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Keeping our Options Open
Author: BobR
Date: 12/09/2009 13:24:27
When the notion of health care reform was first tossed around, the precepts were simple: everyone in this country should have access to affordable health care. The mechanics of how that was going to be accomplished were the subject of considerable disagreement, but it seemed that everyone agreed on the goals. Some people pushed for "socialized medicine", and some pushed for a "single-payer" system. What Congress went for instead is a system of more tightly regulated private insurance. The big question: does the system they're trying to create meet the simple goal of affordable health care for everyone?
Initially, it might have. The idea was to force insurance companies to compete in a marketplace, with a public option included in the market place to prevent "back door deals" and price fixing. The public option was also there for the "uninsurable", those that the insurance companies wouldn't insure at any price. The legislation was also put in place to prevent insurance companies from dropping customers or raising their rates when they got sick.
The regulations and market place seem to still be on the table... for now. The embattled public option, however, seems to be on life support. It has the unenviable position of being ground-zero for a political ideological battle. Those on the left claim it's essential. Those on the right claim it's "socialism" or the first step toward it. With all the smoke in the air, everyone seems to be losing focus of what that public option was supposed to accomplish.
There's been talk of a deal in Senate committees of replacing the public option with Medicare. On the surface, that's not a bad idea. My original idea for health care reform was to provide Medicare to EVERYONE for free, with an option for a tax credit if you "opt out" to buy private health insurance. But still - instead of creating a new government program for providing health insurance, why not use the one that's already there? It's actually kind of brilliant...
Except... the plan isn't to use it exactly as a replacement for the public option. It will only be available to those 55 and older. Supposedly, that's a large segment of those in need of this type of coverage - the older unemployed with age-related medical conditions. Unfortunately, it does nothing to help those between college and age 55 that are uninsurable. Once again - a great idea, poorly executed.
There are claims from Harry Reid that the public option is not dead. I have my doubts. Too many people are digging their toes in the sand on ideological grounds to be able to compromise for the good of the American people. The contributions from insurance companies aren't helping.
Personally, I am both ideological and pragmatic. I would love a socialized medicine system like they have in England. I would have been very happy with a single-payer system like they have in Canada. I would have been happy enough with any system that ensures that all Americans have access to affordable health care and don't have to stop and do the math before deciding whether they can afford to go to the doctor or the hospital.
Will the system we end up with meet that goal? I doubt it. From a pragmatic standpoint, I understand that sometimes it takes several steps to reach a goal. I would've preferred, however, that the first step be a bit larger than it seems we are going to be making.
Initially, it might have. The idea was to force insurance companies to compete in a marketplace, with a public option included in the market place to prevent "back door deals" and price fixing. The public option was also there for the "uninsurable", those that the insurance companies wouldn't insure at any price. The legislation was also put in place to prevent insurance companies from dropping customers or raising their rates when they got sick.
The regulations and market place seem to still be on the table... for now. The embattled public option, however, seems to be on life support. It has the unenviable position of being ground-zero for a political ideological battle. Those on the left claim it's essential. Those on the right claim it's "socialism" or the first step toward it. With all the smoke in the air, everyone seems to be losing focus of what that public option was supposed to accomplish.
There's been talk of a deal in Senate committees of replacing the public option with Medicare. On the surface, that's not a bad idea. My original idea for health care reform was to provide Medicare to EVERYONE for free, with an option for a tax credit if you "opt out" to buy private health insurance. But still - instead of creating a new government program for providing health insurance, why not use the one that's already there? It's actually kind of brilliant...
Except... the plan isn't to use it exactly as a replacement for the public option. It will only be available to those 55 and older. Supposedly, that's a large segment of those in need of this type of coverage - the older unemployed with age-related medical conditions. Unfortunately, it does nothing to help those between college and age 55 that are uninsurable. Once again - a great idea, poorly executed.
There are claims from Harry Reid that the public option is not dead. I have my doubts. Too many people are digging their toes in the sand on ideological grounds to be able to compromise for the good of the American people. The contributions from insurance companies aren't helping.
Personally, I am both ideological and pragmatic. I would love a socialized medicine system like they have in England. I would have been very happy with a single-payer system like they have in Canada. I would have been happy enough with any system that ensures that all Americans have access to affordable health care and don't have to stop and do the math before deciding whether they can afford to go to the doctor or the hospital.
Will the system we end up with meet that goal? I doubt it. From a pragmatic standpoint, I understand that sometimes it takes several steps to reach a goal. I would've preferred, however, that the first step be a bit larger than it seems we are going to be making.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
velveeta jones on 12/09/2009 13:33:12
velveeta jones on 12/09/2009 13:33:12
Well, I'm a cynic so of course I do believe that our Dems have failed us. The public option is dead. But, oh goody, Medicare may be lowered to age 55. Yay.
Comment by 
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 13:49:32
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 13:49:32
Morning 
Seriously, How do me manage to trip over our own selves trying to help people and end up taking a header down the stairs?
