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A Lesson for the Left, from the Tea Party.
Author: Raine
Date: 09/20/2010 13:08:09
Last week, I wrote a blog regarding the Tea Party telling the so called "establishment" of the GOP to STFU. This weekend in the opinion section of WaPo David Gergen offered a pointed critique of the Tea Party This opinion is something many on the left could take heed to. A firestorm erupted a few weeks ago when Press Secretary Robert Gibbs called out the "Professional Left" to which I responded in a blog post We one the left would not be wise to sit back and smile smugly at what we are seeing with what is happening in the GOP with regards to the Tea Party-- we have some similar problems of our own. As I said back in August, when we alienate people within our own tent the GOP will win. That theory still remains true.
I say let the GOP figure out their own problems, since we have similar ones of our own. Gersan is right to say that when a party is overrun by political purists, the party suffers and ultimately the entire electorate. One of the reasons why the Democratic Party has been so popular over many decades is that it is a big tent, and I would like to see it remain that way. If it ceases to do so, it will resemble the GOP circa 2000 -- today we are seeing the manifestation of that party into what it is today as a result of unchecked party discipline: a radicalization of that party. Since January of 2009, the GOP has ignored the 'invisible elephant' in the room, it fed it, hoping to reap it's rewards, and instead, that elephant is charging at the masters who allowed it to grow.
We on the left should heed this lesson, purity in our party will simply hand the majority back to the GOP -- the very party whose ideology nearly brought this nation to it's knees. Imagine for a moment not just the GOP, but the Tea Party GOP in charge.
For all the talk of a Republican Majority come this fall, I believe there is still a great chance that we will retain the House and the Senate, but not by sitting back and pointing fingers at the other side, We must focus on listening and getting out the vote thru messaging. We must show people that we do not have purity tests, even tho some would have the voting public think otherwise. There is room for all voices in the Democratic Party, and there always should be. That said, there should be tolerance, even in disagreement. We see in the GOP what happens when tolerance is lost due to pure ideology.
They let the elephant grow from something non-existent to a monster -- and while we have a few jackasses under our tent, we should take heed and not let them define our party. There is simply too much at stake.
& 
Raine
Some conservatives have adopted the Bolshevik approach to information and the media: Every personal feeling, every independent thought, every inconvenient fact, must be subordinated to the party line -- the Tea Party line.
Second, the ferocity of this criticism indicates a growing arrogance. Tea Party purists, on the Internet and elsewhere, clearly believe their ascendance makes other elements of the conservative movement unnecessary.
I do believe there is a difference between pushing this administration and totally slamming it. I try to be pragmatic, considering the horrible waste this country was left in on January 20, 2009. There are those that have been consistently unhappy with everything it has done-- and I am not talking about the GOP or the Tea Party. Politics is about compromise, and -- especially in the Senate, we simply do not have the majority we need to get all the things we might want. Sometimes I get the feeling that some people want Obama to be the lefty version of the last President.
When you have progressives asking people to not vote, and to kill bills, this is not helping anyone. I can understand the frustration on both sides. The reality is the state of politics in this country today, when both the progressives and the White House are alienating people, then the GOP wins. Gibbs said something that perhaps needed to be said, and he said it terribly. But I don't think he was talking about you or me. I don't think he was talking about DKos, Keith Olberman or Rachel Maddow. I think he was talking about a select group of people or pundits. As Keith Olbermann pointed out last night, the left and the right think differently, he is correct, and that is where this communications arm of the White house consistently wrong.
I say let the GOP figure out their own problems, since we have similar ones of our own. Gersan is right to say that when a party is overrun by political purists, the party suffers and ultimately the entire electorate. One of the reasons why the Democratic Party has been so popular over many decades is that it is a big tent, and I would like to see it remain that way. If it ceases to do so, it will resemble the GOP circa 2000 -- today we are seeing the manifestation of that party into what it is today as a result of unchecked party discipline: a radicalization of that party. Since January of 2009, the GOP has ignored the 'invisible elephant' in the room, it fed it, hoping to reap it's rewards, and instead, that elephant is charging at the masters who allowed it to grow.
We on the left should heed this lesson, purity in our party will simply hand the majority back to the GOP -- the very party whose ideology nearly brought this nation to it's knees. Imagine for a moment not just the GOP, but the Tea Party GOP in charge.
For all the talk of a Republican Majority come this fall, I believe there is still a great chance that we will retain the House and the Senate, but not by sitting back and pointing fingers at the other side, We must focus on listening and getting out the vote thru messaging. We must show people that we do not have purity tests, even tho some would have the voting public think otherwise. There is room for all voices in the Democratic Party, and there always should be. That said, there should be tolerance, even in disagreement. We see in the GOP what happens when tolerance is lost due to pure ideology.
They let the elephant grow from something non-existent to a monster -- and while we have a few jackasses under our tent, we should take heed and not let them define our party. There is simply too much at stake.
& Raine
Comments:
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Comment by 
Raine on 09/20/2010 13:26:27
Raine on 09/20/2010 13:26:27
Happy Monday, BTW! 
Comment by 
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 13:28:25
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 13:28:25
Morning 
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 13:46:56
Raine on 09/20/2010 13:46:56
Hi NINA!!!! Welcome!
