violation of the constitution under the prohibition of ex post facto laws, why hasn't the opposition brought it up and only a little blog seems to have noticed this little detail?
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:19:01
livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:19:01
I do wonder how they judge the voiting? I figured Bernie Sanders would be the furthest to the left of any Senator (followed by Feingold and B-Box).
Comment by 
Raine on 02/27/2008 14:19:28
Raine on 02/27/2008 14:19:28
Good morning. Very good post bobR
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:21:42
livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:21:42
What is with Bill O'Reilly's obsessive hatred of George Soros?
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/27/2008 14:26:26
velveeta jones on 02/27/2008 14:26:26
For those of you are a tad 
You'll want to check out this article which claims that audio forensics scientists believe that the Robert Kennedy assassination was (also) not a lone gunman! Very interesting!
Article
Someone needs to call our TinFoil God: Jim Ward!
You'll want to check out this article which claims that audio forensics scientists believe that the Robert Kennedy assassination was (also) not a lone gunman! Very interesting!
Article
Someone needs to call our TinFoil God: Jim Ward!
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2008 14:26:48
Raine on 02/27/2008 14:26:48
Ed from chicago!
Comment by 
m-hadley on 02/27/2008 14:29:34
Mornin' Everybody :)
Good Post BobR.
Anybody know whether they voted yesterday on the telecom immunity provision of the FISA Bill (I think it was up in the House, perhaps debated in the Senate?)? Just so you all know today the Supremes will hear the Exxon Valdez case - whether the 24,000 (out of the original 30,000 - 6000 of the original claimants have died) Native fishermen and other Alaskans wil ever see the $2.5 billion that a court granted them over 14 years ago... I sure do hope that they get what they have coming to them .
For Exxon 
For Plaintiffs
Cheers,
mfaye
m-hadley on 02/27/2008 14:29:34
Quote by livingonli: I do wonder how they judge the voiting? I figured Bernie Sanders would be the furthest to the left of any Senator (followed by Feingold and B-Box).
Mornin' Everybody :)
Good Post BobR.
Anybody know whether they voted yesterday on the telecom immunity provision of the FISA Bill (I think it was up in the House, perhaps debated in the Senate?)? Just so you all know today the Supremes will hear the Exxon Valdez case - whether the 24,000 (out of the original 30,000 - 6000 of the original claimants have died) Native fishermen and other Alaskans wil ever see the $2.5 billion that a court granted them over 14 years ago... I sure do hope that they get what they have coming to them .
For Exxon For PlaintiffsCheers,
mfaye
Comment by 
TriSec on 02/27/2008 14:30:21
TriSec on 02/27/2008 14:30:21
Morning, folks! Just a quick blow-through.
Athena has re-organized again, and I'm working with our new manager this week to get her familiarized and up to speed with all our processes...
Which will cut down on my blogging time. But I suppose I could train her on 4F policy and procedures, too....
But I don't think JB would approve.
Athena has re-organized again, and I'm working with our new manager this week to get her familiarized and up to speed with all our processes...
Which will cut down on my blogging time. But I suppose I could train her on 4F policy and procedures, too....
But I don't think JB would approve.
Comment by 
BobR on 02/27/2008 14:34:21
wow - that was eye-opening...
BobR on 02/27/2008 14:34:21
Quote by velveeta jones: For those of you are a tad
You'll want to check out this article which claims that audio forensics scientists believe that the Robert Kennedy assassination was (also) not a lone gunman! Very interesting!
Article
Someone needs to call our TinFoil God: Jim Ward!
wow - that was eye-opening...
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:34:24
Hopefully you can make some time for more eveening musings.
Does this increase the chance of you going to Maine?
livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:34:24
Quote by TriSec: Morning, folks! Just a quick blow-through.
Athena has re-organized again, and I'm working with our new manager this week to get her familiarized and up to speed with all our processes...
Which will cut down on my blogging time. But I suppose I could train her on 4F policy and procedures, too....
But I don't think JB would approve.
Hopefully you can make some time for more eveening musings.
Does this increase the chance of you going to Maine?
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/27/2008 14:35:04
velveeta jones on 02/27/2008 14:35:04
Yeah! I wouldn't have seen that sketch if one of ya'll hadn't posted it!
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:35:54
Thom Hartmann said on yesterday's show, he's worried that corporatist judges like Roberts will rule in Exxon's favor. That's why we should worry about the future of the Supreme Court under the next administration.
livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:35:54
Quote by m-hadley:Quote by livingonli: I do wonder how they judge the voiting? I figured Bernie Sanders would be the furthest to the left of any Senator (followed by Feingold and B-Box).