If there is no public option, then there is no bill. Scrape it a start over. And once again the Repub's win by just screaming the loudest.
Seriously, How do me manage to trip over our own selves trying to help people and end up taking a header down the stairs?
If there is no public option, then there is no bill. Scrape it a start over. And once again the Repub's win by just screaming the loudest.
Comment by 
Raine on 12/09/2009 14:28:19
Raine on 12/09/2009 14:28:19
I am really quite pissed at the Senate right now. REALLY REALLY pissed -- I want more details, and I am tired of these 'leaks'.
Good Morning...
Good Morning...
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 14:31:11
Sigh.... I remember when health care WAS available to everyone. Yeah, it used to be so.
Nobody is even talking about going back to where it used to work, and THEN trying another path, because the last path sure as heck didn't work.
On other notes....
velveeta, good to see you posting here. Thought you'd disappeared in to never never land. I'm still at al.from.wv@hotmail.com if you wanna. I've torqued several people off over the last year or so, though, so maybe you don't.
Pam, hey there, hope all is well. Had to move to the other side of town, so I'm in the People's Republic of Maryland now. Still, coffee at some point... maybe with our two new arrivals.... same email if that sounds interesting.
Nobody is even talking about going back to where it used to work, and THEN trying another path, because the last path sure as heck didn't work.
On other notes....
velveeta, good to see you posting here. Thought you'd disappeared in to never never land. I'm still at al.from.wv@hotmail.com if you wanna. I've torqued several people off over the last year or so, though, so maybe you don't.
Pam, hey there, hope all is well. Had to move to the other side of town, so I'm in the People's Republic of Maryland now. Still, coffee at some point... maybe with our two new arrivals.... same email if that sounds interesting.
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 14:31:49
Raine on 12/09/2009 14:31:49
That said-- last night on TRMS, Senator Sanders seemed to be rather positive about the Senate bill, and I tend to trust him. I am so friggin confused, right now.
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 14:35:18
Raine on 12/09/2009 14:35:18
I went to one of my favorite blogs regarding HCR, what do you think?
[...] The option to buy into Medicare below age 65. if its affordable, is probably the solution we should have had all along. Medicare is a known commodity, for good or for ill, and seniors like it. Tweaking Medicare to get rid of the waste and fraud could make it an awesome insurance option, and in a few years we can just let people 45-54 buy in, and so on down the line, without a lot of controversy.
I hope this passes for several reasons. First, I’m tired of the entire debate. Second, the longer it goes on, the more polluted the political climate becomes for anything else. Third, Obama has used up pretty much all of his political capital on this, and we still have jobs and the economy to go — not to mention cap-and-trade. Fourth, and most important, it’s a good solution to the problem. It’s a shame that the solution itself is so far down the list of priorities. But it’s telling that the debate has gone on so long that the issues have been superseded by the potential impact of reform or no reform on everything else Obama hopes to do.
Let’s hope this really is a viable option, and that it allows us to put the health care reform debate behind us.
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 14:36:18
AL!
Howdy neighbor!
Raine on 12/09/2009 14:36:18
Quote by Al from WV:
Sigh.... I remember when health care WAS available to everyone. Yeah, it used to be so.
Nobody is even talking about going back to where it used to work, and THEN trying another path, because the last path sure as heck didn't work.
On other notes....
velveeta, good to see you posting here. Thought you'd disappeared in to never never land. I'm still at al.from.wv@hotmail.com if you wanna. I've torqued several people off over the last year or so, though, so maybe you don't.
Pam, hey there, hope all is well. Had to move to the other side of town, so I'm in the People's Republic of Maryland now. Still, coffee at some point... maybe with our two new arrivals.... same email if that sounds interesting.
Howdy neighbor!
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2009 14:36:30
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 14:36:30
AL! 
Definatly have to work that out!
Definatly have to work that out!
Comment by 
BobR on 12/09/2009 14:38:26
BobR on 12/09/2009 14:38:26
welcome to the blog Al!
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 14:39:05
Raine on 12/09/2009 14:39:05
That said, if kids can still stay on their parents insurance till the age of 27, and then opt into medicare at 55 that closes a big window. We still have a hellova donut hole.
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 14:41:47
OK, that smilie icon you're using... I don't know, Bob, I just don't know about you.
(chuckle)
Quote by BobR:
welcome to the blog Al!
OK, that smilie icon you're using... I don't know, Bob, I just don't know about you.
(chuckle)
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 14:45:09
I know it's off the subject, please forgive me, but it seems that what we started off as "the board" pretty much landed here. Board's about dead. What the heck. Not a complaint, just an observation.
Anyway, tired of the children I have to try to talk around at "the other place" so I guess I'll be here more. Hope to be more active on my blog, too. Time, gotta have more time.
Good to see all you guys...
Anyway, tired of the children I have to try to talk around at "the other place" so I guess I'll be here more. Hope to be more active on my blog, too. Time, gotta have more time.