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 13:51:15
This is a very good point, altho I think that he's so called inability to fire people up is in large part do to the media meme that keeps being pounded, and this that the GOP will will come the fall.
I do believe that his desire to reach across the aisle is noble, but it's not working due to the childish indignation from the Republican party. They have one simple strategy -- it's called NO. <--- and that is only going to be a louder NO if the Tea Party succeeds with its purity purge of the party.
Raine on 09/20/2010 13:51:15
Quote by HouseofNina:
One of the reasons I liked Barack Obama (and still do) in 2008 is that he was a Democrat who ran his campaign like a Corporate Republican; he branded himself and his campaign well, he repeated simple messages over and over again, and he wasn't afraid to be a little ruthless (like refusing campaign money from McCain/Feingold act and straight-up canning his Pastor of twenty years).
If anything, the part that disappoints me is that he seems to have lost all that - He doesn't fire people he needs to (like some dude who's name begins with R), he thinks he can play nicely with people who don't know what means (some folks whose Party begins with R), but otherwise, he hasn't done anything that he didn't say he wouldn't do.
Barack Obama is centrist-covered centrist with centrist filling. He hasn't done anything he didn't say he was going to do in the campaign. That some progressives thought he was a secret pot-smoking Queer activist Peacenik who was going to put solar panels back on the White House is their frickin' problem.
My secret little fantasy is that Progressives start getting with the party line and stop acting like a box of cats. If there's one thing I envy about the Right-Wing is that they never keep their eyes off the prize. This is how sausage is made, folks - with the hard decisions that we have to make, and they're no less than what we expect from politicians.
This is a very good point, altho I think that he's so called inability to fire people up is in large part do to the media meme that keeps being pounded, and this that the GOP will will come the fall.
I do believe that his desire to reach across the aisle is noble, but it's not working due to the childish indignation from the Republican party. They have one simple strategy -- it's called NO. <--- and that is only going to be a louder NO if the Tea Party succeeds with its purity purge of the party.
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 13:55:24
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 13:55:24
Right.... "by accident"..... 
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 13:55:39
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 13:55:39
you what...today I hate people
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 13:56:38
Raine on 09/20/2010 13:56:38
Oh this guy is a pip.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 13:57:31
Is today wingnut call in Day on the Stephanie Miller show?
Raine on 09/20/2010 13:57:31
Quote by wickedpam:
you what...today I hate people
Is today wingnut call in Day on the Stephanie Miller show?
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:05:24
more like I have vile, mean neighbors who like to stab someone in the back when they step up and try to help their community
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:05:24
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
you what...today I hate people
Is today wingnut call in Day on the Stephanie Miller show?
more like I have vile, mean neighbors who like to stab someone in the back when they step up and try to help their community
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 14:09:46
oooo.
I will never understand people like that.
Raine on 09/20/2010 14:09:46
Quote by wickedpam:
more like I have vile, mean neighbors who like to stab someone in the back when they step up and try to help their community
I will never understand people like that.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 14:15:36
Raine on 09/20/2010 14:15:36
So, it sounds like the well is finally dead.
I am still damn nervous about it. It feel like it's still a festering mess under the floor of the gulf.
I am still damn nervous about it. It feel like it's still a festering mess under the floor of the gulf.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 14:25:59
Raine on 09/20/2010 14:25:59
SO by now, I am sure you have seen this bit of nuttery from Chrissy (abstinence witch) OD when she was on Politically incorrect with Al Franken, Rick Schroeder and Star Parker This is one of the 2 vids posted at TPM
What is not being reported is that Star Parker - is to the best of my knowledge, running for congress is California's 37th district. She was endorsed (also and such too as well) by Sarah Palin:
This is all getting very very strange.
I may have to blame Bill Maher for ALL of this nuttiness.
What is not being reported is that Star Parker - is to the best of my knowledge, running for congress is California's 37th district. She was endorsed (also and such too as well) by Sarah Palin:
This is all getting very very strange.
I may have to blame Bill Maher for ALL of this nuttiness.
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:27:31
I don't either.
I have 1 whiner is who bitching cause kids are out playing and thinks its the HOA's responsiblity to make them stop. WRONG! Its in violation of the fair housing act and if they did that we could be sued by the state. I've told this person this over and over but he's and fucking asshat fake news loving neo-con who hates that nanny state but wants a fucking nanny!
I have 1 whine who is complaining that one home doesn't have an hand railing and have been complaining about it for long before I was pres BUT he doesn't bitch about the other homes that don't. He's flying what I think is a st. george flag (white background - thin red cross) which to me is racist since its was a flag flown in the crusades and the neioghbors he bitched about are muslem - he alternates that with "don't trend on me" flag - like he's do down trodden.
I've got a former friend who tried to bully me about trash bags and I told him that an HOA doesn't dictate what kind of trash bags someone buys so long as it was okay with the city. And has been sneaking around behind my back ploting over throw a board that has worked very hard to get ahead.
I going one board member who is working with the former friend to help do this and is putting notices on peoples doors who own money which is illegal. ANd telling certain homeowners about things that have been proposed but aren't confirmed with the 1 By Youth project that I worked hard to bring to the community.
