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Time for a Diet
Author: BobR
Date: 11/28/2012 13:52:03
It's that time of year... We are reminded during every commercial break with Santa and red ribbons. We are reminded when we flip through the radio dial and find stations that have gone to an all-Christmas Music format already (won't get sick of that in a couple weeks - no...). We are reminded every year on Black Friday, as once again we see video of people getting violent in an effort to save a few bucks.
We are a nation of consumers. Consumption is what drives our economy. Without spending, our economy dies (as it almost did in 2008/2009). We need the money to be moving because that is what creates jobs, and for the money to move, a product or service must be in turn exchanged.
Consuming, though, in the economic model is a lot like consuming in the digestive model: As we consume, we also excrete. Without consuming, we cannot survive.
The problem is that not unlike the general obesity problem we face in America, we have become a nation of fatties as it relates to consumer products. We want more, More, MORE. Last year's model is not good enough - trash it, and buy new. Human waste can be processed fairly easily. Consumer waste, however, is another beast altogether. If you have not seen the video "The Story of Stuff", you must watch it now:
Where this really becomes a problem is when people want to live beyond their means. They want it all, but they can't really afford it. Most of our consumer products used to be made in the U.S. It provided a decent job for a worker, who could live a simple comfortable life. Products were made to last, and - because of the cost - they were repaired when they broke. This also provided a job for a skilled worker to make repairs.
Over time, that model has disappeared. Now we want to replace it. If it breaks, it's an excuse to "upgrade".
How do we afford this? We've outsourced. A large number of our consumer products are now made overseas. It's actually cheaper to get it made on the other side of the planet and ship it than it is to make it here. At what cost? We saw recently with the fire at the factory in Bangladesh that killed more than 100 people. The description of the cause and carnage are eerily reminscent of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire in 1911. That fire (as well as the book "The Jungle" and blood, sweat and tears from unions) led to stricter laws and safer working conditions. Now that 3 people have been arrested because of the fire in Bangladesh, perhaps that side of the world will see changes in factory rules. Perhaps that will create a situation where it is once again cost-effective to manufacture certain products here in the U.S.
Wal-Mart is one of those companies that is well-known for selling foreign-made goods ("Wal-Mart - your source for cheap plastic crap made in China"). It's been reported that nearly 70% of their products are made overseas. A large portion of the garments manufactured in that inferno in Bangladesh were destined for Wal-Mart stores in the U.S. Wal-Mart is not the only culprit as a check of the tags on any clothing you might buy elsewhere will attest, but they are one of the worst offenders. They offer the American dream to everyone: you CAN have it all at a price you can afford. Just don't look behind the curtain to see the nearly enslaved factory workers that look the same age as your teenage kids.
What makes this even worse is that Wal-Mart also treats its employees (at least the hourly store workers) with little more respect than it does its suppliers. While the people at the top are making billions, the average store worker is on food stamps. They may have the lowest prices, but as Americans, we are all subsidizing them via our taxes.
The other end of this consumer digestive system is the waste product. We are consuming natural resources, and pooping out garbage and greenhouse gasses. Sea levels are rising faster than expected. Species are threatened with extinction. We've finally figured out recycling cans, bottles, and paper, but what about electronics? They are complex products, comprised of rare earth metals, lead, and plastic. It's technically feasible to recycle parts of them, but certainly not cost-effective.
It's an unsustainable model. Something has to change. This season, we all need to make an effort to cut down on our consumption of products, especially those made overseas, and especially those that are replacing something that works just fine. That may be a hard pill for kids to swallow, but as adults do we really need Christmas presents? Isn't spending time with friends and family and enjoying some good food and drink enough?
We are all warned about resisting the temptation to overeat during the holidays. This should apply to us as consumers too. Time for a diet - your planet will thank you.
We are a nation of consumers. Consumption is what drives our economy. Without spending, our economy dies (as it almost did in 2008/2009). We need the money to be moving because that is what creates jobs, and for the money to move, a product or service must be in turn exchanged.
Consuming, though, in the economic model is a lot like consuming in the digestive model: As we consume, we also excrete. Without consuming, we cannot survive.
