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Cash for Clunkers
Author: BobR    Date: 2013-09-23 10:37:16

Just over a month ago I wrote a blog about how Germany was starting to shut down fossil-fueled power plants because they were no longer cost-effective, compared to solar and wind. I pointed out all the subsidies and tax breaks that coal and oil get. A new study is showing that we are seeing the same reduction in costs here in the U.S., much sooner than expected:

It’s less costly to get electricity from wind turbines and solar panels than coal-fired power plants when climate change costs and other health impacts are factored in, according to a new study published in the Journal of Environmental Studies and Sciences.

In fact—using the official U.S. government estimates of health and environmental costs from burning fossil fuels—the study shows it’s cheaper to replace a typical existing coal-fired power plant with a wind turbine than to keep the old plant running. And new electricity generation from wind could be more economically efficient than natural gas.

The findings show the nation can cut carbon pollution from power plants in a cost-effective way, by replacing coal-fired generation with cleaner options like wind, solar, and natural gas.

“Burning coal is a very costly way to make electricity. There are more efficient and sustainable ways to get power,” said Dr. Laurie Johnson, chief economist in the Climate and Clean Air Program at the Natural Resources Defense Council. “We can reduce health and climate change costs while reducing the dangerous carbon pollution driving global warming.”

So yes - the fine print takes the cost of health and environmental damage from burning fossil fuels into account. Does that seem like cheating? I don't think so. When you look at buying a car, you also have to think about the amount you will likely spend on repairs, maintenance, and lost productivity (and annoyance) if it spends a lot of time in the shop. That's known as "total cost of ownership". Cars that are more reliable are worth more because they have a lower Total Cost of Ownership. The same applies here when you consider what it costs for fixing the problems that coal-powered plants create.

This was the same idea behind the cost-controls in the ACA (aka Obamacare) - reduce the Total Cost of Ownership for the healthcare system by reducing the amount of overhead (aka profit) for the healthcare insurance industry.

You may love that old jalopy that burns oil, gets 12 MPG, smells of exhaust when you turn on the heat, and has a passenger door that can only be opened from the inside, but at a certain point, you are just throwing good money after bad. It's time to retire the junkers burning all that dirty coal (that is itself dirty and dangerous to extract), and replace them with clean turbines and solar panels that generate zero emissions. It may be a few more bucks upfront, but it'll be worth it in the long run.
 

94 comments (Latest Comment: 09/23/2013 20:18:35 by Mondobubba)
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Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 12:28:09
Good morning.

It's be nice if we could get political will to get these things done. Speaking of wind and solar and good things happening. Tesla has patented of new battery that runs for 400 miles.



Comment by BobR on 09/23/2013 12:35:32
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

It's be nice if we could get political will to get these things done. Speaking of wind and solar and good things happening. Tesla has patented of new battery that runs for 400 miles.

Wow - that's huge. That would make taking it on the road feasible, if you could charge it in the parking lot of the hotel overnight. The main problem with electric cars is the time it takes to charge, but if you can put in a day's driving on one charge, that problem nearly disappears.

Comment by TriSec on 09/23/2013 12:49:16
Morning.

My Subaru gives me 325 miles reliably on 3/4 of a tank of gas. (From my driveway to the Truck Stop at Exit 1 on the NJT.) When an electric car can do that same range (plus reserve), then it becomes viable.

I drive 80 miles round trip every day; if I had a place to recharge here at FCHP, I'd almost certainly do it. (I am slowly starting to consider ditching the ol' Subee for a TDI VW that's pushing 50 mpg.)



Comment by TriSec on 09/23/2013 12:52:52
Oh, yes...and it's time to pay the piper.

Surprisingly enough, I got an email from our old Scoutmaster this weekend that says pretty much "Where are you guys?".

I didn't actually expect to hear from him. There is one gentleman at the Troop that I've known since I started scouting in Waltham (He was Cubmaster when I got to town.) I won't lie to him.



