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Hypocritical? No, it's Expected.
Author: Raine
Date: 08/21/2013 13:29:38
I wonder how gun owners feel about this: You'll recall last February LaPierre appeared on Fox news Sunday rallying against background check because it would lead to a national database of gun owners. Here we find that not only does the NRA practice what it expressly says it is against it is employing the very same tools that OFA has: They are indeed tracking people: They make money by getting these lists from states and adding them to their NRA database: We have been busy having heated discussions with regard to the 4th amendment as of late. Is it ironic that the NRA is using private information to keep track of gun owners to target them with an interest to increase gun sales? This is all allegedly being done to protect the 2nd amendment and yet private data is being used. In January, NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre gave a speech to the NRA in Nevada and stated: FactCheck debunks that claim by bringing attention to a federal law called the Brady Act There is no Federally run database; however, there is a private one owned by the NRA - one that can be used to track and cater to gun owners. Here's one example: a survey sent to gun owners earlier this year. It's a push poll designed to make people paranoid about government and guns. It fails to mention the Brady Act and misrepresents itself as truth. It also makes no mention that since 2005 the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS ) has gotten rid of all background check information after 24 hours.
2nd Amendment uber-supporters eat up surveys like this like candy. They believe everything the NRA says and they react just as the organization wants them to. It isn't much different from what we are seeing with regard to the Snowden/NSA/Guardian affair and those who say the 4th Amendment has been abused beyond repair.
People are claiming that government is the big bad monster in the room, when it appears they are being manipulated by forces that may have questionable motives. Surely the truth - with regards to both of these issues and the amendments that are being used in defense of the outrage - can lie somewhere in between. Time will tell.
In the mean time -- the NRA is doing the very thing they have railed rabidly against. Interesting times indeed.
and 
Raine
The National Rifle Association has rallied gun-owners — and raised tens of millions of dollars — campaigning against the threat of a national database of firearms or their owners.
But in fact, the sort of vast, secret database the NRA often warns of already exists, despite having been assembled largely without the knowledge or consent of gun owners. It is housed in the Virginia offices of the NRA itself. The country’s largest privately held database of current, former, and prospective gun owners is one of the powerful lobby’s secret weapons, expanding its influence well beyond its estimated 3 million members and bolstering its political supremacy.
Others in the business of big political data, however, say the NRA is using similar tools to those employed by the campaigns of its nemesis, President Barack Obama.
While the organization took great umbrage in December when a newspaper published the names and addresses of gun owners in two New York counties, the group for years as been gathering similar information via the same public records as a matter of course.
In Virginia, for instance, a North Carolina-based firm called Preferred Communications filed an inquiry with the Virginia State Police in July 2009 asking “on behalf of the National Rifle Association” as to whether the names of concealed-carry permit holders could be purchased. The e-mail was obtained by BuzzFeed by Freedom of Information Act request.
“After people take a class, then you as an instructor, can send all their names to Washington and you get credit for that,” Weisser said. “If you can show you’ve taught enough classes, you can move up in the hierarchy as an NRA trainer.”
Moving up in the hierarchy can mean being licensed to teach more types of gun safety classes and being able to charge more, he said.
Obama wants you to believe that putting the federal government in the middle of every firearm transaction — except those between criminals — will somehow make us safer.
That means forcing law-abiding people to fork over excessive fees to exercise their rights. Forcing parents to fill out forms to leave a family heirloom to a loved one — standing in line and filling out a bunch of bureaucratic paperwork, just so a grandfather can give a grandson a Christmas gift. He wants to put every private, personal transaction under the thumb of the federal government, and he wants to keep all those names in a massive federal registry.
There are only two reasons for that federal list of gun owners — to tax them or take them.
That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.
For this reason, the final rule was revised to conform to the legislative enactment setting a limit on how long the NICS may retain certain information on allowed transactions. The revised rule conformed to the 24-hour record retention provision in the Omnibus.
2nd Amendment uber-supporters eat up surveys like this like candy. They believe everything the NRA says and they react just as the organization wants them to. It isn't much different from what we are seeing with regard to the Snowden/NSA/Guardian affair and those who say the 4th Amendment has been abused beyond repair.
People are claiming that government is the big bad monster in the room, when it appears they are being manipulated by forces that may have questionable motives. Surely the truth - with regards to both of these issues and the amendments that are being used in defense of the outrage - can lie somewhere in between. Time will tell.