The problem is that not unlike the general obesity problem we face in America, we have become a nation of fatties as it relates to consumer products. We want more, More, MORE. Last year's model is not good enough - trash it, and buy new. Human waste can be processed fairly easily. Consumer waste, however, is another beast altogether. If you have not seen the video "The Story of Stuff", you must watch it now:
Where this really becomes a problem is when people want to live beyond their means. They want it all, but they can't really afford it. Most of our consumer products used to be made in the U.S. It provided a decent job for a worker, who could live a simple comfortable life. Products were made to last, and - because of the cost - they were repaired when they broke. This also provided a job for a skilled worker to make repairs.
Over time, that model has disappeared. Now we want to replace it. If it breaks, it's an excuse to "upgrade".
How do we afford this? We've outsourced. A large number of our consumer products are now made overseas. It's actually cheaper to get it made on the other side of the planet and ship it than it is to make it here. At what cost? We saw recently with the fire at the factory in Bangladesh that killed more than 100 people. The description of the cause and carnage are eerily reminscent of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire in 1911. That fire (as well as the book "The Jungle" and blood, sweat and tears from unions) led to stricter laws and safer working conditions. Now that 3 people have been arrested because of the fire in Bangladesh, perhaps that side of the world will see changes in factory rules. Perhaps that will create a situation where it is once again cost-effective to manufacture certain products here in the U.S.
Wal-Mart is one of those companies that is well-known for selling foreign-made goods ("Wal-Mart - your source for cheap plastic crap made in China"). It's been reported that nearly 70% of their products are made overseas. A large portion of the garments manufactured in that inferno in Bangladesh were destined for Wal-Mart stores in the U.S. Wal-Mart is not the only culprit as a check of the tags on any clothing you might buy elsewhere will attest, but they are one of the worst offenders. They offer the American dream to everyone: you CAN have it all at a price you can afford. Just don't look behind the curtain to see the nearly enslaved factory workers that look the same age as your teenage kids.
What makes this even worse is that Wal-Mart also treats its employees (at least the hourly store workers) with little more respect than it does its suppliers. While the people at the top are making billions, the average store worker is on food stamps. They may have the lowest prices, but as Americans, we are all subsidizing them via our taxes.
The other end of this consumer digestive system is the waste product. We are consuming natural resources, and pooping out garbage and greenhouse gasses. Sea levels are rising faster than expected. Species are threatened with extinction. We've finally figured out recycling cans, bottles, and paper, but what about electronics? They are complex products, comprised of rare earth metals, lead, and plastic. It's technically feasible to recycle parts of them, but certainly not cost-effective.
It's an unsustainable model. Something has to change. This season, we all need to make an effort to cut down on our consumption of products, especially those made overseas, and especially those that are replacing something that works just fine. That may be a hard pill for kids to swallow, but as adults do we really need Christmas presents? Isn't spending time with friends and family and enjoying some good food and drink enough?
We are all warned about resisting the temptation to overeat during the holidays. This should apply to us as consumers too. Time for a diet - your planet will thank you.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
Raine on 11/28/2012 14:08:08
Excellent message, Bobr.
This paragraph tho:
reminded me of this article: The Endangered Repairman
it is an amazing read.
Raine on 11/28/2012 14:08:08
Excellent message, Bobr. This paragraph tho:
Where this really becomes a problem is when people want to live beyond their means. They want it all, but they can't really afford it. Most of our consumer products used to be made in the U.S. It provided a decent job for a worker, who could live a simple comfortable life. Products were made to last, and - because of the cost - they were repaired when they broke. This also provided a job for a skilled worker to make repairs.
reminded me of this article: The Endangered Repairman
it is an amazing read.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 14:12:05
Good morning!
I saw this over on the BoFaces this morning:
This should be interesting. Mala, did Bill press mention anything about this this morning?
Raine on 11/28/2012 14:12:05
Good morning! I saw this over on the BoFaces this morning:
Bill Press and I have heard you loud and clear about our support for the Salvation Army fundraising campaign. Please tune in for the third hour of Talking Liberally/The Stephanie Miller Show for our joint response." Love, Stephanie
This should be interesting. Mala, did Bill press mention anything about this this morning?
