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Option C
Author: BobR    Date: 09/05/2013 12:24:07

The conundrum that is Syria continues to confound. What is the proper action? Who should take it? What do terms like "military action" mean? What happens if the UN decides against military action? What if the House decides against it? These are difficult and troubling times. People have to think about Germany in the late 1930s and Rwanda and the Belgian Congo and decide when it's appropriate to intervene. Are a few deaths at the hands of the U.S. military okay if it means saving many thousands more? Are we the world's police? Should we be? Will intervention just make matters worse?

As discussed previously on this blog, the previous administration really screwed the pooch for further humanitarian intervention by the U.S. by lying about the intelligence, and then bogging us down in a costly and deadly occupation. The country and even the rest of the world is jaded and wary about claims of WMD and the need for immediate action before the inspectors release their report results. This is one of those few situations where it does not break down along party lines. Some Republicans are gung-ho for intervention; others are taking a libertarian approach. Some Democrats are in favor of intervention for humanitarian reasons; others are against it for anti-war reasons. Whatever decision is made, half of the country (and a lot of the international community) will be very angry.

This president (and SoS John Kerry) are not stupid. They know the stakes, and they've seen the classified intelligence. I don't understand why a swift and immediate response is required before the inspectors have released their report. Are they concerned the report will come back inconclusive or contradict what they know and can't say in public? It seems to me that if a strike is ordered before the report results are released, and then the results say "not sure about that", it will forever tarnish President Obama's legacy in the same way that Bush's legacy is tarnished.

Part of the problem may be the nebulous language of "military action". What does that mean? In some people's minds, they see the boots-on-the-ground actions we took in Iraq, and a long, costly, and deadly war. If the problem is the use of chemical weapons, then preventing their use could be as simple as taking out radar antennas and putting big holes in the runways used by Syria's jets. That would severely limit their Air Force with minimal (possibly zero) human death. I am guessing, though, that the administration doesn't want to produce a laundry list of targets for obvious reasons.

The UN is still trying to coordinate peace talks, which is absolutely appropriate. A peaceful solution is absolutely desireable (maybe we need to send Jimmy Carter). Sometimes, though, a little leverage helps. Enforcing a no-fly zone over Syria would prevent most deployment of WMD, and cut back on conflict and death in general. Economic sanctions would provide leverage as well. These are things the UN can and should do.

What's encouraging, though, is that we as a nation (and a world of nations) are having this discussion. What needs to be clarified are what the terms mean, what the limits of actions would be, and the realization that there are more options than just carpet bombing or humanitarian aid.
 

54 comments (Latest Comment: 09/05/2013 23:33:45 by Will in Chicago)
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Comment by wickedpam on 09/05/2013 13:05:15
Morning

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 13:11:40
Hola Mala y everybody else.

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 13:12:58
Good Morning!

Breaking news: The National zoo has revealed that the panda cub is a girl!

And -- Tian Tian is the baby daddy! (his boys can swim!!! )

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 13:20:53
I wish I could have written these words. They hit on all of my concerns.

Thanks Bobber.

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 13:22:37
Quote by Raine:
Good Morning!

Breaking news: The National zoo has revealed that the panda cub is a girl!

And -- Tian Tian is the baby daddy! (his boys can swim!!! )


When did they announce that? The NPR Mosheen people were saying it would be "today."

Yay baby girl panda!

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 13:25:51
There are so many things wrong with this I don;t know where to begin.
TSA says later this year it will launch an application process to allow passengers who want to join PreCheck to pay $85, verify their identity and provide fingerprints at an enrollment center.



Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 13:26:22
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Good Morning!

Breaking news: The National zoo has revealed that the panda cub is a girl!

And -- Tian Tian is the baby daddy! (his boys can swim!!! )


When did they announce that? The NPR Mosheen people were saying it would be "today."

Yay baby girl panda!
WTOP announced it just around 9 am.


Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/05/2013 13:32:29
Good morning, bloggers!! BobR, thanks for a great blog!!

It is crucial that we have this debate, as there are a lot of questions about what we can do (if anything) in this situation. Debate is healthy for our nation and is a sign of strength, not weakness.

I will try to stop back later after Rosh Hashanah services. Happy New Year 5774!! May we all be writ for a good year in the Book of Life. May this world be writ for a good year in the Book of Life.

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 13:33:59
Livin will probably remember this case (it was back in 1992) Katie Beers' kidnapper found dead in his prison cell.

I lived one town away from where this happened and went to a pizza place that she used to hang out at. (never saw her there)

Comment by wickedpam on 09/05/2013 13:37:39
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Good Morning!

Breaking news: The National zoo has revealed that the panda cub is a girl!

And -- Tian Tian is the baby daddy! (his boys can swim!!! )


When did they announce that? The NPR Mosheen people were saying it would be "today."

Yay baby girl panda!
WTOP announced it just around 9 am.



Can we name her Squeakers? Please!!!! Pretty Please!!!!!


Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 13:39:07
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Good morning, bloggers!! BobR, thanks for a great blog!!

It is crucial that we have this debate, as there are a lot of questions about what we can do (if anything) in this situation. Debate is healthy for our nation and is a sign of strength, not weakness.

I will try to stop back later after Rosh Hashanah services. Happy New Year 5774!! May we all be writ for a good year in the Book of Life. May this world be writ for a good year in the Book of Life.
Happy new year!


Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 13:39:09
Quote by Raine:
There are so many things wrong with this I don;t know where to begin.
TSA says later this year it will launch an application process to allow passengers who want to join PreCheck to pay $85, verify their identity and provide fingerprints at an enrollment center.




I have a friend who's in that program, but he travels 3 weeks out of 4 for work. I think the program should be limited to folks like him who practically live in airports.

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 13:40:06
More about Katie Beers. I'm so glad that she was able to overcome such a horrible start to her life.

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 13:46:47
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Good Morning!

Breaking news: The National zoo has revealed that the panda cub is a girl!

And -- Tian Tian is the baby daddy! (his boys can swim!!! )


When did they announce that? The NPR Mosheen people were saying it would be "today."

Yay baby girl panda!
WTOP announced it just around 9 am.



Can we name her Squeakers? Please!!!! Pretty Please!!!!!



Or whatever the Mandarin for Squeakers is?

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 13:47:45
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
There are so many things wrong with this I don;t know where to begin.
TSA says later this year it will launch an application process to allow passengers who want to join PreCheck to pay $85, verify their identity and provide fingerprints at an enrollment center.




I have a friend who's in that program, but he travels 3 weeks out of 4 for work. I think the program should be limited to folks like him who practically live in airports.
I have a friend who does a lot of travel as well -- so yeah it does make sense --

The thing that bugs me is making profit off of fear.

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 13:55:21
Whatever China decides to call her, she's Squee--ky to me!

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 13:58:04
Quote by Raine:
Whatever China decides to call her, she's Squee--ky to me!





Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 14:09:26
Oh hey look... I'm listening to WTOP...

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 15:03:34
Got vereh quiet in here...

Comment by wickedpam on 09/05/2013 15:07:55
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Good Morning!

Breaking news: The National zoo has revealed that the panda cub is a girl!

And -- Tian Tian is the baby daddy! (his boys can swim!!! )


When did they announce that? The NPR Mosheen people were saying it would be "today."

Yay baby girl panda!
WTOP announced it just around 9 am.



Can we name her Squeakers? Please!!!! Pretty Please!!!!!



Or whatever the Mandarin for Squeakers is?


Screw China - its Squeakers or nothing!


Comment by wickedpam on 09/05/2013 15:08:46
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Whatever China decides to call her, she's Squee--ky to me!