I'm fed up! I hate people! I"m tired of being stabbed in the back everytime I try to help
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:27:31
Quote by Raine:oooo.Quote by wickedpam:
more like I have vile, mean neighbors who like to stab someone in the back when they step up and try to help their community
I will never understand people like that.
I don't either.
I have 1 whiner is who bitching cause kids are out playing and thinks its the HOA's responsiblity to make them stop. WRONG! Its in violation of the fair housing act and if they did that we could be sued by the state. I've told this person this over and over but he's and fucking asshat fake news loving neo-con who hates that nanny state but wants a fucking nanny!
I have 1 whine who is complaining that one home doesn't have an hand railing and have been complaining about it for long before I was pres BUT he doesn't bitch about the other homes that don't. He's flying what I think is a st. george flag (white background - thin red cross) which to me is racist since its was a flag flown in the crusades and the neioghbors he bitched about are muslem - he alternates that with "don't trend on me" flag - like he's do down trodden.
I've got a former friend who tried to bully me about trash bags and I told him that an HOA doesn't dictate what kind of trash bags someone buys so long as it was okay with the city. And has been sneaking around behind my back ploting over throw a board that has worked very hard to get ahead.
I going one board member who is working with the former friend to help do this and is putting notices on peoples doors who own money which is illegal. ANd telling certain homeowners about things that have been proposed but aren't confirmed with the 1 By Youth project that I worked hard to bring to the community.
I'm fed up! I hate people! I"m tired of being stabbed in the back everytime I try to help
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:28:56
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:28:56
Sorry about all the cursing - I'm just throughly PO'd
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 14:37:52
I think you need some nicely worded letters to all these people. I am quite serious about this. Document document document. They will shut up quite quickly when they realize that not only are you considering there "requests" <--- I use that word loosely, but when they know that you have responded in writing and that you have the documentation -- They will shut the hell up.
and around here -- you curse all you want. Everyone needs a safe place to vent.
Raine on 09/20/2010 14:37:52
Quote by wickedpam:
Sorry about all the cursing - I'm just throughly PO'd
I think you need some nicely worded letters to all these people. I am quite serious about this. Document document document. They will shut up quite quickly when they realize that not only are you considering there "requests" <--- I use that word loosely, but when they know that you have responded in writing and that you have the documentation -- They will shut the hell up.
and around here -- you curse all you want. Everyone needs a safe place to vent.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 14:39:07
Raine on 09/20/2010 14:39:07
Does your HOA have a community newsletter? If not, I would suggest one. I am sure you might have a few people that would help you out putting one together.
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:43:30
I have been, when they actually call it in or send an email like there supposed too. But most of them are just cowards who have their own agendas and what to know who owes what money.
Thanks - this is a very safe place - I'm so glad I have all of you
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:43:30
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
Sorry about all the cursing - I'm just throughly PO'd
I think you need some nicely worded letters to all these people. I am quite serious about this. Document document document. They will shut up quite quickly when they realize that not only are you considering there "requests" <--- I use that word loosely, but when they know that you have responded in writing and that you have the documentation -- They will shut the hell up.
and around here -- you curse all you want. Everyone needs a safe place to vent.
I have been, when they actually call it in or send an email like there supposed too. But most of them are just cowards who have their own agendas and what to know who owes what money.
Thanks - this is a very safe place - I'm so glad I have all of you
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:46:01
Yea, see there's the thing - I do the newletter, I do the flyers, I started the email account, I have the city contacts, I've been through a ton of classes, (including fair housing), I walk up to peoples doors to talk to them, I organize all our community events, I started the facebook page, I started the twitter account and I was working on starting a blog since we can't afford a website
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 14:46:01
Quote by Raine:
Does your HOA have a community newsletter? If not, I would suggest one. I am sure you might have a few people that would help you out putting one together.
Yea, see there's the thing - I do the newletter, I do the flyers, I started the email account, I have the city contacts, I've been through a ton of classes, (including fair housing), I walk up to peoples doors to talk to them, I organize all our community events, I started the facebook page, I started the twitter account and I was working on starting a blog since we can't afford a website
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 14:49:07
Raine on 09/20/2010 14:49:07
you know, it would also be interesting to write a mass email.
It could start with a kinda naive way, such as:
And end with something along the lines of
It could start with a kinda naive way, such as:
it has been brought to my attention thru various avenues of communication that the possibility (etc. etc. etc)
And end with something along the lines of
I want you to know that as the Pres of the HOA, I continue to listen and be engaged with all members of our community and strive to help make this a place where we are all happy and co-exist as such. It's not easy as we are such a diverse group, but when we work together thru using the lines of communication, we will be a better community.
Comment by 
BobR on 09/20/2010 14:53:20
BobR on 09/20/2010 14:53:20
morning folks... 
It's definitely a Monday...
It's definitely a Monday...
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 14:54:10
You know the fact that you can do this is amazing.
People like those asshats are why I could never be a politician. I don;t have the patience for it.
Raine on 09/20/2010 14:54:10
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Does your HOA have a community newsletter? If not, I would suggest one. I am sure you might have a few people that would help you out putting one together.
