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Author: TriSec    Date: 12/20/2011 11:20:14

Good Morning.

Today is our 3,714th day in Afghanistan.

We'll start this morning as we always do; with a final accounting of the numbers from Iraq, courtesy of Antiwar.com:

American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 4484
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 4345
Since Handover (6/29/04): 3625
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09): 255
Since Operation New Dawn: 66

And although the cost of war continues to run for both conflicts, as of this morning the Iraq number was passing through:

$ 807, 740, 220, 000 .00


I expect it will be quite some time, indeed if we ever know, what the final cost of the Iraq war was to the United States.

I had contemplated simply posting a list of the war dead today, but there are some things to ponder after leaving Iraq. But there is a list of casualties you may want to spend some time looking over.

So it is finished. After 3,192 days at war, we hauled down the flag and came home. After many of our wars, there were victory parades, a grateful nation, and hope for the future for our returning vets. Alas...veterans themselves are sharing an air of uncertainty, even as they come home.


Even as US forces are packing up and preparing to end a war that has cost the lives of 4,485 of their comrades and more than 100,000 Iraqi civilians, some troops report feeling an unexpected emotion as the mission here draws to a close: dread.

It’s the fear, US military officials say, of what occasionally awaits soldiers on the home front when they return, from fiscal uncertainty to relationship woes.

Troops who deployed to escape their troubles, officials add, are increasingly grappling with the notion that as the wars wind down, they have nowhere left to go but home.

“A lot of people here dread the thought of going back – that has surprised me,” says Lt. Col. Mark Rowan, an Air Force chaplain who counsels troops returning from Iraq and Kuwait. “You’d think it would be high-fives and a happy time, but you’ll find that some don’t want to go home. Some of them left to get away from problems – financial problems, marriage problems – and now they have to face them.”

US forces must leave Iraq by Dec. 31 in accord with an agreement reached between the two countries in 2008. Commanders are aware that even for troops counting the days to the war’s end, the transition can be trickier than they expect. “It’s harder coming home than leaving –anyone will tell you that,” says Col. Michael Gaal, vice commander for the 321st Air Expeditionary Wing in Baghdad. “You think it’s going to be all cotton-candy clouds and unicorns, but it’s different.”

Relationships may be strained after years of deployments, and spouses and children – after the initial flurry of hugs and relief – often need time to readjust to the presence of their returning loved one, Colonel Gaal says.

These difficulties are increasingly compounded for troops coming home amid an economic downturn. Many service members – once guaranteed work fighting – are now suddenly worried about being out of a job.

Others volunteered to deploy specifically because they were having trouble finding work back home. "I had met people who are unemployed due to the economy – that's why they came here," says Staff Sgt. Teresa Pavljuk, a National Guardsman who supervises the military flight terminal in Baghdad.

Even those who are active-duty military are worried about job security. “A lot of them are scared, because with the bad economy, the military’s going to downsize.That means a lot of them are going to be out,” Lieutenant Colonel Rowan says.

“That’s going to be a concern for us,” adds Command Chief Master Sgt. Jerry Delebreau for the 321st Air Expeditionary Wing in Baghdad. “It might be hard for some people.”

When the Air Force announced in late October that it was cutting 157 officers from its ranks due to the increasingly strong budget pressures facing the Pentagon, some airmen took it personally.

“They are in shock. They are angry,” Rowan says. “They feel betrayed.”

The news that, not only were they out of a job, but they would also have to leave the service – along with the life and community they have known – by March 1 hit particularly hard, he adds.

The counseling of troops who were cut from the ranks becomes “basically a talk on self-worth,” Rowan says.

After fighting two wars, “some of them just want to know – what did I do wrong?” he adds. “I had one guy, he said, ‘I can’t understand what I did wrong. I can’t understand. I feel like such a loser.’

“I tell them, ‘You did nothing wrong. You’re not a loser. It’s a function of the budget – you’re being downsized,’ ” Rowan says. “You can’t give them an answer or a job, which you’d love to do.”



