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Birth of the Deathers
Author: BobR    Date: 05/06/2011 12:48:57

The Barack Obama 2008 ascendency to President touched off a backlash among a small minority. What started as a sleazy campaign trick to question his citizenship turned into a conspiracy theory among his haters. No matter what evidence was presented, there would be no convincing these people that he actually was (is) a U.S. citizen. The publicity of it had died off until Donald Trump breathed new life into it. Several days before the Navy SEAL operation that took out Osama bin Laden, President Obama released his long-form birth certificate to help put the matter to rest.

That dovetailed nicely with the joint military/CIA action in Pakistan. As the Birther issue was dying the Deather issue was being born, in a curious "circle of life" coincidence.

For those not in the know, "Deathers" are those who question the official story of the operation. In a mirroring of the Birthers, most are people on the left side of the political spectrum, and most are people who subscribe to every political conspiracy theory that comes along. In their minds, everything the government says or does is a lie to cover up some nefarious "truth" that They (with a capital "T") are trying to hide. It's a complex web of intrigue worthy of Hollywood, and impossible to believe if you notice just how often the government screws up the simplest of things (oh wait - that's just part of the act so that you won't believe what they're really capable of, blah blah blah... see my previous post on conspiracy theories here).

The problem with the Deather conspiracy theory is how much evidence there is that goes against the theory. Let's look at the most popular one:

Theory: Osama bin Laden has been dead for years, and this was staged so the government can . Some say he was captured and killed in 2002, while others believe he died in the caves of Afghanistan from kidney failure. I certainly thought the latter was a distinct possibility prior to this action, since he had been able to elude capture for so long.

Reality: This doesn't make sense, since bin Laden was more valuable to fear-based military action if the American people thought he was still alive. The risks of failure - loss of life to our most elite fighting force, expensive stealth helicopters, the embarrasment of another Somalia-type failure - would greatly outweight the benefits for pretending to capture someone that didn't exist anymore.

Besides all the rationales for why it wouldn't make sense to fake it, there's the actual evidence:

This mountain of evidence is even giving Glenn Greenwald pause, as he is now criticizing the action as if it occurred as reported, not as he has previously theorized. At this point, one would have to believe that the Pakistani police, Osama bin Laden's family, and the al-Jazeera news network were all "in on it". Ludicrous...

Theory: The raid went as planned, but Osama bin Laden was actually taken alive - OR - it was not Osama bin Laden that was taken (dead).

Reality: Considering the negative flak that Gitmo (and how to try the prisoners there) has raised, capturing him alive would be of limited value, once any information had been gleaned. There's also the fact that Osama bin Laden's daughter has said that her father was unarmed and in custody when the SEALs shot him. That is certainly a black eye for the U.S. and the SEALs, and will likely spark an investigation, and is cause for valid outrage. If one is going to be outraged by this, however, then it completely renders the Deather conspiracy theories moot. You can't be outraged that he was "murdered" after being captured alive and still believe he was dead all along, taken to a secret prison, or that someone else's body was retrieved. Even if you doubt the girl's story, there's still the other evidence previously mentioned.

The Deathers are the same ones that subscribe to the MIHOP 9/11 theory, that the massive bird deaths of months past are not just a natural phenomenon that occurs all the time, and that the Japan earthquake was man-made. There is no story too absurd that they will not believe it, rather than the more mundane (and logical) "official" explanation. Are their lives so empty and meaningless that they feel the need to fight to expose some "truth"? They are mostly good people who also fight for economic justice and equal rights, so I can't dismiss them out of hand. It's discouraging, though, when they fight against the people that are helping to slowly move things in the right direction again.

On the positive side, I don't see the Deathers sticking around as long as the Birthers have. In a few more weeks, there will be some fresh outrage for them to mainline, and the Deather issue will be tossed aside like an empty crack vial. Such are the actions of those addicted to conspiracy theory.

Bonus Click: Here's another take on the Deather conspiracies.
 

54 comments (Latest Comment: 05/06/2011 22:06:19 by BobR)
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Comment by wickedpam on 05/06/2011 13:01:28
Morning

See now I see the deathers sticking around as long as the people who think there was a shooter on the grassy knoll - granted they'll be marginalized but there will also be people who only believe it when they see it.

Comment by BobR on 05/06/2011 13:15:58
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning

See now I see the deathers sticking around as long as the people who think there was a shooter on the grassy knoll - granted they'll be marginalized but there will also be people who only believe it when they see it.

True - but it will not be a front-page story anymore. It will lose focus.

Comment by TriSec on 05/06/2011 13:19:35
Come on, the whole thing was staged in the same studio that shot the Apollo "landing".



Comment by Scoopster on 05/06/2011 13:21:29
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee!!