Yea, see there's the thing - I do the newletter, I do the flyers, I started the email account, I have the city contacts, I've been through a ton of classes, (including fair housing), I walk up to peoples doors to talk to them, I organize all our community events, I started the facebook page, I started the twitter account and I was working on starting a blog since we can't afford a website
You know the fact that you can do this is amazing.
People like those asshats are why I could never be a politician. I don;t have the patience for it.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 14:56:05
Raine on 09/20/2010 14:56:05
Satan is a fallen angel -- caller has a interesting point.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 15:02:37
Raine on 09/20/2010 15:02:37
From a friends FB Status -- I 
this:
this: Mahatma Gandhi , as you know, walked barefoot most of the time, which produced an impressive set of calluses on his feet. He also ate very little, which made him rather frail and, with his odd diet, he suffered from bad breath .
This made him a super calloused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 15:25:37
not a bad idea - thing is I was told some of that stuff in confiedence and asked not to say anything - which i'm finding a problem
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 15:25:37
Quote by Raine:
you know, it would also be interesting to write a mass email.
It could start with a kinda naive way, such as:it has been brought to my attention thru various avenues of communication that the possibility (etc. etc. etc)
And end with something along the lines ofI want you to know that as the Pres of the HOA, I continue to listen and be engaged with all members of our community and strive to help make this a place where we are all happy and co-exist as such. It's not easy as we are such a diverse group, but when we work together thru using the lines of communication, we will be a better community.
not a bad idea - thing is I was told some of that stuff in confiedence and asked not to say anything - which i'm finding a problem
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 15:27:53
I didn't want to be one either - all I wanted to do was help my neighborhood and its all blown up in my face - I don't have the patience and to be honest I"m really pretty shy and I don't like talking to people I don't know but I make myself do it
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 15:27:53
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Does your HOA have a community newsletter? If not, I would suggest one. I am sure you might have a few people that would help you out putting one together.
Yea, see there's the thing - I do the newletter, I do the flyers, I started the email account, I have the city contacts, I've been through a ton of classes, (including fair housing), I walk up to peoples doors to talk to them, I organize all our community events, I started the facebook page, I started the twitter account and I was working on starting a blog since we can't afford a website
You know the fact that you can do this is amazing.
People like those asshats are why I could never be a politician. I don;t have the patience for it.
I didn't want to be one either - all I wanted to do was help my neighborhood and its all blown up in my face - I don't have the patience and to be honest I"m really pretty shy and I don't like talking to people I don't know but I make myself do it
Comment by 
livingonli on 09/20/2010 15:28:49
livingonli on 09/20/2010 15:28:49
Good morning folks.
I wonder if the "voters values" summit proves that the teabagger movement is proof that the GOP is becoming more and more a Fascist political party.
I wonder if the "voters values" summit proves that the teabagger movement is proof that the GOP is becoming more and more a Fascist political party.
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 15:29:19
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 15:29:19
BTW - Hello Nina - sorry that my ranting is your first impression of me - not usually like this really 
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 15:35:11
Ahh -- that is my bad -- read it as Fire people up--
<---
I agree, I think that Rham needs to go. I understood (while Not really being pleased, to be honest) bringing him in in the beginning, he is a trusted friend of Obama and was supposed to help bring factions together -- he has not done so.
You're right -- he does the POTUS no favors -- I do think he gives away too much for too little political gain. It's easy to be an armchair QB -- to say we could have gotten more without his brand of armtwisting. HCR is a perfect example. That said, I still believe HCR was better than not getting anything. I think he settles too quickly and that since he is Obama's closest advisor, that is what Obama was told. Keep in mind, the POTUS does NOT read blogs, newspapers and opinions like most of us do -- he is a far busier person that you and I. Hell -- do you remember his Blackberry controversy? He was VERY wired-in before he took the office -- now, he's not even allowed to have a laptop due to security reasons (and the Presidential Records act -- something I would very much like to see adjusted)
Personally -- and I really believe this, I think the GOP piqued early again. They did it in September 2008 do you remember? McCain was deemed Ahead in the polls -- the media said McCain had momentum that August and into September. Then the economy tanked -- and he picked Palin.
He picked Palin -- the very first Teabagger. She played the fear card. Flanked by her was McCain advisor and Friend Phil Graham who then told us the economic problems were all in our heads. They tried to tell us that Obama was a terrorist sympathizer. They were riding high on the what the polls were saying and the media.
The economy dominated the News Cycle -- and yet -- when the Stock Market tanked, McCain started dropping in the polls. IF -- and this is the big Crystal ball IF -- the election happened in September things would have been very different.
Once again, this summer the GOP whipped people into a frenzy like 2008, (and 2009). Yet in both those years, the Dems won -- in 2008, it was by election, in 2009 and so far in 2010, we are seeing one of the more progressive legislative sessions we have seen in a very long time.
As I always say -- It isn't happening fast enough for many -- but it is happening. The GOP momentum is stalling -- They went thru the primaries and nominated more hard right candidates. People are getting turned off -- Look at Harry Reid and Sharon Angle, she scares people. I think the GOP knows this -- that is why they are trying to shut O'Donnell down. She is the weakest Tea Party link. She is going to be the fall gal for the GOP to take the party back from them.