Comment by Mondobubba on 09/23/2013 12:56:01
Quote by Raine:
Good morning.

It's be nice if we could get political will to get these things done. Speaking of wind and solar and good things happening. Tesla has patented of new battery that runs for 400 miles.




Tesla is also building out infrastructure for charging stations as well. The 400 mile battery is a huge deal.

Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 13:13:38
Morning

Oh crap, Tony Basil turned 70!

Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 13:14:14
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning

Oh crap, Tony Basil turned 70!
I just heard that too!


Comment by TriSec on 09/23/2013 13:19:58
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning

Oh crap, Tony Basil turned 70!



*choke* Why that means......I'm old too!

<-- dies.

(Cheer up, Prince is still only 55. )


Comment by trojanrabbit on 09/23/2013 13:52:01
If I were to have a plug-in car, I could plug in at work, but I sincerely doubt any apartment dweller is going to have the opportunity to plug in at home. I will just be stuck with my 35+ mpg highway.

I seriously thought of having Lucky put down on Saturday. He hadn't eaten much on Friday night at all and was listless on Saturday morning. I figured I would give him his scheduled fluids in the morning and see what happened.

As soon as the flow started, he bolted and ran off. After cleaning up the mess and installing a new needle I got him set up again in a comfortable position. To him, comfortable meant grabbing onto my arm with both paws while growling. After we got the fluids in him, he proceeded to scarf down a bunch of food. Sunday morning, he was proudly sitting beside an empty food bowl with a "FEED ME" look and I fed him more.

We left him locked up in the computer room last night (I know he HATES it, but what else can I do) and noted he ate a bit of the tuna overnight. He got his fluids without a hitch and ate a little. When I tried to lock him in there again after cleaning his litter box he attacked my feet more viciously than I've ever seen him, in addition to hissing and snarling. Told Mrs. Rabbit to be careful and just make sure the other cats aren't stealing his food. 5 minutes later he's asking me for petting. This little bastard has me on an emotional roller-coaster and it wouldn't surprise me that he knows it and is milking it for all it's worth.

Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 13:55:29
Quote by TriSec:
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning

Oh crap, Tony Basil turned 70!



*choke* Why that means......I'm old too!

<-- dies.

(Cheer up, Prince is still only 55. )



I refuse to be old - in fact I was trying on Halloween wigs in the middle of Target yesterday, much to my mother's embarrassment.

I think I figured something out over the weekend, when I try to act "grown up" I'm f-ing miserable to the point of incapacitated by tears. I'm actually happy and enjoying myself when I'm behaving like a 12 year old



Comment by BobR on 09/23/2013 14:02:07
Quote by trojanrabbit:
If I were to have a plug-in car, I could plug in at work, but I sincerely doubt any apartment dweller is going to have the opportunity to plug in at home. I will just be stuck with my 35+ mpg highway.

I seriously thought of having Lucky put down on Saturday. He hadn't eaten much on Friday night at all and was listless on Saturday morning. I figured I would give him his scheduled fluids in the morning and see what happened.

As soon as the flow started, he bolted and ran off. After cleaning up the mess and installing a new needle I got him set up again in a comfortable position. To him, comfortable meant grabbing onto my arm with both paws while growling. After we got the fluids in him, he proceeded to scarf down a bunch of food. Sunday morning, he was proudly sitting beside an empty food bowl with a "FEED ME" look and I fed him more.

We left him locked up in the computer room last night (I know he HATES it, but what else can I do) and noted he ate a bit of the tuna overnight. He got his fluids without a hitch and ate a little. When I tried to lock him in there again after cleaning his litter box he attacked my feet more viciously than I've ever seen him, in addition to hissing and snarling. Told Mrs. Rabbit to be careful and just make sure the other cats aren't stealing his food. 5 minutes later he's asking me for petting. This little bastard has me on an emotional roller-coaster and it wouldn't surprise me that he knows it and is milking it for all it's worth.