Started getting a cold yesterday.. not stuffed up but my throat/eyes/sinuses are VERY dried out which is really odd. Anyways I took some stuff and between that, the coffee and the Ricola drops I actually feel really awesome.

BTW, today is the birthday of our good friend HBK, so drop her some lovins!

Comment by wickedpam on 05/06/2011 13:26:37
Quote by BobR:
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning

See now I see the deathers sticking around as long as the people who think there was a shooter on the grassy knoll - granted they'll be marginalized but there will also be people who only believe it when they see it.

True - but it will not be a front-page story anymore. It will lose focus.



true

Comment by TriSec on 05/06/2011 13:29:12
Remember when people used to say "the camera doesn't lie"?

Even if the photos get released now, there's still going to be a subset that won't believe it. After all, look how easily my own Senator was duped by the internet fakes out there.

Maybe Al-Qaeda itself confirming his death today might help quiet things down. Who you going to believe, the President, or the terrorists? (of course, to the doubters, they are one in the same.)




Comment by Raine on 05/06/2011 13:38:42
Good morning!

Comment by Raine on 05/06/2011 13:56:16
Quote by TriSec:
Remember when people used to say "the camera doesn't lie"?

Even if the photos get released now, there's still going to be a subset that won't believe it. After all, look how easily my own Senator was duped by the internet fakes out there.

Maybe Al-Qaeda itself confirming his death today might help quiet things down. Who you going to believe, the President, or the terrorists? (of course, to the doubters, they are one in the same.)


funny you say that, Al-Qaeda has confirmed his death.

Freepers still think it is a conspiracy... <---you'll be wanting a shower after this click. So let me give you a few choice statements.

It was probably posted by someone named “JihadBarry” hoping to keep people from asking for details.

If the jihadists are saying he's dead, that's further confirmation that he's undergoing enhanced interrogation at a remote location.

So whats the over/under that folks here are going to believe he’s dead..I say 31%...



Comment by wickedpam on 05/06/2011 14:09:31
chicago

Comment by wickedpam on 05/06/2011 14:37:10
YOu know that there's a csx train that runs right through DC, mere blocks from the Capitol

Comment by Raine on 05/06/2011 14:40:25
Comment by Raine on 05/06/2011 14:41:08
Quote by wickedpam:
YOu know that there's a csx train that runs right through DC, mere blocks from the Capitol

Yup, and they go UNDER the island of Manhattan.



Comment by TriSec on 05/06/2011 15:28:34


I saw that. Wonder if it's because of the crappy Pratt & Whitney engines?

(I know, I know. gotta give Brother TriSec and GE Riverworks props, y'know.)



Comment by TriSec on 05/06/2011 15:30:02
Quote by Raine:

Yup, and they go UNDER the island of Manhattan.




Don't mess with trains....don't forget there have been a couple of recent incidents where a lone gasoline tanker has tipped over on the highway and blown up, thus taking out significant portions of roadway for long periods of time. A train full of the stuff would be exponentially more.

(Tip: look up "BLEVE" on YouTube to see what a tanker full of chemicals can do when it has a bad day.)




Comment by livingonli on 05/06/2011 15:46:50
Good morning everyone. Randi was talking about this yesterday but she seemed to be focusing on the Righties who are now arguing that they should have read Osama's rights or that he was an innocent and these are the same people who would have been crwoing victory laps if Chimpy McCokeSpoon had actually done what he promised..

Comment by TriSec on 05/06/2011 15:49:14
Really. This isn't the Onion.

Of course, my issue is the whole half-staff thing in the first place.

[No disrespect intendend rant]

Whenever a firefighter, police officer, local soldier, or even a random person of local note meets his reward, the flag gets lowered to half-staff as a matter of course. Completely without presidential authorization. As a sign of national mourning, only the President can order the flag lowered to half-staff. Not the Congress, not the governor, and certainly not the local authorities. It's mind-boggling what the people in Ohio assumed. But given that what should be the highest honour this nation can give has been so cheapened by how commonplace it's become shouldn't really be a surprise.

[endrant]




Comment by Raine on 05/06/2011 16:00:06
ProFlowers sucks. Even with the Stephanie code, a twenty dollar order ended up like this:


One Dozen Rainbow Mother's Day Roses: $19.99
Glass Ginger: Free!
Standard Delivery $9.99
Saturday Delivery $9.99
Rural Delivery $2.99
Care & Handling $4.99
Tax: $3.84
TOTAL: $51.79


(To which, I closed the browser window)

Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 16:01:33
Looks like my email problems are solved for the time being. Nice day to take a walk and go to lunch.

