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Bitter Battle Book
Author: BobR
Date: 04/16/2008 12:39:41
Bitter side up!
Bitter side down!
(apologies to the late Dr. Seuss...)
On April 6th, Barack Obama said these words during a fundraiser in San Francisco:
It should seem obvious to anyone reading this in context that when he referred to guns or religion, he was referring to the voters' fear that government would interfere with them as a fake source-point for frustration. To me, it does not read as if Obama is saying people find refuge in guns or religion. Yet that seems to be how everyone that is criticizing him is interpreting it.
Perhaps it should be taken as a note of encouragement that if this is the worst they can come up with to smear him, then they've got nothing. Who is "they"? That would be anyone that doesn't want him to get the nomination (ie: Senators Clinton and McCain and their supporters) and the right-wing. The meme they are trying to push is that Obama is "elitist". It worked to make Kerry and Al Gore seem unlikeable, so why not try again? There's also the media trying to ride this into popcorn territory.
Obama has commented on all of the hoopla by saying anyone that doesn't see the bitterness is out of touch. He drove the point specifically at Senator Clinton, saying "Shame on her", and then pointing out her pandering to voters with her calculated stories of hunting as a child and comparing her to Annie Oakley.
One sort of expects the campaigns to engage in this sort of nit-picking and fake outrage. What's aggravating is when the media gets into the ring and tries to fan a spark into a flame. You KNOW that FAUX News is going to jump at every chance to smear a Democrat, and they did not miss a beat on this one. They discussed the issue with Karl Rove, who pushed the "elitist" meme into deeper territory:
What's aggravating though is when the mainstream media tries to provoke controversy (instead of - you know - reporting the news?). An AP reporter did just that:
It's gotten to the point now where the news is reporting on the reactions to the spin on the story.
Even Tim Russert wades into the muck:
As posted in the comments of yesterday's blog, at least Rachel Maddow is trying to point out the stupidity of it:
Perhaps we should take it as a good sign then that the race seems to be relatively unchanged because of this whole flap. Perhaps voters are finally getting frustrated (bitter?) that they are being told what to think about a candidate's comments, and are finally thinking for themselves. That makes me hopeful that people might actually be voting on issues that really matter, instead of distractions like off-hand comments... or guns... or religion...
Bitter side up?
Bitter side down?
Who cares ?!?!?!
Bitter side down!
(apologies to the late Dr. Seuss...)
On April 6th, Barack Obama said these words during a fundraiser in San Francisco:
...But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations...
It should seem obvious to anyone reading this in context that when he referred to guns or religion, he was referring to the voters' fear that government would interfere with them as a fake source-point for frustration. To me, it does not read as if Obama is saying people find refuge in guns or religion. Yet that seems to be how everyone that is criticizing him is interpreting it.
Perhaps it should be taken as a note of encouragement that if this is the worst they can come up with to smear him, then they've got nothing. Who is "they"? That would be anyone that doesn't want him to get the nomination (ie: Senators Clinton and McCain and their supporters) and the right-wing. The meme they are trying to push is that Obama is "elitist". It worked to make Kerry and Al Gore seem unlikeable, so why not try again? There's also the media trying to ride this into popcorn territory.
Obama has commented on all of the hoopla by saying anyone that doesn't see the bitterness is out of touch. He drove the point specifically at Senator Clinton, saying "Shame on her", and then pointing out her pandering to voters with her calculated stories of hunting as a child and comparing her to Annie Oakley.
One sort of expects the campaigns to engage in this sort of nit-picking and fake outrage. What's aggravating is when the media gets into the ring and tries to fan a spark into a flame. You KNOW that FAUX News is going to jump at every chance to smear a Democrat, and they did not miss a beat on this one. They discussed the issue with Karl Rove, who pushed the "elitist" meme into deeper territory:
ROVE: I don’t find a lot of people in rural America, I certainly don’t find the dominant view to be — “I’m so bitter that I’m going to hold on to my gun or I’m gonna” — You know, it was almost Marxian in this they cling to their religion. I mean, you know, it’s sort of like it’s the opiate of the masses.
