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Ask a Vet - 2012
Author: TriSec    Date: 01/03/2012 11:20:56

Good Morning.

Today is our 3,740th day in Afghanistan.

We'll start this morning as we always do; with the latest casualty figures from our ongoing war, courtesy of Antiwar.com:

US Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 1,863
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 983

We find this morning's Cost of War passing through:

$ 1, 288, 305, 500, 000, 00.



Much was made by the President and the media about troops in Iraq "coming home in time for Christmas". While the bulk of our troops did make it home in time, many more did not, to the bitter disappointment of all involved.


MANAMA, Bahrain — Although she is a relatively new Army wife, 23-year-old Andrea Thane understands things can turn on a dime when it comes to military life.

But a recent Army pivot has left Thane and other spouses and soldiers of the 1st Cavalry Division’s 1st Brigade miffed at their command and the White House.

When announcing the withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Iraq by year’s end, President Barack Obama on Oct. 21 said the remaining 40,000 troops in Iraq would “definitely be home for the holidays.”

“Ironhorse” brigade leadership also announced on the unit’s official Facebook page that soldiers would be coming home early.

“I hope you all left the light on for us,” the Oct. 1 Facebook announcement read, “as the Ironhorse Brigade will be coming home sooner than expected.”

But 1st Brigade didn’t make it home for Christmas.

A new posting emerged on the brigade’s Facebook page Nov. 9, notifying troops and families that the brigade would instead go to Kuwait, filling out the second half of its tour doing security cooperation, joint training and exercises.

This abrupt change led some soldiers and families to cry foul against the White House and brigade command for misleading the unit’s community and causing family members to think their soldiers would be home early. Some also expressed anger over the brigade leadership’s choice to use an informal system like Facebook to disseminate such an important message.

“I was very hurt and let down that they would say it was for sure happening and I got my son’s hopes up by telling him daddy would be home early,” Thane said in an email. “And I had to be the one to tell him he wasn’t coming home early — that someone told mommy and daddy wrong. I myself was prepared for the 12-month deployment but I was not prepared to be put on an emotional roller coaster ride.”

Thane said she understands that “nothing in the Army is set in stone,” but wishes the brigade would have held back on posting anything on Facebook until the facts were clear.

“I don’t feel it should have been posted until they had orders in hand,” Thane said.

“This news is a disappointment and this situation could have easily been avoided by not jumping the gun and telling people something that was not certain,” one commenter wrote on the brigade’s Facebook page.

It has also been painful to see news articles in the past week touting the fact that all U.S. troops are home from Iraq, Thane said.

Brigade soldiers are not upset about their new mission in Kuwait per se, according to one disgruntled brigade officer who asked to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak on the matter.

“This is not Afghanistan,” the officer said. “Most of us have friends there right now who are all having some seriously dark times.”

It’s about the effect on families back home, the officer said, and when families are suffering during a deployment, the soldier suffers.

“We tune into AFN and every other commercial is Michelle Obama and Jill Biden talking about supporting military families and how difficult it is to be a military family,” the officer said.

The decision to keep the brigade in Kuwait was made as the Iraq drawdown was planned, Pentagon spokesman George Little said in an email this week to Stars and Stripes.

“We appreciate the outstanding service of the servicemembers in this unit, and for the sacrifice they and their families make to help protect U.S. interests around the world,” Little said.


Speaking of coming home...you no doubt heard about the soldier that made it back to California and was shot and paralyzed at his own homecoming party during an argument about football? Another Marine has been shot after coming home...but this time he was being a Good Samaritan and is expected to recover.


DEERFIELD BEACH, Fla. — A Marine Corps officer said Friday he reacted as he was trained to do by chasing two men who stole a gold necklace he thought they were buying, and then using his fingers to plug bullet holes in his body when one of them opened fire.

Lt. Col. Karl Trenker, a 29-year Marine Corps veteran who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, demonstrated at a hospital news conference how he stuck his fingers on his left hand into two holes in his left chest and another finger from his right hand where a .22-caliber bullet entered his abdomen. His doctor said the move helped staunch the flow of blood.

“I’m a Marine and I’m not going to run from a fight,” Trenker said. “You wouldn’t want a Marine to run from a fight. Call me crazy, call me stupid. I got shot once and it just angered me more. I wanted to get this guy. I got shot twice, and I re-evaluated that decision. I decided I need to stay alive.”