Troops coming home are also looking in the rear-view mirror with a sense of uncertainty as well. It turns out that the soldiers also have the same questions that many of us here do; "Was it worth it?" The answers are not as cut and dried as the media would have us believe.


BAGHDAD — After nearly nine years of war in Iraq, was it worth it?

As the U.S. military ends its mission in Iraq, Stars and Stripes spoke with 20 soldiers and airmen currently serving in Iraq and asked them that question.

The servicemembers came from varying jobs and backgrounds. Most have served multiple tours in Iraq. Many knew people in their units who lost their lives.

Their responses varied markedly. Some expressed optimism for Iraq’s long-term future, while others said that the war amounted to a waste of effort and life.

But the dominant conclusion that servicemembers came to on the war’s worth was this: We think so, but we don’t really know yet.

“If [the Iraqis] continue on the path they’re on, it was worth it,” said Air Force Staff Sgt. Charlie Ford, of Omak, Wash., a joint tactical air controller attached to the 1st Cavalry Division out of Fort Hood, Texas. Most of the American public does not appear to agree.

In a November Washington Post-ABC News poll, 62 percent of Americans said “no” when asked, “Considering the costs to the United States versus the benefits to the United States, do you think the war in Iraq was worth fighting?”

After 25 successive polls, opinion has barely changed since December 2006, when 61 percent said the same thing.

Servicemembers who strongly believed that the war was worth fighting attributed the poll results to either ignorance or lack of interest in what they’ve been doing.

“The American people are just like brand new soldiers,” said 1st Lt. Justin Hackett, of Beloit, Kan. “A limited point of view breeds negativity.”

Hackett, who spent 2011 in Basra with the 215th Brigade Support Battalion, 1st Cavalry Division, served as an enlisted sniper section leader in 2004 at Camp War Eagle, located in the violent Baghdad slum of Sadr City.

Sophisticated attacks from cleric Muqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army and other anti-American forces came daily. Hackett still grapples with the tough calls he made during that chaotic time — the innocent man he shot at, the bomber he didn’t — yet he remains an ardent exponent of the war’s accomplishments.

“From a strategic side, yes, it was a success, having seen what it was like in 2003 and what it’s gone to,” Hackett said. “Where it will go is anyone’s guess.”

The Iraq war toll is far more staggering than most servicemembers ever imagined when the war began in March 2003: About 4,500 U.S. servicemembers have died and another 32,000 have been wounded, according to U.S. estimates.

Roughly 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died from violence since 2003, according to U.S. and Iraqi figures, and the United Nations estimates that 1.5 million Iraqis are either refugees or internally displaced.

Among Iraqis, many who opposed the U.S. war effort, hold it responsible for the bloody sectarian fighting between Kurdish, Sunni and Shi’a Arab groups that still festers.

“Everyone really was grateful that the U.S. got rid of Saddam,” said an Iraqi who served in the Saddam-era Iraqi army, and now works for an official in the reconstituted Iraqi army. “But before that, nobody cared if you were Sunni or Shia. That only came with the Americans. I think [Western nations] fear what would happen if Arabs united.”

Most servicemembers do not see themselves as responsible for Iraq’s troubles; instead, they view themselves as the element opposing corruption and sectarian troubles through fighting, building infrastructure and training Iraq’s security forces.

Sgt. Christopher Mendez, of Yuma, Ariz., served his final Iraq tour during 2011 in Basra with Hackett, and his first tour in 2004.

The first time Mendez rode through the gate during that initial tour at Camp Cuervo, in Baghdad’s northeast, a rocket-propelled grenade whizzed by his window.

“That’s when it became real, that these guys really want to kill me,” Mendez said. “Every day before we rolled out the gate, I’d think, ‘Is this the day?’ For the whole year, it was like that every single day.”

Later in his tour, Mendez stepped out of his vehicle when a mortar landed, sending six pieces of shrapnel into his leg. He was hospitalized for four months, and then returned to his unit.

Mendez said the tour was so intense that he has blocked parts of it out of his mind.

He then talked about the decreases in violence since the darkest days of the insurgency, and concluded that the war was worth fighting.