What's aggravating though is when the mainstream media tries to provoke controversy (instead of - you know - reporting the news?). An AP reporter did just that:
At the April 14 Associated Press annual meeting luncheon, referring to comments Sen. Barack Obama made on April 6, AP political writer Ron Fournier repeatedly asked Sen. John McCain whether he thinks Obama is an "elitist." Fournier asked: "You made a vague reference in your speech to Senator Obama's comments recently about working-class voters. Do you think the senator is an elitist?" McCain replied in part: "Oh, I don't -- no -- I don't -- I think those comments are elitist." When Fournier followed up by asking, "If those remarks were elitist, which you say they are ... does that make him an elitist?" McCain responded, "I don't know, because I don't know him very well." Fournier then asked: "You served with him for a couple of years. Did you ever see elitist behavior from him?"
It's gotten to the point now where the news is reporting on the reactions to the spin on the story.
Even Tim Russert wades into the muck:Listen to this morning’s “Meet the Press” if you want an example. Tim Russert, one of the smartest guys on television, interviewed four political consultants - Carville and Matalin, Bob Schrum, and Michael Murphy. Political consultants are paid huge sums to help politicians spin words and avoid real talk. They’re part of the problem. And what do Russert and these four consultants talk about? The potential damage to Barack Obama from saying that lots of people in Pennsylvania are bitter that the economy has left them behind; about HRC’s spin on Obama’s words (he’s an “elitist,” she said); and John McCain’s similarly puerile attack.
Does Russert really believe he’s doing the nation a service for this parade of spin doctors talking about potential spins and the spin-offs from the words Obama used to state what everyone knows is true? Or is Russert merely in the business of selling TV airtime for a network that doesn’t give a hoot about its supposed commitment to the public interest but wants to up its ratings by pandering to the nation’s ongoing desire for gladiator entertainment instead of real talk about real problems.
As posted in the comments of yesterday's blog, at least Rachel Maddow is trying to point out the stupidity of it:
Perhaps we should take it as a good sign then that the race seems to be relatively unchanged because of this whole flap. Perhaps voters are finally getting frustrated (bitter?) that they are being told what to think about a candidate's comments, and are finally thinking for themselves. That makes me hopeful that people might actually be voting on issues that really matter, instead of distractions like off-hand comments... or guns... or religion...
Bitter side up?
Bitter side down?
Who cares ?!?!?!
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by right wing hater on 04/16/2008 12:58:16
I've changed my name over on Crooksandliars to 'Bitter for Obama (aka right wing hater)'. I changed it from 'Hussein Lover (aka right wing hater)'...
The reason is very simple, every time the infotainment Corporate Media decides to make a mountain out of a mole hill and dedicate more than 3 hours to an idiotic non-story....we have been changing our posting names over there to reflect how much we don't care...and we're still voting for him...no matter how hard they try to manufacture controversy
The reason is very simple, every time the infotainment Corporate Media decides to make a mountain out of a mole hill and dedicate more than 3 hours to an idiotic non-story....we have been changing our posting names over there to reflect how much we don't care...and we're still voting for him...no matter how hard they try to manufacture controversy
Comment by 
m-hadley on 04/16/2008 13:01:53
m-hadley on 04/16/2008 13:01:53
BobR,
Excellent post, although I am somewhat dismayed that fully ten days after uttering these honest words, they are still so much in the news.
I do however appreciate Karl Rove making the commentary as absurd as it should be by calling it "Marxian!"
What a joke Since when did an honest observation about the American psyche become "Marxian"? I've said it before and I'll say it again ,"Hell yeah I'm bitter, and if you aren't then you are not paying attention!"
Cheers,
mfaye :D
Excellent post, although I am somewhat dismayed that fully ten days after uttering these honest words, they are still so much in the news.
I do however appreciate Karl Rove making the commentary as absurd as it should be by calling it "Marxian!"What a joke
Since when did an honest observation about the American psyche become "Marxian"? I've said it before and I'll say it again ,"Hell yeah I'm bitter, and if you aren't then you are not paying attention!"Cheers,
mfaye :D
Comment by 
BobR on 04/16/2008 13:09:32
Those that post on the SMS live blog take note!
BobR on 04/16/2008 13:09:32
Quote by right wing hater:
I've changed my name over on Crooksandliars to 'Bitter for Obama (aka right wing hater)'. I changed it from 'Hussein Lover (aka right wing hater)'...
