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Author: TriSec    Date: 10/23/2007 10:25:31

Good Morning.

Another week at war, our 1,679th day in Iraq.

We'll start this morning as we always do, with the latest casualty figures courtesy of Antiwar.com::

American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 3834
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 3695
Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03): 3373
Since Handover (6/29/04): 2975
Since Election (1/31/05): 2397

Other Coalition Troops: 303
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 449


We find this morning's Cost of War standing at
$462,335,150,000.00




Turning to our friends at IAVA, we find an interesting column by a returning Iraq vet. It's something we have spoken of often, the "What, me worry?" attitude of most Americans during a time of war, seemingly without a care for what is going on overseas.



It's appropriately titled Party here, Sacrifice over there...
IN January 2006 I stepped off a C-130 in Tal Afar, Iraq. As I began my 13-month deployment, I imagined an American public following our progress with the same concern as my family and friends. But since returning home, I have seen that America has changed the channel.

Young investment bankers spend their impressive bonuses on clubs in Manhattan and many seem uninterested in the soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. As a Princeton graduate and a former financial analyst, I was once a part of this world, and I like returning to it, putting the Spartan life of Tal Afar and Anbar Province behind me. But even as I enjoy time with the friends who have welcomed me home, my thoughts wander back to other friends who continue to fight as the city parties on.

Serious problems with the war in Iraq are well chronicled, but I am struck by one that does not seem to trouble the country's leadership, even though it is profoundly corrosive to our common good: the disparity between the lives of the few who are fighting and being killed, and the many who have been asked for nothing more than to continue shopping.

Those who rationalize this disconnect have argued that our soldiers are volunteers, happy doing what they signed up to do. While it is true that most soldiers are devoted to country and comrades, and are focused on their mission, the assertion that soldiers are cheerfully returning for multiple combat tours is grounded in statistics and arguments that are misleading.

Supposedly impressive re-enlistment rates are cited as evidence that soldiers enthusiastically support the war effort. In reality, these retention numbers are more the result of the "stop-loss" policy, where soldiers are required to remain in the Army after their contracts have expired if their units are deployed or ordered to deploy soon. My platoon's infantrymen expected to be "stop-lossed" and some felt they might as well cash in on the re-enlistment bonuses if they were going to be forced to stay in the Army anyway.

Few of today's soldiers expected 15-month deployments separated by home stays of less than 12 months. The stress on Army families is enormous, especially since at least four of those months at "home" are generally spent training in the field. Sacrifices like these were the norm in World War II, and families left behind could draw strength from the knowledge that everyone was in the same situation. Today's military families shoulder this burden pretty much alone.
Continued...


On the political front this morning, we're sinking ever deeper into the sands of Iraq, our veteran's care system is broken down, and the troops still don't have enough armor and supplies...and yet the Pentagon is looking ahead to the next war.
WASHINGTON, Oct. 21 — The new chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff plans to press Congress and the public to sustain the current high levels of military spending — even after the Iraq war — arguing for money to repair and replace worn-out weapons and to restore American ground forces he described as “breakable,” though not yet broken.

The new chairman, Adm. Mike Mullen, expressed deep concerns that the long counterinsurgency missions in Iraq and Afghanistan have so consumed the military that the Army and Marine Corps may be unprepared for a high-intensity war against a major adversary.

He rejected the counsel of those who might urge immediate attacks inside Iran to destroy nuclear installations or to stop the flow of explosives that end up as powerful roadside bombs in Iraq or Afghanistan, killing American troops.

With America at war in two Muslim countries, he said, attacking a third Islamic nation in the region “has extraordinary challenges and risks associated with it.” The military option, he said, should be a last resort.

But Admiral Mullen warned any nation, including Iran, not to “mistake restraint for lack of commitment or lack of concern or lack of capability.” He described the Air Force and Navy as America’s “strategic reserve,” ready to carry out a full range of combat operations beyond Iraq and Afghanistan.

In his first interview since becoming chairman, Admiral Mullen sat in his Pentagon office on Friday and described his three immediate priorities:

Develop a military strategy for the Middle East, beyond Iraq and Afghanistan.

Accelerate efforts to “reconstitute, reset, revitalize” the armed forces, which he said meant replacing combat equipment and tending to the needs of those in uniform, in particular soldiers and marines and their families.

Refocus the military’s attention beyond the current wars to prepare for other challenges, especially along the Pacific Rim and in Africa.

Those efforts will require a considerable commitment of money, and Pentagon officials are quietly acknowledging that Congress and the public may have little appetite after Iraq for sustaining the high levels of military spending carried out since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

But Admiral Mullen said that an important part of his job would be making the case for maintaining those large military budgets.

“I think as a country we’re just going to have to devote more resources to national security in the world that we’re living in right now,” he said. “And I don’t do that lightly.”

“I recognize that the budget is higher now than it’s ever been,” he added, referring to the combined total of the basic annual Defense Department budget and the special supplemental budgets to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Military spending is hovering around 4 percent of gross domestic product, “and I would see that in the future as an absolute floor,” Admiral Mullen said.



And so it goes.




 

184 comments (Latest Comment: 10/24/2007 04:17:21 by Raine)
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Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 13:26:47
Fristy pants.

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 13:51:37
Morning! :hug:



Second!

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 13:54:29
Morning! 3rd.

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 13:54:45
I have control over my emotions? :scratch:

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 13:55:32
Sleep deprivation... not a real good thing.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 13:56:26
Quote by wickedpam: I have control over my emotions? :scratch:
Tell me how you do that!

