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The Bidening
Author: BobR
Date: 10/12/2012 12:54:32
There was a lot of pressure on both candidates heading into last night's vice-presidential debate. Ryan need to appear presidential. Biden needed to purge the ghosts of the previous presidential debate. Knowing Joe, it promised to be a lively debate, and it certainly did not disappoint.
It was apparent into Ryan's first answer that Joe wasn't holding anything back. Where Ryan was attempting to maintain a steeley facade, Biden was the definition of animated. From smiles and laughs to exasperated gapes, he was rarely still. He also occassionally interrupted Ryan when Ryan told a particularly aggregious whopper.
The moderator - Martha Raddatz - was unfortunately part of the action too. She inserted her own opinions into the questions asking things like (referring to the attacks on the Libyan embassy): "Wasn't that an Intelligence breakdown?", rather than a more neutral "Do you think there was an Intelligence breakdown?" or "How do you think Intelligence played into the attacks?" To be fair, she also asked Ryan (when he was talking about his budget proposals) "Do you actually have the specifics, or are you still working on it?"
There weren't a lot of pre-packaged zingers, although there were some memorable lines:
Biden: "With all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey"
Ryan: "I think the vice president knows, sometimes the words don't always come out of your mouth the way you want."
Biden (in response): "But I always say what I mean"
Biden: "Oh, now you're Jack Kennedy"
(the aforementioned) Raddatz: "Do you actually have the specifics, or are you still working on it?"
Based on what I was seeing online as the debate progressed, whether you think Biden was great or was rude broke down squarely along party lines. What the middle-of-the-road and/or undecideds think is less clear, but will likely show up in the polls in a few days. There will be discussions on the body language of the two, but I think the takeaway is that with Biden - what you see is what you get; there was no phoniness. Ryan kept his jaw tight, but you could see anger and frustration in his eyes, and his cheeks were flushing.
In the end, it's likely no one on the right or left had their mind changed by the debate. Hopefully, those in the middle realize which party is looking out for the best interests of the entire country, and which party supports their party platform in private, runs from it in public, and talks a good game on numbers, but can't produce them when asked.
It was apparent into Ryan's first answer that Joe wasn't holding anything back. Where Ryan was attempting to maintain a steeley facade, Biden was the definition of animated. From smiles and laughs to exasperated gapes, he was rarely still. He also occassionally interrupted Ryan when Ryan told a particularly aggregious whopper.
The moderator - Martha Raddatz - was unfortunately part of the action too. She inserted her own opinions into the questions asking things like (referring to the attacks on the Libyan embassy): "Wasn't that an Intelligence breakdown?", rather than a more neutral "Do you think there was an Intelligence breakdown?" or "How do you think Intelligence played into the attacks?" To be fair, she also asked Ryan (when he was talking about his budget proposals) "Do you actually have the specifics, or are you still working on it?"
There weren't a lot of pre-packaged zingers, although there were some memorable lines:
Biden: "With all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey"
Ryan: "I think the vice president knows, sometimes the words don't always come out of your mouth the way you want."
Biden (in response): "But I always say what I mean"
Biden: "Oh, now you're Jack Kennedy"
(the aforementioned) Raddatz: "Do you actually have the specifics, or are you still working on it?"
Based on what I was seeing online as the debate progressed, whether you think Biden was great or was rude broke down squarely along party lines. What the middle-of-the-road and/or undecideds think is less clear, but will likely show up in the polls in a few days. There will be discussions on the body language of the two, but I think the takeaway is that with Biden - what you see is what you get; there was no phoniness. Ryan kept his jaw tight, but you could see anger and frustration in his eyes, and his cheeks were flushing.
In the end, it's likely no one on the right or left had their mind changed by the debate. Hopefully, those in the middle realize which party is looking out for the best interests of the entire country, and which party supports their party platform in private, runs from it in public, and talks a good game on numbers, but can't produce them when asked.
Comments:
Order comments Newest to Oldest Refresh Comments
Comment by 
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:08:42
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:08:42
First! 
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee!! 
It's probably gonna take me all weekend to write that blog post Bobber, so if you guys have something already done go for it.
Mornin' all & Happy Fridee!! It's probably gonna take me all weekend to write that blog post Bobber, so if you guys have something already done go for it.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:11:24
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:11:24
Also, I'm catching up on last night's debate this morning while I work.