The reason is very simple, every time the infotainment Corporate Media decides to make a mountain out of a mole hill and dedicate more than 3 hours to an idiotic non-story....we have been changing our posting names over there to reflect how much we don't care...and we're still voting for him...no matter how hard they try to manufacture controversy
Those that post on the SMS live blog take note!
Comment by BobR on 04/16/2008 13:10:58
Thanks.
Re: Rove, he also repeated the meme that people "cling to their religion", which is a complete (and likely deliberate) misinterpretation of what Obama said.
EDIT: So are you saying my commentary on the media's commentary on the spin on the remark (thus keeping the story going) is full-circle irony? :rofl:
BobR on 04/16/2008 13:10:58
Quote by m-hadley:
BobR,
Excellent post, although I am somewhat dismayed that fully ten days after uttering these honest words, they are still so much in the news.
What a joke
Cheers,
mfaye :D
Thanks.
Re: Rove, he also repeated the meme that people "cling to their religion", which is a complete (and likely deliberate) misinterpretation of what Obama said.
EDIT: So are you saying my commentary on the media's commentary on the spin on the remark (thus keeping the story going) is full-circle irony? :rofl:
Comment by m-hadley on 04/16/2008 13:15:12
Why yes, yes I am BobR :D
Cheers,
mfaye
m-hadley on 04/16/2008 13:15:12
Quote by BobR:Quote by m-hadley:
BobR,
Excellent post, although I am somewhat dismayed that fully ten days after uttering these honest words, they are still so much in the news.
What a joke
Cheers,
mfaye :D
Thanks.
Re: Rove, he also repeated the meme that people "cling to their religion", which is a complete (and likely deliberate) misinterpretation of what Obama said.
EDIT: So are you saying my commentary on the media's commentary on the spin on the remark (thus keeping the story going) is full-circle irony? :rofl:
Why yes, yes I am BobR :D
Cheers,
mfaye
Comment by 
TriSec on 04/16/2008 13:15:16
TriSec on 04/16/2008 13:15:16
Well, if Rove is an expert on anything, it would be Marxism...
Comment by 
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:34:18
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:34:18
FAYE!!! 
Comment by 
livingonli on 04/16/2008 13:39:31
livingonli on 04/16/2008 13:39:31
Good morning everyone. 
I was getting myself up and missed faye's call.
I was getting myself up and missed faye's call.
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:39:38
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:39:38
What is wrong with being "The Elite?" Part of being elite is having Superior Intellect. In the words of, I believe it was Raine, "I kind of want my President to be smarter than me."
:star:'s moment from last night; Nora O'Donnell saying it's a light newsweek. Really Nora? Are our Soldiers and Marines still getting blown up in Iraq? That's news. Are homes still being foreclosed? That's still news. Recession development? Still news. What's going on in China? Africa? Tibet? Italy? I'd like to hear about that. Any new Environmental Acts being signed into law? I'd like to hear about that. Wow...I could have filled an hour with those stories, Nora.
There's no such thing as a slow news week, these days. Don't sell me that B*llshit.
:grumble:
:star:'s moment from last night; Nora O'Donnell saying it's a light newsweek. Really Nora? Are our Soldiers and Marines still getting blown up in Iraq? That's news. Are homes still being foreclosed? That's still news. Recession development? Still news. What's going on in China? Africa? Tibet? Italy? I'd like to hear about that. Any new Environmental Acts being signed into law? I'd like to hear about that. Wow...I could have filled an hour with those stories, Nora.
There's no such thing as a slow news week, these days. Don't sell me that B*llshit.
:grumble:
Comment by 
wickedpam on 04/16/2008 13:41:04
I feel that way about cake sometimes myself.
Morning :hug:
wickedpam on 04/16/2008 13:41:04
Quote by BobR:
Your cute kitty link-of-the-day...
I feel that way about cake sometimes myself.
Morning :hug:
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:41:10
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:41:10
Mmm....Kashi, Plain Yogurt with Raw Honey and Raspberries.
:drool:
:drool:
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:42:06
:rofl:
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:42:06
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by BobR:
Your cute kitty link-of-the-day...
I feel that way about cake sometimes myself.
:rofl:
Comment by 
velveeta jones on 04/16/2008 13:43:39
velveeta jones on 04/16/2008 13:43:39
Morning everyone.