Good to see all you guys...
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 14:48:14
Raine on 12/09/2009 14:48:14
Say Tri-- I just read MArtha Coakley won the Primary in your commonwealth -- waiting for some commentary.
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 14:50:51
Raine on 12/09/2009 14:50:51
It is time for me to start working on the holiday cards for the year... 
Where does the time go?
Where does the time go?
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2009 14:52:54
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 14:52:54
Nothing "off topic" in the blog - we tend to drive the bus into some ditches from time to time
Suppose it depends on the day if we're more active
Suppose it depends on the day if we're more active
Comment by BobR on 12/09/2009 14:53:46
The board pretty much ended up being 6 regulars (you, me, LR, KFB, and occasionally Becky and TriSec). Without more participation from other people, it's gotten kind of dull. There's also been a lot of upheaval in the routine for a month now, and I'm just now starting to settle into a new routine.
This blog tends to be much more light-weight and random, and then there's facecrack...
BobR on 12/09/2009 14:53:46
Quote by Al from WV:
I know it's off the subject, please forgive me, but it seems that what we started off as "the board" pretty much landed here. Board's about dead. What the heck. Not a complaint, just an observation.
Anyway, tired of the children I have to try to talk around at "the other place" so I guess I'll be here more. Hope to be more active on my blog, too. Time, gotta have more time.
Good to see all you guys...
The board pretty much ended up being 6 regulars (you, me, LR, KFB, and occasionally Becky and TriSec). Without more participation from other people, it's gotten kind of dull. There's also been a lot of upheaval in the routine for a month now, and I'm just now starting to settle into a new routine.
This blog tends to be much more light-weight and random, and then there's facecrack...
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2009 14:54:06
Is this a hint for me to pass out names?
hitting the randomizer then sending them out
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 14:54:06
Quote by Raine:
So is everyone in for the Blogger Joe?
Is this a hint for me to pass out names?
hitting the randomizer then sending them out
Comment by BobR on 12/09/2009 14:54:52
Don't you mean CHRISTmas cards???
::Bill O'Reilly::
BobR on 12/09/2009 14:54:52
Quote by Raine:
It is time for me to start working on the holiday cards for the year...
Don't you mean CHRISTmas cards???
::Bill O'Reilly::
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 15:01:01
Honestly, I'd rather see insurance out of most of the picture altogether. Using insurance as a routine thing is essentially betting against yourself, and it's an uneven bet.
If we bet on who wins a baseball game Rainey, you put a buck in the hat, I put a buck in the hat, and whoever wins gets what's in the hat.
If there's odds involved, you put a buck in, I put (maybe) 3 bucks in, if it's 3:1.
In insurance, you put $x per month, they don't put squat in, and if you "win" (i.e. the bad thing happens, yeah, you "win" when the bad thing happens) then you get their side of the odds, they say, by contract, with lots of small print.... the concept, as it is practiced, is BS.
It's even more BS when we try to use the same "bet" concept to pay for things we know will happen.
Gotta be a better way than paying a company to use our money to make their money, and hoping they will give us some back when something we know is gonna happen (like an annual physical) happens.
Insurance for known things, i.e. for anything other than catastrophic or non-plannable events (did I spell that right?) is, in my mind, BS.
Gotta be a better way. Gotta be.
I grew up in a rural place, where there were LOTS of people who didn't have squat. Hell, my parents sometimes didn't eat for day or two so they could feed me. Damned if that ever stopped them from dragging me to Doc Hancock or dragging themselves to Doc Hancock if necessary. We lost that.
Quote by Raine:
That said, if kids can still stay on their parents insurance till the age of 27, and then opt into medicare at 55 that closes a big window. We still have a hellova donut hole.
Honestly, I'd rather see insurance out of most of the picture altogether. Using insurance as a routine thing is essentially betting against yourself, and it's an uneven bet.
If we bet on who wins a baseball game Rainey, you put a buck in the hat, I put a buck in the hat, and whoever wins gets what's in the hat.
If there's odds involved, you put a buck in, I put (maybe) 3 bucks in, if it's 3:1.
In insurance, you put $x per month, they don't put squat in, and if you "win" (i.e. the bad thing happens, yeah, you "win" when the bad thing happens) then you get their side of the odds, they say, by contract, with lots of small print.... the concept, as it is practiced, is BS.
It's even more BS when we try to use the same "bet" concept to pay for things we know will happen.
Gotta be a better way than paying a company to use our money to make their money, and hoping they will give us some back when something we know is gonna happen (like an annual physical) happens.
Insurance for known things, i.e. for anything other than catastrophic or non-plannable events (did I spell that right?) is, in my mind, BS.
Gotta be a better way. Gotta be.
I grew up in a rural place, where there were LOTS of people who didn't have squat. Hell, my parents sometimes didn't eat for day or two so they could feed me. Damned if that ever stopped them from dragging me to Doc Hancock or dragging themselves to Doc Hancock if necessary. We lost that.
