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StratFor: Is All Privacy Created Equal?
Author: Raine
Date: 02/27/2012 17:58:01
I woke up this morning to the news that Wikileaks has begun publishing upwards of 1.5 million emails that were gained by Anonymous.
The Guardian UK reports: Bold face mine. Also from the article: I am left with my usual pondering of the effectiveness of WikiLeaks. It's been well documents here in our archives. This is but one example of what I have previously written
What I found interesting is that this batch of information was obtained thru an email cache that was hacked. I asked earlier what people thought about e-mail hacking. I'm not questioning content here. I am questionting the means by which this information was procured.
I am wondering a number of things today, in particular, how and why are some people celebrating Anon/WikiLeaks for revealing information about private individuals stolen from private sources. In many cases, these are the same people who protest against government collecting information about private individuals without due course of legislative channels set up to protect citizens -- also known as the 4th amendment. I don't think Government should have the right to gather information -- cull information -- without due cause and without a warrant to do so. This has always been my stance. I don't want government in my inbox. I also find the Murdoch email/phone hacking investigation completely justified. I believe people deserve privacy. I also believe that outing a covert CIA operative is treasonous. I will quote myself:
The current batch of information was gleaned from a company called StratFor, this is a link to their AboutUs page: The is not a defense or a defamation of this company. This is basically their mission statement. You can go to their home page, and you will see that they are now giving thier content for free. This is (as they have stated) a result of the hacking incident that occurred on December 24, 2011. I recommend taking a look at the content they are providing; Much of it is news and analysis. IT appears to be a think Tank. Disclaimer: Today is the first day I have taken a deeper look at this privately held company.
On December 26, PC World published the followingOther clients are reported to be Coca-Cola, Dow, Georgetown University and the Knights of Columbus. I'm sure many other clients will be revealed in the coming days. Also of interest was this claim: On January 3, A website called Technology Spectaor appears to have confirmed this information about Credit card data: Bold face mine. Private information was released by Anonymous already, and now it appears that more information in the form of emails have been given to WikiLeaks for publication.
Anonymous calls the company a shadow 'CIA' for gathering NON-classified intelligence on international crises. Others call it a think tank. It provides a service to people.
Who is Anonymous to determine what is or is not immoral enough to have their private information revealed? Anonymous, along with WikiLeaks, have deems themselves as arbiter of what is and is not moral. Many Americans believe that Government spying into personal emails flies in the face of the constitution. Why would we celebrate a group of people doing the same things that we decry when it comes from Government?
Do the ends justify the means? What is the end game? Let me repeat something posted earlier: "The material contains privileged information about the US government's attacks against Julian Assange and WikiLeaks and Stratfor's own attempts to subvert WikiLeaks," the whistleblower website said. I don't believe I need to give the backstory regarding Mr. Assange here. I think it is fair to question motives at this point. I have long held the belief that when a group operates in anonymity we should question motives and reliability. Who is to say that you or I won't be next for writing something unsavory about WikiLeaks or anonymous?
Wired reports that "Stratfor had been aware that the e-mails would likely be published in some form by Anonymous, but said in January that the e-mails should not embarrass the company." I would say that the fact that Anonymous got this info so easily would be embarrassing enough. I digress.
We have a sincere lack of privacy in this nation -- and world. I believe that is a given. That said, I ask: when a group such as Anonymous steals private information and reveals it, how can we expect to see more transparency from the very groups that we desire it from? It appears that Anonymous/Wikileaks had no proof that this company was doing anything illicit aside from what appears to be a "hunch" based on the notion that it may be acting like a shadow CIA. I suspect we will see an ever bigger clampdown of information instead of more transparency.
Why do we justify this situation and criticize others for doing similar things?
and 
Raine
The Guardian UK reports:
WikiLeaks has begun releasing a cache of what it says are 5.5m emails obtained from the servers of Stratfor, a US-based intelligence gathering firm with about 300,000 subscribers.
The whistleblowing site has published 167 emails in its initial release. WikiLeaks says it has partnered with 25 media organisations around the world, including Rolling Stone, McClatchey, the Hindu and Russia Reporter.
Unlike previous WikiLeaks releases, this latest email cache was apparently obtained through a hacking attack on Stratfor by Anonymous in December 2011 rather than through a whistleblower
Anonymous published contact and credit card details from Stratfor and said at the time it had also obtained a large volume of emails for which it would arrange publication.
"The material contains privileged information about the US government's attacks against Julian Assange and WikiLeaks and Stratfor's own attempts to subvert WikiLeaks," the whistleblower website said.
"There are more than 4,000 emails mentioning WikiLeaks or Julian Assange. The emails also expose the revolving door that operates in private intelligence companies in the United States."
What I found interesting is that this batch of information was obtained thru an email cache that was hacked. I asked earlier what people thought about e-mail hacking. I'm not questioning content here. I am questionting the means by which this information was procured.