Day 5 of my walking death crud. I'll mostly be in bed. Also, I will be figuring out if I can now afford the DC trip. Between me being sick, and my wife sick a few weeks ago, and my vet bills................. all unexpected............ things look bleak, trip wise.
:(
Day 5 of my walking death crud. I'll mostly be in bed. Also, I will be figuring out if I can now afford the DC trip. Between me being sick, and my wife sick a few weeks ago, and my vet bills................. all unexpected............ things look bleak, trip wise.
:(
Comment by wickedpam on 04/16/2008 13:44:10
that actually sounds good. Promised myself I would make my own fruit yogurt this summer I'll have to try this one.
wickedpam on 04/16/2008 13:44:10
Quote by starling310:
Mmm....Kashi, Plain Yogurt with Raw Honey and Raspberries.
:drool:
that actually sounds good. Promised myself I would make my own fruit yogurt this summer I'll have to try this one.
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:47:07
The Raw Honey is good because it contains no sugar, but sweetens up the Plain yogurt a bit.
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:47:07
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by starling310:
Mmm....Kashi, Plain Yogurt with Raw Honey and Raspberries.
:drool:
that actually sounds good. Promised myself I would make my own fruit yogurt this summer I'll have to try this one.
The Raw Honey is good because it contains no sugar, but sweetens up the Plain yogurt a bit.
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 13:48:55
Healing vibes. Has the doctor found out how to treat your condition?
I do want to see the two of you in DC. If I had the money, I would make sure you guys can come up, but I had to make sure I had the money for myself. Ah, living in the Bush economy.
livingonli on 04/16/2008 13:48:55
Quote by velveeta jones:
Morning everyone.
Day 5 of my walking death crud. I'll mostly be in bed. Also, I will be figuring out if I can now afford the DC trip. Between me being sick, and my wife sick a few weeks ago, and my vet bills................. all unexpected............ things look bleak, trip wise.
:(
Healing vibes. Has the doctor found out how to treat your condition?
I do want to see the two of you in DC. If I had the money, I would make sure you guys can come up, but I had to make sure I had the money for myself. Ah, living in the Bush economy.
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:50:08
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:50:08
The guy who called Thom from Paris yesterday said "Yeah, I am taxed 50% but the income is more to start and I walk outside my flat onto clean streets and can take Public Transport anywhere I want to go."
Sounds good to me.
:shrug:
Sounds good to me.
:shrug:
Comment by wickedpam on 04/16/2008 13:50:20
We would hate to miss you but you and your family's health comes first
Plus I'm sure there would be another meet up, this is our third one so I'm sure there would be a fourth :D
wickedpam on 04/16/2008 13:50:20
Quote by velveeta jones:
Morning everyone.
Day 5 of my walking death crud. I'll mostly be in bed. Also, I will be figuring out if I can now afford the DC trip. Between me being sick, and my wife sick a few weeks ago, and my vet bills................. all unexpected............ things look bleak, trip wise.
:(
We would hate to miss you but you and your family's health comes first
Plus I'm sure there would be another meet up, this is our third one so I'm sure there would be a fourth :D
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:53:20
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:53:20
Daily Thoughts by Jack Handy:
Sometimes when I see a person fall, I laugh
But, then I think
"What if I were an ant and they fell on me?"
Then it wouldn't be so funny.
Sometimes when I see a person fall, I laugh
But, then I think
"What if I were an ant and they fell on me?"
Then it wouldn't be so funny.
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:55:21
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:55:21
HEY! Gas is up to $3.54 near my house. Isn't that fantastic? The drive to DC keeps getting more expensive every day.
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 13:55:27
To repeat what I posted in the SMS Live blog; 213.
Actually until Reagan’s tax cuts and compounded with the Bush II tax cuts, 90% of Americans paid less in taxes. The tax policies of the cons shifted the tax burden from the rich to the middle class by the fact that the income tax cuts were offset by increases in sales taxes, property taxes, and service fees which are paid more heavily by those with lower incomes (not to mention the cap at 90,000 on Social Security tax).
livingonli on 04/16/2008 13:55:27
Quote by starling310:
The guy who called Thom from Paris yesterday said "Yeah, I am taxed 50% but the income is more to start and I walk outside my flat onto clean streets and can take Public Transport anywhere I want to go."
Sounds good to me.
:shrug:
To repeat what I posted in the SMS Live blog; 213.