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 13:57:46
Seriously!

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 14:00:43
Sleep is very important.



Morning Raine.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:01:41
I wish, regarding these fires, that California had the national guard... :(

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 14:02:39
Quote by Raine:

I wish, regarding these fires, that California had the national guard... :(


Except Bush has probably sent them all to Iraq.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:05:43
Hey liv... are you listening to the news on Pheonix? Did you catch that story about Chertoff using the REal ID act to circumvent environmental laws to build the border fence? Did I hear that correctly?

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 14:07:14
Quote by Raine:

Hey liv... are you listening to the news on Pheonix? Did you catch that story about Chertoff using the REal ID act to circumvent environmental laws to build the border fence? Did I hear that correctly?


I'm listening to the Stephstream so I get the Wild Thing which sounded like it was really stuck in the beginning.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:07:17
So I have come to a conclusion. I do not like the new graphics stylings on the Keith Olberman show.. I especially do not like the worse, worser worst graphics.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:12:16
:rofl: Oh that larry craig drop! :rofl:

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:12:59
They got the chiggers!The beaver area has the chiggers!

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 14:16:22
Did Steph just say Newlin Zeland?

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 14:17:07
Quote by wickedpam:

Did Steph just say Newlin Zeland?


I wouldn't rule it out.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:21:09
Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 14:26:22
:rofl: That's the quality of the candidates.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:29:05
Bernard KErik, AND too much eyeliner....Those are Rudy's issues...;)

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 14:33:18
Quote by Raine:

Bernard KErik, AND too much eyeliner....Those are Rudy's issues...;)


And don't forget some of the other people Ghouilani has picked for his campaign. Mr. Tough on Crime has been associating with a lot of sleazy characters.

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 14:34:21
Morning, folks... :coffee:

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:34:43
http://blogs.nypost.com/movies/rudy.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/M/e/1/giuliani_trump_drag.jpg
http://www.allreaders.com/pictures/rudy_giuliani_dress.jpg
See? too much eyeliner... :D

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 14:35:02
Morning Bob. :waves southward:

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 14:35:56
Wonder if Steph will drag out the "Get those puppies!" ?

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 14:38:15
Gawd! Those pix just scared the hell out of me!

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:38:56
Quote by wickedpam: Wonder if Steph will drag out the "Get those puppies!" ?
OOH I hope so!!! :pray:

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 14:39:13
Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:40:19
I saw that Chuck Norris endorsed Mike Huckabee this this weekend...

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:58:05
YAY! the perverted researchers stack! Sexomnia! Uh oh...

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 14:59:06
Funny I always got dates when I visited... :P

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:01:47
Glenn beck: "A handful of people who hate America ... are losing their homes in a forest fire" I shit yu not.
We all love America. We all love America. We just disagree on how we should function, what we should do, big government, small government. It doesn't mean you hate America. I think there is a handful of people who hate America. Unfortunately for them, a lot of them are losing their homes in a forest fire today. There are a few people that hate America. But I don't think the Democrats are those. I think there are those posing as Democrats that are like that.


Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:02:52
Quote by wickedpam: Gawd! Those pix just scared the hell out of me!
Mala Ran away... I am sorry Mala!

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:08:28
MAybe Momma is a Chrystal Methodist?

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 15:08:37
Still here, just multi-tasking between blogging, listening and typing out sales incentives.

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 15:10:08
Quote by Raine:

Funny I always got dates when I visited... :P



How much money did you make? :poke:

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 15:10:46
Quote by Raine:

YAY! the perverted researchers stack!



Sexomnia! Uh oh...


I prefer to stay awake through it. You can't really enjoy it if you're sleeping through it.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:12:59
Did anyone see the story Tri posted about Blackwater and the 1099's?

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:14:24
Cheesing a car has different meaning in different areas... and that is all I am gonna say about that.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:16:19
Quote by livingonli:
Quote by Raine: YAY! the perverted researchers stack! Sexomnia! Uh oh...
I prefer to stay awake through it. You can't really enjoy it if you're sleeping through it.
IThey say, the famous *they*... that you wake up feeling great!

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 15:17:09
Quote by Raine:

Quote by livingonli:

Quote by Raine:

YAY! the perverted researchers stack!



Sexomnia! Uh oh...


I prefer to stay awake through it. You can't really enjoy it if you're sleeping through it.
IThey say, the famous *they*... that you wake up feeling great!



Although getting there is half the fun.

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 15:17:09
Quote by livingonli:

Quote by Raine:

YAY! the perverted researchers stack!



Sexomnia! Uh oh...


I prefer to stay awake through it. You can't really enjoy it if you're sleeping through it.


My subconcious disagrees... :P



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:17:40
Sorry, but I have a real issue with HEather mills going after Paul this way. It's the cute beatle for goodness sake!!!

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:18:45
Every time Jim does this accent, I think of *HEAD*!!! HEAD!!!* from the classic film... So I Married An Ax Murderer

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:20:01
Do you think the Osmands will endorse Mitt? Just asking...

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 15:21:26
Quote by Raine:

Do you think the Osmands will endorse Mitt?



Just asking...


That's the celebrity vote to go after. I wonder if Mitt has ever dropped an f-bomb.

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 15:29:41
Anyone going to call in and ask about east coast dates for the tour?