Comment by 
wickedpam on 11/28/2012 14:14:30
wickedpam on 11/28/2012 14:14:30
Morning 
Comment by wickedpam on 11/28/2012 14:15:19
Yep, they aren't going to be working with the SA any longer.
wickedpam on 11/28/2012 14:15:19
Quote by Raine:
I saw this over on the BoFaces this morning:Bill Press and I have heard you loud and clear about our support for the Salvation Army fundraising campaign. Please tune in for the third hour of Talking Liberally/The Stephanie Miller Show for our joint response." Love, Stephanie
This should be interesting. Mala, did Bill press mention anything about this this morning?
Yep, they aren't going to be working with the SA any longer.
Comment by 
TriSec on 11/28/2012 14:15:54
TriSec on 11/28/2012 14:15:54
Good Morning.
Food and drink can be hazardous, too. 70 years ago this evening, the Cocoanut Grove Nightclub burned in this city.
As you're well aware, my grandpa narrowly missed being there by about two weeks. He did know all the musicians there, and except for Tubba (the bass player), they did all die.
Food and drink can be hazardous, too. 70 years ago this evening, the Cocoanut Grove Nightclub burned in this city.
As you're well aware, my grandpa narrowly missed being there by about two weeks. He did know all the musicians there, and except for Tubba (the bass player), they did all die.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 14:21:04
I'm glad to hear this. I would like very much for the Salvation Army to change this stance. I saw that they may be trying to change things. this used to be on the page:
Now from TP:
Raine on 11/28/2012 14:21:04
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
I saw this over on the BoFaces this morning:Bill Press and I have heard you loud and clear about our support for the Salvation Army fundraising campaign. Please tune in for the third hour of Talking Liberally/The Stephanie Miller Show for our joint response." Love, Stephanie
This should be interesting. Mala, did Bill press mention anything about this this morning?
Yep, they aren't going to be working with the SA any longer.
Now from TP:
(Incidentally, this position statement is currently unavailable on the Army’s website, as it is supposedly “Under review.†The screencap above is what was previously found at the site.)
Comment by 
BobR on 11/28/2012 14:26:39
Excellent article. I used to do those repairs too, and I know Trojan Rabbit will see himself there as well.
BobR on 11/28/2012 14:26:39
Quote by Raine:
This paragraph tho:Where this really becomes a problem is when people want to live beyond their means. They want it all, but they can't really afford it. Most of our consumer products used to be made in the U.S. It provided a decent job for a worker, who could live a simple comfortable life. Products were made to last, and - because of the cost - they were repaired when they broke. This also provided a job for a skilled worker to make repairs.
reminded me of this article: The Endangered Repairman
it is an amazing read.
Excellent article. I used to do those repairs too, and I know Trojan Rabbit will see himself there as well.
Comment by wickedpam on 11/28/2012 14:35:30
wickedpam on 11/28/2012 14:35:30
BTW - "The Jungle" is the reason why I no longer eat sausage
Comment by 
Scoopster on 11/28/2012 14:51:20
Scoopster on 11/28/2012 14:51:20
Mornin' all.. 
Happy 50th birthday to Jon Stewart!!
Happy 50th birthday to Jon Stewart!!
Comment by TriSec on 11/28/2012 15:00:08
TriSec on 11/28/2012 15:00:08
This company is still in business in my hometown.
And regarding the Salvation Army...don't forget, they are a religious organization (the service arm of the Methodists). If they want to cling to their biblical beliefs, well good for them. But that doesn't mean we have to do business with them if we disagree.
And regarding the Salvation Army...don't forget, they are a religious organization (the service arm of the Methodists). If they want to cling to their biblical beliefs, well good for them. But that doesn't mean we have to do business with them if we disagree.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 15:26:52
Raine on 11/28/2012 15:26:52
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 15:39:23
Raine on 11/28/2012 15:39:23
Obama has a lot more class than I do.
President Obama and the man he defeated in the 2012 presidential contest -- Republican Mitt Romney -- will have lunch tomorrow at the White House, Obama's press secretary just announced.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 15:46:37
I will say this, I'd LOVE
For The first lady to take Ann Romney on a tour. 