“One view is that it really is better,” Mendez said. “The other side is that you’re internally justifying it. You force yourself to look at the good, so it’s justified. I’d like to say I avoided doing that.”


I've saved a couple of stories from the end of the war that I'll try to catch up on before the end of the year...but there is a final accounting that's yet to come. It will be years before historians sort through everything and can give us a clearer picture on what went on...but for now, here is the first attempt to make sense of the last 9 years.


Reckoning the costs of war in Iraq will take years, especially the impact on US prestige and power in the world. Historians, political scientists, and economists will write doctoral dissertations on the subject, and some will devote careers to calculating and analyzing the data and each others’ conclusions – as continues to be the case with the Vietnam War.

The center is a progressive, nonprofit think tank and advocacy organization in Washington, founded in 2003 by former Clinton administration chief of staff John Podesta.

The organization's inclinations are clearly left-of-center, but the figures in its “Iraq War Ledger” are taken from nonpartisan sources, including the Congressional Research Service, icasualties.org, the Defense Department, the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, the Centers for Disease Control, and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).

Here are some of the main points:

Human Costs

Coalition deaths totaled 4,803, of which 4,484 (93 percent) were American. The number of Americans wounded was 32,200. At least 463 non-Iraqi contractors were killed.

Iraqi civilian deaths are estimated to total between 103,674 and 113,265.

The UNHCR says the war resulted in 1.24 million internally displaced persons and more than 1.6 million refugees.

Financial costs

The Congressional Research Service puts the dollar cost of Operation Iraqi Freedom at $806 billion.

In their book “The Three Trillion Dollar War,” Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes estimate the projected total cost of veterans’ health care and disability payments to be between $422 billion and $717 billion.

Veterans

More than 2 million US service members have served in Iraq or Afghanistan (many in both wars).

The total number of Iraq/Afghanistan veterans eligible for Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) health care is 1,250,663, half of whom (625,384) have used VA health care since 2002.

The number of Iraq/Afghanistan veterans diagnosed with Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is at least 168,854 – more than a quarter of those who have used VA health care.

The suicide rate for Iraq/Afghanistan veterans using VA health care in FY 2008 was 38 suicides per 100,000 veterans – more than three times the national suicide rate for the previous year.

Iraq reconstruction

Total funding: $182.27 billion.

Iraqi government funds (including Coalition Provisional Authority funding): $107.41 billion.

International funds: $13.03 billion.

US funds (2003-2011): $61.83 billion. As a basis for comparison, the US after World War II spent $34.3 billion in Germany and $17.6 billion in Japan on post-war reconstruction. (All figures in 2011 dollars.)

The cost of war is more than numbers, of course. Losing a family member or a lifetime of disability are incalculable.

“The end of former Iraq President Saddam Hussein’s brutal regime represents a considerable global good, and a nascent democratic Iraqi republic partnered with the United States could potentially yield benefits in the future,” Duss and Juul of the Center for American Progress write. “But when weighing those possible benefits against the costs of the Iraq intervention, there is simply no conceivable calculus by which Operation Iraqi Freedom can be judged to have been a successful or worthwhile policy.”

That’s a political and historical judgment that no doubt will be debated for years.


Now all we need to do is finish in Afghanistan...then I can put this column to rest.
 

43 comments (Latest Comment: 12/21/2011 00:49:08 by BobR)
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Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 13:27:39
Morning

Comment by Mondobubba on 12/20/2011 13:52:38
Hello.

Comment by Scoopster on 12/20/2011 14:00:13
Mornin' all..

Was a little bit MIA yesterday.. stayed up until 2AM Monday morning baking & frosting cookies and ended up sleeping thru everything, including work. I think I finally got moving about.. 3PMish?

Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 14:01:51
and I thought I had a late baking night on Sunday

Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 14:12:45
wow - Mike in Raleigh

Comment by Scoopster on 12/20/2011 14:27:26
Comment by Scoopster on 12/20/2011 14:34:23
Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 14:44:35
I'm really getting tired of the fat jokes

Comment by Raine on 12/20/2011 14:46:14


Good morning!