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 15:30:29
I'll just do my usuall whining online

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:30:53
Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 15:33:22
Awww! :wub:

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 15:37:12
Momma should never push the button.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:37:59
The Mercury Diet! ™ brought to you by the SM newscast!

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 15:40:48
Quote by Raine:

The Mercury Diet! ™ brought to you by the SM newscast!


And we know it works. You really, really lose weight.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:42:02
HAs anyone ever gotten the video of mamma on dan?

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 15:42:50
Quote by livingonli:

Quote by Raine:

The Mercury Diet! ™ brought to you by the SM newscast!


And we know it works. You really, really lose weight.




... and you can monitor your own temperature!

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:55:06
But did ORal Roberts say Vagina and Ahnus?

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 15:56:03
Producerchris always keeps out his three organs.

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 15:57:04
So Mrs. Roberts is like Mary Kay Letourneo only with more boys to service her needs.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 15:59:23
Quote by livingonli: So Mrs. Roberts is like Mary Kay Letourneo only with more boys to service her needs.
I dunno.. Mary Kay made the commitmnet... Madam Oral is just a super freak.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 16:02:36
Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 16:03:39
Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 16:03:49
The shuttel too k off a few minutes ago, despite the ice issues that may have delayed the launch... :shudder: the ice melted a few moments before liftoff.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 16:09:53
Thom is going to have a discussion with an Ayn Rand type person about banning smoking in connected houses.



Oh boy...brings back memories of a certain blog discussion on a similar topic.



:spank:

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 16:11:16
Quote by starling310:

Thom is going to have a discussion with an Ayn Rand type person about banning smoking in connected houses.



Oh boy...brings back memories of a certain blog discussion on a similar topic.



:spank:


I think it was that message board thread that went on for 25 pages.

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 16:11:53
I'm watching the Sammy Cam right now.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 16:15:30
Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 16:19:10
Quote by starling310:

Thom is going to have a discussion with an Ayn Rand type person about banning smoking in connected houses.



Oh boy...brings back memories of a certain blog discussion on a similar topic.



:spank:


The Smoking Nazis thread?... nothing like talking to a brick wall... :rolleyes2:

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 16:19:10


He is the gift that keeps on giving. I can't wait for the attack ads from the other candidates.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 16:35:10
Hoo haw... I am gonna go roll an organic tobacco cigarette. Cotton filters as well. Do NOT get me started!

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 16:40:41
That is one yappy little troll I am glad I don't have to coddle anymore.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 16:44:27
Quote by BobR:

The Smoking Nazis thread?... nothing like talking to a brick wall... :rolleyes2:




Yes sir. 'Ats the one.



: spitoon :

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 16:46:28
Quote by Raine:

Hoo haw... I am gonna go roll an organic tobacco cigarette. Cotton filters as well. Do NOT get me started!




Now, is organic tobacco technically "better?"



Is tobacco in it's pure form carcinogenic? Or, is it all the other stuff they put in there?

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 16:56:12
Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:00:13
Quote by starling310:
Quote by Raine: Hoo haw... I am gonna go roll an organic tobacco cigarette. Cotton filters as well. Do NOT get me started!
Now, is organic tobacco technically "better?" Is tobacco in it's pure form carcinogenic? Or, is it all the other stuff they put in there?
I will be honest with you to say that I am not sure... but I know that smoking urine Fiberglass, and ammonia are really bad things... I do not have all those extra things that the big tobacco companies put in my cigs. I do not apologize endorse or make excuses for my habit, but smoking has been around for thousands of years.The lung cancer has become pretty rampant in the last many decades. So I do not know.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:05:08
Quote by Raine:

Quote by starling310:

Quote by Raine:

Hoo haw... I am gonna go roll an organic tobacco cigarette. Cotton filters as well. Do NOT get me started!




Now, is organic tobacco technically "better?"



Is tobacco in it's pure form carcinogenic? Or, is it all the other stuff they put in there?


I will be honest with you to say that I am not sure... but I know that smoking urine Fiberglass, and ammonia are really bad things... I do not have all those extra things that the big tobacco companies put in my cigs.



I do not apologize endorse or make excuses for my habit, but smoking has been around for thousands of years.The lung cancer has become pretty rampant in the last many decades. So I do not know.









Yeah, it just doesn't seem that there have been a lot of cases of American Indians, for example, getting Lung Cancer from smoking pure tobacco that was grown on their land.

I guess it's like anything else. . . growing your own fruits and veggies instead of buying them full of pesticides and what not.



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:08:07
Now I must say I am on the fence about smoking in apartments. I am really on the fence. So this could get scary.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:15:50
Oh my.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:17:26
Yeah, me too.



I rented a townhouse a few years back. In the townhouse next to me was a smoker. The way the building was set up, her living space was below mine. And, she would smoke ALL THE TIME.....and it would come in through our living and bed room windows.



I smoke. But, I couldn't STAND IT!!! It was constant.





Because of that experience, I try to be cognisent of my own smoking habits. I do smoke on my deck on occassion and I live in a condo. I feel slightly bad, because I wonder if it bothers my neighbors. Again, it's occassional; not every 15 minutes throughout the day.

But, I don't do things like walk through the common areas, including the laundry room, like some people choose to do and it pisses me off!



[/rant]

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:20:42
I can say that I don't know what my reaction would be if my neighbor said "Hey could you not smoke outside?"



I'd like to believe I'd say "Sure! No problem." But, if a friend stops by and we are having a beer, I want to be able to step out onto the deck and smoke.