The VERY FIRST THING out of Ryan's mouth is an outright lie. Obama didn't call the thing in Libya a coordinated terrorist attack right away because WE DIDN'T HAVE PROOF THAT IT WAS ONE!
The VERY FIRST THING out of Ryan's mouth is an outright lie. Obama didn't call the thing in Libya a coordinated terrorist attack right away because WE DIDN'T HAVE PROOF THAT IT WAS ONE!
Comment by 
TriSec on 10/12/2012 13:11:27
TriSec on 10/12/2012 13:11:27
Greetings, comrades!
Ditching my pump in a few hours - that's halfway!
Ditching my pump in a few hours - that's halfway!
Comment by 
Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 13:16:56
Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 13:16:56
Morning! Boy, I'd hate to be Paul Ryan's cut man. Ouch!
Poor little Eddit Munster.
Poor little Eddit Munster.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:19:58
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:19:58
Just keep beating that damn Iran war drum, P90-X.
And now the LIE about Obama blowing off Netanyahu again.
And now the LIE about Obama blowing off Netanyahu again.
Comment by 
BobR on 10/12/2012 13:23:21
BobR on 10/12/2012 13:23:21
Blog is posted
Comment by BobR on 10/12/2012 13:24:02
w00t!
BobR on 10/12/2012 13:24:02
Quote by TriSec:
Greetings, comrades!
Ditching my pump in a few hours - that's halfway!
w00t!
Comment by TriSec on 10/12/2012 13:24:56
TriSec on 10/12/2012 13:24:56
There's some asschub action to check out...
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:36:38
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:36:38
One party control when Obama came into office? BULLSHIT.
What was the timeframe between the time Al Franken FINALLY was seated in the Senate and Scott Brown won the special election in MA? A month? Two?
What was passed during that short timeframe when we actually had 60 votes to break a filibuster? The MINOR NON-BUDGETARY FIXES to the Affordable Care Act. EVERYTHING ELSE before or after that, from legislation to help the economy to executive and judicial appointments, either got filibustered into oblivion or had to be watered down to the point where one of the few partially sane GOP senators would cross the aisle.
What was the timeframe between the time Al Franken FINALLY was seated in the Senate and Scott Brown won the special election in MA? A month? Two?
What was passed during that short timeframe when we actually had 60 votes to break a filibuster? The MINOR NON-BUDGETARY FIXES to the Affordable Care Act. EVERYTHING ELSE before or after that, from legislation to help the economy to executive and judicial appointments, either got filibustered into oblivion or had to be watered down to the point where one of the few partially sane GOP senators would cross the aisle.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 13:38:10
Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 13:38:10
Spoiler alter, Scoop! my favorite debate moment was about an hour in when JB went all goggle-eyed at something Ryan said. The look was very much one of What the FUCK are you talking about, Eddie Munster?
Comment by 
trojanrabbit on 10/12/2012 13:46:41
trojanrabbit on 10/12/2012 13:46:41
So the same people who beat their chests and crowed that Romney "beat" Obama are whining that Mean Old Joe beat up on poor defenseless Eddie....
1. As Obama IS the President, I expect him to act "presidential". I have no expectation for a Republican to act as anything other than a sniveling, whining, lying Republican, no matter what office he's running for.
2. I see the VP position partially as being the President's "bulldog". I have no expectation of Biden (or Ryan) to act "Presidential". Sure, Biden stammered a bit, but he had to deal with massive amounts of bullshit spewing from Ryan.
Maybe poor defenseless Eddie should sic Spot on Biden.
1. As Obama IS the President, I expect him to act "presidential". I have no expectation for a Republican to act as anything other than a sniveling, whining, lying Republican, no matter what office he's running for.
2. I see the VP position partially as being the President's "bulldog". I have no expectation of Biden (or Ryan) to act "Presidential". Sure, Biden stammered a bit, but he had to deal with massive amounts of bullshit spewing from Ryan.
Maybe poor defenseless Eddie should sic Spot on Biden.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 13:53:41
I know, right. That is the dumbest GOP talking point ever!
Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 13:53:41
Quote by Scoopster:
One party control when Obama came into office? BULLSHIT.