I am wondering a number of things today, in particular, how and why are some people celebrating Anon/WikiLeaks for revealing information about private individuals stolen from private sources. In many cases, these are the same people who protest against government collecting information about private individuals without due course of legislative channels set up to protect citizens -- also known as the 4th amendment. I don't think Government should have the right to gather information -- cull information -- without due cause and without a warrant to do so. This has always been my stance. I don't want government in my inbox. I also find the Murdoch email/phone hacking investigation completely justified. I believe people deserve privacy. I also believe that outing a covert CIA operative is treasonous. I will quote myself:
I know a lot of people were VERY angry that the former administration outed Valerie Plame -- a covert CIA agent. I am one of them. I still feel more people should have faced jail time for that treasonous act. Shouldn't we feel the same way about what WikiLeaks has done? People are outraged at the treatment of Sibel Edmonds. She is a whistleblower who has had first hand experience with what she speaks. Julian Assange and WikiLeaks do not. Someone 'procured' information that was not theirs and made it public.
The current batch of information was gleaned from a company called StratFor, this is a link to their AboutUs page:
Stratfor is a subscription-based provider of geopolitical analysis. Individual and corporate subscribers gain a thorough understanding of international affairs, including what’s happening, why it’s happening, and what will happen next.
Unlike traditional news outlets, Stratfor uses a unique, intelligence-based approach to gathering information via rigorous open-source monitoring and a global network of human sources. Analysts then evaluate events looking through the objective lens of geopolitics. Our goal is simple: to make the complexity of the world understandable to an intelligent readership, without ideology, agenda or national bias.
On December 26, PC World published the following
The damage from a weekend data breach at a think tank on international security issues appears to have been inflated by the assault's perpetrators, the hacker collective known as Anonymous.
After Anonymous ransacked think tank Stratfor's computers and stole away thousands of credit card numbers and other personal information, it claimed to have also clipped the company's confidential client list. That list contains sensitive information about Stratfor's high profile clients, such as Apple, the U.S. Air Force, and the Miami Police Department.
While to some it may appear that Anonymous is acting as an Information Age Robin Hood, it may not be doing anyone any favors by ringing up unauthorized charges on other people's credit cards. "These donations will never reach the ones in need," writes security guru Mikko Hypponen at F-Secure. "In fact, these actions will just end up hurting the charities, not helping them."
"When credit card owners see unauthorized charges on their cards, they will report them to their bank or credit card company," he explains. "Credit card companies will do a chargeback to the charities, which will have to return the money. In some cases, charities could be hit with penalties. At the very least, they will lose time and money in handling chargebacks."
Hackers affiliated with the Anonymous group published hundreds of thousands of email addresses belonging to subscribers of private intelligence analysis firm Strategic Forecasting Inc along with thousands of customer credit card numbers.
The lists, which were published on the Internet late on Thursday, included information on people including former US Vice President Dan Quayle, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and former CIA Director Jim Woolsey. They could not be reached for comment.
The lists included information on large numbers of people working for big corporations, the US military and major defence contractors - which attackers could potentially use to target them with virus-tainted emails in an approach known as "spear phishing."
The Antisec faction of Anonymous disclosed last weekend that it had hacked into the firm, which is widely known as Stratfor and is dubbed a "shadow CIA" because it gathers non-classified intelligence on international crises.
Anonymous calls the company a shadow 'CIA' for gathering NON-classified intelligence on international crises. Others call it a think tank. It provides a service to people.
Who is Anonymous to determine what is or is not immoral enough to have their private information revealed? Anonymous, along with WikiLeaks, have deems themselves as arbiter of what is and is not moral. Many Americans believe that Government spying into personal emails flies in the face of the constitution. Why would we celebrate a group of people doing the same things that we decry when it comes from Government?
Do the ends justify the means? What is the end game? Let me repeat something posted earlier: "The material contains privileged information about the US government's attacks against Julian Assange and WikiLeaks and Stratfor's own attempts to subvert WikiLeaks," the whistleblower website said. I don't believe I need to give the backstory regarding Mr. Assange here. I think it is fair to question motives at this point. I have long held the belief that when a group operates in anonymity we should question motives and reliability. Who is to say that you or I won't be next for writing something unsavory about WikiLeaks or anonymous?
Wired reports that "Stratfor had been aware that the e-mails would likely be published in some form by Anonymous, but said in January that the e-mails should not embarrass the company." I would say that the fact that Anonymous got this info so easily would be embarrassing enough. I digress.
We have a sincere lack of privacy in this nation -- and world. I believe that is a given. That said, I ask: when a group such as Anonymous steals private information and reveals it, how can we expect to see more transparency from the very groups that we desire it from? It appears that Anonymous/Wikileaks had no proof that this company was doing anything illicit aside from what appears to be a "hunch" based on the notion that it may be acting like a shadow CIA. I suspect we will see an ever bigger clampdown of information instead of more transparency.
Why do we justify this situation and criticize others for doing similar things?
and Raine
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 13:37:51
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 13:37:51
Morning 
I saw nothing of the Oscars personally, I don't think I even went out to see a movie last year.
I saw nothing of the Oscars personally, I don't think I even went out to see a movie last year.
Comment by 
Scoopster on 02/27/2012 13:47:01
Scoopster on 02/27/2012 13:47:01
Mornin' all.. 
did someone say boobies?
did someone say boobies?
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 14:02:44
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 14:02:44
Watched about 5 minutes of the Oscars. Had more pressing teevee to watch. Eastbound and Down y'all.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 02/27/2012 14:06:08
trojanrabbit on 02/27/2012 14:06:08
The fun is just beginning....
My EMC chamber arrived this morning....all 11,500 pounds of it.
Problem is, we have no loading dock and the truck it came on has no ramps or liftgate or forklift.