Mornin' Everybody :)
Good Post BobR.
Anybody know whether they voted yesterday on the telecom immunity provision of the FISA Bill (I think it was up in the House, perhaps debated in the Senate?)? Just so you all know today the Supremes will hear the Exxon Valdez case - whether the 24,000 (out of the original 30,000 - 6000 of the original claimants have died) Native fishermen and other Alaskans wil ever see the $2.5 billion that a court granted them over 14 years ago... I sure do hope that they get what they have coming to them .
Cheers,
mfaye
Thom Hartmann said on yesterday's show, he's worried that corporatist judges like Roberts will rule in Exxon's favor. That's why we should worry about the future of the Supreme Court under the next administration.
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:38:19
livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:38:19
A little bird told me it's Will in Chicago's birthday. 
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/27/2008 14:40:36
Will in Chicago on 02/27/2008 14:40:36
Good morning, Bloggers!!
I hope that everyone is well today. I am taking the day off for a regular physical - and for my birthday.
I hope that everyone is well today. I am taking the day off for a regular physical - and for my birthday.
Comment by 
shelaghc on 02/27/2008 14:43:07
shelaghc on 02/27/2008 14:43:07
Hallo all
My car had currently taken up residence at my mechanic's garagee, my current temporary boss is interviewing people (I had been told I would be interviewed, but since no one seems to have scheduled me, I'm not crying pools of tears - the attitude of some of the doctors towards the people who support them is abominable), the DL Pittsburgh party last night went fantastically, I've been fortunate enough to have hitched rides with kind souls and something's brewing today that bodes well for me.
Now, if I could only work on the frickin' dictation that's been foisted on me for some unconscionable reason. There are four tapes sitting waiting for me but the headset is *so* painful I hate to have to use it.
How're all of you doing?
My car had currently taken up residence at my mechanic's garagee, my current temporary boss is interviewing people (I had been told I would be interviewed, but since no one seems to have scheduled me, I'm not crying pools of tears - the attitude of some of the doctors towards the people who support them is abominable), the DL Pittsburgh party last night went fantastically, I've been fortunate enough to have hitched rides with kind souls and something's brewing today that bodes well for me.
Now, if I could only work on the frickin' dictation that's been foisted on me for some unconscionable reason. There are four tapes sitting waiting for me but the headset is *so* painful I hate to have to use it.
How're all of you doing?
Comment by shelaghc on 02/27/2008 14:43:42
shelaghc on 02/27/2008 14:43:42
Happy Birthday Will!
Comment by BobR on 02/27/2008 14:46:16
Going to the doctor on your birthday? I hope you have other things planned as well!
:party:
BobR on 02/27/2008 14:46:16
Quote by will in chicago: Good morning, Bloggers!!
I hope that everyone is well today. I am taking the day off for a regular physical - and for my birthday.
Going to the doctor on your birthday? I hope you have other things planned as well!
:party:
Comment by 
Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 14:46:28
Happy B-Day!
Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 14:46:28
Quote by will in chicago: Good morning, Bloggers!!
I hope that everyone is well today. I am taking the day off for a regular physical - and for my birthday.
Happy B-Day!
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2008 14:48:44
Raine on 02/27/2008 14:48:44
Letter to the editor at Rolling stone Magazine:
I edited the letter as it was printed in this weeks rolling stone mag. the letter is much longer, but the message is still pretty clear, the FBI does indeed arrest people for the traits they assume are bad.
(bold face mine)
There is an old saying among reporters: The worst thing you can do to a good story is check it out. Guy Lawson ("The Fear Factory" Rolling Stone, February 7th) brings hypothetical theory to new heights. After "checking it out," Mr. Lawson simply tailored his story around any compelling facts that did not fit his original premise. [...]
Derrick Shareef, the convicted terrorist at the center of the story who Mr. Lawson frivolously described as being a "wanna-be jihadi," possessed all of the traits necessary to harm or kill innocent citizens. [...] There is no evidence that he ever wavered in his desire to murder holiday shoppers in the CherryVale Mall that day. Would he have succeeded had it not been for the diligence of the JTTF? Mr. Lawson's story suggests we should be willing to take this gamble, but he is not responsible for the outcome. No one will knock on the doors of Rolling Stone and ask why people died that day.[...]
If we have identified somebody with the intent to take lives in the name of extremism and we fail to take the appropriate action, we are ignoring our sworn mission to protect the innocent. Regardless of criticism, it is our obligation to err on the side of their safety while continuing to adhere to Constitutional protections.