I don't want to smoke in my house, because it lingers. Outside, it does eventually dissipate.



This is a tough one. I couldn't broach the subject last time. Everyone was just too "yelly" n' stuff.



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:21:59
Quote by starling310: Yeah, me too. I rented a townhouse a few years back. In the townhouse next to me was a smoker. The way the building was set up, her living space was below mine. And, she would smoke ALL THE TIME.....and it would come in through our living and bed room windows. I smoke. But, I couldn't STAND IT!!! It was constant. Because of that experience, I try to be cognisent of my own smoking habits. I do smoke on my deck on occassion and I live in a condo. I feel slightly bad, because I wonder if it bothers my neighbors. Again, it's occassional; not every 15 minutes throughout the day. But, I don't do things like walk through the common areas, including the laundry room, like some people choose to do and it pisses me off! [/rant]
I guess I look at it this way, there are rights and their are courtesies. IT is courteous to understand that smoking in an apt will effect your neigbors... it does nto hurt to go outside. I just don't know. And I know all about second hand smoke. I do.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:23:02
See? I don't have the ammonia! But hell no, I will not freeebase smoking.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:23:48
I wonder if Thomm is for legalzing marijuana.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:26:07
Quote by starling310: I can say that I don't know what my reaction would be if my neighbor said "Hey could you not smoke outside?" I'd like to believe I'd say "Sure! No problem." But, if a friend stops by and we are having a beer, I want to be able to step out onto the deck and smoke. I don't want to smoke in my house, because it lingers. Outside, it does eventually dissipate. This is a tough one. I couldn't broach the subject last time. Everyone was just too "yelly" n' stuff.
I am sorry, I was one of those yelly folks. But you see this is a real issue. Smoking outside... that really broaches a freedom issue for me. no one owns to outdoors.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:27:30
He just said he is for the legalization of, and I quote, "all drugs."



So, in short, yes he is.



Agreed. There are definite courtesies; I don't smoke around kids. If I am in a group that's smoking and there are non smokers with us, I try to stand back from them, etc.



That line between a right and a courtesy is the tough call!

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:31:09
Quote by Raine:

Quote by starling310:

I can say that I don't know what my reaction would be if my neighbor said "Hey could you not smoke outside?"



I'd like to believe I'd say "Sure! No problem." But, if a friend stops by and we are having a beer, I want to be able to step out onto the deck and smoke.

I don't want to smoke in my house, because it lingers. Outside, it does eventually dissipate.



This is a tough one. I couldn't broach the subject last time. Everyone was just too "yelly" n' stuff.

I am sorry, I was one of those yelly folks.





But you see this is a real issue. Smoking outside... that really broaches a freedom issue for me. no one owns to outdoors.







Let me clarify, yelly and on topic fine. I believe you were yelly and on topic! Like it would matter to me. You know I you!

Yelly and off topic! No go for me.



Is your thought that it's better for a smoker to go outside?

That's the rub. You are correct; no one owns the outdoors. So, non smokers tend to say "we" are polluting "their" air, which is true. And, "we" say "It's our air too." Also, true.

tricky bid'ness.





Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:37:06
The most interesting thing baout nicotine is that it is not a carcenogenic.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:39:39
I think it is my thought to go outside. I do. I smoke inside only when I am at a smoking establsihment. Yes it is tricky. I am rather skepical of what thomm is saying about shooting up and cooking brownies... Shooting up may tend to make getting aids more likely...

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:40:36
This property rights arguement is shaky. . . it's too circular.

When does my right property end your right to property?

:scratch:

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 17:41:53
Question - If Thom, or others, have an issue about the aresolization of it all how does he feel about perfumes? I have a neighbor who baths in some horrible perfume that gags me when she stands upwind of our house. Is she then breaking a law because I can smell it in the house?

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:45:12
Quote by Raine:

I think it is my thought to go outside.



I do. I smoke inside only when I am at a smoking establsihment.



Yes it is tricky. I am rather skepical of what thomm is saying about shooting up and cooking brownies... Shooting up may tend to make getting aids more likely...









Now Brownies, on the other hand? That's just a good idea!





Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:45:58
Well yes, we are poluting the air... and I do not minmize that, but look around... cars... buildings... I just just think that Thomms argument is sortof a non starter.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:47:03
Mala! Good point. So true.



There is a woman here at work who wears and AWFUL perfume and lots of it. I know when she's in the bathroom as soon as I open the door; from the smell.





Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:47:28
I guess I am having a problem with him saying that smoking being an addiction is bad, but drugsa are ok as long as they don't put out stuff in the air. Doesn't really work for me.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:48:37
Quote by wickedpam: Question - If Thom, or others, have an issue about the aresolization of it all how does he feel about perfumes? I have a neighbor who baths in some horrible perfume that gags me when she stands upwind of our house. Is she then breaking a law because I can smell it in the house?
Great point. So is it what is oput in the air or what is put in a persons body?

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:49:25
I can tell you sometimes I walk thru crowds and certain perfumes make me ill right away.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:51:33
Quote by Raine:

Well yes, we are poluting the air... and I do not minmize that, but look around... cars... buildings...



I just just think that Thomms argument is sortof a non starter.




Right! And, again it's like a Circular Reference arguement. Everyone has the same opinion that it's "my air." So, who is more right? In my opinion, there's no real way to know whose air it is "more."