Comment by TriSec on 12/20/2011 14:52:23
Quote by wickedpam:
and I thought I had a late baking night on Sunday


My onslaught starts Thursday night...pretty much straight through to Saturday morning. I don't bake an awful lot, but all the Italian stuff is labour-intensive. None of it is a small batch, either.

http://www.webanswers.com/post-images/2/27/7723583F-106E-F7AC-58369FDBE8D75E0C.jpg


Comment by BobR on 12/20/2011 14:52:24
We all would like to the see the military budget downsized, but then you read about how it affects veterans who decided to stay in the military, and you reminds you that budget = real working people.

Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 15:01:35
hmm - so you notice that the new Repub talking point is we "want to extend the benefit for the whole year"

Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 15:03:23
Quote by TriSec:
Quote by wickedpam:
and I thought I had a late baking night on Sunday


My onslaught starts Thursday night...pretty much straight through to Saturday morning. I don't bake an awful lot, but all the Italian stuff is labour-intensive. None of it is a small batch, either.

http://www.webanswers.com/post-images/2/27/7723583F-106E-F7AC-58369FDBE8D75E0C.jpg



You and Scoop are doing some heavy baking lifting cause I'll I'm knocking out this year is a cake and some cashew haystacks

Comment by TriSec on 12/20/2011 15:04:32
I don't think we've ever had a "peace dividend" after any of our wars. But I have seen recently the cancellation of the F-135 engine (at long last) and the last F-22 Raptor rolling off the line. Plus the military vehicle whose name eludes me that was cancelled (Dr. Maddow's cause celebre).

So there is something happening on the budget front. Of course, I'd love to see the USS Enterprise retired to a museum ship on schedule in 2015...but how about we don't replace her with another carrier and use the billions for something else?


Comment by Mondobubba on 12/20/2011 15:22:07
Glen Greenwald makes me have a PSA moment. ;eye, vein, itch, etc.:

Comment by BobR on 12/20/2011 15:23:13
Quote by Mondobubba:
Glen Greenwald makes me have a PSA moment. ;eye, vein, itch, etc.:

Have you seen his latest poorly researched innuendo-laden crap-fest?

Comment by Mondobubba on 12/20/2011 15:26:10
Comment by Mondobubba on 12/20/2011 15:27:50
Quote by BobR:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Glen Greenwald makes me have a PSA moment. ;eye, vein, itch, etc.:

Have you seen his latest poorly researched innuendo-laden crap-fest?



That would be the one causing the PSA moment! The headline was enough.

Comment by Mondobubba on 12/20/2011 15:33:54
Lady, honestly are telling me that you don't how to copy and paste a friggin URL into an email??????

Comment by Scoopster on 12/20/2011 15:41:48
Quote by TriSec:
My onslaught starts Thursday night...pretty much straight through to Saturday morning. I don't bake an awful lot, but all the Italian stuff is labour-intensive. None of it is a small batch, either.

Do you make the pine nut cookies? I was wondering if it's better to like freeze that dough before dosing it out onto the baking sheet, because that shit gets MESSY!


Comment by Raine on 12/20/2011 15:43:48
This is a little fascinating to me.
"I wonder if you're aware that 10% of the population is gay. And if you have 28 children, then 2.8 of those kids are very likely gay."

The congresswoman, within definite earshot as she hovered over Schnell, at first seemed to avoid the question, trying to say "hello" to someone new.

Schnell turned to her friend and said, "She's not listening to me."

Bachmann must have heard that because she then turned back.

"Well, that's according to the Kinsey Report," the candidate replied.

Dr. Alfred Kinsey is best known for conducting interviews with thousands of individuals and publishing his findings in books on human sexual behavior during the 1940s and '50s.

Bachmann's husband, who runs a clinic in their district in Minnesota that has long been accused of conducting "reparative therapy" by trying to help gay individuals become straight, then chimed in.

"Your facts are wrong," he said.

"That's not valid?" Schnell asked back.

"No it isn't," Michele Bachmann said. Her husband added, "No, it's not at all. It's been a myth for many years."