Barack Obama knew/knows how to play long ball, The GOP no longer does. The GOP is trying to shut this monster up.
(I really hope this makes sense)
Raine on 09/20/2010 15:35:11
Quote by HouseofNina:
I meant fire people - not fire people up. I haven't been paying close attention this year, but according to my Mother Rahm Emmanuel needed to go a while back, and through my news diet I tend to agree - he's not doing President Obama any favors.
But YOU bring up a good point anyhow - the whole "Obama is an inscrutable policy Nerd" is a dusty meme going back to Clinton, and just generally a crock of poo. He can and does excite his base when they're paying attention.
The problem with Political Junkies (present company excluded, Raine) is that a lot of them tend to follow the day-to-day happenings like it's all life-and-death, when it's really more like a soap opera (watch every day and it seems like a lot of stuff is happening, but back away for two or three months and Joey Blow is still in a coma).
For folks who can see the uber-picture, the mid-terms were pretty much forecast in 08 when the Democratic Party took control of both branches. Anyone who thinks we were going to maintain momentum for two years hasn't been around long enough.
Sorry for the ramble - this is the first time in a while I've gotten my poltical thoughts down - I haven't blogged poltically since Jan, even - I've been mentally bracing for the inevitable bloodbath in November.
<--- I agree, I think that Rham needs to go. I understood (while Not really being pleased, to be honest) bringing him in in the beginning, he is a trusted friend of Obama and was supposed to help bring factions together -- he has not done so.
You're right -- he does the POTUS no favors -- I do think he gives away too much for too little political gain. It's easy to be an armchair QB -- to say we could have gotten more without his brand of armtwisting. HCR is a perfect example. That said, I still believe HCR was better than not getting anything. I think he settles too quickly and that since he is Obama's closest advisor, that is what Obama was told. Keep in mind, the POTUS does NOT read blogs, newspapers and opinions like most of us do -- he is a far busier person that you and I. Hell -- do you remember his Blackberry controversy? He was VERY wired-in before he took the office -- now, he's not even allowed to have a laptop due to security reasons (and the Presidential Records act -- something I would very much like to see adjusted)
Personally -- and I really believe this, I think the GOP piqued early again. They did it in September 2008 do you remember? McCain was deemed Ahead in the polls -- the media said McCain had momentum that August and into September. Then the economy tanked -- and he picked Palin.
He picked Palin -- the very first Teabagger. She played the fear card. Flanked by her was McCain advisor and Friend Phil Graham who then told us the economic problems were all in our heads. They tried to tell us that Obama was a terrorist sympathizer. They were riding high on the what the polls were saying and the media.
The economy dominated the News Cycle -- and yet -- when the Stock Market tanked, McCain started dropping in the polls. IF -- and this is the big Crystal ball IF -- the election happened in September things would have been very different.
Once again, this summer the GOP whipped people into a frenzy like 2008, (and 2009). Yet in both those years, the Dems won -- in 2008, it was by election, in 2009 and so far in 2010, we are seeing one of the more progressive legislative sessions we have seen in a very long time.
As I always say -- It isn't happening fast enough for many -- but it is happening. The GOP momentum is stalling -- They went thru the primaries and nominated more hard right candidates. People are getting turned off -- Look at Harry Reid and Sharon Angle, she scares people. I think the GOP knows this -- that is why they are trying to shut O'Donnell down. She is the weakest Tea Party link. She is going to be the fall gal for the GOP to take the party back from them.
Barack Obama knew/knows how to play long ball, The GOP no longer does. The GOP is trying to shut this monster up.
(I really hope this makes sense)
Comment by livingonli on 09/20/2010 15:36:16
livingonli on 09/20/2010 15:36:16
MGM calling out the lies of right-wing cranks.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 15:36:25
We go back and forth Nina! And seriously -- WELCOME!!!!
Raine on 09/20/2010 15:36:25
Quote by HouseofNina:
This is more like a party isn't it? I should lighten up.
And another thing, to not vote is to vote Republican. Plus
We go back and forth Nina! And seriously -- WELCOME!!!!
Comment by 
TriSec on 09/20/2010 15:38:09
TriSec on 09/20/2010 15:38:09
Morning, comrades! Late to the party - we were recruiting for the Cub Scouts in one of the public schools today.
A couple of observations on volunteer organizations....I have a troublesome parent in my Pack whose mission it is to make the rest of us miserable. We finally had it out last Thursday; I dressed her down in the parking lot after a PTO meeting when she cornered me to whine about another member of the committee. I pretty much told her to grow up or quit, and I got the impression that nobody had ever spoken to her that way. She showed up at the rally today much subdued and did what she was supposed to.
On the tenant's association front, we always joke about the "you all suck" letter we'd love to send. There's a small group of dedicated folks trying to make the neighborhood better, and all we get is complaints from non-participating residents. We have a draft letter telling everyone that they suck, nobody wants to lift a finger, and help out or STFU. Then we say if you disagree with anything we've said here, you are invited to the next meeting to tell us what you think. It's very therapeutic, but we've not sent it out. Yet.
