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The Gingrich Who Stole Childhoods
Author: BobR
Date: 12/09/2011 13:35:40
In a campaign year full of surprises, perhaps one of the biggest surprises is the resurgence of Newt Gingrich. While it's true he hadn't peaked yet like the other candidates that have risen to the top, only to fall again, he was all but written off months ago. Now that he's the new darling, he is getting a lot more "face time" with the press. Of course, this means he also has been given more opportunities to stick his foot in it, and boy has he.
It's not like he came into this untainted. He was run out of the House for ethics violations. He's had two affairs (that we know of) and three wives. He has a bad habit of shifting money from his non-profits into his own pockets.
But it's his recent comments on childhood that give one pause:
Work ethic:
Child Labor:
It's not like we shouldn't have seen this coming. Back in 2008, Gingrich was declaring that we should do away with adolescence, and move kids directly from childhood to young adulthood:
There's plenty more jaw-dropping stuff like this at the link. Go ahead and read - I'll wait...
While the other candidates want to turn the clock back to the 50s, Gingrich wants to turn the clock back to the 1800s. He seems to be more than willing to blame poor kids for being poor, and blaming all kids for being kids. His plan isn't to create jobs, it's to put more adults out of work and hire kids in their place. I guess he thinks kids won't unionize.
It does make one wonder what sort of childhood Newt Gingrich had. Was he up at the crack of dawn, working to help support his family? A year ago, he created a fantasy of his past as American as apple pie (made by Grandmas, not kids in factories):
in reality, he was an Army brat, and lived in Europe for several years before moving back to America. There's nothing there about working at 13. Like most kids, he had big dreams and goals, but that doesn't translate into sweeping floors at his school. It seems to be another case of "do as I say, not as I did". It's also interesting that he wanted nothing more than a career in politics, where he'd essentially be living off taxpayer money.
He was also hot for teacher, marrying his high school geometry teacher a year out of high school. Now THAT'S what I call ambition realized.
Ultimately, Newt is a career politician who rails against government. He's a leech sucking at the teat of his various fund-raising schemes and non-profits, while proclaiming the problem in this country is a poor work ethic. He criticized Clinton for his dalliances while he was in the middle of an affair himself. In a country full of sleazy, hypocritical politicians, Gingrich is king.
It's not like he came into this untainted. He was run out of the House for ethics violations. He's had two affairs (that we know of) and three wives. He has a bad habit of shifting money from his non-profits into his own pockets.
But it's his recent comments on childhood that give one pause:
Work ethic:
Really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no habits of working, and have nobody around them who works. So they literally have no habit of showing up on Monday. They have no habit of staying all day. They have no habit of ‘I do this and you give me cash,’ unless it’s illegal.
Child Labor:
You say to somebody, you shouldn't go to work before you're what, 14, 16 years of age, fine," Mr. Gingrich said. "You're totally poor. You're in a school that is failing with a teacher that is failing. I've tried for years to have a very simple model. Most of these schools ought to get rid of the unionized janitors, have one master janitor and pay local students to take care of the school. The kids would actually do work, they would have cash, they would have pride in the schools, they'd begin the process of rising.
It's not like we shouldn't have seen this coming. Back in 2008, Gingrich was declaring that we should do away with adolescence, and move kids directly from childhood to young adulthood:
The solution is dramatic and unavoidable: We have to end adolescence as a social experiment. We tried it. It failed. It's time to move on. Returning to an earlier, more successful model of children rapidly assuming the roles and responsibilities of adults would yield enormous benefit to society.
Prior to the 19th century, it's fair to say that adolescence did not exist.
[..]
It's time to change this—to shift to serious work, learning, and responsibility at age 13 instead of age 30.
There's plenty more jaw-dropping stuff like this at the link. Go ahead and read - I'll wait...
While the other candidates want to turn the clock back to the 50s, Gingrich wants to turn the clock back to the 1800s. He seems to be more than willing to blame poor kids for being poor, and blaming all kids for being kids. His plan isn't to create jobs, it's to put more adults out of work and hire kids in their place. I guess he thinks kids won't unionize.
