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Ask a Vet
Author: TriSec
Date: 08/11/2009 10:26:27
Good Morning.
Today is our 2,337th day in Iraq.
We'll start this morning as we always do, with the latest casualty figures from Iraq and Afghanistan, courtesy of antiwar.com:
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 4330
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 4191
Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03): 3869
Since Handover (6/29/04): 3471
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09): 102
Other Coalition Troops - Iraq: 318
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 773
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 523
Contractor Employee Deaths - Iraq: 1,395
Journalists - Iraq: 139
Academics Killed - Iraq: 423
We find this morning's cost of war passing through:
$ 896, 787, 100, 000 .00
This morning, we'll veer away from Iraq and take a look at Afghanistan. Always the 'forgotten front' on the war on terror, there's a couple of interesting news items out of there today. For starters, it appears that no troops will be coming home anytime soon. One advisor has put it all on the table; he's expecting two more tough years, then Afghanistan takes over it's own security....or we 'lose and go home'.
But there's at least one soldier that won't be going. We've reported in this space about Specialist Victor Agosto, who has refused to deploy to Afghanistan for what he calls an "illegal war". Alas, military justice has done it's thing, and he's headed for Leavenworth.
Lastly this morning, we will take a look into Iraq, again, for a story we've blogged about before. Soldiers face enough hazards every day; their shower shouldn't be one of them. It's one death among many, but KBR gets off scott-free in the electrocution death of SSgt. Ryan Maseth. According to the story, investigators could not find "sufficient evidence to prove or disprove" any wrongdoing.
Support the troops, indeed.
Today is our 2,337th day in Iraq.
We'll start this morning as we always do, with the latest casualty figures from Iraq and Afghanistan, courtesy of antiwar.com:
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 4330
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 4191
Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03): 3869
Since Handover (6/29/04): 3471
Since Obama Inauguration (1/20/09): 102
Other Coalition Troops - Iraq: 318
US Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 773
Other Military Deaths - Afghanistan: 523
Contractor Employee Deaths - Iraq: 1,395
Journalists - Iraq: 139
Academics Killed - Iraq: 423
We find this morning's cost of war passing through:
This morning, we'll veer away from Iraq and take a look at Afghanistan. Always the 'forgotten front' on the war on terror, there's a couple of interesting news items out of there today. For starters, it appears that no troops will be coming home anytime soon. One advisor has put it all on the table; he's expecting two more tough years, then Afghanistan takes over it's own security....or we 'lose and go home'.
WASHINGTON - An incoming adviser to the top U.S. general in Afghanistan predicted Thursday that the United States will see about two more years of heavy fighting and then either hand off to a much improved Afghan fighting force or "lose and go home."
David Kilcullen, a counterinsurgency expert who will assume a role as a senior adviser to Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has been highly critical of the war's management to date. He outlined a "best-case scenario" for a decade of further U.S. and NATO involvement in Afghanistan during an appearance at the U.S. Institute of Peace.
Under that timeline, the allied forces would turn the corner in those two years, followed by about three years of transition to a newly capable Afghan force and about five years of "overwatch."
"We'll fight for two years and then a successful transition, or we'll fight for two years and we'll lose and go home," Kilcullen said.
"I think we need to persist," he said, but with "some pretty significant limits on how much we're prepared to spend, how many troops we're prepared to send, how long we can do this for."
Kilcullen was speaking for himself, and it is not clear that McChrystal shares his dark assessment. McChrystal is assembling what aides describe as a blunt summing up of a war his predecessor called a stalemate. That review is due within weeks and may lead to a request for additional U.S. forces beyond those President Barack Obama has already sent to Afghanistan this year.
The report is expected recommend changes in the way the United States and NATO organize and manage the war. Ahead of those recommendations, the Pentagon set up a new command center, an ultra-secure war room where a people from a mix of services and disciplines sit together. The command post is supposed to quickly process information for McChrystal and bulldoze some of the pentagon's legendary bureaucracy.
Separately, the Obama administration is developing new measures of success in Afghanistan, something top military leaders promised Congress months ago. Some of the yardsticks would apply to the Afghan government, some to its armed forces and police and some to the United States.
Obama announced a retailored war strategy in March, with a streamlined focus on ensuring that Afghanistan cannot be used as a harbor for al-Qaida. He has committed 21,000 additional U.S. forces for Afghanistan this year, roughly doubling the U.S. footprint to 68,000 in a year.
But there's at least one soldier that won't be going. We've reported in this space about Specialist Victor Agosto, who has refused to deploy to Afghanistan for what he calls an "illegal war". Alas, military justice has done it's thing, and he's headed for Leavenworth.
FORT HOOD, Texas - A Fort Hood soldier was sentenced yesterday to a month in jail for refusing to deploy to Afghanistan because he says the war violates international law.
Specialist Victor Agosto, 24, of Miami, pleaded guilty to disobeying lawful orders and was sentenced at the central Texas Army post. The judge also reduced his rank to the Army’s lowest level, a private, which also was part of the maximum penalty he faced in his plea agreement with the military.
Also, Agosto cannot be discharged at a level lower than other-than-honorable conditions, an administrative discharge. A discharge was not mentioned in the hearing, but Agosto is expected to be released from the Army after completing his jail term.