I do think Thom has a good point about the Tobacco companies and wouldn't it be nice, if we could just puff on pure tobacco, with NO CHEMICALS in it? Mmmm......







Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:52:38
Quote by Raine:

Quote by wickedpam:

Question - If Thom, or others, have an issue about the aresolization of it all how does he feel about perfumes? I have a neighbor who baths in some horrible perfume that gags me when she stands upwind of our house. Is she then breaking a law because I can smell it in the house?


Great point. So is it what is oput in the air or what is put in a persons body?




I think Thom would argue that someone's perfume scent can't kill you second hand.

Not that we know of yet, anyway.

;)

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:54:56
I want to know why the government can't regulate tobacco. Why can't they make it illegal to put chemicals into tobacco? They did it for lead in paint... the did it with asbestos...

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:55:52
Go Organic to quit smoking?



Hey, Raine, how's that workin' out for ya!

:rofl:





Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 17:56:24
Quote by Raine:

I want to know why the government can't regulate tobacco. Why can't they make it illegal to put chemicals into tobacco?



They did it for lead in paint... the did it with asbestos...




:clap:





Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:56:38
Quote by starling310:
Quote by Raine: Well yes, we are poluting the air... and I do not minmize that, but look around... cars... buildings... I just just think that Thomms argument is sortof a non starter.
Right! And, again it's like a Circular Reference arguement. Everyone has the same opinion that it's "my air." So, who is more right? In my opinion, there's no real way to know whose air it is "more." I do think Thom has a good point about the Tobacco companies and wouldn't it be nice, if we could just puff on pure tobacco, with NO CHEMICALS in it? Mmmm......
That is why I smoke what I smoke. Plus, it is a green company. ;)

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 17:56:44
Quote by starling310:

Quote by Raine:

Quote by wickedpam:

Question - If Thom, or others, have an issue about the aresolization of it all how does he feel about perfumes? I have a neighbor who baths in some horrible perfume that gags me when she stands upwind of our house. Is she then breaking a law because I can smell it in the house?


Great point. So is it what is oput in the air or what is put in a persons body?




I think Thom would argue that someone's perfume scent can't kill you second hand.

Not that we know of yet, anyway.

;)




There are people who have really bad reactions to certain scents, some could be life threatening. So I think that it can be put on a level close to that of second hand smoke.



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 17:57:57
Quote by starling310:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by wickedpam: Question - If Thom, or others, have an issue about the aresolization of it all how does he feel about perfumes? I have a neighbor who baths in some horrible perfume that gags me when she stands upwind of our house. Is she then breaking a law because I can smell it in the house?
Great point. So is it what is oput in the air or what is put in a persons body?
I think Thom would argue that someone's perfume scent can't kill you second hand. Not that we know of yet, anyway. ;)
When those certain scents hit me, my throat starts to close up. Not unlike airborn food allergies. And we know what they can do...

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:00:34
Quote by starling310: Go Organic to quit smoking? Hey, Raine, how's that workin' out for ya! :rofl:
It isn't, right now I am not trying... but I know I smoke way the hell less than when I smoked marbies. Or whatever I used to smoke. btw... smartass...

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:01:15
Quote by Raine:

I want to know why the government can't regulate tobacco. Why can't they make it illegal to put chemicals into tobacco?



They did it for lead in paint... the did it with asbestos...






We do it with cars!



I guess the only good analogy to smoking I can come up with is driving, and fumes from driving.

Let's say you live in NYC....there is no "need" to drive, just as there is no "need" to smoke. So, you walk everywhere! You'll sometimes walk 12 blocks to get a sandwich. Good job, by the way, that's a long haul. Now, should you "have " to breathe in fumes from cars? They don't "need" to be driving. But, they are driving and it affects you; the walker. So, government steps in and says D'Aaaalright! the fumes coming out of the tail pipes can't be really, really bad!



Yes, why can't they do that for the ciggies?



Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:02:45
Wow! I never had that experience with perfumes. Well, there you go!



I think what's called for is regulation, not rights infrigement. It's a fine line, but there IS a difference in the two.



Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:04:28
Raine -



What's the brand? Soyota?



Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:05:18
Oh. Never mind. Soyota is intended for spiritual practice.



DOH!



:rofl:



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:05:46
Quote by starling310:
Quote by Raine: I want to know why the government can't regulate tobacco. Why can't they make it illegal to put chemicals into tobacco? They did it for lead in paint... the did it with asbestos...
We do it with cars! I guess the only good analogy to smoking I can come up with is driving, and fumes from driving. Let's say you live in NYC....there is no "need" to drive, just as there is no "need" to smoke. So, you walk everywhere! You'll sometimes walk 12 blocks to get a sandwich. Good job, by the way, that's a long haul. Now, should you "have " to breathe in fumes from cars? They don't "need" to be driving. But, they are driving and it affects you; the walker. So, government steps in and says D'Aaaalright! the fumes coming out of the tail pipes can't be really, really bad! Yes, why can't they do that for the ciggies?
:cry: I am sorry! Sometimes I feel liek we smokers have been made t be the villians of society. And then I see the coal plants... I dunno... I just don't know.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:08:20
Yup...we are very much the villians.



I get a lot of crap because I don't eat meat for the environmental and ethical reasons but "you still smoke?" Well, yes. Yes, I do. I never know how to respond to THAT comment. Sheesh.



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:10:16
I smoke American Spirit. The loose tobacco, now... WAY less expensive. And I thought Soyota was a bio diesel!