In the mean time -- the NRA is doing the very thing they have railed rabidly against. Interesting times indeed.
and Raine
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
Raine on 08/21/2013 13:33:11
Raine on 08/21/2013 13:33:11
Blog is up. Thank you, Tri for the Stub. I have saved your copy for all time:
Just throwing this up - I heard a story on the BBC this morning about a poet that is offering his services on Craigslist for commission. He's made a few hundred bucks already.
So, Trisec is offering up all the Haiku you need for $5 a pop!
We'll write it for you
Ponder the meaning of it
Then write me a check.
Comment by 
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 13:38:26
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 13:38:26
Morning 
Well you know its all different because, you know, guns.
Well you know its all different because, you know, guns.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 13:48:17
Right? Mind boggling.
Raine on 08/21/2013 13:48:17
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning
Well you know its all different because, you know, guns.
Comment by 
TriSec on 08/21/2013 13:52:59
TriSec on 08/21/2013 13:52:59
I think we should start spelling it "Hippo - crits", since they're about as subtle and delicate as a hippo running amok amongst the glass flowers...
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 13:53:58
Raine on 08/21/2013 13:53:58
Jebus christo almighty.
arrepender
Greenwald takes insult at the reporting of his words:
So I ask you, what is the difference between those two phrases?
"come to regret"
"be sorry for."
Greenwald claims to love free speech but he certainly has a problem with how people report on him. Hypocritical much Glenn?
arrepender
Greenwald takes insult at the reporting of his words:
"I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England, too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did," Greenwald, speaking in Portuguese, told reporters at Rio de Janeiro's airport where he met Miranda upon his return to Brazil.
Greenwald said in a subsequent email to Reuters that the Portuguese word "arrepender" should have been translated as "come to regret" not "be sorry for."
So I ask you, what is the difference between those two phrases?
"come to regret"
"be sorry for."
Greenwald claims to love free speech but he certainly has a problem with how people report on him. Hypocritical much Glenn?
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 13:55:20
I'm so sick of guns its not even funny - at this point I want to find a Tardis(or time traveling angel), go back in time and F with the people who discovered gun powder and firearms, I'll sacrifice my love of fireworks to feel safer from the crazies.
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 13:55:20
Quote by Raine:Right? Mind boggling.Quote by wickedpam:
Morning
Well you know its all different because, you know, guns.
I'm so sick of guns its not even funny - at this point I want to find a Tardis(or time traveling angel), go back in time and F with the people who discovered gun powder and firearms, I'll sacrifice my love of fireworks to feel safer from the crazies.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 13:56:07
gawd, he's a Mean Girl or maybe a Heather
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 13:56:07
Quote by Raine:
Jebus christo almighty.
arrepender
Greenwald takes insult at the reporting of his words:"I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England, too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did," Greenwald, speaking in Portuguese, told reporters at Rio de Janeiro's airport where he met Miranda upon his return to Brazil.
Greenwald said in a subsequent email to Reuters that the Portuguese word "arrepender" should have been translated as "come to regret" not "be sorry for."
So I ask you, what is the difference between those two phrases?
"come to regret"
"be sorry for."
Greenwald claims to love free speech but he certainly has a problem with how people report on him. Hypocritical much Glenn?
gawd, he's a Mean Girl or maybe a Heather
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 13:57:40
He's a protecter of democracy like Sarah Palin.
Raine on 08/21/2013 13:57:40
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Jebus christo almighty.
arrepender
Greenwald takes insult at the reporting of his words:"I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England, too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did," Greenwald, speaking in Portuguese, told reporters at Rio de Janeiro's airport where he met Miranda upon his return to Brazil.
Greenwald said in a subsequent email to Reuters that the Portuguese word "arrepender" should have been translated as "come to regret" not "be sorry for."
So I ask you, what is the difference between those two phrases?
"come to regret"
"be sorry for."
Greenwald claims to love free speech but he certainly has a problem with how people report on him. Hypocritical much Glenn?
gawd, he's a Mean Girl or maybe a Heather
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:01:50
oooooohhhhh, so attention whore
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:01:50
Quote by Raine:He's a protecter of democracy like Sarah Palin.Quote by wickedpam:Quote by Raine:
Jebus christo almighty.
arrepender
Greenwald takes insult at the reporting of his words:"I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England, too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did," Greenwald, speaking in Portuguese, told reporters at Rio de Janeiro's airport where he met Miranda upon his return to Brazil.
Greenwald said in a subsequent email to Reuters that the Portuguese word "arrepender" should have been translated as "come to regret" not "be sorry for."