Before he was sentenced, Agosto told the judge he should not be jailed because he posed no threat to anyone.
He said he had remained on post and went to work every day since refusing to deploy after learning a few months ago the Army was keeping him beyond his enlistment date.
He said he did not apply for conscientious objector status because that requires opposition to all wars, and he does not believe that all war is wrong.
“I really had no Army way of being consistent with my conscience,’’ Agosto said.
Agosto said he began to oppose the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan after he served a 13-month tour in Iraq.
Lastly this morning, we will take a look into Iraq, again, for a story we've blogged about before. Soldiers face enough hazards every day; their shower shouldn't be one of them. It's one death among many, but KBR gets off scott-free in the electrocution death of SSgt. Ryan Maseth. According to the story, investigators could not find "sufficient evidence to prove or disprove" any wrongdoing.
WASHINGTON - No criminal charges will be filed against military contractor KBR Inc. in connection with the electrocution of a Green Beret soldier who died while showering in his barracks in Iraq, the Defense Department said yesterday.
Investigators said there was “insufficient evidence to prove or disprove’’ that anyone was criminally culpable in the January 2008 death of Staff Sergeant Ryan Maseth, 24, of Pittsburgh. The uproar over his death triggered a review of 17 other electrocution deaths in Iraq and widespread inspections.
Maseth’s death was at first ruled an accident. But later, an Army investigator called the death a “negligent homicide,’’ caused by Houston-based KBR and two of its supervisors, and said it had failed to ensure that qualified electricians and plumbers worked on the building where Maseth died, according to an internal document obtained by the Associated Press.
Yesterday, the Defense Department said that while both contractors and government employees “breached their respective duties of care,’’ the US Army Criminal Investigation Command determined that none of the breaches alone were “the proximate cause of his death.’’ Army criminal investigators also concurred that the manner of death was accidental.
Maseth’s mother, Cheryl Harris, said the findings were heartbreaking and disappointing.
“According to the CID, there were so many failures on KBR’s part that they couldn’t assign all of the blame to any one person and therefore told us they were not going to file charges, which tells me that the CID doesn’t know or is ignorant [of] the evidence I do know exists,’’ said Harris, who met with Army criminal investigators yesterday afternoon.
Last week, the Defense Department’s inspector general said that Maseth died when he came in contact with an energized metal shower and hose caused by the failure of an ungrounded water pump located on the roof of the building installed by KBR. The inspector general said KBR did not ground equipment during installation or report improperly grounded equipment during maintenance, nor did it have standard operating procedures for inspections.
Support the troops, indeed.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
TriSec on 08/11/2009 10:30:06
TriSec on 08/11/2009 10:30:06
Bonus clicky:
The president is in NH today. I'll be heading out in just a few minutes to join my brother and his union buddies to put on a show of support to counter the anticipated wingnuttia that will be present.
I hope there won't be violence or arrests, but you never know.
I'll be posting updates on both Facebook and Twitter; see you out there!
The president is in NH today. I'll be heading out in just a few minutes to join my brother and his union buddies to put on a show of support to counter the anticipated wingnuttia that will be present.
I hope there won't be violence or arrests, but you never know.
I'll be posting updates on both Facebook and Twitter; see you out there!
Comment by 
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 12:34:32
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 12:34:32
Morning 
Stay safe Tri!
Stay safe Tri!
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 08/11/2009 12:50:13
trojanrabbit on 08/11/2009 12:50:13
Morning all.
Finally starting vacation, sitting outside waiting for Mama to come on.
Finally starting vacation, sitting outside waiting for Mama to come on.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 13:03:49
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 13:03:49
Have fun TJ 
Comment by 
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 13:10:38
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 13:10:38
Mornin' peeps.. 
My lower arms are all achy and I have no idea why. haven't really done anything strenuous in a while..
My lower arms are all achy and I have no idea why. haven't really done anything strenuous in a while..
Comment by trojanrabbit on 08/11/2009 13:11:43
trojanrabbit on 08/11/2009 13:11:43
We don't get the first hour of SMS on the radio here, so I feed my AM transmitter in the computer room with the KTLK stream so I can listen outside without having to deal with the crappy laptop speakers. AM1150 is really AM1580 around this condo.
The radio itself is about as old as Mama is...
The radio itself is about as old as Mama is...
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 13:43:29
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 13:43:29
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 13:44:17
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 13:44:17
Is the Span covering the whole town hall? when's it start I wanted to atleast listen to it
Comment by 
Raine on 08/11/2009 14:08:24
Good Morning.
KBR...
Raine on 08/11/2009 14:08:24
Good Morning. KBR...
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 14:09:20
Audio only here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/
Raine on 08/11/2009 14:09:20
Quote by wickedpam:
Is the Span covering the whole town hall? when's it start I wanted to atleast listen to it
Audio only here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 14:11:32
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 14:11:32
danke
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 14:12:32
Raine on 08/11/2009 14:12:32
Hillary was really kinda not cool with that comment.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 14:15:29
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 14:15:29
She definatly could have handled it better
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 14:17:43
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 14:17:43
Ohhhh my..
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 14:35:42
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 14:35:42
here's a naive question - who's 4chan?