A couple of observations on volunteer organizations....I have a troublesome parent in my Pack whose mission it is to make the rest of us miserable. We finally had it out last Thursday; I dressed her down in the parking lot after a PTO meeting when she cornered me to whine about another member of the committee. I pretty much told her to grow up or quit, and I got the impression that nobody had ever spoken to her that way. She showed up at the rally today much subdued and did what she was supposed to.
On the tenant's association front, we always joke about the "you all suck" letter we'd love to send. There's a small group of dedicated folks trying to make the neighborhood better, and all we get is complaints from non-participating residents. We have a draft letter telling everyone that they suck, nobody wants to lift a finger, and help out or STFU. Then we say if you disagree with anything we've said here, you are invited to the next meeting to tell us what you think. It's very therapeutic, but we've not sent it out. Yet.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 15:38:55
Don't forget this: 
With a few of these:
<-- we have audicons !!!
Raine on 09/20/2010 15:38:55
Quote by HouseofNina:
This is more like a party isn't it? I should lighten up.
And another thing, to not vote is to vote Republican. Plus
Don't forget this:
With a few of these:
<-- we have audicons !!!
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 15:47:20
I would love to do that but I have a feeling my finger would hit send by accident
I just wish I could keep my cool and be collected, pointed and elegant when this stuff happens - instead my brain overloads and I can't complete a thought
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 15:47:20
Quote by TriSec:
Morning, comrades! Late to the party - we were recruiting for the Cub Scouts in one of the public schools today.
A couple of observations on volunteer organizations....I have a troublesome parent in my Pack whose mission it is to make the rest of us miserable. We finally had it out last Thursday; I dressed her down in the parking lot after a PTO meeting when she cornered me to whine about another member of the committee. I pretty much told her to grow up or quit, and I got the impression that nobody had ever spoken to her that way. She showed up at the rally today much subdued and did what she was supposed to.
On the tenant's association front, we always joke about the "you all suck" letter we'd love to send. There's a small group of dedicated folks trying to make the neighborhood better, and all we get is complaints from non-participating residents. We have a draft letter telling everyone that they suck, nobody wants to lift a finger, and help out or STFU. Then we say if you disagree with anything we've said here, you are invited to the next meeting to tell us what you think. It's very therapeutic, but we've not sent it out. Yet.
I would love to do that but I have a feeling my finger would hit send by accident
I just wish I could keep my cool and be collected, pointed and elegant when this stuff happens - instead my brain overloads and I can't complete a thought
Comment by 
Scoopster on 09/20/2010 17:03:44
Scoopster on 09/20/2010 17:03:44
Mor...errr afternoon all & Happy Mondee!
Sigh.. they truly are the reincarnation of the Know-Nothings.
Sigh.. they truly are the reincarnation of the Know-Nothings.
Comment by wickedpam on 09/20/2010 17:09:39
wickedpam on 09/20/2010 17:09:39
Nina I love your tagline 
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 17:33:43
JUST once, I would like those on the right to explain how something -- specifically is unconstitutional. Claiming something like Unemployment is an entitlement and therefore unconstitutional has long been refuted. Since like, 1937.
Also see:
Helvering vs. Davis:
George P. Davis was a minor stockholder in the Edison Electric Illuminating Company. Edison, like every industrial employer in the nation, was readying itself to start paying the employers' share of the payroll tax in January 1937. Mr. Davis objected to this arguing that by making this expenditure Edison was robbing him of part of his equity, so he sued Edison to prevent their compliance with the Social Security Act. The government intervened on Edison's behalf and the Commissioner of the IRS (Mr. Helvering) took on the lawsuit.
The attorneys for Davis argued that the payroll tax was a new type of tax not listed in the Constitution's tally of taxes, and so it was unconstitutional. At one point they even introduced into their argument the definitions of "taxes" from dictionaries in 1788 (the year before the Constitution was ratified) to prove how earnest they were in the belief that powers not explicitly granted in 1789 could not be created in 1935. Davis was also of the view that providing for the general welfare of the aged was a power reserved to the states. The government argued that this was too inflexible an interpretation of the powers granted to Congress, and (loosely) that if the country could not expand the interpretation of the Constitution as it stood in 1789 progress would be impossible and it would still be 1789.
Steward Machine Company:
In the Steward Machine Company case the unemployment compensation provisions of the Act were disputed. The Company dutifully paid its first unemployment tax installment ($46.14) and then sued the government to recover the payment, claiming the Social Security Act was unconstitutional. Steward made the same as points as Davis about the meaning of the word "tax," and argued in addition that the unemployment compensation program could not qualify as "providing for the general welfare."
Carmichael vs. Southern Coal & Coke Co. and Gulf States Paper:
This was also a case disputing the validity of the unemployment compensation program. In this variation the companies were challenging the state portion of the federal/state arrangement. Unwilling to pay their share of state unemployment compensation taxes the two companies sued the state of Alabama declaring that it was the Social Security Act, which they deemed unconstitutional, that gave Alabama its authority to tax them in this way and since they believed the Act to be invalid, they did not have to pay the tax. Alabama differed. It was again the same issues as in the two prior cases.