Fortunately the installation crew is getting a forklift delivered. I was more worried about where the stuff was going to go rather than getting it off the truck.
What's more my laptop is acting up. Hitting the ENTER key brings up the audio settings window. To do a "carriage return" I have to hit Shift ENTER.
uuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
My EMC chamber arrived this morning....all 11,500 pounds of it.
Problem is, we have no loading dock and the truck it came on has no ramps or liftgate or forklift.
Fortunately the installation crew is getting a forklift delivered. I was more worried about where the stuff was going to go rather than getting it off the truck.
What's more my laptop is acting up. Hitting the ENTER key brings up the audio settings window. To do a "carriage return" I have to hit Shift ENTER.
uuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Comment by 
velveeta jones on 02/27/2012 14:10:35
velveeta jones on 02/27/2012 14:10:35
Fell asleep during the awards. zzzzzzzzz. Still trying to wake up.
Comment by Scoopster on 02/27/2012 14:20:09
Heh at that point I was barely awake enough to flip on Food Network, where I stayed for the rest of the time I was awake last night.
Scoopster on 02/27/2012 14:20:09
Quote by Mondobubba:
Watched about 5 minutes of the Oscars. Had more pressing teevee to watch. Eastbound and Down y'all.
Heh at that point I was barely awake enough to flip on Food Network, where I stayed for the rest of the time I was awake last night.
Comment by 
Raine on 02/27/2012 14:21:06
Google Jennifer Lopez.
Raine on 02/27/2012 14:21:06
Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all..
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 14:23:30
Raine on 02/27/2012 14:23:30
I don't know what to make of this wklks story this morning.
I am gonna get something written if it kills me!
I am gonna get something written if it kills me!
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 14:27:52
Scoop are you a secret Cupcake Wars fan?
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 14:27:52
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Mondobubba:
Watched about 5 minutes of the Oscars. Had more pressing teevee to watch. Eastbound and Down y'all.
Heh at that point I was barely awake enough to flip on Food Network, where I stayed for the rest of the time I was awake last night.
Scoop are you a secret Cupcake Wars fan?
Comment by Scoopster on 02/27/2012 14:29:16
Frankly I don't think it's a slip as much as it's just poor preparation. Her nipples are EXTREMELY dark so she shoulda been wearing some pasties under that dress.
Scoopster on 02/27/2012 14:29:16
Quote by Raine:Google Jennifer Lopez.Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all..
Frankly I don't think it's a slip as much as it's just poor preparation. Her nipples are EXTREMELY dark so she shoulda been wearing some pasties under that dress.
Comment by Scoopster on 02/27/2012 14:30:47
Aw hell no that show's terrible. Iron Chef & Chopped for me, plus this Worst Cooks show is hilarious!
Scoopster on 02/27/2012 14:30:47
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Mondobubba:
Watched about 5 minutes of the Oscars. Had more pressing teevee to watch. Eastbound and Down y'all.
Heh at that point I was barely awake enough to flip on Food Network, where I stayed for the rest of the time I was awake last night.
Scoop are you a secret Cupcake Wars fan?
Aw hell no that show's terrible. Iron Chef & Chopped for me, plus this Worst Cooks show is hilarious!
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 14:53:47
Couldn't resist
Haven't seen the new season on Worst Cooks yet, loved Chef Irvine, how's Bobby Flay doing in his place?
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 14:53:47
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Mondobubba:
Watched about 5 minutes of the Oscars. Had more pressing teevee to watch. Eastbound and Down y'all.
Heh at that point I was barely awake enough to flip on Food Network, where I stayed for the rest of the time I was awake last night.
Scoop are you a secret Cupcake Wars fan?
Aw hell no that show's terrible. Iron Chef & Chopped for me, plus this Worst Cooks show is hilarious!
Couldn't resist
Haven't seen the new season on Worst Cooks yet, loved Chef Irvine, how's Bobby Flay doing in his place?
Comment by Scoopster on 02/27/2012 15:03:07
He's surprisingly cool-headed with the bunch that he got.. Anne's being driven insane tho I really think she might snap this season.
Scoopster on 02/27/2012 15:03:07
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Mondobubba:
Watched about 5 minutes of the Oscars. Had more pressing teevee to watch. Eastbound and Down y'all.
Heh at that point I was barely awake enough to flip on Food Network, where I stayed for the rest of the time I was awake last night.
Scoop are you a secret Cupcake Wars fan?
Aw hell no that show's terrible. Iron Chef & Chopped for me, plus this Worst Cooks show is hilarious!
Couldn't resist
Haven't seen the new season on Worst Cooks yet, loved Chef Irvine, how's Bobby Flay doing in his place?
He's surprisingly cool-headed with the bunch that he got.. Anne's being driven insane tho I really think she might snap this season.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:05:26
Chef Anne has been very busy this year, its a wonder she hasn't snapped already!
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:05:26
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Mondobubba:
Watched about 5 minutes of the Oscars. Had more pressing teevee to watch. Eastbound and Down y'all.
Heh at that point I was barely awake enough to flip on Food Network, where I stayed for the rest of the time I was awake last night.
Scoop are you a secret Cupcake Wars fan?
Aw hell no that show's terrible. Iron Chef & Chopped for me, plus this Worst Cooks show is hilarious!
Couldn't resist
Haven't seen the new season on Worst Cooks yet, loved Chef Irvine, how's Bobby Flay doing in his place?