Comment by wickedpam on 05/06/2011 16:03:06
Quote by Raine:
ProFlowers sucks. Even with the Stephanie code, a twenty dollar order ended up like this:


One Dozen Rainbow Mother's Day Roses: $19.99
Glass Ginger: Free!
Standard Delivery $9.99
Saturday Delivery $9.99
Rural Delivery $2.99
Care & Handling $4.99
Tax: $3.84
TOTAL: $51.79


(To which, I closed the browser window)



It might be cheaper just to do Teleflora or FTD from an actual flower shop

Comment by livingonli on 05/06/2011 16:03:31
AP News is just saying that Al-Qaeda has confirmed OBL"s death and are promising revenge. I guess the Deathers won't believe that either.

Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 16:09:35
Quote by livingonli:
AP News is just saying that Al-Qaeda has confirmed OBL"s death and are promising revenge. I guess the Deathers won't believe that either.


And of course if AQ retaliates, THEN Obama will get "credit"

Comment by BobR on 05/06/2011 16:10:19
Quote by Raine:
ProFlowers sucks. Even with the Stephanie code, a twenty dollar order ended up like this:


One Dozen Rainbow Mother's Day Roses: $19.99
Glass Ginger: Free!
Standard Delivery $9.99
Saturday Delivery $9.99
Rural Delivery $2.99
Care & Handling $4.99
Tax: $3.84
TOTAL: $51.79


(To which, I closed the browser window)

"Care & Handling $4.99" - seriously?? Can I pay less and have them just throw it at the house? Isn't "care and handling" something you sort of expect by default?

Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 16:16:47
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Raine:
ProFlowers sucks. Even with the Stephanie code, a twenty dollar order ended up like this:


One Dozen Rainbow Mother's Day Roses: $19.99
Glass Ginger: Free!
Standard Delivery $9.99
Saturday Delivery $9.99
Rural Delivery $2.99

Care & Handling $4.99
Tax: $3.84
TOTAL: $51.79


(To which, I closed the browser window)


"Care & Handling $4.99" - seriously?? Can I pay less and have them just throw it at the house? Isn't "care and handling" something you sort of expect by default?


Sounds like the typical "plus shipping and handling" BS taken to the extreme

Comment by Raine on 05/06/2011 16:20:25
The rural delivery charge is bullshit as well. ---

Comment by livingonli on 05/06/2011 16:34:47
Sounds like Pro Flowers makes it profit on delivery fees.

Comment by wickedpam on 05/06/2011 16:40:19
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Raine:
ProFlowers sucks. Even with the Stephanie code, a twenty dollar order ended up like this:


One Dozen Rainbow Mother's Day Roses: $19.99
Glass Ginger: Free!
Standard Delivery $9.99
Saturday Delivery $9.99
Rural Delivery $2.99
Care & Handling $4.99
Tax: $3.84
TOTAL: $51.79


(To which, I closed the browser window)

"Care & Handling $4.99" - seriously?? Can I pay less and have them just throw it at the house? Isn't "care and handling" something you sort of expect by default?



I just re-ordered checks, not only did I get a shipping fee, a processing fee and a security fee and there was still a handling fee.

Comment by TriSec on 05/06/2011 16:43:09
I know a certain outdoor outfitter that's just gone back to the "old days" and is once again offering free shipping across the board. Although if you're ordering your dear mother a kayak for Sunday, there will be a freight charge.



Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 16:49:28
Quote by Raine:
The rural delivery charge is bullshit as well. ---


They probably define "rural" as everything not Midtown Manhattan

Surprised they haven't added a "fuel surcharge"


Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 16:52:04
Since oil had plummeted in the last few days, I wonder if we'll see even a penny drop at the pump.

I'll wait until you all stop laughing........

Comment by livingonli on 05/06/2011 16:53:05
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Since oil had plummeted in the last few days, I wonder if we'll see even a penny drop at the pump.

I'll wait until you all stop laughing........

Still got to make those record profits.

Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 16:55:31
When oil is going up - "we need to charge more to be able to purchase new stock"
When oil is going down - "you're still paying for the expensive oil"
For Mobil stations - "you're still paying for Lee Raymond's retirement"

Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 17:03:19
Quote by TriSec:
I know a certain outdoor outfitter that's just gone back to the "old days" and is once again offering free shipping across the board. Although if you're ordering your dear mother a kayak for Sunday, there will be a freight charge.



It's nice that the outfitter is only a few minutes walk from here. If I ever decide to not be a couch potato again....

Shame the Borders closed down. It still says they're hiring on the door.


Comment by Raine on 05/06/2011 17:03:33
So I remembered that Germantown has a locally owned florist. I called them up, and for a whopping delivery charged of 3 dollars plus tax, I was able to send this:
 http://teleflora.edgesuite.net/images/products/HW0_34677.jpg


There is something terribly wrong when a 20 dollar bouquet cost more to ship than the bouquet itself. I feel way better now.