Comment by velveeta jones on 12/09/2009 15:04:06
Yay!!!
I needs me some Uncle Al!! Woot!
'Course he aggravates me sometimes............ but still, I like him.
< poke poke
velveeta jones on 12/09/2009 15:04:06
Quote by Al from WV:
I know it's off the subject, please forgive me, but it seems that what we started off as "the board" pretty much landed here. Board's about dead. What the heck. Not a complaint, just an observation.
Anyway, tired of the children I have to try to talk around at "the other place" so I guess I'll be here more. Hope to be more active on my blog, too. Time, gotta have more time.
Good to see all you guys...
Yay!!!
I needs me some Uncle Al!! Woot!'Course he aggravates me sometimes............ but still, I like him.
< poke poke
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2009 15:14:06
Can't help it, I'm very shallow these days
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 15:14:06
Quote by BobR:Quote by Al from WV:
I know it's off the subject, please forgive me, but it seems that what we started off as "the board" pretty much landed here. Board's about dead. What the heck. Not a complaint, just an observation.
Anyway, tired of the children I have to try to talk around at "the other place" so I guess I'll be here more. Hope to be more active on my blog, too. Time, gotta have more time.
Good to see all you guys...
The board pretty much ended up being 6 regulars (you, me, LR, KFB, and occasionally Becky and TriSec). Without more participation from other people, it's gotten kind of dull. There's also been a lot of upheaval in the routine for a month now, and I'm just now starting to settle into a new routine.
This blog tends to be much more light-weight and random, and then there's facecrack...
Can't help it, I'm very shallow these days
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 15:14:08
Randomizer??
Pass out names??
Blogger Joe??
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over???
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
So is everyone in for the Blogger Joe?
Is this a hint for me to pass out names?
hitting the randomizer then sending them out
Randomizer??
Pass out names??
Blogger Joe??
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over???
Comment by BobR on 12/09/2009 15:15:50
Thanks Al - that's a really good analysis of what's wrong with the current system.
Of course - we're likely to disagree on what the proper solution would be
BobR on 12/09/2009 15:15:50
Quote by Al from WV:Quote by Raine:
That said, if kids can still stay on their parents insurance till the age of 27, and then opt into medicare at 55 that closes a big window. We still have a hellova donut hole.
Honestly, I'd rather see insurance out of most of the picture altogether. Using insurance as a routine thing is essentially betting against yourself, and it's an uneven bet.
If we bet on who wins a baseball game Rainey, you put a buck in the hat, I put a buck in the hat, and whoever wins gets what's in the hat.
If there's odds involved, you put a buck in, I put (maybe) 3 bucks in, if it's 3:1.
In insurance, you put $x per month, they don't put squat in, and if you "win" (i.e. the bad thing happens, yeah, you "win" when the bad thing happens) then you get their side of the odds, they say, by contract, with lots of small print.... the concept, as it is practiced, is BS.
It's even more BS when we try to use the same "bet" concept to pay for things we know will happen.
Gotta be a better way than paying a company to use our money to make their money, and hoping they will give us some back when something we know is gonna happen (like an annual physical) happens.
Insurance for known things, i.e. for anything other than catastrophic or non-plannable events (did I spell that right?) is, in my mind, BS.
Gotta be a better way. Gotta be.
I grew up in a rural place, where there were LOTS of people who didn't have squat. Hell, my parents sometimes didn't eat for day or two so they could feed me. Damned if that ever stopped them from dragging me to Doc Hancock or dragging themselves to Doc Hancock if necessary. We lost that.
Thanks Al - that's a really good analysis of what's wrong with the current system.
Of course - we're likely to disagree on what the proper solution would be
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 15:16:45
GGRROOWWLLLLLLLLLL Velveeta just poked me..... I'll be right back, is there a restroom around her somewhere? A sound proof one?
Quote by velveeta jones:Quote by Al from WV:
I know it's off the subject, please forgive me, but it seems that what we started off as "the board" pretty much landed here. Board's about dead. What the heck. Not a complaint, just an observation.
Anyway, tired of the children I have to try to talk around at "the other place" so I guess I'll be here more. Hope to be more active on my blog, too. Time, gotta have more time.
Good to see all you guys...
Yay!!!
'Course he aggravates me sometimes............ but still, I like him.
GGRROOWWLLLLLLLLLL Velveeta just poked me..... I'll be right back, is there a restroom around her somewhere? A sound proof one?
Comment by BobR on 12/09/2009 15:16:56
click the link - all will be explained...
BobR on 12/09/2009 15:16:56
Quote by Al from WV:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
So is everyone in for the Blogger Joe?
Is this a hint for me to pass out names?
hitting the randomizer then sending them out
Randomizer??
Pass out names??
Blogger Joe??
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over???
click the link - all will be explained...
Comment by 
Scoopster on 12/09/2009 15:22:48
Scoopster on 12/09/2009 15:22:48
Morning all! 