It does make one wonder what sort of childhood Newt Gingrich had. Was he up at the crack of dawn, working to help support his family? A year ago, he created a fantasy of his past as American as apple pie (made by Grandmas, not kids in factories):
Speaking of childhood, he makes his sound ideal. His family were the kind of people that "Norman Rockwell captures in his pictures," he says, stiff-necked individualists who "came out of the mountains from small farms" and served in World War II, people who had "an old-fashioned deep belief in citizenship" that was "like living at Mount Vernon kind of stuff." He speaks fondly of the "lovely older lady" who used to listen to his stories, the newspaper editor who first published him, the aunt who made sugar pies, the grandmother who had an "old-fashioned belief in citizenship," even the crusty old bureaucrat who spent an afternoon telling a ten-year-old why the town couldn't afford to build a zoo. And no, he never felt like an oddball. "I felt unique in a way that I think every American should feel unique — if I wanted to open up a lemonade stand, I opened up a lemonade stand."
in reality, he was an Army brat, and lived in Europe for several years before moving back to America. There's nothing there about working at 13. Like most kids, he had big dreams and goals, but that doesn't translate into sweeping floors at his school. It seems to be another case of "do as I say, not as I did". It's also interesting that he wanted nothing more than a career in politics, where he'd essentially be living off taxpayer money.
He was also hot for teacher, marrying his high school geometry teacher a year out of high school. Now THAT'S what I call ambition realized.
Ultimately, Newt is a career politician who rails against government. He's a leech sucking at the teat of his various fund-raising schemes and non-profits, while proclaiming the problem in this country is a poor work ethic. He criticized Clinton for his dalliances while he was in the middle of an affair himself. In a country full of sleazy, hypocritical politicians, Gingrich is king.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
Raine on 12/09/2011 13:42:02
Raine on 12/09/2011 13:42:02
Wow. I knew he was awful -- but that busnessweek article is a stunner.
he actually supported that program in Atlanta that paid poor kids to do schoolwork??
good morning!
he actually supported that program in Atlanta that paid poor kids to do schoolwork??
good morning!
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 13:51:32
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 13:51:32
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 13:53:41
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 13:53:41
As far as I am concerned Newt is crass opportunist who's consituancy is made up of one person, Newt Gingrich. He will stop at nothing to grab onto power and then when he has it he will misuse it.
Comment by 
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 13:53:43
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 13:53:43
Morning 
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:01:55
stupid dust *snif*
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:01:55
Quote by Mondobubba:
This is a great story of true love. :sniffle: Damn allergies!
stupid dust *snif*
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:03:50
Isn't it great???
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:03:50
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:
This is a great story of true love. :sniffle: Damn allergies!
stupid dust *snif*
Isn't it great???
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:07:02
love those kinds of story's
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:07:02
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:
This is a great story of true love. :sniffle: Damn allergies!
stupid dust *snif*
Isn't it great???
love those kinds of story's
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:08:22
Stories, mala. STORIES! That is the plural of story! :vein behind eye bulges dangerously:
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:08:22
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:
This is a great story of true love. :sniffle: Damn allergies!
stupid dust *snif*
Isn't it great???
love those kinds of story's
Stories, mala. STORIES! That is the plural of story! :vein behind eye bulges dangerously:
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:10:51
Its morning and I'm still sleepy, my brain doesn't work rights before noon
oh and finally saw the last epi of TWD! O.M.G!
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:10:51
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:
This is a great story of true love. :sniffle: Damn allergies!
stupid dust *snif*
Isn't it great???
love those kinds of story's
Stories, mala. STORIES! That is the plural of story! :vein behind eye bulges dangerously:
Its morning and I'm still sleepy, my brain doesn't work rights before noonoh and finally saw the last epi of TWD! O.M.G!
Comment by 
BobR on 12/09/2011 14:13:06
That's pretty much the same thing that happened with Raine's sister
BobR on 12/09/2011 14:13:06
Quote by Mondobubba:
This is a great story of true love. :sniffle: Damn allergies!
That's pretty much the same thing that happened with Raine's sister
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:13:43
aaawwww
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:13:43
Quote by BobR:Quote by Mondobubba:
This is a great story of true love. :sniffle: Damn allergies!
That's pretty much the same thing that happened with Raine's sister
aaawwww
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:14:43
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:14:43
Okay, why was I under then impression that Newty was a "poor" kid growing up - that timeline sounds more like he and his family were doing pretty well when he was growing up
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 14:19:37
Wow, that is REALLY a lot like my sister and her partner!
Strange Irony, I lived in Deer Park, Lawnguyland...