Raine on 11/28/2012 15:46:37
Quote by Raine:
Obama has a lot more class than I do.President Obama and the man he defeated in the 2012 presidential contest -- Republican Mitt Romney -- will have lunch tomorrow at the White House, Obama's press secretary just announced.
I will say this, I'd LOVE
For The first lady to take Ann Romney on a tour.
Comment by TriSec on 11/28/2012 15:48:28
TriSec on 11/28/2012 15:48:28
President TriSec said today of his opponent, "Hey, I just kicked his ass. I don't have to give him the freakin' time of day."
The White House Press Secretary was quick to backtrack, saying the President's remarks were clearly taken out of context.
The White House Press Secretary was quick to backtrack, saying the President's remarks were clearly taken out of context.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 15:52:46
From the hill:
I think Obama just invited Romney to be his cat toy. The GOP has all but disowned Romney...
This is a little salt in the wound -- Oba(ng)ma(n) style.
Raine on 11/28/2012 15:52:46
Quote by TriSec:
President TriSec said today of his opponent, "Hey, I just kicked his ass. I don't have to give him the freakin' time of day."
The White House Press Secretary was quick to backtrack, saying the President's remarks were clearly taken out of context.
From the hill:
Following his overwhelming election victory, Obama said he wanted to meet with Romney to discuss how he could work with the GOP nominee and Republican Party leaders on the economic challenges facing the country.
I think Obama just invited Romney to be his cat toy. The GOP has all but disowned Romney...
This is a little salt in the wound -- Oba(ng)ma(n) style.
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 11/28/2012 15:53:38
Saw my Dad open the back of the TV to pull tubes and stuff many times. I'm the only son that talent rubbed off on. Though I can't do anything with a hammer to save my life unlike my other brothers.
Typical consumer grade entertainment stuff became throw-away long ago. Not too much you can do when the important parts have more than 100 pins on them. But most manufacturers won't even support board level repairs, as that article pointed out. Just buy our NEW Chinese assembled crap.
I think if I delivered my '48 Philco to the place Tri posted, their jaws would probably drop.
trojanrabbit on 11/28/2012 15:53:38
Quote by BobR:Quote by Raine:
This paragraph tho:Where this really becomes a problem is when people want to live beyond their means. They want it all, but they can't really afford it. Most of our consumer products used to be made in the U.S. It provided a decent job for a worker, who could live a simple comfortable life. Products were made to last, and - because of the cost - they were repaired when they broke. This also provided a job for a skilled worker to make repairs.
reminded me of this article: The Endangered Repairman
it is an amazing read.
Excellent article. I used to do those repairs too, and I know Trojan Rabbit will see himself there as well.
Saw my Dad open the back of the TV to pull tubes and stuff many times. I'm the only son that talent rubbed off on. Though I can't do anything with a hammer to save my life unlike my other brothers.
Typical consumer grade entertainment stuff became throw-away long ago. Not too much you can do when the important parts have more than 100 pins on them. But most manufacturers won't even support board level repairs, as that article pointed out. Just buy our NEW Chinese assembled crap.
I think if I delivered my '48 Philco to the place Tri posted, their jaws would probably drop.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 15:59:16
Raine on 11/28/2012 15:59:16
I like this, A LOT!
I think Perriello would do far better than McAuliffe in the run for Gov here in Virginia.
Tom Perriello is reportedly considering a bid for Virginia's governor's seat in 2013, according to sources close to the former Democratic congressman.
The news was first tweeted on Tuesday night by Ben Tribbett, a prominent Virginia Democratic blogger, who said Perriello "hasn't totally ruled out a run for Governor in 2013."
Sources close to Perriello confirmed to The Huffington Post that he is considering a gubernatorial bid.
I think Perriello would do far better than McAuliffe in the run for Gov here in Virginia.
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 16:00:23
Nope, the Salvos are not the service arm of the Methodists. They are denomination unto their own. Salvation Army
Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 16:00:23
Quote by TriSec:
And regarding the Salvation Army...don't forget, they are a religious organization (the service arm of the Methodists). If they want to cling to their biblical beliefs, well good for them. But that doesn't mean we have to do business with them if we disagree.