& welcome to el bloggerino Al!
Two hours late for work this morning...
& welcome to el bloggerino Al!Two hours late for work this morning...
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 15:35:16
Maybe... "Proper" solution maybe not. "Ideal" solution, probably so.
I don't think that what I believe is the ideal solution is achievable in America today. It involves people being self-sacrificially principled, and the rest of America honoring that. I don't think that's possible anymore.
What is left, as I see things, is the proper solution. Personally, I'd like the proper solution drive toward the ideal solution, with the idea that, by principle, we ought to be as close to the ideal as we can. I think that is not going to be accepted by the American public. I think the concept of an ideal being good has also been destroyed, in favor of simply "what works for now."
Ergo, what's left, Bob, as I see it, is management. So, as a matter of practicality, and in an attitude of giving up, we might possibly agree on what management efforts should make it happen..
In the end, leaving people without legitimate access to a doctor is just not tenable, so we have to do it, even if it kills what America was set up to be. With that said, access to doctors is NOT what will kill America, not really, it's a symptom, not a cause. I personally thing that what has brought this nation to a place where access to a doctor is a political football will kill this nation. But that's just me.
Quote by BobR:Quote by Al from WV:Quote by Raine:
That said, if kids can still stay on their parents insurance till the age of 27, and then opt into medicare at 55 that closes a big window. We still have a hellova donut hole.
Honestly, I'd rather see insurance out of most of the picture altogether. Using insurance as a routine thing is essentially betting against yourself, and it's an uneven bet.
If we bet on who wins a baseball game Rainey, you put a buck in the hat, I put a buck in the hat, and whoever wins gets what's in the hat.
If there's odds involved, you put a buck in, I put (maybe) 3 bucks in, if it's 3:1.
In insurance, you put $x per month, they don't put squat in, and if you "win" (i.e. the bad thing happens, yeah, you "win" when the bad thing happens) then you get their side of the odds, they say, by contract, with lots of small print.... the concept, as it is practiced, is BS.
It's even more BS when we try to use the same "bet" concept to pay for things we know will happen.
Gotta be a better way than paying a company to use our money to make their money, and hoping they will give us some back when something we know is gonna happen (like an annual physical) happens.
Insurance for known things, i.e. for anything other than catastrophic or non-plannable events (did I spell that right?) is, in my mind, BS.
Gotta be a better way. Gotta be.
I grew up in a rural place, where there were LOTS of people who didn't have squat. Hell, my parents sometimes didn't eat for day or two so they could feed me. Damned if that ever stopped them from dragging me to Doc Hancock or dragging themselves to Doc Hancock if necessary. We lost that.
Thanks Al - that's a really good analysis of what's wrong with the current system.
Of course - we're likely to disagree on what the proper solution would be
Maybe... "Proper" solution maybe not. "Ideal" solution, probably so.
I don't think that what I believe is the ideal solution is achievable in America today. It involves people being self-sacrificially principled, and the rest of America honoring that. I don't think that's possible anymore.
What is left, as I see things, is the proper solution. Personally, I'd like the proper solution drive toward the ideal solution, with the idea that, by principle, we ought to be as close to the ideal as we can. I think that is not going to be accepted by the American public. I think the concept of an ideal being good has also been destroyed, in favor of simply "what works for now."
Ergo, what's left, Bob, as I see it, is management. So, as a matter of practicality, and in an attitude of giving up, we might possibly agree on what management efforts should make it happen..
In the end, leaving people without legitimate access to a doctor is just not tenable, so we have to do it, even if it kills what America was set up to be. With that said, access to doctors is NOT what will kill America, not really, it's a symptom, not a cause. I personally thing that what has brought this nation to a place where access to a doctor is a political football will kill this nation. But that's just me.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2009 15:37:11
simply explained its our version of a secret santa
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 15:37:11
Quote by BobR:Quote by Al from WV:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
So is everyone in for the Blogger Joe?
Is this a hint for me to pass out names?
hitting the randomizer then sending them out
Randomizer??
Pass out names??
Blogger Joe??
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over???
click the link - all will be explained...
simply explained its our version of a secret santa
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 15:45:43
***Al rolls up his sleeves - stretches a little - picks up some rope, a cane, a riding crop, and a buddy whip for protection - glances over at Bob and says, "OK, I'm going in."
.
.
.
He walks back out going "OH!!!!! (and she said "leather"... I like it)........
Quote by BobR:Quote by Al from WV:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
So is everyone in for the Blogger Joe?
Is this a hint for me to pass out names?
hitting the randomizer then sending them out
Randomizer??
Pass out names??
Blogger Joe??
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over???
click the link - all will be explained...
***Al rolls up his sleeves - stretches a little - picks up some rope, a cane, a riding crop, and a buddy whip for protection - glances over at Bob and says, "OK, I'm going in."
.
.
.
He walks back out going "OH!!!!! (and she said "leather"... I like it)........