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 14:43:21
It is a humid one today...
Raine on 08/11/2009 14:43:21
It is a humid one today...
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 14:43:21
It's an image-board website, loosely based on 2chan (aka Futaba in Japan). Chances are you know the deeds of the people there well but don't know the site itself.
Wiki - 4chan
and more accurately... Encyclopedia Dramatica entry on 4chan
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 14:43:21
Quote by wickedpam:
here's a naive question - who's 4chan?
It's an image-board website, loosely based on 2chan (aka Futaba in Japan). Chances are you know the deeds of the people there well but don't know the site itself.
Wiki - 4chan
and more accurately... Encyclopedia Dramatica entry on 4chan
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 15:07:46
ah
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 15:07:46
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by wickedpam:
here's a naive question - who's 4chan?
It's an image-board website, loosely based on 2chan (aka Futaba in Japan). Chances are you know the deeds of the people there well but don't know the site itself.
Wiki - 4chan
and more accurately... Encyclopedia Dramatica entry on 4chan
ah
Comment by trojanrabbit on 08/11/2009 15:11:12
Yes, definitely. H-H-H.
trojanrabbit on 08/11/2009 15:11:12
Quote by Raine:
Yes, definitely. H-H-H.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 15:14:22
Raine on 08/11/2009 15:14:22
What? A Republican Says Obama won't kill gramma or baby on a death panel.
I Am off to write a thank you letter to my senator.
I Am off to write a thank you letter to my senator.
Comment by 
BobR on 08/11/2009 15:16:22
common sense - what a concept. I'll give him kudos for standing up to the Queen of the Republican party.
BobR on 08/11/2009 15:16:22
Quote by Raine:
What? A Republican Says Obama won't kill gramma or baby on a death panel.
I Am off to write a thank you letter to my senator.
common sense - what a concept. I'll give him kudos for standing up to the Queen of the Republican party.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 15:20:11
Raine on 08/11/2009 15:20:11
Hank Johnsons health care forum was last nite.
Maybe everyone should try it like that.
Civil, well-mannered, asking smart questions – that may not sound like one of these town hall meetings on health care reform.
But the nearly 2,000 people who gathered Monday night at George Perimeter College in Clarkston offered a lesson to the rest of the nation on how civil discourse doesn’t have to spiral into civil disobedience. [...]
Rules were announced: no signs, no derogatory language, and no calling out as each speaker took their two minutes to have their say.
Maybe everyone should try it like that.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 15:49:41
Raine on 08/11/2009 15:49:41
Man with gun...reporting now on MSNBC. The guy is on private property, a nearby church, and the gun is registered so the police are letting him stay.
Reporter said he will be removed before the President arrives.
Reporter said he will be removed before the President arrives.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 15:59:58
Raine on 08/11/2009 15:59:58
Bite me wingers..... Don't tell me Dems spend more than you.
Comment by 
livingonli on 08/11/2009 16:01:19
livingonli on 08/11/2009 16:01:19
A belated good day to everyone. 
I just did not want to get out of bed this morning but I'm here. Hopefully I may get my car back today.
I just did not want to get out of bed this morning but I'm here. Hopefully I may get my car back today.
Comment by livingonli on 08/11/2009 16:28:06
livingonli on 08/11/2009 16:28:06
Everyone went to lunch and I haven't even had breakfast yet.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 08/11/2009 16:29:20
trojanrabbit on 08/11/2009 16:29:20
Good afternoon, liv.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 16:30:25
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 16:30:25
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 16:34:56
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 16:34:56
oohhh looks like C-Span gonna cover the Pres' town hall at 1pm :D
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 16:37:23
Raine on 08/11/2009 16:37:23
keerist. This shit HAS to stop.
Rep. Scott’s office vandalized with four-foot swastika. (after a Glenn beck Attack on TV)
Rep. Scott’s office vandalized with four-foot swastika. (after a Glenn beck Attack on TV)
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 16:37:58
linkity?
Raine on 08/11/2009 16:37:58
Quote by wickedpam:
oohhh looks like C-Span gonna cover the Pres' town hall at 1pm :D
linkity?
Comment by 
starling310 on 08/11/2009 16:43:28
starling310 on 08/11/2009 16:43:28
I am so much in agreement with Thom right now.
God, I love that man.
God, I love that man.
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 16:44:25
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 16:44:25
After listening to Rush Limbaugh, batshit insane woman "interviewed" by Fox News fears rationing of toilet paper.
Obviously it's because of all the shit coming out of her and Rush's mouths.
Obviously it's because of all the shit coming out of her and Rush's mouths.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 16:47:57
We are busy moving a couch right now and am missing him!
Raine on 08/11/2009 16:47:57
Quote by starling310:
I am so much in agreement with Thom right now.
God, I love that man.
We are busy moving a couch right now and am missing him!
Comment by starling310 on 08/11/2009 16:52:20
He just makes so much SENSE!
starling310 on 08/11/2009 16:52:20
Quote by Raine:Quote by starling310:
I am so much in agreement with Thom right now.
God, I love that man.
He just makes so much SENSE!
