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Nine Years
Author: BobR    Date: 09/24/2014 11:21:21

It was 9 years ago today that many of the members of this blog met in person for the first time. Back then, this blog did not yet exist - we were members of another blog and message forum and had been conversing online for a while. We met up in DC with about 250,000 other people to protest the wars in the Middle East (in particular - the undeclared war of choice in Iraq).

At that point, we were nearly 4 years in Afghanistan, and 2 years in Iraq. We were protesting the destruction of another sovereign nation, the reports of torture, the notion that every citizen in Iraq was suspect, the money wasted, the American lives wasted and used. We marched, we chanted, we flipped off the White House. There were no riots or tear gas or burned flags. The numbers of attendees were under-reported, and the ultimate result was probably nothing.

That was 9 years ago.

Fast-forward to now. For kids younger than 14, We have always been at war in East Asia in the Middle East. We have removed most of our troops, but - like Germany and Japan - we will always maintain a presence there. Nine years ago, as our troops came home in body bags (purposely unseen by the public) and on prosthetic legs, the pro and anti war crowds could at least find some agreement that the proper way to have done this was using targeted strikes and special ops. There was no need for a massive invading ground force. There would be no end to the war because there was no country to surrender. These were (and are) a stateless force of nihilists.

So now as we sit on the 9 year anniversary of that massive protest, we are given the news that we have a new enemy, and that we will be fighting it in a new country - ISIS (or ISIL if you prefer to be accurate) in Syria. As a nation weary of war, and the physical, monetary, and spiritual costs that war exacts, there is naturally concern, angst, and anger, sparking protests on the anniversary of the original one. What right do we have to do this? What right do we have to kill innocents on the ground or Americans that might be fighting with them without due process? When and how does this all end?

Those are all good questions without easy answers. Syria has apparently given the "OK" to bomb ISIS inside Syrian borders. Among those targeted was a group poised to carry out some sort of strike against the U.S.. There are some, of course, who don't believe that. There are some who see President Obama as a warmonger, which most people know is absurd. There are times when a military response is unfortunately necessary. Diplomacy isn't really an option with this group - they have nothing to lose except their lives, and don't seem too concerned about losing that.

During the leadup to WWII, America as a whole was isolationist. FDR had to use all his finesse to get America used to the idea of engaging in another bloody conflict in an area of the world that "didn't concern us". The spiritual grandparents of today's protesters were voicing the same opposition then that protesters of today do. It took Germany declaring war on us before we got involved. During that interim, hundreds of thousands of innocent people were murdered by the Nazi regime, and facing little real opposition, it grew stronger every year. Imagine the lives that could have been saved on all sides of the conflict if we had taken on that insanity before the flame had grown to a conflagration that engulfed all of Europe.

This is where we sit today. A maniacal murderous horde, driven by an absolutist ideology, is trying to establish an empire in lands that are part of other sovereign nations. They are stealing everything of value, destroying the rest in their wake, and committing genocide. How many innocents must die, how much of the Middle East must they occupy before those who protest against these targeted strikes grudgingly agree that these groups are a cancer on humanity that must be eradicated as much as possible?

The tactics being used are the proper ones. There is no need to put "boots on the ground" and risk the lives of our soldiers. There is no need to destroy the infrastructure of a nation. We are using targeted strikes to decimate ISIS while minimizing the loss of life of innocent civilians. There is no point in capturing "enemy combatants" and warehousing them in Gitmo. The much-maligned drones are being used perform the same function as helicopters or planes, but at a much lower financial cost, and with no risk to American lives. We are working with our allies. Even France is on-board with this, which should give some credence to the purported danger we face.

We are fighting this growing threat the way that we always said we should (and the way that President Obama said he would when he originally campaigned back in 2008). This is the best compromise between the colonialism of Dubya and isolationism. I don't like war, but sometimes there are those who force our hand. In this case, it seems, we've learned the lessons of WWII, and are trying to stop the virus from spreading.
 

32 comments (Latest Comment: 09/24/2014 20:28:20 by Will in Chicago)
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Comment by Mondobubba on 09/24/2014 11:52:54
Good morning? I am so weary of this mess of Bush's making. But hey we have a "controversy" about disrespectful saluting to keep us fired up.

Comment by wickedpam on 09/24/2014 12:58:41
Morning

Comment by Raine on 09/24/2014 13:30:33
Quote by Mondobubba:
Good morning? I am so weary of this mess of Bush's making. But hey we have a "controversy" about disrespectful saluting to keep us fired up.

I am still trying to recover from this:


http://binaryapi.ap.org/5133963ec23f44de8e7c6711e4da8be5/512x.jpg


:coffee: good morning!

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/24/2014 13:32:43
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Good morning? I am so weary of this mess of Bush's making. But hey we have a "controversy" about disrespectful saluting to keep us fired up.