Raine on 12/09/2011 14:19:37
Quote by BobR:Quote by Mondobubba:
This is a great story of true love. :sniffle: Damn allergies!
That's pretty much the same thing that happened with Raine's sister
Strange Irony, I lived in Deer Park, Lawnguyland...
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 14:21:51
Raine on 12/09/2011 14:21:51
Sister and BIL even went to the Prom together. She is the one with a 17 year old daughter. They had a baby together -- and he is about 3 now.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:30:14
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:30:14
Hey, I watch Ion for the Criminal Minds and Psyhic reruns 
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:38:00
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:38:00
Isn't Alan Grayson from FLorida? Or maybe its Randi
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 14:38:42
not Randi.
and that is all I am allowed to say.
Raine on 12/09/2011 14:38:42
Quote by wickedpam:
Isn't Alan Grayson from FLorida? Or maybe its Randi
and that is all I am allowed to say.
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 14:39:47
Raine on 12/09/2011 14:39:47
Is it me, or does this leave you with a bad taste:
Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz Says Mortuary Problems Identified And Fixed
Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz Says Mortuary Problems Identified And Fixed
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:41:45
hhmmmm - you do get all the good lib radio gossip! You need your own show
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:41:45
Quote by Raine:not Randi.Quote by wickedpam:
Isn't Alan Grayson from FLorida? Or maybe its Randi
and that is all I am allowed to say.
hhmmmm - you do get all the good lib radio gossip! You need your own show
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:44:25
I knew when they paused in gunning down walkers that Sophia was gonna be the last one out! it was pretty brutal.
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:44:25
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:
This is a great story of true love. :sniffle: Damn allergies!
stupid dust *snif*
Isn't it great???
love those kinds of story's
Stories, mala. STORIES! That is the plural of story! :vein behind eye bulges dangerously:
oh and finally saw the last epi of TWD! O.M.G!
I knew when they paused in gunning down walkers that Sophia was gonna be the last one out! it was pretty brutal.
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:47:24
Military remains or not, it seems to me that dumping ashes in a landfill is totally disrespectful. I would like to know if this is a common practice in the civilian side of things.
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:47:24
Quote by Raine:
Is it me, or does this leave you with a bad taste:
Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz Says Mortuary Problems Identified And Fixed
Military remains or not, it seems to me that dumping ashes in a landfill is totally disrespectful. I would like to know if this is a common practice in the civilian side of things.
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:48:20
I saw in passing some right wing trope that says Jefferson himself didn't do this.
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:48:20
Quote by Raine:
Jefferson's Bible is now on display at the Smithsonian
I saw in passing some right wing trope that says Jefferson himself didn't do this.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:48:39
If you haven't seen The Walking Dead mid-season finale and care too
Mondo - it was kind of a give away with all the Sophia talk and even her own mother surmising(sp) that they may not find her alive
I thought it was interesting that the group (minus Rick and with Glen only with premission from Maggie) was so willing to shoot Herschel's family but only Rick could shoot Sophia
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:48:39
If you haven't seen The Walking Dead mid-season finale and care too
Mondo - it was kind of a give away with all the Sophia talk and even her own mother surmising(sp) that they may not find her alive
I thought it was interesting that the group (minus Rick and with Glen only with premission from Maggie) was so willing to shoot Herschel's family but only Rick could shoot Sophia
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 14:51:01
In the article, it says this: So I think this might be common practice.
That in and of itself is wretched. You know, what I find really amazing is this: There are thousands of unclaimed parts from the 9/11 attacks. They have been carefully handled and will be part of the memorial -- a tomb will be built for it.
Raine on 12/09/2011 14:51:01
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
Is it me, or does this leave you with a bad taste:
Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz Says Mortuary Problems Identified And Fixed
Military remains or not, it seems to me that dumping ashes in a landfill is totally disrespectful. I would like to know if this is a common practice in the civilian side of things.
"Clearly, the officials at the mortuary at the time believed it was acceptable to deal with these portions in a manner which occurs in medical surgeries or autopsies," Schwartz said in the interview, conducted Thursday after The Post's report. "I won't justify what happened, but it's important to know that the employees at the mortuary came to the conclusion themselves in 2008 that there was a more dignified way to do this."
That in and of itself is wretched. You know, what I find really amazing is this: There are thousands of unclaimed parts from the 9/11 attacks. They have been carefully handled and will be part of the memorial -- a tomb will be built for it.