So I ask you, what is the difference between those two phrases?
"come to regret"
"be sorry for."
Greenwald claims to love free speech but he certainly has a problem with how people report on him. Hypocritical much Glenn?
gawd, he's a Mean Girl or maybe a Heather
oooooohhhhh, so attention whore
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 14:05:27
Raine on 08/21/2013 14:05:27
I brought this Greenwald thing up because I am disappointed with Andrea Peterson, formerly of ThinkProgress now at WaPo. If anything her ire should be aimed solely at HuffPo. I quoted Rueters below. HuffPo used the word Vengeance and Greenwald was just pissy all around. If he doesn't like how people write about him, then maybe he should just write and not talk so much. (and NO I'm not trying to silence Greenwald)
Ugh.
Ugh.
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 14:10:13
Speaking of GG and or the Guardian, the Gummit goons made us break or servers story is starting to leak like worm chewed wooden ship.
Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 14:10:13
Quote by Raine:
Jebus christo almighty.
arrepender
Greenwald takes insult at the reporting of his words:"I will be far more aggressive in my reporting from now. I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England, too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did," Greenwald, speaking in Portuguese, told reporters at Rio de Janeiro's airport where he met Miranda upon his return to Brazil.
Greenwald said in a subsequent email to Reuters that the Portuguese word "arrepender" should have been translated as "come to regret" not "be sorry for."
So I ask you, what is the difference between those two phrases?
"come to regret"
"be sorry for."
Greenwald claims to love free speech but he certainly has a problem with how people report on him. Hypocritical much Glenn?
Speaking of GG and or the Guardian, the Gummit goons made us break or servers story is starting to leak like worm chewed wooden ship.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 14:14:27
Cesca has the 24 hour rule, I tend to go with 48 to 72.
Raine on 08/21/2013 14:14:27
Quote by Mondobubba:Speaking of GG and or the Guardian, the Gummit goons made us break or servers story is starting to leak like worm chewed wooden ship.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 14:18:48
Raine on 08/21/2013 14:18:48
Anyone been watching *the Newsroom* ? After watching last Sunday's ep, I was thinking the very same thing. Click ----> 
<--- Click
<--- Click
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:23:13
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:23:13
Heard its good but never watched, I'll have to add it to my netflix - right after I finish my binges on Supernatural, Sherlock, Dexter, True Blood, Orphan Black ..... 
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:24:15
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:24:15
Looks like Manning is going to get 35 years.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:27:22
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:27:22
oops, I defer to the Good Lady from the Del of Ray
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 14:28:11
What is happening on the show is eerily paralleling what is happening wrt Greenwald. It's getting very good.
Raine on 08/21/2013 14:28:11
Quote by wickedpam:
Heard its good but never watched, I'll have to add it to my netflix - right after I finish my binges on Supernatural, Sherlock, Dexter, True Blood, Orphan Black .....
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:31:56
cool, sounds good
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:31:56
Quote by Raine:What is happening on the show is eerily paralleling what is happening wrt Greenwald. It's getting very good.Quote by wickedpam:
Heard its good but never watched, I'll have to add it to my netflix - right after I finish my binges on Supernatural, Sherlock, Dexter, True Blood, Orphan Black .....
cool, sounds good
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 14:33:24
Naw -- let's just say
I think it is a fair sentence.
Raine on 08/21/2013 14:33:24
Quote by wickedpam:
oops, I defer to the Good Lady from the Del of Ray
Naw -- let's just say
I think it is a fair sentence.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:33:41
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:33:41
You what I just noticed? My view habits are a little on the bloody side 
, think I just scared myself . 
, think I just scared myself .
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 14:34:15
That makes me sound like a Catholic Church... 
Raine on 08/21/2013 14:34:15
Quote by wickedpam:
oops, I defer to the Good Lady from the Del of Ray
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:34:20
no prob - have a warehouse full
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:34:20
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
oops, I defer to the Good Lady from the Del of Ray
Naw -- let's just say
I think it is a fair sentence.
no prob - have a warehouse full
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 14:34:49
You just noticed that? 
Raine on 08/21/2013 14:34:49
Quote by wickedpam:
You what I just noticed? My view habits are a little on the bloody side
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:34:50
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:34:50
Quote by Raine:That makes me sound like a Catholic Church...Quote by wickedpam:
oops, I defer to the Good Lady from the Del of Ray
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:37:48
I'm just going to think of it as prepping of any possible apocalypse - although with Supernatural it does have the added appeal of ...