We've been going through something similar with Kizzie. Hang in there...

Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 14:14:08
Quote by BobR:
Quote by trojanrabbit:
If I were to have a plug-in car, I could plug in at work, but I sincerely doubt any apartment dweller is going to have the opportunity to plug in at home. I will just be stuck with my 35+ mpg highway.

I seriously thought of having Lucky put down on Saturday. He hadn't eaten much on Friday night at all and was listless on Saturday morning. I figured I would give him his scheduled fluids in the morning and see what happened.

As soon as the flow started, he bolted and ran off. After cleaning up the mess and installing a new needle I got him set up again in a comfortable position. To him, comfortable meant grabbing onto my arm with both paws while growling. After we got the fluids in him, he proceeded to scarf down a bunch of food. Sunday morning, he was proudly sitting beside an empty food bowl with a "FEED ME" look and I fed him more.

We left him locked up in the computer room last night (I know he HATES it, but what else can I do) and noted he ate a bit of the tuna overnight. He got his fluids without a hitch and ate a little. When I tried to lock him in there again after cleaning his litter box he attacked my feet more viciously than I've ever seen him, in addition to hissing and snarling. Told Mrs. Rabbit to be careful and just make sure the other cats aren't stealing his food. 5 minutes later he's asking me for petting. This little bastard has me on an emotional roller-coaster and it wouldn't surprise me that he knows it and is milking it for all it's worth.

We've been going through something similar with Kizzie. Hang in there...



hugs for both Lucky and Kizzie!!!


Comment by Mondobubba on 09/23/2013 14:19:07
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning

Oh crap, Tony Basil turned 70!



Tony Basil was no kid when she recorded "Micky."

Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 14:20:31
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning

Oh crap, Tony Basil turned 70!



Tony Basil was no kid when she recorded "Micky."
She was when she was a dancer on the TAMI show...


Comment by BobR on 09/23/2013 14:21:09
Quote by Mondobubba:
Quote by wickedpam:
Morning

Oh crap, Tony Basil turned 70!

Tony Basil was no kid when she recorded "Micky."

She was a choreographer and dancer for The TAMI Show. Teri Garr was one of the dancers too.

Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 14:21:12
as for clunkers - you're killin' me, I don't know if I can give up the want of owning a muscle car from the 60's (NOT a Mustang or Camero - frigin' overrated)







Comment by BobR on 09/23/2013 14:22:09
Quote by wickedpam:
as for clunkers - you're killin' me, I don't know if I can give up the want of owning a muscle car from the 60's (NOT a Mustang or Camero - frigin' overrated)

Mustangs are NOT over-rated. :smug:

Comment by TriSec on 09/23/2013 14:26:34
Quote by BobR:

Mustangs are NOT over-rated. :smug:



Best fighter of WWII, dammit!!!

Oh, wait, you meant the OTHER Mustang.

Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 14:27:28
Quote by BobR:
Quote by wickedpam:
as for clunkers - you're killin' me, I don't know if I can give up the want of owning a muscle car from the 60's (NOT a Mustang or Camero - frigin' overrated)

Mustangs are NOT over-rated. :smug:



they are totally over rated

So much rather have a Charger, Impala, Baracuda, Chevelle, and so on instead.

1968 Dodge Charger - so much more badass

http://1960-1970musclecars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/1968-Dodge-Charger-RT-Hemi-black-color.jpg


Comment by Mondobubba on 09/23/2013 14:37:07
Quote by wickedpam:
Quote by BobR:
Quote by wickedpam:
as for clunkers - you're killin' me, I don't know if I can give up the want of owning a muscle car from the 60's (NOT a Mustang or Camero - frigin' overrated)

Mustangs are NOT over-rated. :smug:



they are totally over rated

So much rather have a Charger, Impala, Baracuda, Chevelle, and so on instead.