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:51:51
It was very interesting how that played out. The group seems to be fracturing along some very interesting lines.
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:51:51
Quote by wickedpam:
If you haven't seen The Walking Dead mid-season finale and care too
Mondo - it was kind of a give away with all the Sophia talk and even her own mother surmising(sp) that they may not find her alive
I thought it was interesting that the group (minus Rick and with Glen only with premission from Maggie) was so willing to shoot Herschel's family but only Rick could shoot Sophia
It was very interesting how that played out. The group seems to be fracturing along some very interesting lines.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:53:27
Very. Shane going ape crap crazy certainly foreshadows a very interesting Feb return
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:53:27
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:
If you haven't seen The Walking Dead mid-season finale and care too
Mondo - it was kind of a give away with all the Sophia talk and even her own mother surmising(sp) that they may not find her alive
I thought it was interesting that the group (minus Rick and with Glen only with premission from Maggie) was so willing to shoot Herschel's family but only Rick could shoot Sophia
It was very interesting how that played out. The group seems to be fracturing along some very interesting lines.
Very. Shane going ape crap crazy certainly foreshadows a very interesting Feb return
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:54:17
Bingo! So nobody from the begining said, 'Hey these are the remains of war dead. Regardless if it just a toe or finger they need to be treated with the utmost respect." If somebody did say it, why didn't they act on then??
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 14:54:17
Quote by Raine:In the article, it says this:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
Is it me, or does this leave you with a bad taste:
Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz Says Mortuary Problems Identified And Fixed
Military remains or not, it seems to me that dumping ashes in a landfill is totally disrespectful. I would like to know if this is a common practice in the civilian side of things.So I think this might be common practice."Clearly, the officials at the mortuary at the time believed it was acceptable to deal with these portions in a manner which occurs in medical surgeries or autopsies," Schwartz said in the interview, conducted Thursday after The Post's report. "I won't justify what happened, but it's important to know that the employees at the mortuary came to the conclusion themselves in 2008 that there was a more dignified way to do this."
That in and of itself is wretched. You know, what I find really amazing is this: There are thousands of unclaimed parts from the 9/11 attacks. They have been carefully handled and will be part of the memorial -- a tomb will be built for it.
Bingo! So nobody from the begining said, 'Hey these are the remains of war dead. Regardless if it just a toe or finger they need to be treated with the utmost respect." If somebody did say it, why didn't they act on then??
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 14:54:57
figures.
Maybe that trope should read the history over at this link, it is fascinating.
Raine on 12/09/2011 14:54:57
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
Jefferson's Bible is now on display at the Smithsonian
I saw in passing some right wing trope that says Jefferson himself didn't do this.
Maybe that trope should read the history over at this link, it is fascinating.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:55:30
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 14:55:30
Its really ticking me off that they are going back to all these places before hitting some very big places first 
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 14:58:15
It is my understanding that the Families agreed to this cremation because someone told them that the remains would be treated with respect.
I think that might be the rub. What this looks like to me is a series of no one being accountable to and for the dead.
Raine on 12/09/2011 14:58:15
Quote by Mondobubba:
Bingo! So nobody from the begining said, 'Hey these are the remains of war dead. Regardless if it just a toe or finger they need to be treated with the utmost respect." If somebody did say it, why didn't they act on then??
I think that might be the rub. What this looks like to me is a series of no one being accountable to and for the dead.
Comment by 
velveeta jones on 12/09/2011 15:16:49
velveeta jones on 12/09/2011 15:16:49
Omg y'all, my schedule has been CRAZY! Is it too late for bj? (Blogger Joe, you dirty minded sob).
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:18:08
I think I can finagle(sp?) something
Would Auntie A like to join in too?
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:18:08
Quote by velveeta jones:
Omg y'all, my schedule has been CRAZY! Is it too late for bj? (Blogger Joe, you dirty minded sob).
I think I can finagle(sp?) something
Would Auntie A like to join in too?
Comment by velveeta jones on 12/09/2011 15:20:23
yes!
velveeta jones on 12/09/2011 15:20:23
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by velveeta jones:
Omg y'all, my schedule has been CRAZY! Is it too late for bj? (Blogger Joe, you dirty minded sob).
I think I can finagle(sp?) something
Would Auntie A like to join in too?
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:20:58
same address and email as last year?