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:37:48
Quote by Raine:You just noticed that?Quote by wickedpam:
You what I just noticed? My view habits are a little on the bloody side
I'm just going to think of it as prepping of any possible apocalypse - although with Supernatural it does have the added appeal of ...
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:38:44
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:38:44
sorry got all fangirl there for a sec
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 14:43:36
Raine on 08/21/2013 14:43:36
Speaking of phan girl/guy Where is Mondo and scoop?
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:47:43
Mondo was just here and Scoop I just saw on FB
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 14:47:43
Quote by Raine:
Speaking of phan girl/guy Where is Mondo and scoop?
Mondo was just here and Scoop I just saw on FB
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 14:56:36
Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 14:56:36
Hmm, what? Somebody mentioned my name? 
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 15:08:37
I wanted to know if you have been watching The Newsroom.
Raine on 08/21/2013 15:08:37
Quote by Mondobubba:
Hmm, what? Somebody mentioned my name?
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 15:11:42
Raine on 08/21/2013 15:11:42
ALCU issued a press release on the Manning sentence: I'm pissed that the torturers haven't gone to jail. I also don't believe that two wrongs don;t make a right.
One more sticky point: Manning was not convicted of treason.
"When a soldier who shared information with the press and public is punished far more harshly than others who tortured prisoners and killed civilians, something is seriously wrong with our justice system. A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest and treason against the nation will not only produce unjust results, but will deprive the public of critical information that is necessary for democratic accountability. This is a sad day for Bradley Manning, but it's also a sad day for all Americans who depend on brave whistleblowers and a free press for a fully informed public debate."
One more sticky point: Manning was not convicted of treason.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 15:15:25
Edited for correction.
Raine on 08/21/2013 15:15:25
Quote by Raine:
ALCU issued a press release on the Manning sentence:I'm pissed that the torturers haven't gone to jail. I also don't believe that two wrongs"When a soldier who shared information with the press and public is punished far more harshly than others who tortured prisoners and killed civilians, something is seriously wrong with our justice system. A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest and treason against the nation will not only produce unjust results, but will deprive the public of critical information that is necessary for democratic accountability. This is a sad day for Bradley Manning, but it's also a sad day for all Americans who depend on brave whistleblowers and a free press for a fully informed public debate."don;tmake a right.
One more sticky point: Manning was not convicted of treason.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 15:23:21
Raine on 08/21/2013 15:23:21
This is great as well.
I would like to note that it is possible to have several parallel thoughts on national security, detainment, journalism, and other topics in your brain at the same time.
Here are some things I believe, all at once:
1) I don’t believe in indiscriminate leaking of national security documents.
2) I believe that our government over classifies and keeps too much secret from us.
3) I don’t believe that just anyone has a right to declassify national secrets because they dislike secrecy.
4) I think that world governments have overreacted to terrorism and there is way too much surveillance and security theater at airports
5) But some airport counterterror measures make sense and people whine about them too much
6) Journalists aren’t special, in that if they traffic in illegal material I don’t think reporting on those illegally gained materials automatically makes you immune from all laws/prosecution
7) But journalists should always try to find the truth, but also be aware that people – officials or activists – who give you secrets often have their own agendas too
8) We have to kill terrorists
9) But we shouldn’t be stupid about how we do it.
10) Glenn Greenwald really likes a lot of attention, is prone to hyperbole, and has a martyrdom mentality.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 15:36:54
Me no have the HBO.
Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 15:36:54
Quote by Raine:I wanted to know if you have been watching The Newsroom.Quote by Mondobubba:
Hmm, what? Somebody mentioned my name?
Me no have the HBO.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 15:52:19
Damn. I wanted people to read the link I posted about Greenwald and the Newsroom.
Raine on 08/21/2013 15:52:19
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:I wanted to know if you have been watching The Newsroom.Quote by Mondobubba:
Hmm, what? Somebody mentioned my name?
Me no have the HBO.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 15:54:20
Our Good Lady of Del Ray. Just a bit of an edit to make it more Catholicly sounding.
Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 15:54:20
Quote by Raine:That makes me sound like a Catholic Church...Quote by wickedpam:
oops, I defer to the Good Lady from the Del of Ray
Our Good Lady of Del Ray. Just a bit of an edit to make it more Catholicly sounding.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 16:01:13
Okay read it. I am tracking sort of since I've not seen this season. But Chez Pazienza is spot on about GG. Greenwald has made this massive a priori assumption about government spying and secrecy and now he think (in his own mind) that he has the "proof" about how evil the gummit is. And yes, Greenwald is an attention whore.
Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 16:01:13
Quote by Raine:
Anyone been watching *the Newsroom* ? After watching last Sunday's ep, I was thinking the very same thing.Click ---->
Okay read it. I am tracking sort of since I've not seen this season. But Chez Pazienza is spot on about GG. Greenwald has made this massive a priori assumption about government spying and secrecy and now he think (in his own mind) that he has the "proof" about how evil the gummit is. And yes, Greenwald is an attention whore.
Comment by 
livingonli on 08/21/2013 16:05:37
livingonli on 08/21/2013 16:05:37
Good day, folks. I really wish the pace of baseball games would pickup since I have had another long baseball game which seems to take forever and moves at a snail's pace. Makes me wish Hockey season would come.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 16:07:03
May peace be with you my child.
Raine on 08/21/2013 16:07:03
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:That makes me sound like a Catholic Church...Quote by wickedpam:
oops, I defer to the Good Lady from the Del of Ray
Our Good Lady of Del Ray. Just a bit of an edit to make it more Catholicly sounding.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/21/2013 16:10:20
wickedpam on 08/21/2013 16:10:20
errand running time brb
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 16:13:26
:bows head reverently:
Mondobubba on 08/21/2013 16:13:26
Quote by Raine:May peace be with you my child.Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:That makes me sound like a Catholic Church...Quote by wickedpam:
oops, I defer to the Good Lady from the Del of Ray
Our Good Lady of Del Ray. Just a bit of an edit to make it more Catholicly sounding.
:bows head reverently:
Comment by TriSec on 08/21/2013 16:17:47
TriSec on 08/21/2013 16:17:47
Say gang, did you know that there was a battle in the War of Independence that was fought in India?
(admittedly we weren't involved; it was between England and France.)
(admittedly we weren't involved; it was between England and France.)
Comment by 
Scoopster on 08/21/2013 16:20:13
Scoopster on 08/21/2013 16:20:13
Mornin' all.. 
<- espresso from my new cast iron perc pot! 
I, like Mondo, do not have the HBO since I've made the choice not to subscribe to the cable/satellite ripoff.
However I do have my methods
so I am quite caught up! I'm really close to achieving power user status so I can swing a invitation your way soon.
<- espresso from my new cast iron perc pot! I, like Mondo, do not have the HBO since I've made the choice not to subscribe to the cable/satellite ripoff.
However I do have my methods
so I am quite caught up! I'm really close to achieving power user status so I can swing a invitation your way soon.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 16:24:28
The guardian has video of what happened:
Raine on 08/21/2013 16:24:28
Quote by Mondobubba
Speaking of GG and or the Guardian, the Gummit goons made us break or servers story is starting to leak like worm chewed wooden ship.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 16:26:46
Raine on 08/21/2013 16:26:46
Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all..
I, like Mondo, do not have the HBO since I've made the choice not to subscribe to the cable/satellite ripoff.
However I do have my methods
Comment by Scoopster on 08/21/2013 16:34:10
Scoopster on 08/21/2013 16:34:10
Oh! As I mentioned on FB, I'm down another 6lbs since June, to 355. That's 25lbs down for the past year, although I was at 340 & bounced back up before moving.
Next thing is I gotta save up for a road bike. I'm close enough to work that I can just bike there & back instead of taking the bus. The game shop too.
Next thing is I gotta save up for a road bike. I'm close enough to work that I can just bike there & back instead of taking the bus. The game shop too.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 17:13:12
Congrats Scoop!
Raine on 08/21/2013 17:13:12
Quote by Scoopster:
Oh! As I mentioned on FB, I'm down another 6lbs since June, to 355. That's 25lbs down for the past year, although I was at 340 & bounced back up before moving.
Next thing is I gotta save up for a road bike. I'm close enough to work that I can just bike there & back instead of taking the bus. The game shop too.
Comment by Raine on 08/21/2013 17:14:45
Raine on 08/21/2013 17:14:45
Manning has to serve at least 1/3 of the thirty five years however he will be getting credit for his time already served.
Manning will probably serve 10-12 years.
Manning will probably serve 10-12 years.
Comment by livingonli on 08/21/2013 17:32:08
livingonli on 08/21/2013 17:32:08
Al-Jazeera America is actually showing the press conference from the Manning lawyer in response to the sentencing.