What was the timeframe between the time Al Franken FINALLY was seated in the Senate and Scott Brown won the special election in MA? A month? Two?
What was passed during that short timeframe when we actually had 60 votes to break a filibuster? The MINOR NON-BUDGETARY FIXES to the Affordable Care Act. EVERYTHING ELSE before or after that, from legislation to help the economy to executive and judicial appointments, either got filibustered into oblivion or had to be watered down to the point where one of the few partially sane GOP senators would cross the aisle.
I know, right. That is the dumbest GOP talking point ever!
Comment by TriSec on 10/12/2012 13:53:54
TriSec on 10/12/2012 13:53:54
I listened to a significant portion of this on the radio last night.
Without visuals, Biden was going all King Arthur on the Black Knight.
Without visuals, Biden was going all King Arthur on the Black Knight.
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/12/2012 13:57:36
Let's not forget Blow Dog DINOs like Nelson.
trojanrabbit on 10/12/2012 13:57:36
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by Scoopster:
One party control when Obama came into office? BULLSHIT.
What was the timeframe between the time Al Franken FINALLY was seated in the Senate and Scott Brown won the special election in MA? A month? Two?
What was passed during that short timeframe when we actually had 60 votes to break a filibuster? The MINOR NON-BUDGETARY FIXES to the Affordable Care Act. EVERYTHING ELSE before or after that, from legislation to help the economy to executive and judicial appointments, either got filibustered into oblivion or had to be watered down to the point where one of the few partially sane GOP senators would cross the aisle.
I know, right. That is the dumbest GOP talking point ever!
Let's not forget Blow Dog DINOs like Nelson.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:58:03
Biden really just said "If Romney did just a good job as governor in MA why isn't he even contesting there?"
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 13:58:03
Biden really just said "If Romney did just a good job as governor in MA why isn't he even contesting there?"
Comment by trojanrabbit on 10/12/2012 14:04:16
Yes he did.
Of course, Ryan had no response for that.
We in MA know how Rmoney would "govern". No tax hikes, but lots of fee hikes.
Whenever he was out of state, he would bash us. Now he thinks he can claim he's responsible for our being #1 in education.
And Willard was so downtrodden and poor he had to live in his son's basement.
trojanrabbit on 10/12/2012 14:04:16
Quote by Scoopster:
Biden really just said "If Romney did just a good job as governor in MA why isn't he even contesting there?"
Yes he did.
Of course, Ryan had no response for that.
We in MA know how Rmoney would "govern". No tax hikes, but lots of fee hikes.
Whenever he was out of state, he would bash us. Now he thinks he can claim he's responsible for our being #1 in education.
And Willard was so downtrodden and poor he had to live in his son's basement.
Comment by TriSec on 10/12/2012 14:12:52
That's the one thing that pissed me off about him. He couldn't even be a gracious host when the Dems came here in '04. Dude, you hate the state so much, why are you in charge, then?
TriSec on 10/12/2012 14:12:52
Quote by trojanrabbit:
Whenever he was out of state, he would bash us. Now he thinks he can claim he's responsible for our being #1 in education.
That's the one thing that pissed me off about him. He couldn't even be a gracious host when the Dems came here in '04. Dude, you hate the state so much, why are you in charge, then?
Comment by 
Raine on 10/12/2012 14:13:03
Raine on 10/12/2012 14:13:03
Good Morning! 
I slept well from the aftermath I shall *The Bidening*
I slept well from the aftermath I shall *The Bidening*
Comment by BobR on 10/12/2012 14:14:14
BobR on 10/12/2012 14:14:14
Quote by TriSec:
I listened to a significant portion of this on the radio last night.
Without visuals, Biden was going all King Arthur on the Black Knight.
Comment by 
wickedpam on 10/12/2012 14:20:19
wickedpam on 10/12/2012 14:20:19
Morning 
Finally drug my butt out of bed - I love vacation days
Finally drug my butt out of bed - I love vacation days
Comment by TriSec on 10/12/2012 14:25:29
TriSec on 10/12/2012 14:25:29
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 14:27:07
Raine on 10/12/2012 14:27:07
Late last night, (After midnite) MSNBC/NBC Had a group of 8 voters who were self identified as not sure/undecided. After the debate the fellow asked by hand raise if the debate helped them become more informed. All but one raised hands. (guy on the top left)
He then asked if they would vote for Romeny/Ruan. One woman rasied her hand. (lower left seat)
He asked who would vote for Obama/Biden after watching; 5 raised hands.