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:20:58
Quote by velveeta jones:yes!Quote by wickedpam:Quote by velveeta jones:
Omg y'all, my schedule has been CRAZY! Is it too late for bj? (Blogger Joe, you dirty minded sob).
I think I can finagle(sp?) something
Would Auntie A like to join in too?
same address and email as last year?
Comment by velveeta jones on 12/09/2011 15:22:41
Yep
velveeta jones on 12/09/2011 15:22:41
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by velveeta jones:yes!Quote by wickedpam:Quote by velveeta jones:
Omg y'all, my schedule has been CRAZY! Is it too late for bj? (Blogger Joe, you dirty minded sob).
I think I can finagle(sp?) something
Would Auntie A like to join in too?
same address and email as last year?
Yep
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:23:37
okay
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:23:37
Quote by velveeta jones:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by velveeta jones:yes!Quote by wickedpam:Quote by velveeta jones:
Omg y'all, my schedule has been CRAZY! Is it too late for bj? (Blogger Joe, you dirty minded sob).
I think I can finagle(sp?) something
Would Auntie A like to join in too?
same address and email as last year?
Yep
okay
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 15:42:47
Shane is clearly to tightly wrapped for the post zompacalypse world. That spring has popped.
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 15:42:47
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:
If you haven't seen The Walking Dead mid-season finale and care too
Mondo - it was kind of a give away with all the Sophia talk and even her own mother surmising(sp) that they may not find her alive
I thought it was interesting that the group (minus Rick and with Glen only with premission from Maggie) was so willing to shoot Herschel's family but only Rick could shoot Sophia
It was very interesting how that played out. The group seems to be fracturing along some very interesting lines.
Very. Shane going ape crap crazy certainly foreshadows a very interesting Feb return
Shane is clearly to tightly wrapped for the post zompacalypse world. That spring has popped.
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 15:47:11
Raine on 12/09/2011 15:47:11
wait... wut?
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 15:47:38
Where does the respect end? Dover has always done a fabulous job of providing full military honors for the returning dead. it would seem that respected ended with the creamation and then the handling of the ashes.
Hell I left Mrs Mondo's ashes in the trunk of my car for like eight months. I'm glad I did, because when I decided to scatter them at the beach at St Augustine on the spur of the moment, they were there.
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 15:47:38
Quote by Raine:It is my understanding that the Families agreed to this cremation because someone told them that the remains would be treated with respect.Quote by Mondobubba:
Bingo! So nobody from the begining said, 'Hey these are the remains of war dead. Regardless if it just a toe or finger they need to be treated with the utmost respect." If somebody did say it, why didn't they act on then??
I think that might be the rub. What this looks like to me is a series of no one being accountable to and for the dead.
Where does the respect end? Dover has always done a fabulous job of providing full military honors for the returning dead. it would seem that respected ended with the creamation and then the handling of the ashes.
Hell I left Mrs Mondo's ashes in the trunk of my car for like eight months. I'm glad I did, because when I decided to scatter them at the beach at St Augustine on the spur of the moment, they were there.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:51:07
okay don't seem to have your email so I can contact on FB or you could send me an email with both addresses - wickedm@verizon.net
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:51:07
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by velveeta jones:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by velveeta jones:yes!Quote by wickedpam:Quote by velveeta jones:
Omg y'all, my schedule has been CRAZY! Is it too late for bj? (Blogger Joe, you dirty minded sob).
I think I can finagle(sp?) something
Would Auntie A like to join in too?
same address and email as last year?
Yep
okay
okay don't seem to have your email so I can contact on FB or you could send me an email with both addresses - wickedm@verizon.net
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:52:00
popped? heck that thing not only popped it took out a door, a wall, a minivan and an eye
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 15:52:00
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by wickedpam:
If you haven't seen The Walking Dead mid-season finale and care too
Mondo - it was kind of a give away with all the Sophia talk and even her own mother surmising(sp) that they may not find her alive
I thought it was interesting that the group (minus Rick and with Glen only with premission from Maggie) was so willing to shoot Herschel's family but only Rick could shoot Sophia
It was very interesting how that played out. The group seems to be fracturing along some very interesting lines.
Very. Shane going ape crap crazy certainly foreshadows a very interesting Feb return
Shane is clearly to tightly wrapped for the post zompacalypse world. That spring has popped.
popped? heck that thing not only popped it took out a door, a wall, a minivan and an eye
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 15:56:54
that's a really good point.