SCOTUS has issued rulings on this subject one more than one occasion. One can say they are of the opinion that it is unconstitutional -- But they need to back it up as to why -- specifically.
A person saying something is unconstitutional does not make it so -- it makes them a person who might mislead people for personal gains. Some might say it might make them a liar, especially when presented with facts that oppose their statement.
OR -- and this is very possible -- they are willfully ignorant to further an agenda.
I'd go with the latter as I believe in the better spirits of people, and that isn't saying much about Mr. Miller.
Raine on 09/20/2010 17:33:43
Quote by Scoopster:
Mor...errr afternoon all & Happy Mondee!
Sigh.. they truly are the reincarnation of the Know-Nothings.
JUST once, I would like those on the right to explain how something -- specifically is unconstitutional. Claiming something like Unemployment is an entitlement and therefore unconstitutional has long been refuted. Since like, 1937.
"We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program."
Also see:
Helvering vs. Davis:
George P. Davis was a minor stockholder in the Edison Electric Illuminating Company. Edison, like every industrial employer in the nation, was readying itself to start paying the employers' share of the payroll tax in January 1937. Mr. Davis objected to this arguing that by making this expenditure Edison was robbing him of part of his equity, so he sued Edison to prevent their compliance with the Social Security Act. The government intervened on Edison's behalf and the Commissioner of the IRS (Mr. Helvering) took on the lawsuit.
The attorneys for Davis argued that the payroll tax was a new type of tax not listed in the Constitution's tally of taxes, and so it was unconstitutional. At one point they even introduced into their argument the definitions of "taxes" from dictionaries in 1788 (the year before the Constitution was ratified) to prove how earnest they were in the belief that powers not explicitly granted in 1789 could not be created in 1935. Davis was also of the view that providing for the general welfare of the aged was a power reserved to the states. The government argued that this was too inflexible an interpretation of the powers granted to Congress, and (loosely) that if the country could not expand the interpretation of the Constitution as it stood in 1789 progress would be impossible and it would still be 1789.
Steward Machine Company:
In the Steward Machine Company case the unemployment compensation provisions of the Act were disputed. The Company dutifully paid its first unemployment tax installment ($46.14) and then sued the government to recover the payment, claiming the Social Security Act was unconstitutional. Steward made the same as points as Davis about the meaning of the word "tax," and argued in addition that the unemployment compensation program could not qualify as "providing for the general welfare."
Carmichael vs. Southern Coal & Coke Co. and Gulf States Paper:
This was also a case disputing the validity of the unemployment compensation program. In this variation the companies were challenging the state portion of the federal/state arrangement. Unwilling to pay their share of state unemployment compensation taxes the two companies sued the state of Alabama declaring that it was the Social Security Act, which they deemed unconstitutional, that gave Alabama its authority to tax them in this way and since they believed the Act to be invalid, they did not have to pay the tax. Alabama differed. It was again the same issues as in the two prior cases.
SCOTUS has issued rulings on this subject one more than one occasion. One can say they are of the opinion that it is unconstitutional -- But they need to back it up as to why -- specifically.
A person saying something is unconstitutional does not make it so -- it makes them a person who might mislead people for personal gains. Some might say it might make them a liar, especially when presented with facts that oppose their statement.
OR -- and this is very possible -- they are willfully ignorant to further an agenda.
I'd go with the latter as I believe in the better spirits of people, and that isn't saying much about Mr. Miller.
Comment by BobR on 09/20/2010 17:38:53
I guess he missed the part about regulating interstate commerce...
BobR on 09/20/2010 17:38:53
Quote by Scoopster:
Mor...errr afternoon all & Happy Mondee!
Sigh.. they truly are the reincarnation of the Know-Nothings.
I guess he missed the part about regulating interstate commerce...
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 17:49:05
I suspect he would say that that is unconstitutional and bring up 10th....
Except -- he'd be wrong.
Raine on 09/20/2010 17:49:05
Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:
Mor...errr afternoon all & Happy Mondee!
Sigh.. they truly are the reincarnation of the Know-Nothings.
I guess he missed the part about regulating interstate commerce...
Except -- he'd be wrong.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 18:50:12
Raine on 09/20/2010 18:50:12
Obama takes on Wall Street -- FACE TO FACE.
Hedge fund manager is looking for sympathy. Obama tells him to STFU.
Hedge fund manager is looking for sympathy. Obama tells him to STFU.
Comment by livingonli on 09/20/2010 20:20:28
Sounds like they are hoping the the Roberts gang of four pull another Citizens United and start bringing back all those Supreme Court rulings against minimum wage/maximum hour laws.
livingonli on 09/20/2010 20:20:28
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
Mor...errr afternoon all & Happy Mondee!
Sigh.. they truly are the reincarnation of the Know-Nothings.
JUST once, I would like those on the right to explain how something -- specifically is unconstitutional. Claiming something like Unemployment is an entitlement and therefore unconstitutional has long been refuted. Since like, 1937."We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program."