Comment by 
livingonli on 12/09/2009 15:46:55
livingonli on 12/09/2009 15:46:55
Good morning everyone.
Last night at Lizz's show when we were in the break between segments was when word came out on the Reid statement and since as it turned out peacehugs was in the row in front of me and HBK. So, the discussion in that part of the show got into the debate as the news was spreading and no one was happy. It was a great show. She had a guest from Editor and Publisher and we talked about what a crapfest the media has become with the news coverage and how failure seems to be a promotion in the media (ie Bill Kristol at the New York Times).
I said hi to Lizz, Darbie, and HBK on your behalf, Raine. And Hal Sparks was also in the audience and I managed to talk to him for a second since we mentioned his upcoming appearance on today's show with Momma.
Hi, Al. Haven't spoken to you since the DC meet-up. I don't have time to be on the boards myself but I got addicted to the facecrack.
Last night at Lizz's show when we were in the break between segments was when word came out on the Reid statement and since as it turned out peacehugs was in the row in front of me and HBK. So, the discussion in that part of the show got into the debate as the news was spreading and no one was happy. It was a great show. She had a guest from Editor and Publisher and we talked about what a crapfest the media has become with the news coverage and how failure seems to be a promotion in the media (ie Bill Kristol at the New York Times).
I said hi to Lizz, Darbie, and HBK on your behalf, Raine.
And Hal Sparks was also in the audience and I managed to talk to him for a second since we mentioned his upcoming appearance on today's show with Momma. Hi, Al. Haven't spoken to you since the DC meet-up. I don't have time to be on the boards myself but I got addicted to the facecrack.
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 15:48:49
Raine on 12/09/2009 15:48:49
This is always the hardest part-- coming up with a concept for the card....
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 15:50:42
We've done it for about 4 or five years now, It's one of my fave things about the holidays... really!
Raine on 12/09/2009 15:50:42
Quote by Al from WV:
***Al rolls up his sleeves - stretches a little - picks up some rope, a cane, a riding crop, and a buddy whip for protection - glances over at Bob and says, "OK, I'm going in."
.
.
.
He walks back out going "OH!!!!! (and she said "leather"... I like it)........
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 15:54:09
We still have to send out Christmas cards.
Yeah, Christmas cards... not Xmas cards... not CHRISTmas cards... not (grab you by the throat)-CHRIST-dammit-cards... not Hannuka cards... not Kwanzaa cards... Christmas cards.
Christmas is what we celebrate. You might do the same, you might not. What you do is your business. What I do is my business.
Neither one is more important than the other, and I will not subjugate my celebration to yours nor expect you to subjugate yours to mine, either by having to hide either celebration, or be ashamed of either celebration, or by denegrating either celebration.
Don't tell me one celebration exists because the other one isn't good enough. That's BS. Celebrate what's in your heart.
I will not have what I celebrate, and what a significant portion of the human race has celebrated for hundreds of years turned into yet another political football.
It's BS, plain and simple, and anybody that plays that game, whether by turning it into a political football, or playing for or against it afterwards, is coated with the same BS, in my opinion.
Merry Christmas. If you celebrate something else, I hope it is as intense as "Merry" is to Christmas.
Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:
It is time for me to start working on the holiday cards for the year...
Don't you mean CHRISTmas cards???
We still have to send out Christmas cards.
Yeah, Christmas cards... not Xmas cards... not CHRISTmas cards... not (grab you by the throat)-CHRIST-dammit-cards... not Hannuka cards... not Kwanzaa cards... Christmas cards.
Christmas is what we celebrate. You might do the same, you might not. What you do is your business. What I do is my business.
Neither one is more important than the other, and I will not subjugate my celebration to yours nor expect you to subjugate yours to mine, either by having to hide either celebration, or be ashamed of either celebration, or by denegrating either celebration.
Don't tell me one celebration exists because the other one isn't good enough. That's BS. Celebrate what's in your heart.
I will not have what I celebrate, and what a significant portion of the human race has celebrated for hundreds of years turned into yet another political football.
It's BS, plain and simple, and anybody that plays that game, whether by turning it into a political football, or playing for or against it afterwards, is coated with the same BS, in my opinion.
Merry Christmas. If you celebrate something else, I hope it is as intense as "Merry" is to Christmas.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2009 15:55:48
zombie reindeer?
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 15:55:48
Quote by Raine:
This is always the hardest part-- coming up with a concept for the card....
zombie reindeer?
Comment by livingonli on 12/09/2009 15:56:21
livingonli on 12/09/2009 15:56:21
Stephanie Louise Miller! It's time for producerchris to break out the discipline.
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 15:59:04
had to read that twice... You mean the exchange is one of your fave things about the holidays.... not the other stuff..... got it....
Quote by Raine:We've done it for about 4 or five years now, It's one of my fave things about the holidays... really!Quote by Al from WV:
***Al rolls up his sleeves - stretches a little - picks up some rope, a cane, a riding crop, and a buddy whip for protection - glances over at Bob and says, "OK, I'm going in."