He's surprisingly cool-headed with the bunch that he got.. Anne's being driven insane tho I really think she might snap this season.
Chef Anne has been very busy this year, its a wonder she hasn't snapped already!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 15:06:14
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 15:06:14
re: Food Network. Please see Anthony Bourdain's comments on same.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 15:07:21
Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 15:07:21
Good morning, bloggers!!
I hope that everyone is well. I am home as my car's starter is acting up. I do plan on a pretty good day despite this.
I hope that everyone is well. I am home as my car's starter is acting up. I do plan on a pretty good day despite this.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:13:01
ppbbbbttt on Bourdain - I enjoy the Food Network, although its more of the cake comps and shows like Restaurant:Impossible.
They did just do a really intersting show called "THe Big Waste" on the amount of food that gets thrown away in this country.
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:13:01
Quote by Mondobubba:
re: Food Network. Please see Anthony Bourdain's comments on same.
ppbbbbttt on Bourdain - I enjoy the Food Network, although its more of the cake comps and shows like Restaurant:Impossible.
They did just do a really intersting show called "THe Big Waste" on the amount of food that gets thrown away in this country.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 15:19:10
Raine on 02/27/2012 15:19:10
Serious questions:
Is the Murdoch hacking scandal and investigation a good thing? Why...
Is hacking emails good or bad?
Is the Murdoch hacking scandal and investigation a good thing? Why...
Is hacking emails good or bad?
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:22:26
I suppose it depends on your point of view and your reasons for doing it.
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:22:26
Quote by Raine:
Serious questions:
Is the Murdoch hacking scandal and investigation a good thing? Why...
Is hacking emails good or bad?
I suppose it depends on your point of view and your reasons for doing it.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 15:32:13
HElp me understand why people are glad that Murdoch 'corp' for hacking and why Wikileaks is the hero for hacking.
I am not trying to create a false equivalency here, I want to understand form you guys. It's one of the reason why I am havinga difficult time writing the blog.
Raine on 02/27/2012 15:32:13
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Serious questions:
Is the Murdoch hacking scandal and investigation a good thing? Why...
Is hacking emails good or bad?
I suppose it depends on your point of view and your reasons for doing it.
I am not trying to create a false equivalency here, I want to understand form you guys. It's one of the reason why I am havinga difficult time writing the blog.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 15:39:26
Raine on 02/27/2012 15:39:26
I hope Rick Santorum picks Kirk Cmeron for his VP....
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 15:44:00
I suppose one point to consider is whether there is a difference in the intent of the leakers and Murdoch's company. Murdoch's company spied on others to sell news, while Wikileaks sees their actions as uncovering the truth to support democracy and other principles. So, I guess the question of whether intent impacts the rightness or wrongness of actions is a key question.
Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 15:44:00
Quote by Raine:HElp me understand why people are glad that Murdoch 'corp' for hacking and why Wikileaks is the hero for hacking.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Serious questions:
Is the Murdoch hacking scandal and investigation a good thing? Why...
Is hacking emails good or bad?
I suppose it depends on your point of view and your reasons for doing it.
I am not trying to create a false equivalency here, I want to understand form you guys. It's one of the reason why I am havinga difficult time writing the blog.
I suppose one point to consider is whether there is a difference in the intent of the leakers and Murdoch's company. Murdoch's company spied on others to sell news, while Wikileaks sees their actions as uncovering the truth to support democracy and other principles. So, I guess the question of whether intent impacts the rightness or wrongness of actions is a key question.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 15:45:21
Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 15:45:21
By the way, it is my birthday today.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 15:47:11
HAPPY BIRTHDAY WILL!
I didn't know! (back to trying to write the blog)
Raine on 02/27/2012 15:47:11
Quote by Will in Chicago:
By the way, it is my birthday today.
I didn't know! (back to trying to write the blog)
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:53:19
I think intent is the best way to view it.
Joe Schmoe down the street has some tragedy may strike his family and puts him in the news spot light. Murdoch's company chooses to hack into the his life to find out any sorted details to publish and make money.
Billy Bob on the other side of the street is trafficking in kids to where ever and the cops or an investigator gets a lead to follow that causes them to have to get into his emails to get details that will save lives.
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:53:19
Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by Raine:HElp me understand why people are glad that Murdoch 'corp' for hacking and why Wikileaks is the hero for hacking.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Serious questions:
Is the Murdoch hacking scandal and investigation a good thing? Why...
Is hacking emails good or bad?
I suppose it depends on your point of view and your reasons for doing it.
I am not trying to create a false equivalency here, I want to understand form you guys. It's one of the reason why I am havinga difficult time writing the blog.
I suppose one point to consider is whether there is a difference in the intent of the leakers and Murdoch's company. Murdoch's company spied on others to sell news, while Wikileaks sees their actions as uncovering the truth to support democracy and other principles. So, I guess the question of whether intent impacts the rightness or wrongness of actions is a key question.
I think intent is the best way to view it.
Joe Schmoe down the street has some tragedy may strike his family and puts him in the news spot light. Murdoch's company chooses to hack into the his life to find out any sorted details to publish and make money.
Billy Bob on the other side of the street is trafficking in kids to where ever and the cops or an investigator gets a lead to follow that causes them to have to get into his emails to get details that will save lives.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:54:44
HAPPY B-DAY WILL!!!
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 15:54:44
Quote by Will in Chicago:
By the way, it is my birthday today.