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 16:55:45
They don't have specific link yet just a little note on the front page with a camera emoticon-thingy
Cspan
looks like its going to be on C-Span 1
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 16:55:45
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
oohhh looks like C-Span gonna cover the Pres' town hall at 1pm :D
linkity?
They don't have specific link yet just a little note on the front page with a camera emoticon-thingy
Cspan
looks like its going to be on C-Span 1
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:04:08
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:04:08
just starting
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:07:04
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:07:04
and the crowd goes nuts! 
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 17:09:58
Raine on 08/11/2009 17:09:58
Quote by wickedpam:
and the crowd goes nuts!
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 17:12:54
Raine on 08/11/2009 17:12:54
1/3 of the recovery act act went to TAX CUTS!
(Barry is a failure say the freepers)
1/3 went to emergency relief --- for example unemployment benefits
(Barry is a socialist say the freepers)
1/3 is for shovel ready jobs -- nurses, roadwork --- and is funneled to LOCAL business
( Barry is a NAZI socialist FAILURE say the freepers)
(Barry is a failure say the freepers)
1/3 went to emergency relief --- for example unemployment benefits
(Barry is a socialist say the freepers)
1/3 is for shovel ready jobs -- nurses, roadwork --- and is funneled to LOCAL business
( Barry is a NAZI socialist FAILURE say the freepers)
Comment by starling310 on 08/11/2009 17:13:34
starling310 on 08/11/2009 17:13:34
YAY! I just added the RSS feed for 4F to my nifty new smart phone. 
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 17:15:57
Raine on 08/11/2009 17:15:57
Thank you Mr President!!!! 
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 17:16:32
Shweet!
What phone? I am getting a new on in October...
Raine on 08/11/2009 17:16:32
Quote by starling310:
YAY! I just added the RSS feed for 4F to my nifty new smart phone.
What phone? I am getting a new on in October...
Comment by starling310 on 08/11/2009 17:20:55
Nokia E71! So far, it's fabu. . .
starling310 on 08/11/2009 17:20:55
Quote by Raine:Shweet!Quote by starling310:
YAY! I just added the RSS feed for 4F to my nifty new smart phone.
What phone? I am getting a new on in October...
Nokia E71! So far, it's fabu. . .
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:22:12
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:22:12
He is making a laughing stock of these deathers and lobbyist shills!
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:37:10
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:37:10
think that answer is a little over the little girls head 
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 17:37:30
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 17:37:30
Ugh.. I've been stuck brain farting on this one ad listing i've gotta write all damn day.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 17:51:16
Possibly.
This is still amazing stuff.
Raine on 08/11/2009 17:51:16
Quote by wickedpam:
think that answer is a little over the little girls head
This is still amazing stuff.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 17:51:44
Raine on 08/11/2009 17:51:44
Nice! a teacher from the actual HS itself!
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 17:52:46
Raine on 08/11/2009 17:52:46
GREAT question! What would good access to mental health care be on our society?
(my answer: we wouldn't have birthers and teabaggers, but hey that is just my opinion.)
(my answer: we wouldn't have birthers and teabaggers, but hey that is just my opinion.)
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 17:54:25
Raine on 08/11/2009 17:54:25
Debt question just asked.
Pres: I won't sign a bill that adds to the National Debt.
Pres: I won't sign a bill that adds to the National Debt.
Comment by 
Random on 08/11/2009 17:55:15
Random on 08/11/2009 17:55:15
Random is so very tired...so very tired.
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:57:09
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 17:57:09
Are ya back or still travlin' ?
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 18:00:46
Raine on 08/11/2009 18:00:46
Where the hell is Tri?
Seriously What was this all about?
Seriously What was this all about?
@TriSec13 I just got interviewed by WSJ!!!
Comment by Random on 08/11/2009 18:03:00
Random on 08/11/2009 18:03:00
got back sunday night.
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:05:42
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:05:42
Quote by Raine:
GREAT question! What would good access to mental health care be on our society?
(my answer: we wouldn't have birthers and teabaggers, but hey that is just my opinion.)
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 18:07:59
cool - glad you got back safe
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 18:07:59
Quote by Random:
got back sunday night.
cool - glad you got back safe
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:10:30
He's in New Hampshire counter-protesting the nutbags today.
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:10:30
Quote by Raine:
Where the hell is Tri?
Seriously What was this all about?@TriSec13 I just got interviewed by WSJ!!!
He's in New Hampshire counter-protesting the nutbags today.
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:10:47
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:10:47
Welcome back Random m'boy!
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:17:01
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:17:01
Arghghghgh!!! The one time I order something from Newegg and I assume I'll have it next day because I expect it to come UPS Ground from New Jersey, it gets sent from Seattle instead and I have to wait three days.
Ah well.. I'll hafta find something else to do instead of installing my new hard drive or playing COD Modern Warfare.
Ah well.. I'll hafta find something else to do instead of installing my new hard drive or playing COD Modern Warfare.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 18:19:13
:clap:
That last Q&A was the VERY best thing. The president made it CLEAR that he wants Americans to have the SAME health care options that ALL federal employees have.
Federal Employees have a health insurance exchange. Congress critters and Janitors already have the same choices... All Americans should have them now!
Raine on 08/11/2009 18:19:13
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
Where the hell is Tri?