I am still trying to recover from this:


http://binaryapi.ap.org/5133963ec23f44de8e7c6711e4da8be5/512x.jpg


:coffee: good morning!



Barney looks so damn happy.

Comment by Scoopster on 09/24/2014 13:38:05
Mornin' all..

RIP Barney ; ; You were a much better man than your master.

I finished sorting through my old Photobucket account. I have a bunch of pics from the 2004 RNC march, but unfortunately nothing from the 2005 DC one.

Comment by trojanrabbit on 09/24/2014 14:29:51
Morning all. Sitting at the eye surgery center while Mrs Rabbit gets her cataract surgery done.

We got in the Volvo this morning and the Mrs rolled down the window to say hi to a neighbor. It came back up very crooked. So off for a quick trip to my mechanic to make an appointment, cover up the window and make the trip in the Heatless Honda. I think the Volvo is whining for attention since I just gave the Honda half of a new exhaust system.

I have a couple of Facebook friends up in arms about Salutegate. Saying that Eisenhower didn't salute and Dumbya had his dog in his arms didn't seem to matter.

Comment by BobR on 09/24/2014 14:48:08
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Morning all. Sitting at the eye surgery center while Mrs Rabbit gets her cataract surgery done.

We got in the Volvo this morning and the Mrs rolled down the window to say hi to a neighbor. It came back up very crooked. So off for a quick trip to my mechanic to make an appointment, cover up the window and make the trip in the Heatless Honda. I think the Volvo is whining for attention since I just gave the Honda half of a new exhaust system.

I have a couple of Facebook friends up in arms about Salutegate. Saying that Eisenhower didn't salute and Dumbya had his dog in his arms didn't seem to matter.

Sorry about your auto troubles.

Regarding your friends: IOKIYAR

Comment by trojanrabbit on 09/24/2014 14:53:10
Quote by BobR:
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Morning all. Sitting at the eye surgery center while Mrs Rabbit gets her cataract surgery done.

We got in the Volvo this morning and the Mrs rolled down the window to say hi to a neighbor. It came back up very crooked. So off for a quick trip to my mechanic to make an appointment, cover up the window and make the trip in the Heatless Honda. I think the Volvo is whining for attention since I just gave the Honda half of a new exhaust system.

I have a couple of Facebook friends up in arms about Salutegate. Saying that Eisenhower didn't salute and Dumbya had his dog in his arms didn't seem to matter.

Sorry about your auto troubles.

Regarding your friends: IOKIYAR


And these are HS classmates of mine. At least there's hope for one. He posted one of those photos showing Obama with his feet on the Oval Office desk and he was incensed at the nerve of one who'd do that. I suggested he Google president foot on desk and he apologized.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/24/2014 14:53:45
Good morning, bloggers!

I am not sure if there is any solution to the problem George W. Bush and Dick Cheney unleashed in the Middle East. We may deal with the aftermath of the Iraq War for generations.

The interview with the local staffing agency went well. I should ideally have a car soon as well. So, this should help the job search. (Still checking out East.)

Trojanrabbit, my best to Mrs. Rabbit.

I will likely be out tomorrow as tonight marks Rosh Hashanah 5775. May we all be inscribed for a sweet year and may this year be better than the last.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/24/2014 14:59:46
Comment by Scoopster on 09/24/2014 15:31:26
Comment by BobR on 09/24/2014 15:40:42
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Paul Waldman has a piece on what could go wrong in fighting ISIL.

I appreciate that plan A may have problems and require a plan B. I assume that despite public reassurances that it won't be necessary, there definitely is a plan B.

I wonder what the author would suggest as an alternative?

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/24/2014 15:41:02
Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/24/2014 15:43:05
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Paul Waldman has a piece on what could go wrong in fighting ISIL.

I appreciate that plan A may have problems and require a plan B. I assume that despite public reassurances that it won't be necessary, there definitely is a plan B.

I wonder what the author would suggest as an alternative?


He really hasn't. I would suggest that we may have to do something that has the added benefit of driving Lindsey Graham and John McCain nuts -- talk to Iran about cooperating with them to stop ISIL. If we could talk the Soviet Union with hydrogen bombs aimed at us, I fail to see why we can't talk to Iran in a matter of mutual self-interest. (Of course, having Senator Graham retire to the fainting couch would be a side benefit.)



Comment by TriSec on 09/24/2014 16:58:27
[protocol droid]

Salute gate has 2 strikes right out of the gate.

1. As a civilian, it is actually improper to render a military salute to a uniformed serviceman.

2. Lesser officers salute superiors. As C-in-C, the President is not actually obligated to salute anyone.

Presidents did not routinely salute their honour guard until Reagan started this 'tradition'.