Okay I rescind Squeakers for Squee-ky

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 15:09:11
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
Good Morning!

Breaking news: The National zoo has revealed that the panda cub is a girl!

And -- Tian Tian is the baby daddy! (his boys can swim!!! )


When did they announce that? The NPR Mosheen people were saying it would be "today."

Yay baby girl panda!
WTOP announced it just around 9 am.



Can we name her Squeakers? Please!!!! Pretty Please!!!!!



Or whatever the Mandarin for Squeakers is?


Screw China - its Squeakers or nothing!



China gets to name them. Squeakers is a great name though

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 15:37:54
Comment by livingonli on 09/05/2013 15:44:33
Good morning, folks. Sounds like the salt mine is keeping everyone from being chatty today.

Comment by Scoopster on 09/05/2013 15:49:32
Mornin' all..

We're on war footing today here in the office.. our SEO guru has discovered a website that basically lifted our ENTIRE homepage text and claimed it for their own. And to boot it looks like the company is running a ponzi scheme. SUMMON THE CONSIGLIERE!

Comment by wickedpam on 09/05/2013 15:57:58
If anyone has teacher friends let them know about Random Acts - Class Act Award

Comment by livingonli on 09/05/2013 16:10:46
Al-Jazeera America is showing a protest at the Walmart in Valley Stream which is near the Green Acres Mall in my old home town.

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 16:11:38
Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all..

We're on war footing today here in the office.. our SEO guru has discovered a website that basically lifted our ENTIRE homepage text and claimed it for their own. And to boot it looks like the company is running a ponzi scheme. SUMMON THE CONSIGLIERE!



Go buy some mattresses, Scoop!

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 17:04:45
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning, folks. Sounds like the salt mine is keeping everyone from being chatty today.
Liv, did you see the Story I posted below about KAtie Beers' kidnapper having died?


Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 17:05:20
Quote by livingonli:
Al-Jazeera America is showing a protest at the Walmart in Valley Stream which is near the Green Acres Mall in my old home town.





Comment by livingonli on 09/05/2013 17:11:47
Quote by Raine:
Quote by livingonli:
Good morning, folks. Sounds like the salt mine is keeping everyone from being chatty today.
Liv, did you see the Story I posted below about KAtie Beers' kidnapper having died?

I did. I remember when that was all over News 12 and Newsday.

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 17:48:43
Comment by livingonli on 09/05/2013 17:58:32
The salt mine calls. We're getting a free barbecue for the start of football season.

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 18:00:12
Quote by livingonli:
The salt mine calls. We're getting a free barbecue for the start of football season.
Awesome!


Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 18:01:17
I love him, but not that much.

I can make one out of tin foil!


Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 18:04:46
ooOOoo Don't know what to make of this:
@markknoller
Pres. Obama walks alone to the G20 dinner - about 1/2 hr after all the other leaders walked over as a group..




Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 18:17:39
Great opinion piece from Kristof of the NYT. The whole thing is really thought provoking.


A decade ago, I was aghast that so many liberals were backing the Iraq war. Today, I’m dismayed that so many liberals, disillusioned by Iraq, seem willing to let an average of 165 Syrians be killed daily rather than contemplate missile strikes that just might, at the margins, make a modest difference.


Comment by Scoopster on 09/05/2013 18:36:19
Quote by Raine:
Great opinion piece from Kristof of the NYT. The whole thing is really thought provoking.
A decade ago, I was aghast that so many liberals were backing the Iraq war. Today, I’m dismayed that so many liberals, disillusioned by Iraq, seem willing to let an average of 165 Syrians be killed daily rather than contemplate missile strikes that just might, at the margins, make a modest difference.

That piece seems kinda disingenuous to me. Almost immediately he discounts mediated talks which have barely been attempted AND UN inspections for chemical weapons which had barely begun when the inspectors were spirited out of the country because of the threat of our air strikes.