The other 2 remaining said they wanted to watch the next 2 debates. I thought that was interesting.
He then asked if they would vote for Romeny/Ruan. One woman rasied her hand. (lower left seat)
He asked who would vote for Obama/Biden after watching; 5 raised hands.
The other 2 remaining said they wanted to watch the next 2 debates. I thought that was interesting.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 14:29:43
Tis seasonal. I will get my candy corn on for Halloween only.
Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 14:29:43
Quote by TriSec:
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
Tis seasonal. I will get my candy corn on for Halloween only.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 14:36:12
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 14:36:12
LOOOOOOOOOOL HONESTY
I need someone to shop Mr. P90-X onto this picture:
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/d02c2ad547c60d07f1c5aa4865d38cce.jpg
I need someone to shop Mr. P90-X onto this picture:
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/d02c2ad547c60d07f1c5aa4865d38cce.jpg
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 14:39:40
Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 14:39:40
Quote by Scoopster:
LOOOOOOOOOOL HONESTY
I need someone to shop Mr. P90-X onto this picture:
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/d02c2ad547c60d07f1c5aa4865d38cce.jpg
Comment by BobR on 10/12/2012 14:48:24
Does it have sugar? Then yes.
BobR on 10/12/2012 14:48:24
Quote by TriSec:
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
Does it have sugar? Then yes.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 14:50:32
I used to love candy corn man.. I can't eat it anymore tho it makes me sick.
Tell ya what tho.. I'll trade all my candy corn for all your Reese's cups!
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 14:50:32
Quote by TriSec:
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
I used to love candy corn man.. I can't eat it anymore tho it makes me sick.
Tell ya what tho.. I'll trade all my candy corn for all your Reese's cups!
Comment by wickedpam on 10/12/2012 14:51:33
enjoy - if its made right its only made with honey
wickedpam on 10/12/2012 14:51:33
Quote by TriSec:
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
enjoy - if its made right its only made with honey
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 14:54:11
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 14:54:11
Okay done with the debate.. jeez what a clobberin'!
Oh yeh I didn't mention it when I heard it, but hooooly shit @ Ryan using a car crash anecdote to score points against Biden! If he just overlooked the fact that Biden's wife & daughter were KILLED in a car crash, it's a huge blunder. If he did it intentionally tho, the guy's a bigger scumbag than we ever thought.
Oh yeh I didn't mention it when I heard it, but hooooly shit @ Ryan using a car crash anecdote to score points against Biden! If he just overlooked the fact that Biden's wife & daughter were KILLED in a car crash, it's a huge blunder. If he did it intentionally tho, the guy's a bigger scumbag than we ever thought.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 14:55:08
YES THIS!!! There was a point when they changed from using honey to using corn syrup, and ever since then when I eat the damn things they taste like a chemical factory.
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 14:55:08
Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
enjoy - if its made right its only made with honey
YES THIS!!! There was a point when they changed from using honey to using corn syrup, and ever since then when I eat the damn things they taste like a chemical factory.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 14:55:34
HFCS counts?
Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 14:55:34
Quote by BobR:Quote by TriSec:
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
Does it have sugar? Then yes.
HFCS counts?
Comment by BobR on 10/12/2012 14:57:45
I think either Kraft or Brachs uses honey (but what ratio to other sugar sources, I don't know). Check the package label.
BobR on 10/12/2012 14:57:45
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
enjoy - if its made right its only made with honey
YES THIS!!! There was a point when they changed from using honey to using corn syrup, and ever since then when I eat the damn things they taste like a chemical factory.
I think either Kraft or Brachs uses honey (but what ratio to other sugar sources, I don't know). Check the package label.
Comment by wickedpam on 10/12/2012 15:02:52
I think its Bach - they put it on the label as a selling point
wickedpam on 10/12/2012 15:02:52
Quote by BobR:Quote by Scoopster:Quote by wickedpam:Quote by TriSec:
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
enjoy - if its made right its only made with honey
YES THIS!!! There was a point when they changed from using honey to using corn syrup, and ever since then when I eat the damn things they taste like a chemical factory.