I'm conflicted about this, I admit. I think the difference here might be that you always had the choice with regards to what to do with Mrs. Mondo's ashes. I hope that makes sense. I don;t think this should shine a bad light on Dover -- but rather what happened afterward.
Raine on 12/09/2011 15:56:54
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:It is my understanding that the Families agreed to this cremation because someone told them that the remains would be treated with respect.Quote by Mondobubba:
Bingo! So nobody from the begining said, 'Hey these are the remains of war dead. Regardless if it just a toe or finger they need to be treated with the utmost respect." If somebody did say it, why didn't they act on then??
I think that might be the rub. What this looks like to me is a series of no one being accountable to and for the dead.
Where does the respect end? Dover has always done a fabulous job of providing full military honors for the returning dead. it would seem that respected ended with the creamation and then the handling of the ashes.
Hell I left Mrs Mondo's ashes in the trunk of my car for like eight months. I'm glad I did, because when I decided to scatter them at the beach at St Augustine on the spur of the moment, they were there.
I'm conflicted about this, I admit. I think the difference here might be that you always had the choice with regards to what to do with Mrs. Mondo's ashes. I hope that makes sense. I don;t think this should shine a bad light on Dover -- but rather what happened afterward.
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 16:08:58
Yes,, exactly, it was my choice. I can see where you are conflicted about this. I have to think about these families who had been told about the respect that Dover shows to returning war dead. I see where there is a sense of betrayal on the part of the families, treated ashes in the same way you would treat medical was is to me icky. That was at one time a part of a person. On the other hand, I fully understand that Dover was using an "industry standard" on partial remains. I think the big difference between partial remains in other areas and Dover is this; they died in war, serving the country. That to my mind means a higher standard of conduct with the bits and pieces.
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 16:08:58
Quote by Raine:that's a really good point.Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:It is my understanding that the Families agreed to this cremation because someone told them that the remains would be treated with respect.Quote by Mondobubba:
Bingo! So nobody from the begining said, 'Hey these are the remains of war dead. Regardless if it just a toe or finger they need to be treated with the utmost respect." If somebody did say it, why didn't they act on then??
I think that might be the rub. What this looks like to me is a series of no one being accountable to and for the dead.
Where does the respect end? Dover has always done a fabulous job of providing full military honors for the returning dead. it would seem that respected ended with the creamation and then the handling of the ashes.
Hell I left Mrs Mondo's ashes in the trunk of my car for like eight months. I'm glad I did, because when I decided to scatter them at the beach at St Augustine on the spur of the moment, they were there.
I'm conflicted about this, I admit. I think the difference here might be that you always had the choice with regards to what to do with Mrs. Mondo's ashes. I hope that makes sense. I don;t think this should shine a bad light on Dover -- but rather what happened afterward.
Yes,, exactly, it was my choice. I can see where you are conflicted about this. I have to think about these families who had been told about the respect that Dover shows to returning war dead. I see where there is a sense of betrayal on the part of the families, treated ashes in the same way you would treat medical was is to me icky. That was at one time a part of a person. On the other hand, I fully understand that Dover was using an "industry standard" on partial remains. I think the big difference between partial remains in other areas and Dover is this; they died in war, serving the country. That to my mind means a higher standard of conduct with the bits and pieces.
Comment by Raine on 12/09/2011 16:10:43
Raine on 12/09/2011 16:10:43
Just a moment to get back to the Blog topic...
Did you know this about Newt? I know that at the time, (and still now) we focused on that Tiffany's account... but I think it is REALLY important to notice that while Newt is busy 'questioning' climate change -- he is more than happy to invest in companies that create renewable energies.
Did you know this about Newt? I know that at the time, (and still now) we focused on that Tiffany's account... but I think it is REALLY important to notice that while Newt is busy 'questioning' climate change -- he is more than happy to invest in companies that create renewable energies.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 16:13:29
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 16:13:29
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 16:15:34
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 16:15:34
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! I was just subjected to "Sweet Home Alabama" as hold music. Ugh! The HORROR! :wimpers: Hold me.
Comment by wickedpam on 12/09/2011 16:35:44
wickedpam on 12/09/2011 16:35:44
are you still on hold?
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 16:41:16
No thank goodness! I am scared for the rest of the day!
Mondobubba on 12/09/2011 16:41:16
Quote by wickedpam:
are you still on hold?
No thank goodness! I am scared for the rest of the day!