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:12:40
Quote by starling310: Yup...we are very much the villians. I get a lot of crap because I don't eat meat for the environmental and ethical reasons but "you still smoke?" Well, yes. Yes, I do. I never know how to respond to THAT comment. Sheesh.
I say it is at least something. Fuck sometimes it seams like those of us that do a little something are suddenly hypocrites becuase we aren't doing everything. Well hell. if only everyone did a little something... Then half of our problems would go away. THEN and only then can we go to work to tackle the other half. *sigh*

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 18:12:42
I saw on the other blog that Christopher Hitchens will be on Talk of The Nation at 3. You should read Mondo's comments and mgm's response.

Comment by TriSec on 10/23/2007 18:13:39
Passing through....



:ph34r:



To summarize:



I used to smoke big smelly see-gars. I'd never touch a cig. too many yucky carcinogens interfering with my nicotine.



Perfume. Some of the stuff being sold as "perfume" really is "toilet water", if you get my meaning.



It was just Athen-o-ween. There is video that if I could get my hands on would fetch a pretty price on the internets. Let's just say that a certain presidential cousin makes a better woman than former big-city mayors.



And one of my favorite signs reads as follows: "If I see you smoking, I will assume you are on fire and will act accordingly"



Your right to public smoking ends at my lungs, as far as I am concerned.



Answer me honestly, is the world your ashtray, or do you pick up after yourself, those that do indulge? That is my biggest pet peeve concerning smokers.



Kim out! :peace:







Comment by TriSec on 10/23/2007 18:15:51
oh, and I've got a 'pod full of Prince today!



:banana: <-- (hey Bob, is there a purple one of these out there?)





Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:17:50
: raises hand :



Ooh! Ooh! Tri! I pick up my butts!!!

The world is NOT my ashtray!



: polishes apple : : places on Tri's bloggie desk :





Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:19:04
Quote by Raine:

Quote by starling310:

Yup...we are very much the villians.



I get a lot of crap because I don't eat meat for the environmental and ethical reasons but "you still smoke?" Well, yes. Yes, I do. I never know how to respond to THAT comment. Sheesh.

I say it is at least something.

Fuck sometimes it seams like those of us that do a little something are suddenly hypocrites becuase we aren't doing everything.



Well hell. if only everyone did a little something...



Then half of our problems would go away. THEN and only then can we go to work to tackle the other half.



*sigh*




I know! I always want to be bitchy and ask "What's the last thing you gave up to be a more socially responsible citizen?" But, then I sound preachy.



I've just started saying "Yeah, I smoke and *gasp* Al Gore lives in a house!"





Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:19:52
Tri, I pick up. The world is not my ashtray. And if I may add, not to endorse cigarettes, Camels have filters that are cotton, 100% biodegradable. BTW... I hope you can get the video!!!

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:21:52
omg... Tri you just reminded me... I have to download my pics fromthe Little Five pooints halloween parade... I have the perfect picture for you1

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:22:40
Howabout people who bring their crying babies into work?And, everyone gathers and coos and goo goos at them for an hour?



Are they infringing on my right to work in PEACE and QUIET!?!?



Starling regrets that this may sound like she hates babies. And, she does not.



Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 18:23:13
Man, I thought Pete Seeger was dead

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:23:57
I met pete seeger on the Clearwater when I was a kid. IT was a sloop on the hudson river to teach ecology to us yunguns.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:24:35
Mala!









Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 18:24:50
Quote by starling310:

Howabout people who bring their crying babies into work?And, everyone gathers and coos and goo goos at them for an hour?



Are they infringing on my right to work in PEACE and QUIET!?!?



Starling regrets that this may sound like she hates babies. And, she does not.





Don't even get me started on people are their kids

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 18:25:46
Quote by starling310:

Mala!













Well I did! :p

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:26:15
Quote by starling310: Howabout people who bring their crying babies into work?And, everyone gathers and coos and goo goos at them for an hour? Are they infringing on my right to work in PEACE and QUIET!?!? Starling regrets that this may sound like she hates babies. And, she does not.
Nor does Raine... but yes, I do understand.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:27:57
Umm...OK. Pete Seeger is making my cry.





Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:32:34
Re: Kids



I watched Steve Carrell on Leno last night. It was a rerun, but new to me.

He said a Pet Peeve is when people come on and start gushing about how beautiful and brilliant their kids are.

Jay : "So how are the kids?"

Carell: "Eh. They're alright. Ya know? They'll get by. They're good looking enough. Ya know? They won't freak anybody out or anything."



:rofl:



Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 18:35:01
Hey if Tri can get away with a "passing through", so can I... :smug:



Re, the discussion on the "other board": I see it as a microcosm of political discourse in our country right now. The loud obnoxious self-righteous windbags dominate the conversation, the people with something interesting to say don't feel like getting yelled at so they keep their distance, and the windbags declare victory.



As to apartments, I feel it is up to the property owner to dictate whether smoking is allowed, not the government. The lease should state clearly whether smoking is allowed or not, so there should be no surprises.



Smoking outside is a no-brainer. The amount of pollutants released into the air is negligible and quickly dissipated. Not liking the smell is no reason to restrict it, or we better start regulating BO (and too much perfume). Courtesy does go a long way however...



I still smoke the occasional cigar, but they aren't "smelly" - I think they smell better than cigarettes. It amazes me when a bar allows cigarette smoking but not cigars. Are they afraid it will make the air smell better?











Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:35:04
Quote by wickedpam:

Quote by starling310:

Mala!













Well I did! :p




He is, in fact, alive. Most likely, sitting in hia bathrobe at a metal, avacado green kitchen table, talking on a wall mounted phone.



I kid. That was a nice interview.



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:35:12
I love pete seeger. For many reasons, but mostly becuase he is a son of the Hudson Valley. I sorta Miss my valley sometimes. I really do. :cry:

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 18:37:47
Quote by Raine:

Quote by starling310:

Yup...we are very much the villians.



I get a lot of crap because I don't eat meat for the environmental and ethical reasons but "you still smoke?" Well, yes. Yes, I do. I never know how to respond to THAT comment. Sheesh.

I say it is at least something.

Fuck sometimes it seams like those of us that do a little something are suddenly hypocrites becuase we aren't doing everything.



Well hell. if only everyone did a little something...



Then half of our problems would go away. THEN and only then can we go to work to tackle the other half.



*sigh*




Amen! :clap:

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:37:59
Quote by starling310:
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by starling310: Mala!
Well I did! :p
He is, in fact, alive. Most likely, sitting in hia bathrobe at a metal, avacado green kitchen table, talking on a wall mounted phone. I kid. That was a nice interview.
Sounds like a wonderful kitchen!

Comment by TriSec on 10/23/2007 18:38:23
Oh, poop. I broke the blog, didn't I?



:kickcan:





Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:39:40
I did see it tri. I am -- or was-- at the nrth end of that pic! Sigh... feeling a little homesick today!

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:40:23
Quote by TriSec: Oh, poop. I broke the blog, didn't I? :kickcan:
lil bit. wanna remove it and give the link?

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 18:41:40
Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:42:05
Ew B.O. Good one Bobber!





Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:42:36
Quote by BobR:

Stark Apologizes



Christ...






AAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!





Comment by TriSec on 10/23/2007 18:43:19
Sage words of wisdom from Mr. Nelson, circa 1987:



I guess U know me well, I don't like winter

I seem 2 get a kick out of doing U cold, no

Oh, what the hell, U always surrender, baby

What's this strange relationship that we hold on 2?



Honey, I just can't stand 2 see U happy

More than that, I hate 2 see U sad, no no

Honey, if U left me I just might do something rash, yeah

What's this strange relationship ..ship ..ship ..ship?



Ooh, U took my love, U took my body, baby

Took all the self-respect I ever had

Took me 4 a ride yo, baby, I'm sorry

More U love me, sugar, the more it makes me mad



Honey, I just can't stand, I can't stand 2 see U happy

More than that, I hate 2 see U sad, ah no

Honey, if U left me I just might do something rash, yeah

What's this strange relationship ..ship ..ship ..ship?









I'm sure that's appropriate for some kind of unholy GOP/Evangelical alliance, no?





Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:43:42
Quote by BobR: Stark Apologizes Christ...
What the hell is wrong with these people! Fuckity fuck fuck. Randi will be apoplectic today.

Comment by TriSec on 10/23/2007 18:45:33
Comment by TriSec on 10/23/2007 18:46:54
I hope that with this apology, I will become as insignificant as I should be....




Yes, you have indeed, Mr. Stark.



F*ckers.



Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 18:47:50
Quote by Raine:

Quote by BobR:

Stark Apologizes



Christ...
What the hell is wrong with these people!



Fuckity fuck fuck.



Randi will be apoplectic today.



My god, the Republicans will say all kinds of shit and not apologize. The Democratic Party leadership really has to grow a pair.



And on that note, off to get my flu shot at work.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:47:52
Quote by TriSec:

Trying again...



TriSec in the left-hand seat over the Hudson





: eric cartman : Sweeeet.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:49:55
God. It just really makes me wonder. Do they have photos of EVERYBODY in compromising positions with Dolphins or something.



I have said things I've been sorry for and apologize for them.

But, when I know I am right, F*ck it! Unless you've got some nasty skeleton of mine by the balls, I am saying it. No apologies ya bastids!



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:50:07
Quote by TriSec: Trying again... TriSec in the left-hand seat over the Hudson
Mucho mejor mi amigo!

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 18:51:05
And, there are really no skeletons bad enough to lay down about this Illegal, immoral occupation any longer.

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 18:55:53
For Mr. Tri: ---> :prince:





Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 18:57:13
I give up. Stark apologizes... WHY? WHY? has any one of these right wingers EVER apologized for anything? EVER? Oh yeah... diaper boy vitter did. he got a standing ovation... fucking hypocrits on the right and goddamn pussy cowards on the left... no wait... my pussy has more of a spine than any democrat these days. F*ckers.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:04:54
Quote by BobR: For Mr. Tri: ---> :prince:
The purple one!!!

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:06:18
:prince: :prince: :prince: :prince: :prince: :prince: :prince: :prince: :prince: :prince: :prince: :prince:

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 19:06:31
Quote by TriSec:

I hope that with this apology, I will become as insignificant as I should be....




Yes, you have indeed, Mr. Stark.



F*ckers.







Who frickin' strived to be insignificant?! Seriously!



What's the point in taking a stand if you just let loud mouths bully you into taking it back?

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:08:23
GEez, 750 homes lost. :( this is wretched. This is what global warming looks like.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:09:10
UHM!!! HELLO!!!!!!! What did I talk about i yesterdays blog??/ Blackwater and the fires in SoCal.