I think either Kraft or Brachs uses honey (but what ratio to other sugar sources, I don't know). Check the package label.
I think its Bach - they put it on the label as a selling point
Comment by BobR on 10/12/2012 15:03:49
maybe
BobR on 10/12/2012 15:03:49
Quote by Mondobubba:Quote by BobR:Quote by TriSec:
CANDY CORN!
Love, hate, vomit?
(Disclaimer: I loathe peeps, so there is some leeway here.)
Does it have sugar? Then yes.
HFCS counts?
maybe
Comment by TriSec on 10/12/2012 15:03:58
TriSec on 10/12/2012 15:03:58
Brach's:
Sugar, Corn Syrup, Confectioner's Glaze, Salt, Honey, Cocoa Powder, Gelatin, A whole bunch of oils, then colors, and stuff.
Very little Dow Chemical ingredients that I see.
Sugar, Corn Syrup, Confectioner's Glaze, Salt, Honey, Cocoa Powder, Gelatin, A whole bunch of oils, then colors, and stuff.
Very little Dow Chemical ingredients that I see.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 15:05:00
Like I said, I wouldn't want to by Ryan's cut man. Ouch!
As far as the car crash "joke." Well played Mr. Vice President. You were the greater man.
Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 15:05:00
Quote by Scoopster:
Okay done with the debate.. jeez what a clobberin'!
Oh yeh I didn't mention it when I heard it, but hooooly shit @ Ryan using a car crash anecdote to score points against Biden! If he just overlooked the fact that Biden's wife & daughter were KILLED in a car crash, it's a huge blunder. If he did it intentionally tho, the guy's a bigger scumbag than we ever thought.
Like I said, I wouldn't want to by Ryan's cut man. Ouch!
As far as the car crash "joke." Well played Mr. Vice President. You were the greater man.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 15:07:16
Raine on 10/12/2012 15:07:16
It was at this point when I called Privatizing Ryan a pure and clear little prick:
RYAN: Mr. Vice President, I know you’re under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but I think people would be better served if we don’t keep interrupting each other.
BIDEN: Well, don’t take all the four minutes then.
Comment by BobR on 10/12/2012 15:07:20
Less honey than salt? That takes some brass ones putting it on the package as a selling point.
BobR on 10/12/2012 15:07:20
Quote by TriSec:
Brach's:
Sugar, Corn Syrup, Confectioner's Glaze, Salt, Honey, Cocoa Powder, Gelatin, A whole bunch of oils, then colors, and stuff.
Very little Dow Chemical ingredients that I see.
Less honey than salt? That takes some brass ones putting it on the package as a selling point.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 15:09:49
Raine on 10/12/2012 15:09:49
BIDEN: The ayatollah sees his economy being crippled. The ayatollah sees that there are 50 percent fewer exports of oil. He sees the currency going into the tank. He sees the economy going into freefall. And he sees the world for the first time totally united in opposition to him getting a nuclear weapon.
Now, with regard to Bibi, who’s been my friend 39 years, the president has met with Bibi a dozen times. He’s spoken to Bibi Netanyahu as much as he’s spoken to anybody. The idea that we’re not — I was in a, just before he went to the U.N., I was in a conference call with the — with the president, with him talking to Bibi for well over an hour, in — in — in stark relief and detail of what was going on.
This is a bunch of stuff. Look, here's the deal.
RADDATZ: What does that mean, a bunch of stuff?
BIDEN: Well, it means it's simply inaccurate.
RYAN: It's Irish.
BIDEN: It - it is.
(laughter)
We Irish call it malarkey.
RADDATZ: Thanks for the translation. OK.
Comment by TriSec on 10/12/2012 15:12:11
Give the bees a break. Most of 'em are dead, don'tcha know?
TriSec on 10/12/2012 15:12:11
Quote by BobR:
Less honey than salt? That takes some brass ones putting it on the package as a selling point.
Give the bees a break. Most of 'em are dead, don'tcha know?
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 15:17:21
Scoop do you remember about where in the debate that was (I am trying to read the transcript.)
Raine on 10/12/2012 15:17:21
Quote by Scoopster:
Okay done with the debate.. jeez what a clobberin'!