Actually until Reagan’s tax cuts and compounded with the Bush II tax cuts, 90% of Americans paid less in taxes. The tax policies of the cons shifted the tax burden from the rich to the middle class by the fact that the income tax cuts were offset by increases in sales taxes, property taxes, and service fees which are paid more heavily by those with lower incomes (not to mention the cap at 90,000 on Social Security tax).
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:56:28
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:56:28
DELISH!
Comment by velveeta jones on 04/16/2008 13:58:12
velveeta jones on 04/16/2008 13:58:12
Thanks Liv, but save your money. I'm not out yet, let me count my pennies.
Star, the yogurt with Kashi and honey sounds GREAT. Have you tried the greek yogurt? I'm addicted to it, with honey, banana and pecans.
BTB: be sure not to splurge and waste that cereal.
New Energy Order.....
Star, the yogurt with Kashi and honey sounds GREAT. Have you tried the greek yogurt? I'm addicted to it, with honey, banana and pecans.
BTB: be sure not to splurge and waste that cereal.
Take the food riots now spreading across the planet because the prices of staples are soaring, while stocks of basics are falling. In the last year, wheat (think flour) has risen by 130 percent, rice by 74 percent, soya by 87 percent, and corn by 31 percent, while there are now only eight to 12 weeks of cereal stocks left globally. Governments across the planetary map are shuddering.
New Energy Order.....
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:58:20
Yeah. My point, though, is that I'd be willing to pay more on two conditions:
1) Everyone paid more, wealthy people included and
2) We got something in return, like the ability to take Public Transport to work, free education, health care, etc, etc, etc.
starling310 on 04/16/2008 13:58:20
Quote by livingonli:Quote by starling310:
The guy who called Thom from Paris yesterday said "Yeah, I am taxed 50% but the income is more to start and I walk outside my flat onto clean streets and can take Public Transport anywhere I want to go."
Sounds good to me.
:shrug:
To repeat what I posted in the SMS Live blog; 213.
Actually until Reagan’s tax cuts and compounded with the Bush II tax cuts, 90% of Americans paid less in taxes. The tax policies of the cons shifted the tax burden from the rich to the middle class by the fact that the income tax cuts were offset by increases in sales taxes, property taxes, and service fees which are paid more heavily by those with lower incomes (not to mention the cap at 90,000 on Social Security tax).
Yeah. My point, though, is that I'd be willing to pay more on two conditions:
1) Everyone paid more, wealthy people included and
2) We got something in return, like the ability to take Public Transport to work, free education, health care, etc, etc, etc.
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 13:58:33
livingonli on 04/16/2008 13:58:33
:star: Gas is between 3.41 and 3.49 here. I believe Jersey is still cheaper.
At least we're not paying what Californians pay?
Or those wacky Canadians who now pay up to $1.16 a litre in some provinces.
At least we're not paying what Californians pay?
Or those wacky Canadians who now pay up to $1.16 a litre in some provinces.
Comment by 
jd_in_ny on 04/16/2008 13:58:51
word.
jd_in_ny on 04/16/2008 13:58:51
Quote by starling310: There's no such thing as a slow news week, these days. Don't sell me that B*llshit.
:grumble:
word.
Comment by 
Raine on 04/16/2008 14:01:42
Raine on 04/16/2008 14:01:42
Good morning!
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:02:20
livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:02:20
Good morning, Raine, jd and Mala.
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:03:03
WHAT?!?! I am going to go stock up on "Go Lean." Dammit.
I love Greek Yogurt! I can't get it at my local store though. . . have to drive to Trader Joe's. So, I usually just go with the Plain Non-Greek.
:(
starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:03:03
Quote by velveeta jones:
Thanks Liv, but save your money. I'm not out yet, let me count my pennies.
Star, the yogurt with Kashi and honey sounds GREAT. Have you tried the greek yogurt? I'm addicted to it, with honey, banana and pecans.
BTB: be sure not to splurge and waste that cereal.Take the food riots now spreading across the planet because the prices of staples are soaring, while stocks of basics are falling. In the last year, wheat (think flour) has risen by 130 percent, rice by 74 percent, soya by 87 percent, and corn by 31 percent, while there are now only eight to 12 weeks of cereal stocks left globally. Governments across the planetary map are shuddering.
New Energy Order.....