.
.
.
He walks back out going "OH!!!!! (and she said "leather"... I like it)........
had to read that twice... You mean the exchange is one of your fave things about the holidays.... not the other stuff..... got it....
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 16:01:45
It wasn't meant to be political at all. 
I send out cards for the holiday season and let people take from it what they will.
Raine on 12/09/2009 16:01:45
Quote by Al from WV:Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:
It is time for me to start working on the holiday cards for the year...
Don't you mean CHRISTmas cards???
We still have to send out Christmas cards.
Yeah, Christmas cards... not Xmas cards... not CHRISTmas cards... not (grab you by the throat)-CHRIST-dammit-cards... not Hannuka cards... not Kwanzaa cards... Christmas cards.
Christmas is what we celebrate. You might do the same, you might not. What you do is your business. What I do is my business.
Neither one is more important than the other, and I will not subjugate my celebration to yours nor expect you to subjugate yours to mine, either by having to hide either celebration, or be ashamed of either celebration, or by denegrating either celebration.
Don't tell me one celebration exists because the other one isn't good enough. That's BS. Celebrate what's in your heart.
I will not have what I celebrate, and what a significant portion of the human race has celebrated for hundreds of years turned into yet another political football.
It's BS, plain and simple, and anybody that plays that game, whether by turning it into a political football, or playing for or against it afterwards, is coated with the same BS, in my opinion.
Merry Christmas. If you celebrate something else, I hope it is as intense as "Merry" is to Christmas.
I send out cards for the holiday season and let people take from it what they will.
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 16:02:31
Raine on 12/09/2009 16:02:31
Quote by Al from WV:
had to read that twice... You mean the exchange is one of your fave things about the holidays.... not the other stuff..... got it....
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 16:06:16
DAMMIT that came across as a shot at you, didn't it? Of course it did. NOT meant that way. I'm very sorry. Very Very Very sorry.
Was just using Bob's tease (about O'Reilly's crap) as a launching pad, and addressing it in general, as to the push both for and against the Christmas word.
Sorry, Rainey, seriously, it was NOT a shot at you. Not in any way.
I apologize for letting it sound like it was.
Quote by Raine:It wasn't meant to be political at all.Quote by Al from WV:Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:
It is time for me to start working on the holiday cards for the year...
Don't you mean CHRISTmas cards???
We still have to send out Christmas cards.
Yeah, Christmas cards... not Xmas cards... not CHRISTmas cards... not (grab you by the throat)-CHRIST-dammit-cards... not Hannuka cards... not Kwanzaa cards... Christmas cards.
Christmas is what we celebrate. You might do the same, you might not. What you do is your business. What I do is my business.
Neither one is more important than the other, and I will not subjugate my celebration to yours nor expect you to subjugate yours to mine, either by having to hide either celebration, or be ashamed of either celebration, or by denegrating either celebration.
Don't tell me one celebration exists because the other one isn't good enough. That's BS. Celebrate what's in your heart.
I will not have what I celebrate, and what a significant portion of the human race has celebrated for hundreds of years turned into yet another political football.
It's BS, plain and simple, and anybody that plays that game, whether by turning it into a political football, or playing for or against it afterwards, is coated with the same BS, in my opinion.
Merry Christmas. If you celebrate something else, I hope it is as intense as "Merry" is to Christmas.
DAMMIT that came across as a shot at you, didn't it? Of course it did. NOT meant that way. I'm very sorry. Very Very Very sorry.
Was just using Bob's tease (about O'Reilly's crap) as a launching pad, and addressing it in general, as to the push both for and against the Christmas word.
Sorry, Rainey, seriously, it was NOT a shot at you. Not in any way.
I apologize for letting it sound like it was.
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 16:10:21
yeah, wife got me to make a profile, so she could send things back and forth something about farming or some farming game.
then this high school buddy showed up...
then another...
then a girl I grew up with...
then I found wordpaths...
yeah, I'm there..........
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone.
Last night at Lizz's show when we were in the break between segments was when word came out on the Reid statement and since as it turned out peacehugs was in the row in front of me and HBK. So, the discussion in that part of the show got into the debate as the news was spreading and no one was happy. It was a great show. She had a guest from Editor and Publisher and we talked about what a crapfest the media has become with the news coverage and how failure seems to be a promotion in the media (ie Bill Kristol at the New York Times).
I said hi to Lizz, Darbie, and HBK on your behalf, Raine.
Hi, Al. Haven't spoken to you since the DC meet-up. I don't have time to be on the boards myself but I got addicted to the facecrack.
yeah, wife got me to make a profile, so she could send things back and forth something about farming or some farming game.
then this high school buddy showed up...
then another...
then a girl I grew up with...
then I found wordpaths...
yeah, I'm there..........
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 16:11:01
just like old times Al! 
and I agree-- I am tired of Christmas being used as a political football too.