John J. Miller
Assistant Director
Federal Bureau of Investigation
I edited the letter as it was printed in this weeks rolling stone mag. the letter is much longer, but the message is still pretty clear, the FBI does indeed arrest people for the traits they assume are bad.
(bold face mine)
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/27/2008 14:52:18
velveeta jones on 02/27/2008 14:52:18
Happy B-day Will!!
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:54:02
livingonli on 02/27/2008 14:54:02
If he keeps shouting, Bill Cunningham should lose his voice.
Comment by 
wickedpam on 02/27/2008 14:54:10
wickedpam on 02/27/2008 14:54:10
Morning! :hug:
Happy B-Day Will!
Happy B-Day Will!
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2008 14:56:35
:dance2::dance::party:Happy Birthday will!!!:party: 
Raine on 02/27/2008 14:56:35
Comment by BobR on 02/27/2008 15:02:34
Like voice, like mind...
BobR on 02/27/2008 15:02:34
Quote by livingonli: If he keeps shouting, Bill Cunningham should lose his voice.
Like voice, like mind...
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/27/2008 15:06:54
Will in Chicago on 02/27/2008 15:06:54
So, if we keep on hearing conservatives use Barack HUSSEIN Obama, can we just refer to the Republican candidate as Senator John SIDNEY McCain?
Comment by Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:07:59
How about
?
Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:07:59
Quote by will in chicago: So, if we keep on hearing conservatives use Barack HUSSEIN Obama, can we just refer to the Republican candidate as Senator John SIDNEY McCain?
How about
?
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2008 15:08:24
Raine on 02/27/2008 15:08:24
Yippy kayo yie ayy!!!!!!! :party:
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2008 15:09:41
I think his mind is already gone, if he ever had one.
livingonli on 02/27/2008 15:09:41
Quote by BobR:Quote by livingonli: If he keeps shouting, Bill Cunningham should lose his voice.
Like voice, like mind...
I think his mind is already gone, if he ever had one.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2008 15:10:41
Only if you yell it.
wickedpam on 02/27/2008 15:10:41
Quote by will in chicago: So, if we keep on hearing conservatives use Barack HUSSEIN Obama, can we just refer to the Republican candidate as Senator John SIDNEY McCain?
Only if you yell it.
Comment by m-hadley on 02/27/2008 15:16:19
Happy Happy Birthday Will - I hope you celebrate in a more festive way after you see the doctor.
Cheers,
mfaye
m-hadley on 02/27/2008 15:16:19
Quote by will in chicago: Good morning, Bloggers!!
I hope that everyone is well today. I am taking the day off for a regular physical - and for my birthday.
Happy Happy Birthday Will - I hope you celebrate in a more festive way after you see the doctor.
Cheers,
mfaye
Comment by m-hadley on 02/27/2008 15:17:54
Don't forget about McCain's wife - Cindy LOU (Who?) Hensley McCain :)
m-hadley on 02/27/2008 15:17:54
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by will in chicago: So, if we keep on hearing conservatives use Barack HUSSEIN Obama, can we just refer to the Republican candidate as Senator John SIDNEY McCain?
Only if you yell it.
Don't forget about McCain's wife - Cindy LOU (Who?) Hensley McCain :)
Comment by Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:18:25
Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:18:25
Kim Il.....
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2008 15:19:56
Raine on 02/27/2008 15:19:56
McCain is such a liar. He didn't repudiate anything when a supporter called hillary a bich to his face.
Comment by Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:20:25
Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:20:25
This is why I do not speak for anyone but myself.
I rude, crude and I take no shit.
That is not the way a "Group" or a person should talk in public.
I rude, crude and I take no shit.
That is not the way a "Group" or a person should talk in public.
Comment by BobR on 02/27/2008 15:21:12
With an IQ of no more than two!
BobR on 02/27/2008 15:21:12
Quote by m-hadley:
Don't forget about McCain's wife - Cindy LOU (Who?) Hensley McCain :)
With an IQ of no more than two!
Comment by Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:23:13
Don't you DARE bring THAT up that's so a few months ago!
"Anchant History!"
But Clinton gota blow job and lied about it!
[/RightWingNutJob Rant]
Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:23:13
Quote by Raine: McCain is such a liar. He didn't repudiate anything when a supporter called hillary a bich to his face.
Don't you DARE bring THAT up that's so a few months ago!
"Anchant History!"
But Clinton gota blow job and lied about it!