Comment by wickedpam on 05/06/2011 17:08:39
Quote by Raine:
So I remembered that Germantown has a locally owned florist. I called them up, and for a whopping delivery charged of 3 dollars plus tax, I was able to send this:
 http://teleflora.edgesuite.net/images/products/HW0_34677.jpg


There is something terribly wrong when a 20 dollar bouquet cost more to ship than the bouquet itself. I feel way better now.



pretty! I used to do that with a florist downing in NC when mom lived there - it was way cheaper and supported the local business

Comment by Raine on 05/06/2011 17:08:41
I think it is more proof that buying local is always better, even when you are not local.

Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 17:17:45
Ummmmm OK.

FTFA

2. Where does the electricity go?

The power flows from the wind turbines into the state power grid connecting to the grid in Little Falls, Copleman said.

Electrons tend to take the path of least resistance and flow downhill, so it's likely that the homes and businesses in closest proximity to the power source are drawing most of the power generated at that source, he said. Once the power enters the grid, however, electrons can flow hundreds or thousands of miles, so the power also could end up being used much farther away, he said.





Comment by Raine on 05/06/2011 17:25:49
Comment by Scoopster on 05/06/2011 19:02:52
UGGHGHGHGH... this day is dragging along itssoslowicanttakeitanymore!!

Comment by TriSec on 05/06/2011 19:05:23
Well, oil is back down under $100/bbl.

Does that mean I'll be paying $4.01 instead of $4.05 this weekend?



Comment by livingonli on 05/06/2011 19:13:52
Quote by TriSec:
Well, oil is back down under $100/bbl.

Does that mean I'll be paying $4.01 instead of $4.05 this weekend?


It's between $4.15 and $4.21 here and I haven't seen it budge.

Comment by TriSec on 05/06/2011 19:37:04






Nevermind. I felt like dancing bananas.



Comment by TriSec on 05/06/2011 19:41:32
Say, has anyone noticed that many Mitt supporters are heading for the lifeboats?

Note to non-New Englanders: I wouldn't put much stock in Mitt's lead in the NH polls right now. At the end of the day, he's a Massachusetts politician, and if he can't win next door, he's all done.

(You could look it up...it's not a stretch to claim that every single Mass politician that has run for president has won the NH primary. There may be one or two exceptions.)



Comment by BobR on 05/06/2011 20:15:24
Quote by trojanrabbit:
When oil is going up - "we need to charge more to be able to purchase new stock"
When oil is going down - "you're still paying for the expensive oil"
For Mobil stations - "you're still paying for Lee Raymond's retirement"

I am so stealing this

Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 20:22:16
Quote by BobR:
Quote by trojanrabbit:
When oil is going up - "we need to charge more to be able to purchase new stock"
When oil is going down - "you're still paying for the expensive oil"
For Mobil stations - "you're still paying for Lee Raymond's retirement"

I am so stealing this


I see. Steal away.

Comment by BobR on 05/06/2011 20:22:23
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Ummmmm OK.

FTFA

2. Where does the electricity go?

The power flows from the wind turbines into the state power grid connecting to the grid in Little Falls, Copleman said.

Electrons tend to take the path of least resistance and flow downhill, so it's likely that the homes and businesses in closest proximity to the power source are drawing most of the power generated at that source, he said. Once the power enters the grid, however, electrons can flow hundreds or thousands of miles, so the power also could end up being used much farther away, he said.




So electricity flows through a series of tubes, just like the internet?

Comment by BobR on 05/06/2011 20:23:30

He turned me into a newt!


... I got better...

Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 20:26:16
Quote by BobR:
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Ummmmm OK.

FTFA

2. Where does the electricity go?

The power flows from the wind turbines into the state power grid connecting to the grid in Little Falls, Copleman said.

Electrons tend to take the path of least resistance and flow downhill, so it's likely that the homes and businesses in closest proximity to the power source are drawing most of the power generated at that source, he said. Once the power enters the grid, however, electrons can flow hundreds or thousands of miles, so the power also could end up being used much farther away, he said.




So electricity flows through a series of tubes, just like the internet?


Generally it's explained that electrons seek the "lowest potential" which is usually Ground. So it gets mixed up with the water analogy going downhill. At least he got the path of least resistance right.

I expect that type of thinking from Lisa Douglas from Hooterville, not from the project manager.

The article got posted next to the coffee machine. Periodic guffaws come from that area.


Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 20:28:42
Quote by BobR:

He turned me into a newt!


... I got better...


Calling Doctor Bombay....


Comment by trojanrabbit on 05/06/2011 20:32:16
Quote by TriSec:
Well, oil is back down under $100/bbl.

Does that mean I'll be paying $4.01 instead of $4.05 this weekend?



I got some at 3.899 this morning. It will probably be 4.019 on the way home.

Thanks.