Comment by TriSec on 10/23/2007 19:10:54
Well, now I can look for the purple banana until they put me in the truck!



:wub:

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:13:57
I am telling you... Blackwater is behind the fires in San Diego. Read my story from yesterday.

Comment by TriSec on 10/23/2007 19:15:21
Quote by Raine:

GEez, 750 homes lost. :(



this is wretched. This is what global warming looks like.




Speaking of which, has anyone heard from Zowie elsewhere on the internets?



This is pretty close to home now...



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:19:13
You know as far as Pete stark. HE apologized AFTER the repukes FAILED. so he is apologizing to failures. I had faith in him, but I am so glad I didn't spend enough time in him to care enough noew that we are breaking up.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:23:10
Quote by TriSec:
Quote by Raine: GEez, 750 homes lost. :( this is wretched. This is what global warming looks like.
Speaking of which, has anyone heard from Zowie elsewhere on the internets? This is pretty close to home now...
I think he is on the east coast. Those that are in the know, please report here. Is his home alright?

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:32:51
*sigh* just because I can still do that legally.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 19:39:36


Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:52:13
I know he does not post too oft here... but I love Grumpymann.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 19:53:37
Quote by starling310:
if I may assume that was for me... I accept it wholeheartedly, and back. And mala and Liv, I do not think I have hugged you guys lately either... :hug:

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 20:00:53
Oh...yes, sorry. that was, indeed, for you!



Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 20:09:14
Anyone around? ANYONE?!!? even those that don't post?

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 20:10:19
Present.



You looking for someone specific?



Comment by TriSec on 10/23/2007 20:11:44
:ph34r:



I reread your post from yesterday, Raine. There's a comment added to the Blackwater story that rather leaps out at me now...





By abe on 10/21/2007 at 6:51 p.m.



I wonder just how today's fires in that part of the county will play on the upcoming recall elecions and those dreaded absentee ballots, with all those people being, unfortunately, evacuated.




Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 20:32:57
Quote by starling310: Present. You looking for someone specific?
Could use a little help in a few threads... mainly the 2 year old swiftbaot thread adn the newest torture thread.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 20:33:57
Quote by TriSec: :ph34r: I reread your post from yesterday, Raine. There's a comment added to the Blackwater story that rather leaps out at me now...
By abe on 10/21/2007 at 6:51 p.m. I wonder just how today's fires in that part of the county will play on the upcoming recall elecions and those dreaded absentee ballots, with all those people being, unfortunately, evacuated.
That was why I said the POST OFFICE burned down.

Comment by starling310 on 10/23/2007 20:34:50
Quote by Raine:

Quote by starling310:

Present.



You looking for someone specific?



Could use a little help in a few threads... mainly the 2 year old swiftbaot thread adn the newest torture thread.




Help?

Like this kind of help ----->

Comment by wickedpam on 10/23/2007 20:36:55
Quote by Raine:

Quote by starling310:

if I may assume that was for me... I accept it wholeheartedly, and back.



And mala and Liv, I do not think I have hugged you guys lately either... :hug:





:hug:'s all around!



Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 20:56:21
I should send the Z man a PM. He spent the last two Octobers in New York. I know he was talking about the October 27th protest but for the LA side so I don't know if he came east this year. We didn't have our Laura bloggers meet-up this year.

Comment by BobR on 10/23/2007 21:00:31
Quote by livingonli:

I should send the Z man a PM. He spent the last two Octobers in New York. I know he was talking about the October 27th protest but for the LA side so I don't know if he came east this year. We didn't have our Laura bloggers meet-up this year.


Last I heard from him (a few days ago), he is in NYC, but doesn't have much in the way of internet access.

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 21:03:06
Quote by BobR:

Quote by livingonli:

I should send the Z man a PM. He spent the last two Octobers in New York. I know he was talking about the October 27th protest but for the LA side so I don't know if he came east this year. We didn't have our Laura bloggers meet-up this year.


Last I heard from him (a few days ago), he is in NYC, but doesn't have much in the way of internet access.


Then he might be going to the NYC protest on Saturday. I tried to find out if nightbird was going but I haven't heard further on that.

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 21:23:12
Raine, the Rangers are on Versus tonight so you should be able to see the game.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 23:03:38
ooh.. I will look for them. I am not sure if I get that on comcast, liv.

Comment by Raine on 10/23/2007 23:04:49
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by Raine:
Quote by starling310:
if I may assume that was for me... I accept it wholeheartedly, and back. And mala and Liv, I do not think I have hugged you guys lately either... :hug:
:hug:'s all around!
totally!

Comment by livingonli on 10/23/2007 23:07:24
Quote by Raine:

ooh.. I will look for them. I am not sure if I get that on comcast, liv.


You should since Comcast owns the channel.



I just saw them run a promo for a new sports show with Dennis Miller. :puke:



Didn't anyone learn from Monday Night Football?

Comment by MMB on 10/24/2007 01:26:19
I love the purple dancing

Comment by Mondobubba on 10/24/2007 01:37:42
Hey we got more comments here than at the other blog.

Comment by livingonli on 10/24/2007 02:05:14
Rangers lost again.

Comment by Raine on 10/24/2007 04:14:50
Quote by Mondobubba: Hey we got more comments here than at the other blog.
Wow. this is my new fave emoticon!

Comment by Raine on 10/24/2007 04:17:21
And I know she prolly won't see this.. but Starling gets five and five 's :martini: :martini: :martini: :star: :star: :star: She knows why!

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