Nope, the Salvos are not the service arm of the Methodists. They are denomination unto their own. Salvation Army
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 16:00:49
I knew that you and BobR would appreciate this article.
Raine on 11/28/2012 16:00:49
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Saw my Dad open the back of the TV to pull tubes and stuff many times. I'm the only son that talent rubbed off on. Though I can't do anything with a hammer to save my life unlike my other brothers.
Typical consumer grade entertainment stuff became throw-away long ago. Not too much you can do when the important parts have more than 100 pins on them. But most manufacturers won't even support board level repairs, as that article pointed out. Just buy our NEW Chinese assembled crap.
I think if I delivered my '48 Philco to the place Tri posted, their jaws would probably drop.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 16:11:06
Interesting. I clicked on catherine booths Wiki:
That said, From the Salvation Army Wiki:
I think they have the roots in Methodism.
It might not be a service arm, but the roots are Methodist. I am the sole Koch girl baptized as Lutheran, My sisters: Methodist. I was a sacrificial lamb to appease my fathers side of the family. My mom's parents, Oma and Opa were Methodists.
And today, not one of us go to church.
Raine on 11/28/2012 16:11:06
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by TriSec:
And regarding the Salvation Army...don't forget, they are a religious organization (the service arm of the Methodists). If they want to cling to their biblical beliefs, well good for them. But that doesn't mean we have to do business with them if we disagree.
Nope, the Salvos are not the service arm of the Methodists. They are denomination unto their own. Salvation Army
She met William Booth, a Methodist minister, when he came to preach at her church in 1852. They soon fell in love and became engaged. During their three year engagement, Catherine constantly wrote letters of encouragement to William as he performed the tiring work of a preacher.
That said, From the Salvation Army Wiki:
The Salvation Army was founded in London's East End in 1865 by one-time Methodist minister William Booth and his wife Catherine. Originally, Booth named the organization the East London Christian Mission. The name The Salvation Army developed from an incident on 19–20 May. William Booth was dictating a letter to his secretary George Scott Railton and said, "We are a volunteer army." Bramwell Booth heard his father and said, "Volunteer! I'm no volunteer, I'm a regular!" Railton was instructed to cross out the word "volunteer" and substitute the word "salvation". The Salvation Army was modeled after the military, with its own flag (or colours) and its own hymns, often with words set to popular and folkloric tunes sung in the pubs. Booth and the other soldiers in "God's Army" would wear the Army's own uniform, for meetings and ministry work. He became the "General" and his other ministers were given appropriate ranks as "officers". Other members became "soldiers".
I think they have the roots in Methodism.
It might not be a service arm, but the roots are Methodist. I am the sole Koch girl baptized as Lutheran, My sisters: Methodist. I was a sacrificial lamb to appease my fathers side of the family. My mom's parents, Oma and Opa were Methodists.
And today, not one of us go to church.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 11/28/2012 16:13:17
Though Dad was a carpenter by trade, when he entered the Army just before the end of WWII he took their communications training.
If you went to his home while I was growing up you would see his workbench on one side of the cellar with the saws and grinding wheels and on the other side you'd see the workbench he built for me with the tube tester and voltmeters and some disassembled TVs and radios, and coffee cans full of tubes I cannibalized from all the relatives TV's when they bought new ones.
trojanrabbit on 11/28/2012 16:13:17
Quote by Raine:I knew that you and BobR would appreciate this article.Quote by trojanrabbit:
Saw my Dad open the back of the TV to pull tubes and stuff many times. I'm the only son that talent rubbed off on. Though I can't do anything with a hammer to save my life unlike my other brothers.
Typical consumer grade entertainment stuff became throw-away long ago. Not too much you can do when the important parts have more than 100 pins on them. But most manufacturers won't even support board level repairs, as that article pointed out. Just buy our NEW Chinese assembled crap.
I think if I delivered my '48 Philco to the place Tri posted, their jaws would probably drop.
Though Dad was a carpenter by trade, when he entered the Army just before the end of WWII he took their communications training.