As for the use of his fingers, Trenker said, “I improvised.”

Trenker, 48, was shot multiple times Dec. 21. He had driven with four of his children to meet a man who responded to a Craigslist ad for the necklace. Two suspects are jailed on attempted murder and robbery charges.

Trenker, who was released Friday from North Broward Medical Center, will be left with one slug lodged in his pelvis but otherwise should make a full recovery, said Dr. Igor Nichiporenko. The doctor credited Trenker’s military training and fitness for his rapid recovery — as well as his use of fingers to plug the bullet holes.

“I think he did the right thing,” Nichiporenko said. “It’s amazing. He’s going to be fine.”


Finally this morning, we'll visit West Point. While just about everyone knows the Military Academy is located there on a magnificent bluff overlooking the Hudson River, it's far less known that a military cemetery every bit as honoured as Arlington is a part of the campus. As you'd expect, many graduates gave their all in service to the country, and many returned to their Alma Mater for their final rest. While the more famed names are from the Civil War and WWII eras...there's a new section for those who served in Iraq. And do take a moment to visit the link and read the entire story.


WEST POINT, N.Y. — Americans will argue for years over what was won in Iraq. To understand what was lost, come to the U.S. Military Academy cemetery and walk through Section 36, a garden of unrealized potential and thwarted dreams that sits on a windy bluff over the Hudson River.

Separated only by a hedge from a parking lot, Section 36 is the newest and least picturesque part of a cramped old graveyard that lacks the sweeping, aching grandeur of Arlington or the American cemetery at Normandy.

But there is loss and ache here enough.

See the big polished granite stone of Emily Perez, the highest-ranking minority female cadet in West Point history. On Sept. 12, 2006, she became the first female academy graduate and the first member of the Class of 2005 to die in Iraq.

At West Point she was command sergeant major, track star, singer and tutor. She started an AIDS ministry at her church. She donated bone marrow to a stranger. They called her “Taz” because, like the cartoon Tasmanian devil, “she spun with energy,” says her sociology professor, Morten Ender. At her funeral, when a classmate called her “a little superwoman,” no one thought it hyperbole.

Walk a few feet and stop at the simple white military-issue marker of Col. Theodore Westhusing. It says he died June 5, 2005.

It doesn’t say that he was a philosophy doctorate-holder who at age 44 left a wife, three kids and a teaching job at West Point to volunteer for Iraq; that he said the experience would make him a better teacher; that he shot himself a month before he was due home, becoming at the time the highest-ranking soldier to die in Iraq.

Move on to the graves of Capts. Stephen Frank and Jay Harting, Michigan boys who graduated from West Point together, went to Iraq together and died together while inspecting a suicide bomber’s car trunk. That was April 29, 2005, two weeks before Harting was due home for the birth of his son.

A few steps away, in Row E, lies 1st Lt. Michael Adams. On March 16, 2004, he was in a convoy headed out of Iraq and toward home when he was killed in a collision with a U.S. contractor’s vehicle. The barrel of his tank swung around on impact, hitting him in the head. He was 24.

“Next time you hear from me,” he had told his parents in an email a few days earlier, “it’ll be from Kuwait.”

A cemetery at war’s end is as much about what never will be as what was. Bill Hecker, ‘91, will never come back to West Point to teach Poe and Twain. Eric Paliwoda, ‘97, will never throw another tailgate party at Michie Stadium. Tom Martin, ‘05, will never make general.

Matthew August, ‘97, will never catch another trout or bag another deer. His classmate, Mike MacKinnon, will never have another burger at the York Bar in his native Helena, Mont.

The cemetery harbors the remains of 19 of the 59 West Point graduates who died in Iraq. They’re among the 4,474 U.S. military personnel killed in that conflict. Although the Iraq war is over, the one in Afghanistan may provide Section 36 with more headstones.

The sense of loss is palpable. It’s like 1st Lt. Phillip Neel’s sister Kelly said when he was killed in 2007: “There’s this huge, gaping hole that can’t be filled.” Yet next June, Neel’s brother Joe graduates from West Point.


Later this morning, the opposition will begin the process to nominate a candidate to take on President Obama. We've spent endless hours arguing over what promises were made and kept, and what was betrayed to us or not. However, here at Ask A Vet, we'd have to rate the President's promises on Iraq as paid in full. Afghanistan will be a second-term project, but the other side would no doubt have us there forever, while at the same time pondering what to do with Iran and continuing to dig us ever-deeper into a no-win scenario. Don't you think we've had enough?
 