Seriously What was this all about?@TriSec13 I just got interviewed by WSJ!!!
He's in New Hampshire counter-protesting the nutbags today.
:clap:
That last Q&A was the VERY best thing. The president made it CLEAR that he wants Americans to have the SAME health care options that ALL federal employees have.
Federal Employees have a health insurance exchange. Congress critters and Janitors already have the same choices... All Americans should have them now!
Comment by Random on 08/11/2009 18:20:27
Random on 08/11/2009 18:20:27
I'm glad to be back.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 18:29:17
Raine on 08/11/2009 18:29:17
Clair McCaskil is already losing control of her townhall.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 18:29:52
So nice to see you m'Dear! how was the vacay?
Raine on 08/11/2009 18:29:52
Quote by Random:
I'm glad to be back.
So nice to see you m'Dear! how was the vacay?
Comment by Random on 08/11/2009 18:34:32
it was entertaining.
Random on 08/11/2009 18:34:32
Quote by Raine:Quote by Random:
I'm glad to be back.
So nice to see you m'Dear! how was the vacay?
it was entertaining.
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:36:56
I really hope he does a LOT more of these. It seems like he's one of only a few people who's able to counteract the batshit crazy wingnut brigade that's been trolling these public forums. And he's the only one who actually manages to get press coverage out of it.
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:36:56
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
Where the hell is Tri?
Seriously What was this all about?@TriSec13 I just got interviewed by WSJ!!!
He's in New Hampshire counter-protesting the nutbags today.
:clap:
That last Q&A was the VERY best thing. The president made it CLEAR that he wants Americans to have the SAME health care options that ALL federal employees have.
Federal Employees have a health insurance exchange. Congress critters and Janitors already have the same choices... All Americans should have them now!
I really hope he does a LOT more of these. It seems like he's one of only a few people who's able to counteract the batshit crazy wingnut brigade that's been trolling these public forums. And he's the only one who actually manages to get press coverage out of it.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 18:45:42
Didn't Cindy Sheehan get arrested at the State of the Union for wearing an AntiWar Tshirt?
Raine on 08/11/2009 18:45:42
Quote by Random:
Interesting
Didn't Cindy Sheehan get arrested at the State of the Union for wearing an AntiWar Tshirt?
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:52:04
Aye, and didn't hundreds of people get sardine-canned into a New York City warehouse for three days for walking down the street during a protest march?
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 18:52:04
Quote by Raine:Quote by Random:
Interesting
Didn't Cindy Sheehan get arrested at the State of the Union for wearing an AntiWar Tshirt?
Aye, and didn't hundreds of people get sardine-canned into a New York City warehouse for three days for walking down the street during a protest march?
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 19:01:12
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 19:01:12
damn you twitter - not even getting the fail whale again :\
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 19:12:48
I thought it was me...
Raine on 08/11/2009 19:12:48
Quote by wickedpam:
damn you twitter - not even getting the fail whale again :\
I thought it was me...
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 19:14:34
probably another hacker attack or something
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 19:14:34
Quote by Raine:Quote by wickedpam:
damn you twitter - not even getting the fail whale again :\
I thought it was me...
probably another hacker attack or something
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 19:16:30
Funny thing -- there was not one gun among us.
Raine on 08/11/2009 19:16:30
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:Quote by Random:
Interesting
Didn't Cindy Sheehan get arrested at the State of the Union for wearing an AntiWar Tshirt?
Aye, and didn't hundreds of people get sardine-canned into a New York City warehouse for three days for walking down the street during a protest march?
Funny thing -- there was not one gun among us.
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:17:58
Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:17:58
Eunice Kennedy Shriver has passed away. 
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 19:18:38
Raine on 08/11/2009 19:18:38
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:27:44
He has a carry license and was on private property at the proprietor's invitation. That's about all you need. Thankfully NH doesn't have concealed carry.
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:27:44
Quote by Raine:
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
He has a carry license and was on private property at the proprietor's invitation. That's about all you need. Thankfully NH doesn't have concealed carry.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:29:00
Uh yeah there is.
Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:29:00
Quote by Raine:
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
Uh yeah there is.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 19:31:09
Don't Church's lose the tax exempt status for participating in political activity?
Raine on 08/11/2009 19:31:09
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
He has a carry license and was on private property at the proprietor's invitation. That's about all you need. Thankfully NH doesn't have concealed carry.
Don't Church's lose the tax exempt status for participating in political activity?
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 19:31:48
Raine on 08/11/2009 19:31:48
WWJS?
(Who Would Jesus Shoot)
(Who Would Jesus Shoot)
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:35:28
Scoop, New Hampshire does have concealed carry. I just looked it up.
Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:35:28
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
He has a carry license and was on private property at the proprietor's invitation. That's about all you need. Thankfully NH doesn't have concealed carry.
Scoop, New Hampshire does have concealed carry. I just looked it up.
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:36:40
They're allowing people to loiter on their property. The church isn't participating - the people they allowed to stand there are.
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:36:40
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
He has a carry license and was on private property at the proprietor's invitation. That's about all you need. Thankfully NH doesn't have concealed carry.
Don't Church's lose the tax exempt status for participating in political activity?