If you went to his home while I was growing up you would see his workbench on one side of the cellar with the saws and grinding wheels and on the other side you'd see the workbench he built for me with the tube tester and voltmeters and some disassembled TVs and radios, and coffee cans full of tubes I cannibalized from all the relatives TV's when they bought new ones.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 16:18:17
That's an amazing story, Rabbit. Your dad knew you.
Raine on 11/28/2012 16:18:17
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Though Dad was a carpenter by trade, when he entered the Army just before the end of WWII he took their communications training.
If you went to his home while I was growing up you would see his workbench on one side of the cellar with the saws and grinding wheels and on the other side you'd see the workbench he built for me with the tube tester and voltmeters and some disassembled TVs and radios, and coffee cans full of tubes I cannibalized from all the relatives TV's when they bought new ones.
Comment by Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 16:25:17
Methodism has much to answer for, The Salvation Army, The Church of the Nazarene, the Pentecostal Movement, snake handling and other things.
Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 16:25:17
Quote by Raine:Interesting. I clicked on catherine booths Wiki:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by TriSec:
And regarding the Salvation Army...don't forget, they are a religious organization (the service arm of the Methodists). If they want to cling to their biblical beliefs, well good for them. But that doesn't mean we have to do business with them if we disagree.
Nope, the Salvos are not the service arm of the Methodists. They are denomination unto their own. Salvation ArmyShe met William Booth, a Methodist minister, when he came to preach at her church in 1852. They soon fell in love and became engaged. During their three year engagement, Catherine constantly wrote letters of encouragement to William as he performed the tiring work of a preacher.
That said, From the Salvation Army Wiki:The Salvation Army was founded in London's East End in 1865 by one-time Methodist minister William Booth and his wife Catherine. Originally, Booth named the organization the East London Christian Mission. The name The Salvation Army developed from an incident on 19–20 May. William Booth was dictating a letter to his secretary George Scott Railton and said, "We are a volunteer army." Bramwell Booth heard his father and said, "Volunteer! I'm no volunteer, I'm a regular!" Railton was instructed to cross out the word "volunteer" and substitute the word "salvation". The Salvation Army was modeled after the military, with its own flag (or colours) and its own hymns, often with words set to popular and folkloric tunes sung in the pubs. Booth and the other soldiers in "God's Army" would wear the Army's own uniform, for meetings and ministry work. He became the "General" and his other ministers were given appropriate ranks as "officers". Other members became "soldiers".
I think they have the roots in Methodism.
It might not be a service arm, but the roots are Methodist. I am the sole Koch girl baptized as Lutheran, My sisters: Methodist. I was a sacrificial lamb to appease my fathers side of the family. My mom's parents, Oma and Opa were Methodists.
And today, not one of us go to church.
Methodism has much to answer for, The Salvation Army, The Church of the Nazarene, the Pentecostal Movement, snake handling and other things.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 16:31:31
Oma and Opa were terrible methodists.
Well, Mostly Opa. He drank, he danced... He even killed snakes -- one time with a gun. Dad took that gun away...
Omais was a victorian -- then we grandchildren came along.
Raine on 11/28/2012 16:31:31
Quote by Mondobubba:
Methodism has much to answer for, The Salvation Army, The Church of the Nazarene, the Pentecostal Movement, snake handling and other things.
Well, Mostly Opa. He drank, he danced... He even killed snakes -- one time with a gun. Dad took that gun away...
Oma
Comment by wickedpam on 11/28/2012 16:34:48
wickedpam on 11/28/2012 16:34:48
You guys are talking about a very different Methodist church then I've ever been too.
Comment by TriSec on 11/28/2012 16:35:26
TriSec on 11/28/2012 16:35:26
My big, expensive, Xmas present just shipped!
I used E-layaway this year, and I must say the process was entirely painless and efficient, and best of all, no credit card charges!
I used E-layaway this year, and I must say the process was entirely painless and efficient, and best of all, no credit card charges!
Comment by Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 16:38:14
I'm not saying this are Methodist churches. I am saying that they all have their roots in the Methodist church.
Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 16:38:14
Quote by Raine:Oma and Opa were terrible methodists.Quote by Mondobubba:
Methodism has much to answer for, The Salvation Army, The Church of the Nazarene, the Pentecostal Movement, snake handling and other things.
Well, Mostly Opa. He drank, he danced... He even killed snakes -- one time with a gun. Dad took that gun away...
Omaiswas a victorian -- then we grandchildren came along.
I'm not saying this are Methodist churches. I am saying that they all have their roots in the Methodist church.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 16:42:44
The Methodist Church I remember was pretty much stiff.
Raine on 11/28/2012 16:42:44
Quote by wickedpam:
You guys are talking about a very different Methodist church then I've ever been too.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 16:43:43
Admit it, it's my blogger Joe gift.
Raine on 11/28/2012 16:43:43
Quote by TriSec:
My big, expensive, Xmas present just shipped!
I used E-layaway this year, and I must say the process was entirely painless and efficient, and best of all, no credit card charges!
Comment by wickedpam on 11/28/2012 16:44:59
mine have been mostly just white bread do no harm pitch in where you can types
wickedpam on 11/28/2012 16:44:59
Quote by Raine:The Methodist Church I remember was pretty much stiff.Quote by wickedpam:
You guys are talking about a very different Methodist church then I've ever been too.
mine have been mostly just white bread do no harm pitch in where you can types
Comment by wickedpam on 11/28/2012 16:45:31
wickedpam on 11/28/2012 16:45:31
That's what I forgot! Blogger Joe Post!!!! 
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 16:54:17
Raine on 11/28/2012 16:54:17
And people take Beck seriously in this world.
Beck says it's not urine, but rather beer.
Proof that Bud is no different from pisswater.
Beck says it's not urine, but rather beer.
Proof that Bud is no different from pisswater.
Comment by TriSec on 11/28/2012 16:57:32
See now, I was a Methodist in my younger days, and my youth Scout Troop wast chartered by the Cliftondale United Methodist Church.
When I was a scout, the beloved Reverend Miller was known to come out to visit the troop on many ocassions in the field and run an open-air service for us, then run back to church for the rest of the folks. He was also a magician, too (no, really!) and would often do some sleight-of-hand during the sermons.
Good guy, alas no longer with us.
TriSec on 11/28/2012 16:57:32
Quote by Raine:
The Methodist Church I remember was pretty much stiff.
See now, I was a Methodist in my younger days, and my youth Scout Troop wast chartered by the Cliftondale United Methodist Church.
When I was a scout, the beloved Reverend Miller was known to come out to visit the troop on many ocassions in the field and run an open-air service for us, then run back to church for the rest of the folks. He was also a magician, too (no, really!) and would often do some sleight-of-hand during the sermons.
Good guy, alas no longer with us.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 17:02:02
I think, like many religions -- there are different levels of openness.
the Salvation Army seems to have taken a tact that I cannot abide with. They do have roots in the Methodist arm of protestant christianity.
Sometimes, religion seems like an all you can eat food bar. I think I'll just eat at home.
Raine on 11/28/2012 17:02:02
Quote by TriSec:Quote by Raine:
The Methodist Church I remember was pretty much stiff.
See now, I was a Methodist in my younger days, and my youth Scout Troop wast chartered by the Cliftondale United Methodist Church.
When I was a scout, the beloved Reverend Miller was known to come out to visit the troop on many ocassions in the field and run an open-air service for us, then run back to church for the rest of the folks. He was also a magician, too (no, really!) and would often do some sleight-of-hand during the sermons.
Good guy, alas no longer with us.
the Salvation Army seems to have taken a tact that I cannot abide with. They do have roots in the Methodist arm of protestant christianity.
Sometimes, religion seems like an all you can eat food bar. I think I'll just eat at home.
Comment by Scoopster on 11/28/2012 17:04:12
Scoopster on 11/28/2012 17:04:12
Quote by Raine:
And people take Beck seriously in this world.
Beck says it's not urine, but rather beer.
Proof that Bud is no different from pisswater.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 17:15:22
OMG!
Raine on 11/28/2012 17:15:22
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
And people take Beck seriously in this world.