53 comments (Latest Comment: 01/03/2012 22:57:54 by Raine)
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Comment by wickedpam on 01/03/2012 13:57:20
Morning



Comment by Mondobubba on 01/03/2012 14:03:08
Hola mon peeps.

Comment by Scoopster on 01/03/2012 14:14:58
Mornin' all..

Comment by BobR on 01/03/2012 14:24:32
I find it odd that the brigade posted info on Facebook. Is this normal? It seems strange to me. It sucks that they had to learn about it this way.

I've been to West Point; I don't remember if we visited the cemetery or not... it was one of those guided tours (perhaps that's a requirement?) and I'm not sure if the cemetery was on the itinerary.

Comment by BobR on 01/03/2012 14:29:47
perhaps related to the other topics in the blog: Green beret carrying explosives arrested trying to board commercial flight

Comment by BobR on 01/03/2012 14:31:54
Jets' coach Ryan pulls a Teabow (the OTHER thing Teabow is known for)

Comment by TriSec on 01/03/2012 14:52:13

Well, well.

It's 2012; I've got 5 months to go for my targeted "beading" date for Woodbadge. I have 2 items done, 1 item needs one more thing, and two other tickets to complete. Just talked to my Scoutmaster - the Den Chief training I need will be on the agenda at the end of this month.

You probably know I've been Cubmaster for the past few years. I'm giving that up in February when Javi graduates to the troop. (Painfully...I rather like being Cubmaster, but I knew going in it wouldn't be permanent.) A new opportunity seems to have landed on my lap. There's been a shakeup at my district, and a number of chairs are open. Including the district training chairman. Of course, this is right up my alley....and after Papa TriSec gave up Unit Commissionering, he went on to be district training chair back at the old Ironworks District.

Sure feels right to me.

http://www.skcbsa.org/images/skcbsaimages/bsa_logo_rwb.gif


Comment by wickedpam on 01/03/2012 14:55:24
have to say I had a hard time keeping the car on the road this morning when the talking head on TOP said Santorum was surging from behind - that's just not right

Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 15:03:34
Good Morning.



Comment by Mondobubba on 01/03/2012 15:09:07
Quote by wickedpam:
have to say I had a hard time keeping the car on the road this morning when the talking head on TOP said Santorum was surging from behind - that's just not right



:digs self from gutter:

Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 15:09:42
So I found out last night that sadly, NO, driving thru dc one cannot hear 1480 AM.

Comment by BobR on 01/03/2012 15:10:27
Good luck with that TriSec!

Comment by wickedpam on 01/03/2012 15:13:20
Quote by Raine:
So I found out last night that sadly, NO, driving thru dc one cannot hear 1480 AM.



heck I live closer to the station and I can't even get it - they really need to boost the signal - seems like its for south easter Prince William and parts of MD

Comment by BobR on 01/03/2012 15:18:42
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
So I found out last night that sadly, NO, driving thru dc one cannot hear 1480 AM.



heck I live closer to the station and I can't even get it - they really need to boost the signal - seems like its for south easter Prince William and parts of MD

well - I'll stream it so they get the online hits anyway...


Comment by Mondobubba on 01/03/2012 15:25:28
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by wickedpam:
have to say I had a hard time keeping the car on the road this morning when the talking head on TOP said Santorum was surging from behind - that's just not right



:digs self from gutter:



The words "Santorum," "surging" and "behind" should never, ever be put togehter in a sentence.

Comment by TriSec on 01/03/2012 15:30:00
I must say, the good Dr. Maddow is rather devastating with her attack on the double-standard the Iowa GOP has when it comes to voter registration and ID rules.



Comment by BobR on 01/03/2012 15:34:22
Quote by TriSec:
I must say, the good Dr. Maddow is rather devastating with her attack on the double-standard the Iowa GOP has when it comes to voter registration and ID rules.


watched that last night - the GOP tool she talked to did his best to dance around the subject, but she made mincemeat of him.

Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 15:36:36
Quote by BobR:
Jets' coach Ryan pulls a Teabow (the OTHER thing Teabow is known for)
Well, it is a sad day when all the shit talk you do blows back in your face....

I'd prolly cry too...


Comment by TriSec on 01/03/2012 15:51:49
Conkid is the capitol of NH.

Concorde is a retired jet.