1968 Dodge Charger - so much more badass

http://1960-1970musclecars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/1968-Dodge-Charger-RT-Hemi-black-color.jpg


Hell yeah, Mala. Mopar! Totally bad ass!

Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 14:38:22
here we go....

Car Wars... (que the imperial death march)

Comment by BobR on 09/23/2013 14:41:02
This is more my style:

http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/06/13/18/41/1967_shelby_cobra-pic-30251.jpeg


Comment by TriSec on 09/23/2013 14:41:23
Did I mention that MY Mustang has a supercharged, V-12 engine of over 1600 cubic inches displacement?

It's a bear on gas, though.



Comment by Scoopster on 09/23/2013 14:42:51
Mornin' all & happy Mondee..

Psh..

http://worldcarslist.com/images/jaguar/jaguar-xke/jaguar-xke-10.jpg


Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 14:44:45
Quote by BobR:
This is more my style:

http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/06/13/18/41/1967_shelby_cobra-pic-30251.jpeg



Nice, but didn't James Dean lose his head in this kind of car or something?

Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 14:45:38
Quote by Raine:
here we go....

Car Wars... (que the imperial death march)





Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 14:54:50
Now wait a minute, I think this bad boy deserves some love.

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/23/2013 14:55:00
Quote by Raine:
here we go....

Car Wars... (que the imperial death march)


A tasteful bit of nerdism. Well done!

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/23/2013 15:01:38
Good morning, bloggers!

BobR, I look forward to the U.S. and other nations transitioning away from fossil fuels to renewable energy sources. When I do land a full time job, I plan to replace my clunker (1998 LeSabre that I had to buy used when my old car had the transmission die.)

Best wishes to Lucky and Kissie.

Now for some news from the Chicago Tribune:

2 held in Cornell Square Park shooting of 13


By Rosemary Regina Sobol Tribune reporter

8:52 a.m. CDT, September 23, 2013

Two men are in custody in connection with last week's shooting in a South Side park that left 13 people injured, including a 3-year-old boy, authorities said.

The men, both 22, were arrested around 7:30 p.m. Sunday in an abandoned building in the 5200 block of South Marshfield Avenue, police said. No charges have been filed.

One of the men has been identified as the shooter in Thursday's attack in Cornell Square Park and the other as "one of the individuals who participated in the shooting," according to a police report.

Police were processing the two men early this morning and planned to bring them to Area Central police headquarters.


Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/23/2013 15:05:06
Bonus story from WGN-TV for TriSec, especially:

Small plane makes emergency landing on Lake Shore Drive.

Comment by TriSec on 09/23/2013 15:11:36
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Bonus story from WGN-TV for TriSec, especially:

Small plane makes emergency landing on Lake Shore Drive.



Headline: "Plane makes emergency landing on LSD"

This would generally be considered a bad idea.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/23/2013 15:12:28
My preferred form of travel:

http://blindscribblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Tardis-in-Space.jpg


Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 15:12:58
Speaking of cars, this is kinda sad... It's the end of the line for the VW bus.

Comment by Will in Chicago on 09/23/2013 15:13:33
Quote by TriSec:
Quote by Will in Chicago:
Bonus story from WGN-TV for TriSec, especially:

Small plane makes emergency landing on Lake Shore Drive.



Headline: "Plane makes emergency landing on LSD"

This would generally be considered a bad idea.


Particularly if it was for the Pixar movie "Planes". "Mom, Dad? Why is the plane flying like that and what is this weird music?"


Comment by trojanrabbit on 09/23/2013 15:18:02
Sending some good vibes your way for Kizzie, Bob & Raine.

According to Mrs. Rabbit, she got some new cat food and he had some, now he's sleeping (his natural state).

Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 15:21:46
Quote by Will in Chicago:
My preferred form of travel:

http://blindscribblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Tardis-in-Space.jpg




That's on my list of Alternative Vehicles

Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 15:23:00
Quote by Raine:
Speaking of cars, this is kinda sad... It's the end of the line for the VW bus.



to be honest, I didn't know they were still making those things

Comment by TriSec on 09/23/2013 15:24:57
Quote by Raine:
Speaking of cars, this is kinda sad... It's the end of the line for the VW bus.



Papa TriSec drove one of these for years - as a "large instrument musician", this was one of the few vehicles a Contrabass would fit in back in the day.

There is a photo of me coming home, in my mother's arms, when I was about 3 days old...in front of the orange and cream bus Pops had at the time.



Comment by Mondobubba on 09/23/2013 15:25:30
Quote by Scoopster:
Mornin' all & happy Mondee..

Psh..

http://worldcarslist.com/images/jaguar/jaguar-xke/jaguar-xke-10.jpg



May I remind you of what happened to Lane on Mad Men with his XKE.

Comment by Mondobubba on 09/23/2013 15:27:34
Quote by Raine:
Now wait a minute, I think this bad boy deserves some love.





Comment by Mondobubba on 09/23/2013 15:31:20
http://media.salon.com/2013/09/CVC_TNY_09_30_13_580px.jpg


This week's New Yorker cover.


Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 15:34:20
Quote by Mondobubba:
http://media.salon.com/2013/09/CVC_TNY_09_30_13_580px.jpg


This week's New Yorker cover.
That is awesome~


Comment by Scoopster on 09/23/2013 15:53:37
Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 15:54:02
OMG -- This is sad and a little gross. I totally concur with the GIF...
http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/giphy-22.gif


Comment by Mondobubba on 09/23/2013 15:55:52
Quote by Raine:
OMG -- This is sad and a little gross. I totally concur with the GIF...
http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/giphy-22.gif



Yoikes!

Comment by wickedpam on 09/23/2013 15:56:08
Quote by Raine:
OMG -- This is sad and a little gross. I totally concur with the GIF...
http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/giphy-22.gif




EEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comment by Scoopster on 09/23/2013 16:00:39
Just scrolled thru some red carpet pics from the Emmys..

Christine Baranski is just so.....

and what in the HELL was Lena Dunham thinking?

Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 16:04:02
Quote by Scoopster:
Just scrolled thru some red carpet pics from the Emmys..

Christine Baranski is just so.....

and what in the HELL was Lena Dunham thinking?
HOly moly.

that looks like a slightly more vibrant version of the wallpaper my great grandmother had in her house from the 30's.


Comment by Raine on 09/23/2013 16:11:57
You all know how I feel about Pizza -

So NO DCist, just NO. Stop trying to redefine pizza. You start out the premise with an inferiority complex -- so you and I both know that your best pizza is still sadly overshadowed by REAL PIZZA towns.

Now that said rant is over... here you go.
Haters be damned, D.C. is a town full of great pizza. Perhaps our options for grab-and-go slices and delivery pizzas aren't the best, but who wants to eat that anyways when the city has an abundance of speciality pies, especially of the Neapolitan variety? Here are ten of the best pizzas in D.C., according to DCist eaters.




Comment by Scoopster on 09/23/2013 16:14:28
Quote by Raine:
You all know how I feel about Pizza -

So NO DCist, just NO. Stop trying to redefine pizza. You start out the premise with an inferiority complex -- so you and I both know that your best pizza is still sadly overshadowed by REAL PIZZA towns.

Now that said rant is over... here you go.
Haters be damned, D.C. is a town full of great pizza. Perhaps our options for grab-and-go slices and delivery pizzas aren't the best, but who wants to eat that anyways when the city has an abundance of speciality pies, especially of the Neapolitan variety? Here are ten of the best pizzas in D.C., according to DCist eaters.

NEW HAVEN STYLE APIZZA.. Yeah that's right.. Frank Pepe would be so proud.