Comment by velveeta jones on 12/20/2011 15:56:28
Yay for the final Ask a Vet Iraqi version!!!

Thanks to all our troops, hope y'all can find a decent job upon return.

Comment by TriSec on 12/20/2011 16:04:55
Quote by Scoopster:

Do you make the pine nut cookies? I was wondering if it's better to like freeze that dough before dosing it out onto the baking sheet, because that shit gets MESSY!


No....but the soft-dough cookie is probably in the same class. It needs to be just on the tacky side, and it sticks to everything before baking. I never thought about freezing it - I know that's a tip for sugar cookies, especially cutouts.



Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 16:33:34
good lord its only 11:32am

Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 16:58:31
isn't raw milk kinda gross?

Comment by TriSec on 12/20/2011 17:05:26
Quote by wickedpam:
isn't raw milk kinda gross?


I suppose it's OK if you're a bovine foundling. I find the entire concept of milk to be kinda gross. (which doesn't stop me from using it in my coffee, and even drinking it on ocassion.)

However, the raw milk folks always seem to be shouting about the so-called health benefits. Wouldn't it be better to drink the milk of your own species, which is intended for the same thing? I don't see much call for a human milk industry, but I digress.




Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 17:08:56
Quote by TriSec:
Quote by wickedpam:
isn't raw milk kinda gross?


I suppose it's OK if you're a bovine foundling. I find the entire concept of milk to be kinda gross. (which doesn't stop me from using it in my coffee, and even drinking it on ocassion.)

However, the raw milk folks always seem to be shouting about the so-called health benefits. Wouldn't it be better to drink the milk of your own species, which is intended for the same thing? I don't see much call for a human milk industry, but I digress.





just seems if it were the "raw" type of milk it was be warm and kind of thick but I've only seen in on TV.

Comment by livingonli on 12/20/2011 17:14:06
Good day everyone. Another day starting slow although I do have to work tonight.

Comment by TriSec on 12/20/2011 17:56:03
And now the "lucid" portion of the day ends. We've just had our Christmas Luncheon...suitably gorged at the moment. I'll be curled up under my desk over here.



Comment by Mondobubba on 12/20/2011 18:01:08
Quote by wickedpam:
isn't raw milk kinda gross?


Two words: Bovine TB.

Comment by BobR on 12/20/2011 18:10:52
Quote by TriSec:
Quote by wickedpam:
isn't raw milk kinda gross?


I suppose it's OK if you're a bovine foundling. I find the entire concept of milk to be kinda gross. (which doesn't stop me from using it in my coffee, and even drinking it on ocassion.)

However, the raw milk folks always seem to be shouting about the so-called health benefits. Wouldn't it be better to drink the milk of your own species, which is intended for the same thing? I don't see much call for a human milk industry, but I digress.


Yeah - I am always a bit intrigued that drinking the milk of another species is considered fine, but if an adult accidentally drinks a woman's breast milk, it's considered a major gross-out.

Things that make you go "hmmm"

Comment by Raine on 12/20/2011 19:00:46
Quote by wickedpam:

just seems if it were the "raw" type of milk it was be warm and kind of thick but I've only seen in on TV.
We used to get our milk straight form a local Farmer when I was a kid. (this is going way back to around 1980) It was not thicker than regular milk-- it didn't seem to taste any different to me. We refrigerated it just like any milk. The thing was -- it separated into the cream and the skim, so we would have to shake it up before pouring it.





Comment by wickedpam on 12/20/2011 19:07:04
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:

just seems if it were the "raw" type of milk it was be warm and kind of thick but I've only seen in on TV.
We used to get our milk straight form a local Farmer when I was a kid. (this is going way back to around 1980) It was not thicker than regular milk-- it didn't seem to taste any different to me. We refrigerated it just like any milk. The thing was -- it separated into the cream and the skim, so we would have to shake it up before pouring it.






good to know

Comment by TriSec on 12/20/2011 20:08:25
Updating....Father in law is getting discharged tomorrow. He's going to Meadow Green in Waltham, which is less than a half-mile through the woods from the house.

Alas, it is the beginning of endgame, though. There will be only one more stop after this, but when that is is anyone's guess.