Comment by wickedpam on 01/03/2012 15:53:45
Quote by TriSec:
Conkid is the capitol of NH.

Concorde is a retired jet.




I thought it was Concurred not Conkid

Comment by TriSec on 01/03/2012 16:00:36
Theah's no ahs in New England.


Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 16:10:32
I swear the media has to know what they are saying when they talk about santorum/

Comment by TriSec on 01/03/2012 16:15:33
Quote by Raine:
I swear the media has to know what they are saying when they talk about santorum/


Check the smirk factor....and everybody is using the term "surge". I don't think I could do it on-camera.




Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 16:27:54
Quote by TriSec:
Quote by Raine:
I swear the media has to know what they are saying when they talk about santorum/


Check the smirk factor....and everybody is using the term "surge". I don't think I could do it on-camera.


I hope they replay the clip from Wolf Blitzer. Bob just mentioned that it has to be the people writing the copy. the heads are just reading it.



Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 16:36:25
So, david Sirota is only asking the question: (from AM 760 FB page)

Is the bigotry of Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul's old newsletters more racist and more of a reason to oppose him than Democrats' support for the racist Drug War, foreign invasions and civil liberties atrocities? Weigh in below in the comments section and Sirota will read out your comments on air!


Mind you, I found this thru THIS tweet from Sirota:
AM760 QUESTION OF THE HOUR: Is bigotry of Paul's newsletters worse than racism of Dems wars/civ lib policies? Weigh in: http://facebook.com/AM760


Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 16:37:19
I am PRETTY damn sure that Sirota didn't say or allude to those things when the previous president was in office.

Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 16:46:45
Wow, Richard wolffe thinks Santorum is going to win the caucus tonite.

Wow.

Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 17:13:27
Ok, I like Robert Reich -- but I think him pushing this Hillary as VP Meme is just kabuki theatre.

I'm surprised Thom would entertain Kabuki theatre, knowing how oft he speaks out against it.

Comment by Scoopster on 01/03/2012 17:40:14
Comment by livingonli on 01/03/2012 17:52:34
Good day folks. Since I didn't have to get up early today I slept late and only caught the tail end of Momma. I hope this KNEW move blows up on crap channel. Notice how Glenn Beck's show has been dropped in a number of markets, so they are trying to keep it afloat by blowing up their best lefty talker to squeeze his crap in there.

Comment by BobR on 01/03/2012 17:57:11
Comment by TriSec on 01/03/2012 18:15:32


When he was our governor, we always used to say maybe his parents really wanted to name him "Tim" but were just dyslexic. Either that, or they really liked baseball.




Comment by Mondobubba on 01/03/2012 18:56:37



The Mittster's real name is Willard, right?

Comment by BobR on 01/03/2012 19:41:38
I saw a few snow flakes flitting around outside a little while ago - the first of this winter.

Fortunately, we are well stocked on milk, bread, and eggs.

Comment by BobR on 01/03/2012 19:41:55
Quote by Mondobubba:



The Mittster's real name is Willard, right?

Yes.

Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 19:48:05
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Mondobubba:



The Mittster's real name is Willard, right?

Yes.
That so many don;t know is name is even sadder a comment.


Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 20:19:40
It's pretty nice to have Randi back on air... LIVE!

Comment by TriSec on 01/03/2012 20:38:19
Random sidebar:

While W. Mitt Romney was Governor, he had a Mr. A. Paul Cellucci as his Lieutenant.


Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 20:40:54
Just as a crazy aside, for those that think Ron Paul is anti war? He's not. To whit I present to you:

Marque and Reprisal Act of 2007 - Authorizes and requests the President to issue letters of marque and reprisal to commission privately armed and equipped persons and entities to seize outside of the United States the person and property of Osama bin Laden, of any al Qaeda co-conspirator, and any conspirator with Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda who are responsible for the air piratical aggressions against the United States on September 11, 2001, and for any planned similar acts or acts of war against the United States in the future.

States that no letter of marque and reprisal shall be issued without the posting of a security bond in such amount as the President determines sufficient to ensure the letter's execution.
This is from 2007. Ron Paul introduced this legislation. I bold faced the information above. IT should be made very clear in my opinion that there is a difference between anti war and privatizing war like activities. The latter, IMO under a Ron Paul president would most likely be without regulations. I would still like to see how this is paid for.