HAPPY B-DAY WILL!!!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 16:00:47
Well, happy birthday good sir!
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 16:00:47
Quote by Will in Chicago:
By the way, it is my birthday today.
Well, happy birthday good sir!
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 16:01:27
Raine on 02/27/2012 16:01:27
But isn't accessing and publishing private email from people illegal?
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 16:01:40
That would be an amazing amount of stupid.
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 16:01:40
Quote by Raine:
I hope Rick Santorum picks Kirk Cmeron for his VP....
That would be an amazing amount of stupid.
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/27/2012 16:11:23
velveeta jones on 02/27/2012 16:11:23
Happy Birthday Will!!!
WooT!
WooT!
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 16:19:03
I don't think its protected like snail mail is. I think there is an expectation that it should be secure but I don't know what laws either in the US or globally actually protect email itself. The crime may be the act of hacking and not what they are accessing
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 16:19:03
Quote by Raine:
But isn't accessing and publishing private email from people illegal?
I don't think its protected like snail mail is. I think there is an expectation that it should be secure but I don't know what laws either in the US or globally actually protect email itself. The crime may be the act of hacking and not what they are accessing
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 16:36:51
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 16:36:51
Well, then Billy, in that case, I don't think I should have to pay for things I don't believe in.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 16:38:22
A greater issue beyond legality is morality. We have seen laws that condoned or supported immoral behavior, such as the laws allowing for slavery or the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany. So, we now have the debate between law and justice? Are there instances when breaking the law is moral? If so, under what circumstances. To me, a key question involves whether or not there is an issue of harm to an individual.
Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 16:38:22
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
But isn't accessing and publishing private email from people illegal?
I don't think its protected like snail mail is. I think there is an expectation that it should be secure but I don't know what laws either in the US or globally actually protect email itself. The crime may be the act of hacking and not what they are accessing
A greater issue beyond legality is morality. We have seen laws that condoned or supported immoral behavior, such as the laws allowing for slavery or the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany. So, we now have the debate between law and justice? Are there instances when breaking the law is moral? If so, under what circumstances. To me, a key question involves whether or not there is an issue of harm to an individual.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 16:40:27
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 16:40:27
You know the thing that pisses me off about Ricky the most is that he's has put his religon over anyone else's. I'm not Catholic. His belief system is not more important, nor is it more correct then my own (which is Protastant(sp), most notably Methodist).
He has dismissed my belief system and that is offensive.
He has dismissed my belief system and that is offensive.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 16:44:41
See I've never put laws and morals in the book. IMO laws are to be amoral, justice is a "moral" thing - although then it becomes who's version of morals do we use to seek justice.
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 16:44:41
Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
But isn't accessing and publishing private email from people illegal?
I don't think its protected like snail mail is. I think there is an expectation that it should be secure but I don't know what laws either in the US or globally actually protect email itself. The crime may be the act of hacking and not what they are accessing
A greater issue beyond legality is morality. We have seen laws that condoned or supported immoral behavior, such as the laws allowing for slavery or the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany. So, we now have the debate between law and justice? Are there instances when breaking the law is moral? If so, under what circumstances. To me, a key question involves whether or not there is an issue of harm to an individual.
See I've never put laws and morals in the book. IMO laws are to be amoral, justice is a "moral" thing - although then it becomes who's version of morals do we use to seek justice.
Comment by 
livingonli on 02/27/2012 16:48:07
livingonli on 02/27/2012 16:48:07
Good morning folks. Another day, another something in the mess that my life has become.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 16:52:23
Yes.
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 16:52:23
Quote by Raine:
But isn't accessing and publishing private email from people illegal?
Yes.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 17:00:35
Raine on 02/27/2012 17:00:35
You guys are really helping. I am sorry this is taking so long. I really appreciate the input.
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2012 17:00:54
livingonli on 02/27/2012 17:00:54
I think Pap is filling in for Ed today.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 17:01:59
This is why I always admired what JFK said about this issue and why what Santorum said is so offensive.
Raine on 02/27/2012 17:01:59
Quote by wickedpam:
You know the thing that pisses me off about Ricky the most is that he's has put his religon over anyone else's. I'm not Catholic. His belief system is not more important, nor is it more correct then my own (which is Protastant(sp), most notably Methodist).
He has dismissed my belief system and that is offensive.
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2012 17:08:35
livingonli on 02/27/2012 17:08:35
Never mind, I guess Pap is a guest on the show since Ed came on at the top.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 02/27/2012 17:11:30
Again, it's just so hypocritical of the Rethugs that after all the fuss about JFK taking orders from the Vatican, Frothy is just able to spew away.
We won't even mention that Frothy "pals around with" known child rapists and enablers. (yeah, I went there)
trojanrabbit on 02/27/2012 17:11:30
Quote by Raine:This is why I always admired what JFK said about this issue and why what Santorum said is so offensive.Quote by wickedpam:
You know the thing that pisses me off about Ricky the most is that he's has put his religon over anyone else's. I'm not Catholic. His belief system is not more important, nor is it more correct then my own (which is Protastant(sp), most notably Methodist).
He has dismissed my belief system and that is offensive.
Again, it's just so hypocritical of the Rethugs that after all the fuss about JFK taking orders from the Vatican, Frothy is just able to spew away.