They're allowing people to loiter on their property. The church isn't participating - the people they allowed to stand there are.
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:37:40
Oho? I did not know that good sir!
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:37:40
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
He has a carry license and was on private property at the proprietor's invitation. That's about all you need. Thankfully NH doesn't have concealed carry.
Scoop, New Hampshire does have concealed carry. I just looked it up.
Oho? I did not know that good sir!
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:38:44
Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:38:44
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:40:06
Since at least 1986. With that said is it as easy to get carry permit in New Hampshire as it is Georgia? I dunno.
Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:40:06
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
He has a carry license and was on private property at the proprietor's invitation. That's about all you need. Thankfully NH doesn't have concealed carry.
Scoop, New Hampshire does have concealed carry. I just looked it up.
Oho? I did not know that good sir!
Since at least 1986. With that said is it as easy to get carry permit in New Hampshire as it is Georgia? I dunno.
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:42:51
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:42:51
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 19:45:06
I doubt it.
Raine on 08/11/2009 19:45:06
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
He has a carry license and was on private property at the proprietor's invitation. That's about all you need. Thankfully NH doesn't have concealed carry.
Scoop, New Hampshire does have concealed carry. I just looked it up.
Oho? I did not know that good sir!
Since at least 1986. With that said is it as easy to get carry permit in New Hampshire as it is Georgia? I dunno.
I doubt it.
Comment by Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:48:28
Interesting.. most states has some form of conceal carry. That's quite eye-opening.
Scoopster on 08/11/2009 19:48:28
Quote by Mondobubba:
Here is a map from wikipedia that breaks down carry by state and year.
Interesting.. most states has some form of conceal carry. That's quite eye-opening.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:55:20
That wuz one of them thar fancy rhetorical questions, Missy! But to answer the question seriously, there is no range or safety check required for carry permit in Georgia.
Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 19:55:20
Quote by Raine:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:
The guy didn't have a concealed weapon. But he was on private property... AT A CHURCH -- who is allowing political Protests?
How does that work? Isn't there some kinda IRS law about that?
He has a carry license and was on private property at the proprietor's invitation. That's about all you need. Thankfully NH doesn't have concealed carry.
Scoop, New Hampshire does have concealed carry. I just looked it up.
Oho? I did not know that good sir!
Since at least 1986. With that said is it as easy to get carry permit in New Hampshire as it is Georgia? I dunno.
I doubt it.
That wuz one of them thar fancy rhetorical questions, Missy! But to answer the question seriously, there is no range or safety check required for carry permit in Georgia.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 20:28:58
Mondobubba on 08/11/2009 20:28:58
Comment by livingonli on 08/11/2009 20:46:54
livingonli on 08/11/2009 20:46:54
Well I got my car back and the rental's been returned. Did anyone miss me :)
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 21:02:23
of course
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 21:02:23
Quote by livingonli:
Well I got my car back and the rental's been returned. Did anyone miss me :)
of course
Comment by wickedpam on 08/11/2009 21:04:26
wickedpam on 08/11/2009 21:04:26
time to start cleaning up to go home - see ya'll later 
Comment by livingonli on 08/11/2009 21:06:42
livingonli on 08/11/2009 21:06:42
Have a fun night, Mala.
Comment by Raine on 08/11/2009 21:53:55
Raine on 08/11/2009 21:53:55
Comment by livingonli on 08/11/2009 22:33:35
livingonli on 08/11/2009 22:33:35
Now that North Carolina has turned blue they are finally entering the 20th century. Now, they just need to apologize for Jesse Helms.
Comment by livingonli on 08/12/2009 00:52:53
livingonli on 08/12/2009 00:52:53
Why does Dick Morris still have a job?
Comment by TriSec on 08/12/2009 01:02:39
TriSec on 08/12/2009 01:02:39
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/12/2009 01:24:57
Because he lets Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch pound him in the backside bareback?
Mondobubba on 08/12/2009 01:24:57
Quote by livingonli:
Why does Dick Morris still have a job?
Because he lets Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch pound him in the backside bareback?
Comment by TriSec on 08/12/2009 01:36:51
TriSec on 08/12/2009 01:36:51
Something else to chew on. Saw a bunch of folks holding up the "Obama is a Nazi" signs featuring Mr. President with a little push-broom mustache.
They weren't GOP. All Lyndon LaRouche supporters.
They weren't GOP. All Lyndon LaRouche supporters.
Comment by Raine on 08/12/2009 01:36:59
Raine on 08/12/2009 01:36:59
I wonder if Clair McCaskill FINALLY gets that these people are not just *grassroots* folks.
Comment by livingonli on 08/12/2009 01:37:53
livingonli on 08/12/2009 01:37:53
My mind's eye had to clean out that mental image. 
Comment by livingonli on 08/12/2009 01:39:07
Considering some of Lyndon's own views he should have a better understanding of Nazism..
livingonli on 08/12/2009 01:39:07
Quote by TriSec:
Something else to chew on. Saw a bunch of folks holding up the "Obama is a Nazi" signs featuring Mr. President with a little push-broom mustache.
They weren't GOP. All Lyndon LaRouche supporters.
Considering some of Lyndon's own views he should have a better understanding of Nazism..