Also in 2007, he voted against a date for the Iraq war pullout. From the NYT, March, 2007.
Two Republicans voted for the measure: Representative Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland, a former Marine Corps officer who was wounded in Vietnam, and Walter B. Jones of North Carolina, who called for a withdrawal nearly two years ago.

But the rest of the Republican caucus objected to the legislation on substance and principle. Several lawmakers derided the total of nearly $24 billion in domestic spending — benefiting spinach growers and shrimp fishermen and peanut storage, among others — that Democrats put into the bill to make it more palatable to its members.
This is the roll call on that vote. You will note, Paul is listed under the Nays.

So we can talk about Paul's issue with foriegn aid -- but I ask you -- WHY do people keep saying he is the only antiwar candidate? He is not. He is for privatizing war.

Comment by livingonli on 01/03/2012 21:13:32
Quote by Raine:
It's pretty nice to have Randi back on air... LIVE!

Too bad you can't get that back in DC. Going home from work last night, I tried to listen on WWRL which runs here delayed at 6 PM and then I realized how bad WWRL reception is after sunset when trying to listen in the car. At least driving in, I can listen live on XM.

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/03/2012 21:18:43
Mondo continues his depressing reading This is going to be a continuing theme throughout the year.

Comment by Mondobubba on 01/03/2012 21:20:19
Quote by Raine:
Just as a crazy aside, for those that think Ron Paul is anti war? He's not. To whit I present to you:

Marque and Reprisal Act of 2007 - Authorizes and requests the President to issue letters of marque and reprisal to commission privately armed and equipped persons and entities to seize outside of the United States the person and property of Osama bin Laden, of any al Qaeda co-conspirator, and any conspirator with Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda who are responsible for the air piratical aggressions against the United States on September 11, 2001, and for any planned similar acts or acts of war against the United States in the future.

States that no letter of marque and reprisal shall be issued without the posting of a security bond in such amount as the President determines sufficient to ensure the letter's execution.
This is from 2007. Ron Paul introduced this legislation. I bold faced the information above. IT should be made very clear in my opinion that there is a difference between anti war and privatizing war like activities. The latter, IMO under a Ron Paul president would most likely be without regulations. I would still like to see how this is paid for.

Also in 2007, he voted against a date for the Iraq war pullout. From the NYT, March, 2007.
Two Republicans voted for the measure: Representative Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland, a former Marine Corps officer who was wounded in Vietnam, and Walter B. Jones of North Carolina, who called for a withdrawal nearly two years ago.

But the rest of the Republican caucus objected to the legislation on substance and principle. Several lawmakers derided the total of nearly $24 billion in domestic spending — benefiting spinach growers and shrimp fishermen and peanut storage, among others — that Democrats put into the bill to make it more palatable to its members.
This is the roll call on that vote. You will note, Paul is listed under the Nays.

So we can talk about Paul's issue with foriegn aid -- but I ask you -- WHY do people keep saying he is the only antiwar candidate? He is not. He is for privatizing war.


Hey issuing letters of Marque and Reprisal is totally constitutional. What's your beef? :grin:


Comment by Mondobubba on 01/03/2012 21:29:02
BTW Walter B. Jones is Papa and Momma Mondo's Congress Critter.

Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 21:37:33
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Just as a crazy aside, for those that think Ron Paul is anti war? He's not. To whit I present to you:

Marque and Reprisal Act of 2007 - Authorizes and requests the President to issue letters of marque and reprisal to commission privately armed and equipped persons and entities to seize outside of the United States the person and property of Osama bin Laden, of any al Qaeda co-conspirator, and any conspirator with Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda who are responsible for the air piratical aggressions against the United States on September 11, 2001, and for any planned similar acts or acts of war against the United States in the future.

States that no letter of marque and reprisal shall be issued without the posting of a security bond in such amount as the President determines sufficient to ensure the letter's execution.
This is from 2007. Ron Paul introduced this legislation. I bold faced the information above. IT should be made very clear in my opinion that there is a difference between anti war and privatizing war like activities. The latter, IMO under a Ron Paul president would most likely be without regulations. I would still like to see how this is paid for.

Also in 2007, he voted against a date for the Iraq war pullout. From the NYT, March, 2007.
Two Republicans voted for the measure: Representative Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland, a former Marine Corps officer who was wounded in Vietnam, and Walter B. Jones of North Carolina, who called for a withdrawal nearly two years ago.