[/protocol droid]

And yes, I actually DO wear a uniform and I am hardcore on proper protocols and decorum.

Comment by livingonli on 09/24/2014 17:00:11
I still remember standing out in the freezing cold to protest the build-up to the war in February, 2003 on the streets of Manhattan in the bitter cold. I think we had as many if not more than the number of people at the climate change march.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/24/2014 17:00:53


Good. I find the board cowardly and frightening. I guess by their logic, the Founding Fathers should not be covered as they fought against a legitimate authority called the British Empire far more violently than the Civil Rights movement protested other injustices. Or possibly the board members believe that "legitimate authority" can do no wrong.



Comment by Mondobubba on 09/24/2014 17:05:08
Quote by TriSec:
[protocol droid]

Salute gate has 2 strikes right out of the gate.

1. As a civilian, it is actually improper to render a military salute to a uniformed serviceman.

2. Lesser officers salute superiors. As C-in-C, the President is not actually obligated to salute anyone.

Presidents did not routinely salute their honour guard until Reagan started this 'tradition'.

[/protocol droid]

And yes, I actually DO wear a uniform and I am hardcore on proper protocols and decorum.



I didn't know it was St. Ronnie of Santa Barbara who started that.
Did know about the inferiors saluting superiors.
Didn't know about civilians not being bound by military courtesy.



Comment by Raine on 09/24/2014 17:37:33
Quote by TriSec:
[protocol droid]

Salute gate has 2 strikes right out of the gate.

1. As a civilian, it is actually improper to render a military salute to a uniformed serviceman.

2. Lesser officers salute superiors. As C-in-C, the President is not actually obligated to salute anyone.

Presidents did not routinely salute their honour guard until Reagan started this 'tradition'.

[/protocol droid]

And yes, I actually DO wear a uniform and I am hardcore on proper protocols and decorum.
Thank god the black president wasn't wearing a tan suit on top of it all….

Comment by Scoopster on 09/24/2014 17:46:26
Quote by Raine:
Quote by TriSec:
[protocol droid]

Salute gate has 2 strikes right out of the gate.

1. As a civilian, it is actually improper to render a military salute to a uniformed serviceman.

2. Lesser officers salute superiors. As C-in-C, the President is not actually obligated to salute anyone.

Presidents did not routinely salute their honour guard until Reagan started this 'tradition'.

[/protocol droid]

And yes, I actually DO wear a uniform and I am hardcore on proper protocols and decorum.
Thank god the black president wasn't wearing a tan suit on top of it all….

Hey that would've made sense should the latte have spilled during the salute!

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/24/2014 17:47:56
In more sad news, a Frenchman is reported to have been beheaded in Algeria by a group claiming allegiance to ISIL.

In some good news, the threat to publish nude photos of Emma Watson was a hoax. Of course, this seemed credible as there are many creeps online. Ironically, it may have helped boost attention to Miss Watson's call for gender equality.

Comment by Raine on 09/24/2014 17:50:05
Quote by Scoopster:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by TriSec:
[protocol droid]

Salute gate has 2 strikes right out of the gate.

1. As a civilian, it is actually improper to render a military salute to a uniformed serviceman.

2. Lesser officers salute superiors. As C-in-C, the President is not actually obligated to salute anyone.

Presidents did not routinely salute their honour guard until Reagan started this 'tradition'.

[/protocol droid]

And yes, I actually DO wear a uniform and I am hardcore on proper protocols and decorum.
Thank god the black president wasn't wearing a tan suit on top of it all….

Hey that would've made sense should the latte have spilled during the salute!



Comment by Raine on 09/24/2014 18:16:18
Comment by Mondobubba on 09/24/2014 19:21:46


I'll be in my fainting couch whimpering.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/24/2014 19:55:26



The folks at ALEC must be reaching for the antacid today.


Comment by Raine on 09/24/2014 20:03:10
Quote by Mondobubba:


I'll be in my fainting couch whimpering.
???


Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/24/2014 20:06:20
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:


I'll be in my fainting couch whimpering.
???



Did someone use Outlook to do something hideous?

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/24/2014 20:13:39
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:


I'll be in my fainting couch whimpering.
???



No, I was working a new thing for me. Complaint tickets. The one I had took a little over 2 hours to do.

Comment by trojanrabbit on 09/24/2014 20:26:47
We are home after Mrs Rabbit's surgery. OK so far. Lots of drops to take for the next 4 weeks.

Now to see how much it will take to get the Volvo fixed.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/24/2014 20:28:20
Quote by trojanrabbit:
We are home after Mrs Rabbit's surgery. OK so far. Lots of drops to take for the next 4 weeks.

Now to see how much it will take to get the Volvo fixed.



Glad to hear that Mrs. Rabbit is home. Be well!