Comment by Raine on 08/12/2009 01:42:59
Interesting. Isn't LaRouche even more radical that right wing libertarians?
Raine on 08/12/2009 01:42:59
Quote by TriSec:
Something else to chew on. Saw a bunch of folks holding up the "Obama is a Nazi" signs featuring Mr. President with a little push-broom mustache.
They weren't GOP. All Lyndon LaRouche supporters.
Interesting. Isn't LaRouche even more radical that right wing libertarians?
Comment by TriSec on 08/12/2009 01:46:44
TriSec on 08/12/2009 01:46:44
Here I am in the WSJ! Although they got some details wrong...
David Matayabas, of Waltham, Mass., said the Communications Workers of America leadership had rallied members to come out in force.
"I think they're ill-informed, they're not very smart, and they're regurgitating talking points from Rush Limbaugh," said Mr. Matayabas, who was recently laid off from Athena Health Care in Watertown, Mass., where he worked claims. At one point, he said, he worked on the board trying to figure out how to deny claims. Now he pays $900 a month to keep his coverage through Cobra, the U.S. plan that lets workers who lose health benefits continue to receive them for a limited time.
Comment by Raine on 08/12/2009 01:48:34
Raine on 08/12/2009 01:48:34
I have a feeling we are turning the corner on these liers. When you have Isackson coming out against the lies, that says something. Tomorrow will be a busy day for me, we have to debunk a good many new lies.
Comment by Raine on 08/12/2009 01:50:30
Tri! Wowser!
Yeah -- they kinda fucked a few details up.
Raine on 08/12/2009 01:50:30
Quote by TriSec:
Here I am in the WSJ! Although they got some details wrong...
David Matayabas, of Waltham, Mass., said the Communications Workers of America leadership had rallied members to come out in force.
"I think they're ill-informed, they're not very smart, and they're regurgitating talking points from Rush Limbaugh," said Mr. Matayabas, who was recently laid off from Athena Health Care in Watertown, Mass., where he worked claims. At one point, he said, he worked on the board trying to figure out how to deny claims. Now he pays $900 a month to keep his coverage through Cobra, the U.S. plan that lets workers who lose health benefits continue to receive them for a limited time.
Tri! Wowser!
Yeah -- they kinda fucked a few details up.
Comment by livingonli on 08/12/2009 01:51:04
livingonli on 08/12/2009 01:51:04
230 mpg for the Volt. If only I could afford one.
Comment by BobR on 08/12/2009 01:51:09
Christ - they made it sound like you were referring to the union members as "ill-informed...".
BobR on 08/12/2009 01:51:09
Quote by TriSec:
Here I am in the WSJ! Although they got some details wrong...
David Matayabas, of Waltham, Mass., said the Communications Workers of America leadership had rallied members to come out in force.
"I think they're ill-informed, they're not very smart, and they're regurgitating talking points from Rush Limbaugh," said Mr. Matayabas, who was recently laid off from Athena Health Care in Watertown, Mass., where he worked claims. At one point, he said, he worked on the board trying to figure out how to deny claims. Now he pays $900 a month to keep his coverage through Cobra, the U.S. plan that lets workers who lose health benefits continue to receive them for a limited time.
Christ - they made it sound like you were referring to the union members as "ill-informed...".
Comment by Raine on 08/12/2009 01:56:14
Raine on 08/12/2009 01:56:14
Tri, that deserves a letter to the editor of the WSJ.
Comment by TriSec on 08/12/2009 01:58:36
TriSec on 08/12/2009 01:58:36
Looking for a feedback link right now.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/12/2009 01:58:44
LaRouche is all over the map and pretty nutty.
Mondobubba on 08/12/2009 01:58:44
Quote by Raine:Quote by TriSec:
Something else to chew on. Saw a bunch of folks holding up the "Obama is a Nazi" signs featuring Mr. President with a little push-broom mustache.
They weren't GOP. All Lyndon LaRouche supporters.
Interesting. Isn't LaRouche even more radical that right wing libertarians?
LaRouche is all over the map and pretty nutty.
Comment by Raine on 08/12/2009 01:59:22
Raine on 08/12/2009 01:59:22
Forget the gun guy who wasn't arrested. This is the one that was.
And these are the people who make me really nervous.
And these are the people who make me really nervous.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/12/2009 01:59:48
But he's against the current reform bills.
Mondobubba on 08/12/2009 01:59:48
Quote by Raine:
I have a feeling we are turning the corner on these liers. When you have Isackson coming out against the lies, that says something. Tomorrow will be a busy day for me, we have to debunk a good many new lies.
But he's against the current reform bills.
Comment by TriSec on 08/12/2009 02:19:33
TriSec on 08/12/2009 02:19:33
Written and sent!
Comment by TriSec on 08/12/2009 02:27:06
TriSec on 08/12/2009 02:27:06
I'm-a going to bed. Long day. TTFN!
Comment by Raine on 08/12/2009 02:31:10
Perhaps you are missing the point. For or against HCR, when someone like Johnny has to fight the smears--- it no longer matters -- it means that the truth is getting out there. Sarah may have actually helped the HCR cause.