But the rest of the Republican caucus objected to the legislation on substance and principle. Several lawmakers derided the total of nearly $24 billion in domestic spending — benefiting spinach growers and shrimp fishermen and peanut storage, among others — that Democrats put into the bill to make it more palatable to its members.
This is the roll call on that vote. You will note, Paul is listed under the Nays.

So we can talk about Paul's issue with foriegn aid -- but I ask you -- WHY do people keep saying he is the only antiwar candidate? He is not. He is for privatizing war.


Hey issuing letters of Marque and Reprisal is totally constitutional. What's your beef? :grin:

My beef is not the constitutionality. I'm trying to point out a few things that Paul supports seems to be missing.

I think you know my beef.

Also It should be noted that it is part of the powers of congress. Article 1 section 8 -- (trying to do my research) that Paul wanted to give the POTUS MORE power not less. it appears to me that even tho this is a power of congress, as stated above,
Authorizes and requests the President to issue letters of marque and reprisal to commission privately armed and equipped persons and entities to seize outside of the United States the person and property of Osama bin Laden,
passed the buck from Congress to the executive office.

The enumerated powers of these letters lies with the congress.





Comment by Raine on 01/03/2012 21:40:06
I have a huge beef with people saying one thing about Ron PAul when he seems to be quite consistent about voting against the things he says.

He voted FOR the Afghanistan occupation. He claims to be a civil libertarian who has said that women who are harassed in the workplace should go find another job --or deal with it at home.



Comment by Mondobubba on 01/03/2012 21:58:20
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Just as a crazy aside, for those that think Ron Paul is anti war? He's not. To whit I present to you:

Marque and Reprisal Act of 2007 - Authorizes and requests the President to issue letters of marque and reprisal to commission privately armed and equipped persons and entities to seize outside of the United States the person and property of Osama bin Laden, of any al Qaeda co-conspirator, and any conspirator with Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda who are responsible for the air piratical aggressions against the United States on September 11, 2001, and for any planned similar acts or acts of war against the United States in the future.

States that no letter of marque and reprisal shall be issued without the posting of a security bond in such amount as the President determines sufficient to ensure the letter's execution.
This is from 2007. Ron Paul introduced this legislation. I bold faced the information above. IT should be made very clear in my opinion that there is a difference between anti war and privatizing war like activities. The latter, IMO under a Ron Paul president would most likely be without regulations. I would still like to see how this is paid for.

Also in 2007, he voted against a date for the Iraq war pullout. From the NYT, March, 2007.
Two Republicans voted for the measure: Representative Wayne Gilchrest of Maryland, a former Marine Corps officer who was wounded in Vietnam, and Walter B. Jones of North Carolina, who called for a withdrawal nearly two years ago.

But the rest of the Republican caucus objected to the legislation on substance and principle. Several lawmakers derided the total of nearly $24 billion in domestic spending — benefiting spinach growers and shrimp fishermen and peanut storage, among others — that Democrats put into the bill to make it more palatable to its members.
This is the roll call on that vote. You will note, Paul is listed under the Nays.

So we can talk about Paul's issue with foriegn aid -- but I ask you -- WHY do people keep saying he is the only antiwar candidate? He is not. He is for privatizing war.


Hey issuing letters of Marque and Reprisal is totally constitutional. What's your beef? :grin:

My beef is not the constitutionality. I'm trying to point out a few things that Paul supports seems to be missing.

I think you know my beef.

Also It should be noted that it is part of the powers of congress. Article 1 section 8 -- (trying to do my research) that Paul wanted to give the POTUS MORE power not less. it appears to me that even tho this is a power of congress, as stated above,
Authorizes and requests the President to issue letters of marque and reprisal to commission privately armed and equipped persons and entities to seize outside of the United States the person and property of Osama bin Laden,
passed the buck from Congress to the executive office.

The enumerated powers of these letters lies with the congress.






My response to a bill about letters of marque and reprisal is this:

:Pats Ron Paul on the head: How quaint Congressman! Please join the rest of us in the 21st Century.

Comment by livingonli on 01/03/2012 21:58:45
Quote by Raine:
I have a huge beef with people saying one thing about Ron PAul when he seems to be quite consistent about voting against the things he says.

He voted FOR the Afghanistan occupation. He claims to be a civil libertarian who has said that women who are harassed in the workplace should go find another job --or deal with it at home.


Not to mention I don't think he has any problem with federal anti-abortion laws and he has also stated that he is against separation of church and state and has apparently no problem with the teaching of Creationism either. Hardly the views of a Libertarian.