Comment by Mondobubba on 12/20/2011 20:15:46
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam:

just seems if it were the "raw" type of milk it was be warm and kind of thick but I've only seen in on TV.
We used to get our milk straight form a local Farmer when I was a kid. (this is going way back to around 1980) It was not thicker than regular milk-- it didn't seem to taste any different to me. We refrigerated it just like any milk. The thing was -- it separated into the cream and the skim, so we would have to shake it up before pouring it.





That is still pasturized milk. Whole milk that isn't homogenized. Raw milk hasn't been pasturized and awash with some very nasty and ghastly bacteria like the aforementioned bovine TB.

Comment by TriSec on 12/20/2011 20:18:25
*non sequitir*

With Pops moving out, my mother-in-law has started a half-hearted effort to clean out some things in the house. We've just inherited a bunch of film camera equipment of various vintage. I'm tempted to resurrect a camera and shoot some film over the holidays.

A brief search of the internets reveals several companies that still process film by mail, so I am heartened that the medium hasn't become fully extinct yet.



Comment by Will in Chicago on 12/20/2011 20:41:42
Hello, bloggers!!

TriSec, thanks for an interesting blog. I think that we will debate the Iraq war for many years to come. As I reflect on the figures, I am reminded of Paul Wolfowitz's claims that Iraq oil revenues would pay for the war.

In some good news, my grand niece Emily Rose is doing better. She is now off the respirator and getting a little help from an oxygen tube for perhaps the next few days. With any luck, that will be removed soon and the doctors will see if she can now eat baby food.

Comment by Raine on 12/20/2011 20:56:32
Randi is kinda grumpy today -- and I can kinda say I don't sorta blame her.

It's hard to explain, but I'd recommend a listen.

Comment by Raine on 12/20/2011 20:57:13
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Hello, bloggers!!

TriSec, thanks for an interesting blog. I think that we will debate the Iraq war for many years to come. As I reflect on the figures, I am reminded of Paul Wolfowitz's claims that Iraq oil revenues would pay for the war.

In some good news, my grand niece Emily Rose is doing better. She is now off the respirator and getting a little help from an oxygen tube for perhaps the next few days. With any luck, that will be removed soon and the doctors will see if she can now eat baby food.


Will -- that is just wonderful news about your niece. SO wonderful!


Comment by velveeta jones on 12/20/2011 22:12:12
Quote by TriSec:
*non sequitir*

With Pops moving out, my mother-in-law has started a half-hearted effort to clean out some things in the house. We've just inherited a bunch of film camera equipment of various vintage. I'm tempted to resurrect a camera and shoot some film over the holidays.

A brief search of the internets reveals several companies that still process film by mail, so I am heartened that the medium hasn't become fully extinct yet.


I am SOOOOO jealous. Seattle has a good developer. I'll have to look up the name.

Comment by velveeta jones on 12/20/2011 22:13:06
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Hello, bloggers!!

TriSec, thanks for an interesting blog. I think that we will debate the Iraq war for many years to come. As I reflect on the figures, I am reminded of Paul Wolfowitz's claims that Iraq oil revenues would pay for the war.

In some good news, my grand niece Emily Rose is doing better. She is now off the respirator and getting a little help from an oxygen tube for perhaps the next few days. With any luck, that will be removed soon and the doctors will see if she can now eat baby food.


Great news Will. I'll continue to keep you and her in my prayers.


Comment by Raine on 12/21/2011 00:02:13
I know... I missed sundown...

But blessed Hannukah!

Comment by BobR on 12/21/2011 00:49:08
Quote by TriSec:
*non sequitir*

With Pops moving out, my mother-in-law has started a half-hearted effort to clean out some things in the house. We've just inherited a bunch of film camera equipment of various vintage. I'm tempted to resurrect a camera and shoot some film over the holidays.

A brief search of the internets reveals several companies that still process film by mail, so I am heartened that the medium hasn't become fully extinct yet.


Most camera shops still develop film, as does CVS. If you're talking 8mm movie, though, that's a whole 'nuther ballgame.