Oh yeh I didn't mention it when I heard it, but hooooly shit @ Ryan using a car crash anecdote to score points against Biden! If he just overlooked the fact that Biden's wife & daughter were KILLED in a car crash, it's a huge blunder. If he did it intentionally tho, the guy's a bigger scumbag than we ever thought.
Scoop do you remember about where in the debate that was (I am trying to read the transcript.)
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 15:22:46
Raine on 10/12/2012 15:22:46
THIS was a classic Exchange:
BIDEN: That's not what they said.
RYAN: 7.4 million seniors are projected to lose their current Medicare Advantage coverage they have. That's a $3,200 benefit cut.
BIDEN: That didn't happen.
RYAN: What we're saying...
BIDEN: More people signed up.
RYAN: These are from your own actuaries.
BIDEN: More – more – more people signed up for Medicare Advantage after the change.
RYAN: What – there's...
BIDEN: Nobody...
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: Mr. Vice President, I know...
BIDEN: No, this is...
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: Mr. Vice President, I know you're under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but I think people would be better served if we don't keep interrupting each other.
BIDEN: Well, don't take all the four minutes then.
RYAN: Let me just – let me just say this. We are not–we're saying don't change benefits for people 55 and above. They already organized their retirement around these promises.
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: ... programs for those of us.
RADDATZ: But let – let me ask you this. What – what is your specific plan for seniors who really can't afford to make up the difference in the value of what you call a premium support plan and others call a voucher?
RYAN: Hundred percent coverage...
RADDATZ: And what...
(CROSSTALK)
RYAN: That's what we're saying. So we're saying...
RADDATZ: How do you make that up?
RYAN: ...income adjusts (inaudible) these premium support payments by taking down the subsidies for wealthy people.
Look, this is a plan – by the way, that $6,400 number, it was misleading then, it's totally inaccurate now. This is a plan that's bipartisan. It's a plan I put together with a prominent Democrat senator from Oregon.
BIDEN: There's not one Democrat who endorses it.
RYAN: It's a plan...
BIDEN: Not one Democrat who (inaudible).
RYAN: Our partner is a Democrat from Oregon.
BIDEN: And he said he does no longer support (inaudible).
RYAN: We – we – we put it – we put it together with the former Clinton budget director.
BIDEN: Who disavows it.
RYAN: This idea – this idea came from the Clinton commission to save Medicare chaired by Senator John Breaux.
Here's the point, Martha.
BIDEN: Which was rejected.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 15:33:05
I think it was somewhere around the half hour mark..
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 15:33:05
Quote by Raine:Quote by Scoopster:
Okay done with the debate.. jeez what a clobberin'!
Oh yeh I didn't mention it when I heard it, but hooooly shit @ Ryan using a car crash anecdote to score points against Biden! If he just overlooked the fact that Biden's wife & daughter were KILLED in a car crash, it's a huge blunder. If he did it intentionally tho, the guy's a bigger scumbag than we ever thought.
Scoop do you remember about where in the debate that was (I am trying to read the transcript.)
I think it was somewhere around the half hour mark..
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 15:33:54
Raine on 10/12/2012 15:33:54
RADDATZ: You were one of the few lawmakers to stand with President Bush when he was seeking to partially privatize Social Security.
RYAN: For younger people. What we said then, and what I've always agreed is let younger Americans have a voluntary choice of making their money work faster for them within the Social Security system.
BIDEN: You saw how well that worked.
RYAN: That's not what Mitt Romney's proposing. What we’re saying is no changes for anybody 55 and above.
Comment by 
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 15:45:46
Will in Chicago on 10/12/2012 15:45:46
BobR, thanks for a great blog.
I think that Biden showed that the Obama-Biden campaign is ready to fight hard. Incumbent presidents usually do poorly on the first debate.
I think that Biden should be used more often as an attack dog. The Republicans and their allies in the media are whining, but had no problem with Romney ignoring the rules of the debate and making up rules as he went along.
Ryan seemed unready to step up to the plate to be President. Biden seemed to be confident and supremely competent.
I think that Biden showed that the Obama-Biden campaign is ready to fight hard. Incumbent presidents usually do poorly on the first debate.
I think that Biden should be used more often as an attack dog. The Republicans and their allies in the media are whining, but had no problem with Romney ignoring the rules of the debate and making up rules as he went along.
Ryan seemed unready to step up to the plate to be President. Biden seemed to be confident and supremely competent.