We won't even mention that Frothy "pals around with" known child rapists and enablers. (yeah, I went there)
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 17:11:58
Morning Liv
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 17:11:58
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning folks. Another day, another something in the mess that my life has become.
Morning Liv
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 17:12:59
There is the saying that law is the handmaiden of justice. We have seen different approaches in people protesting unjust laws, allowing themselves to be imprisoned. (See the Civil Rights movement.) Others have deliberately broken laws that they have considered unjust.
I guess one issue is deciding what do we value, both as individuals and as a society or societies.
Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 17:12:59
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
But isn't accessing and publishing private email from people illegal?
I don't think its protected like snail mail is. I think there is an expectation that it should be secure but I don't know what laws either in the US or globally actually protect email itself. The crime may be the act of hacking and not what they are accessing
A greater issue beyond legality is morality. We have seen laws that condoned or supported immoral behavior, such as the laws allowing for slavery or the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany. So, we now have the debate between law and justice? Are there instances when breaking the law is moral? If so, under what circumstances. To me, a key question involves whether or not there is an issue of harm to an individual.
See I've never put laws and morals in the book. IMO laws are to be amoral, justice is a "moral" thing - although then it becomes who's version of morals do we use to seek justice.
There is the saying that law is the handmaiden of justice. We have seen different approaches in people protesting unjust laws, allowing themselves to be imprisoned. (See the Civil Rights movement.) Others have deliberately broken laws that they have considered unjust.
I guess one issue is deciding what do we value, both as individuals and as a society or societies.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 02/27/2012 17:19:54
WHAT SHE SAID
Anyway, the forklift finally arrived and my almost 6 ton chamber is off the truck. All they have to do now is get all the pieces in the elevator.
To whoever was supposed to get a shipment at noon today that will be at least 3 hours late.....sorry.
trojanrabbit on 02/27/2012 17:19:54
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Will in Chicago:
By the way, it is my birthday today.
HAPPY B-DAY WILL!!!
Anyway, the forklift finally arrived and my almost 6 ton chamber is off the truck. All they have to do now is get all the pieces in the elevator.
To whoever was supposed to get a shipment at noon today that will be at least 3 hours late.....sorry.
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 17:58:00
aaahh, I see what ya saying That makes sense
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 17:58:00
Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Will in Chicago:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
But isn't accessing and publishing private email from people illegal?
I don't think its protected like snail mail is. I think there is an expectation that it should be secure but I don't know what laws either in the US or globally actually protect email itself. The crime may be the act of hacking and not what they are accessing
A greater issue beyond legality is morality. We have seen laws that condoned or supported immoral behavior, such as the laws allowing for slavery or the Nuremberg Laws in Nazi Germany. So, we now have the debate between law and justice? Are there instances when breaking the law is moral? If so, under what circumstances. To me, a key question involves whether or not there is an issue of harm to an individual.
See I've never put laws and morals in the book. IMO laws are to be amoral, justice is a "moral" thing - although then it becomes who's version of morals do we use to seek justice.
There is the saying that law is the handmaiden of justice. We have seen different approaches in people protesting unjust laws, allowing themselves to be imprisoned. (See the Civil Rights movement.) Others have deliberately broken laws that they have considered unjust.
I guess one issue is deciding what do we value, both as individuals and as a society or societies.
aaahh, I see what ya saying
That makes sense
Comment by wickedpam on 02/27/2012 18:21:51
wickedpam on 02/27/2012 18:21:51
Did Thom just announce that he's moving to 3-6pm EST?
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2012 18:50:35
I missed that. SiriusXM and a number of progressive talkers like WWRL in New York have been airing him at 3-6 since they carry Ed's show live from Noon-3 although Free Speech TV airs Thom live from Noon-3. Although that could make it rough for the stations that air Thom at Noon and Randi live at 3. WWRL here also delays Randi to 6 PM.
livingonli on 02/27/2012 18:50:35
Quote by wickedpam:
Did Thom just announce that he's moving to 3-6pm EST?
I missed that. SiriusXM and a number of progressive talkers like WWRL in New York have been airing him at 3-6 since they carry Ed's show live from Noon-3 although Free Speech TV airs Thom live from Noon-3. Although that could make it rough for the stations that air Thom at Noon and Randi live at 3. WWRL here also delays Randi to 6 PM.
Comment by livingonli on 02/27/2012 18:51:45
livingonli on 02/27/2012 18:51:45
The only question is whether Dial Global would want it done since they syndicate both Ed and Thom.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 18:58:06
Raine on 02/27/2012 18:58:06
The blog has (finally) been posted.
Thank you you for the pre-emptive input!
Thank you you for the pre-emptive input!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:11:06
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:11:06
Anonymous shows their naiveté in how intelligence is gathered. For example, back when there was a Soviet Union a lot of information was gathered by the KGB by going to libraries and copying technical journal articles. I'm pretty sure the CIA would have been (and continues to) gathering intelligence the same way. To say that Strafor is a "shadow CIA' is hogwash.
Comment by Scoopster on 02/27/2012 19:14:03
Ze bloggie is dead - long live ze bloggie!
Scoopster on 02/27/2012 19:14:03
Quote by Raine:
The blog has (finally) been posted.
Thank you you for the pre-emptive input!
Ze bloggie is dead - long live ze bloggie!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:14:29
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:14:29
Behold the power of das Blog! We are having all kinds of network issues, but I still can get to 4F! 