WHAT?!?! I am going to go stock up on "Go Lean." Dammit.
I love Greek Yogurt! I can't get it at my local store though. . . have to drive to Trader Joe's. So, I usually just go with the Plain Non-Greek.
:(
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:04:20
Mmm...we're not far from CA. CT tends to usually be right on their heels. That's why people get the impression that everyone living in CT is rich.
The $3.54 is one of the lower prices....near where I work it's around $3.69 and that is for Regular. Premium is over 4 bucks.
starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:04:20
Quote by livingonli:
:star: Gas is between 3.41 and 3.49 here. I believe Jersey is still cheaper.
At least we're not paying what Californians pay?
Or those wacky Canadians who now pay up to $1.16 a litre in some provinces.
Mmm...we're not far from CA. CT tends to usually be right on their heels. That's why people get the impression that everyone living in CT is rich.
The $3.54 is one of the lower prices....near where I work it's around $3.69 and that is for Regular. Premium is over 4 bucks.
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:09:52
livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:09:52
Momma did finally post on her own blog. 
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:10:27
livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:10:27
And now it's not loading. I think she broke it.
Comment by wickedpam on 04/16/2008 14:11:37
wickedpam on 04/16/2008 14:11:37
Hey Liv, Raine, jd, everyone!
Comment by wickedpam on 04/16/2008 14:13:07
wickedpam on 04/16/2008 14:13:07
Frank talks? More like talks about Frankenberry.
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:13:29
starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:13:29
Regarding Gas Prices:
In the UK and Canade they pay a great deal more than we do. However, they have duties included in that. Those duties are spent on things like Infrastructure, are they not? Also, they drive smaller cars and have a better Public transportation system, negating the need for cars for most people.
Just as I am not opposed to higher taxes, I would be supportive of a higher gas price, if it included a tax that could be used to better our Country and make us less independent on Oil.
Oh yeah, and if MOBIL wasn't making a 623738% profit!
In the UK and Canade they pay a great deal more than we do. However, they have duties included in that. Those duties are spent on things like Infrastructure, are they not? Also, they drive smaller cars and have a better Public transportation system, negating the need for cars for most people.
Just as I am not opposed to higher taxes, I would be supportive of a higher gas price, if it included a tax that could be used to better our Country and make us less independent on Oil.
Oh yeah, and if MOBIL wasn't making a 623738% profit!
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:16:11
starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:16:11
My name is Starling. And, I am a "tax and spend" Liberal.
I suppose it's better than Spend and Spend and Spend and Spend with no idea how to pay for it 'Conservative.'
I suppose it's better than Spend and Spend and Spend and Spend with no idea how to pay for it 'Conservative.'
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:18:53
livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:18:53
I can comment about Canada, can't about the UK. The taxes do help to pay infrastructure and other expenses can be attributed to the fact that they also have to pay Federal and Provincial Sales Taxes on most items as well. While many of the large cities in Canada have good public transportation systems like Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver. There are still huge chunks of rural areas where you can't get around without a car. Even when I was in Ottawa, it only has a small subway system which I think only goes around the main city although they do have bus lines for the subways. And most of Canada doesn't even have expressways, outside of the urban areas, the only freeways are the Quebec autoroutes and the 401 and some adjacent freeways that get around Southern Ontario.
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:23:20
starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:23:20
I guess I just think about what Thom says sometimes. He basically says let's jack up the cost of gas, but make it worth our while. And, let's get it to the point where people get sick of paying and we start investing in other energy, or giving up our cars.
I don't know. It's a painful theory, but maybe it would work.
:shrug:
I'm just bitter!
I don't know. It's a painful theory, but maybe it would work.
:shrug:
I'm just bitter!
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:28:04
livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:28:04
Mrs. McCain made worst person last night on KO with the plagaraizing (outright stealing) of the Rachel Ray recipes.
Comment by Raine on 04/16/2008 14:29:32
Raine on 04/16/2008 14:29:32
F8cking MCain... comments like this scare me. HE should know this stuff.
Comment by TriSec on 04/16/2008 14:37:01
TriSec on 04/16/2008 14:37:01
*grunt*
I suppose I should be thankful that this fair commonwealth hasn't cracked $3.40 gas yet. It's still 3.35 back in Watertown Square...