Comment by Raine on 10/12/2012 15:49:04
was it this?
Raine on 10/12/2012 15:49:04
Quote by Scoopster:
I think it was somewhere around the half hour mark..
RYAN: He talks about Detroit. Mitt Romney’s a car guy. They keep misquoting him, but let me tell you about the Mitt Romney I know. This is a guy who I was talking to a family in Northborough, Massachusetts the other day, Sheryl and Mark Nixon. Their kids were hit in a car crash, four of them. Two of them, Rob and Reed, were paralyzed. The Romneys didn’t know them. They went to the same church; they never met before.
Mitt asked if he could come over on Christmas. He brought his boys, his wife, and gifts. Later on, he said, “I know you’re struggling, Mark. Don’t worry about their college. I’ll pay for it.â€
When Mark told me this story, because, you know what, Mitt Romney doesn’t tell these stories. The Nixons told this story. When he told me this story, he said it wasn’t the help, the cash help. It’s that he gave his time, and he has consistently.
Comment by Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 15:52:59
Mondobubba on 10/12/2012 15:52:59
Just did a Jim Ward Vader!
Comment by TriSec on 10/12/2012 15:53:49
TriSec on 10/12/2012 15:53:49
Chortle, snort
At the end of the night Paul Ryan held his own on style points. He was able to deliver the rehearsed lines technically. But in the end he looked like he was wearing an ill-fitting suit. Something that looked ok at first glance, but was quickly revealed to be little more than an optical illusion.
Comment by Scoopster on 10/12/2012 15:56:19
Yeah that's it.. The way Ryan worked it in seems more like he just plain didn't know about Biden's family.. Either way Joe didn't let it rattle him, which I thought was really classy.
Scoopster on 10/12/2012 15:56:19
Quote by Raine:was it this?Quote by Scoopster:
I think it was somewhere around the half hour mark..RYAN: He talks about Detroit. Mitt Romney’s a car guy. They keep misquoting him, but let me tell you about the Mitt Romney I know. This is a guy who I was talking to a family in Northborough, Massachusetts the other day, Sheryl and Mark Nixon. Their kids were hit in a car crash, four of them. Two of them, Rob and Reed, were paralyzed. The Romneys didn’t know them. They went to the same church; they never met before.
Mitt asked if he could come over on Christmas. He brought his boys, his wife, and gifts. Later on, he said, “I know you’re struggling, Mark. Don’t worry about their college. I’ll pay for it.â€
When Mark told me this story, because, you know what, Mitt Romney doesn’t tell these stories. The Nixons told this story. When he told me this story, he said it wasn’t the help, the cash help. It’s that he gave his time, and he has consistently.
Yeah that's it.. The way Ryan worked it in seems more like he just plain didn't know about Biden's family.. Either way Joe didn't let it rattle him, which I thought was really classy.
Comment by wickedpam on 10/12/2012 16:02:07
what I just picked up from that was that this family is part of the Mormon church and that they take care of their own only. If they hadn't gone to they same church would he make the same statement?
wickedpam on 10/12/2012 16:02:07
Quote by Scoopster:Quote by Raine:was it this?Quote by Scoopster:
I think it was somewhere around the half hour mark..RYAN: He talks about Detroit. Mitt Romney’s a car guy. They keep misquoting him, but let me tell you about the Mitt Romney I know. This is a guy who I was talking to a family in Northborough, Massachusetts the other day, Sheryl and Mark Nixon. Their kids were hit in a car crash, four of them. Two of them, Rob and Reed, were paralyzed. The Romneys didn’t know them. They went to the same church; they never met before.
Mitt asked if he could come over on Christmas. He brought his boys, his wife, and gifts. Later on, he said, “I know you’re struggling, Mark. Don’t worry about their college. I’ll pay for it.â€
When Mark told me this story, because, you know what, Mitt Romney doesn’t tell these stories. The Nixons told this story. When he told me this story, he said it wasn’t the help, the cash help. It’s that he gave his time, and he has consistently.
Yeah that's it.. The way Ryan worked it in seems more like he just plain didn't know about Biden's family.. Either way Joe didn't let it rattle him, which I thought was really classy.
what I just picked up from that was that this family is part of the Mormon church and that they take care of their own only. If they hadn't gone to they same church would he make the same statement?