[/RightWingNutJob Rant]
Comment by 
starling310 on 02/27/2008 15:26:02
starling310 on 02/27/2008 15:26:02
"I'm a young soul in this very strange world. . . la, la, la, la. . . . " 
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2008 15:28:09
wickedpam on 02/27/2008 15:28:09
Question -
About 6-7 months ago the townhouse next store to me was sold. In the past 6-7 months we have had about every 3 months 2-3 people move in and out. Any suggestions on what to do?
About 6-7 months ago the townhouse next store to me was sold. In the past 6-7 months we have had about every 3 months 2-3 people move in and out. Any suggestions on what to do?
Comment by starling310 on 02/27/2008 15:30:18
Happy Birthday Will!
starling310 on 02/27/2008 15:30:18
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2008 15:31:29
Sounds like more people who can't afford homes.
livingonli on 02/27/2008 15:31:29
Quote by wickedpam: Question -
About 6-7 months ago the townhouse next store to me was sold. In the past 6-7 months we have had about every 3 months 2-3 people move in and out. Any suggestions on what to do?
Sounds like more people who can't afford homes.
Comment by starling310 on 02/27/2008 15:31:34
starling310 on 02/27/2008 15:31:34
: GREEN960 commercial break promo : : leave it to beaver-esque music : : female voice over : "Stay tuned for more with Momma and the Mooks on Green 960."
Comment by Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:32:00
Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:32:00
Gas prices get much higher I might not be able to go to the blog meet up! 
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2008 15:34:27
We're thinking its being used as a transit home. Plus they always move in and out in the middle of the night. Last night I had to tell them to keep it down cause they kept banging stuff against the wall and Mom couldn't sleep.
wickedpam on 02/27/2008 15:34:27
Quote by livingonli:Quote by wickedpam: Question -
About 6-7 months ago the townhouse next store to me was sold. In the past 6-7 months we have had about every 3 months 2-3 people move in and out. Any suggestions on what to do?
Sounds like more people who can't afford homes.
We're thinking its being used as a transit home. Plus they always move in and out in the middle of the night. Last night I had to tell them to keep it down cause they kept banging stuff against the wall and Mom couldn't sleep.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2008 15:35:05
Don't you have a neighborhood association?
Is he house being rented out?
Raine on 02/27/2008 15:35:05
Quote by wickedpam: Question -
About 6-7 months ago the townhouse next store to me was sold. In the past 6-7 months we have had about every 3 months 2-3 people move in and out. Any suggestions on what to do?
Is he house being rented out?
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2008 15:35:42
What are prince in PA - inside the beltway here they are about 3.14. In my area, outside the beltway, it's about 3.07
wickedpam on 02/27/2008 15:35:42
Quote by Grumpymann: Gas prices get much higher I might not be able to go to the blog meet up!
What are prince in PA - inside the beltway here they are about 3.14. In my area, outside the beltway, it's about 3.07
Comment by Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:36:17
Is it being rented out?
2 to 3 months? do they even unpack?
Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:36:17
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by livingonli:Quote by wickedpam: Question -
About 6-7 months ago the townhouse next store to me was sold. In the past 6-7 months we have had about every 3 months 2-3 people move in and out. Any suggestions on what to do?
Sounds like more people who can't afford homes.
We're thinking its being used as a transit home. Plus they always move in and out in the middle of the night. Last night I had to tell them to keep it down cause they kept banging stuff against the wall and Mom couldn't sleep.
Is it being rented out?
2 to 3 months? do they even unpack?
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2008 15:36:28
Raine on 02/27/2008 15:36:28
Sounds like you are onto something there Mala. Seriously, if they are disturbing the peace, as it were it would not be wrong to call the police.
Have you had a chance to talk to any of these people?
Have you had a chance to talk to any of these people?
Comment by starling310 on 02/27/2008 15:37:10
The 3 stations near my house. . . 3.26, 3.26, and 3.24.
:thud:
starling310 on 02/27/2008 15:37:10
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Grumpymann: Gas prices get much higher I might not be able to go to the blog meet up!
What are prince in PA - inside the beltway here they are about 3.14. In my area, outside the beltway, it's about 3.07
The 3 stations near my house. . . 3.26, 3.26, and 3.24.
:thud:
Comment by Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:38:15
3.20 ish
That is just too much!
Grumpymann on 02/27/2008 15:38:15
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Grumpymann: Gas prices get much higher I might not be able to go to the blog meet up!
What are prince in PA - inside the beltway here they are about 3.14. In my area, outside the beltway, it's about 3.07
3.20 ish
That is just too much!