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:15:53
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:15:53
BTW, Raine great blog! It was worth the wait.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 19:18:20
You should be able to read it, no? 
Raine on 02/27/2012 19:18:20
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The blog has (finally) been posted.
Thank you you for the pre-emptive input!
Ze bloggie is dead - long live ze bloggie!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:23:24
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:23:24
Personally, I think this totally awesome! I can't get to Google, Facebook, Salon, Wikipedia or Alternet. I still can get here. Bobber you are webcoding god!
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:23:55
I did.
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 19:23:55
Quote by Raine:You should be able to read it, no?Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The blog has (finally) been posted.
Thank you you for the pre-emptive input!
Ze bloggie is dead - long live ze bloggie!
I did.
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 19:30:07
Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 19:30:07
I would hope that there would be some truly important revelation in what WikiLeaks has done that would justify hacking someone else's database. (I can imagine only a few justifications, such as actions to save a life or to prevent a great wrong.)
Mind you, we may still learn something useful from this breach. But I wonder if it will do Anonymous more harm than good and do society more harm than good.
In other news, I am still waiting to hear about my car. (I had to refuse some assignments today.) However, I am enjoying the change of pace.
Maybe we should tune into Filter Free Radio to see if Jacob Dean has any thoughts on Thom Hartmann's move?
Mind you, we may still learn something useful from this breach. But I wonder if it will do Anonymous more harm than good and do society more harm than good.
In other news, I am still waiting to hear about my car. (I had to refuse some assignments today.) However, I am enjoying the change of pace.
Maybe we should tune into Filter Free Radio to see if Jacob Dean has any thoughts on Thom Hartmann's move?
Comment by 
BobR on 02/27/2012 19:53:43
It's called "flying under the radar"
BobR on 02/27/2012 19:53:43
Quote by Mondobubba:
Personally, I think this totally awesome! I can't get to Google, Facebook, Salon, Wikipedia or Alternet. I still can get here. Bobber you are webcoding god!
It's called "flying under the radar"
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 19:55:53
My concern in this blog is not the content -- it's more the means by which the content was procured.
Journalists use anonymous sources all the time. If those sources are not reliable -- the reputation of the journalist is likely to become forever tarnished. In other words,Journalist have control over the story. This is more of a case of hacking, stealing information -- as I said -- based on what? a hunch?
StratFor as a company is nothing like Blackwater/XE, KBR or Halliburton. The are not military contractors.
Raine on 02/27/2012 19:55:53
Quote by Will in Chicago:
I would hope that there would be some truly important revelation in what WikiLeaks has done that would justify hacking someone else's database. (I can imagine only a few justifications, such as actions to save a life or to prevent a great wrong.)
Mind you, we may still learn something useful from this breach. But I wonder if it will do Anonymous more harm than good and do society more harm than good.
In other news, I am still waiting to hear about my car. (I had to refuse some assignments today.) However, I am enjoying the change of pace.
Maybe we should tune into Filter Free Radio to see if Jacob Dean has any thoughts on Thom Hartmann's move?
Journalists use anonymous sources all the time. If those sources are not reliable -- the reputation of the journalist is likely to become forever tarnished. In other words,Journalist have control over the story. This is more of a case of hacking, stealing information -- as I said -- based on what? a hunch?
StratFor as a company is nothing like Blackwater/XE, KBR or Halliburton. The are not military contractors.
Comment by Scoopster on 02/27/2012 19:56:25
Oh I did - I'm just bein' silly
Scoopster on 02/27/2012 19:56:25
Quote by Raine:You should be able to read it, no?Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The blog has (finally) been posted.
Thank you you for the pre-emptive input!
Ze bloggie is dead - long live ze bloggie!
Oh I did - I'm just bein' silly
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 19:57:18
I'm so dense sometimes! 
Raine on 02/27/2012 19:57:18
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:You should be able to read it, no?Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The blog has (finally) been posted.
Thank you you for the pre-emptive input!
Ze bloggie is dead - long live ze bloggie!
Oh I did - I'm just bein' silly
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 20:19:59
Modesty!
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 20:19:59
Quote by BobR:Quote by Mondobubba:
Personally, I think this totally awesome! I can't get to Google, Facebook, Salon, Wikipedia or Alternet. I still can get here. Bobber you are webcoding god!
It's called "flying under the radar"
Modesty!
Comment by Scoopster on 02/27/2012 20:43:57
Scoopster on 02/27/2012 20:43:57
Comment by Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 20:47:54
It is right to be concerned about the means used to secure this information. In some cases, I can see taking extraordinary measures to gain information. I just wonder if there is ANYTHING in these e-mails that would give any reasonable excuse to hack into a database. Even if there is, this should not be a regular tactic.
I am curious about the information, but I wonder what might come out of this entire affair.
Will in Chicago on 02/27/2012 20:47:54
Quote by Raine:My concern in this blog is not the content -- it's more the means by which the content was procured.Quote by Will in Chicago:
I would hope that there would be some truly important revelation in what WikiLeaks has done that would justify hacking someone else's database. (I can imagine only a few justifications, such as actions to save a life or to prevent a great wrong.)
Mind you, we may still learn something useful from this breach. But I wonder if it will do Anonymous more harm than good and do society more harm than good.
In other news, I am still waiting to hear about my car. (I had to refuse some assignments today.) However, I am enjoying the change of pace.