Raine on 12/09/2009 16:11:01
Quote by Al from WV:
DAMMIT that came across as a shot at you, didn't it? Of course it did. NOT meant that way. I'm very sorry. Very Very Very sorry.
Was just using Bob's tease (about O'Reilly's crap) as a launching pad, and addressing it in general, as to the push both for and against the Christmas word.
Sorry, Rainey, seriously, it was NOT a shot at you. Not in any way.
I apologize for letting it sound like it was.
and I agree-- I am tired of Christmas being used as a political football too.
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 16:14:19
you know you're only 10 minutes from me right now, right, IF that long?
Quote by Raine:just like old times Al!Quote by Al from WV:
DAMMIT that came across as a shot at you, didn't it? Of course it did. NOT meant that way. I'm very sorry. Very Very Very sorry.
Was just using Bob's tease (about O'Reilly's crap) as a launching pad, and addressing it in general, as to the push both for and against the Christmas word.
Sorry, Rainey, seriously, it was NOT a shot at you. Not in any way.
I apologize for letting it sound like it was.
and I agree-- I am tired of Christmas being used as a political football too.
you know you're only 10 minutes from me right now, right, IF that long?
Comment by livingonli on 12/09/2009 16:14:48
That's how it starts. First, I friended the people from here and then Lizz and other media people who I dealt with and then my friend's list expanded to include not just the people I discuss politics with but my co-workers and I even found many of the people from my old college radio station days so it's interesting how networking works.
livingonli on 12/09/2009 16:14:48
Quote by Al from WV:Quote by livingonli:
Good morning everyone.
Last night at Lizz's show when we were in the break between segments was when word came out on the Reid statement and since as it turned out peacehugs was in the row in front of me and HBK. So, the discussion in that part of the show got into the debate as the news was spreading and no one was happy. It was a great show. She had a guest from Editor and Publisher and we talked about what a crapfest the media has become with the news coverage and how failure seems to be a promotion in the media (ie Bill Kristol at the New York Times).
I said hi to Lizz, Darbie, and HBK on your behalf, Raine.
Hi, Al. Haven't spoken to you since the DC meet-up. I don't have time to be on the boards myself but I got addicted to the facecrack.
yeah, wife got me to make a profile, so she could send things back and forth something about farming or some farming game.
then this high school buddy showed up...
then another...
then a girl I grew up with...
then I found wordpaths...
yeah, I'm there..........
That's how it starts. First, I friended the people from here and then Lizz and other media people who I dealt with and then my friend's list expanded to include not just the people I discuss politics with but my co-workers and I even found many of the people from my old college radio station days so it's interesting how networking works.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2009 16:21:59
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 16:21:59
Blogger JOe names have been sent out - let me know if you signed up but didnt' get one
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2009 16:29:13
I think so -- we are in Del Ray area of Alexandria-- very close to the Arlington border.
Raine on 12/09/2009 16:29:13
Quote by Al from WV:Quote by Raine:just like old times Al!Quote by Al from WV:
DAMMIT that came across as a shot at you, didn't it? Of course it did. NOT meant that way. I'm very sorry. Very Very Very sorry.
Was just using Bob's tease (about O'Reilly's crap) as a launching pad, and addressing it in general, as to the push both for and against the Christmas word.
Sorry, Rainey, seriously, it was NOT a shot at you. Not in any way.
I apologize for letting it sound like it was.
and I agree-- I am tired of Christmas being used as a political football too.
you know you're only 10 minutes from me right now, right, IF that long?
Comment by livingonli on 12/09/2009 16:33:45
livingonli on 12/09/2009 16:33:45
BTW, Raine. Lizz is expecting you at her show next month when she's in DC.
Comment by Al from WV on 12/09/2009 16:33:56
Checked the email from Bob first. Know just exactly where. I'm near the Nationals stadium. Could walk there, easily.
Quote by Raine:I think so -- we are in Del Ray area of Alexandria-- very close to the Arlington border.Quote by Al from WV:Quote by Raine:just like old times Al!Quote by Al from WV:
DAMMIT that came across as a shot at you, didn't it? Of course it did. NOT meant that way. I'm very sorry. Very Very Very sorry.
Was just using Bob's tease (about O'Reilly's crap) as a launching pad, and addressing it in general, as to the push both for and against the Christmas word.
Sorry, Rainey, seriously, it was NOT a shot at you. Not in any way.
I apologize for letting it sound like it was.
and I agree-- I am tired of Christmas being used as a political football too.
you know you're only 10 minutes from me right now, right, IF that long?
Checked the email from Bob first. Know just exactly where. I'm near the Nationals stadium. Could walk there, easily.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2009 16:55:01
wickedpam on 12/09/2009 16:55:01
okay - gots ta run an errand - back in a bit
Comment by livingonli on 12/09/2009 16:56:32
livingonli on 12/09/2009 16:56:32
Have fun, Mala.