I'm not saying that targeted air strikes shouldn't happen. I'm saying that if he wants to make a case for them he shouldn't be trying to obscure the fact that peaceful means have NOT been exhausted.

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 18:40:46
Quote by Raine:
I love him, but not that much.

I can make one out of tin foil!



The thing is friggin 'uge too. It is almost 8 feet across.


Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 18:45:57
Speaking of Tri, he seems some sorta bus man's holiday today. He and the heir have been hitting all the tourist spots in Boston. Great pictures being a-posted to the Facepage.

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 18:50:20
So I meant to tell you, we missed this bit of drama while we were at Ocean City. It was kinda sad to see parts of it still not submerged the day we left.

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 19:03:39
Quote by Scoopster:
Quote by Raine:
Great opinion piece from Kristof of the NYT. The whole thing is really thought provoking.
A decade ago, I was aghast that so many liberals were backing the Iraq war. Today, I’m dismayed that so many liberals, disillusioned by Iraq, seem willing to let an average of 165 Syrians be killed daily rather than contemplate missile strikes that just might, at the margins, make a modest difference.

That piece seems kinda disingenuous to me. Almost immediately he discounts mediated talks which have barely been attempted AND UN inspections for chemical weapons which had barely begun when the inspectors were spirited out of the country because of the threat of our air strikes.

I'm not saying that targeted air strikes shouldn't happen. I'm saying that if he wants to make a case for them he shouldn't be trying to obscure the fact that peaceful means have NOT been exhausted.
I hadn't looked at it that way.

I know that people are questioning the BBC piece (and I decided to watch it myself and have concluded that I know nothing and will assume nothing about what a school in Syria looks like)

Kristof -- to me at least -- isn't generally known as a hawk. He's got a pretty good record on human rights abuse. I think he was the one who was one of the first to write about Darfur.







Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 19:04:40
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by Raine:
I love him, but not that much.

I can make one out of tin foil!



The thing is friggin 'uge too. It is almost 8 feet across.
IS that a challenge? Send blog collections my way and I will build it.


Comment by TriSec on 09/05/2013 19:41:03
Hi all....back from a day trip to our city on the Charlestown end of the Freedom Trail...

Sometimes it's fun to be a tourist in your backyard, mmmm? (Especially when the tourists from the "heartland" get some of the preconceived notions shattered...)

Will, we were at the Boston Holocaust memorial today too. Somehow felt wrong to take a picture of that one.


In any case...home, catching up, then off to soccer practice!




Comment by TriSec on 09/05/2013 20:09:46
I really and truly appreciate the idea of a titanium RB211 compressor blade, but I know a place in Florida that has working RB Merlins for only around $10k....



Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 20:25:42
Quote by TriSec:
I really and truly appreciate the idea of a titanium RB211 compressor blade, but I know a place in Florida that has working RB Merlins for only around $10k....




Meh, he doesn't want it, Raine

Comment by TriSec on 09/05/2013 20:27:58


RB211 in action!

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/05/2013 20:48:50
Quote by TriSec:
Hi all....back from a day trip to our city on the Charlestown end of the Freedom Trail...

Sometimes it's fun to be a tourist in your backyard, mmmm? (Especially when the tourists from the "heartland" get some of the preconceived notions shattered...)

Will, we were at the Boston Holocaust memorial today too. Somehow felt wrong to take a picture of that one.


In any case...home, catching up, then off to soccer practice!





Those were some awesome pictures of your fair city that you posted the book of the face.

Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 21:21:22
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by TriSec:
I really and truly appreciate the idea of a titanium RB211 compressor blade, but I know a place in Florida that has working RB Merlins for only around $10k....




Meh, he doesn't want it, Raine
Oh well. I could have made an awesome replica.


Comment by Raine on 09/05/2013 21:22:45
Quote by wickedpam:
If anyone has teacher friends let them know about Random Acts - Class Act Award
I missed this earlier, VERY cool!