Maybe we should tune into Filter Free Radio to see if Jacob Dean has any thoughts on Thom Hartmann's move?
Journalists use anonymous sources all the time. If those sources are not reliable -- the reputation of the journalist is likely to become forever tarnished. In other words,Journalist have control over the story. This is more of a case of hacking, stealing information -- as I said -- based on what? a hunch?
StratFor as a company is nothing like Blackwater/XE, KBR or Halliburton. The are not military contractors.
It is right to be concerned about the means used to secure this information. In some cases, I can see taking extraordinary measures to gain information. I just wonder if there is ANYTHING in these e-mails that would give any reasonable excuse to hack into a database. Even if there is, this should not be a regular tactic.
I am curious about the information, but I wonder what might come out of this entire affair.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 20:50:01
I will be alerting my brother, he has lots of time on his hands to campaign for him.
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 20:50:01
Quote by Scoopster:
Bob Kerrey is running to reclaim his Senate seat in Nebraska
I will be alerting my brother, he has lots of time on his hands to campaign for him.
Comment by BobR on 02/27/2012 21:02:31
Interesting - he currently works for the company I work for.
BobR on 02/27/2012 21:02:31
Quote by Scoopster:
Bob Kerrey is running to reclaim his Senate seat in Nebraska
Interesting - he currently works for the company I work for.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 21:06:34
On your rare in office days, is he hanging on the coffee room telling war stories?
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 21:06:34
Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:
Bob Kerrey is running to reclaim his Senate seat in Nebraska
Interesting - he currently works for the company I work for.
On your rare in office days, is he hanging on the coffee room telling war stories?
Comment by BobR on 02/27/2012 21:09:23
The corporate offices are elsewhere. More info
BobR on 02/27/2012 21:09:23
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:
Bob Kerrey is running to reclaim his Senate seat in Nebraska
Interesting - he currently works for the company I work for.
On your rare in office days, is he hanging on the coffee room telling war stories?
The corporate offices are elsewhere. More info
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 22:13:09
Raine on 02/27/2012 22:13:09
Ugh-- Randi is talking about that despicable Representative Albo. I posted this over the weekend.
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 22:16:46
So to answer my whimsical question the answer would be no. :mutters about literal minded IT weenies ruining what could have been funny:
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 22:16:46
Quote by BobR:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:
Bob Kerrey is running to reclaim his Senate seat in Nebraska
Interesting - he currently works for the company I work for.
On your rare in office days, is he hanging on the coffee room telling war stories?
The corporate offices are elsewhere. More info
So to answer my whimsical question the answer would be no. :mutters about literal minded IT weenies ruining what could have been funny:
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/27/2012 22:17:18
velveeta jones on 02/27/2012 22:17:18
Hey what's the deal with the new Google privacy rules coming out? Should I be more terrified than usual?
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 22:17:21
Which ass is he again?
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 22:17:21
Quote by Raine:
Ugh-- Randi is talking about that despicable Representative Albo. I posted this over the weekend.
Which ass is he again?
Comment by Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 22:18:39
Yes totally terified. Google is everywhere (literally with the Google Earth Car)
Mondobubba on 02/27/2012 22:18:39
Quote by velveeta jones:
Hey what's the deal with the new Google privacy rules coming out? Should I be more terrified than usual?
Yes totally terified. Google is everywhere (literally with the Google Earth Car)
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 22:21:42
THIS. HE'sa disgusting pig.
Raine on 02/27/2012 22:21:42
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
Ugh-- Randi is talking about that despicable Representative Albo. I posted this over the weekend.
Which ass is he again?
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 22:23:26
Raine on 02/27/2012 22:23:26
For everyone to watch in all it's pathetic disgusting glory.
Comment by Raine on 02/27/2012 22:33:00
Raine on 02/27/2012 22:33:00
Mala. Dunno if you had a chance to see this link I posted on the FCrack, but I wanted to share it with you here. Sadly Burppe anda few tomatoes that I have loved are on the list.
So I am searching for Non-Monsanto seeds and plants for the garden this year. I found this, and I thought you might be interested.
So I am searching for Non-Monsanto seeds and plants for the garden this year. I found this, and I thought you might be interested.
Comment by velveeta jones on 02/27/2012 22:39:16
Ooo..kay... adding another layer of tin foil.
Damn.
velveeta jones on 02/27/2012 22:39:16
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by velveeta jones:
Hey what's the deal with the new Google privacy rules coming out? Should I be more terrified than usual?
Yes totally terified. Google is everywhere (literally with the Google Earth Car)
Ooo..kay... adding another layer of tin foil.
Damn.
Comment by 
TriSec on 02/28/2012 01:26:50
Hey folks. Can we do anything about Websense listing the site as "Social Networking" when we are clearly News and Media?
TriSec on 02/28/2012 01:26:50
Quote by BobR:
It's called "flying under the radar"
Hey folks. Can we do anything about Websense listing the site as "Social Networking" when we are clearly News and Media?
Comment by BobR on 02/28/2012 13:46:30
According to the WebSense site, our blog is categorized as "Blogs & Forums".
BobR on 02/28/2012 13:46:30
Quote by TriSec:Quote by BobR:
It's called "flying under the radar"
Hey folks. Can we do anything about Websense listing the site as "Social Networking" when we are clearly News and Media?
According to the WebSense site, our blog is categorized as "Blogs & Forums".