I can speak for the Maritime provinces...most of the "highways" there are two-lane country roads. But they are generally well-maintained. The so-called big cities in St. John, Frederickton, and Halifax/Dartmouth only have limited bus routes for public transit.
It's the GST (goods and services tax) that is really crushing up there...it's a tax on a tax, and works out to about 18% on everything. This is what they use to pay for their healthcare system. The hospitals in Halifax are just as good as Boston....but if you get more than an hour away from the city, good luck.
Papa TriSec has always stated that we should pick an arbitrary figure, say $5/gallon, and adjust the taxes to maintain that particular figure. That way the price wouldn't fluctuate, and the additional revenue could be used for other things.
Oh, and we could do this. Do you think that would help?
I suppose I should be thankful that this fair commonwealth hasn't cracked $3.40 gas yet. It's still 3.35 back in Watertown Square...
I can speak for the Maritime provinces...most of the "highways" there are two-lane country roads. But they are generally well-maintained. The so-called big cities in St. John, Frederickton, and Halifax/Dartmouth only have limited bus routes for public transit.
It's the GST (goods and services tax) that is really crushing up there...it's a tax on a tax, and works out to about 18% on everything. This is what they use to pay for their healthcare system. The hospitals in Halifax are just as good as Boston....but if you get more than an hour away from the city, good luck.
Papa TriSec has always stated that we should pick an arbitrary figure, say $5/gallon, and adjust the taxes to maintain that particular figure. That way the price wouldn't fluctuate, and the additional revenue could be used for other things.
Oh, and we could do this. Do you think that would help?
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:38:09
livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:38:09
Republicans just want to let the roads collapse so that they can go on with their mantra that government doesn't work. I noticed how road work has spiked up here in New York (and we have a lot of potholes over the last few years) since we've gotten a Democrat back as Governor.
Edited for clarification.
Edited for clarification.
Comment by m-hadley on 04/16/2008 14:41:19
m-hadley on 04/16/2008 14:41:19
Comment by livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:43:41
livingonli on 04/16/2008 14:43:41
So for those of you who check out the SMS blog. Who thinks that Clay is paid by the HRC campaign to troll there?
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:45:07
starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:45:07
I may have to go to StickerJunkie and make a
BITTER VOTER 4 OBAMA
Bumper Sticker.
You have to order in quantities of 100. Would anybody want 1?
Bumper Sticker.
You have to order in quantities of 100. Would anybody want 1?
Comment by TriSec on 04/16/2008 14:45:55
TriSec on 04/16/2008 14:45:55
hah.
All I know is the quality of roads in and around the town of Belmont, MA dramatically improved after Herr Mitt got in the running. The rest of this state is still hardly better than rutted dirt tracks...
All I know is the quality of roads in and around the town of Belmont, MA dramatically improved after Herr Mitt got in the running. The rest of this state is still hardly better than rutted dirt tracks...
Comment by TriSec on 04/16/2008 14:46:53
Ooooh, I might take one or two there!
TriSec on 04/16/2008 14:46:53
Quote by starling310:
I may have to go to StickerJunkie and make aBITTER VOTER 4 OBAMA
Bumper Sticker.
You have to order in quantities of 100. Would anybody want 1?
Ooooh, I might take one or two there!
Comment by wickedpam on 04/16/2008 14:49:06
Love that! Mind if I steal it for my cafepress shop?
wickedpam on 04/16/2008 14:49:06
Quote by starling310:
I may have to go to StickerJunkie and make aBITTER VOTER 4 OBAMA
Bumper Sticker.
You have to order in quantities of 100. Would anybody want 1?
Love that! Mind if I steal it for my cafepress shop?
Comment by starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:49:48
Oh really!? Fabulous.
I may do it. . . i happen to have extra cash this month.
Should I put quotes around the Bitter so people get it.
"BITTER" VOTER FOR OBAMA
starling310 on 04/16/2008 14:49:48
Quote by TriSec:Quote by starling310:
I may have to go to StickerJunkie and make aBITTER VOTER 4 OBAMA
Bumper Sticker.
You have to order in quantities of 100. Would anybody want 1?
Ooooh, I might take one or two there!
Oh really!? Fabulous.
I may do it. . . i happen to have extra cash this month.
Should I put quotes around the Bitter so people get it.
"BITTER" VOTER FOR OBAMA