Beck says it's not urine, but rather beer.
Proof that Bud is no different from pisswater.
OMG!
Comment by TriSec on 11/28/2012 17:28:22
TriSec on 11/28/2012 17:28:22
Comment by wickedpam on 11/28/2012 17:35:18
wickedpam on 11/28/2012 17:35:18
Comment by TriSec on 11/28/2012 18:00:58
TriSec on 11/28/2012 18:00:58
Having just passed our annual ritual of The Wizard....
In 1939, do you think the Munchkins intentionally goose-stepped just to mock Herr Hitler?
In 1939, do you think the Munchkins intentionally goose-stepped just to mock Herr Hitler?
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 19:17:59
Stand your ground!
Blech. I am so sick of this bullshite.
Raine on 11/28/2012 19:17:59
Quote by TriSec:
Mondo?
What the hell, dude?
Blech. I am so sick of this bullshite.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 19:48:33
Raine on 11/28/2012 19:48:33
Looks like Randi is out again today... 
Comment by TriSec on 11/28/2012 20:16:48
TriSec on 11/28/2012 20:16:48
3 treatments to go, and now Chemo has the upper hand.
This is supposed to make me better, not kill me, right?
<-- Blepharitis
<-- constant fatigue
<-- Groveling to Allah
<-- TMI digestive issues
<-- general grumpiness
<-- Still not sure this is going to work
<-- I just don't know anymore.
<-- I'm getting freakin' tired of this. I will get better, won't I?
Ok, I'm going to go sit in a corner and sulk now.
This is supposed to make me better, not kill me, right?
<-- Blepharitis <-- constant fatigue <-- Groveling to Allah <-- TMI digestive issues <-- general grumpiness <-- Still not sure this is going to work <-- I just don't know anymore. <-- I'm getting freakin' tired of this. I will get better, won't I?Ok, I'm going to go sit in a corner and sulk now.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 20:24:36
that was the most effective emoticon theatre I've seen.
May I add? 3 more treatments and soon you can
<-- return to this.
<-- enjoy this.
<-- Dance like it's 2099 
<-- do more of this.
<-- make music.
but until then, you are more than entitled to be grumpy. --->
Raine on 11/28/2012 20:24:36
Quote by TriSec:
3 treatments to go, and now Chemo has the upper hand.
This is supposed to make me better, not kill me, right?
Ok, I'm going to go sit in a corner and sulk now.
May I add? 3 more treatments and soon you can
<-- return to this. <-- enjoy this. <-- Dance like it's 2099 <-- do more of this. <-- make music. but until then, you are more than entitled to be grumpy. --->
Comment by Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 20:30:53
Well played Ms Raine.
Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 20:30:53
Quote by Raine:that was the most effective emoticon theatre I've seen.Quote by TriSec:
3 treatments to go, and now Chemo has the upper hand.
This is supposed to make me better, not kill me, right?
Ok, I'm going to go sit in a corner and sulk now.
May I add? 3 more treatments and soon you can
but until then, you are more than entitled to be grumpy. --->
Well played Ms Raine.
Comment by Raine on 11/28/2012 20:31:05
Well, I guess a guy has to earn a living.....
Raine on 11/28/2012 20:31:05
Former aides confirm that Romney is expected to move into an office at the Boston-area venture capital firm Solamere Capital. The firm was founded by his oldest son, Tagg Romney, and Spencer Zwick, who served as his presidential campaign's national finance chairman.
It's unclear what role, if any, Romney will play at the firm. Former aides said Romney was subletting office space from Solamere.
Comment by Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 20:33:01
You're just hearing about this now? If I wanted to I could go to the viewing at the funeral home down the way.
Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 20:33:01
Quote by TriSec:
Mondo?
What the hell, dude?
You're just hearing about this now? If I wanted to I could go to the viewing at the funeral home down the way.
Comment by Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 20:34:59
And now, the weather, in Elvish. I do love the Kiwis.
Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 20:34:59
And now, the weather, in Elvish. I do love the Kiwis.
Comment by Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 20:53:13
Mondobubba on 11/28/2012 20:53:13
Elvish weather killed the blog.