Also see:
Helvering vs. Davis:
George P. Davis was a minor stockholder in the Edison Electric Illuminating Company. Edison, like every industrial employer in the nation, was readying itself to start paying the employers' share of the payroll tax in January 1937. Mr. Davis objected to this arguing that by making this expenditure Edison was robbing him of part of his equity, so he sued Edison to prevent their compliance with the Social Security Act. The government intervened on Edison's behalf and the Commissioner of the IRS (Mr. Helvering) took on the lawsuit.
The attorneys for Davis argued that the payroll tax was a new type of tax not listed in the Constitution's tally of taxes, and so it was unconstitutional. At one point they even introduced into their argument the definitions of "taxes" from dictionaries in 1788 (the year before the Constitution was ratified) to prove how earnest they were in the belief that powers not explicitly granted in 1789 could not be created in 1935. Davis was also of the view that providing for the general welfare of the aged was a power reserved to the states. The government argued that this was too inflexible an interpretation of the powers granted to Congress, and (loosely) that if the country could not expand the interpretation of the Constitution as it stood in 1789 progress would be impossible and it would still be 1789.
Steward Machine Company:
In the Steward Machine Company case the unemployment compensation provisions of the Act were disputed. The Company dutifully paid its first unemployment tax installment ($46.14) and then sued the government to recover the payment, claiming the Social Security Act was unconstitutional. Steward made the same as points as Davis about the meaning of the word "tax," and argued in addition that the unemployment compensation program could not qualify as "providing for the general welfare."
Carmichael vs. Southern Coal & Coke Co. and Gulf States Paper:
This was also a case disputing the validity of the unemployment compensation program. In this variation the companies were challenging the state portion of the federal/state arrangement. Unwilling to pay their share of state unemployment compensation taxes the two companies sued the state of Alabama declaring that it was the Social Security Act, which they deemed unconstitutional, that gave Alabama its authority to tax them in this way and since they believed the Act to be invalid, they did not have to pay the tax. Alabama differed. It was again the same issues as in the two prior cases.
SCOTUS has issued rulings on this subject one more than one occasion. One can say they are of the opinion that it is unconstitutional -- But they need to back it up as to why -- specifically.
A person saying something is unconstitutional does not make it so -- it makes them a person who might mislead people for personal gains. Some might say it might make them a liar, especially when presented with facts that oppose their statement.
OR -- and this is very possible -- they are willfully ignorant to further an agenda.
I'd go with the latter as I believe in the better spirits of people, and that isn't saying much about Mr. Miller.
Sounds like they are hoping the the Roberts gang of four pull another Citizens United and start bringing back all those Supreme Court rulings against minimum wage/maximum hour laws.
Comment by Raine on 09/20/2010 22:16:58
Raine on 09/20/2010 22:16:58
Keeristmas-- Our ceiling Fan in the bedroom fell out-- of the ceiling. (actually it's hanging a foot or so from it by one wire) what a mess. Glass sconces broke, lighting outlets are broken and dislodged and a blade flew across the room.
I am NOT happy this evening.
I am NOT happy this evening.
Comment by livingonli on 09/20/2010 23:29:52
livingonli on 09/20/2010 23:29:52
That most definitely sucks.
Comment by TriSec on 09/21/2010 00:23:54
TriSec on 09/21/2010 00:23:54
Yeeouch.
I put our fans in myself; I've been leery ever since that one of them will fall out and the blades will carve us up as we sleep.
(well, not really). But I do have an unnatural fear that I'll be standing watching a helo take off someday and parts of it will fly off and impale me.
I put our fans in myself; I've been leery ever since that one of them will fall out and the blades will carve us up as we sleep.
(well, not really). But I do have an unnatural fear that I'll be standing watching a helo take off someday and parts of it will fly off and impale me.
Comment by wickedpam on 09/21/2010 02:10:11
oh my! no one was hurt I hope
wickedpam on 09/21/2010 02:10:11
Quote by Raine:
Keeristmas-- Our ceiling Fan in the bedroom fell out-- of the ceiling. (actually it's hanging a foot or so from it by one wire) what a mess. Glass sconces broke, lighting outlets are broken and dislodged and a blade flew across the room.
I am NOT happy this evening.
oh my! no one was hurt I hope
Comment by Raine on 09/21/2010 03:22:15
ok. thanks.
This inspires me to replace that fan in a most urgent way.
Do I REALLY need to add this:
?
Raine on 09/21/2010 03:22:15
Quote by TriSec:
Yeeouch.
I put our fans in myself; I've been leery ever since that one of them will fall out and the blades will carve us up as we sleep.
(well, not really). But I do have an unnatural fear that I'll be standing watching a helo take off someday and parts of it will fly off and impale me.
ok. thanks.
This inspires me to replace that fan in a most urgent way.
Do I REALLY need to add this:
?
Comment by Raine on 09/21/2010 03:23:43
Thankfully, no. I am really happy as Kizzy was on the bed when it happened.
Raine on 09/21/2010 03:23:43
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Keeristmas-- Our ceiling Fan in the bedroom fell out-- of the ceiling. (actually it's hanging a foot or so from it by one wire) what a mess. Glass sconces broke, lighting outlets are broken and dislodged and a blade flew across the room.
I am NOT happy this evening.
oh my! no one was hurt I hope