How is he REALLY going to say he is against health care reform when he said what he said today in WaPo? One thing I TRULY believe is that most ® are FOR HCR in their hearts -- just not in the wallet. Isackson showed a very interesting hand today.
It means that he is divided. It means that we can bring him over to the moderate side. Even the president mentioned him today @ the town hall. That was big ---
Raine on 08/12/2009 02:31:10
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
I have a feeling we are turning the corner on these liers. When you have Isackson coming out against the lies, that says something. Tomorrow will be a busy day for me, we have to debunk a good many new lies.
But he's against the current reform bills.
Perhaps you are missing the point. For or against HCR, when someone like Johnny has to fight the smears--- it no longer matters -- it means that the truth is getting out there. Sarah may have actually helped the HCR cause.
How is he REALLY going to say he is against health care reform when he said what he said today in WaPo? One thing I TRULY believe is that most ® are FOR HCR in their hearts -- just not in the wallet. Isackson showed a very interesting hand today.
It means that he is divided. It means that we can bring him over to the moderate side. Even the president mentioned him today @ the town hall. That was big ---
Comment by livingonli on 08/12/2009 02:40:41
livingonli on 08/12/2009 02:40:41
It certainly shows how the WSJ's news coverage has become as its editorial section since Murdoch bought it and converted it into a higher class version of the NY Post.
Comment by Raine on 08/12/2009 02:43:17
Raine on 08/12/2009 02:43:17
Here is another tibit: And this from the same blog: Source.
That was my point. Palin is making these folks backtrack. "Once you go back -- well you kinda have to go Barack™."
Isakson is a member of Senate Health committee that played a key role in shaping the health care reform legislation. He successfully offered an amendment in committee that allows funds for a government-funded program that provides in-home services to people with disabilities to be used for advance care planning, according to the national Hospice and Palliative Care Organization.
Isakson has been promoting advance care planning for years. In 2007, for example, he co-sponsored two bills to encourage such planning -- the Medicare End-of-Life Care Planning Act and the Advance Planning and Compassionate Care Act.
In 2005, Isakson joined with state lawmakers to publicly sign a personal "Directive for Final Health Care" to encourage Georgians to discuss their personal wishes for end-of-life care. He cited the controversial case of Terry Schiavo -- a Florida woman who lived for several years in a persistent vegetative state before her husband had her disconnected from a feeding tube -- to illustrate the importance of advance planning.
But at least one other Georgia politician has tried to distance himself from Palin, with Congressman Jack Kingston (R-Ga.) telling Bill Maher that her "death panel" allegation was "a scare tactic."
That was my point. Palin is making these folks backtrack. "Once you go back -- well you kinda have to go Barack™."
Comment by Raine on 08/12/2009 02:48:02
Raine on 08/12/2009 02:48:02
One more thing... here is an email from Johnny:
HE is all ascared of taxes. I think we are WELL on the way to showing that is not true. he gave an inch -- now we can show him the mile.
We all know that the current health care system must be reformed. Unfortunately, Democrats in Congress are focused on rushing though a radical health care bill. Despite their promises that this overhaul will not raise your taxes, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimates the measure will cost $1.2 to $1.8 trillion over 10 years.
Where will the money come from to pay for this new, enormous entitlement? While Democrats claim that only the ultra wealthy will pay the bill, I think you know better. The only way to pay for any plan with such a price tag is through massive tax increases for all Americans. Such massive tax increases are unacceptable at any time but particularly at this time when our nation’s economy is trying to recover from recession.
Instead of these economy crushing tax and health care proposals, I support alternative solutions like S.1099, the Patients’ Choice Act of 2009, which seeks to strengthen the relationship between the patient and the doctor by using choice and competition, rather than rationing and restrictions, to contain costs and ensure affordable health care for all Americans.
When you combine the new costs that the current administration has proposed – from the health care overhaul to cap-and-trade to big labor’s card check agenda, not to mention the already-passed stimulus bill – it seems that the Democrats in power are on an unsustainable spending spree to promote their social agenda that will bankrupt our country.
I am fighting these new taxes that will harm America’s future and overly burden our children and grandchildren with excessive debt. I need your support! Please tell me what you think about these policies on my Facebook page and show your support by forwarding this e-mail to a friend.
HE is all ascared of taxes. I think we are WELL on the way to showing that is not true. he gave an inch -- now we can show him the mile.
Comment by Mondobubba on 08/12/2009 03:27:39
Point taken.
Mondobubba on 08/12/2009 03:27:39
Quote by Raine:Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Raine:
I have a feeling we are turning the corner on these liers. When you have Isackson coming out against the lies, that says something. Tomorrow will be a busy day for me, we have to debunk a good many new lies.
But he's against the current reform bills.
Perhaps you are missing the point. For or against HCR, when someone like Johnny has to fight the smears--- it no longer matters -- it means that the truth is getting out there. Sarah may have actually helped the HCR cause.
How is he REALLY going to say he is against health care reform when he said what he said today in WaPo? One thing I TRULY believe is that most ® are FOR HCR in their hearts -- just not in the wallet. Isackson showed a very interesting hand today.
It means that he is divided. It means that we can bring him over to the moderate side. Even the president mentioned him today @ the town hall. That was big ---
Point taken.